User talk:Nightstallion/π

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What was wrong with my replacement map on the List of European Union member states by accession article? I can readd Azerbaijan now that we have a reference for it, if that was the issue. -- Aivazovsky (talk) 23:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I see no reason to replace the old map with the new one -- it's not better in any way, and I find the old one more aesthetically pleasing. —Nightstallion 23:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Furthermore, it combines too much information -- we've got another map for accession negotiation status just above it... —Nightstallion 00:01, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
What about this?: Image:European Union accession policies.png -- Aivazovsky (talk) 00:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, now the information content is okay -- but I still think the original map is more aesthetically pleasing. Especially at a small resolution, the borders are nearly invisible in your version... Plus, I think the map projection is better in the original, so I see no real reason to change. Why do you want to use the new image? (BTW, Greenland shouldn't be pink but grey -- unless you've got a source stating something else?) —Nightstallion 09:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The new map seems more "real" to me, but I'll be glad to revert to the original.
Why is Greenland pink? Because there's still debate in Greenland over EU membership. In January 2007, former Danish minister for Greenland, Tom Høyem said in an interview with the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten that he "would not be surprised if Greenland again becomes a member of the EU... The EU needs the Arctic window and Greenland cannot alone manage the gigantic Arctic possibilities". [1] -- Aivazovsky (talk) 17:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Ah, yeah, I had read about that -- but we need a source for that (EUobserver's no good)... —Nightstallion 15:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

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Georgia elections

Hi Nightstallion. Yes, the results are finally final. :) Eelctions.Ge has produced an ineteresting interactive map of Georgia municipalities, and I'm going to try to convert it into a wikitable. I'm not quite sure how to do that at this moment though. Also, I'll try to do some cleanup at Georgian presidential election, 2008. Best, --KoberTalk 05:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

They have not yet published the referenda results by districts. I've added final results to the corresponding articles. Regards, --KoberTalk 06:21, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Faroese update

You asked me to keep you informed so here goes. Nothing much has happened. The leaders of the ruling parties met for 90 minutes yesterday evening, discussing the possibility of continuing the coalition. No word on whether they got anywhere. The leaders of all the parties will meet today for further discussion.[2] In my opinion, it will be very difficult to form a government without Fólkaflokkurin. Haukur (talk) 10:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

The leader of Fólkaflokkurin says he expects to know more on whether the coalition continues after the meeting at 13:30 today.[3] Yesterday, I heard an interview with the leader of Tjóðveldi. He said that he thought there was a 50/50 chance of a new government being formed. But obviously a new government is what he wants so he may be playing up the chances. Haukur (talk) 11:34, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the updates! —Nightstallion 15:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
A new meeting between the leaders of the ruling parties has started. After the meeting they are expected to announce either that they will enter formal negotiations for continuing the coalition (which would make it very likely that it will in fact continue) or that they have encountered difficulties and want to explore other options. Haukur (talk) 15:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks! If there's a separatist government -- how likely would an independence referendum in the next four years be? —Nightstallion 15:46, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Not very likely. Fólkaflokkurin has a 2015 referendum on their platform.[4] Sjálvstýrisflokkurin speaks of independence "within two election terms" (i.e. 8 years). Tjóðveldið is likely the most radical but, although the largest party, would be held back by the others in a coalition government. Miðflokkurin—which I'm not sure the other parties could stomach—supports independence but their agenda is vague. Haukur (talk) 16:02, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Mh, too bad... —Nightstallion 16:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
We'll see. To many people the main thing is to build a sustainable independent economy and then an independence referendum is likely to be very successful. There are some hard core secessionists and some hard core unionists but there are also a lot of people who will support independence if and only if it doesn't look like a financial catastrophe. In the eyes of many of the hard-core republicans this reasoning puts the cart before the horse. They argue that a sustainable economy will only be achieved once the country is independent and has to take full responsibility for itself. In this context the looming world recession, if it becomes serious, may set the independence cause back. On the other hand it could also make the Danes less inclined (and able) to support the islands financially which would in turn increase independence sentiment. On a vastly larger scale, something like that happened to the Soviet Union and its satellites. Haukur (talk) 16:15, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The meeting is over and Eidesgaard says it was successful. The party leaders will now talk with their MPs and then meet again later today.[5] Barring some unexpected development it seems likely that the coalition will continue. They'll still have to work out a new government platform agreement and it's possible that there may still be modest steps towards increased self-rule. And even if the coalition continues it won't necessarily do so for four years. But so far it's not looking like a good day for the separatists. Haukur (talk) 16:34, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Too bad. Thanks for the information! —Nightstallion 16:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The ruling parties have now confirmed that they will enter into formal negotiations tomorrow on continuing the coalition. The leader of the Union Party says that a reduction of the Danish block grant to the Faroes is off the table. "We need every penny."[6] Haukur (talk) 22:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Interesting. —Nightstallion 22:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Meanwhile, back in Copenhagen, there is tension between the Greenlandic representatives to the Folketing and the Danish National Party. The Greenlanders just sent a little F U to the Danish government by opposing its new immigration bill. Kristian Thulesen Dahl says that it may have "consequences" if Greenlanders "interfere with Danish internal affairs" and Henriette Kjær says that new elections might have to be called (the government has a very slim majority). Haukur (talk) 08:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Why are the Greenlandic MPs so important? I thought the government hinged on a Faroese MP's support? —Nightstallion 15:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
On this particular issue the two Faroese MPs have an agreement that neither will vote but the two Greenlanders have no such agreement and they're both opposed to the bill. I don't really know the intricacies. Haukur (talk) 16:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Ah, okay. —Nightstallion 18:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Negotiations between the ruling parties are still going on. Still nothing definite. Reports of the status of the islands being the most difficult issue for them to come to an agreement on. Rumors, denied by both parties, that Høgni Hoydal has offered Jørgen Niclasen the prime minister chair in an alternate coalition. This reminds me of the situation after the last Icelandic parliamentary election. Then the ruling parties entered into formal negotiations on continuing the coalition but behind the scenes one of the parties was actually negotiating an alternate deal with an opposition party, giving us the government we now have. But that's just speculation, I'd still say it's most likely that we'll see the Faroese coalition continue. But Fólkaflokkurin certainly has a very strong position, I can't see why they shouldn't hold out for the prime minister position. Haukur (talk) 17:05, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Naturally I'd be in favour of that... :) How likely is it? Can Niclasen resist the offer of the PM's post? ;) Would such a government make move towards independence? —Nightstallion 17:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, it's still just a rumor but it seems like the obvious thing for Høgni to do. But Fólkaflokkurin can also use the possibility of a separatist coalition to strengthen their hand in their talks with the unionists so maybe they'll get the PM's chair anyway. In any case, the only thing that is officially happening is that the present coalition parties are negotiating. There have been some more reports that the negotiations are going slowly, that very little is down on paper yet and that they are finding the union/independence issue very thorny. But it's not unusual that these things take a while so we really don't know anything yet. Haukur (talk) 19:57, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay, thanks! —Nightstallion 20:14, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm travelling and don't have time - but there is a surprise development. The previous coalition has broken off negotiations and now Javnaðarflokkurin, Miðflokkurin and Tjóðveldi are now talking. Very surprising to me! Haukur (talk) 10:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh! So that would be a slightly pro-independence government, then? —Nightstallion 11:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes. And now they're inviting Sjálvstýrisflokkurin to join in the negotiations. Interesting but unfortunately I can't provide you with a full update now. Haukur (talk) 15:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks! —Nightstallion 18:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a critical time in the negotiations now. We will probably know tomorrow whether it's going to work out between Tjóðv. Miðfl. and Javn. Haukur (talk) 22:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! What are the crunch points of the negotiations? Independence? —Nightstallion 22:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
That was a big issue, yes, and something they left until late in the game. But apparently it's not the biggest problem at the moment. The last report (from 22 minutes ago)[7] is that Tjóðveldi and Miðflokkurin are having difficulties reconciling their views on "ethical" questions (LGBT issues, abortion rights etc.) This is a bit of a "duh" moment if you ask me and the reason why I was so surprised to see those parties try to work out a coalition agreement. I can't see how Tjóðveldi can make any meaningful concessions to Miðflokkurin's Christianist agenda without seriously pissing off their young radical base. But apparently they are now trying to come up with an agreement that makes no-one too unhappy. That will have to be something pretty vague if you ask me. I'm going to sleep now but hope to provide you with an update in the morning. We'll see if we'll have a left-wing, "ethical", moderately pro-independence coalition government with the slimmest possible majority :) Haukur (talk) 23:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Interesting. Thanks a lot! —Nightstallion 23:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
They worked into the night but without being able to present an agreement as they had hoped. They'll continue negotiations today. Haukur (talk) 07:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, at least they haven't given up yet. —Nightstallion 09:55, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
They are optimistic that they will work things out today. It will be interesting to see what policy they'll take on the block grant. It is the big hurdle on the way to independence but it's not as big as it used to be. In 2001 the block grant from Denmark constituted 27% of the Faroese government income. In 2005 it was 16% and in 2007 it was 14%. The parties currently negotiating will at the very least agree to keep it frozen at the current level so if the economy grows it will gradually constitute a smaller part of the income. There's also a possibility that they will agree to actively reduce it. The trick is to eventually get that figure down to 0%, preferably without hurting quality of life, and then you have a sustainable country. Like I mentioned before, if we have an economic downturn coming up this will be more difficult. Haukur (talk) 11:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Sounds sensible. —Nightstallion 11:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Negotiations still going on (horrible weather has actually trapped some of the representatives at the table) but it looks like there won't be anything definitive today. Maybe tomorrow. It still does look like they have most of the substantive issues worked out and are fleshing out the details so I'd be surprised if negotations break down. Then again, that wouldn't be the first time I was surprised. Haukur (talk) 19:07, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
nods We'll know tomorrow, then. Thanks! —Nightstallion 19:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Apparently we won't. Still nothing definitive.[8] Haukur (talk) 00:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The latest hurdle was to decide on the distribution of ministers. It seems that Miðflokkurin insisted on getting two of them, causing a breakdown in negotitations. They then backed down at the last moment and are now settling for one while Javnaðarflokkurin will get three (including the PM spot) and Tjóðveldi gets four. Personally I'm more curious to see what issues they've agreed on. Haukur (talk) 10:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. I suppose if Eidesgaard gets to stay in office, then the government will have to be more pro-independence -- else, why should Republic even have negotiated a new government? —Nightstallion 13:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Tjóðveldi wouldn't completely sell out their biggest issue and Javnaðarflokkurin is only moderately unionist anyway. But we'll know for sure later today, they've called a press conference to announce the platform. Haukur (talk) 14:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
nods and waits for news :)Nightstallion 14:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Okay, they've presented their platform now. Very left-wing as you would expect. As for the union issues, a cut is planned to the block grant and a referendum on the status of the Faroe Islands is planned in 2010 - though I'm not quite sure what exactly the question will be. I'll let you know once I get more details. Haukur (talk) 18:56, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
It is, if I'm reading this right, a referendum on a constitution for the islands. A committee will prepare one and it will be submitted to a referendum in 2010.[9] Haukur (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
So, it's not about independence, per se? —Nightstallion 19:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I think that's right. But I think it will be seen as a step towards independence. In other news, the coalition is founding a new ministry - a ministry of foreign affairs, which the Republic will provide a minister for. Haukur (talk) 19:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, that's *certainly* a step towards independence... Incidentally, what's the Faroese parties' position on EU membership for the Faroe Islands?
The Republic is firmly against joining the EU (but they do want to join the UN). The Centre Party is also against joining the EU (but they're all for supporting Israel, that's one of their foreign policy planks). The Union Party wants to "explore" a EU membership. Incidentally, they're also for joining the UN. The Social Democrats want to join EFTA and get an EEA-like agreement with the EU. I'm not clear where the Self-Government Party stands, their election platform doesn't really say. Haukur (talk) 19:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Ah, well, can't have everything at once. How can the Union Party be in favour of UN membership while being against independence, though? —Nightstallion 19:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I have absolutely no idea. Haukur (talk) 20:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Heh, okay. —Nightstallion 20:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Finally, the full text of the coalition agreement: [10] The clause on foreign affairs includes a plan to work towards EFTA membership and to join UNESCO, UNCHR and WTO. There's also this clause: "Forðað skal verða fyri, at føroyskur uttanríkispolitikkur endar undir ES valdi í sambandi við, at í Danmark eru ætlanir um at taka fyrivarnini mótvegis ES av og seta í gildi nýggja ES stjórnarskipan. Málið er, at valdið verður flutt til Føroya og ikki til ES." My translation: "It must be prevented that Faroese foreign policy ends up under the power of the EU in connection with the fact that in Denmark there are plans to abolish the special provisions towards the EU [the opt-outs?] and to install a new EU constitution. The goal is to move the power to the Faroe Islands and not to the EU." Haukur (talk) 22:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds rather anti-EU, but also decidedly pro-independence... —Nightstallion 22:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


Is it correct like this: Faroese constitutional referendum, 2010 -- And could you briefly summarise the government negotiations and coalition agreement in Faroese parliamentary election, 2008? Thanks a lot! —Nightstallion 19:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Maja Gojkovic

...voted for Boris Tadic. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Heh, that's great. :) Just to annoy Nikolic or because that is genuinely her political belief? She's quite popular, isn't she? Might that help Tadic? —Nightstallion 15:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps if the DS helps reelect her Mayor of Novi Sad in late May this year? :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Heh. Wouldn't be a bad deal, would it? —Nightstallion 15:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

The Hungarian Coalition will support Tadic only if he adopts a very strict program that promotes Serbia's national minorities.

Cedomir Jovanovic will call his voters to vote for whomever they think is OK, but will support Tadic directly, and LDP completely join the campaign, only if Tadic gives the word to schedule parliamentary elections parallel with the local if the Government of Serbia blocks European progress (probably referring to the SAA).

Milutin Mrkonjic had claimed that SPS is strongly for the European Union, and that there will be no conditioning; the Socialist Party of Serbia will plainly next week decide whom to support in a regular session.

Vojislav Kostunica and Velimir Ilic said it's foolish to even think about this before the final results. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, let's put all that into the article then, shouldn't we? Thanks for the info! Do you expect Kostunica to support Tadic? —Nightstallion 18:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

As artist to artist

Please, help me to upload the new Kyrgyzstani coins images what I scanned yestarday from my collection to articles Kyrgyzstani som (English and Russian versions (I'll translate on Russian later)) from my Russian-speaking sandbox. Beforehand thank you.CrazyRepublican (talk) 01:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't really know what you mean...? —Nightstallion 15:50, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I know (from your words), that you numizmatist, and I think, that it will be interesting to look at images of new Kyrgyzstani coins for you too (and not only for you). But I don't know how to load images from my Russian sandbox to article. So I requested to you for help. CrazyRepublican (talk) 23:20, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm still not sure I understand. You've uploaded the images to Wikipedia but don't know how to add them to articles? —Nightstallion 00:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes! (red face) CrazyRepublican (talk) 11:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Simply use [[Image:NAMEOFYOURIMAGEHERE]]... —Nightstallion 14:02, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Milorad Dodik

Prime Minister of the Republic of Srbska proposed total demilitarization of Bosnia and Herzegovina down to advanced semi-martial units, with the NATO protecting it for the next decade at least. He alerted to the necessity of that to maintain peace as giving weapons could still result to raised tensions and future conflicts, especially with the Kosovo question coming to a close. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Very... interesting idea. What's the real reason? —Nightstallion 00:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I (and most) believe that there's no catch. :D
By the way, did you hear about these silly rumors about George Clooney and Sharon Stone opposing independence of Kosovo? :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:16, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
So, why *does* he want it? And is that a good or a bad idea? BiH would not be independent for one or two more decades...
Yeah, and I'm rather amazed, as I see *NO* reason at all why they would even take an interest... —Nightstallion 00:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, pretty good. Will stop possibilities of raising tensions, and perhaps an inevitable conflict in the end. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Mh. And what do the other parties say? —Nightstallion 14:01, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Not sure. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

In a poll, more than 90% of Kosovo supports Tomislav Nikolic. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

What a surprise. Urgh. —Nightstallion 16:16, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
This is because it will get independence easier this way, I think. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I thought you meant Kosovan Serbs...! —Nightstallion 16:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
No, no, no, I would've surely specified if I meant that. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
So, Kosovans think independence will come easier if Nikolic is elected? Why? Because Serbia couldn't do something worse electorally, anyway? ;)Nightstallion 16:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Why are the results after 80% votes counted and from unofficial sources OK for the template? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Because they're better than none -- we'll simply update them later... —Nightstallion 16:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
There are some - below the template, in the article. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
No reason to have them in the article instead of the template; we always have the best results we've got in the template, it doesn't make sense to only have them in the article instead. —Nightstallion 16:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Serbian election (comparison, from parliamentary to presidential)

The forces behind Tomislav Nikolic have upgraded their 1,200,000 to an amazing 1,650,000, a result of a masterfully done peaceful and pacifist campaign, in which he attracted all the people who in general don't like the way they live today, completely unrelated to himself or the political party which he belongs.

On the other hand, Boris Tadic has managed to raise just from 1,250,000 to 1,460,000, lagging behind. He will have to work a lot to catch up. The polarization on just two parties begins. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The greatest loser is Velimir Ilic, drowning his dying Populist cause from 800,000 down to a meager 310,000. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Milutin Mrkonjic brags how he saved his political party by securing 250,000 votes, but 300,000 was his supporters' original strength. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Cedomir Jovanovic has secured his party with a small progress, from 180,000 up to 220,000. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

So, all in all, the national conservatives and socialists are losing votes to the radicals? How about LDP (and G17+)? —Nightstallion 19:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I wrote about Ceda...also, the minorities (Magyars) have upgraded from 60,000 to 90,000, which is a significant progress (for them). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, the Karics have cemented their death. From 70,000 down to 40,000. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Oops, I've overread the bit about Ceda. Sounds good to me. :)Nightstallion 20:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and on the electoral post on which I was an Observer, the Radicals have made numerous violations. Majority of members were from SRS (two thirds including President) and ten votes were forged in favor of Toma, but we have managed to dismiss them. Looking at a very high number of invalid votes - 80,000 - makes me very suspicious in general. :P --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. I hope you'll be able to avoid fraud in the decisive second round...? —Nightstallion 20:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Tadic is being blackmailed. He has a choice. The Populists will endorse him if he signs several annexes to the governmental agreement, regarding European integrations, while Ceda on the other hand requests his guarantees of European integration at all cost. The Magyars' requests will be very difficult to fulfill, almost impossible (very intense positive discrimination of the minorities). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. So what will happen? —Nightstallion 23:53, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Tadic is one of the rare politicians who take up everything from everyone, and always keep their promises, with no exceptions at all. He will carefully look what he can fulfill and what he can't. This all rotates around Kosovo, he'll have to dismiss the parliament if Kostunica blocks SAA, and he'll also have to condition the EU for no support on Kosovo independence. I bid he'll go on both, and try to delay the Kosovo question, effectively satisfying both sides, at least until the local elections, and signing SAA. With then the money practically flowing into Serbia from Russia (Russia is buying the Serbian oil company and building a part of its gasline in Serbia), I think that the democrats could finally have a sigh of relief. Of course, Kosovo will have to be solved later, and that's what I'm counting on. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
So you think he'll manage to win, somehow? —Nightstallion 11:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
...well, considering that he has several hours ago refused the DSS-NS proposal... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:13, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
So that's a no, then, I suppose... —Nightstallion 19:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

The struggle is horrible and dirty. Boris uses the "Greater Serbia" idea as a weapon against Nikolic and DS has organized a protest after Nikolic allegedly declared the first thing he'll do after he becomes President is pardon Djindjic's assassins. SRS has organized in front of the President's office a counter-protest, in which young Radicals brought sacks filled with paper with "1 million" written on each one, protesting against the Democrats to stop stealing money from the country.

Tadic uses Nikolic's statements as a weapon as well, quoting the one on which Nikolic stated that all European countries are going to become a part of EU, except Serbia, calling it "that hole in the Persian carpet". Accusing Nikolic for anti-Europeanism, Tadic claims he wants Serbia to be a "jewel in that very Persian carpet". The progressive and aggressive campaign in which each one attacks another is expanding. Tadic's slogan now is "To Conquer Europe Together". His commercial is based completely upon the fall of the Bastille image, with young people carrying Serbian and European flags rushing down the hill. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

And, will that work? —Nightstallion 09:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Depends on their legendary dual next week. It'll be aired for interest to all of former Yugoslavia. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:46, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 00:15, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


The article about Southern Italy is named Mezzogiorno instead of the more correct "Southern Italy". Mezzogiorno is a synonim of sud in Italian, exactly as settentrione is a synonim of nord. Can we change the tile of the article? What do you think about it? --Checco (talk) 14:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

If you think the other title is better, why not? —Nightstallion 14:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Can you do it? I can't 'cos currently "Southern Italy" is a redirect. --Checco (talk) 14:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Done, but you'll have to update the article. —Nightstallion 15:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Flash news

UDEUR Senator Cusumano announced that he was to vote for the government and was insulted and beaten up by collegue Barbato. The poor Cusumano was taken out from the aisle weeping, after a sudden illness. Prodi is now short of only two votes to get the vote of confidence. --Checco (talk) 15:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

... he beat him up? Seriously? —Nightstallion 15:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
That's what news said at the beginning. I don't know exactly what happened. There is a video in which you can see Barbato insulting and spitting on Cusumano. In any case, after the illness, Cusumano was able to come back to the Senate and vote yes. It was not useful: the government of Prodi fell exactly some seconds ago. --Checco (talk) 19:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I know, I've been watching Google News for an hour for updates on the issue. What now? I'm fairly certain that Napolitano will try to have a technical government force a new electoral law through, but will it succeed? —Nightstallion 20:00, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I answered in my talk page. --Checco (talk) 16:11, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


Right now, the Serbian public is disgusted by the information with the "allied" (well, looked that way in Serbia :) Slovenian Ministry of Foreign Affairs leaked to Serbian political leadership: The USA are hardly pressing the European countries, to the level of threatening, to quickly unilaterally recognize independence of Kosovo, and as the currently leading country, Slovenia the hardest. They revealed that the plan is to quickly hold an EU session and recognize such an act rapidly, before Russia could convene the Security Council. They also revealed the US diplomatic leadership is seeking support amongst other countries, most notably Turkey, Japan and several others...a huge plus for Nikolic during the campaign. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Ouch. When's the legendary duel mentioned above? —Nightstallion 09:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
1 February 2008. And I don't think it matters anymore. The Minister for Kosovo-Metohija (DSS) openly called for the SAA to be refused. So far the Minister of Education (also from the ranks of DSS) has openly supported this, and if the President signs it, calls for +SRS+SPS abolishment in the parliament. Voja and Velja are seriously considering this... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
... ouch... So Nikolic has basically already won. —Nightstallion 12:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The peasants have with their 20,000 just endorsed Nikolic. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:42, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The Kosovo-Metohija Ministry's engine is now turning rapidly. :D Won't help them much I guess though... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Seems Nikolic will win, mh? —Nightstallion 18:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I'd bet on him, but like I said, NO estimate can be made, simply because the difference is about thousands...that's why no poll or any estimate there is to put in the article IMHO. :P --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
sighs Ouch. That won't be good for the Balkans... —Nightstallion 08:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Strange deletion

Without even waiting for me to hangon, User:Trusilver deleted an article about Liberal DS, a new faction with the PD, that I had just written. As I cannot understand why he took that decision, can I ask you to reintroduce the article deleted? I cannot understand how such things can happen. --Checco (talk) 20:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Read this and this, and tell me what do you think about it. --Checco (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Trusilver restored the article, but told me that he will check it on Monday or Tuesday and probably put it in the AfD process. For now I expanded a little bit it and put some references. Let me know what I can do to save it from permanent deletion. I think it is notable, and you? (Sorry for all these posts) --Checco (talk) 21:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
It seems ok now. Trusilver liked the expansion of it. --Checco (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Glad to see this was resolved; I'm sorry, wasn't online today. —Nightstallion 18:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

A similar article was deleted some months ago. It was about the Democratic Ecologists, a faction within the PD. Here you can see the record and make your opinion. I think that this article should be restored. --Checco (talk) 15:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I'd tend to agree, yes. —Nightstallion 16:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
So, can you restore it? --Checco (talk) 16:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I think you formally have to file a request for undeletion, don't you? —Nightstallion 16:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know anything about this... you are the administrator, not me! Anyway, where do I need to do it? --Checco (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

As you can see here, only two users supported the deletion. You and I could have stopped it if we had the chance to know about it. They did not even notify to me that they were about deleting it, the second time. As an administrator, can you restore it or ask to restore it? --Checco (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Technically, it should be done via Wikipedia:Deletion review, but I suppose in this case it's okay if I do it. —Nightstallion 17:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
If you do it, I will find more references and I will expand it. --Checco (talk) 17:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Antonio López de Santa Anna

He had eleven terms as president, but the infobox has only allowed to show ten on the article. Any way to fix this? Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Either hardcode it or ask the template editors to add another entry? —Nightstallion 18:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
What's hardcoding? Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Using tags like < br> and '''text''' and so on to make it appear as if the template supported more lines. —Nightstallion 09:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Would you mind doing this? I'l know what to do from then on if you do. The code is there, just not appearing. Therequiembellishere (talk) 23:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


...supported Tomislav Nikolic. Its board has also brought the decision to merge with SRS. You could note it - this is due to happen within months. They are growing.

The political fight is very dirty. DS and LSV are sending a very strong propaganda campaign showing always the 1990s and connoting Nikolic with them. SRS on the other hand uses this to their advantage, showing them undemocratic.

LDP faces a scandal with one of their high-ranking officials being a yesterday's Neo-Nazi and all hell broke apart. The not signing of SAA will not be received well, but now there is no possibility of refusal from Kostunica, and the Political and Economic Treaty between EU and Serbia will help somewhat...I think. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

We can only hope... —Nightstallion 19:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Seen the map, btw? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Yep. Who are the other colours? —Nightstallion 17:15, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
What other colors? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I did not see that the legend had been updated; originally, the colours were explained only for Tadic, Nikolic and Pasztor. —Nightstallion 18:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
DSS, NS, SPS and LDP boycott. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
A lot of NS electorate and probably a large chunk of the DSS (up to half) will support Nikolic AFAIK. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:28, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
So it's as close as ever, then. —Nightstallion 19:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Tadic wastes Nikolic in the duel. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
"Wastes"? —Nightstallion 22:16, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Nikolic makes a mockery of himself. He gave an apple to Tadic at one point and was very tired, just returning from Moscow. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh and Nikolic received support from the Neo-Nazi movements, and the polls say Tadic is expected to receive between 2.1 and 2.35 million, while Nikolic between 2 and 2.25 million votes. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:55, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
So Tadic is slightly leading now. —Nightstallion 11:58, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
A shocking 72% turnout is expected.
In ordinary polling, pro-European voices strengthen. 75% now want Serbia in the EU and an amazing 82% think that EU is a positive thing. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Wow -- that would be a good turnout even in many established democracies...
And wow again -- those are ratings like in Spain, Ireland or Luxembourg... —Nightstallion 08:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Vojislav Kostunica said that he will not vote at the election and that he has absolutely not a slice of care for it. :D The Prime Minister said that. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. —Nightstallion 17:05, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
LOL, guess what's the largest concentration of Tadic's electorate? South of Kosovo. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:05, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Heh. —Nightstallion 13:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Muhammad al-Zanati

Is "Muhammad az-Zanati" for a reason I cannot change. Please help move it to its proper place. Therequiembellishere (talk) 05:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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After serious warnings from the doctor, PM Zeljko Sturanovic resigns, to go to intensive care. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:54, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Who'll replace him? —Nightstallion 19:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
What do you think's the most probable candidate (himself announced the possibility)? :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:17, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. That much for lack of immunity from Interpol prosecution. —Nightstallion 20:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Like I said, he is a political mastermind. The EU advised him not to run for President, so he won't. A shift of the PM is a far less "noticeable" thing, and he will use the following interim week to see the reaction. He is waiting carefully - he is the one who announced that he might be willing to take up the post. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
nods Indeed, yes. Will be interesting to see how this develops... When will the new PM be chosen? —Nightstallion 08:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
When Milo observes the foreign reactions. :) Btw, he told the press Svetozar Marovic will likely be Deputy Prime Minister. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Is that good or bad? —Nightstallion 17:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Momir Bulatovic, Milo Djukanovic and Svetozar Marovic was the triumvirate that governed Montenegro in the name of Slobodan Milosevic. Marovic was a political voicer of a singular unitarian Yugoslav centralist state with no inner divisions or segregations of any kind. During the war he was Milosevic's/Bulatovic's man for propaganda, editing news and media, most known for his theme "We are fighting a War for Peace" in which he described that if the Yugoslavian People's Army took martial control over all of Yugoslavia and deposed the "Ustashi illegal governments of Croatia and Slovenia", peace would be restored. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. —Nightstallion 13:46, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

heroe y pilar

solo decir que estuve viendote en trade bloc y entiendo q sos un heroe y pilar de wikipedia y su multilingùismo, y decirte q seras bien recibido en wiki-español (especialmente para explicar Austria y Europa como tu sabes hacerlo), ya te puse en mis favoritos de referencia; por otro lado para Template:Most active regional bloc recomiendo a Alemania (1er economia de europa, 3ra, 4ta o 5ta del mundo) como pais de referencia y razono que los 7 ya presentes, mas la ONU, Alemania e Indonesia es apropiado, equitativo y no excesivo. Soy "Fero" [11] en español (me parece q no estoy registrado en "wikinglish") i speak some english, anyway callmy when U wan-- (talk) 05:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC) i was tell U, i not logged here

War in Darfur

War in Darfur:maybe some new changes I made will be interesting to you --TheFEARgod (Ч) 17:05, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Well done. :)Nightstallion 13:46, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Tropical cyclones WikiProject Newsletter #13

Number 13, February 2, 2008

The Hurricane Herald

This is the monthly newsletter of WikiProject Tropical Cyclones. The Hurricane Herald aims to give a summary, both of the activities of the WikiProject and global tropical cyclone activity. If you wish to change how you receive this newsletter, or no longer wish to receive it, please add your username to the appropriate section on the mailing list. This newsletter covers all of January 2008.

Please visit this page and bookmark any suggestions of interest to you. This will help improve monitoring of the WikiProject's articles.

Storm of the month

Cyclone GeneCyclone Gene.JPG

Cyclone Gene formed on January 26 over the open south Pacific Ocean. It drifted southward, and strengthened into Tropical Storm Gene on January 28 as it moved across the Fijian archipelago. There, it brought heavy rainfall, which caused the worst flooding in several years. Half of the country was left without power, and the cyclone killed seven people in Fiji. The storm turned southwestward, developing a cloud-filled eye and quickly strengthening by the end of the month.

Other tropical cyclone activity

  • One tropical cyclone formed in the Western North Pacific Ocean west of The Philippines, which was analyzed by Japan Meteorological Agency as a depression; it tracked southwestward and did not significantly affect any land areas.
  • In addition to Cyclone Gene, Tropical Storm Elisa and Cyclone Fuma occurred in the South Pacific ocean during the month, along with three tropical depressions.
  • The only tropical cyclone in Australian region during the month was Tropical Cyclone Helen, which struck Australia.
  • Four tropical cyclones, three of which named, existed in the Southwest Indian Ocean during the month. The most notable was Cyclone Fame, which caused twelve deaths after striking Madagascar.

Member of the month

Cyclone barnstar

The January member of the month is Ajm81. A tropical cyclone editor since he first joined in October 2005, Ajm81 plays a vital role in the project. Unlike other editors, who mainly edit articles, Ajm81 maintains and updates the track maps across the project. We thank Ajm81 for his timely contributions, and may he have some well-deserved downtime after the last tropical cyclone report is released.

Storm article statistics

Grade Oct Nov Dec Jan
Featured article FA 30 31 33 33
A-Class article A 9 8 9 9
GA 106 109 112 114
B 78 82 86 99
Start 212 211 208 214
Stub 5 6 6 3
Total 440 447 454 472
ω 3.02 3.01 2.98 2.98
Less than B
49.3 48.5 47.1 46.0

Wikiwork and 1000 articles In January 2008, the WikiProject began using a system called Wikiwork, or ω. It weighs the overall quality of the project's articles, and a lower number means a greater total quality. The weighed ω, as used above, is a relative number that can be used to compare groups of this article. As of this publication, the relative ω of the project is 3.404, corresponding to between Start and B class. However, when limiting it solely to storm articles, the number drops to 2.98, which is slightly better than B class. During the month, a new statistics page was created.

Additionally, during the month, Mitchazenia pointed out that we received our 1,000th article with the creation of Cyclone Elita.

♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: This poll a result of Nikolic's faring in the first round of the presidential election. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

And, will it stay that way? I suppose if Nikolic wins the second round, yes, but if Tadic wins, there's still hope...? —Nightstallion 20:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
When Tadic wins, of course it will drop down below even the previous one. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I can only hope, then... —Nightstallion 20:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Western political analysts speculate Nikolic's victory and a spark of conflicts (but not 'armed' - like during the Cold War) that will (re)eat through the Balkans, most particularly Macedonia and Bosnia. Of course, no war will be fought near Serbia or in Europe outside Kosovo, but immense turbulence is expected, with more expelled non-Albanian refugees from Kosovo (up to 100,000) and Serbia becoming something close to Belarus, as the government collapses over whether to allow the EU to take over governance over Kosovo. The Russian Federation demonstrates with some militaristic demonstrations and Europe is once again heated.
This is the worst option. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:35, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
P.S. The proportion is in Tadic's favor 2:1 in DSS, 3:1 in NS and almost all LDP votes. SPS's case is 2.5:1 in favor of Nikolic. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
So we can still hope... keeps fingers crossedNightstallion 11:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I've sort of been following this, and I think you guys can breathe easy now. Therequiembellishere (talk) 23:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Aye, indeed. —Nightstallion 15:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

New format of OJ links


At the beginning of 2008, the OJ changed the file system which leads to the PDF files in the OJ. The URLs don't directly point to a PDF file, as you may have noticed. As a result, the little PDF icon is not displayed in the notes section of €2 commemorative coins. Since I know the cyphers that point directly to the PDF files on the EC servers, which is different from the link in the OJ table of contents, I can provide the direct link so that the little icon continues to be displayed. This is all cosmetic, so I'll leave the call in your hands.
Cheers. The €T/C 08:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea, feel free to make the links direct! —Nightstallion 11:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
It is done.
Cheers. The €T/C 10:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Great, thanks! —Nightstallion 15:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Currency naming convention

This issue has been raised again at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics/Style#Guidelines change proposal. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 17:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXIII (January 2008)
Project news
Articles of note

New featured articles:

  1. 1994 Black Hawk shootdown incident
  2. Battle of Musa Qala
  3. George Jones (RAAF officer)
  4. Italian War of 1542–1546
  5. Jim Bowie
  6. Józef Piłsudski
  7. Matanikau Offensive
  8. Offa of Mercia
  9. Suleiman the Magnificent
  10. USS Illinois (BB-65)

New featured lists:

  1. List of Knight's Cross recipients
  2. Order of battle at the Glorious First of June

New A-Class articles:

  1. 1960 South Vietnamese coup attempt
  2. Cold War
  3. Hans-Joachim Marseille
  4. Krulak Mendenhall mission
Current proposals and discussions
Awards and honors
  • Bwmoll3 has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his superior contributions to a variety of articles about the United States Air Force, including a great number of those dealing with wings and installations.
  • Bedford has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of the outstanding contribution he has made to the project's organization by going above and beyond the call of duty in tagging, assessing, and classifying a massive number of articles during the 2007 assessment drive.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

All done

...and with a very fine victory of Tadic in Vojvodina. Maja Gojkovic's political determination has given the final hit in Vojvodina, and it is no more a potentially SRS "core", but again a DS one. :)

Tomislav Nikolic won on Kosovo-Metohija, and Boris Tadic beat him in the City of Belgrade. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:57, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Great! :) Now let's see what happens with Kosovo... Do you think the government will fall over Kosovan independence? —Nightstallion 15:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and will SRS' popularity drop now...? —Nightstallion 16:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know, but for now it is stable. The DS-G17+ have for the first time enforced their governmental majority and Bozidar Djelic Deputy PM has become de facto Prime Minister. Vojislav Kostunica has accepted the reality and got the message well, going into the background shadows. DS now has a strong Head of State, controls the Government, and having the Speaker too, just lacks parliamentary majority (for the ratification of SAA or other...). There will definitely be restructuring, as there are already calls for Kostunica to resign and a new cabinet is formed with a DS PM and Kostunica only a Minister.
Well, the 44% accident surely. :) Tomislav Nikolic has announced stepping down from the head of the party btw. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:28, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
... let me just confirm that: There'll likely be a new government under a DS PM, Kostunica will cease his obstructions and Nikolic stepped down as party head...? That just made my day. :)Nightstallion 22:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
No, no; those are just calls. Kostunica accepted his political fall and has gone into the shadows, becoming that which I though he shall be after the parliamentary election - a figurative Minister with no real influence. There is however one last hope for him, and he shall not resign because of it - Kosovo. It is his one last chance, and when it declares independence he shall return as a critic of all Tadic's and attempt to restore at least some of his appeal. If there's no Kosovo problem, yes, surely he would've factually resigned too.
Nikolic has, contrary to his close men who announced victory, acted very sportly. He not only published the preliminary SRS results which showed that he was losing, but he immediately congratulated victory to Tadic and said that everything was fare and that he did all he could to win, losing because he's not supported by the majority of the people. Another thing important, all divisions were prevented, as Nikolic had called all those who voted for him to accept Boris Tadic as their president - and all that only after the preliminary results! :) Very unusual for him, but also very nice. He also announced, keeping his promises should he lose, that he will never ever take up any official administrative post, "leaving the party to the young" with the greatest result in its history. He will though, prepare ir for the forthcoming local elections.
In general, if there was no Kosovo issue, Serbia would probably now rush over any obstacle and progress with an amazing speed - everything is smiling, just waiting to be ruined. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 08:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
So, with the Kosovo issue...? —Nightstallion 10:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Potent source of power for the Radicals and a last chance for Kostunica. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:34, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
nods So, I have to keep my fingers crossed. What will happen after Kosovan independence? Early elections? —Nightstallion 10:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Considering that Kostunica has just used his powers to block the government and blackmailed Dulic to schedule a special session of the parliament for Monday, on which the patriotic secondary parliamentary majority shall adopt a resolution of official protest of EU mission of Kosovo and shall dismiss the treaty to be signed by Tadic the day after tomorrow, new parliamentary elections will likely be held together with the local on 11 May...this is a response for no consensus and for the DS-G17+ enforced majority in the Government. The DSS-NS ministers rushed with fury outside the parliament. The two (DS and DSS) are slowly collapsing even on small things, as the parliamentary boards also become a place where they cannot agree...
SRS, SPS, NS and LDP call for new parliamentary elections and the socialists for a transitional government of national unity. The good moment when yesterday investments increased and the RSD strengthened lasted for a mere day, much shorter than I expected. :( --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh. Well. Mh. What do you expect will come out of early elections? Especially regarding whether SRS-SPS-DSS-NS would have a majority, or whether DS-LPD-G17+-minorities could manage to govern...? —Nightstallion 19:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I guess the first. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Not good... What will happen then? —Nightstallion 23:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, unless there's some magical wand that can help solve the Kosovo issue. :) I bid that result because independence is announced before the elections.
Serbia will be in the position of Croatia from 1998 to 2000. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. And then? Early elections, or full four years of isolation until 2012? And then voters will hopefully elect a DS-LDP-G17+ majority government? —Nightstallion 23:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
And isn't there a chance that, if the period between Kosovan independence and the election is long enough, two months or so, that voters will be slightly less emotional about the issue? —Nightstallion 00:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
As I said, there's no chance for a DS-G17-LDP majority, not for a long time. I guess the country will be twisted in political disarray as DSS chooses which side to side with (DS or SRS).
Two months or so? After a problem anticipated for more than eight years? When in that time responsibility for the loss of Kosovo shall be thrown on Boris Tadic and Tadic alone, with him dragging down anyone who'd support him? During the peak of Serbia's international protests and the ICJ case regarding the matter. Ah, no. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
... not even after SRS-DSS-SPS will have ruined the country's reputation? Ah well, if Serbia does not elect a DS-led government after that, they deserve it, I'm afraid. —Nightstallion 11:26, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Now you're talking about distant future or...?
Yes, and that does not mean some outside forces too will not have to share their part of responsibility for that which is happening (same as US has to take up it's share for Saddam Hussein). Many today alarm, e.g. ex UK ambassador to Serbia, that the West has got a lot and given close to nothing in return. The Italian Foreign Minister also alarmed that so far there was practically not much use for Serbia from its pro-Western policies in the last 7 and a half years. I'm counting on USA's new policy, in which it is forcing countries to offer not only SAA, but full candidacy with the EU. It seems that they have the support of the presiding country (Slovenia) for that, and that might be a deal, in conjunction with several others, sufficient for a peaceful separation of Kosovo and Serbia (without destabilizing Bosnia and Herzegovina or the Republic of Macedonia). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

For instance, most international reactions were positive - except from EuroNews. Euronews reported that Serbia had chosen a European future regardless of what happens with Kosovo, and Nikolic immediately used that as a weapon. He blamed that it's the electorate's own choice for choosing the wrong side, which will further enable the destruction of Serbia - while he claims that his own election would've been a clear marking of NO to enemies of Serbia.

Statements like these go to very much damage to the Serbian political scene and, timed at the worst possible moment, are received very badly. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I was talking about the next three or four years, in which a SRS-DSS-SPS government could pretty much ruin Serbia's international reputation... Well, we'll see how it goes, I suppose. —Nightstallion 13:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
In Serbia the general opinion is that Serbia has no reputation to ruin in the first place, except locally in Montenegro and the Republic of Srbska... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd disagree... —Nightstallion 13:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
There are TWO groups of politicians are facing a very heavy choice: Some believe that saying NO to the West will be a warning to stop supporting secession of Kosovo, or even to want Serbia in the EU together with Kosovo. That the "OR group". A minor part of it are the supporters of Kosovo's independence.
The other is the "AND group". They oppose independence of Kosovo and at the same time see no possible conditioning on Serbia's EuroAtlantic integrations.
The matter is just which side shall win. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure I understood that, could you rephrase it? —Nightstallion 13:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
One group of politicians - the "AND" - headed by Boris Tadic, want both Kosovo AND unconditional EuroAtlantic integrations. The other group - the "OR" - want EITHER Kosovo OR the European Union membership, excluding one (led by Tomislav Nikolic and Cedomir Jovanovic). The SRS, DSS, SPS and NS hope that by saying no to Europe, Serbia won't lose Kosovo and will be able to keep it. They're prepared to sacrifice anything for it, earning them the reputation of national heroes in Serbia. Their political aim comes from the statement of many second-grade European political leaders who incline that Serbia has a choice - Kosovo or Europe. Well, these choose Kosovo. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Ah, okay. Do you really think this division is sensible, though? I'd have seen the camps as DS-LDP-G17 (for EU, no matter what) and SRS-SPS-DSS-NS (for Kosovo, no matter what)... —Nightstallion 14:26, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Well yeah, today. LDP had claimed support of sudden Tadic's moves and claimed that "we were all the time right" about Kostunica. It also supported DS+G17 in the parliament. And I still underline that, despite the "politicalness" of Kostunica, it's very improbable that DSS will soon day form a government with SRS (or either way around). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, LDP *were* right all along about Kostunica. ;) You think a DSS-SRS government is unlikely? Why? —Nightstallion 12:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Ideologically compatible, but morally unthinkable. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. So you think Kostunica *does* have morals? ;)Nightstallion 17:11, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Heh. Anyway, I'm counting that the international community will eventually accept the proposals of the EU, and force both sides to accept the Confederation of Serbia, based on the 2007 Berlin proposal. To my opinion, this solution is the most stable, and will, with joint forces, unite in the struggle against the extremist voices on both sides, as well as the entire hot-spot Balkan region, and stop all possibilities of creating precedents, as well as mark a significant mark in International Law. That's not what I truly expect, but I'm sincerely hoping for that one. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd tend to agree, but still -- that would only delay the independence, as a confederation is already a division into two separate entities (which remain united for now, cf. the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro...). I doubt Serbia would be more inclined to accept independence in ten or fifteen years... —Nightstallion 17:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't matter is something delays independence of anything, stops it, or starts it. What's matter is that no one suffers or gets killed anymore. Also let me remind you that circles of Serbia have already proposed autonomy within Serbia with a possibility of later conditional referendum of independence. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but that was not a serious offer, was it? —Nightstallion 19:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)


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Christian denominations

I'm stuck in a discussion at Talk:List of Christian denominations by number of members#Current version/2. I know that you are not a theologian, but I would like what you do think about at least issue B. Another user want to use sections with big titles (see his version) and I don't think it is appropriate, especially as there is no consensus. He started to edit that article and I don'tb agree with him on many things: as we are 1 to 1, what can we do about it? Obviously if you want to state your opinion also on the other issues, you are the most welcome! --Checco (talk) 17:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Currency naming guidelines change proposal survey

You have previously participated in a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics/Style. If you care, please go here to register your opinion on two proposals for currency naming guidelines. Thanks. — AjaxSmack 03:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Historical parties

Most of the parties/coalitions you re-introduced in the template seem to me very unrelevant. Take Popular Democracy... never heard about it. Or the Federation of Liberal Democtrats... small and insignificant party? Or the Pact for the Autonomies... it remaind on paper: no symbol, no meetings... nothing! These are only three examples. I respect you work and I don't want to convince you, but I think it is far better to have strict rules for the parties to enter in that template: at least a party should have scored at least 1% one time in a general election (or have had at least 5 MPs), as it is stated in List of political parties in Italy. You can lower these tresholds, but it is very difficult to consider relevant a party which never got more than 0.1% at the local level, no elected people and basically no organization. This is only an opinion obviously and you may not agree, but at least this can make you understand why I am not enthisiastic about the historical template and the complete one. Sorry about that. --Checco (talk) 12:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. Fair enough, okay -- I'm not against removing the completely irrelevant entries from the historical template. —Nightstallion 12:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
All right. Anyway, I don't think it is a problem if we do not share the same opinion on eberything, especially if we are not talking about controversial issues. The templates are not, in my view. --Checco (talk) 13:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Aye, indeed. —Nightstallion 13:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I wrote the article about a party which had some fortune in 1999-2001 but now is almost completely disbanded. I don't know exactly if it is still alive or not. It is definitely an interesting party (it had more than 10 MPs in 1999-2001) and it is listed in List of political parties in Italy, but, as it is almost dead now, I thought that it was better not to put it in any template. The best one would probably be the historical one, but as it may be still formally alive, I did not inserted it there. --Checco (talk) 15:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I put it into the "complete" template for now, but I'm not sure whether that was correct... —Nightstallion 15:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Never I... --Checco (talk) 15:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 08:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Icelandic referendum, 1944

Maybe your kind of thing. Haukur (talk) 23:04, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Certainly. Thanks! —Nightstallion 12:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

EU re-check needed

The layout is disrupted by the notorious editors again. You might want to check in from time to time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

What are you referring to? —Nightstallion 12:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Serbian total blockade

Euro-Atlantic integrations are blocked, there is no President as his inauguration is blocked, the Parliament is blocked and the Government is blocked. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

So, what will happen now? —Nightstallion 19:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
IF Kosovo proclaims independence within days, hard political crisis in which the practical two halves of the country will start up civil unrests on political basis...the division onto two halves from late 19th century continues still in Serbia, after more than a century. I sense that the other side's time might come again. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. —Nightstallion 16:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
With anti-Radical DSS Minister Dragan Jočić in hospital, severely injured for life, Kostunica has surrounded himself entirely with ultra-nationalists uber-obsessed with the Kosovo myth. This is why it is possible. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh and pre-term parliamentary elections will be held in September 2008. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Just made the 2nd round map by municipalities, check it out. By the way, what do you think about (me, of course) making another map by Districts, and one showing the world to show in which countries abroad who won? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:53, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
The maps sound like a good idea. Have early elections already been decided on? —Nightstallion 22:08, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Nah, but since now even DS supports them, they'll surely be held by the end of the year. Upon hearing that 17 February 2008 shall be the final date to initiate the process of Kosovo's independence, I think it'll be earlier though... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
With what likely result? Why does DS support them, why the others? —Nightstallion 22:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
No one can work with anyone anymore. The most probable result is DS losing, G17+ vanishing from the political scene, LDP strengthening a bit and DSS-NS very weakly hanging onto what they have, the SRS strengthening and the SPS remaining where they stand.
BTW the Serbian public is alarmed by several events. The former US ambassador the UN has spoken against unilateral proclamation of independence and seems to have taken a stance similar to that of Serbia (negotiations) and the other is the published Memorandum of the Albanian Academy of Sciences and Arts from 1998. The memorandum calls for strengthening and connecting the Albanians in the Balkans, and in precise double-nationalization or factual confederalisation of the Republic of Macedonia, independence of Kosovo, autonomy for the Montenegrin Frontier and recognition of the Albanian minority in Greece. What is alarming to the public is that this plan drafted a lot before all this is slowly but surely, coming to realization. Even to me the coincidence is shocking. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh... You can forget about Bolton, though, he's a complete lunatic. —Nightstallion 22:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
LOL, and a lunatic is misused to bend the picture to the Serbians by Serbia's authorities? :D What precisely is his story? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
He is one of Bush's creatures, but he's absolutely isolationist and simply a madman. —Nightstallion 11:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

At least some good coming out of this. Nebojsa Medojevic and Andrija Mandic basing their campaign on no-independence for Kosovo. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. How exactly is that good? Does it improve their chances? —Nightstallion 17:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Yep. :)
Although Filip Vujanovic opposes independence in term, he is cunningly completely avoiding the subject, and due to media control by the authorities (at least the inner ones) that question does not even get through. Medojevic explains that, like Tadic, we have to understand that most simply do not want to integrate back into the state, but that independence could have dire consequences for Montenegro, the region and beyond. Andrija Mandic spills out the usual "Kosovo-Metohija is the Serbian heart" (absolute no), while Srdjan Milic defines briefly a legal point of view that Montenegro cannot recognize an illegal unilateral declaration of independence, because it would "trample over Law and Order" and eventually, "itself as a State". --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 16:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Another thing which smiles nicely at Medojevic are his recent suites against the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The Montenegrin police had forcibly detained and prevented the opposition MPs to enter the parliament, so that the ruling coalition could solely decide and draw a consensus to several workers' strikes that are occuring. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:26, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
So he actually has a chance, then? —Nightstallion 16:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
There are no polls yet, but if the Serbs support him in the second round, like I said - he will win. :)
Heh. :)Nightstallion 17:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

P.S. If Serbia's request at the ICJ is accepted, this could save everything. To my opinion that's the only thing really needed to maintain stability. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

You mean, if the ICJ decides it's somehow legal, Serbia will accept it, and if the ICJ decides it's illegal, then the EU and the US will back down from helping Kosovo attain independence? —Nightstallion 17:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Roughly, yeah. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


The Serbian Ministers and Parliamentary Club Chiefs will spend the following days in Kosovo Serb enclaves. The Government has adopted a plan how to react, so far the only known are that it will withdraw all ambassadors from countries that recognize Kosovo's independence and maintain only formal diplomatic links (those in Germany, France, Italy, the Vatican and Belgium have already packed their bags). The National Assembly had adopted a resolution protesting and dismissing the acts of the PISG institutions, which have announced to declare independence on Sunday, 17h. The Government will also on the moment of declaration of independence possibly declare a State of Emergency, for the 4th time in modern history. There are severe protests already, one of the first major ones to follow is going to be tomorrow in front of the Slovenian embassy

The Kosovo Serb municipal boards have united into the Serbian Assembly of Kosovo and Metohija and have adopted a similar resolution and North Kosovo is preparing to peacefully reintegrate into the Republic of Serbia after the UNMIK leaves (which is packing its bags), whereas the terrorists/extremists of the Albanian National Army are in that case planning to martially take over North Kosovo. The Serbs are preparing massive protests in all Kosovo Serb enclaves, most are expected to gather.

On Nikolic's initiative Boris Tadic and Vojislav Kostunica are supposed to speak at a numerous gathering prepared by the Radicals, the State is supposed to finance the people to come from all over Serbia. Their goal is to gather 1,000,000 people in one location and show national unity. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. And all of that will lead to what, besides lots of trouble? —Nightstallion 18:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
They think sending a strong national message, compared to ambiguousness so far, will give a clear message to the West that the entire Nation does not want Kosovo's secession.
Also, I forgot one thing. The Kosovo Serbs had just formed parallel institutions, and will hold local elections parallel with those in the rest of Serbia on 11 May, for the first time after the 1990s. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. Fair enough, but I'm not quite sure that'll be a good idea in the long run... Ah, we'll see. —Nightstallion 19:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The patriotic forces further strengthen as three plans for an assassination attempt of Slobodan Milosevic and various other state leaders by the West from 1992 are published in Serbia. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
So, Tadic has given in to Kostunica, it seems? —Nightstallion 20:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Nope, but what we're seeing down in Serbia is a repetition of that which happened during the NATO bombing campaign. The officials receive (whomever they are) strong total support from the people, all of them cooperate and become united and the 'most opposition' circles go silent. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I suppose Ceda is being quiet now as he'd face strong hostility otherwise? And what will be the result? Cementing the disbelief in Kosovo's independence? Or finally acceptance at some level? —Nightstallion 09:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Correct, and I think he is also worried about the general situation.
As for another announced reaction, Serbia will put sanctions to Kosovo and cut off all supplies. This a hugely tragic event, because Kosovo is completely dependent on Serbia - Kosovars are heated by Serbian fuel, they spend Serbian energy and they drink Serbian water. The PISG parliament is holding an emergency session to find alternate ways to find sources, closeness of most of its border presenting yet another problem. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
The next problem is that a reliable B92 source from Brussels had told that the USA are hardly pressing the countries to recognize independence of Kosovo, offering them various privileges (e.g. money) and even threatening them with sanctions. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Which countries are they putting pressure on? Any news on when the ICJ case will likely be filed? —Nightstallion 15:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Slovenia and the countries which have declared that they won't recognize independence of Kosovo. The Serbian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has gathered assurances of over 100 world countries that oppose Kosovo independence (as a response to Thaci's claim that over 100 will recognize), including Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus and Spain from the EU, next to non-EU Russia in Europe itself. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Seriously? I highly doubt that. Mh. Well, I'm personally quite curious to see what the division will be like -- Taiwan-like (only a couple dozen countries), SADR/Palestine-like (between a third and two thirds of the countries) or Israel-like (all countries except for a couple dozen). —Nightstallion 17:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
It actually depends on time. Most countries (like Croatia) have stated that they won't rush with recognition. That means that the initial moment is that it is found in the case between the 1st and the 2nd, and in 5 or 10 years finds its self between the 2nd and 3rd, perhaps even with a seat in the UN. Time is the factor. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
nods I hope everything turns out alright in the end... And above all, I hope there'll be no violence, I hope the Kosovan Albanians will recognise how lucky they are to have been supported by so much of the international community, and I hope the Serbs and Kosovan Serbs will grow to accept the new facts without becoming bitter or turning away from the EU... —Nightstallion 22:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Popularity of EU falls greatly (note: still a weak majority though). Popularity of a martial solution to Kosovo has increased 10 times (note: still insignificant minority).
Minister for Kosovo-Metohija (DSS) publicly stated that Serbia should not enter the EU. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. Well, we'll see. —Nightstallion 10:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


Milo Djukanovic nominated PM. :))) And Svetozar Marovic shall be Deputy PR and Minister of Foreign Affairs at the same time. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

When will he be confirmed? (And why is that a reason for :))) and :D? I think it's rather :(...) —Nightstallion 18:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm not sure if you'd understand, but the most popular humor over in the part of Europe, because of you-know-which historical and political consequences is black humor. This is not even "if it weren't sad it would've been funny", to the Balkaners this indeed is pathetically ridiculous. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I like black humour too, but this is just sad in my eyes... —Nightstallion 19:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
By the way, if you didn't know, this shall be his 5th term. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I had read that. When will he be confirmed? —Nightstallion 19:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Everything is prepared. His cabinet was supposed to be sworn in the parliament today, but that will occur within the following days. BTW political analysts claim this is a political master-mind movement, in order to promote the DPS candidate at the presidential election. Svetozar Marovic had also agreed to pay Madonna 5,000,000 dollars for her singing at the Montenegrin coast, also a standard way during political campaigns in MNE. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
So, likely in the coming days? What is the likely outcome of the presidential election, are there any polls? —Nightstallion 19:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Nope, but surely there will be several domestic depicting Vujanovic's victory (a result of DPS's political control and not true polling), we will have to wait foreign polls (which seem to favor the opposition all the time, and always be wrong). A general estimate is Vujanovic first and Medojevic the second, but the 2nd round will be a hard battle, if the Serbs support Medojevic - he will have the charisma and popular support, while Vujanovic shall have state/media control and Madonna. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
nods Well, we can only hope. —Nightstallion 20:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


I uploades some images from, but I understand that I made a mistake or something. Can you help me to solve this problem and to upload them in the correct way. The images are: Image:Liga Veneta Logo.jpg, Image:Lega Lombarda Logo.jpg‎ and Image:Lega Nord Logo.jpg‎. --Checco (talk) 17:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Particularily I have a problem with Image:Lega Nord Logo.jpg: I made some mistakes, but now, despite having uploaded it again correctly, the image has a problem with licensing. --Checco (talk) 17:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh? What seems to be the problem? —Nightstallion 11:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
In Image:Lega Nord Logo.jpg there is no licensing, while in Image:Lega Lombarda Logo.jpg and Image:Liga Veneta Logo.jpg yes. Why? --Checco (talk) 15:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. No idea, but I don't think it's a problem as long as the fair use thingy is there. —Nightstallion 17:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok, fair enough. Good resolution too. --Checco (talk) 21:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Template:Election table

Hello again. I was wondering what your opinion on this template is as you use it for election results. I just find it quite ugly when it is transcluded into articles (especially now it has a very large font size heading), and prefer to use in-article tables (e.g. Gambian general election, 1992#Parliamentary election). пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, you shouldn't do that -- the whole idea of the template is to transclude the info in Elections in ... articles and others like that... We can, of course, change the template, though, if you dislike something about it. —Nightstallion 12:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
But I was just wondering what is the point in the whole election table thing? Aren't templates only needed for navigation? пﮟოьεԻ 57 14:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
No, they're also needed if you prefer not to have to update twenty articles whenever something changes -- for instance, when a new election is held and you want to have the results table in four articles, you only have to update the template to update the results in all four articles. That's actually the MAIN point of templates. —Nightstallion 17:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I can see why they are used for the most recent election (as that may be transcluded to the election, Elections in, Parliament of.. articles. However, for elections that are not the most recent, wouldn it be prefereable to subst it onto the election article page and delete the template? пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
No, because it doesn't hurt to have the templates, either way. —Nightstallion 18:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXI - February 2008

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Book collection.jpg
The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXI - February 2008
Project news
  • We have had a solid month with an increase of project tagging work. We now have a bit of a backlog of assessments needed.
Member news
  • The project has currently 305 members, 6 joined & 0 leavers since the start of January 2008.
  • The member page has been reorganized with it being noted that many member are largely inactive. However this is not unusual for WikiProjects and we have a very loyal core of editors who work diligently away often without recognition.
Other news
  • Many book cover images were tagged for deletion because of missing or incorrect fair use rationales in January. Several notes on this subject were placed on the General Forum.
Task force news
Novel related news
Current debates
  • The short story taskforce talk page has a discussion relating to the (non)inclusion of articles on stories by well known authors. Find the debate here.
From the Members

Welcome to the Twenty First issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

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Collaboration of the Month
Newsletter challenge

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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Turkey EU logo.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Turkey EU logo.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 02:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Template:Zimbabwean elections

I think the flag situation is getting a bit much on this template. Would you support removing all but the ones on the heading lines? I am fully expecting a revert from you-know-who quite soon! пﮟოьεԻ 57 10:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh, okay. (He's left Wikipedia, BTW, AFAIK.) —Nightstallion 10:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I've made the change. We'll see what happens. пﮟოьεԻ 57 10:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


An user is rating all the articles about Italian political parties. Can I ask you on what basis he is doing this kind of evaluation? --Checco (talk) 14:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Simply the quality of the article and the perceived importance of the subject; if you disagree, you can change the rating, and if he disagrees with your new rating, you'll have to discuss, I suppose. —Nightstallion 11:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
But, is it possible not to have the rating of people from a project that rarely works on those article? I find very strange the fact that someone introduces a rating: who is he for doing it? --Checco (talk) 12:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Anyone can do it, the rating system is just for internal evaluation. It's not really a big deal. —Nightstallion 12:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
You'right, I could live with it. --Checco (talk) 12:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Good. :)Nightstallion 12:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 08:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Opinion polls

When you asked me about sources of opinion polls, I forgot to give you this link: Every opinion poll and everything happens in Italian politics is annoted there. --Checco (talk) 15:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Zoran Žigić

Please see Talk:Zoran Žigić --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 18:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

A question

I need some information on the plebiscite held in southern Austria, which resulted in the decision to stay in the country. What can you tell me? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Off the top of my head: There were two zones in which there would have been a plebiscite, but as the southern zone of the two voted in favour of staying with Austria (due to the fact that at least a large minority of the Slovenian-speaking people voted in favour of Austria), the plebiscite in the northern zone was not held. If you can tell me what you need to know, I'm sure I'll be able to find information on it...? —Nightstallion 15:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
So most Austrian Germans+large number of Slovenes gave a clear majority at the plebiscite?
I'm in precise interested about the rules, if you know anything about it, it'd be nice (age, women's suffrage or not, you know what I mean,...). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, exactly.
I'm fairly certain it was all people 18 years or older, but I'll have a look. —Nightstallion 16:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo (again)

Massive protests in Belgrade and Podgorica are being prepared. NATO general and former KFOR commander Fabio Mini from 2002 to 2003 speaks against Kosovo independence and links it primarily to mafia demands. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

nodsNightstallion 18:01, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
First reactions: Serbian Prime Minister very fiercely and nationalistically objects the Declaration of Independence. Serbian President calls for peace and stability, in an attempt to regather the whole situation and announced diplomatic appeals to international institutions. Very violent and aggressive protests in Belgrade (with injured people) mostly around American and Slovenian embassies, property destroyed on several locations, organized by ultra-right and patriotic/nationalist circles. Russia strongly criticizes declaration and announces measures. Taiwan greets declaration of independence of Kosovo. Abkhazia, South Ossettia and Nagorno-Karabakh announce intensified demands for independence. Cyprus and Spain protest and declare against independence of Kosovo. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
P.S. Made that map. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Seems the destruction is greater than previously expected. Whole streets have been raised and it seems Brazil's embassy has been demolished (waiting confirmation). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Nikolic's call has been answered. The government and non-LDP parliament will in Thursday next week hold the most massive meeting in Serbian history. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
They've even damaged LDP HQ and Slovenian embassy. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. Not good. —Nightstallion 09:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
What's Austria's reaction? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, Federal Chancellor Gusenbauer has stated more than once that he's in favour of recognition. Generally, the conservative ÖVP is more in favour of recognition and the social-democratic SPÖ slightly more wary, but I expect recognition somewhere with the first waves. There were reportedly lots of jubilant Albanians and Kosovans on the streets yesterday (didn't see or hear anyone where I was, though) and there were reportedly minor clashes between Kosovan and Serbian immigrants in one of the outer districts with a few stones thrown, but nothing serious; I've also just read that Serbia has already withdrawn its ambassador from Vienna. Could you keep me up-to-date on the events? When's the EU foreign ministers meeting? What will happen now? Is it true that Russia is trying to put pressure on the eastern European EU member states not to recognise Kosovo? —Nightstallion 10:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
List of states expected to recognise the Republic of Kosovo. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I've got the article on my constant watchlist for the next weeks. —Nightstallion 10:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The Foreign Ministers are meeting. There's no agreement and most Ministers are silent and only the Spanish Foreign Minister was noticed due to his firm opposition to independence. The next meeting is in Thursday. In the following day UNSC and Council of Europe will secede. I didn't hear about Russia except that it has convinced Belarus (duh) and is trying to convince Ukraine to oppose too. It seems as if there is also some influence onto Hungary (weak) and Bulgaria (successful). Russia and China seem to be also trying to formally draw India, which before declared against independence of Kosovo, including an array of minor non-European countries. No, Serbia hasn't withdrawn ambassadors from any country yet. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 11:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


At least one good thing. The Bosniacs, Serbs and Croats stand united for the very first time in history. They have agreed that they will work together to make the two entities and three peoples together and to work for the benefit of the entire country, and B-H will never recognize independence of Kosovo. There are some extremist right-wing Serb nationalist protests demanding an independent Republic of Srbska, but that's insignificant. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

nodsNightstallion 09:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


SNP leaders spent the declaration in Kosovo. The Serbs organie a massive protest in Podgorica for 24 February. Andrija Mandic will speak; he gains immensely on the popularity due to the declaration. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

nods What about Nebojsa? —Nightstallion 12:09, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Current events in Greece

Have you heard anything, I wonder, about what is going on in our bustling little corner of Europe? The last three months have been incredible even for our standards: beginning with uninsured Indian "guests", we continue with dying archbishops and religious back-stabbings for the first course, suicide attempts connected to DVD scandals and millions of euros' worth of cheques seized on the Franco-Swiss border for the main course, and we finish with a dessert of unprecedented political situations and an upsetting of many of our familiar balances. Instead of mints, Olympic-flavoured bribes from Siemens will be handed around the table, and coffee will be replaced by a potent seismologic mix. I can fill you in, and I really believe that you will find at least some of all these delicacies interesting to your palate, but I should first like to know what you have already tasted. What exactly are you aware of, and what is an involved European's view of The Incredible Greek Circus? Waltham, The Duke of 23:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I've heard that the Archbishop is dead (and replaced by a more moderate and less politically motivated successor...?), but apart from that, not much... I'd be very glad if you'd care to elaborate what's been happening. —Nightstallion 09:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Certainly. We can begin with these:
  • The Archbishop
    • Although Christodoulos was fairly young, it seems that he had neglected his health, leading to his illness only being noticed in the summer of 2007. A war of sorts broke out between the physicians taking care of him, especially after the failed liver transplant attempt in Miami. One doctor, in particular, found himself targeted by the others for his decisions and influence, and was removed from the medical team. The Greek media had a field day, hosting doctors who would comment on both Christodoulos's situation (which he himself insisted in making public) and the conflict amongst the doctors. After a few weeks, the Archbishop, probably having accepted his imminent death, returned to Greece, where his health, after a brief improvement, kept deteriorating.
    • Both at this stage, and around the time of the surgery, rumours persistent about his succession, and about deals between bishops and factions supporting specific candidates. It was quite unseemly, I must tell you. Especially since most journalists here have the bad habit of appearing to be experts on more or less everything, depending on the current events. The situation turned even uglier after the Archbishop's death (and state funeral, which I watched on television; we don't get to see such ceremonies often here and it was very interesting, although many Athenians begged to differ, stuck in traffic as they were). Some bishops were almost running election campaigns, something unprecedented, and we even heard of accusations of extortion by a candidate. We also got to see clergy hosted in television shows, giving their opinion on what they would like to see in the next Archbishop. Although it is nice seeing these kind and learned people on television for once, in contrast to, well, the rest of our local star system, it is not really proper, is it?
    • As expected, Bishop Ieronymos of Thebes, was elected (in the second round). It is considered something of a mistake that he was not elected ten years ago; he was implicated in a minor financial scandal back then, which, according to many, cost him the election. It was later shown that he had nothing to do with it, so it is like a wrong being corrected. He has a lot of charity work to display, has excellent relations with the Ecumenical Patriarchate (in contrast to his predecessor), and has nothing to do with the mass media, with politics, or with the rich life Christodoulos was sometimes accused of leading. The man actually lived in a monastery up to now... It was expected that he would be elected exactly because people in the Church believed a turn should be made away from some of the aspects of Christodoulos's term as Archbishop (especially the more controversial ones), towards a more spiritual model of leadership. (I suggest that you should have a look at the deceased's article for more information about his life and works; a death can work miracles for an article in Wikipedia, even if it means that WP:LIVING no longer applies.)
  • Earthquakes
    • A surge of seismic activity has been noted lately in the area of southwest Peloponnese, with many earthquakes above 6 degrees in the Richter scale taking place. Scientists are worried that this may trigger other faults in the area. Thanks to the depth of the epicenter and its distance from the shore, only minor damages were inflicted. That's not the point, though.
    • Every time we have to suffer the disagreements between seismologists, on each occasion supporting different theories about the course of events and its projected outcome and "battling" live on television whenever given the opportunity. Worse, there is this "VAN group", a team of scientists led by Dr Panagiotis Varotsos who claim to have developed a way to predict earthquakes, and once in a while reveal (after the event) that they had foreseen the tremor but were ignored by the authorities they had notified. These authorities usually state either that they knew nothing or that the letters were too vague. Go figure. The VAN group, who gained prominence after the great 1999 Athens earthquake, say that they've been sending (for some time now) the data they had collected to Cornell University, as they would not be taken seriously in Greece. I wonder what the Americans think about this.
  • On a more recent note, a wave of bad weather put the country in the freezer for the weekend, leaving several areas in the south under a thick layer of snow; most problems occurred in Attica, Euboea, Crete, and the islands of the Aegean, as well as Chalcidice. The authorities were more prepared than usual, but even three days thereafter many roads remained closed, and many schools could not open because their courtyards were still covered by ice. Not to mention the power cuts in numerous mountain villages, most of them already blocked off. A person died as a result of the cold (an elderly woman); we should be happy nothing worse has happened.
Let's discuss these first and then we can move on to the more complex issues. Sorry for the delay, by the way; I've only now finished with my exams. Waltham, The Duke of 16:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like the new archbishop is a major improvement, then? Still, the division between state and church is really bad in Greece, even if the current archbishop is smart enough not to use his political influence, right? —Nightstallion 18:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Right... The government is slowly (but steadily) attempting to put a few measures in place that will improve the separation of Church and State, measures which Christodoulos had strongly opposed, like ceasing the practice of having priests visit schools once a week to facilitate students' confession. I support such measures myself; I have no idea, however, about what Ieronymos intends to do. I am an optimist, and he looks like an open-minded man.
I shall be back tomorrow; it seems that I am unable to sustain a proper conversation. You see, I might have finished with my exams, but there is the nightmarish process of enrolling for the next semester's "labs", and my schedule is not shaping well at all. Anyway, see you. Waltham, The Duke of 18:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
nods At least something, yeah. Any idea whether there's a chance the talks on Macedonia's name will have success any time soon?
I know exactly what you mean -- luckily, up to now I've managed to get my schedule right just in time, but it's nearly always a lot of work and worries... —Nightstallion 18:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I have just emerged from a traumatic experience, wherein a crowd of about 150 students were trying to enroll for three labs in a hot and smelly classroom. Add to that the scheduling conflicts that keep cropping up, the fact that I haven't slept for 36 hours, and a laptop hanging from my shoulder... Yes, the enrolling system is quite primitive here. I hear that it will be electronic from the next semester, as in other faculties; one can only hope.
As far as the Macedonian issue is concerned, things appeared to be going a little well... And then boom, a big fat nothing. From the looks of it, Matthew Nimetz is finally admitting his failure and is taking the negotiations down the Cyprus road: direct meetings between the Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the two countries. The differences are hardly reconcilable: Greece supports a composite name with a geographical designation, to be used for all international relations of FYROM, and probably involving a modification of their constitution; they want a name with no such designation, to be used only between our bi-lateral relations and in international organisations, without using it in their other bi-lateral relations or printing it on their passports. The international community obviously doesn't share Greece's sensitivity over the issue (especially after the country's old, harder stance), and, in general, I cannot easily see this matter end well... For us.
On an irrelevant sidenote, the succession of strong earthquakes continues, triggering a growing hysteria amongst the populace; the reports by certain seismologists that a great earthquake is imminent does everything but help. Maybe it's our fault that an earthquake took place this morning in... England. Well, that was a surprise. Combine it with the paradoxical fact that people are actually burning the Dannebrog (and have been for a loooong time), and you have two more signs of why we are about to witness the end of the world.
Seriously, who would have expected five years ago that people would be burning the flag of Denmark? Waltham, The Duke of 14:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, don't believe it gets better with an electronic system: The rather rare soft skills courses, of which we need 3 ECTS points worth, regularily have about 400 interested people for about 50 or 80 places -- you can imagine that it's simply a glorified kind of lottery to determine who gets the points; if you're lucky and hit "reload" exactly at the right time and can enter the course of your choice quickly enough, you're in; at one minute past midnight (or whenever the enrollment starts), all places are gone usually. sighs
I personally believe that either way would be a fine solution, but I'm convinced that they need a solution *FAST*. On the other hand, not having a solution for the next ten years or so will eventually see almost everyone recognise Macedonia under its constitutional name... Do you think Greece would be willing to give in at some point? Or not? —Nightstallion 14:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

(de-indent) Give in? You must be joking. It would be a political suicide. Even if they do nothing (and they are arguably doing something), they cannot afford to let people see that. Most Greek Macedonians feel very strongly about the name, and most members of parliament from that area only begrudgingly follow the government's line on the matter. A referendum is out of the question, of course, if a compromise will ever be reached; hell, even in parliament it can be defeated, with the government holding no more than 151+1 out of the 300 seats.

The situation in the Balcans is not getting any better, anyway, and you know it as well as I do. The Macedonian dispute in one hand, leading to displays of fanaticism on both sides (particularly on their side, and this is no bias; it's their name, after all, so it is to be expected), and the Kosovo issue on the other, with riots and demonstrations all over. The Russians are siding with the Serbians, threatening to lead to an escalation, border (or "border") stations are burnt, and the punchline is that Greece is suddenly a hero in Serbian eyes for not recognising Kosovo's independence. As if we didn't have our own reasons to do that. (cough Thrace cough Muslim minority cough)

I wonder if they remember that (at least a part of) the NATO land forces were dropped off in Pieria before taking the road for Serbia and Kosovo. But, again, they are actually glad that Milošević was deposed. The only (marginally) popular American intervention of the decade, I suppose.

It is also strange how all the old territorial claims came back into the limelight at the same time. The revival of the Great Albania vision (including half of Epirus) has co-incided with the crucial moment for the Macedonian dispute, and the wider exposure of the Great Macedonia vision still alive (that one takes up not just Greek Macedonia but also half of Thessaly). And don't think for a moment that there aren't people here still wishing to reclaim Constantinople; you should hear a couple of our bishops prieching, with the Metropolitan of Thessaloniki being the ring-leader. Nobody would dare shut him up, I can tell you. Waltham, The Duke of 14:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

nods True enough, yeah. What's Greece's minority problem exactly, BTW? —Nightstallion 15:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I see you answered already. I have reviewed my message, so you might want to read through it once more. It's not a very polite thing to do, I know, but I was not satisfied by it (and spelt Kosovo with two esses); I hope it doesn't contradict your reply now.
Anyway, there is a muslim minority in Thrace, which Turkey insists that Greece should recognise as a Turkish minority. There are territorial claims there as well, with part of the muslim population there wishing to unite with Turkey. There is the Turkish Union of Xanthi, an illegal organisation flourishing in Thrace and promoting such attitudes, and there are even cases of candidates for parliament and local government supporting their cause in secret, enjoying the backing of the two great political parties and following their positions in public. The situation there can get tense at times, with the political parties unwilling to do anything (not to mention the government's practice of successive "favours" to Turkey), and bullying occasionally happens; the other day a Greek elementary school teacher had her arm broken by people from the Turkish consulate for teaching her pupils about Greek history and customs—they said "Get away from here! This is Turkey!" The saddest thing is that the (Greek) mayor there supported them instead of her, in order to appeal to his main audience. Really, politics in this country can easily turn anyone's stomach. Waltham, The Duke of 15:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. And I thought Austrian politics was bad. —Nightstallion 16:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, you know what they say: "The grass is always greener at the other side." Waltham, The Duke of 16:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, in this case I'd say the political grass seems pretty black to me in Greece... While in Austria, it's only a disgusting brown. —Nightstallion 16:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
In this case you may as well feel better hearing these. But pray tell me about the situation in your country, in case I feel better (though certainly not better than you). A brief break, you know, until I prepare the summary of the DVD scandal for posting in one of the following days. There's a lot to it, see. Waltham, The Duke of 16:12, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, there's a big political scandal in the Interior Ministry -- mistakes in investigating cases, political interventionism, pretty much everything you can think of. The grand coalition between SPÖ and ÖVP is at an absolute deadlock, as the SPÖ has now (finally) decided to support an investigatory parliamentary committee to look into the scandal -- which the ÖVP, likely the main culprit, isn't happy about... Noone knows whether they'll still keep the coalition going despite all this (they've failed to achieve anything at all in the last year) or whether there'll be something else... —Nightstallion 16:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, dear. Lucky us, then, for there is not a chance in a million for a coalition of any kind to form here. As far as the investigations are concerned, once in a while one of the two big parties will try to have one started for the other, but there will never be sufficient support, or there will but both paries have something to hide so nothing really happens. Parliamentary investigations, as opposed to those conducted by prosecutors, is a tool that ought to be useful, yet isn't at all effective, for many and different reasons. Reform is needed, but neithere are there any good ideas nor is there the will on anyone's side to take any kind of political risk.
Which is a pity, because we have nothing but scandals here. If it weren't for television satire (a long-standing tradition in Greece), we should be doomed. Waltham, The Duke of 16:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 17:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

2 euro commemorative topic

Hi there. Any reason why you undid my changes in order to center all commemorative coins of 2008? Just wondering if there could be a browser issue, that after my changes is not shown properly in certain browsers. Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:09, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

What you did was to remove the fixed width of the image columns -- I saw no reason for that, as it's better to have a fixed width for the columns in my experience and opinion; does having a fixed width make the images fail to center for you? The <center> tags should center the image no matter whether there's a fixed column width or not... —Nightstallion 10:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The image columns must remain at a fixed width so that there is consistency with regard to the size of the column- which has nothing to do with whether the image centers or not; the <center> tags do center the images no matter the width of the column.The €T/C 10:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


USA didn't recognize Kosovo and will follow its UN partners (regarding your map). Just President welcomed it.

Spain and Cyprus block EU common resolution for independent Kosovo. Cyprus fiercely refuses and Spain demands a resolution of opposition of the declaration and support of Serbia's territorial integrity. It seems EU will give up on a common move. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:25, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Seriously? Ouch. —Nightstallion 15:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
What about the map? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Already corrected. —Nightstallion 15:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Also, Serbian TV announced that Russia and Serbia are on the initiative, expecting Belarus, Cuba, Venezuela, India and South Africa to join those orange ones. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 15:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
France, Belgium and Britain recognized. Germany and Italy will follow. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
You missed the Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The Constitutional Court of Serbia decided that the Declaration is against the Constitution of Serbia, UNSCR 1244, the European Convention of 1990, the European convention on self-determination from 2007, the Helsinki 1975 Act and the United Nations Charter from 1945. The Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs has sent suites to Hashim Thaci, Fatmir Sejdiu and Krasnici. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Should North Cyprus be on the map? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
nods So much will hinge on the ICJ reaction?
No, because it's not seen as a subject of international law, unlike Taiwan. —Nightstallion 17:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Nothing on ICJ it would seem.
How come? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
P.S. Italy didn't recognize yet actually. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
For instance, Taiwan is a member of a number of organisations (WTO, IOC, ...), while Northern Cyprus is not a member state of anything.
I'll let someone else do the updating and edit-warring for now, actually... —Nightstallion 17:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it's a member of the Organization of the Islamic Conference. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it's not. It's an observer. —Nightstallion 18:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I know, but even that's something - no? :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but it's on a different level of recognition. Besides, after the second round of elections in Cyprus next Sunday, I hope we won't have to worry about Northern Cyprus too much longer -- both candidates are strongly pro-reunification. :)Nightstallion 19:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

B92 news report. Another thing that enrages the Serbs greatly. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I can understand that, yes. —Nightstallion 18:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
According to official history taught and told in Kosovo, the Monuments in question have been built by Catholic (before Christianity) Illyrian-Albanians and the Churches have been temporarily taken over by the short-lived Serbian one or two centuries partial rule of the region. This unique "Roman-Byzantine-Gothic-Albanian style" continued to live on forth across the centuries and Albanian culture blossomed until in 1912 Serbia conquered Kosovo and systematically tried to exterminate the entire Albanian nation from that moment to today. Most Serbs living today were moved to Kosovo by Slobodan Milosevic, and a minority are descendants from the 20th century colonists.
Something I expected, but still hard to actually believe. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. —Nightstallion 19:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

First Serbian embassy withdrawn - US. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

nodsNightstallion 20:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

To tell the truth I find it at least a little strange why the Albanian team constantly refused the Serbian proposal - especially the last. Over two and a half year Serbia has amended its proposal further and further to favor Albanian demands, but it was all in vain. Remember the very last one? The one which guaranteed de facto independence of Kosovo and membership in ALL international organizations except the UN? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but I still can understand them -- after all, less than a decade ago the Serbian army waged WAR against Kosovo, so I can understand why they wouldn't want to live in the same state any more, even if it would have been in name only... —Nightstallion 21:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Understandably the other way around too, yeah. But in Serbia the view is seen that Kosovo waged a war against Serbia.
BTW (answer to your question) Germany will recognize in Wednesday. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that's always a problem with contemporary history -- it's often quite difficult to be sure whether one, the other, or BOTH interpretations are correct...
Yeah, I know, that's why I doubted whether putting FIN and DEU in the first list was correct. —Nightstallion 21:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC) only question is what about the others? There are the Khurds, Serbs of Croatia and quite a number of similar occasions to the Kosovar Albanians.
LDP warns Serbia to quickly recognize Kosovo and criticizes controversial alarming statements of UK ambassador to the UN, who aggressively made very threatening statements that Kosovo Serbs should immediately recognize the country and that "Pristina must and will rule all of Kosovo". LDP experts also expect North Kosovo to remain in Serbia. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:22, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I almost agree with that. —Nightstallion 22:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
And really, what do you think about those other situations? The Kurds and Assyrians?
P.S. The Beovision has been canceled. It'd be stupid to see Serbia not contest at the very Eurovision it hosts... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm in favour of independence.
So it'll be held somewhere else, then? —Nightstallion 22:38, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
President Boris Tadic showed anger for the very first time in his life and stated that Serbia will officially not consider any country which has recognized Kosovo, or will in the future, a friend. Withdrawal of non-US embassies is about to follow.
What do you mean? Why would EuroVision not be held? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. Not good.
I thought that was what you were saying regarding Beovision and Eurovision? —Nightstallion 22:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Well there's no reason why it won't be in the Belgrade Arena, it's just that BeoVision has been canceled.
And this is the final moment of that retirement I talked half a year ago. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh? I don't know what BeoVision is, I'm afraid...?
So you'll stop contributing to Wikipedia now? :( :( :(Nightstallion 22:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Beovizija. Contest for the Serbian contester.
Goodbye and all the best wishes to you! --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't quite understand -- BeoVision is cancelled? So Serbia won't contest the Song Contest it hosts? ???
So you'll completely leave Wikipedia? Very sorry to hear that... I also wish you all the best! —Nightstallion 22:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps it'll reschedule and reorganize it later. Countless other festivals and plays have been canceled. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
nods I can understand that...
Don't you want to at least have a look at Wikipedia once in a while? ;)Nightstallion 23:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


Can you address the comments on Image talk:Kosovo relations.png? There are some changes that have to be made that are commented there. Thanks! SpencerT♦C 22:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Will do. —Nightstallion 22:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Found more...listed. Nice job! SpencerT♦C 00:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Excellent work in the map Nightstallion! Just a correction, Puerto Rico is under U.S. jurisdiction, all federal decisions applies to Puerto Rico. This means that the island should be Blue, same with Guam, Northern Marianas, US Virgin Islands and American Samoa, all US territories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:00, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right. —Nightstallion 16:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


As I moved "Democratic Union (Italy) to "Democratic Union for Consumers", can you move "Democratic Union (Italy, historical)" to "Democratic Union (Italy)"? --Checco (talk) 08:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Nightstallion 09:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


SDP supported Vujanovic. Vujanovic scheduled talks with parliamentary leaders regarding the new Prime Minister. The Liberals and SNP won't talk. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 09:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

nods When will the official inauguration be? —Nightstallion 09:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
(I forgot about MontePres, that still remains my thing to do ;)
Most things here in the Balkans in general have been delayed because of Kosovo, so it's probably to be late a week or so. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
(Glad to hear that. ;))
nodsNightstallion 11:32, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

You could draw in Libya and Burkina Faso. Some more countries are worried because secessionist groups over the world intensify their demands.

Serbs demolish border control points on Kosovo to Serbia and Montenegro. No KFOR or UNMIK personal were injured.

First three ethnically motivated attacks against Serbs in Kosovo occur.

Serbia withdraws ambassadors from all countries that recognized and send protest letters. Boris Tadic said that Kosovo will have less than it could have because it won't be accepted into most and all relevant international organizations (firstly lodged a protest at OSCE). Later, Serbia plans to expel ambassadors of foreign countries in Belgrade that recognize Kosovo. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

There's no source for either of those two countries. —Nightstallion 19:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Serbia sues to ICJ states which recognized independence. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Finally! Source? —Nightstallion 19:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Are you for some reason very interested in this case regarding ICJ very much? :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, because it's likely the only way this conflict might be resolved within weeks instead of within decades. —Nightstallion 21:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
It'll be in the following weeks. But I'd advice you not to count on that. Now, a frozen conflict has become permanent, and now it'll be Western arrogance (primarily UK, also USA) that will be an obstacle to the solution of the conflict, the reality that North Kosovo will never be reintegrated into the independent Republic of Kosovo. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
nods Though what else was there to do? —Nightstallion 21:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

President Tadic claimed states which recognize Kosovo are legitimizers of ethnic cleansing. Serbia blocked in OSCE and vowed to block forever Kosovo admission, Russia confirmed to block admission of Kosovo into the UN and Russian and Serbian diplomats have stated that they have acquired a third plus one to block admission into the Council of Europe. They claim membership in the International Olympic Committee and other international organizations is also unable.

Young Serbian Foreign Minister sparks a public controversy in Turkey catching the Turkish ambassador speechless mentioning the Kurdish issue and in a following interview. Serbia seems to be very strongly reacting, and domestic political analysts say it probably won't work on European integrations, but EU will have to practically beg and suck it in in 20 years or so.

Serbia spends millions & millions of its wealth (which isn't much to begin with) to organize a huge protest tomorrow. It'll be non-working day and the State will pay rounding up citizens of the country in the nation's Capital. A drastic act and terrible waste of money (you simply cannot believe how big). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

So, what will Serbia do in the future apart from become poor? —Nightstallion 21:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
According to Vojislav Kostunica, reintegrate Kosovo... Tomislav Nikolic has been authorized as the National Assembly's Representative and national unity (-LDP) is once more... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Fat chance of that... —Nightstallion 21:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
There are already proposals to temporarily remove the old Monument to France. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
What monument? —Nightstallion 21:35, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
And old monument in Belgrade dedicated to France. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:22, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Ah. A bit childish, but okay. —Nightstallion 13:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Serbia commands the withdrawal and expulsion of total diplomatic staff. The Republic of Srbska preps for a referendum "if needed". --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but as I've read it, the referendum would only occur if Bosnia recognises Kosovo immediately. —Nightstallion 18:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
These demonstrations area really getting violent (with incidents) across Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia. The US embassy has been burned. The Croatian embassy was attacked. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I've read that, yeah... —Nightstallion 10:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
US consulate in Banja Luka closed. In Serbia the culture that was propagated across the media is Western. It's actually good not to see 99% things made in the United States for a change at least a little. The National Televisions are not airing anything made in countries that recognized independence of Kosovo until further on, so for the first time some Russian production found itself in Serbian TV. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
nods There's occasionally some talk about restricting non-internal media productions on radio and TV (I think it's even implemented on the radio in some states), but that's indeed an interesting effect. ;)Nightstallion 13:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
What is at the same time enraging the people and calming down (at least against non-American), is that the Serbian news reported that actually Washington Post, New York Times and even CNN seem a bit "pro-Serbian" in a way, and that there is absolutely no Serbophobia anywhere. Next to that, the Chancellor of the UN, who is a US guy, isn't really sharing the US way of view fully, which is in Serbia seen as a proof that it is really wrong. A poll is published in Serbia which shows that over 70% of Slovenia's population is against Kosovo independence, so the authorities call for not blaming Slovenia, because it'll obviously do that because of US pressure. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
So what will happen in the long term? Will the Serbs ever accept Kosovan independence? —Nightstallion 17:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
If you ask me today, the answer would most probably be never. At least not with the bad treatment and lack of understanding of the frozen conflict of North Kosovo in the West.
Montenegrins massively protest yesterday. MNE will probably not recognize Kosovo to evade potential civil disorder. With support for an independent Kosovo from the NATO, Serbia considers that it has officially broken the 1999 Military-Technical Kumanovo Agreement (which mandates no Serbian force in the vicinity of 10 kms off the border of Kosovo), so the Serbian Army has remilitarized the region, heavy tanks and artillery now at the border, further increasing tensions. The Kosovo Protection Corps increase their presence likewise, fearing of an invasion from Serbia - even further increasing tensions at the north. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:41, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
That sure will help. sighsNightstallion 13:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Protests across Greece and Russia. Serbia is in an awfully horrible situation. It is now even cold in relations with Russia because of a Russian journalist's incident who praised Djindjic's assassination. The DS cunningly evaded the protest with the President's diplomatic visit to Romania and Belgrade was today full of foreigners fleeing the country. Foreign investors are withdrawing and domestic private companies are starting to boycott merchandise coming from countries recognized Kosovo's independence - thus, the economy is collapsing.

Serbia is in complete political chaos, an anarchy which will probably stabilize itself in months (if not years), turning the region (Serbia and Kosovo) into a constantly instable part of the world, a European Middle East. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. Maybe that will help them realise that being asinine about it won't help them or Kosovo...? I can only hope... —Nightstallion 11:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

United Socialist Party of Venezuela

Estimado Nightstallion: disculpa que te escriba en español pero mi inglés es pésimo y como tienes la userbox de español avanzado pues aprovecho para escribirte en este idioma. Te escribo con respecto al artículo United Socialist Party of Venezuela pues ahí se afirman cuestiones como que el partido fue fundado el 20 de octubre de 2007, que tiene una ideología y un color oficial e incluso que tiene un sitio web oficial. Esto en realidad no es cierto pues el partido todavía no ha sido fundado, se encuentran realizando actualmente un Congreso Fundacional (el cual se espera que termine a mediados de marzo) y quizás sólo después de terminado éste es que podremos hablar de algo oficial, hasta ese momento estamos cayendo en fuente primaria.

Seguro hay que darle una buena actualización al artículo, pero en este momento eso es lo de menos, lo importante es aclarar que el partido todavía no es realmente un partido sino sólo una propuesta y que además no tiene hasta ahora ninguna base oficial (quizás sería necesario retirar la infobox entera). Tal vez te interese leer la versión en español del artículo para que comprendas mejor qué ha ocurrido y qué está ocurriendo actualmente. Reitero las disculpas por no escribirte en inglés, realizaría yo mismo los cambios pero no dispongo de los conocimientos suficientes como para escribir en inglés, a duras penas puedo leerlo. Saludos cordiales. Tomatejc (talk) 05:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

¡Hi! No es problema que me escribes en español; creo que mi español escrito no es tan bueno, pero no duro penas leyendolo. He corregido el artículo en respecto a la fecha de la fundación; ¿que estan las otras cosas que debemos corregir? Saludos. —Nightstallion 08:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


After long discussions in it.Wiki we reached an agreement on a single article for the Italian Democratic Socialist Party (see it:Partito Socialista Democratico Italiano), as the party is the same of that in the First Republic, similarly to the story of the Italian Republican Party. I would like to see a single article also in en.Wiki. What do you think about it? And, if you agree with me, can you merge the two articles? --Checco (talk) 10:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Sure, no problem, just merge them -- you don't need my help for that, I think. :)Nightstallion 10:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I will do it later. Thanks! --Checco (talk) 11:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Gladly! —Nightstallion 11:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Norway's recognition of Kosovo

I believe you might have misunderstood the Norwegian statement. The foreign minister has stated that the Norwegian government has recognized Kosovo's independence in the same way as Germany did earlier today. But since Norway is a kingdom only the head of state can recognize foreign countries. The heads of state, both in Norway and Germany have only symbolic authority. Therefore the Norwegian recognition is just as real as the one of Germany. Jakro64 (talk) 15:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

But the official declaration does not state that the government has decided to recognise Kosovo, it just states that Norway will recognise Kosovo. In the case of Germany, the federal government formally decided to recognise Kosovo. —Nightstallion 15:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The formal decision has not been made yet so just wait for it. It will come soon. Officially Norway still doesn't recognize Kosovo--Trigor (talk) 17:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Really? Sorry, then, the foreign ministry statement sounded like it had happened... —Nightstallion 17:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

History of the Balkans

Hi. This image may interest you in terms of Kosovo independence/secession. As I don't have any knowledge regarding editing images, I thought you might want to modify it to encompass the recent events. Cheers BalkanFever 10:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid gif-editting is not really my strength, either, but thanks nonetheless! :)Nightstallion 10:37, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


I write you here in order to separate our discussions. I would like to ask you what is "centre" in Austria? I know that in Germany you can consider centre almost every political party (but The Left) at some extent, but what about Austria? Are the Greens centrist? And, anyway, what kind of centre you would like? Examples? --Checco (talk) 10:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. Since the ÖVP has shifted markedly to the right, I'd suppose that the SPÖ is currently the only party close to the centre; the Greens and the ÖVP both have rather centrist dimensions, but can be far from the centre in certain other characteristics. In Germany, I would consider neither the Greens nor the FDP to be centrist, but I'd agree that they're close to the centre relatively speaking. I personally would like a political centre which can help stabilise a government, but it would have to be honest enough to generally support the election winner and not to help a loser retain his government position despite being clearly disfavoured by the voters. —Nightstallion 10:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
So would you like a centrist party which governs anytime it is needed for a major party to form a stable coalition (so, in a system based on proportional representation, almost always)? What kind of identity could have a party which is always in government? Isn't there the risk of having either a thechocratic or without-identity or corrupt party? --Checco (talk) 10:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. Possibly, but with more centrist parties, it's not as much of a problem... —Nightstallion 11:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Very interesting discussion, sometime I would like to continue it. One more question on Austria: what do the opinion polls say these days? are the parties out of the grand coalition growing in terms of votes? If the next general election would be now, what would be the outcome? --Checco (talk) 11:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I don't know if you've heard about it, but there's currently a major scandal in the interior ministry -- and the ÖVP is being hurt most by it, with the SPÖ also being hurt a bit. According to current polls, Greens and FPÖ would grow a bit, SPÖ and ÖVP shrink, and BZÖ might or might not make it into parliament again -- depending on whether the BZÖ retains its seats or not, early elections might only lead to another forced grand coalition (as there are no viable three-party coalitions). If the BZÖ does not make it into parliament, then SPÖ-Greens, ÖVP-Greens or ÖVP-FPÖ might be possible, though the ÖVP has stated it does not want to form a coalition with FPÖ (though you know how it is with political promises...) —Nightstallion 11:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Can you give me some numbers of the parties according to opinion polls? And will Haider retain his post as Governor of Carithia next year? --Checco (talk) 11:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
About 35% for ÖVP, 34% for SPÖ, Greens at 15%, FPÖ at 14%, BZÖ at 4%, approximately. All of that might change very much in the next days and weeks, though. Whether Haider will retain his post... I frankly don't know; I think Schaunig (SPÖ) *could* win, and I hope she does, but Carinthian politics are notoriously corrupt. —Nightstallion 11:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I find difficult to understand how such an extremist party as FPÖ can have all these votes. When it took the 27%, it had more moderate factions within, so that was less a surprise to me, but now... Oh, maybe I'm wrong and FPÖ is now more moderate than in 2005. What exactly is its ideology now? How is it possibile to it to gain such strenght? And why so few 1999 FPÖ voters continue to prefer the historical leader Haider? --Checco (talk) 11:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm afraid the anti-immigrant feeling in Austria is quite strong, so I'm rather glad the FPÖ is at less than 20%... Well, Haider is populist without any program behind his words, he's quite obviously manic-depressive and badly medicated, and he's ruined Carinthia's economy. Besides that, Haider is associated with the FPÖ's failure to do any good in government with the ÖVP, and Strache is no worse and no better than Haider -- but he hasn't failed yet. —Nightstallion 11:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
In what sense Carinthian politics is "notoriously corrupt"? In Italy Carinthia and his leader are examples of good government also for leading centre-left figures such as Riccardo Illy... --Checco (talk) 11:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
That's very, very sad. Haider has ruined Carinthia's economy and is playing with nationalist feelings over the bilingual town sign issues, and noone in Austria would even think of considering Carinthia under Haider an example of good government. Carinthia's worst off among Austrian states since Haider came to power. —Nightstallion 11:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Interesting, interesting... I felt that Haider's FPÖ gained power because it had a broader appeal of the current one and that Strache is less mainstream than Haider. Was I completely wrong? If FPÖ strenghtens again, it seems to me that I was completely wrong. But, what other policies is Strache's FPÖ suppoting? --Checco (talk) 12:11, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
It mainly gained votes under Haider because Haider had personal appeal, voters were fed up with a decade of grand coalitions with little change no matter what they voted for, and because Haider hid the FPÖ's nationalist side rather well for some time. He also killed off the liberal wing of the FPÖ, though. Strache's FPÖ is mainly anti-immigration, but apart from the nationalism it'd probably qualify as a pro-worker party -- somehow absurd, but that's how it is with these national and socialist parties. Ahem. —Nightstallion 12:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I thought that FPÖ was now a national-liberal party, but if you are right it is not absurd and definitely fits the category of national-conservative/nationalist parties: anti-immigration, pro-workers, statist. --Checco (talk) 13:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid there's been nothing liberal about the FPÖ ever since Haider defeated Steger in 1986; since the Liberal Forum's demise, liberals in Austria mainly vote for the Greens (mostly the liberals who put the emphasis on social liberalism) or the ÖVP (for the conservative liberals). —Nightstallion 13:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
It would be very interesting to see a ÖVP-Green government, though... --Checco (talk) 13:21, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd prefer SPÖ-Green, but ÖVP-Green would be better than ÖVP-FPÖ, at least. I doubt the Greens would do it, though. —Nightstallion 13:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure... for you that would be the dream-coalition. Isn't it? --Checco (talk) 13:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
But why did LIF disappear? --Checco (talk) 13:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, SPÖ-Greens would be optimal for me. :) Shame it's very unlikely to happen in the near future, as Austria is, I'm afraid, too right of centre.
The Liberal Forum disappeared mostly because of a lack of party structure -- there were almost no local offices, it was a top-down design. Then they failed to enter parliament with 3.7% -- so close, oh so close -- and after some local internal problems they fell out of the Viennese Landtag as well, and that was mostly their death. They're still technically alive, as you know, and have an MP and reportedly plan to run in the 2010 election, but I wouldn't bet anything on them, I'm afraid. Which is a shame. If they had somehow tried to ensure support in larger cities and among businesspeople first -- the ÖVP isn't really that much of a pro-business party, as parts of the party are very economically conservative and anti-liberal -- they'd have had more of a chance, but I'm afraid they didn't manage to do it... —Nightstallion 14:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your explanations. --Checco (talk) 14:04, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Gladly! :)Nightstallion 14:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

SVG vs. PNG in Kosovo recognized by graphic in International reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence

Hi there. Why did you just remove the SVG version I put there? Small countries and islands are much easier to make out in SVG (in Opera you can zoom graphics at will). I updated the map myself, to make sure it is current and uses the same colors as the PNG version. Aside from having an arbitrary scalability, an SVG map is very easy to update by anyone with a text editor, unlike PNG. And, I believe, that currently the SVG version i more, erm, current, as it correctly reflects the Tajikistan official rejection of Kosovo's independence. Best Wishes, --Mareklug talk 10:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. Fair enough, then my cache was not up-to-date; it had appeared to me that the SVG was not up-to-date. You'll have to do the updating, then, though, as I can't edit SVGs. —Nightstallion 10:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok. But surely you can edit it too. You use Emacs or Vim? Or any text editor, even Notepad (brrr...). Anyway, on this map, each country is represented with a single label, like #sm for San Marino. And in there, there is a fill parameter set to a color. All you have to do is switch the hex value there and you have yourself an updated map for that country. Best Wishes, --Mareklug talk 10:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, okay then. Thanks! —Nightstallion 11:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

UMP: centre-right?

Again, this discussion: state you opinion in Talk:Union for a Popular Movement. If you want, of course! --Checco (talk) 14:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo and Björk

It seems that Björk dedicated her latest performance of her song Declare Independence to Kosovo and subsequently her upcoming Serbia tour was canceled... The song is originally dedicated to Greenland and the Faroe Islands but she's apparently happy to rededicate it to any relevant secessionists - including the Basques at a concert in Bilbao last year.[12] Haukur (talk) 09:16, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Heh. Quite cool, actually. —Nightstallion 09:18, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
At it again - this time it's Tibet :) [13] Haukur (talk) 07:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I've read about it. Great. :)Nightstallion 07:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

New Government under Milo Djukanovic

You asked the day - it's 28 February 2008. The Speaker just scheduled it and the President just nominated formally Djukanovic. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, I've read it meanwhile. Thanks! —Nightstallion 11:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
This is on the scale (I know that both you and I'd choose Medojevic, but still ;) of 1 (part of Serb nation) to 10 (totally distinct ethnicity): Srdjan Milic - 4, Andrija Mandic - 2, Filip Vujanovic - 8, Nebojsa Medojevic - 6.
The scale of pro-European integrations: Nebojsa Medojevic - 9, Srdjan Milic - 8, Filip Vujanovic - 7, Andrija Mandic - 4.
BTW, who'd you favor for US Pres? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:07, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks! I'd prefer Obama. You? —Nightstallion 10:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Obama, of course. He's also very popular down in this part of Europe, which is a brilliant coincidence for relations (not just, it shows that all around the world he's the favorite candidate for US President). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
nods I hope he can revive the world's confidence, trust and sympathy towards the US... He'd certainly be the best. —Nightstallion 15:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes. I truly believe that his "Change" is really something that will shift the several last presidents, especially Bush. As far as I see, there is a general consensus not only in the broader world, but in the US itself that he's one of the worst Presidents in US history. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
nods Yes, indeed. —Nightstallion 22:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

B92 TV and NGOs under constant threats and attacks. The Government now full factually divides into 2 Governments, both hold sessions individually (one under Kostunica and the other under Djelic). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

So, early elections this year for sure, huh? —Nightstallion 15:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes. Also each and every DSS member (each, even Prime Minister) will from now on wear badges (similar to SRS's Vojislav Seselj image and "Stop to Hague Tyranny!" badge that every member wears) with Coats of Arms of Serbia and inscriptions "Kosovo is Serbia". --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:16, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
If you don't mind me saying so -- that's rather mad. —Nightstallion 17:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
...and political brainwashing.
The North Kosovars are in a tiresome dilemma. Their supplies are rapidly running out and all they do everyday is protest. The troublesome question is whether to cut off water supplies to the rest of Kosovo (most, excluding the one gifted by Serbia, drinking water comes from there). Because if they do, they will jeopardize the Serbs, Goranis and other citizens loyal to the Republic of Serbia living south of the river of Ibar. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:31, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. Serbia actually seems to be getting itself more and more into a no-win-situation, doesn't it? —Nightstallion 18:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
It isn't like everyone didn't expect this. I told you months ago that something like this would occur. I think that only some part of the West is shocked, because it didn't really study the situation thorough enough, so it seems stunned. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
True enough, but still -- what is Serbia expecting to happen? More importantly: Suppose Tadic miraculously wins a majority in an early parliamentary election -- what would he do differently? —Nightstallion 22:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I told you - complete political chaos.
The Budget is being reordered. Huge funds (up to half) will be reallocated to the Ministry for Kosovo-Metohija, which means all other fields will suffer intense cut downs. Economic analysts speculate that this will devastate Serbia's economy on the longterm, taking to granted that foreign investors from the West that were/are especially interested as slowly on the withdrawal. G17+ proposes freezing Kosovo's debt - Serbia pays millions of Euros of Kosovo's debt each and every year. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Huh? Why is Serbia still paying Kosovo's debt? I thought the EU would have to pay that now? —Nightstallion 18:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
No. Because it claims sovereignty over the territory. The Kosova Declaration of Independence nominates a compromise with the Serbian Government, which means that the new Republic of Kosovo will take a part of the remaining debt of Serbia, and only that (unlikely to happen). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:32, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Mh. Bad luck for Serbia, then... —Nightstallion 18:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Kostunica stated that as long as he's PM Serbia will not normalize relations with countries that recognized Kosovo, and that it can go only one way (deepening the rift, if they further make moves to support Kosovo's secession). Voja claims the relations with Serbia do not rely on Serbia, but on those countries themselves and the normalization of relations will the same way depend on revoking their acts in support of Kosovo's independence.

The US State Department (this thing really worries me very much and I find it stupid) stated that it supports and always will support territorial integrity and sovereignty of independent countries. It stated that it, the NATO and the EU will not allow any sort of division of Kosovo, telling all those who dream that to forget it. PM Hashim Thaci stated that Kosovo will be a democratic country with respect of all minorities, but threatened that anyone who wants to take a square centimeter of Kosovar territory can expect fierce resistance and that Prishtina is prepared to martially fight the minorities if they attempt separatism 'under Belgrade's brainwashing'. What is gonna happen? All North Kosovars simply have the same opinion as Albanians towards Serbia. They all see themselves outside of Pristina's control and there is no way to integrate them. On the other hand, most of the pro-Serbians living south of the river of Ibar are either cherishing false hopes that nothing will eventually change, or are preparing to move (or, those in the very south, are struck by complete despair). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh. Still, why should what Serbia had in mind for the Kosovan Albanians be better than what Kosovo has in mind for Kosovan Serbians? —Nightstallion 22:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Hm? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I meant if Serbians thought Kosovan Albanians could still live in Serbia, why can't Kosovan Serbians live in Kosovo? Just wondering. —Nightstallion 00:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Well now is the valid logic if these couldn't, why on earth could they. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Serbs have just abandoned the Kosovo Police Forces. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
nods Valid enough, yeah. We'll see.
I thought they stated they wouldn't? —Nightstallion 10:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
No, that's one of the Serbian government's secret Action Plans for Kosovo. They just formed in municipalities and settlements with Serb populace a separate Serb Police of the Province of Kosovo-Metohija. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
A bit of a legal nightmare, there, as a police can only operate within laws recognised by the courts -- or will there be Serbian courts, too? —Nightstallion 22:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well in North Kosovo the judicial system is the one of Serbia. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:15, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Even under UNMIK administration? —Nightstallion 19:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes. As you know, the UNMIK leaves a lot to the local population, and the EULEX has stated that when/if it takes over Kosovo, it won't establish governance over North Kosovo.
BTW, the Serbs just don't recognize the Kosovo Police Force, because the provisional institutions to which they belong have broken the law (they demanded KPF arrests the PM, President ans Speaker as an ultimatum), they still recognize the UNMIK police and want to be subjected to it, and no longer this autonomous one; however they criticize UNMIK's neutrality and lack of response on the udi. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:14, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Mh. —Nightstallion 11:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Nebojsa Medojevic called Filip Vujanovic for a TV duel. Vujanovic refused, claiming that he isn't even officially registered as a candidate. The entire opposition decided to boycott consultations with Milo Djukanovic, which cemented the negotiations for the new government. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:40, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

nods Likely election result from the current viewpoint? —Nightstallion 18:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
If nothing drastically changes in just several days, Vujanovic. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
nods Would Vujanovic and Milo recognise Kosovo afterwards, BTW? —Nightstallion 22:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Montenegro will recognize Kosovo in any outcome, but as the very last country of Europe to do so (which means it could be from within a month to a year). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Very last? After Cyprus, Romania, Hungary, Spain, BiH? Seems like that would take more than a year... —Nightstallion 00:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Cyprus, Romania and Spain declared against, I don't count them. And I always separate Bosnia from the family of European countries as per having a unique status (the OHR could completely legally decide to tomorrow recognize Kosovo). After Hungary? Of course, definitely. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I meant Slovakia, sorry. —Nightstallion 10:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Just sworn. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:19, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

nodsNightstallion 19:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


I don't understand why but there is a problem with italics in the infoboxes of the Federation of the Greens and the Italian Democratic Socialist Party. Can you fix it and explain to me how to do it the next time? --Checco (talk) 09:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The "newspaper" entry is automatically italicised, that's why you effectively input '''', which is interpreted as <b>'. —Nightstallion 11:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! --Checco (talk) 12:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Gladly! —Nightstallion 12:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Question regarding article deletion

I dont understand why did u delete the Kosovo controversy articles:They were under current events and all of them were sourced.

They were not properly formatted and did not meet the criteria for mentioning at current events. —Nightstallion 10:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


Can you add protection for template of Nato?

Karabinier 19:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Why is it necessary? —Nightstallion 18:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

re: Cyprus

Absolutely. In fact, you reminded me to go and pre-emptively stick in reference to his incoming-ness on the 2008 article.  :) The Tom (talk) 05:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


I would like to insert the Template:Infobox Political party in the articles about Italian political parties, new and old. I'm not able to understand completely: in particular I'm not able to understand how to insert the other leadership posts. As an explanation, can you insert the template in Forza Italia with Silvio Berlusconi President, Giulio Tremonti Vice President and Sandro Bondi Coordinator? --Checco (talk) 09:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, and what does "national affiliation" mean? Is it about the national coalition? --Checco (talk) 09:45, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I was able to understand how it works. Sorry if I write to you every time! I will also make some changes to the template in order to make it more neutral. --Checco (talk) 12:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Glad to hear you managed to find it out. :)Nightstallion 12:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Uhm... new problem: I don't understand how to define the colorcorde with that template. I tried to put "lightblue" in the infobox of Forza Italia, but the result was purple. I think that there is something to fix in the template itself, but I don't know how to do it. Can you fix it? --Checco (talk) 13:15, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Spelling mistake, it's "colorcode", obviously -- didn't see any colour as you left the page, removing the r shows it correctly in lightblue. —Nightstallion 13:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! Sometimes I am very stupid. One more question: do you think it is better to use a specific template as infobox for Italian political parties. As I am starting to upload a template in every article about an Italian political party, it is better to start with a clear idea. --Checco (talk) 13:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Ah, that could happen to anyone. ;) That depends on a simple question: Is there anything specific about Italian parties which makes their infoboxes similar in some points? If yes, then a separate infobox makes sense, if not, then not. —Nightstallion 13:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Probably we can make a simpler template with also links to other articles on Italian politics (as it is in the Austrian political party template). Anyway the best reason for a specific template would be to prevent changes in the general template that could harm the infoboxes in the article on Italian parties. What you think? --Checco (talk) 13:25, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
As you like it. :)Nightstallion 13:27, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll do a specific template. --Checco (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Last question (I hope) on Template:Infobox Italian political party. I would like to have "membership year" in small, but what I tried to do was not correct. See for instance the result in Democrats of the left. What do I need to do? --Checco (talk) 14:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Mission accomplished, even this time. Sorry again. --Checco (talk) 14:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

:)Nightstallion 15:18, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

List of countries in Europe article

I'm sorry to bother you with this... the Kosovo issue is continuing to give me headaches as people misplace the Kosovo entry and I revert/re-edit the page. Is there any way that the article can be partially protected against this sort of thing? Cheers. The €T/C 12:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I've semi-protected it for now. —Nightstallion 12:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! Cheers. The €T/C 14:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


Except the age one, no. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:35, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. Let me know if there are any... —Nightstallion 18:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
BTW, if you're interested in the result, Serbians are now the 2nd oldest nation on Earth. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
What exactly was the poll about? —Nightstallion 19:33, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
The average age. Only the Japanese are 'older' than the Serbians. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:33, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, didn't understand it at first. What about the Russians? And I suppose that is because of massive emigration of young Serbians? —Nightstallion 22:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh no, all the young are already gone. :)
Children really aren't being born. 4 factors:
1.The whole situation of the 1990s has affected the general emotional feeling of the traumatized people
2.The so-called "White Plague" - families have just one kid in order to save their property from division, a very common problem in history
3.The general fallout of the popularity of the institution of marriage
4.400,000 abortions every year
Vojvodina is paying every next child to families every month until they grow up. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
So Vojvodina's population grows, then? Or not even that? By those numbers the Kosovan Albanians should simply have waited the thirty years until they were the majority population in Serbia... —Nightstallion 00:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
No, Vojvodina's population drops even more rapidly than the rest of Serbia's. A very fascinating thing is that, due to these consequences, the die-out is common to all of the numerous of Vojvodina's ethnicities, so while decreasing in number they oddly maintain the same proportionality (unlike the south where the Albanians have a demographic explosion).
Yes, about 23 years according to Serbian demographic experts for a 55% Albanian majority. But that's far too long for them and that's not what many really want (and that is an undivided unified Greater Albania). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
nods I just meant that in that case, the Albanian majority could simply pass a law dividing Serbia... ;)Nightstallion 11:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and what will be the likely date and reason to call early parliamentary elections? —Nightstallion 22:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure they'll think of something. September. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 00:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

You asked for polls? Well, the pro-EU slightly weakened (over 60%), but over 70% consider that Serbia should not have anything with the EU if it is asked to recognize independence of Kosovo. Majority thinks that Serbia should not brake relations with countries that recognize Kosovo's independence, and on the final solution it's pretty divided - but the strongest current is division of Kosovo.

Serbia is divided into Two Blocks (not political, but completely national, just like Montenegro was from 2002 to 2006 divided onto "Movement for Independent and Sovereign Montenegro" and "Movement for European State Union Serbia-Montenegro"): 1. "Europe Has No Alternative", and
2. "A Million Messages: Kosovo is Serbia"

The two are slowly growing and starting to divide the country. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The two Serb Ministers in Kosovo's Government just froze their departments. The UNMIK stated that it will not withdraw and will stay in Kosovo until the Security Council chooses otherwise. It stated that there will be no transfer of authorities to EULEX. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The poll to the up is the one just after Kosovo declaration of independence. This on is just before it:

  • SRS - 39.4%
  • DS-G17+ - 37.5%
  • DSS-NS - 10.4%
  • LDP - 5.4%
  • SPS - 3.9%
  • others - 3.5% —Preceding unsigned comment added by PaxEquilibrium (talkcontribs) 18:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Was there any kind of party poll from after the UDI? —Nightstallion 19:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
No, and it seems there won't be (non-division on parties for national unity). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Mh, too bad. —Nightstallion 11:33, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 08:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Tricolour Flame

I don't agree with the move of "Tricolour Flame" to Tricolour Flame Social Movement. It is true that this is the complete name, but I think that it would be fairly better to use the most used name, "Tricolour Flame", as we did for Democratic Left and Lega Nord. Moreover the party itself uses the simpler name in the symbol, in the official website and for the groups in elected Councils, differently from what Democracy is Freedom – Daisy used to do (reason why in that case the complete name is ok with me). Do you agree with me about returning back to the original title of the article? --Checco (talk) 14:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Aye. —Nightstallion 14:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I did the move. --Checco (talk) 15:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 10:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Italy of Values

How to classify Italy of Values? An interesting discussion is taking place in Talk:Italy of Values... --Checco (talk) 09:23, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Discussion continues... --Checco (talk) 13:40, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Christian Democracy

If Christian Democracy (Italy) redirects to Christian Democracy (Italy, historical), why not having that article directly at the first "address"? --Checco (talk) 14:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

No, because the title alone has to make clear whether the party is the historical or the current one; the redirect from CD(I) is just for convenience. —Nightstallion 16:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
So why not having a disambiguation like Italian Liberal Party? I would like to see something like this at least... --Checco (talk) 16:26, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
No, because the current CD is so unimportant. —Nightstallion 16:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't undestand. If the current DC and PLI are so unimportant (I agree with you!), why not ahving Christian Democracy (Italy) for the historical party with a small disambiguation at the top, as in it Wiki (see it:Democrazia Cristiana)? --Checco (talk) 16:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
For disambiguation reasons. —Nightstallion 17:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
If you want, I can do the huge work. --Checco (talk) 17:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
No, that's not what I meant -- it's just that if we've got CD(I) as the title for the historical party, that implies it's the only party of that name in Italy, which is simply incorrect -- that's why I'd prefer to clearly state which one it is. —Nightstallion 17:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I understand this, but I think that it would be reasonable to have a disambiguation like that for the Italian Liberal Party or something like the it.Wiki version. --Checco (talk) 17:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Are you unconvincible on any of these two proposals? If we are not able to reach a compromise (as we almost always do), where can we discuss the issue in order to hear other users' opinions? --Checco (talk) 18:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
So what? --Checco (talk) 18:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, hadn't noticed you had replied here -- sorry. I guess I could live with a disambiguation page, then. Okay? —Nightstallion 18:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
That would be fine for me. Fine. --Checco (talk) 18:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


UDC and RB agreed on the alliance. I updated Template:Italian political parties. Do you think that the UDC-led coalition needs a separate section as I did or not? --Checco (talk) 15:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, it's fine like that. Does that mean that UDC-RB now has a chance to enter parliament on their own? —Nightstallion 16:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, if the alliance surpasses the 4% threshold for the Chamber (quite sure) and the 8% threshold in some regions (likely only in Sicily and few other ones). --Checco (talk) 16:26, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
nods So there'll be at least four factions in parliament, then: PD, PdL, LS-LA and UDC-RB? Will LD-FT make it into parliament, too? —Nightstallion 16:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
No, there will be more factions/groups: PdL, PD, LN, The Left, UDC-RB and MpA. The 4% is very high for The Right, but that does not mean that it won't be able to surpass it: some opinion polls put it around 3.5%... --Checco (talk) 16:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
And what does that mean for the political future of Italy? —Nightstallion 17:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know what exactly you would like to know. It seems a huge semplification, but until the electoral system and the Constitution are the current ones, I don't think that there will be too much change. Obviously if the centre-right wins and UDC-RB and The Right both enter the Parliament, there will be the largest centre-right majority in Italian republican history. I am a little bit hopeless, but let's see if something really changes... I personally dislike how Veltroni is recruiting candidates and his mood (he says everything and the opposite of everything), thus I don't know if he will be a responsible opposition leader. --Checco (talk) 17:26, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Really? I've heard from someone else from Italy (in the forum of the Austrian Der Standard) who generally is in favour of the centre-right, but this time will vote for Veltroni because of his plans for reducing the number of MPs and because of his reform plans in general... —Nightstallion 17:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

(reindent) He is a little bit populist and I know both centre-right people who will vote him this time and centre-left people who are a little bit disoriented by Veltroni. Most of the things Italian disliked of Berlusconi are now what Veltroni does. Moreover Veltroni is proposing all the things that Berlusconi already tried to do, but was stopped by the opposition. Take constitutional reform: there is nothing new in Veltroni's proposals from what the centre-right already put in their constitutional reform some years ago. --Checco (talk) 17:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Mh, interesting. —Nightstallion 18:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
What I would like you to know is that I don't have anything against Veltroni, but I simply find him unconvincing because his past and his coalition speak for themselves. Anyway, it's not just a problem of left and right, but more of North and South. I live in Veneto and it is almost twenty years that in my region voters ask only two things: fiscal and political federalism. I, like many of my fellow Venetians, am a little bit disillusioned with parties and leaders. I hope that what Veltroni says about constitutional reform (although he never mentioned fiscal and political federalism in his campaign) will be what he will say when, as likely opposition leader, will have to reach a constitutional agreement with Berlusconi. --Checco (talk) 18:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 18:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I meant what this meant for the Italian political party system, mostly. —Nightstallion 17:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

It will be definitely interesting to see basically two big national parties and the growth of regionalist parties. --Checco (talk) 17:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 18:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
It is also interesting that the parties are recruiting interesting candidates and so we will have a high-level Parliament or, at least, we hope so... --Checco (talk) 18:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, let's hope that the Italian system really changes this time... —Nightstallion 18:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

GAL, in Hamburg state election, 2008

Hi Nighstallion.

According to this anon edit [14] there is a party over the 5% threshold which is not even mentioned in the article at all (only 4 are mentioned). Have you ever heard of this so-called GAL party? is it a local branch of a bigger party already mentioned? is it blank votes?

by the way, I just notice as I write this that I am assuming that the percentages given by the anon are right, but, actually, I haven't actually bothered to check them...

I thought that you -as a German speaker into politics- maybe you have some clue.

Thanks anyway. Mountolive group using a loop of another pop group 00:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's fine -- GAL = Grün-Alternative Linke = Greens. —Nightstallion 12:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Sure! I guess that was too late for me to focus.... Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountolive (talkcontribs) 20:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Can't think of everything all at once, can we? ;)Nightstallion 22:05, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Indeed ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountolive (talkcontribs) 14:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Tropical cyclones WikiProject Newsletter #14

Number 14, March 1, 2008

The Hurricane Herald

This is the monthly newsletter of WikiProject Tropical Cyclones. The Hurricane Herald aims to give a summary, both of the activities of the WikiProject and global tropical cyclone activity. If you wish to change how you receive this newsletter, or no longer wish to receive it, please add your username to the appropriate section on the mailing list. This newsletter covers all of February 2008.

Please visit this page and bookmark any suggestions of interest to you. This will help improve monitoring of the WikiProject's articles.

Storm of the month

CycloneCyclone Ivan

Cyclone Ivan formed on February 7 and subsequently executed a loop to the west-southwest. Encountering favorable conditions, it strengthened to attain peak winds on February 17 before striking northeastern Madagascar. It degenerated into a remnant low pressure area as it crossed the island, and briefly re-organized into a weak tropical depression before dissipating on February 22. Ivan caused heavy damage in Madagascar, leaving 190,000 people homeless and causing over 83 deaths.

Other tropical cyclone activity

  • In the South Pacific ocean, Cyclone Gene persisted from the previous month; a tropical depression also occurred in the month.
  • Tropical Cyclone Nicholas was the only named storm during the month in the Australian region, which struck Western Australia. Two tropical lows occurred during the month, the latter of which later formed into Tropical Cyclone Ophelia.
  • Four storms occurred in the Southwest Indian Ocean, including two from the previous month and the aforementioned Cyclone Ivan. Cyclone Hondo became the strongest cyclone worldwide in the month, and after becoming extratropical it regenerated over ten days later about 1750 miles (2800 km) to its west-northwest.

Member of the month

Cyclone barnstar

The February member of the month is RattleMan, for his lasting dedication and continual support of the project. During February, the user worked on improving the timeline articles for the previous season. RattleMan often updates the sections on storms in season articles, and helps to maintain the southern hemisphere articles.

Main Page content

Storm article statistics

Grade Nov Dec Jan Feb
Featured article FA 31 33 33 36
A-Class article A 8 9 9 8
GA 109 112 114 123
B 82 86 99 96
Start 211 208 214 216
Stub 6 6 3 6
Total 447 454 472 485
ω 3.01 2.98 2.98 2.96
Less than B
48.5 47.1 46.0 45.8
GA or better
33.1 33.9 33.1 34.3

Improvements During the month, a total of 15 new articles were added, though the net increase in start or stub articles was only three. The highest quality set of articles for a basin is for the Eastern Pacific Ocean, of which half of its articles are either a good article or better; all of its retired storm articles are good or better. However, the basin has a lower total number of articles, and the Atlantic basin has a higher overall total of good articles.

There is a drive to increase the number of featured topics, which is located on the project talk page.

♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Montenegrin poll

Very bad news. Filip Vujanovic is the 3rd most popular individual in Montenegro, Nebojsa Medojevic is only the 6th. Srdjan Milic is the 7th, while Andrija Mandic is 11th.

On European Union (the fall of EU popularity has been stabilized):

  • 72.8% YES
  • 9.2% NO
  • 18% don't know

On NATO (rapid fall continues):

  • 44.2% NO
  • 29.5% YES
  • 26.3% don't know

On ICTY (returning to popular):

  • 49.2% YES
  • 29.8% NO
  • 21% don't know

On Kosovo-Metohija:

  • 67.7% NO
  • 11.3% YES
  • 21% don't know

Montenegro's population is now confused - they don't know to whom to come (USA, EU, Serbia or Russia).

Political parties (72.2% determined; constant growth of DPS CG):

  • DPS - 44.5%
  • PZP - 18.5%
  • SNS - 11.5%
  • SNP - 9.7%
  • SDP - 3%
  • others - 13.5%

1st round: Presidential candidates (71.1% turnout):

  • Filip Vujanovic - 49.5%
  • Nebojsa Medojevic - 21.2%
  • Andrija Mandic - 14.8%
  • Srdjan Milic - 9.9%
  • others - 4.6%

2nd round: 62.1% turnout:

  • Filip Vujanovic - 63.2%
  • Nebojsa Medojevic - 36.8%

2nd round II: 62.1% turnout:

  • Filip Vujanovic - 68.5%
  • Andrija Mandic - 31.5%

2nd round III: 62.1% turnout:

  • Nebojsa Medojevic - 67.3%
  • Andrija Mandic - 32.7%

So...with Milo in charge nothing will change... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:05, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Mh. Doesn't sound too good. —Nightstallion 22:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Newest poll:

  • Filip Vujanovic - 30.59%
  • Andrija Mandic - 30.18%
  • Nebojsa Medojevic - 20.62%
  • Srdjan Milic - 18.61%

I guess Kosovo is doing its job. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

nods Does Mandic have a chance in the second round, though? —Nightstallion 09:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Since he's a nationally-declared Serb (33.6% of the population), nope. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

North Kosovo

The Serbs took over the Kosovo train system, they have been transfered to Belgrade. North Kosovo rapidly gets (re)integrated into Serbia. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:02, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

nodsNightstallion 22:24, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
UNMIK retook control; claims the act violates the mutual understanding of 2003. It claims that Serbia's complaints that a unilateral declaration of independence of Kosovo changes and abolishes all before 17 February are false, since to the UN, most of the international community and therefore the UNMIK, Kosovo is a Serbian province and not an independent country. Serbian government's response is that SRSG should abolish Kosovo independence, if that's true.
I wonder why doesn't NATO protest the Serbian remilitarization of the buffer zone? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Good question... —Nightstallion 15:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Template:Italian political parties in 2007

If this template is on Italian political parties in 2007, why are you inserting parties happened in 2008? --Checco (talk) 07:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

So what? --Checco (talk) 08:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, hadn't seen this. I just wanted to keep it moderately up to date, but as it is, I'm not sure what to do with it... —Nightstallion 15:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
That's fine. To some extent that template is "yours". --Checco (talk) 16:08, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Heh, certainly insofar as noone else is using it... ;) Any idea what to do with it? I suppose we could break up the structure and group the parties by "in parliament"/"extraparliamentary" (in the vertical axis) and by political orientation (leftist, centre-left, centrist, centre-right, rightist), but would there be a clear-cut category for all of them? —Nightstallion 16:48, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually no idea... --Checco (talk) 18:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXIV (February 2008)
Project news
Articles of note

New featured articles:

  1. 2007 United States Air Force nuclear weapons incident
  2. Carlson's patrol
  3. Coenwulf of Mercia
  4. Glorious First of June
  5. Koli Point action
  6. Operation Camargue

New featured lists:

  1. List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality

New A-Class articles:

  1. 51st Army (Soviet Union)
  2. Indonesian occupation of East Timor (1975-1999)
  3. Le Paradis massacre
  4. Military of East Timor
  5. USS Bridgeport (AD-10)
Breaking news
  • A new B-Class Assessment Drive ("BCAD") will go operational no later than 11 March. Of great interest to experienced wiki-gnomes, it is small in scope, about 4,500 articles, and will be supported by the usual awards, including a golden wiki. To keep up to date with developments, and to get off to a flying start when it opens, add WP:MHA-BCAD now to your watchlist.
Awards and honors
  • Kirill Lokshin has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his outstanding organizational work, his painstaking maintenance work, and his unstinting advice, throughout his two years of project leadership.
  • MBK004 has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his outstanding effort to improve our compliment of naval ships by updating infoboxes, replacing deprecated infoboxes, and locating sources for ships in the employment of their respective countries' navies.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 03:45, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Signpost updated for March 3rd, 2008.

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My project

See my new creation: User:TheFEARgod/Timeline. Feel free to edit or comment--TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Referendum on EU in Serbia

There'll likely be a referendum on EU in Serbia by the end of the year (most probably). Rehn offered to continue European integrations, SRS submitted a resolution which demanded ceasure of all relations to the EU if it puts recognition of Kosovo independence as a pre-requisite and demands that UNSCR 1244 must continue to be mentioned in all treaties with the EU. Dulic closed parliamentary session because the Government hasn't expressed its opinion on the matter, due to the fact that DS-G17+ have governmental majority, the patriots have announced his deposal. If that occurs, DS & G17 will abandon the government. In the end Dulic agreed with most parliamentary leaders to hold a referendum in Serbia on the question of the European Union. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. Any idea how exactly the question will be worded and what the likely result will be? —Nightstallion 12:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
That's yet another place of controversy in the government. DS wants it to be just whether or not the citizen wants into the EU, while DSS wants to mention "full constitutional territorial integrity within internationally-recognized borders" to be anded into the question. In case of the former, the result would be a strong majority, while the latter would base on who campaigns for which reply. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
The democratic governmental majority dismissed the SRS' proposal. The moderates outnumbered; PM Kostunica publicly attacked the President for 'trying once more to mettle into the Government's politics for personal interest'. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Mh? Not quite sure what exactly happened -- who outnumbered whom? —Nightstallion 16:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
DS&G17+ outnumbered DSS-NS. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:48, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, okay. —Nightstallion 16:52, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
This just came in, on Thursday after all will the session of the Parliament be held when SRS' resolution will be discussed. That is the day the government might fall.
(unrelated) Kosovo has intensified South Ossetian demands for independence and is straining relations of Armenia and Azerbaijan very tightly (according to some, very close to war). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually, the increased tensions are a result of the large-scale election protests against the election fraud in Armenia -- which Azerbaijan has started to see as its opportunity to regain some territory in preemptive military action while the government is occupied with keeping its own people under control. —Nightstallion 17:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Too a factor, but I'd bid Kosovo more - the Caucasus has always very carefully looked at Kosovo and waited for years (like Transnistria). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
No, I doubt that was teh primary reason, but never mind. —Nightstallion 18:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Unrelated - I know that SNP is now leading in Scotland (and it's policies), but have never ever heard London's opinion on the matter. What is it? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
You're a little late, they've been leading in polls since 2005 and won elections in 2007. ;) The UK's opinion is if there's a democratic decision in favour of independence, they would of course not obstruct an independent Scotland. —Nightstallion 18:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
No, I know that - badly phrased sentence. ;) That might then explain UK's attitude regarding Kosovo, but still not as fierce one (even LDP is against the UK ambassador).
Btw polls show that normalization of relations with the US would go with Obama's replacement of Bush and normalization with the EU when Solana is out of the picture. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Really? Despite the fact that the US and EU would still treat Kosovo as independent? —Nightstallion 19:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
The Balkans change too you know. :) Obama is popular, Bush is hated and Solana is incredibly satanized as the factual incarnation of all evil in Serbia. You can expect how the facts that he's sought through transformation of FRY into S&M and that he's constantly with Serbian leaders on European integrations (his every arrival averagely gave 100k votes to the Radicals, so claim the statistics). Without Putin, "love" for Russia would disappear too. All is actually based solely & exclusively on political leaders. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Seriously? So once Bush is replaced by Obama/Clinton/McCain, and once Medvedev is the Russian president, Serbia is likely to realign more westwards again? —Nightstallion 20:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
No, if it's McCain, nothing'll change; and if it's Clinton, Serbia will join the union of Russia and Belarus. I'd not bid on Russia, since I heard Putin will (Djukanovic-style) be PM. And since it's Europe, the prime problem presents Solana. When will he leave his post? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Clinton would be worse... because her husband was responsible for the NATO bombings? Well, with Russia, you never know -- Medvedev could emancipate himself in a year's time, and then dispose of Putin just like Putin disposed of Jelzin... Solana is a bit of a problem, though, as he'll most likely become the new "EU Foreign Minister" (not the official term, but you know that) once the Lisbon Treaty enters into force on 2009-01-01... —Nightstallion 20:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Not really. When in Serbia the message from Clinton greeting with all hear Kosovo Albanian freedom is compared with the message of Obama who talks about suffering of the Serbian people, what do you think is the opinion. Her husband doesn't have so much effort as her personal attitudes - for instance, she used blackening the Bosnian Serbs in her campaign in an effort to show that she has heroic preferences for her experience (which was a one-hour trip to BH after the war) and finally, she wants to hand over the State Department to Richard Hoolbroke. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Holbrooke? That explains the Serb aversion... I sincerely hope Obama will win. —Nightstallion 22:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Even the Serbian Orthodox Church is now divided. The acting Head, Metropolitan of Montenegro and the Littoral, advised the Serbs to not break all connections and reintegrate into the Kosovo society, while the local Rascio-Prizren Bishop (political leader of all Kosovo Serbs) claims he's meddling into affairs that are none of his business and advised him to go out of Belgrade and return to Montenegro. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

So the head of the church is actually in favour of cooperation with the Prishtina authorities? Interesting. —Nightstallion 20:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Maybe because he's not from Serbia and not really a Serb in the true meaning of the word. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk)
Heh. ;)Nightstallion 22:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


Oh thanks, I nearly forgot! I was trying to make a background on the Anjouan article, but I struggle with writing political moves and controversies. Maybe a help from you... The future article may best fit with the name Invasion of Anjouan (2008) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXII - March 2008

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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXII - March 2008
Project news
  • An election has been proposed to elect a council that will govern the whole project for a month or more, if you would like to debate this, go to the general discussion forum here
Member news
  • The project has currently 312 members, 7 joined & 0 leavers since the start of February 2008.
Other news
  • Last months collaboration brought few improvements it would be nice if more got involved with the one for this month.
Task force news
Novel related news
Current debates
  • The debate on "studying literature" is now taking place here. Please have a look and add to the debate.
From the Members

Welcome to the Twenty Second issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk), Initiating Editor

Collaboration of the Month
Newsletter challenge

Last month's challenge (The Field of Vision) was completed by member User:Elizabennet as a fairly basic "stub" if anyone knows more to enhance it, please do.

  • The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Norman Douglas' perhaps most famous work South Wind (LE).

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot -- 16:40, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


Campaign started. Vujanovic is everywhere, there is barely a single promotion of Medojevic. State TV endorses Vujanovic almost exclusively, and all news publish statements that the other three candidates are "anti-Montenegrin" and "anti-stately". The incredibly expensive campaign of Vujanovic sounds fishy to the amount of many candidates have received, or so claim all the other candidates (and myself - he's really spending away). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's good in a way -- it means that Djukanovic's lackeys are increasingly under pressure from their opponents and need large amounts of money to ensure the win, doesn't it? —Nightstallion 10:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
..the very same thing that repeats from the beginning of restoration of parliamentarism in 1990... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:12, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Mh? —Nightstallion 11:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Almost every election since 1990 has been like that. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
So Djukanovic never was popular? —Nightstallion 13:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Himself he had never popularity. In 1989 he was appointed Communist Secretary by Slobodan Milosevic, in 1991-1998 he was appointed by Bulatovic PM three times and then he won President only because all pro-Milosevic forces united to elect him. Today his popularity bends on nationalism & patriotism for achieving Montenegrin independence. From then onwards occasional electoral fraud drew 'round, decreasing slowly to becoming very rare and localized today. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 16:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

News: Serbian government just collapsed, parliamentary elections on 11 May. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I've just heard it on the news. What do you think will be the result? —Nightstallion 16:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
A pretty looong age of instability, demonstrators no one will be able to control and fruitless negotiations. DS and DSS will never again go together, and you know what would DSS want for coalition with SRS and SPS. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Frankly, I believe a phase of productive instability may actually be what Serbia needs right now so that they'll learn to accept the loss of Kosovo -- of course, I may be wrong. I suppose Kostunica would demand to remain PM? —Nightstallion 22:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Except that one first has to be stable to destabilize. ;P
Yep, you got it. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, I meant "destabilise even more to learn to accept the loss of Kosovo"... ;)Nightstallion 22:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Done. I just realized, Kostunica blamed that DS & G17+ don't want Kosovo in Serbia, while Tadic accused that DSS & NS don't want european integrations. :))) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:45, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! And, what do you think who'll make it? I think it's unlikely that there'll be a majority for DS-G17+-LDP-minorities, but I also doubt that DSS-NS and SRS would be able to agree on who should become PM... How do minority governments work in Serbia? Possible? —Nightstallion 08:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
No idea. The DS-G17+-LDP-LSV-minorities could win the election, only if they stand as a coalition on one list, and if they present the election as a referendum. The 2004-2007 government of Kostunica was a minority gov, and this very last one was the first that had a strong majority. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:46, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
And, any chance of forming a coalition before the election? —Nightstallion 13:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Nope. Tadic said he'll only go with those who have supported him president, considering that those that didn't actually supported Nikolic. That is, SDP & G17+ will go on its list. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
That's a bad idea, I think, but we'll see... —Nightstallion 19:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

The Cetinje local administration took land & building property in that municipality from the Serbian Orthodox Church accepting the MOC's appeal and granted it to the Montenegrin Orthodox Church. The Metropolitanate of Montenegro and the Littoral will lodge appeals to the courts, but due to their doubtful neutrality, will probably complain to the European Court in Strasbourg. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:46, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh? —Nightstallion 13:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, these "deserbification" moves in neighboring MNE are strengthening the nationalists in Serbia, who want reaction. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 19:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Milo Djukanovic just registered his fifth company. Looks like he wants to have one for each term as PM he hold. :))) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

sighsNightstallion 22:33, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Deputy section in infoboxes

The deputy section in the officeholders' infoboxes are showing and cause a level of confusion. Therequiembellishere (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean? —Nightstallion 16:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I meant they aren't showing. I noticed here. Do you see where Tonio Borg is? He should be noted as Deputy Prime Minister, but he's under Eddie Fenech Adami, giving the impression that Gonzi has been prime minister under Borg as president. Therequiembellishere (talk) 17:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, no idea how to solve that... —Nightstallion 17:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

How to...

Hi. I want to perform a common vote for everyone to weigh in on the Kosovo issue with regards to the List of countries in Europe article. How do I do this and should it be on the talk page of the article? Thanks for the help. Cheers. The €T/C 18:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, you shouldn't do that -- Kosovo is a partially recognised state and will remain so for the next decade or so, and it'll have to stay in the extra section for now (unless almost all of Europe recognises it, which is not yet the case). —Nightstallion 18:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I thought you might say that. I'll have to implement another solution... Cheers. The €T/C 23:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
What did you have in mind? —Nightstallion 08:06, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Added a new section called 'partially recognised territories' or something like that. Cyprus and Kosovo are the only ones in there. It seems to have quieted the many critics and drive-by edits to the page. Cheers. The €T/C 12:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Where did you get the title

Where did you get the idea to name the Hungarian referendum 2008 article a certain way? I really really hope you didn't just invent the title (which is incorrect in the "university fees" part, it's not just university fees but all higher education and vauge in the "medical fees part"). Hobartimus (talk) 12:52, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

OK meanwhile I see you replied at the talk page and also changed the one part the "university fees" part changed it, that's good because it's more correct but it seems from that that all formulations are your own work. I'll reply at the talk page Hobartimus (talk) 12:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll reply there, then, as well. —Nightstallion 13:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Templates on ideologies

C mon made some changes to almost every template on ideologies, basically introducing the "show/close" format. I don't agree with that and I personally prefer templates wothout "show" buttons because they are more simple, practical and manageable. As we disagree and no other user stated his opinion (let alone one in favour of the rollback in Template talk:Fascism, how can we reach to a consensus? Actually there is no consensus on his edits. What do you think about it? --Checco (talk) 14:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Frankly -- no idea, sorry... —Nightstallion 14:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Is it possible for an user to make changes which are accepted only by himself (even if only one or two users oppose them)? And do you really have no preference on the templates... think only about our templates about Italian political parties: would you like too see them with "show" buttons? --Checco (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, technically I suppose it should be discussed beforehand, but if it appears unlikely that there'll be too many people interested... I really don't know, sorry, and I'm split on whether I prefer show buttons in this case or not... —Nightstallion 15:16, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok. Obviously if you understand what you prefer, let us know it. --Checco (talk) 15:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Certainly will do so! :)Nightstallion 15:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
C mon and I agree on the fact that we need a broader discussion on the issue (see Template talk:Liberalism#Small or large?). As administrator, do you have any idea on what road to follow? --Checco (talk) 23:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
...and any opinion about Template talk:Liberalism#Thinkers? --Checco (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
At the village pump, possibly? —Nightstallion 17:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
C mon proposed a discussion in his talk page. Take a look at User:C mon/template. I don't know what the village pump is, but maybe you can tell it to C mon... --Checco (talk) 18:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


Hi Nightstallion - I've reverted your changes to the template {{Kosovo-bio-stub}}. The template was protected to stop people from editing it (specifically the icon) until the dispute over the template icon is resolved. Please read the talk page, which explains the situation, rather than starting a potential wheel war! Grutness...wha? 01:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, my mistake! —Nightstallion 08:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo, Serbia and Montenegro

Always wanted but forgot to tell you this - the Serbians point out that the atrocities and crimes that occurred in Kosovo were only due to the NATO bombing campaign. Of course, "what would be, if it would be" is erroneous thinking, but they mostly claim that if not for NATO's intervention (usually called aggression), there would've been no atrocities committed on Serbian behalf. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

P.S. See Template:Composition of the Parliament of Serbia

Palma attacked Kostunica and Velja for leading a terrifying and endangering policy; he also criticized the authorities for retreating ambassadors from Western countries in the first place. The Populist Coalition can no longer count on his municipality. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

P.P.S. Look who made a precedent by making an English version of his campaign website. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

So, Kostunica is being too nationalist even for Palma? Great! :)
The website's quite good... —Nightstallion 16:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Due to independence and cut-offs, medical supplies are no longer being supplied to the Serbs in Kosovo. The Kosovo Albanians now blocked this too. There is a lot of injured and very sick people down there, and according to the statement of the Kosovo Serb leader, they will be facing a humanitarian catastrophe.
The Bosnian Serbs watch carefully. If Serbia turns away from the European Union, Srbska would probably follow and block BH's integrations.
The Russian ambassador to Serbia stated that the attitudes are not changed, but he alluded that if this keeps going this way, Russia could too change its opinion and play along accepting a new world order. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Seriously? Russia would give in? I suppose they'd start splitting off Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Transnistria then, though, wouldn't they? —Nightstallion 17:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Only a possibility. The Russian ambassador alluded that, of course, that could include recognizing independence of Kosovo; but also that of Srbska.
In North Kosovo the crisis escalates even further. Negotiations between the Serbian company and UNMIK regarding the railway system have reached a moot end. Trains have been sent unilaterally without UNMIK's permission yesterday. The "Premier" of North Kosovo has stated that UNMIK will have to resort to use of force and to prepare for a fierce resistance if implied. A Serb demonstrator is severely injured.
In Montenegro, Vujanovic works on securing the Serbs' votes in an effort to massively defeat Medojevic in the second. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Ouch. Not good. —Nightstallion 20:06, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
He has to. The just required Albanian minority will most probably never again support Milo's lackeys, he can probably count on just a small part of their support, others will vote for Srdjan Milic, while most will boycott. Vujanovic promises the return of Cyrillic into Montenegrin life, is from Serbia, and has a history of good relations with the Serbs ("MonteSerbian" declared language, Guardian of the Serbian Orthodox Church's claims facing the Montenegrin Orthodox Church's property). Medojevic is just words and not acts; and the Serbs consider him a traitor after the Constitution's adoption. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
sighs I meant all of the info above, but yeah, that too... —Nightstallion 20:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Tricolour Right logo.jpg)

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Deletions in it.Wiki

As we approach to a general election, many articles about Italian political parties have been proposed for deletion (you can find a list [Wikipedia:Bar/Discussioni/Partiti Politici, Movimenti Politici, Associazioni Politiche italiani... su Wikipedia: chi sì? e chi no? here] or check here. I agree with some deletions, but some proposed deletions are incredible. Take a look for example at it:Cristiani Democratici per la Repubblica and it:Cristiani Democratici per le Libertà. If you want you can state your opinion in every single votation or, probably, you might want to save some contents of those articles in en.Wiki. --Checco (talk) 10:53, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Ouch... I'm afraid I haven't got the time to go through all of them right now, but I'll try to do it later... —Nightstallion 17:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
In some cases your vote is needed. Anyway, I controlled and the most important things up to deletion in it.Wiki are in en.Wiki too. When you have time, check! --Checco (talk) 18:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Ready and waiting

See User:TheFEARgod/2008 invasion of Anjouan. It is a matter of hours now, IMO. If the seccesionists, however, surrender before and Bacar flees, my efforts are doomed. ...joke --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Great work! —Nightstallion 17:43, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


SRS announced it will make a government with DSS after the election, but excluded the possibility to grant Kostunica the seat of Premier. DSS excluded the possibility to cooperate with DS or G17+ after the election, while the non-LDP democratic & pro-European forces will most probably be found on one list. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Heard about Macedonia? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Any chance G17+ will be able to convince the DS that the LDP should also be part of their coalition?
You mean have I heard about this? ;)Nightstallion 16:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Absolutely not. All of these others supported him at the presidential election. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
P.S. Croatia's next one on the impact after Bosnia (Bosniac Member of the Presidency just stated that BH is close to the situation it was in 1992, the only difference being greater international presence), Serbia and Macedonia. Croatia prepares to recognize independence of Kosovo by the end of the month, the Serbs announce to withdraw and bring down the government. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Damn. No chance at all? What about SPO, I thought G17+ is negotiating with them -- even though SPO didn't support Tadic?
You think the Serb party will actually withdraw? —Nightstallion 22:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes. It did.
Well if Croatia recognizes this month, probably.
All of former Yugo is going down like a domino. Vujanovic better go strategic on Kosovo during the campaign, or he'll join the mess.
The ANA is under pressure to remain quite by the Albanian political leaders, since UNMIK stated it won't forcefully enforce administration in Kosovo, it might go to fulfill its goal. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
sighs Wonderful. —Nightstallion 23:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Serbians organize a new massive protest on 17th March in front of the National Assembly, also at 12:44 (just like the Serb protest every single day in North Kosovo since 12:44). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:54, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Wonderful. That will help. —Nightstallion 23:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

1. fulfilling the amnesty and giving veteran status & special rights to Albanian national liberation rebels that fought in 2001.
2. equating the status of the Albanian language to that of the Macedonian in the country
3. proportional presence of ethnic Albanians in Macedonian institutions
4. presence of Albanian national flags in settlements with Albanian majority or significant minority
5. recognition of independence of Kosovo.

These are the Macedonian Albanians' demands, and only fulfilling them will save RoM from entering another crisis, similar to that one before. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, 2-3-5 don't sound that bad; I'd personally offer the establishment of a proper "Albanians-in-Macedonia"-flag to be used by the Albanians in Macedonia instead of the Albanian flag for 4. However, demand 1 sounds pretty horrible, frankly. —Nightstallion 09:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
In Serbia the rebels/terrorists/liberators that fought in the Presevo Valley at the very south from 1999 to 2001 are very honored. There is a monument dedicated to them in there, financed by the state of Serbia. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Mh. What do you think of the demands? And what do you think will happen in Macedonia, both regarding the name issue and the government? —Nightstallion 12:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
This is because originally the liberal democrat opposition supported anyone who fought against Slobodan Milosevic's tyranny, therefore also the Albanians. However little did change after when the it became that the guerrillas didn't fight (just) because of tyranny, but for a Great Albania. It later changed to just independent Kosovo and merger of Presevo to it.
Well, Greece announced to block it again, so nothing still this year. New elections this year, the only possibility is that the ethnic Macedonians enforce national unity and form a government without the Albanians. A solution as it is, it'd only further lead to division though. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I rather meant whether you think that Macedonia might be more willing to get close to Greece's position over the threat of NATO accession vetoes... And do you really think the conservatives and the social democrats could form a grand coalition? I doubt it... —Nightstallion 13:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
No chance.
I don't, but neither do I think they'll fulfill the Albanians' demands so... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I think they'll have to find some kind of compromise -- in both cases. —Nightstallion 16:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Another Macedonian Albanians' demand is closing all the files & investigations related to the 2001 conflict. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:08, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Mh. Any important investigations still open? —Nightstallion 21:11, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Er...just those about crimes committed by the Albanians' National Liberation Army. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:27, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Ahem... —Nightstallion 22:19, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Here's the poll after Kosovo declaration of independence:

  • SRS - 37%
  • DS - 34%
  • DSS - 7%
  • SPS - 6%
  • LDP - 6%
  • G17+ - 4%
  • NS - 3%
  • others - 3%

On other question, 44% of the asked said that EU is the primary goal of Serbia and 41% that Kosovo is, while the others (15%) think that others are more primary or are undetermined. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

So that's the following percentages for possible coalitions, then:
  • SRS-DSS-NS -- 47%
  • DS-G17+-LDP -- 44%
So no majority for either coalition without the Socialists. What do you think will be the changes as the election comes closer? Increases for SRS and DS at whose loss? —Nightstallion 13:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I think it'll pretty much remain this way. And yes, it seems that the SPS is now the key (rather than) DSS. They themselves stated they're open to join either side. Also note the other question. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Is the party still unreformed and pro-Milosevic, or what is its current stance? Do you think it could actually be part of a pro-European government? Tadic would work together with the LDP after elections despite not wanting them on his lists, though, would he?
And do you think that acceptance of Kosovan independence will become more widespread in Serbia over time, or not? —Nightstallion 13:57, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It's partially reformed, half-way to the Croatian HDZ, since it supports joining the EU. The others won't let it join the government, but a minority one with its support.
That doesn't really depend on Serbia, but how things play out within Kosovo itself and the rest of the world. For now Kosovo doesn't have majority international support as an independent country, and the chaos the Serbs face right now down there isn't helpful to the situation at all. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
So the best we could hope for would be a DS-G17+ minority government supported by LDP and SPS?
True enough, yeah... —Nightstallion 09:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


Completely by accident, I noticed a description of WikiData on your userpage. I immediately loved the idea, but by the looks at the links you provided, the discussion seems to be pretty much dead. Do you know if that's because people lost interest, or because the project was moved elsewhere? I did a quick search, but was unable to locate anything else of relevance. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:20, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't know... If you find out, please let me know... —Nightstallion 09:43, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Democratic Party

I would like to ask you to protect Democratic Party (Italy) from contributions by non-registered users, as almost every day one user inserts a senetence which is superficial and non-sense. --Checco (talk) 13:05, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, done. —Nightstallion 13:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! --Checco (talk) 13:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The same thing is happening to Civic Platform. What do you think about semi-protecting it too? --Checco (talk) 23:27, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Nightstallion 09:21, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Infinite semi-protection?

Could you please explain the infinite semi-protection on Democratic Party (Italy)? Infinite semi-protection should be used only in extreme cases, and I doubt this is an extreme case, since there's only a single IP user who's currently pushing his view of the things, so it could better be discussed in the talk page. --Angelo (talk) 09:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Once the issue has been resolved, we can quit the semi-protection at any time, but it's not like we'll be missing out on many valuable contributions by semi-protecting that page, will we? —Nightstallion 09:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
This is not a good argument. As WP:PROT states, indefinite semi-protection should be used only for pages which are subject to heavy vandalism, and this is definitely not the case. --Angelo (talk) 09:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
When an user continues to edit an article without even thinking of discussing the issue in talk page and is continously rollbacked by two users, this is definitely a case of heavy vandalism. --Checco (talk) 10:23, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
No. There's only a single user, in this case all you have to do is to try to deal with him. Did you try it? It seems you didn't, according to your contribution history. And in any case, you have to consider about blocking the lone IP user rather than protecting the whole article. This is not even a case of a short semi-protection. Keep in mind protecting pages is not a preemptive measure but merely a last remedy against vandalisms and edit wars. --Angelo (talk) 10:55, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I have no problems in dealing with him, but he should stop editing and go to the talk page, something he did not do yet. --Checco (talk) 11:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, start a discussion yourself, then. --Angelo (talk) 13:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, I said what I needed to say in the edit summaries: simply it is non-sense to say that riformista is something very different from "centre-left". --Checco (talk) 14:38, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
One thing is to explain this concept in a short summary, one other is to describe it more thoroughly in the best appropriate place, i.e. the article talk page. Btw, it's also a good way to avoid possible future misinterpretations. --Angelo (talk) 14:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


Eh...I suppose you heard the chance of cooperation between the UNMIK and Serbia anymore...the UNMIK has started a phased withdrawal across the river of Ibar from North Kosovo, leaving full independence to the Serb self-government and leaving behind only NATO's KFOR (slowly, all international organs retreated, over time). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I've heard it... Not good... —Nightstallion 18:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
The UNMIK has failed its final test. For 4 years it proved to be a failure, and then massive unrests escalated, leading to the moment that the Serbs and Albanians no longer trust into it. It has promised to conduct drastic reforms, another 4 years have passed and not only that the none of the promises have been fulfilled, but UNMIK has downgraded itself, rather than reformed. I think it'll be remembered as the worst international operation in the history of mankind...
Yesterday the negotiations were led with the Serbian authorities fine. A draft from the Minister for Kosovo-Metohija became the basis for a compromise, and the UNMIK excluded the usage of force. This morning, suddenly, the UNMIK forces assaulted the building, with overusage of force, and arrested the judges. The event triggered massive unrest across the northern city, as protesters attacked the columns in an effort to set free the captives and assaulted the peacekeepers. One UNMIK car sliced through a Medical Truck with personnel. The arrested were transported and handed over to the Albanian-dominated KPS, when there were reports of mistreatment and torture on their behalf.
The origins of the problem are in the local judges. They removed the UN flag on top of the building and replaced it with a Serbian, also deciding to judge by domestic Serbian laws, rather than international which are in power in Kosovo.
This brought Serbia and Russia together, which are now planning their reaction. Serbia has lodged an official protest to relevant international bodies. All possible confidence of the Serbians in the UNMIK has now been lost. What happens now? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
No idea. KFOR still enforces the border, doesn't it? —Nightstallion 20:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Nope. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I just don't get why the 17th, the 3rd anniversary of the 2004 March Anti-Serb Riots. They could've done it any other day, and they surely understood the situation. What lies in there? Stupidity? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I really don't know and don't understand it either. I still hope that the Serbs and Albanians will learn to live together and that Kosovo won't be partitioned, but it's just been pushed a decade further away, I think... —Nightstallion 13:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Where there must be something to it. Serbia and Kosovo's minority communities are fully convinced that the Albanian authorities have put UNMIK under fierce pressure to conduct this, in an effort to instill fear to the non-Albanians and promote their departure (Kostunica used the word "ethnic cleansing").
A decade? You're far too optimistic. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
P.S. An Ukrainian peace officer has been killed. Ukraine will withdraw all of their forces from Kosovo, while the French and Polish are considering about reinforcements. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, if I weren't optimistic about quite a lot of things in the future of the political world, I'd be pretty despaired...
Yeah, I heard. —Nightstallion 22:41, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
The rights of Muslims in Serbia are very low. Discrimination of Albanians and Gorans is high, and there are reports that anti-Magyar riots are being organized if Hungary recognizes independence of Kosovo.
In Croatia, the Albanian Communities have staged a hoax and threatened themselves (kill, die, burn, the usual). The Croatian police has contained them and is investigating the case, they seem to be payed by Albania's pro-Kosovo lobby, whose attempt is to discredit the Serbs in the face of the world.
There will not be peace between Albanians and Serbs, for at least a century... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
sighsNightstallion 14:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep, but the bad thing is that the majority of the population (openly) now stated that they'll treat it as an aggressor and occupation force and treat it as the Albanians had treated Milosevic.

Actually the real reason is because DSS offered NS only 20% of the total guaranteed seats in the province. There is no chance that they'll break up; what is occurring is now is total collapse of their supporters. Palma left them in favor of the Socialists and yet another minor party left to the Democrats. Their members in the local are crossing to the democrats and they are drastically losing popularity in general.

P.S. Nebojsa Medojevic accused Vujanovic for leading the same deceptive politics the party is leading since 1989 and that he intends to recognize Kosovo immediately after the election. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

P.S. A DPS (now former member) speaks out and writes a complaint to OSCE. He has been (allegedly) hired by Milo to forge votes in the Bijelo Polje municipality. The OSCE will respond by doubling its mission in Montenegro. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 09:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

So the DSS-NS will shrink even below 10% of the vote?
I suppose that doesn't really improve Nebojsa's chances, does it?
That's at least something... —Nightstallion 10:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
If Kosovo doesn't save them... (the "Kosovo is the Heart of Serbia" campaign"). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
nodsNightstallion 15:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it does (Meda). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:50, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Really? How so? I thought Montenegrins were largely against it? —Nightstallion 20:27, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
The 'he' was referring to Vujanovic and not Medojevic. ;) Sorry for the confusion. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:15, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see. —Nightstallion 18:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

The now former prosecutor Carla del Ponte publishes highly shocking details. Her work jeopardizes the pursuit for Ratko Mladic, as she openly gives all the details and plans for his search.

She publishes that Soren Peterson has, perfectly aware of Ramush Haradinaj's war crimes, continually protected him from harm, also insisting upon his remaining in the Kosovar political world. She writes that although all charges against Hashim Thaci have been dropped, there is a certain case that can be built up against him. Ponte also claims the UNMIK is overprotective of the ethnic Albanians and that its leaders, like the current one, have took up illegal construction and are grossly corrupt, knowingly and silently sitting through and letting the Albanian mafia conduct extermination of witnesses for Haradinaj's case, who, though a "bloodthirsty gangster", will most probably be released for lack of evidence. She also claims that not only drug smuggling and Al Qaeda donations have been the financial source for KLA, but also black market - selling organs. At least 300 of the missing non-Albanians have been kidnapped from Kosovo and taken to internment camps in northern Albania, where their organs and limbs have been sold across the Albanian mafia, which is headed by Thaci's brother in law.

Serbia has been investigating these cases, but conflict with the Albanians over Kosovo has disabled anything. But now, after publishing the ICTY's secret documents which confirm Serbia's claims about a mass grave of ethnic Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania (KLA's victims), President Boris Tadic announced internationalizing the investigation.

In addition to that, Ponte says that most of the ICTY judges live(d) in fear that the Albanians will get to them through their links, although she herself has never been frightened. In addition to that, she again repeated that the CIA has been and still is constantly obstructing investigation of Albanian-perpetrated atrocities and is constantly oppressing the ICTY.

This all will affect the election. Big time. Also a worthwhile thing to mention is that according to the latest poll, over 80% Serbians don't believe/dislike the European Union, and almost 100% the West in general. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes I get the impression that del Ponte really has NO CLUE about timing. sighsNightstallion 15:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Might be interesting to also mention that the Serbian swimmer Milorad Čavić broke the European record, but violated the game's practice by introducing politics, with "Kosovo is Serbia" written in his T-Shirt. The European Commission has decided to suspend him, causing a massive public outrage in Serbia.
In addition to that, the USA have (officially) broken UNSCR 1244 by starting armament of the new State of Kosovo, for a strong Army of Kosovo to be created. The Russian Duma responded fiercely to this and insinuated the possibility of similar arming of Serbia. The Russian Parliament's speaker thinks that Serbia should be invited into Russia's defensive alliance and the Community of Independent States. It seems that Medvedev shares his thought, as he crossed it to Nikolic while supporting him for President. Today Nikolic for the first time publicly declared he'd support such a move. SPS, who was thought that it will decide the future government, chose a side.
I'm starting to think that the opinion of some political analysts in former Yugoslavia that the US is trying intentionally to bring the 'patriots' to power. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Erm, no, certainly not the European Commission, the EU has got nothing to do with the European Swimming Championships; it's a general rule of sports organisations that politics are not allowed. It would be the same if a Tibetan swimmer wore something like "Free Tibet", so the outrage in Serbia is absolutely incomprehensible to me.
So, the SPS has decided it will support the SRS?
Do you mean so that the public sees how badly they govern...? —Nightstallion 16:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I meant. As I pointed out, he violated the rule. Kosovo declared independence a month ago. Senseless rage and growing nationalist anger to any Kosovo-related thing is incomprehensible to you?
No, it stated that SPS-PUPS-JS will form a coalition with DSS-NS. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
sighs I'm just wishing that more people would be at least rational enough to see when something is against Serbia and when it's a general rule...
Bah, bad enough. That more or less certainly means the Radicals will govern, doesn't it?
... you mean that the US want Serbia to experience a (hopefully bad) SRS government, or what's the perceived intention? —Nightstallion 17:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
No, but to install national conservative and isolationist political forces in now broken former Yugoslavia, in order to disable any sort of national reconciliation or cooperation between them, making them choose the far-distant great powers to actually talk to each other. I'm not talking about Western Europe, I'm talking about Bush's administration, which obviously supports in every way (for political interests) HDZ in Croatia, SDA in BH and DPS CG in Montenegro. In Serbia, the DS presents a power which has not ruled throughout the 1990s and is not conservative or controversial.
And like a beautiful sugar on top, the Croatian and Hungarian foreign ministers have apologized to the Serbian for recognizing independence of Kosovo stating that they were under fierce pressure from the US, which they couldn't hold out any more.
Well yeah, but Kostunica will probably be PM again... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 18:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Argh. Sometimes, I wish Bush'd just drop dead. sighs
Have you got a source for the foreign ministers' statements? Haven't heard that yet... —Nightstallion 19:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Saw the Foreign Minister's statement today on TV.
I just hope the West, for now, understands that an average Serb looks at it like at a fascist groupie that wants to do nothing but harm. As Dimitri Roupel said, Serbia or the Serb People have had so far no greater gain from the West and there is no real rational reason to expect a pro-EU forces victory. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
True enough, sadly... —Nightstallion 21:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Due Sicilie > Two Sicilies

I would move Due Sicilie to Two Sicilies, coherently with almost every article on Italian political parties. Do you agree with me? And, if yes, will you do it? --Checco (talk) 11:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I've done the move, but to Two Sicilies (political party). --Checco (talk) 11:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

German 2014 Commemorative - Can you clarify?

There seems to be some confusion between St. Michael's Church in Hildesheim and St. Andrew's Church in Hildesheim (in the same section both names are shown). Is it possible to verify this fact, and if feasible, reference it? Then there will be no doubt. Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I really don't see the confusion. The original design was going to be the town hall in Hildesheim, then St. Michael's Church. It looks like now the design is going to be St. Andrew's Church. The issue date is still nearly 6 years away and it seems a little premature to verify any facts, as the designs this far out are still subject to change. For example, the design of Hamburg's issue changed twice before the final design was agreed upon, just 20 months before the issue date. It is stated in the article €2 commemorative coins#German Bundesländer series (which I am guessing is the article you are referring to), that '...some designs are not yet finalised and still subject to change...' . In short, it is near impossible to nail down, let alone verify, any facts regarding the Euro until after the official documentation is provided via the Official Journal of the European Union. Aside from that publication, there is the German Bundesgesetzblatt, which almost always has information relative to the future designs of the Euro. On a personal note- it is maddening to try and stay atop the ever changing world of the Euro designs and issues (trust me, I'm in the business). It is best to take a wait and see approach to the matter... you may even save your head of hair- which is more than I can say for myself- I'm nearly bald from the worrying I wish I hadn't done at the beginning of my job 11 years ago. Cheers. The €T/C 12:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Precisely -- first, it was Hildesheim, then St Michael's, now it's St Andrew's. —Nightstallion 14:43, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

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Maja Gojkovic

...speaks about the accusing for treason within SRS as standard practice for anyone who thinks otherwise. She stated she was regularly blocked from access to TV and that now it has come to her to be tagged "traitor". Her civic group will run locally as a representative of the political center, while she is negotiating to support Tadic's coalition in the parliamentary. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 09:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Great! :)Nightstallion 09:55, 23 March 2008 (UTC)