User talk:Nepaheshgar/Archive 3

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A Barnstar!
The Barnstar of Diligence

for your excellent work in Shahnameh and other Iranian articles. You are an "exception" among Wikipedia Users. --Pejman47 20:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

My response to barefact re:Scytho-Iranian theory[edit]


I have reviewed the article and do not believe that much of it is appropriate for WP. Please see WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE. The weight of scholarly consensus is that the Scythians were an Iranian peoples; a tiny minority holds that they were Turkic. This article implies the reverse.
It may be worth a brief mention in the article on Scythians along the lines of "Scholar A, Scholar B, and Scholar C argue based on linguistic evidence that the Scythians were proto-Turkic rather than Iranian; this view is not widely held."
--Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 14:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


Hi, would you please check the historic sections of Mazandaran Provinceand in the case that it contradicts academic sources, rewrite it?--Pejman47 16:54, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Literature template[edit]

Thanks for additions. I think those look OK now, except for citation "5", saying also part of Literature of Iran. It's OK to create this template and add the authors there. But some authors listed in this template are also part of Literature of USSR, Literature of Russia and Literature of Turkey. This would create confusion, if we have to add each one of those, don't you think? Also, I think the article about Parvin Ehtesami needs some improvement and sources, it would be great if you can improve it. Atabek 21:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup[edit]

Oui, monsiuer. But it appears problems are so few, and Mardavich is disappeared. Khorshid 11:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

For your attention[edit]

Dear Ali doostzadeh, you may wish to consult my note on [1]. Kind regards, --BF 11:04, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. I have now again left a message for this deranged individual. You may wish to consult: User:Samadli. Someone should make an effort and lock the entry to the article in question; it is just a wast of time to counter this madman thrice each day. Kind regards, --BF 10:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


Heh, alright. I just wrote in alphabethical order. If i knew that the order of "x or y" was important, then i would already wrote it as "y or x". Logically, it does not matter. Regards. E104421 16:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

  • I wonder why you reverted my edits to Tajik's version. He removed the reference at the beginning section, changed the alphabetical ordering, too, in order to cover up Chineese. The mainstream historians regards Chionites as Red Huns. On the other hand, he added "(red)" within the direct quotations, but this could be added in the notes section. If you quote something directly you do it directly. By the way, you removed the reference to "Red Huns" terminology, too. Regards, E104421 12:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, [2], I really don't know why you so insist putting an unkown literary figure in this template. If you dont agree me, let's try Wikipedia:Third opinion. I strongly disagree the notablity of this person. Thinks.Aparhizi 18:26, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Turkish people[edit]

Please take a look at [3] and write a short comment. Thank you. Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

hmm too much OR.. I noticed they even misquoted the genetic study and left out the crucial part. For example:high resolution SNP analysis provides evidence of a detectable yet weak signal (<9%) of recent paternal gene flow from Central Asia" (which means at most 9% have real central asian (Turkic) roots). Also this statement:The major components (haplogroups E3b, G, J, I, L, N, K2, and R1; 94.1%)

are shared with European and neighboring Near Eastern populations and contrast with only a minor share of haplogroups related to Central Asian (C, Q and O; 3.4%), Indian (H, R2; 1.5%) and African (A, E3*, E3a; 1%).but the article is outside of my interest. This was also omitted from the same study. The stuff about Amazons (I didn't even bother with the source) seems fantatic. I would put a dispute tag sign and OR sign... but I can't take care of every article that has lots of distortion/nonsense in it.. --alidoostzadeh 02:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Divar for later[edit]

كشف بقاياى سومين ديوار بزرگ تاريخى جهان در درياي مازندران به گزارش واحد مركزي خبر بقاياي سومين ديوار بزرگ تاريخي جهان در آب‌هاي درياي مازندران كشف شد. ديوار دفاعي گرگان پس از ديوار چين و ليمس آلمان، طويل‌ترين ديوار تاريخي جهان است. سرپرست هيأت باستان شناسي حاضر در منطقه در مصاحبه با خبرنگار واحد مركزي خبر گفت: در كاوش اخير به كمك جولين ونس رزنبرگ (غواص باستان شناس انگليسي) علاوه بر سازه معماري اين ديوار، قطعاتي از سفال‌ها و آجرهاي تاريخي نيز كشف شده - كه ابعاد آن حدود 150 در 136 متر مربع است - قلعه باستاني، اسكله و يا لنگرگاهي باشد كه در دوره ساسانيان از آن استفاده مي‌شد. سرپرست هيأت باستان شناسي حاضر در منطقه گفت: آجرهاي كشف شده قرمز رنگ و به ابعاد 37 در 37 در 10 سانتي متر است كه اطراف آن به مرور از جلبك پوشيده شده است. ديوار دفاعي گرگان از كرانه‌هاي درياي مازندران در غرب استان گلستان تا ارتفاعات بيلي كوه در پارك ملي گلستان به طول 200 كيلومتر و عرض 2 تا 10 متر در زمان ساسانيان به منظور جلوگيري از هجوم اقوام هپتال ساخته شده است. ديوار بزرگ گرگان به عنوان شاهكار ارزشمندي از ايران باستان در سال 1378 به شماره 2345 در فهرست آثار ملي كشور به ثبت رسيده است (روزنامه اطلاعات، 20/6/1386، ص 9). Translation: The World's third largest wall (the first being that of China and the second in Germany) was found in Northern Iran. This wall was probably created to keep the Hephtalites away.. hopefully we will learn more about this important discovery soon. --alidoostzadeh 03:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


Ali, I posted response on AE, also [[4] the cartoon article was created by Hajji Piruz not by someone else to "attack him". Also, my edit here [5] was a compromise adding the historical title Persia, while removing controversial link to Iranian peoples. So your restoration of edit "to the way it was" [6] was not quite complete. Finally, I doubt anyone assuming that Azeri Turks or Uzbeks are Iranian peoples can be ever neutral on the subjects related to Iran or Azerbaijan. Please, don't take my opinion as personal, I have a big respect towards you in trying to be balanced and fair. But neither of us can be neutral. Thanks. Atabek 16:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Ahwaz territory[edit]

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Ahwaz territory. There are question about the truthfulness of the article and whether such a territory exists. Since you contributed to the Politics of Khūzestān Province article, I am hoping that you would consider participating in the Ahwaz territory deletion review to shed some light on whether the Ahwaz territory in fact exists. -- Jreferee t/c 18:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Allameh Tabatabaei's poem[edit]

Salam, I know it's good poem but it's not appropriate for wikipedia. You can translate it and move it to Wikiquote. Thanks--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 18:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


Hello and thank you very much for your comments. Me too hope you enjoy editing here! I would ask you if I had any questions. bye for now Tahmasp 06:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)tahmasp


Hi Ali Doostzadeh. I see that you are an expert on Middle Eastern History. I had a question about etymology of the word Agha. There is already a link on the article which does not seem to be exact as the word Agha actually sound Mongolian rather than Turkish. (Despite the fact that Turkic and Mongolian are closely related languages/dialects). Sharishirin 11:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the help. Sharishirin 13:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


Hello, I hope you're doing well. Please keep an eye on some articles, such as Timur, Timurid dynasty, or Great Seljuq Empire. The IP is a known vandal from the German Wikipedia who has a long history of vandalism and blocks. He is a typical Pan-Turkist who does not accept scholastic sources (that's why he has deleted the reference to the Encyclopaedia of Islam). Please keep an eye on those articles and his edits. Thanks. -- Behnam (talk) 01:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Iran military task force[edit]

Salam, What's your idea about making a task force for Iran military task force. Please add your idea here. Thanks--Seyyed(t-c) 05:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Wall Street Journal[edit]

I've responded to your edits of Nov. 8 at The Wall Street Journal. I read the same article you did and reached a different conclusion. I'm interested in hearing what others have to say. Cheers! ``` W i k i W i s t a h ``` 04:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Nur Ali Elahi[edit]

The move you did on the Nur Ali Elahi page was very disruptive, against Wikipedia policy and vandalism. Please read the talk page and you will understand. There are many Wikipedia users and Administrators discussing the name. The majority have agreed on keeping his real name "Nur Ali Elahi", but two Administrators have said you can't have both names. By the way his name was Nur Ali Elahi, not ostad (Master).--Octavian history (talk) 23:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

That is a title, so it is fine in paranthesis. I thought to put an end to such triviality after seeing it on Iranian discussion board in Wikipedia. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 00:54, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
I completely understand that your intention may have been very good, but your action was extremely disruptive and wrong when the issue is being discussed and under RfC supervision. About the other name, I completely agree with you that the spelling of Sh, instead of Ch sounds better, BUT, his name is Chahrokh Elahi. He is a very well established doctor and musician. That is how he spells his name, just google it and you will see dozens of websites, including Barnes & Noble. You and I can't change the spelling of a persons name just because we don't like it. I want to thank you for adding the farsi alphabet to his name, that was great! Whenever you get a chance, maybe you can do the same with his father Hajj Nematollah? Thank you.--Octavian history (talk) 13:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for adding the farsi text, looks better.--Octavian history (talk) 14:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


Hey dude, I don't think I'm using that email account anymore. email me at "". -Amir85 (talk) 06:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Persian and فارسی[edit]

Salam. Even though if it be a direct quote, cause the use of more accurate Persian doesn't differ in the meaning of the sentence at all, Don't you think the use of it instead, is better even in this case? User:Tahmasp 1:54 PM Wednesday (GMT)

Yes. I understand. You are right. Tahmasp (talk) 5:35 PM Thursday 12 December 2007 (UTC)


If you disagree with the ordering, change that part but do not revert, since you're removing my other edits. I'm editing with all my good faith but you're always doing the same. You're trying to find a single difference that you can criticise and use this as a reason for your revert. I'm always keeping your edits and sources but you're just reverting. E104421 (talk) 18:53, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

A problem in Avicenna's article[edit]

Salam, Haletun chetore?

There's a problem in the last edition of "Jagged 85" in Avicenna's article[7]. I put a comment in the talk page and quoted a philosophical discussion in Persian. It's difficult for me to translate it. Can you please help us with it. Of course we don't need a translation but somebody should explain the issue in English.--Seyyed(t-c) 06:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried to add another POV [8].--Seyyed(t-c) —Preceding comment was added at 06:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination-of Persianate society[edit]

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An editor has nominated Persianate society, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

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Hi Ali, do you have any comments about Parishan's ridiculous comparaison between Azeri and Persian, claiming that there is as much reason to add Azeri than Persian to the Names of Jerusalem article. The discussion can be found hereVartanM (talk) 21:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Vartan. Thanks for asking. I see there is politics involved in that discussion but I will just concentrate on the history portion. Hopefully once there is peace in the Caucus, I can enter more directly into such discussions but for now let me just concentrate on the history section.

Ali Akbar Dehkoda in his famous dictionary mentions a Persian term “Qebleye-i-Pishinian” which is different than the Arabic Bayt-ul-Moqqadas. Of course the word Qebleh is an Arabic loanword but Persianized. Anyhow according to Dehkhoda, Qebleyeh-i-Pishinian is used in the Sharaf-Nama which I persume he means the Sharaf-Nama of the Persian poet Nizami Ganjavi (since I do not think he was referencing the Sharafnama of Sharif Khan Bitlisi which is a book about the origin of Kurds written I believe in the 15th/16th century). Also Bayt-ol-Muqqadas is used in the Safarnameh of the Persian poet Nasir Khusraw. Nizami Ganjavi mentions Bayt-ul-Moqqadass which is Arabic loan word: نظامی گنجوی: چو از قدسیان این حکایت شنید عنان سوی بیت المقدس کشید Interestingly the Safar Nama of Nasir Khusraw mentions Armenians several time. One is about the city of Ikhlat in modern Turkey and he says the people speak Arabic, Persian and Armenian. By Persian, I assume he means a form of Daylamite, Zaza or Kurdish and probably not Khorasani Persian. But he also I believe mentions the Armenian quarters of Jerusalem. Anyhow, the term has been in Persian at least for a thousand year or so. Nevertheless Bayt -ol-Moqqaddas is Arabic. So we can mention Bayt-ol-Moqqadas entered through Arabic in Persian, Urdu, Hindi Bengali, Gujari, Azeri, Punjabi, Pashtu, Kurdish. But the native Persian word "Qebleyeh Pishiniyaan" is a Persian innovation and Pishiniyaan (the past ones) here is in reference to the fact that the Qibla (prayer direction) of Muslims was changed from Jerusalem to Mecca based on a decree that is in the holy Qur'an. I don't think we can find such an example in other Islamic languages but I might be wrong. So with this regard Azeri, Urdu, Hindi are probably slightly different since I do not believe in their classical literature, they have another term. Where-as Persian has another term, but the Arabic borrowed term is in the current document. Perhaps a solution would be to mention the Arabic term has entered Persian, Azeri, Kurdish, Hindi, Turkish, Urdu and etc. But now those terms are native to the language just like the word computer is not really English but has its root in Latin or French, but nevertheless it has entered most languages of the world. I might add the Persian term for it another time. Infact now that I look at the article, virtually all the names except the several Hebrew/Arabic versions are from Hebrew/Arabic. I think the solution is simply leave both names since there are also Azeri-Turkish (I think this is a more clear name for the language rather than Azari Old Azari language]) Islamic documents and they have used Qods. Parishan might have not known there was a classical Persian innovation for the term (Qebleye-Pishinian) but at the same time, if Qods has been used in Azeri-Turkish for two to five hundred years, then it is native word. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 21:50, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits[edit]

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Image copyright problem with Image:Biruniatharmardomkhawarzm.pdf[edit]

Image Copyright problem

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map issue[edit]

Dear Ali doostzadeh

when you are telling you don’t care. It is not good statement for a postdoc and researcher like you. Don’t think people in Europe and America accepts ideas based on caring or not caring. If you show them evidences, they accept. You know that Ancient Iranian Azerbaijan is where based on historical maps. Suppose you don’t accept Encyclopedia Iranica, Britannica, Joshua,, The Encyclopedia Americana, Wikipedia articles about Azerbaijan (Iran), West Azarbaijan Province of Iran, cities with majority azeris, Urmia, khoy, Naghadeh, Salmas and Chaldoran ((Siahcheshmeh), please let Wikipedia users know you accept which references. If you accept Wikipedia which you are acting as an editor for that, look your favorite map and see why it is wrong and misleading. If you agree that it is misleading, don’t restore it to the Azerbaijani Language article. You told me that I attribute my own map to an Encyclopedia it is not the right thing to do. It means that you can add misleading map, but it cannot reflect facts mentioned in historical maps and Wikipedia articles, Iranica, Britannica, Joshua,, The Encyclopedia Americana into a revised mp. If you think that Azeri people and me will allow Kurdish lovers like you, Ali doostzadeh and [[User:Sharishirin| Sharishirin] I should inform you that never. I myself will continue debating with you and your close friend Ali doostzadeh to overcome your resistance to not provide acceptable historical evidences which agree with Wikipedia articles, , Iranica, Britannica, Joshua,, The Encyclopedia Americana, etc. why you force wrong map which includes West Azarbaijan Province of Iran, cities with majority azeris, Urmia, khoy, Naghadeh, Salmas and Chaldoran ((Siahcheshmeh) in Kurdistan. I provided lots of historical and current facts that your map is wrong. I and other Azeris wait to see your evidence to reject our facts. User Iranli74: Iranli74, 9:40, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. But as you know, Iranica, Britannica..none of them mention the major component of the city. I do not think labels help. Just note though, there are academic maps like this [9]. An alternative map should also be academic. My solution is to simply avoid the issue and remove such maps or show the area with dash (mixed primarily Azeri/Kurdish). This way there won't be an issue. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 08:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Dear Ali doostzadeh

Thank you for your answer. I am not telling there is no any kurd in West Azarbaijan Province of Iran. Iranica, Britannica, Wikipedia, etc. tells arezis are majority and kurds are minority in cities Urmia, khoy, Naghadeh, Salmas and Chaldoran ((Siahcheshmeh), Miandoab,etc. When you refer the map 1, why not map , iran_peoples? So, you came to the point that parishan added map is wrong? Why you don’t ask Alex Bakharev to remove misleading map from article Azerbaijani language article? To be honest Azeries will never allow Wikipedia to keep that wrong map in its articles which contradicts with its articles about Urmia, khoy, Naghadeh, Salmas and Chaldoran ((Siahcheshmeh), Miandoab, etc. They want Wikipedia administrators/editors to be responsible to issues/maps published in its web-page. They will defend themselves in virtual and real worlds and never allow kurds to claim non-sense claims which has no historical roots. Iranian Azeris which are at least 24% of Iran population will never allow 7% kurds to take micro-piece of their land. They have powerful economical and army bases in Iran while kurds have very small milishias. Azeris want to leave in peace and they don’t want to use their power. They are cool people. They don’t have critical problems with kurds except these kinds of claims coming from Kurdish nationalist living outside of Iran. We know our historical borders and no need to fight each other. We all belong to Iran. Good luck

User Iranli74: Iranli74, 2:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I got pre-WWI British maps which show ethnographic situation of the area, and actually they show greatest part (more than 80%) of the west azerbaijan province as Kurdish inhabited the rest being inhabited equaly by Christians and turks, which if required alongside other historic maps will add to Wikipedia. But unfortunately this user seem to be not worth discussing since he just repeats himself, with no citiations, and insults others. A biased user can accept no logics. Sharishirin (talk) 12:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Dear Sharishirin:

Why you can get a reference which has no internet link to that? show us, don't claim without showing us! it is useless. Again I have to help you how you can contribute in writing/editing an article. When you are stating a point, you should be able to defend your statement by providing an acceptable reference and document. I listed readers bunch of reference and people can go an read them if they are interested. Again you are missing point when I am telling highland of west Azerbaijan is a sparse/army area. It doesn’t mean people from Kurdish villages go to Salmas, Khoy, etc. They can go anywere in Azerbaijan, Sanandaj, Iraq, etc. If you read Wikipedia article about West Azarbaijan Province of Iran, you will see that most cities have majority of Azeris and minority Kurds. Nobody ignore them. Some cities such as Mahabad have majority kurds. But it is inside historical Azerbaijan from the past till now. You may be not happy about that, but it is the fact. One more point don’t mislead us most part of West Azarbaijan Province of Iran is not highland and it have lots of cities. If you read for instance Wikipedia article about West Azarbaijan Province of Iran, take population of cities and find which ethnic is majority by doing little mathematics you will conclude Azeris are majority. Wikipedia article about West Azarbaijan Province of Iran includes statistics of each city and information about majority ethnic of each city. Americana doesn’t say Lake urmia is inside what you call Kurdistan. I am very careful what I am stating to avoid any contradiction. Come back and read my answer again. One friendly advice, don’t state something without any documented reference and provide your references for reader by giving hyperlink.

User Iranli74: Iranli74, 2:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Guys thanks for the discussion on the talkpage. Also Iranli74 is using a more civil language which is welcoming. But the last two or three sentences seems like a threat. So we need to stop that or else they can be reported. Again civil language is a necessity in Wikipedia, because uncivil language will get you banned. So I thank the portions of Iranli74's sentences that were civi. Note "Kurdish lover", "Persian Chauvinists" etc. or labeling people by their ethnicity is not part of Wikipedia and can easily get you banned after one or two times. Also a Wikipedia article can not be used a reference for argument. I have friends from the area and I have went to different forums that discuss the issue. My research might differ with Iranli74s. My suggestion is simply to show the area of West Azerbaijan as a dashed region. As you can tell from the archives of West Azerbaijan province article, the issue has come up a million of times. And it is unsolvable since there has not been a census (thank God) based on background. So we have wide ranging estimates showing Azeris from 14% to 30%. or Baluch from 1% to 4%. etc. These things will not help our country and we are already way behind the caravan of civilization. For me the area is Iran. Specially in a city of Urmia which has always been a peaceful symbol of co-existence between Kurds, Azeris, Armenians, Assyrians and other immigrants (mainly Shomali/Central Iran). So that is the positive image we should show to Westerners. How in a city like Urmia, Azeris, Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians and other immigrants are living peacefully together where-as just up north to the border, or west in Turkey, we have ethnic animosity. This is an important point. Just look at the neighboring countries where this is not the case. So this really shows the greatness of our common culture. So if there is a demographic map, lets just show it as dashed. I am not going to get involved more in this discussion, but ultimately if this sort of thing ends in edit wars, r.v.'s and etc., it will not go anywhere except higher powers in Wikipedia will say show it as dashed. So before it goes there, I think showing it as dashed is the best solution. Also we are not allowed to make maps in Wikipedia. But perhaps if Iranli74 and Sharishirin both agree, then one can make a map showing the region as dashed and this will hopefully solve the problem. Other than that I have no further comments.--alidoostzadeh (talk) 00:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear interested users: : Ali doostzadeh suggested following statment:

if there is a demographic map, lets just show it as dashed. I am not going to get involved more in this discussion, but :ultimately if this sort of thing ends in edit wars, r.v.'s and etc., it will not go anywhere except higher powers in :Wikipedia will say show it as dashed. So before it goes there, I think showing it as dashed is the best solution. Also we :are not allowed to make maps in Wikipedia. one can make a map showing the region as dashed and this will hopefully solve :the problem. Other than that I have no further comments.--alidoostzadeh (talk) 00:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Ali doostzadeh for your suggestion. I agree with him that demographic maps always should not have any contrary with wikipedia articles. For instance map Azerilanguage, critically contradicts with wikipedia article about West Azarbaijan Province of Iran which shows all cities are linguistically mixed of Azeris, kurds, Assyrians, except Miandoab (only Azeris) and south-west of the province (only kurds). I will edit map Iran_Azeri_people and will post as an image to the Wikipedia and can be referred to articles Azeri language, Azeris, Iranian Azerbaijan, etc. I wish living peaceful for all Iranian and doesn’t matter they are Persian, Azeri, Gilaki and Mazandarani , Kurd, Arab, Lur, Baloch, Turkmen, Assyrian, Armeniran, etc. They all are Iranian and live in great Iran with long history of living its people in peace.

User Iranli74: Iranli74, 10:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you and I completely share your sentiments. I will look forward to your new map (any uncertain area just show as a mixed area). I totally agree with your last statement also. We should remember it is the job of say BBC and some organizations ( even britannica, ethnologue (connected to and etc.), some "intellectuals" that go alone, to stir the ethnic politics in Iran. So you will find one site that has the area as 100% this and another that has it as 100% that. And their goal (some organizations not normal people) is simple. To make enemies out of people who co-exist peacefully, intermarry and have a common history and live side by side. Simply, these organizations want to make bunch of small non-historical and weak countries like Kuwait, Qatar, Azerbaijan/Armenia/Georgia SSR, UAE, Oman, Jordan etc. and then own them. But Iranians are brothers with common history and many commonalities, no matter if they are Lur, Azeri, Kurd, Talysh, Assyrian, Armenian, Turkmen, Baluch,Esfahani, Qazvini, Khorasani, Yazdi, Qashqai, Shomali, Jonubi and etc and even if there are minor problems (no country is perfect even Canada/Belgium/Spain have secessionist movements), they have lived together and will fix their problems without outside interference. As Shahryar said: "Ekhtelaaf lahjeh, Melliyyat Nazaayyad Bahr-i- Kas/Mellati baa Yek Zabaan, Kamtar beh yaad Aarad zamaan". Thanks. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 05:48, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear interested users and Ali doostzadeh:

First of all thanks to mention that non-Iranian can not solve Iranian internal problems. Educated Iranian should not help them at all. They want create these types of problems to discharge Iranian energy. As I promised, I edited map Iran_Azeri_people to map Iran_Azeripeoples_2008 and is ready to be located at Azeri-related articles such as articles Azeri language, Azeris, Iranian Azerbaijan, etc. It needs to be asked Alex Bakharev to exchange this map Map Azeris-Caucasus with Problematical map Azerilanguage in article Azerilanguage using legend Maps showing locations of Azerbaijanis in (a) Azerbaijan country; (b) Iran, Iraq and Turkey countries. I hope that it will convince most people and will not be reverted by other users. Any not-biased and neutral comment is welcome.

User Iranli74: Iranli74, 12:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again. I think though you should work out the details with Sharishirin. And if there is any confusion about any area, just show it as dashed. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 12:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

As you said 'if there is a demographic map, lets just show it as dashed. ultimately if this sort of thing ends in edit wars, r.v.'s and etc., it will not go anywhere except higher powers in Wikipedia will say show it as dashed. So before it goes there, I think showing it as dashed is the best solution’.

Sharishirin is not iranian and is not fimiliar with administrative divisions of Iran. The reason is: Sharishirin created a map which is much worse and wrong than what Parishan created and added and nobody will accept that. It measn that he wants to continue editing war by atacking even east Azerbaijan which has no kurdish speaker. He only considered water of Lake Urmia (north part) as dashed area and a pert of east Azerbaijan. It means that their kurdistan wants to born another child and grow up till caspian. I had one suggestion for Sharishirin, try to add his map in Kurdish-related articles which mostly spam by kurds. More people can support him,but be sure even kurds will note vote his map, because Iranian knows that in East Azarbaijan province of Iran, there is no any kurd.He don’t know enough about iran administrative divisions. He added a part of Lake Urmia as mixed populated area. His map suffer from geographical point of view. That’s way even kurds will not support his fake map.

I don’t need to discuss any more with him which is useless and prefer to discuss with other users about azeri-related articles when articles are unlocked. I tried to help to stop editing war but as he is not Iranian or not belong to the Azerbaijan area, dont want to stop editing war about iranian related issues. Now, it depends to higher powers in Wikipedia to think about this problem. there is two ways. one is totally removing map Azerilanguage.png. another way is dashing whole West Azerbaijan Province without any exception such as south-west (only kurdish) and south-east as well as north-est (only Azeris) as you suggested. It depends to you, Alex Bakharev and higher powers in Wikipedia

User Iranli74: Iranli74, 20:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Salam. My suggestion was to simply show W. Azerbaijan except Mahabad and Miandoab as dashed. This way the problem won't appear again at least in Wikipedia. If both of you guys agree that would be great. You have to remember there are various opinions and it won't probably be sorted out in Wikipedia. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 21:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


I will be happy to write why the French government and many others have accused them of being a dangerous cult, but it will take too long to do in right now. I have studied the group for over 20 years and have a large body of information about them. Again, I would like to point out that there is an enormous difference between the honorable Chief Justice Nur Ali Elahi, the man who passed away in 1974, and the dangerous and crazy cult of “Ostad Elahi foundation” led by his son Barham Elahi. I am amazed that the American media has not picked up on there activities yet. Best--Octavian history (talk) 03:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Please help with your skill[edit]

Please visit the Sima Mafiha page and help to extend the article. I found little info about her. I am afraid that she could be forgotten at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faikpro (talkcontribs) 01:32, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


I agree that it should just be pious Muslim - which is what the article had, but another user added the new (mis)information. Therefore I will make the change. Scythian1 (talk) 16:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


I am Sohrab by the way, thank you for helping me out, I am just new here in wikipedia. can you help me out for a project of mine, translating middle eastern food and Indian food names to their Persian, Arabian and Indian derivatives. thank you, do you have a program that can write with the arabic-persian style.

--ParthianPrince (talk) 10:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


Ali can you please take a look at Osroene and give us your feedback. Thanks VartanM (talk) 03:54, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, although not an expert on the topic, I think the arguments in the page are political. So let me just share my opinion here, rather than engange myself into a discussion that is not of immediate interest. Since the issue is not about history, but has to do with the NK war! or Kurdish/Assyrian political conflicts!, it is not an entry I want to deal with beyond my own userpage and just once.
Iranica is written by the experts in their respective field. [10]. J.B. Segal was probably chosen due to his expertise on this issue. The first issue of contention seems to be about the ethnic identity of the kingdom. J.B. Segal calls them Arabs speaking Aramaic. But it seems that issue is died out (it was an issue between nationalist Kurdish users and two Assyrians users. Given that both people inhabited the same territory, they both lay claim on the same issue and if you browse around the internet, unfortunately there are people trying to provoke one group against another).  ::Anyhow, that issue is dormant. The other issue is also taken care of by Iranica: "The fame of Edessa in history rests, however, mainly on its claim to have been the first kingdom to adopt Christianity as its official religion. According to the legend current for centuries throughout the civilized world, Abgar Ukkama wrote to Jesus, inviting him to visit him at Edessa to heal him from sickness. In return he received the blessing of Jesus and subsequently was converted by the evangelist Addai. There is, however, no factual evidence for Christianity at Edessa before the reign of Abgar the Great, 150 years later. Scholars are generally agreed that the legend has confused the two Abgars. It cannot be proved that Abgar the Great adopted Christianity; but his friend Bardaisáan was a heterodox Christian, and there was a church at Edessa in 201. It is testimony to the personality of Abgar the Great that he is credited by tradition with a leading role in the evangelization of Edessa.". Looks like the book brought by someone else[11], says the same thing as Iranica: "There is therefore no justification for postulating, on the basis of the Abgar legend, a Christian King Abgar, whether Abgar V or Abgar VIII the Great (177-212)..". That book from its typesetting and referencing appears very scholarly. Overall though, this was a Roman/Parthian vassal, so even if assuming one ruler might have adopted Christianity (which both of these sources do not show), it would be a short reign under a more powerful Roman/Parthian lord. There are several things I would search with google books. Because in this day and age, one might find their POV in google book. The first thing is what are the qualifications of the author. For example the Segal guy who wrote Iranica also a has a book on google [12]. The guy seems to be a Full Professor and expert. The second issue is that a much later academic book is of course superior to a outdated book. For example there could be outdated religious books where the legend was not critically scrutinized. So, someone did point out that we can't take any author. It is important to have authors who are university Professors and expert at the matter of hand. IA mathematician will be better than a lay person when discussing mathematics. So it is important, if there is a conflict of opinion, to see what university Professors who specialized on the topic at hand have to say. The legend might be printed in some books that are theological (popular books written for lay person) in nature rather than historical. Just like for example, the arc of Noah is thought to students and religious people, but it would be impossible from a critical history perspective to shed any light on this isue. Overall, if the issue persists on the talkpage, I would use RFC. As I was saying to another user recently (rather unfriendly which had a mirror effect on me!), I am proud to see Ali Dai to be the head coach of Irans national team, and Andranik Teymourian to be the best or one of the best players on the team. Andranik praised Dai on the day one Dai got the job. So I hope to see peace achieved in the Caucus as soon as possible, since the instability there is also bad for the whole region. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 05:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Ali. It would be interesting to see Armenia and Iran play together. Maybe a friendly match VartanM (talk) 06:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Tajikistan merge[edit]

I've started a discussion here about merging WikiProject Tajikistan with WikiProject Central Asia. If you wish, please join the discussion. Otebig (talk) 06:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

artist renditions of persian historical figures[edit]

salam ali jhan, Ive spoken with a few artist, namely Mazoud, Aram from deviantart and khosru to name a few, they've given me permission to post their works about Persian historical characters and artist renditions of certain events, this might help create more buzz and generate more feedback concerning our history plus it might make our articles concerning persian history more complete. I am just wondering if it would be all right to do so? --ParthianPrince (talk) 17:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

ali jhan, I would like to discuss a few ideas with you, do you have a yahoo messenger? mercy --ParthianPrince (talk) 17:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


There are tons of stuff on them. They are actually among the better known of the minor dynasties. The best research on them is done by Ahmad Kasravi in his "Shahriaran e Goman". --Khodadad (talk) 21:09, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


Hi Ali, this is how the book describes him:
Elyas ebn Yusuf Nezami is considered to be one of the very greatest of Persian poets and his five narrative poems (his "Khamseh" or "Quintet") are by general consent the finest narrative poems of the Persian literary tradition after the Shahnameh of Ferdowsi. .... His mother was an Iranian Kurd and it is possible that his father had the same ethnic origin, though he is claimed also by Turkish Azerbaijanis as being of their stock... Sharishirin (talk) 19:38, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

You might want to calm down[edit]

Accusing people of "makiing stuff up" is a fairly serious charge here in Wikipedia, and is also considered uncivil and a personal attack. As you were not met with similar accusations, you might want to reconsider your comments in that regard. I will ask once. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 13:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

No hard feelings really, but simply because I didn't supply the citations in question doesn't mean for a moment that I don't have them. Perhaps Sia's combative edits left you with the impression I did not. I am simply sidestepping being goaded into incivility, and awaiting the resumption of the mediation before continuing. By supplying the citations for the earlier references to Arabian Gulf that precede Nasser's pan-Arabism in the mediation, they are a part of the official mediation record, and folk who attack them out of the 'I don't like it' viewpoint can be acted upon when the resistance to change rises to the level of AN/I or ArbCom complaint.
Have you considered the possibility that much of the historical usage of the Arabian Gulf term has been stricken from many of the records (or is simply unavailable to the common man) by political machinations? Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but the Iranian revolutionary government does have a relatively extensive history when it comes to re-interpreting the historical events. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 21:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't the issue is personal. Sia has his opinion, I have mine and you have yours. What is important is to bring actual sources for your POV. The issue can continue on the relevant talk page, so I'll stop here. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 00:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
It isn't my POV, Ali. It's just fact. I think the issue should be dealt with on the mediation page. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 01:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

On Award[edit]

Dear Ali Doostzadeh, thank you for so kindly awarding me with "The Original Barnstar"; it is truly very kind of you to do so. Happy Nawruz! and my very best wishes for the New Year. With kind regards, --BF 12:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


Thanks a lot for the barnstar! norouz shoma niz pirooz bashad, Shad bashid. --Pejman47 (talk) 20:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Also my thanks.I think if we were to give you such stars there wouldn't be enough stars in the sky to give all of them to you ! Happy Nooroz! --Alborz Fallah (talk) 08:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Regarding my statement and partial explanation[edit]

A certain who is obssessed with my edits (and has taken them very pesonally) had spammed 15 user pages of Georgian/Armenian users with regards to this comment I made three montsh ago: [[13]]. Let me just state that Georgia and Armenia are historic nations and both pre-date even the era of Christ. Infact Armenians are mentioned in the Behistun inscription of Darius and Iberians are also a very old nation. My point (which I did not make clearly) is that the Caucus has sometimes and unfortunately been used by bigger powers (even Iranian empire at some era although modern Iranians have no ambitions and wish the best for these two countries) and now sometimes there could be bigger powers who want to cause certain discord in Iran. It might sound like paranoia but there is more than enough articles with this regard[14]. The background was that two users from my country where arguing about different ethnic maps of a certain province in Iran and I told them that Iranians wether Kurds, Azeris, Armenians, Assyrians and etc. are brothers and some of these maps might have ill-intention and they should just blur it with mixed/unknown. My point with regards to non-historic nations was meant for Oman, Kuwait and other countries that were made within the last 100 years (and no disrespect to the citizens of these countries but that is a fact). Hope that clarifies it. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 17:27, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

March 2008[edit]

Information.svg Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thank you. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 21:27, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

With regards to an author that has made non-academic assumptions[edit]

Thanks. I got your link and I note it is from the same author which I have heard of before. I will look at in more detail, but the author has a book review here which is enough for me to reject. He says: [[15]]

Note he does not have a Ph.D. or Masters even and so I cannot really take him as an academic who is knowledgeable. Case in point, note what he claims:

"Even the Iranian they speak today has very old roots (such as full ergativity) and is unique in having links with Basque. Basque is a living pre-Indo-European language, and the oldest Kurdish could therefore be as old as Basque, dating back to 2,500 years before the Christian era.

Besides the claim being ludicrous (Kurdish connected to Basque), not all Kurdish dialects of full or split ergativity. Actually Persian dialects of Central Iran and Fars have ergativity and is a common phenomenon in Indo-Iranian as well (for example a good portion of Indo-Aryan). Kurdish has no relationship with Basque. Avestan was an accusative language. Pahlavi (and Midlde Iranian in general) was split-ergative, like modern Kurdish. Also the following indo-iranian lanugages like modern Hindi, Pubjabi, Pashtu, Sindhi all show ergativity and this fact has do to with indo-iranian loss of the imperfect, perfect and aorist tenses.

" Their ancestors thus co-invented modern agriculture around 10,000 years before the Christian era and helped to develop and disseminate Indo-European languages. "

I am not too convinced of this. It is hard to talk about an ethnic group from 10,000 years ago. Eventually all humans go back to a single man and woman, but 10,000 years ago there was no ethnic group. Also in one point the author says Kurdish was originally a pre-Indo European language, but now he claims they developed and disseminated the Indo-European languages.

“According to recent genetic studies, Kurds are very closely related to Jews. "

That is incorrect too, since Jews are the most diverse genetic group (Khazars, Shepardic and etc.). There are Ethiopian Jews, Near eastern Jews, even Chinese Jews and European Jews. already provided documents that show Kurds are close to other Iranians genetically [[16]]. Classically, they are classified as part of the Irano-Afghan phenotype. Anyhow genetics reflects the history many millennia. What I note though is that modern Iranians at least in physical apperance resemble ancient Iranians from Persepolis (see my friends blog here: for some pictures).

Anyhow, I don’t think the author who lacks a Ph.D. is a professional linguist. But thanks for the document. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 20:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

your genetic-link doesnt show a iranian background.its to rough an unexactly and included non-iranians.the non-iranian origin of kurds is supported by many other works like the one who i send to you.ergativity is not the only non-iranian characteristic.and kurds must have closer relation to persians as you can must be the same like kasaks and uzbeks or kirgizes and turkmens because they lived side by side since a very long fact kurdish must been closer to persian in every way but it isnt.--Altai Khan (talk) 21:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

As per genetics, I think the Oxford link is the most exact and proves my point. Or here is one about Azeris and Kurds [[17]] (Article says:present-day Kurds and Azeris of Iran seem to belong to a common genetic pool). Here is one that shows Azeris of Iran and Persians are very close [[18]]. And then there was another one between Azeris and Armenians of the Caucus: [[19]]. Specially, there might be even a lot of gene diversity in a large population and classifying it might be much harder. I think one needs to read all these articles before making a strong assumption. But the linguistic stuff was weak. Although I was definitely not convinced by that author who lacks serious academic qualification ;) Specially the unacademic relationship of Kurdish and Basque basically gave it away. Or the fact that many Persian dialects have split-ergativity besides many Indic languages. Anyhow thanks for the article. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 21:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC) dont show genetics between persians and kurds.otherwise it shows that kurds are closer to azeris and azeris are close to iranian background again.thats not the right talk only about ergativity.thats not the only more.your kind of explain is seems you have dont understand the linguistic chapter because you talk only about ergativity.(kurdish have full ergativity and not part).you give weight to the authors academical ranking.thats also the wrong show the non-iranian background of kurds it doenst need a oxford title.but if this is so important for you i can point to the scientist N.J. Marr.he means that kurdish was a caucasian language.and to make kurds as iranians by showing basqes as indogermans is also wrong.kurds must be iranian and kurdish must be related to persian like italian and spanish.but it is not so.kurds are not iranians.--Altai Khan (talk) 18:24, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

No dude, Kurdish has split ergativity. [20] and some Kurdish dialects do not have it at all. It even exits in Sanskrit and Indo-Aryan (far away from Caucasian languages): [21]. As per N.J. Marr, his theories of Yapethic languages are very much disregarded/rejected and not part of main stream science. I would check Mackenzie [22]. Also I showed you one genetics Azeris are close to Persians and another Azeris are close to Kurds. Overall it is easy to cherry pick which genetic study one wants, but we will have to wait for more coherence. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 18:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, i have a question for you.the article of Zahed Gilani accept that he comes from Sanjan in Turkmenistan.Why everybody dont said something about that.why nobody dont mean that sanjan and Sanjar is the could it be that sheikh safis name Sanjan was under compulsion changed to Sanjar and Zahed Gilanis name which is the same name (Sanjan) was not??? because it has a big weight source who show that.Can you explain me that please?--Altai Khan (talk) 19:35, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, That is a good point. But that article is not sourced unfortunately. So I am not sure. As I said there are multitude of places with such a name Sanjan, even in India and Baluchistan. So it could have been any Sanjan. But what makes it Sanjan in Kurdistan in my opinion is Al-Kurdi Sanjani and also Piruz being called of Kurdish origin in Safwat as-Safa. As well Shafi'ism was almost non-existent in Khorasan but was the main religion in Kurdistan. Anyhow this is from 800+ years ago, so no one will no for sure. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 20:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Happy new year![edit]

Hey Ali!! Thanks a lot for the barnstar ;-) . Sale khoob va shadi ro barat arezoo mikonam. ghorbanat Sangak Talk 19:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:PersepolistwoPersianSoldiers.jpg[edit]

Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:PersepolistwoPersianSoldiers.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 19:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC) --alidoostzadeh (talk) 20:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

On Takam-Chi (film)[edit]

Dear Ali Doostzadeh, firstly happy Nawruz! Secondly, some bored youths seem to have taken their chance to delete the entry concerning the above-mentioned film; I had not saved the initial version of the entry before someone tagged it for deletion. Reason: they cannot trace any mention of the film on Google! They seem not to wonder why on earth I should have created the entry if the film did not exist; they seem also unperturbed by the fact that I am not a new-comer to Wikipedia. In the event that you have seen the film, or at least have heard about it, you may wish to add your voice here: [23]. Kind regards, --BF 23:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Dear Ali Doostzadeh, yes I had noticed your very constructive contribution to the discussion. Many thanks for that! I am just dumbfounded why people so cheaply waste their and other people's times; if I had joined Wikipedia just today, there might have been some ground to suspect that I might have been perpetrating a hoax. But no, for some unknown reason, they must tag an entry not two seconds old, forcing the entire community to opine on whether or not the entry should stay. I am deeply worried about the prospects of a generation that seems unable to think; the reality for them seems to be defined by Google. Incidentally, since I have noticed that you are very much involved with Shahnameh, last week I added ten links to a film on YouTube, based on Ferdowsi's Sohrab made by Tajikestan in 1991, which you might like to watch. It is a truly worthwhile film; it made me to read Ferdowsi's original of Sohrab in its entirety this weekend after a relatively long time. See the External links of Rostam and Sohrab. Kind regards, --BF 03:10, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Dear Ali Doostzadeh, thanks for "References". --BF 01:07, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
You are most welcome! As for Shusha Guppy, I tried to get one of the major Iranian magazines make a last interview with her in hospital, but as ever, in the very old-fashioned good Iranian way, this magazine turned out not to be there. One wonders why the websites of all these magazines have a section "contact us". Unfortunately, it is now too late. She was truly a human being of great substance and deep spiritual achievement; if you have read her obituaries, in one of them it is mentioned that she had been telling to her visitors that the best days of her life had consisted of her last dying days. Such genuine statement by a student of the Sufi school amounts to a great deal. --BF 21:07, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Dear Ali Doostzadeh, no I had not seen it, but right now am watching it. Many thanks. Incidentally, last year I had some e-mail exchanges with her in connection with her Wikipedia biography which I had initiated. She kindly sent some high-resolution photographs of herself to me, one of which I uploaded to Wikipedia. It was form the first moment of uploading the continual target of some of the idiotic editors of Wikipedia, and finally they removed it altogether, despite my heavy protestations; these so-called "editors" seem to me as people descended to earth directly from the deepest depth of Hades. Lastly, have you seen the entry on Bagh-e Ferdows? If so, then you may wish to initiate the entry on "Bagh-e Jannat". --BF 21:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Dear Ali Doostzadeh, thanks for your message. As for Bāgh, I have made an entry on that (see Bagh (word)). Before doing so, I checked and there was nothing available, not even in Encyclopaedia Iranica or Iran Chamber Society. Incidentally, I have also discovered that there is now a park in the North of Tehran named "Bāgh-e Ferdowsi" which has received the Agha Khan Award for architecture (see [24]). Incidentally, the data in the entry on Bagh-e Ferdows is most likely inaccurate (please see its talk page). Consequently, I wrote a rather lengthy letter to Film Museum of Iran, but when I attempted to send it through their "Contact Us" page, it turned out that the "Contact Us" page (which incidentally is full of basic grammatical/syntactic errors --- what a shame!) did not work!!! If you have read this: [25], then you will feel the extent of my frustration. Finally, many thanks for kindly offering to help. I reciprocate this offer. Kind regards, --BF 19:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Forgot to say, happy Sizdah-bedar to you too! --BF 19:30, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Dear Ali Doostzadeh, just was reading the Synopsis of the film "Candle in the Wind" by Pouran Derakhshandeh, a wonderfully deep film (far better than Mehrjoui's Santouri and in a way a certain inspiration for the story of Santouri), and believe me or not, I was unable to finish my reading by the feeling of shame and embarrassment for encountering so many spelling mistakes (amongst other things) in a relatively short text. Please read the Synopsis for yourself and judge whether it is justified to be disappointed, as I am. Here is the address: [26]. I deeply believe that someone should bring to the attention of the people concerned that it is not sufficient just to have a website in English, it is utterly important that the texts put on these sites meet a minimum requirement as regards the language; otherwise, people reading these may get the feeling that Iranians are illiterates (the logic would be, if their best directors write this way, what should one expect from the average population). Previously I told you about my letter to Farabi Cinema Foundation (which led to nothing, I hasten to add). The problem is absolutely endemic and someone should loudly shout that this is not the way forward. (Sometimes ago I proposed to TehranAvenue that I would write a comprehensive piece for them on this subject matter, but they never responded to my offer! — whither has gone 7000 years of civilization?) To see that I am not talking about isolated cases, consider the Official Website of Niki Karimi: [27] (I could have equally referred you to the Website of the director Hatami-Kia, and you would see exactly the same problems there). Please read the biography: [28]. The text abounds in major and minor errors. If Ms Niki Karimi has indeed read Jane Eyre, she should not have written "Jane Eire". If she has indeed read Henrik Ibsen's play "A Doll's House", she should not have written "Henrik Ebsen" and "The doll's house" (note the "The" instead of "A"). Etc. etc. This is absolutely shameful, since in the Wikipedia biography of Niki Karimi one reads that apparently she has translated some works into Farsi. Putting all things together, such possibility as the latter simply does not seem credible to me. And assuming that the information is correct, one wonders what the translations should be like. I no longer know what to do, so perhaps you have some ideas to act upon (some six months ago, I sent an e-mail to Niki Karimi, and despite the fact that her website has been updated several times in 2008, all the errors remain there to this date). Is it possible that e-mails sent to Iranian e-mail addresses are simply not delivered? You see, I even once wrote to Majles, asking them to donate a photograph of the modern building of Majles to Wikipedia, but that e-mail, like all the others, has to this date remained unanswered!!!
I started this message with Pouran Derakhshandeh, since I consider her a very good director. Somehow I feel that she must be made aware of the shortcomings of her English website (as a matter of fact, I have even written to her, but owing to her age --- she is older than I am (I see her more as my mother, if my mother were still alive) --- I felt it incorrect to tell her about the language problems of her website). Incidentally, almost all relevant dates given on Ms Derakhshandeh's website differ from the related dates given elsewhere; I just wonder what could be so difficult about correctly adding 621 to Iranian dates. I must mention, however, that the dates on Ms Derakhshandeh's website consistently make her for several years younger than the dates given elsewhere suggest her to be. Kind regards, --BF 00:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:PersepolistwoPersianSoldiers.jpg[edit]

Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:PersepolistwoPersianSoldiers.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Jusjih (talk) 23:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Please vote in survey over whether to have article title Human rights in Iran or Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran[edit]

  • 23 November 2007 Sinooher changed the article name from Human rights in Iran to Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran
  • Koavf changed the article name back to Human rights in Iran 9 March 2008,
  • Crazy Suit changed it back to Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran a couple weeks later, 23 March 2008.

We should decide this once and for all and not what the name is as it makes a difference to the wording of the text in the article.


Re: Persepolis picture[edit]

Regarding your note on my talk page, sure I don't mind helping you out :-) Basically as long as the user agrees that it can be displayed then you can use the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike tag, just add {{cc-by-sa-3.0}} to permissions e.g

|Description=Ancient Persian Ruin
|Date=April 3,2008
|Permission={{cc-by-sa-3.0}} I have E-mailed the user and he agreed to let me use it.

Let me know if you have some images you want me to look at or if I have been unclear. Regards, Pahari Sahib 18:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

On Abbas Kiarostami[edit]

Some discussion is going on here [29]. You might wish to contribute to it. Kind regards, --BF 22:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Dorood moteghabel bar shoma! Thank you for your kind message. As for the errors on those sites, as well as errors in film subtitles, the situation is indeed very grim. Last week I wrote very extensively on the subject to one of the most prominent academics who has now kindly promised to become active in English Wikipedia, in particular working on the entries concerning Forough Farrokhzad, Simin Behbahani, Parvin E'tesami, and more --- for the last three I have an explicit promise in writing. Let us wait and see what will happen. With kind regards, --BF 21:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

On Bagh (word)[edit]

Dear Ali doostzadeh, you might like to participate in the discussion initiated here: [30]. Kind regards, --BF 01:15, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. As for the entry in Encyclopaedia Iranica, I was unfortunately not aware of it until now (following your reference). The general problem with Encyclopaedia Iranica is that unfortunately its contents is not searchable, whereby, for instance, Google never gives any indication that something that one is looking for might be available there. Kind regards, --BF 01:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Tats (Persians)[edit]

My English is poor, so I could not translate this for Talk:Persian_people: The definition of Tat in Dehkhoda dictionary:

تات . (اخ ) قومي پارسي . (مازندران و استراباد رابينو ص 63 بخش انگليسي ). فارسي زبانان ‚ طايفه اي از ايرانيان . اهالي ولايات شمالي که به لهجه محلي سخن رانند مثل حسن آباديان قراچه داغ و مازندرانيها... در قفقاز آن قسمت از ايرانيان را که هنوززبانشان فارسي مانده تات گويند در ايران لرها غير خود را از ايرانيان تات نامند...محمودبن الحسين بن محمد کاشغري درديوان لغات الترک (چ استانبول 1333 ه .ق .) که تاليف آن در سال 466 ه . ق . پايان يافته در صفحه 292 جلد اول در ضمن کتاب الاسماءابواب ثلاثي زير عنوان برک (بضم اول و سکون ثاني و ثالث ) مي نويسد: »برک = القلنسوة‚و في المثل : تات سيز ترک بلماس ; باش سيز برک بلماس ‚ معناه : لايخلو الترک من الفارسي ‚ کما لا يخلو القلنسوة من راس .« يعني ترک بدون ايراني و کلاه بدون سر نمي شود و در (باب فعلل و فعلال و فعلل في حرکاته ) همين کتاب زير عنوان : سملم تت (بضم سين وکسرلام و سکون هر دوميم ‚ بفتح تاء اول و سکون تاء دوم ) در صفحه 403 جلد اول مي نويسد:»سملم تت = الفارسي الذي لايعرف لغة الترک البتة و کذلک کل من لايعرف الترکية يسمي سملم « يعني سملم تت آن ايراني را گويند که اصلا ترکي بلد نباشد و همچنين کسي که ترکي را نداند سملم خوانده مي شود‚ در اين دو عبارت محمود کاشغري  »تات و تت « را بمعني ايراني ترجمه کرده است . در کتاب دده قورقود (چ استانبول 1332 ه . ق ) که بزبان غزي درحدود نه قرن پيش تاليف يافته ‚ ضمن داستان بقاج خان پسر درسه خان (درسه خان اوغلي بقاج خان حکايه سي ) مولف موقعي که مي خواهد کيفيت طلوع فجر و پيدايش صبح صادق ووزش نسيم ملايم و بانگ نماز برداشتن يک ايراني مسلمان را شرح دهد در صفحه 12مي نويسد: »سوبلمه : صلقوم صلقوم طان يللري اسدکنده صلقو بوزاج تورغاي سيرادقده بدوي اتلراسين کوروب عقرادقده صقالي اوزون تات اري باکلدقده ...« يعني  »... زماني که مرد ايراني ريش درازي ‚ مشغول اذان دادن بود...« در اينجا تات بمعني ايراني مسلم استعمال شده است . مولاناجلال الدين رومي در ضمن بيتي از ملمعات خود. »اگر تات ساک و گر رومساگ و گر تورک زبان بي زباني را بياموز« يعني : »اگر ايرانيستي و گر رومي و گر ترک زبان بيزباني را بياموز«. لفظ تات را بمعني ايراني بکار برده است . ملک الشعراي بهار سبک شناسي (ج 3 ص 50)ضمن بحث از سبک و لغات طبقات ناصري راجع بکلمه تات که در آن کتاب بسيار بکار رفته است مي نويسد: »در اين کتاب (طبقات ناصري ) لغات مغولي براي بار اول داخل زبان فارسي شده است و لفظ مغول نيز شنيده مي شود و کلمه تات بمعني تاژيک و تاجيک يعني فارسي زبانان در اين کتاب ديده مي شود...« و سپس در حاشيه همان صفحه مي نوسد:»ايرانيان از قديم بمردم اجنبي تاجيک و تاژيک مي گفته اند چنانکه يونانيان ‚ بربر و اعراب اعجمي يا عجم گويند. اين لفظ در زبان دري تازه (تازي ) تلفظ شد و رفته رفته خاص اعراب گرديد ولي در توران و ماوراءالنهر لهجه قديم باقي و به اجانب تاجيک گويند و به همان معني داخل زبان ترکي شد و فارسي زبانان را تاجيک خواندند و اين کلمه بر فارسيان اطلاق گرديد و ترک و تاجيک گفته شد.« قسمت اول گفتار مرحوم بهار ميرساند که لفظ تات بمعني ايراني و پارسي زبان بکار رفته است و قسمت دوم آن نيز منطقي و درست است و لفظ تژک (بکسرژ) در ديوان لغات الترک بمعني ايراني آمده است . ناگفته نماند‚ اختلاف ترک و تاجيک و ياترک و تات آنروز که از مطالعه ديوان لغات الترک محمود کاشغري - داستانهاي دده قورقودنزهت القلوب حمدا& مستوفي و غيره مستفاد مي شود امروز با وجود شيوع و رواج کامل زبان ترکي در اغلب نقاط آذربايجان ‚ در ميان روستائيان موجود است و هر يک ديگري را بانسبت دادن به تات و يا به ترک تعبير مي کنند. شمس الدين سامي در ستون دوم صفحه 370قاموس ترکي (چ استانبول 1317 ه . ق .) زير عنوان تات مي نويسد: تات ‚ اسکي ترکلرين کندي حکم لري آلتندا بولونان يرلرده اسکي ايراني و کردلره ويرديکلري اسم اولوب مقام تحقير ده قوللانيليردي .« يعني ترکان قديم ايرانيان و اکرادي را که زير فرمان خود داشتندتات مي ناميدند و اين کلمه در مقام تحقير استعمال مي شد. در ترانه معروفي بمطلع : »اوشو ددم ها‚ اوشو ددم داغدان آلما داشيديم « که در ميان کودکان خردسال آذربايجاني معمول است ‚ تات بمعني مرد آبادي نشين وزراعت پيشه اي استعمال شده است : گوموشي ويرديم تاتا تات منه داري ويردي داريني سپديم قوشا قوش منه قانات ويردي قاناد لانديم اوچماقا حق قاپوسين آچماقا يعني : پول (سيم ) را به تات دادم و ارزن گرفتم ‚ ارزن را بمرغ دادم مرغ براي من بال و پرداد‚ پر به پرواز گشودم تا در حق را باز کنم . در مثل مشهور‚ »بوسوز هيچ تاتين کتابندايوخدر.« يعني اين حرف در کتاب هيچ تات نيست ‚ کلمه تات بمعني شخصي دانشمند واهل کتاب بکار برده شده است . در مثل معروف  »تات ويزدن قيزار‚ ترک گوزدن «. تات بمعني مرد آبادي نشيني که براي گرم کردن خود از کرسي استفاده مي کند استعمال شده است البته ترکان بيابان گرد از قديم الايام براي گرم کردن خود در وسط چادرهاي بزرگ نمدي که اوتاغ (محل روشن کردن آتش ) ناميده مي شد آتش روشن مي کردند و موضوع تنور و کرسي در پيش آنها نبود. از هر فرد روستايي يا ايلات آذربايجان بپرسيد تات يعني چه ؟بيدرنگ جواب مي دهد: »تات يعني تخته قاپو و آبادي نشين « پس بطور کلي از مراتب مزبور باين نتيجه مي رسيم که تات کلمه اي بوده بجاي تاجيک که لااقل از ده قرن پيش از طرف ترکان (بيسواد و مالدار و بيابانگرد) به ايرانيان (دانشمند و کشاورز و شهريگر) اطلاق مي شده است و زبان تاتي به لهجه هاي مختلف زبان ايراني مي گفته اند. (تاتي و هرزني عبدالعلي کارنگ صص 30- 33).

By the way, my first hand experiance with Kurds (asking them or witnessing), Kurds of Khorasan understand only about (very approxiamte) 20 percent of the Kurdish dialect of Sanandaj locals, but both are called Kurds. Azarbaijani Turkish is not mutually intelligible. I have had trips with our Azari countrymen to Turkey. They were speaking English with Turkish people. One educated Azeri told me that he had needed one year to fully master Istanbuli Turkish to prevent confusion and misunderstanding, but both people are called Turks (let aside the correctness).

Dehkhoda dictionary on Internet: [[31]],
تات (tat):[[32]]
(You should go there with Internet Explorer). —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reference. Let me just summarize some key points I found interesting. Besides the Tats of Shirvan who are Persian speakers, "Tat" was used for Kurds and other Iranic speakers by Altaic speakers. Also interesting that in some areas, the sedentary people, even if they speak Altaic languages, were referred to by migratory tribes as Tat. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 22:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

My email[edit]

Hi, My email has been active and user been enable to email me since long ago. Did you have trouble using it? Farmanesh (talk) 03:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

With regards to article violating neologism[edit]

Just a response to off topics:[33]. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 08:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC) besides the above comments, perhaps some clarification is need.

I brought statement with regards to publications , periodical, t.v. and radio programs in Azerbaijani. See Beeman (Brown university) and the other quote I brought. Annika Rabo, Bo Utas, "The role of the state in West Asia”, Swedish Research institute in Istanbul , 2005. pg 156. Excerpt:There is in fact, a considerable publication (book, newspaper, etc.) taking place in the two largest minority languages in the Azerbaijani language and Kurdish, and in the academic year 2004-05 B.A. programmes in the Azerbaijani language and literature (in Tabriz) and in the Kurdish language and literature (in Sanandaj) are offered in Iran for the very first time. So when I say you do not read my comments, I mean it. You ask for the same information that I brought. Did you read it? Here is one guy Javad Heyat,[34], who has published 330 articles and 7 books in Persian and Azeri Turkish. Here is a Turkish journal calle Dilmaj[[35]] where more than half the articles are Turkish. Note Varliq, Dilmaj and etc. are not government funded but the government allocates funding for state t.v., radio and newspaper pages and university level course in Tabriz, but it does not fund elementary level teaching of Turkish, just like many countries, including the US, do not fund every language that is spoken in the US to be thought on the elemntary level. Germany does not fund the language of three million Turkish speakers. France does not fund the language of its 10% Arabic speakers. In Iran there are about 20 languages, so the elementary language level teaching is in Persian. It has been like that historically, and as I showed, Turkish did not have a high status relative to Persian even amongst Turcophone Iranians. No one wanted Turkish to be thought in 1906. See the Rasulzadeh quote. It goes back to 1906 where Persian was made the sole official language and the fact that Azeri Turkish historically was not thought in Iran (the necessary background I brought). But if Azerbaijanis feel like instead of Persian or besides Persian, they want to also learn the non-classical Turkish of Turkey/republic of Azerbaijan, then I have no problem with it, as long as it is put through a democratic vote by them and not some person in the West dictating to them what is good or bad. And the negative reaction at one times towards Turkish is the fault of pan-Turkist expansionism [36].

And yes the government of Iran has a statistics on books published in different languages every year and you can contact them. Unfortunately I had one of the newspapers that published this, but I lost it. It talked about Turkish publication in Iran since 1979. But if you need actual confirmation on some of the Turkish books, call the store here [37]. Note the "Taqvim Torki" (Turkish Calendar) marks important dates in pan-Turkist history including the day Zia Gok Alp was born! It is there. Call the store and ask them. And here is an interview with a publishing house in Tabriz that publishes Turkish books [38]. And unlike other countries, no one cares in Iran if a publication calls Babak Khorramdin a Turk or Talysh or Kurd or whatever. Neither do they care if cranky theories like Elamites were Turks are published.

As per the country Azerbaijan, and its state funding, it is inadequate, many times there is no teachers for Talyshi and others, and it is only two levels of classes and once a week for a short time. And I am not sure how many Talyshi/Kurd/Lezgi programs are thought at the university level, but I can show Azerbaijani Turkish literature being thought in Iran. And note I quote a neutral source: "The suppression of Talysh identity (predominant in the south) during the Soviet period led to a situation in which the Talysh ethnicity is unquantifiable (yet the population with the largest growth rate in the country). This is also partly due to a reluctance to claim Talysh identity (influenced by a stigma against publicly pronouncing non-Azerbaijani identity) and the diminishing use of Talysh language, except in places which are relatively remote and unintegrated. Nationalists seem fairly marginalised."[39]. Each country has its own issues, but the lies like "Turkish names are banned, Turks are called Donkey by the government, and etc." and "So called country of Iran" or "KDP is terrorist" are lies. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 15:32, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Also I still expect an answer on the verses I brought from Nasimi and Khatai. Did Persians force them to use these Persian and Arabic words (filtered through Persian)? --alidoostzadeh (talk) 15:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Note I provided .pdf files of actual turkish journals published in Iran. I am wondering if someone can provide .pdf files of Talysh and Kurdish journals published in the republic of Azerbaijan and Turkey. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 16:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, they will get wrong information and think we are lying and are agents and etc. There is a political agenda behind all these misinformation, efforts to create ethnic enmity, so truth doesn't matter. And even if some people know the truth, they will still go with the short term political agenda forgetting that in the longer term, it will not be the right move. In the ultimate end, we know what the truth is. Note Iranica: "Whereas in Soviet Azerbaijan, the purist efforts have yielded considerable results, the Azerbaijani language of Iran, through school education and the growing influence of Persian mass media, remains very dependent upon Persian. ". There was no intentional purist effort in Iran and so there is a good amount of Persian lexicon in Iranian Azerbaijani Turkish. I just noted the title of Fuzûlî's Turkish work: Divan (Persian word), Bang o Baade (Persian words), Hadiqat as-Su'ada (Arabic), Daastaan Leyli o Majnoon (Persian word Daastan, two Arabic names), Risaaleyeh Mu'ammiyat (Arabic words), Shikayat-Nama (Arabic Shikayat and Persian Nama). Note a single work has a Turkish name. Such purist effort basically got rid of the Ottoman Turkish language from history. That is what I call ethnocide, destruction of a whole culture. What was wrong with Ottoman Turkish for it to be wiped out and become a dead lanuage? The problem with it was that it was not "pure" enough. Note the same happened with classical Azerbaijani in the Caucus. Note the "purity" (whatever that means, I mean originally the cavemen which were our ancestors just made barbaric sounds and we can be really pure by making similar barbaric sounds to communicate) of the language is really a nationalistic concept. No one for example will throw away the word "computer" from English since it is not an anglo-saxon word. Technical English is powerful (the most powerful language in the World) because it is 80-90% Greek and Latin. I took note of 5 random poems from Nasimi's Turkish Diwan and in each one there was more Persian words (not counting the Persianized Arabic Words) than Turkish. "Persian imperialism"! did not force him to use such words. So if they think the Azerbaijani Turkish in Iran is "Fazeri", it is because there was no purist effort. But we can count classical Azerbaijani as "Fazeri". I estimate easily that 70-80% of words used by Fuzuli and Nasimi are non-Turkic. I do not see the benefit of changing to Latin and getting rid of Persian/Arabic words from Ottoman Turkish. That basically got rid of 400-500 years of literature and culture and I guess Ethnocide can be used here! What these people have a problem with is the mutual influence of languages in Iran on each other. That is what happens when people coexist. They blend in somewhat. So what? Sorry, I think some people's goal is just to create enmity for different ethnic groups of people that have coexisted, intermarried, borrowed words from each other for centuries. It doesn't matter, nothing lasts for ever in the duration of the 5 billion years of earth, much has come and gone. Another lie, will not change anything. But I am sick of the stench of hatred and will take a long break soon. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 21:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Some history information[edit]

Anonymous ip wrote a message in Persian with regards to some verses in Persian poetry.[40] --alidoostzadeh (talk) 14:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)