User talk:Nil Einne

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I rarely check the email associated with this account so do leave a message here if you've sent me an email or I probably won't see it for a long time.


Misplaced messages[edit]

{{You've got mail}} Max Weber83 (talk) 00:05, 12 June 2012 (UTC) Hello, I only use this account now :) I'm sorry, I just want to help, but it's hard finding 100% reliable sources. Thank you for the help, that's fine. Did I do it the right way this way? Archives: User talk:Nil Einne/Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3

can you please actually upload the tor image from the ref desk[edit]


I know you linked to two services, but they don't work. I don't use tor. can't you just upload the images - if you can see them - to imgur? this takes like 18 seconds from start to pasting the image here. thanks. (talk) 07:21, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I didn't upload the images partially because of copyright reasons even if it will probably fall under fair use (outside wikipedia I mean) but also because it seemed a good case of people helping themselves. But in any case, since the question is likely to remain closed, I don't see much point. As I indicated earlier, it may be more helpful if you work out why the images aren't working for you. They are working for at least one other participant, Tevildo. I've tested them on two different connections and they work. You may need to click on "I agree with terms, let me access the content" the first time you try to access the Tor proxy (or I guess every time if you don't save cookies). And since it's a proxy it does seem a little slow at times, but they seem to always work.
If your ISP has major problems, bear in mind I'm not sure I would use Imgur even if I were to upload, and I'm not sure it's resonable to expect people to use a specific image hosting service just because a person has such major problems unless they're specifically asking for your help. In that case, may be it's worth looking in to Tor, or some similar service to get around your ISP problems?
I guess it's possible your ISP is blocking just Tor proxies out of fear they will be used to access child pornography or something. If you're sure you don't have general internet connection problems but none of the Tor proxies seem to work at all, I can probably upload the image to some site for your personal use only. Here's another . One final one, a different service which has ads and has a different message ("I know what I'm doing") you need approve the first time https://6lw4pg2wsy475d7q. . Also because of the wikipedia blacklist on onion sites affects this proxy, I had to seperate the . and onion. If you can work out how to use Imgur, I'm sure you can work out how to fix the link.
Nil Einne (talk) 13:39, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Nil. The final link (the one with 'i know what I'm doing') worked for me. The other ones simply don't - regardless of how many PC's you tried them on, etc :). I have no idea why you wrote three paragraphs above, but thanks for the last link, which is all I needed to see the image. Thanks. By the way, though it doesn't have any psychological affect on me, I do find the image rather disconcerting. I can certainly see how someone might be a bit freaked out by it, especially if they're in some kind of weird state of mind (it's night-time, they live alone, they're depressed, whatever.) I have no such thing and was in a cheerful mood but still found that image a bit off-putting. So while I doubt it has any effect on the brain, cognition, etc, I can certainly see it as an affective [sic, though chrome underlines this word] work of art. (to put it one way.) (talk) 16:52, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

why the hell are you wasting my time with a witch hunt.[edit]

I like your posts, we've interacted before. now look, here I have to read like 800 words from you:

>Sluzzelin reverted your closure of my comment and have done the same. The OP can be as polite as they want in their question, the fact of the matter is their username translates to "French people are racist" not "Are French people racist" (which would be "Adalah orang Perancis perkauman?" or similar). Note I didn't comment on the OP's username or in any other way on the RD other than to provide a what I feel is a resonably accurate translation. Yes I did use the word "roughly", that's mostly because I'm concious of the fact words or phrases don't always have perfect translations, although in reality in this case I don't think it's particularly far off the mark. While I admit, my Malay is not as good as it once was (although I did check just to make sure I wasn't mistaken about the word perkauman) I'm perfectly willing to AGF when called for, but I do not see any other logical translation of this name and so there's nothing to AGF about. If you believe there's a far more innocous translation of their username, feel free to present it and I will apologise to the OP and to you. I did suggest on the OP's talk page they need to change their username ASAP or face a block, but that doesn't relate to the RD. The reality is, if the had called themselves "French people are racist", they likely would already be blocked and I did consider a straight UAA report which I do believe as justifiable in a case like this. I will AGF this wasn't intentional and that the OP wasn't aware that their username was a violation. As far as I'm concerned, people are free to respond to the OP if they wish, presuming the OP changes their username it can even stay a two way conversation. OTOH, if an editor is going to call themselves "French people are racist" they should expect people may not wish to respond or will respond differently. (At the very least, if an editor doesn't understand why such a username is offensive, that suggests answers may need to be tailored appropriately. If the editor realises it is offensive, but thinks it's an example of freedom of speech, they don't really understand the concept that well, and how it applies to somewhere like wikipedia.) Note in particular there's a big difference between saying, as 91 said, that in my experience "French people are extremely racist", which can be taken as expressing a general sentiment on society (whether accurate or excessively stereotypical or not) and also is in response to a specific question in an appropriate place, and going around with a username that says "French people are racist" which could be interpreted to mean all French people are racist (a highly bigoted statement), and also as a username so something which will be encountered wherever you edit. Nil Einne (talk) 01:37, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

(please note that I'm also 91!!!) Okay, so I've read the above. It took me over a minute. It must have taken at least 10 minutes to write. What a complete waste of time. You're suggesting BLOCKING the OP for having a certain name? While you let Baseball Bugs blatantly troll (like, "Fuck you", "Shut your trap" etc). Slow down, get off of your witch hunt. You need to assume good faith, completely NOT go on a witchhunt when nobody other than you cares about the OP's name. Your response is completely inappropriate. You're wasting a TON of our time. And the fact that you posted it makes the reference desk a lot worse. Why would you even go on a witch hunt against an OP? Their question stands just fine. You do not need to go around blocking people.

Seriously You hae waaaaaaaaaaay better things to do than this. You're wasting minutes of our time. Why would you do this? Also, can you please do something about baseball bugs just blatantly trolling (just look at his history, no context is needed - every so many edits, he'll just put in some random crap.) (talk) 01:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Also. . . read OP's very carefully-worded, very-earnest and open-ended (not leading) question "1. How racist is French society?" which could have been answered by anyone with any reference. I gave one (and my experience), though I didn't in detail compare it with other cultures. Since I'm a white, male, European, obviously for me to notice and be bothered by shocking levels of racism by the French, the bar is very high. I gave a reference that indicates some of this. Others could have responded as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with such a sociological question. It's totally obvious that OP is quite ignorant about our society, since he asks questions (2 and 3) that are really obvious. "2. Does freedom of speech include ... blasphemy" is totally obvious, in our society obviously it's absolutely no problem for anyone to say "there is no God" under any circumstances. it's just a non-issue. but in Islamist countries this can get you punished by the state itself. (Something all the other readers, including you, might not have realized.) This is why the OP asked. His third question about violent retaliation ("3. Does freedom of speech mean that victims of [...] blasphemy speech cannot retaliate [violently]?") is also obvious: yes, obviously, you cannot retaliate violently and against the laws of society even if someone claims your God does not exist. This is also completely obvious to us. (But it's not obvious to him, since he's young, and since his perspective as outlined earlier reads "Here we believe that such extreme racism, if not stopped by the goverment, will lead to violence, which is what happened in France".) For him violence is natural, he makes this quite clear. I find his questions very easy to parse and to answer, and feel your witch hunt given the HUGE amount of attention put into sharing his perspective and asking for an answer very carefully, is absolutely distracting and unwarranted. it has no place on wikipedia. (talk) 02:04, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I think you're quite mistaken if you think no one is going to care that the OP has a username "French people are racist".
Also, I can't block anyone as I'm not an admin. But I'm confident that if the OP becomes active again and doesn't ask for a rename, a report to WP:UAA will result in a block. As I said already, in reality the only reason the OP survived this long is precisely because most people didn't understand their username. An English username which says the same thing would likely have been quickly blocked the moment anyone noticed it. I know this because I've been around in enough places to know such usernames are routinely blocked.
Oh, and I don't see how providing a translation of the username the the OP specifically chose is "completely inappropriate". What is inappropriate is trying to hide this information which is likely to be of interest to participants for numerous reasons like I mentioned. In fact, you seem to be contradicting yourself if you're suggesting that no one will care, than you also say that that my response was inappropriate. If no one cares, than my response is irrelevant and doesn't need to be closed so urgently that you tried it 2 (or 3?) times.
As for BB, well I find them annoying at times, but blocking them is going to be far, far, far, far more difficult than getting someone with a username "French people are racist" blocked, I assure you. Unfortunately, as I've said to TRM and others before, the more we waste time on stuff which should be simple like providing a translation of the OPs offensive username, the less likely there's any hope to deal with such issues.
And yes, I do find this waste of time frustrating. I probably didn't need to write such a long response here or before, but I find it incredibly annoying, not to mention offensive when I'm accused of not AGF for simply reporting what an offensive non English username actually means (and giving the account with the violating username the chance to rename before they are blocked). While I did right most of my first response before I even noticed your second hatting, the fact you did so would seem to be good evidence of need to defend myself.
While BB may disagree, you are of course entitled to try and get our Wikipedia:Username policy changed. I think the chance you'll ever find any agreement to allow a username like "French people are racist" stand slim though. Remember, while there's a good chance the OP here may do little more on wikipedia, we're talking general principles here. Do you really think people are going to accept a large number of edit log enteries and signatures like "French people are racist", "Muslims are sexists" etc? (Will you at least accept a username like "Muslims are terrorists" & "Liberals are baby killers" aren't going to be acceptable?)
Note as I already said, I was solely responding to the OPs username and not the question. The OP can be as careful as they want in the question, ultimately they choose to call themselves "French people are racist". Let's remember all I actually did until you called upon me to respond further (and this was only to you), was inform other people of what the username actually said, and also warned the OP that if they didn't change their username ASAP, they will almost definitely be blocked until they changed their bigoted and therefore offensive and disruptive username. I specifically didn't comment on why the OP may have chosen such username.
You seem to be ignoring the actual issue of discussion which is the OPs username, and are insteading concentrating on the OP question, despite the fact I've said already, and I think my initial response was clear enough that it's not the issue. Remember the username was ultimately the OPs choice, not me or anyone else. If they didn't want to sent a message with the username, then they shouldn't have chosen it.
As I mentioned, even if they really didn't understand why their username would be offensive, this in itself is likely to provide additional information beyond that coming from the question. If they did understand but chose it anyway, that's another point of information. Intentionally or not, they may have partially masked it, by choosing a language they understood, but most people didn't. Either way they should still have been aware that someone could have come along at any time who understood the username. (If they really didn't think there was any possibility someone would understand it, that in itself says something as well.)
How people chose to deal with being made aware of the OPs username is up to them. Some may try to understand where the OP is coming from with such a username. Others may simply choose to ignore someone who chose such a username whatever the reason behind that. Yet others, like yourself, may feel it makes no different to them. That's fine but it's not up to you to decide that people shouldn't be aware that the OP has chosen an offensive username.
P.S. In any case, it looks like there's no need to speculate, BB has reported the OP to UAA. Even tho I doubt that OP is going to become active again, and I was thinking it better to hold off for a variety of reasons including giving the OP the chance to rename without a block, it's likely the OP will simply be blocked. Of course as with any simple username violation, the OP would be free to ask for a rename and be unblocked. Unless of course the OP has managed to convince people they are simply trolling. If that happens, you can't blame me for not AGF when it's others who are the ones harsher than me and put the OP in to the trolling rather than the unblock with username change cat.
P.P.S. The funny thing is you keep suggesting I'm not AGF when in reality as I hinted above, it's likely that others are going to be far less generous than me. E.g. they may assume it's no coincidence the OP was careful in their question to come across as trying to understamd, even though their username suggests they've already made up their mind but done so in a language not likely to be understood for a while. I've chosen not to go that far, and instead accept that there may be a number of reasons why the OP chose such a username. And as I said before, while my Malay may not be excellent, I'm confident that my grammar here is correct. And further, I'm confident in saying it would take someone with a very poor understanding of Malay grammar to not appreciate the difference between "Orang Perancis Adalah Perkauman" and "Adalah Orang Perancis Perkauman?", something that's not particularly likely for someone who can actually work out how to compose the sentence at all. In other words, whatever the reason, the OP said what they meant to say with their username.
Nil Einne (talk) 02:54, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Actually I had a nagging feeling I was slightly wrong, and thinking and a bit of reading confirms it should probably be "Adakah Orang Perancis Perkauman?" not "Adalah Orang Perancis Perkauman?" (although the later isn't likely to be intepreted in any other way). Nil Einne (talk) 03:01, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Just answering one part[edit]

You wrote:

>I think you're quite mistaken if you think no one is going to care that the OP has a username "French people are racist".

Yes, of course. Once you succeed in a pointless disruptive witch hunt and find something to waste people's time with they will care. (This required a translation.) If you enjoy insight and understanding, then you are insane, because you are creating an environment where you cannot get it. Look at all the rest of this pointless crap you've written above after this line. I'm not even going to read it. waste of my time and yours. Do you know how much more interesting stuff you could have discussed if you weren't disrupting?

Like, seirously "Do you think nobody is going to care what OP's name translates to if we successfully dig it up"? What's wrong with you. That is insane. It means you're a horrific person. The kind of person I would go out of my way to ever interact with. If that's what you want, that is fine. if you want insight, references, understanding, interesting knowledge, then don't work toward the opposite. I hope you will reflect and help build civility rather than antagonism. but I suspect you just enjoy wasting your time. I haven't read a word of the rest of your spiel above. (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Dig what up? As my user page says, I understand Malay to a moderate degree having had nearly the entirety of my primary and secondary education in Malay. I didn't dig anything up. I recognised what the name meant the moment I read it. Upon seeing this, I had a quick check to make sure I wasn't mistaken (as it was a serious accusation), then mentioned this on the RD and also suggested the OP change their name ASAP. I did expect if they didn't do something, it's likely they would be blocked, but I personally probably wouldn't have taken it further or commented any more on the issue, particularly if they didn't show up on the RD again under that username.
The simple fact is, offensive usernames in other languages are regularly blocked, not because anyone digs anything up, but because wikipedia is a community of people who speak many different languages. And therefore if someone can come up with an offensive username in some language, particularly if it's one they actually understand, there's a good chance someone else will similarly understand it, without needing to dig anything up. (Were it not for me, it's possible Crisco 1492 would have noticed that username, although I'm not sure since "perkauman" isn't the common term for racism in Indonesian AFAIK, Rasisme is.)
Oh, and one point you seem to be missing is that being part of a community means accepting the standards of the community. And in the case of wikipedia, that includes accepting that certain highly offensive usernames are unwelcome. Building civility includes rejecting such antagonist (intentionally or not) actions by others such as having such an absurdly offensive username, and asking them to change or leave. As I said to the OP, and to you above, I personally never suggested the OP wasn't welcome, simply that they had to change their username if they wanted to stick around, as it was highly offensive (and for related reasons I also pointed out this username on the RD).
And let's not forget the basic point here. That username was offensive even if many people don't understand it on en.wikipedia. Personally I don't really care that much, not because I don't find the name offensive, but more because just too stupid to worry about. But I can perfectly understand how some people won't feel the same, particularly French people or those with some sort of connection to them. If the OP is going to stick around with that username, there's no way you can ensure no such person sees the username. There are surely some French people who speak Malay, as well as people who speak Malay who have some sort of connection to French people, as well as simply people who don't see why they should tolerate such offensive nonsense (and that's entirely their right) who speak Malay. People should have to put up with offensive i.e. uncivil (intetionally or not) usernames just because you have this wacky idea AGF or civility means we aren't allow to point out people have such a username, as well as ask them to change it.
BTW, fact of the matter is, if BB hadn't noticed this and reported it to UAA, there's slight chance this would have flown under the radar any way. Even though BB's actions prevented that, your actions basically ensured even without BB this was unlikely to happen as you succeeded in drawing far, far greater attention to the issue than my simple comment, or BB's pointless reply ever would have by themselves. I'm perfectly fine with AGF that you genuinely thought you could help in some way, but it doesn't take much experience with the RD, or with the internet or even life in general to figure out what was likely to result.
Nil Einne (talk) 04:52, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Some baklava for you![edit]

Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG For helping avert a potential tear-filled disaster! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 19:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

"I don't really understand what you're suggesting"[edit]

you wrote (this is now quite high scrolled up so I'm replying to you directly):

I don't really understand what you're suggesting. Once the panel has been scratched, it's no longer a secret. So you can't transfer it or anything to a third party. You could require a new note for every transfer, but as I already mention that would be expensive, time consuming and fairly pointless considering the plenty of alternatives which would work better since you are after all relying on a centralised system, or at least some networked system. Nil Einne (talk) 11:45, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
I mean you scratch it some place to both verify and transfer to a secure version, which still doesn't need much physical security. So here's how it would work. The ticket serial number (let's say EA9824397324) is like a currency serial number, public. The secret might not be a secret, you don't know where it's been, someone could have already copied and used it, by peeking through the scratch-off before you ever got it.
You connect via SSL to the central authority (or blockchain) and enter the serial number (printed visible) - and to your relief you see "Unused. use now?" with a button Submit that lets you transfer it to another serial number. You would like to make it go from being an insecure one, you don't know where it's been or who has it, it can disappear at any time, to a secure one. Now you have a roll of tickets that you KNOW haven't been scanned, you got them from the government, they're somewhat tamper-evident and have been in your possession, aren't worth scamming you personally over by surreptitiously scanning them or replacing them with compromised versions or whatever. So you scratch off the one it just said is so far unused, and under 'secret' you see '40954384845794987234' or whatever. So while the 'secret' (in the crypto sense) might be known by someone who had compromised it, if you type in a new serial number that you know has never been peaked through (and you don't know what's under the scratch-off either), then you don't know what will happen when you click submit after also typing hte secret 40954384845794987234 . Maybe a thief clicked submit first (after copying the 'secret' despite selling it to you as though retained as a secret), and you will get the message, "Sorry, this has already been transferred 0.7 seconds ago, to serial _________. This ticket is void.", Fuck. Maybe it's a totally fabricated ticket and it says "That is not the 'secret' for this serial number." That's the risk when the 'secret' could be compromised. But if you see "Success! Now transferred to serial _______ and the original _____ is now void" you're free to tear up the old ticket, and anyway nobody would accept it as anyone who enters just the serial (e.g. if you repaint over the 'secret' part or reprint that serial number) can see that it's without value.
So, here we have a way of taking an untrusted non-secret and moving it to an actual secret. The only requirements are an SSL connection, centralized authority, and very little by way of physical security. Cryptographically (the sense in which I mean) does this actually work? It creates a bearer instrument with much lower security requirements than cash has, since it's a measure of trust between phsyical security (like dollar bills, massive numbers of features) and no piece of paper at all. It can cost $0.02 to manufacture. And yes you may have to use one for every transaction, tough luck. In fact if people rely on it and trust the person who's been handling it, they might not need to a new transfer all the time though. Thoughts? (talk) 11:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


Hi Nil Einne! I really appreciated your contributions to WP:RDS#causes of condom failure (particular given the poor quality responses it initial received), but I wondered if in your latest edit your meant to write "onerous" instead of "odorous". -- ToE 18:15, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, it finally archived. I'm amazed that no one in the peanut gallery took a snipe at it. -- ToE 12:29, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment, you're right and I've belatedly corrected it. Sorry for not responding earlier, I have a tendency to ignore the "orange box of doom" unless it looks absolutely essential, precisely because of the possibility of the "of doom" part applying (even if it's no longer such a clear orange box). In this case I also got a message from the OP which I was thinking of responding to. Nil Einne (talk) 12:36, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


Yes 6Trillion was blocked for a username violation, but they were also clearly NOTHERE - I felt WoolSalesman was the same, given both their name and their edits. But I'm happy to unblock and AGF/ROPE. GiantSnowman 13:43, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Magnum Crimen[edit]

Before posting any warning on anyone's page, please, be advised to learn the problem nature you are trying to address. There were no copyright violation in the article. First, the text, dated 2015, is a copy of the Wikipedia Magnum Crimen written in 2010. Since the time is not running backward and the Magnum Crimen is copyrighted by Wikipedia, there was no copyright violation on the Wikipedia side. Second, the two sentences taken earlier from the Oscar Neumann book review were correctly quoted and attributed to the author and put in the article. [[User: Timbouctou|Timbouctou] claimed several times that the whole Neumann's book review was verbatim copied into Magnum Crimen which falsehood is online provable and verifiable. The same explanation, more detailed and repeated, can be found on the Magnum Crimen talk page.--Michelle Ridomi (talk) 12:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring at ANI[edit]

Stop icon

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

Ok I have to warn you that edit warring by deleting my comments at ANI is pretty dumb.
Actually whats dumb is the way you've dealt with this. I could easily revert you again and report you to WP:AN/EW since you're a self confessed block evader so 3RR doesn't apply to me. (And anyway, since someone else reverted you, you broke 3RR anyway so I could report you without further action.) I won't bother since there's no point until someone actually deals with you. You've frankly been given a lot of latitude on the thread, but instead of taking the smart course and behaving resonably, you've instead chosen to do dumb shit which almost guarantees you're going to be ignored, regardless of whether anything you're saying has merit. Nil Einne (talk) 13:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
BTW, it sounds like you also need to learn to count. I only did 3 reverts, not 4. Nil Einne (talk) 13:58, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Oh and although your warning had no influence, I didn't actually do anything to your comments since you warned me. I only replied to some of your slightly more resonable comments. Again, you need to pay more attention before throwing around accusations. Although I'm starting to think others are right and you're a troll. Even if you're not, it seems like I'm not going to help you appreciate the folly of you ways if you actually want to have an influence on wikipedia content. Either way, not much point be replying to you further. Nil Einne (talk) 14:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


Delighted to see you endorse my style of archiving. Unfortunately you have not done it for a while so I decided to give you some help. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 15:08, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion[edit]


This is a notification to let you know that there is a requested move discussion ongoing at Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/April_2015_move_request#Requested_move. You are receiving this notification because you have previously participated in some capacity in naming discussions related to the article in question.

Thanks. And have a nice day. NickCT (talk) 18:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


Hi, I nominated the 65th FIFA Congress and Sepp Blatter's reelection as president of FIFA for ITN, especially amid the controversy about the corruption at the moment. If you want you can take a look here: Lucky102 (talk) 17:42, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


Why did you revert my edit on AN ? KoshVorlon Rassekali ternii i mlechnye puti 19:56, 31 May 2015 (UTC)


You assumed good faith about the deletion from the Reference Desk. Good for you. It didn't look to me like a good-faith deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:07, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I was actually wondering that as well and was thinking of putting a "(I hope)" or something similar but didn't bother in the end. The first deletion could have been completely unexpected since the mediawiki does seem to very occasionally do that if you get an edit conflict. Happening twice in a row seems fairly unlikely though. I was thinking there is a possibility the editor got an edit conflict and simply copied everything and pasted it, which would be wrong (well unless they were planning to fix it but I intervened before they managed to but I doubt that), but not an intentional deletion per se. Nil Einne (talk) 02:51, 9 June 2015 (UTC)


Nil, SM pinged me so I answered, end of story. Beyond the point that I don't understand what you mean with your question, if you want to continue to argue the ref desk thread two days after it was archived, please unarchive it rather than expect me to continue within the archival. I see no point in that given Iblis has basically conceded the matter, and the removal policy is still in place. μηδείς (talk) 21:38, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Both of you continued discussion in the archived thread without reopening it, so it was entirely reasonable for me to do so as well. Regardless of who pinged who, both of you had the option of either unarchiving it, or simply not responding. Since you both choose to instead simply continue the discussion in the archived thread, it's entirely resonable for others to likewise do so.
If you don't wish to respond further, that's entirely up to you, but the fact it's archived is no more relevant than it was when you previously chose to respond. The fact that it's been 2 days is also irrelevant. Nothing has significantly changed since then, and it's unresonable to expect people to follow the RD talk page with such regularity that they need to respond to unurgent matters in less than 2 days. Even more so when the discussion was closed before those 2 days.
To some extent SM as the person who first responded after the thread had been archived can be said to have greater responsibility to either unarchive the thread, or not respond when it was archived, but ultimately each person, including me, has to accept what they did and can't fault others for their decisions.
Anyway, the point you seem to be missing, is that there is no policy that we must always remove every question that contains anything that can be remotely construed as a request for medical advice. The wording you quoted makes this clear. It says we may remove it. Since you regularly provide English language advice at RDL, I'm going to assume I don't need to provide a dictionary to help you understand what 'may' means.
Nothing in the guideline you quoted says we must definitely removing everything which contains anything which can be remotely construed as a request for medical advice.
However what the guideline you quoted does effectively say is we will not provide medical diagnosis. Specifically "We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis". (Again, you yourself quoted this.) While some people intepret this to mean simply that nothing we say is medical diagnosis, the much more widely accepted definition is that it's not acceptable to provide anything which is basically medical diagnosis (even if you say it isn't).
Therefore when someone, like Count Iblis provides something which everyone else agrees is medical diagnosis, this is completely inappropriate and far worse than a question which can be construed as a request for medical advice but isn't really that clear. Count Iblis had the option of either not responding, removing the question or simply reinterating that we don't provide medical diagnosis. I would have supported any three of these options. What was never an option was to provide medical diagnosis. And as I've already said several times, in a question which wasn't ever a clear cut request for such.
I don't understand why you bring up Count Iblis conceding the point. You response only came after this happened. It's not a new detail. So again, it's no more relevant now, than it was when you first responded.
If you're going to make claims unsupported by the actual guidelines, it's resonable for people to challenge them, and while you are free to ignore such challenges, you don't get to say you don't have to respond because it doesn't matter, when the reason you claim it doesn't matter already existed when you first made the claim.
P.S. The primary reason we do remove clear cut requests for medical diagnosis/advice, is not because such questions are super evil. But because long history has shown that leaving them be is a bad idea since someone will come along who will provide what most consider unacceptable medical diagnosis. While some such as SM believe that was should just get harsher the answers, IMO history has shown this doesn't work. Regardless however, one thing that is clear is that the bad answers which provide medical diagnosis which we aren't supposed to are the main problem. Not the genuine questions themselves, which ultimately are harmless of no one responds to them (or simply reinterate the point).
Trolling questions are another matter, but trolling is IMO a problem whether it's a request for medical advice or a question which would be entirely without the purview of the RD were it not for the fact it's trolling.
And I don't think it's clear that the question of concern was trolling. Even if it was, it seems fairly unlikely the OP could have predicted that someone would provide medical advice. (The question was a bit weird, but the most likely answers were not those containing medical advice. And if there was a trolling angle it was surely not based on the prediction that someone would provide medical advice and a constroversy would so erupt.)
Nil Einne (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Moving Burma to Myanmar - new 2015 poll[edit]

You participated in a Burma RM in the past so I'm informing you of another RM. I hope I didn't miss anyone. New move attempt of Burma>Myanmar Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:51, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the support[edit]

...on my recent unblock request. I promise I won't make you end up looking foolish. See you around the project. Useitorloseit (talk) 19:49, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Ref Desk[edit]

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Hello, Nil Einne. You have new messages at Joseph A. Spadaro's talk page.
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A barnstar for you![edit]

Peace Barnstar Hires.png The Barnstar of Diplomacy
Regarding your explanation (repeatedly) of your content deletion at the BLPN. Liz Read! Talk! 00:15, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you for providing help in explaining Commons licensing and commons:Commons:OTRS to others.

Most appreciated,

Cirt (talk) 01:09, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Hopefully I said something useful to someone there. I probably won't be replying further, tend to write often long messages with a few replies then abandon the conversation to avoid getting in to long drawn out conversations. Nil Einne (talk) 02:07, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Timothyhere sock?[edit]

Hi. You have been mentioned in relation to μηδείς (talk) 03:13, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Rajkumar Kanagasingam[edit]

Some time ago you participated at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rajkumar Kanagasingam. As the article has recently been recreated, and nominated again for deletion, you are invited to participate in the new discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rajkumar Kanagasingam (2nd nomination). —Psychonaut (talk) 10:50, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

minor edit[edit]

I took the liberty of editing one of your RD answers. —Steve Summit (talk) 16:27, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, you're right that was the intended word. Nil Einne (talk)

Please reply on my talk page[edit]

Please reply exactly on my talk page what you meant about this:

In some cases an ISP assign an IP in a stick fashions, and will keep it if you connect again so fast. In such cases, leaving the modem off for 24 or may be 48 hours may be enough to convince the ISP to give you a new IP.

Tell me the steps how you do it also on my talk page. Thank you! -- (talk) 02:30, 28 October 2015 (UTC)


since I'm using a computer, for this ip to change, I have to disconnect my computer and shut it off for 24 hours or 48 hours? Please reply here and leave a talkback on my talkpage. -- (talk) 21:42, 28 October 2015 (UTC)


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-- (talk) 20:23, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Please reply on my talk page. -- (talk) 00:54, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Twitter and other references/source[edit]

The Drake Bell Tweet you just reinstated lacked something very important: the photo supposedly verifying Bell's self-made claim about the song being in the top ten contained no dates, nothing verifiable to support what he was saying was true at the time. And, truth be told, anyone could have made that photo with a graphics program or photoshop. Do I think he did that? No. But that's not the point. Self-published, primary sources need to have solid evidence they are real and cannot make claims about oneself that statistics elsewhere can prove. Surely there is a real, secondary source out there that is verifiable? If not, the content needs to be removed from this BLP. -- WV 20:35, 15 January 2016 (UTC)


Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Reference errors on 12 February[edit]

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

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Brian Martin professor; BLP violations on-going.[edit]

Thanks for your contibutions on ANI. I have tried BLPN, ANI and Oversight on the BLP violations and Disruptive Editing but got nowhere. Have asked other admins for intervention. Guy is an admin and good at hand-waving and making many factually inaccurate statements. As far as I can see WP is very broken. The articles cited from "The Australian" are all misrepresented and multiple non-RS sources are used. But until a robust administrator is prepared to actually check the BLP violations will continue as Guy sees the article content as fine. (This is the second failure of WP to address BLP violations by "motivated" editors I've been a party to. The last involved editor was eventually banned as a DE sockpuppeteer.) Strangely, I have no intention of putting more time into a broken system. Stay safe. (talk) 01:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi. Things are worse here than I thought. The above post was deleted by an admin. Apparently on the grounds that I am in Australia and Brian Martin is in Australia too. I tried asking for a way forward on ANI. Outcome {{}}.
Is "I reverted their cries for help on other users' talk pages. Abiding by the BLP is not optional, of course. Drmies (talk) 03:54, 25 February 2016 (UTC)", acceptable administrator practise? It seems very strange. Not to mention the issue of someone attempting control and censorship of your talkpage. SmithBlue (talk) 06:05, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Notification about disabling the Wikipedia collections tool[edit]

Thank you for using the collections feature in Wikipedia beta! Due to technical and moderation issues, we will be turning off this experimental feature. Your collections will be available for viewing and export until March 1st. If you would like to save your collection as links on a special Wikipedia page, please fill out the following form. If you are interested in giving your feedback about Wikipedia Collections please do so here.


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Reference errors on 7 April[edit]

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

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ANI - Ram Man[edit]

For your information, the thread wasn't about me or my "mistake". It was about a self-sycophantic editor and their attempt to make themselves out to be something they were not. It's just that you and someone else tried to hijack it into a thread about me. That's why I told you to move on. In the grand scheme of things, my "mistake" was very minor. -- CassiantoTalk 06:42, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Tilde vandal[edit]

Hi there. Thanks for your efforts to rehabilitate the tilde vandal from Warsaw, but perhaps their latest talk page might be a more appropriate venue than mine. Tevildo (talk) 19:51, 30 April 2016 (UTC)


Regarding your comments on the ref desk re: sexism. My current approach is that if looks like sexism, smells like sexism, it probably is sexism, and If the day ever comes when sexist comments in online fora always get noted as sexist, I may change my approach. I too thought briefly about what the actual state of affairs may be, but then I quickly remembered that I don't really care what the stats say. This may seem odd, so let me explain:

I suspect you're familiar with this phenomenon: there's a certain breed of racist that just loves to talk about things like incarceration statistics in the USA, and use them as evidence that black people are more likely to be criminals. And if called on their racism, they respond "that's statistics, not racism: statistics can't be racist, and the facts don't lie." Now, I bet you know all the retorts to that, and I really didn't come hear to talk about racism, but only to point out that the actual share of men v.s. women that engage in binge watching has nothing to do with whether that IP was making sexist comments - his comments were sexist, plain and simple. I've been trying to refrain (a bit) from challenging bad behavior on the internet; it's tiring and depressing. But in this case I felt warranted, and I thought you might appreciate an explanation of why. Cheers, and keep up the good work, SemanticMantis (talk) 14:11, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I agree that the OP's comment is worded in very sexist manner. Personally I rarely challenge such comments since I've found it often doesn't work well even on the RD let alone internet in general, as it sounds like you've found also. But I'm not going to complain about someone like you who does so.

My main point which I perhaps didn't convey very well was that the OP's comment was offensive, and dumb to boot. But it wasn't as dumb as I originally thought it may be. When I first read it before your reply, I was wondering if the OP's comment was completely wrong i.e. males and females binge watch equally or males binge watch even more. However the first/only statisic I found (I didn't look that hard) suggested there was a small bias. So I decided to leave it be. When I saw your comment, I wanted to offer support but also felt I should point out the very limited/poor statistics I found did suggest a very small bias. However as I belatedly attempted to clarify, even if true this bias is too small to justify the OP's wording.

I'm familiar with the phenomenon you refer to. Actually that bigoted troll from Canada liked to do that in the past. Although nowadays they seem to be mostly doing anti semitic stuff (but I don't look except when I come across their stuff).

Nil Einne (talk) 15:38, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

New question button[edit]

Thanks for tracking down the bug that makes mobile questions go to the top. But what to do about it? I'm thinking that Wikipedia:Reference desk/header/howtoask needs to be changed - for example, to change the button from an "inputbox" (which, honestly, is a tag I've never seen before) to an ordinary HTML link with some fancy CSS styling to make it look roughly the same. I'm thinking something like Ready? Ask a new question that simply uses FULLPAGENAME. But is there a reason not to do this I should know about? Wnt (talk) 10:18, 5 May 2016 (UTC)


Thanks, Nil. My newest computer has a broken keyboard, and the older one (2009) has no good licensed image maker, even though I actually made a Gadsen Flag for pay for a Tea Party website quite a few years back. They didn't ask for a rainbow though.

The girls on the street drew one (a rainbow), and my dad hung his Old Glory though. It's nice things have changed so much since I came out 34 years ago. 'Preciate the help. μηδείς (talk) 00:19, 19 June 2016 (UTC)


I replied to your post on my talkpage. I'll quickley sum it up:

  1. . You can believe me if you so choose.
  2. I'm not going to create an account again until I feel that I've shown that I've improved, which will take some time
  3. if you choose to hold my past against me, that's not on me.

I didn't mention this, but if what I'm doing is so bad by coming back and admitting mistakes, then why not take it to an/i? Even though my "soc master' is dead since I cannot remember any of my passwords and I'm not creating another account yet. Come on, take me to an/i if I'm that bad still. Let them make a determination. I wouldn't though because you'd be wasting their time for nothing. so how about let's make peace and move on. thanks. (talk) 01:24, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

my request[edit]

I've made my case, and now I've deleted my talk page. Please do not contact me again and remove me from your list for now. And I meant it when I said I only want a Mancunian blocking me if it absolutely must be done, which it shouldn't. Last time I checked, Malaysia is a few thousand miles away from Manchester, though Malaysians I've met are cool people, love you guys, i had an amazing stay there.

Anyway please leave me alone for now, and let me figure thigns out on where I'm going to go. thanks.

Eric Ramus (talk) 02:06, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Erand Hoxta[edit]

Sure, will add it to my watchlist. Although according to this 2012 AfD the footballer doesn't merit an article either, unless something has changed since 2012? --McGeddon (talk) 15:21, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I initially wondered about notability (didn't know of the previous AFD) due to the limited info. However I saw they were in Albanian Superliga so decided maybe they met some subject specific guidelines. (I don't follow sports related articles much, just saw this at ANI.) Looking at the AFD, it seems there was dispute over whether the Albanian Superliga was fully professional but it sounds like that is settled Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues/Archive 12#Dubious Fully-Pro Leagues & Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues/Archive 6#Albanian Superliga so I guess it meets WP:NFOOTBALL. (The clubs before 2014 are also currently not in the Superliga but I guess one of them was at the time since Superliga was mentioned in the AFD.) I've got to wonder why it still doesn't meet GNG after all this time, but possibly there aren't enough people interested in Albanian football and able to read Albanian I guess. Nil Einne (talk) 17:32, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Regarding your post at WT:RD[edit]

You stated "Meanwhile, there's another newish RD regular who I assume I'm not the first person to notice appears to be a reincarnation of an indefed editor." You aren't. Check WP:SPI. --Jayron32 01:16, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Ah yes, sad to see even they could't stay on track. (Although I guess I'm not surprised, since I first noticed them when they complained about a grammar error on my part but it seemed to be a lone case so I let it be.) Nil Einne (talk) 02:49, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Hey, FYI. I found something interesting. Read this post here and this page here, the first sentence. --Jayron32 19:07, 4 November 2016 (UTC)


I never would have dreamt, as I lay badly wounded in Russia that I would ever dance again. Yes, life really is wonderful. --TranquilPalast (talk) 12:00, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svgHello, Nil Einne. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you![edit]

Refdesk barnstar candidate2.png The Reference Desk Barnstar
Thanks for answering my question on the Miscellaneous Reference Desk! --Aabicus (talk) 04:32, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Perfect Use[edit]

BB's comments demonstrate his never ending need to interject in matters he is completely unfamiliar with. Not only is he unhelpful with respect to the questions, he is disruptive, throwing the thread off tract from a solution, and onto utter non-sense diversions. These escapades should be boxed if not entirely removed. (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

I think the correct term is "hatted", not boxed. You can learn the appropriate code and do it yourself, you don't need to be an admin to hat things, do you? Can't find the page that contains the tags and how to use them, though? Eliyohub (talk) 19:53, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Sorry about refdesk indentation messing[edit]

Sorry, didn't realize the implications of indenting your answer to my question (which I much appreciate, you clearly did your research). It's simply that your answer was "running into mine", which made things look unclear, and my response was to indent your answer - sorry for causing grief. In future such situations, would it be acceptable as per wikipedia convention for me to insert a line break between the two responses instead, to make things clearer to read? Eliyohub (talk) 13:55, 28 December 2016 (UTC)


Are you always wrong? About EveryThing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fancy nancy schmanzy (talkcontribs) 07:39, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Ah, okay, if you say so, account I'm pretty sure I've never interacted with before in my life .... Nil Einne (talk) 11:36, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Regarding Norwegian grammarians at RD[edit]

Could be. Not seeing anything definitive in just the history, except Athena-like birth fully formed at the RDs as soon as the account is created. There's a few socks that fit that pattern. If you have any specific diffs that we can compare, either start a new SPI or drop me a note on my talk page and I will look into it in more detail. --Jayron32 21:09, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you for your final comments at this thread. I was out of town while it archived. Many thanks and Happy Spring Festival. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:38, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Glad it was useful! And Kong Hee Fatt Choy to you too. Nil Einne (talk) 08:31, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Way to go on the reference desk[edit]

I'm not seeking argument, I'm fed up with wikipedia's bullshit bias. I used to only use wikipedia for math and basic information, so never saw the huge bias it has. You banning my thread just proved me point, any onlooker will see that, thank you. Money is tight (talk) 09:36, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm seeing the possibility of a WP:NOTHERE block in the near future. Ian.thomson (talk) 09:52, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
So talking about things contradicting materialism is disruptive editing and cause for a ban. Is it because you can't swallow my replies and want to ban me for revenge? Seriously, I now understand when people complained about the community on wikipedia. Money is tight (talk) 10:35, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Talking about things supporting or contradicting materialism or anything else in places where it isn't appropriate is disruptive editing. The RD is a place to ask for requests for references not to spread your views in support or against materialism (or anything else). Some lenience is given to both question askers and respondents to mention their views in the context of asking or responding to questions, but there are limits. If your primary purpose of your responses is to spread your views, then yes it's unwelcome whether it's supporting or contradicting materialism or anything else. Especially when you are the question asker and seem to be just trying to spread your opinions rather than seeking references. Nil Einne (talk) 10:40, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
It is true we have a tremendous bias to facts and reliably sourced opinion here on wikipedia. Sorry if that is news to you. And yes, I have no problem if an onlooker sees we have a bias towards facts and reliably sourced opinion. And with the particular case of the RD, against arguments disguised as questions regardless of whether people think they should have Freedom of speech on a private website. Nil Einne (talk) 10:40, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm NOT disguising some dogmatic trolling attempt as a question. I called out Ian for attacking me on the bias of wikipedia. Now I admit, I'm getting pretty worked up here due to past edit wars, I add something and it gets reverted because the source "isn't good enough". Many other people have complained about the editing community on here too. I've never had much issue in the past with wikipedia because the only technical articles I read are related to math, and in math everyone can check the facts so you can't be biased. I'm not here to argue with you about this bias thing, I don't care about this, but I'm very offended when you suggested to ban on the ref desk question. Money is tight (talk) 10:48, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
The page near death experience is better now than before, it's a good example of what I meant by bias. When I first read it I had the strong impression that research into veridical perception (seeing and hearing things very clearly during cardiac arrest) has completely failed. But reading in a lot of other places has taught me the huge bias, at least in that article. But now it's better, they've shown a more positive side to this research. (I didn't edit it btw). Money is tight (talk) 10:53, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Weather prediction stuff[edit]

Hey, sorry if my remark about HuffPo struck a wrong note. It was meant playfully and not as a serious objection. Unfortunately things don't always translate well online, and I apologize unreservedly for any offense that I have caused. I feel especially bad about it because you're one of the good guys. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:36, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

BLP / ANI statement[edit]

This post [1] makes unsubstantiated false allegations about my editing. I've done none of the things you state as fact. Please retract and review my moves to mainspace [2] before making such allegations. If you have a concern with a specific page, let's talk about it. Legacypac (talk) 03:39, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Iridescent has already pointed out the BLPvios to you which as I said in an earlier post I have reviewed. While Iridescent wasn't quite correct in that the articles did have working sources to official sites, neither of them had any working inline references supporting any claim made in the article. If you haven't gotten that what you did is a serious BLP problem by now, I'm even more convinced you need to be sanctioned. Nil Einne (talk) 03:44, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
P.S. And to be clear, if you still think that BLP only concerns itself with negative content then this is a problem. It's true unsource negative content is a bigger concern than simple content, but that doesn't mean it's okay from a BLP standpoint to have unsourced content concerning living persons, BLP makes it clear is isn't especially when the material is contentious (which to be clear, is very different from negative). I'm not sure if any of the material in the examples highlighted was contentious, but it's clear from a BLP viewpoint that they shouldn't have been moved when there was absolutely no working inline refs, and the only working external links or third party source in both of them was an official page. Nil Einne (talk) 04:20, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
P.P.S. One thing I did do was point out in response to Irisdecent and Lugnuts what I noted in my comment namely that both articles did have links to official pages. It's possible this would have changed how others !voted, I'm not sure. You could have easily explained this in response yourself, unfortunately you seemed to just argue with Lugnuts and ask for a retraction rather than simply pointing out that they both had a single, working external link to an official page. If it turns out you are sanctioned but would not have been sanctioned if this was known (which we'll probably never know), that's unfortunate. In my case at least, I've already admitted I did not notice this at first, and it did affect how I felt about the situation but ultimately not enough to change my mind about the need for sanction. IMO this does illustrate why it's far more important to try an explain why you think a statement is wrong or misleading rather than simply say it is, hopefully you consider this and adjust how you approach things in the future. I'd particularly note that "As far as I know" isn't very confident when there were 2 specific examples highlighted. And for clarification, I'm not necessarily saying you were wrong to ask for a retraction in that case or to say the party was wrong, simply that it's more important to explain why you felt so so it's easier for the party you're talking to, and everyone else to get an idea what the dispute is about. Nil Einne (talk) 04:47, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

I was not watching your talkpage and did not see above post. Thank-you for the thoughtful response. Per your recent comment at ANi... The MfD in question was initiated by me so if he read it before closing he knew that. While checking all of my contributions and editing 42 pages I edited or created first in just one day, Godsy CSD'd the page I already MfD'd. After it was deleted he went back to my MfD and closed it. That volated WP:NACINV and WP:BADNAC as he was obviously expressing an opinion with the CSD and "involved". Now, I've CSD'd pages someone else MfD'd (outside of hounding, that's ok) but I'm wise enough to not close discussions I'm involved in for a number of good reasons. He is rules obsessed right until the rules are read against his behaviour. This is also not a new problem. He lost his RfAdminship 6 months back largely because of his harrassment of me, as pointed out by other editors. I'd quit editing largely because of his antics, and only came back when another editor emailed me shocked he had the guts to do an RfA after how he treated me.

The MfD close, though improper, is not a big deal to me except as it formed part of an entire day where he did almost nothing except hound me. I did not bring it to ANi. It does show the double standard though. Every move I make is alleged to be a violation of some policy I don't undrstand yet every move he makes is justified by selective reading of some policy. It is almost comical if it was not so disruptive. Legacypac (talk) 13:29, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Oh and on BLP - I get BLP policy. There was nothing remotely contentious and nothing that could not be easily verified on either page, and with at least one link they were BLPPROD proof. I tend to batch my tasks which means I'll sort crap from usable material in AfC, occasionally accepting a useful page. You can't edit a page during acceptance very easily. Than, when on the computer not the phone (too hard to edit), I'll go and improve the pages I accepted as needed. I've found there is an army of good editors who tag and improve refs and sort and categorize better than I do, while there are very few editors processing drafts like I do. Also, I've taken to doing my article editing in main space after the moves because my cleanup activity makes my contributions graph look very weird with lots of edits outside mainspace. I leave tons of notifications on talk/user/draft pages so a little balance is needed. Legacypac (talk) 13:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

A refreshing cup of tea for you![edit]

Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg Much appreciation for your recent contributions to the Ref Desks, especially in describing the practice of info searching and noting usage considerations incl. copyvio. These are not only WP issues! This manifestly boosts the signal:noise ratio and improves the quality of the RDs for all concerned. Keep up the good work! Deborahjay (talk) 10:24, 19 June 2017 (UTC)



As you participated in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive957#Proposal: One-way IBAN on Godsy towards Legacypac, you may be interested in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Proposing IBAN between Godsy and Legacypac. — Godsy (TALKCONT) 03:27, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

"IMO it's always risky to add content based solely on abstracts or snippets."[edit]

That should be chiseled into the walls around here.

A fellow snipophobe, Anmccaff (talk) 14:41, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Re: Science reference desk[edit]

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Hello, Nil Einne. You have new messages at Plasmic Physics's talk page.
Message added 08:18, 4 September 2017 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Just FYI[edit]

Please see User talk:GorillaWarfare#Concerns about altered images and other questionable image uploads. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 20:18, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

On this day, 12 years ago...[edit]

Balloons-aj.svg Hey, Nil Einne. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee!
Have a great day!
Lepricavark (talk) 23:08, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

My $.02[edit]

This edit seems unnecessarily bitey (and rather unlike your normal RD behaviour, if I may say so). Matt Deres (talk) 20:26, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


Don't undo my policy based closes again. [3] Legacypac (talk) 04:50, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

I will not undo policy based closed. I will undo silly closes like that which are not based on policy. If you continue such nonsense, don't be surprised if you are blocked. I suggest you check out the lengthy discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RfC: Should the Reference Desks be closed? to realise how lacking in consensus your actions are. Of course the fact that you are now at the 3RR limit, but no one else has even broken 1RR should also tell you that. It's silly anyway. If the RDs are closed then fine. If the RDs aren't closed then some reform may or may not happen, but whatever reform happens it makes no sense that the reform will be for RD to serve no purpose i.e. there's nothing welcome there that isn't better somewhere else, but that seems to be what you are trying to require. In other words, if you take part in the above discussion but find it isn't going you way, you can't then try to get your way by using the back door of making nothing actually welcome on the RD. Incidentally, I seemed to remember your name and I had an idea from what. A quick check at ANI confirmed by memory. AFAICT, you've already been topic banned once, at least in part (IMO) because you thought you were allowed to unilaterally impose you view of what policy and practice should be. While yes, as I think I myself said before, we were way too lenient on Godsy early on, this doesn't mean you weren't deserving of the topic ban. Please don't try the communities patience again by acting as if you are unilaterally allowed to impose your POV of what policies and guidelines mean, and how they should be enforced. Nil Einne (talk) 10:53, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewing[edit]

Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg
Hello, Nil Einne.

I noticed you've done some constructive editing recently.
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Happy Thanksgiving[edit]

"Thanksgiving Greetings. Wishing You Joy.".jpg Happy Thanksgiving
A little early, but still...

Wishing you a day of celebration, relaxation, and happiness.

If you don't celebrate, pass this on to someone who does! -- WV 01:27, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

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Hi, i consider useful and helpful adding democratic to distinguish the coup attempt. It is a situation where one party claims the other illegitimate, therefore adding democratic elections adds to clarity for the reader. I see several people changing this, so i could be wrong. Also its not a very big change adding the singe "democratic" word. thank you ItsNotmyname (talk) 14:41, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

It's not normally necessary to qualify that elections are democratic in simple encyclopaedic mentions. If there were concerns over the legitimacy of the elections, that should generally be discussed where appropriate, although bearing in mind this is an article on the person, this would normally be kept to a minimum anyway. While I was being a bit facetious, I was also being serious. For many of us, when people insist on tagging something as democratic we're reminded of communist countries or others who are anything but democratic who insist on tagging everything as democratic. It may be approriate when giving a speech or writing an essay to mention how "after the democratic elections, protestors whatever" but that's a bit of a different case. And even then, it will generally be much more meaningful if further information is provided instead of simply a label. For example "independent elections observers from the EU/whatever call them free and fair". Note however that is not something normally appropriate in wikipedia. Such information is often extraneous, and should be covered in the article on the elections. Nil Einne (talk) 14:55, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Ok I understand that. In the same line of arguments from above, in an attempt to clarify and distinguish democratic processes from the coup, there was the statement of EU and NATO officials after the event, with support for i quote: democratic processes. The event was an attack to the democracy, that is why I consider it important. But I understand, and given its a small difference, that as you say could make more confusion (communism) and it is not very related to the person.

What do you think of the political views of the protesters on the page? Should their views be on the personal page? I'm referring to "According to the protesters the new parliament majority "did not follow the Rules of Procedure of the Parliament" and was in essence a coup against the Macedonian state.[5]" Also it is referenced by what it seems to be a blog. ItsNotmyname (talk) 15:24, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Question - Jefferson Davis Park, Washington[edit]

You made a redirect for Jefferson Davis Park to Jefferson Davis Park, Washington which is great, but I was wondering if it would be a bit confusing as the camp site where Jefferson Davis was captured is also often referred to as Jefferson Davis Park by locals in Georgia[Jefferson Davis Memorial Historic Site]. Are you sure this will not be confusing? Thanks C. W. Gilmore (talk) 09:59, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

See Talk:Jefferson Davis Park#Redirect query Nil Einne (talk) 13:33, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand[edit]

Why you did this. --NeilN talk to me 05:58, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry I got an EC while modifying my comment and didn't want to spend a long time fixing it. I could have used ins/del and signed, but I personally find it more confusing when the comment has been modified in this way after someone replied to it. And it looked a bit too complicated to try and recover the important parts and make them in a separate reply. I hope you don't mind. Nil Einne (talk) 04:42, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
I understand. No problem. --NeilN talk to me 04:44, 21 January 2018 (UTC)


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Cal Poly talk page[edit]

Hi Nil Einne, I left a reply to your comment in the Cal Poly talk page. Thank you for your take on this dispute. --Chlorineer (talk) 16:02, 13 February 2018 (UTC)


Hi, I think if we name that section "surname or patronymic" that's a good solution. What do you reckon? Dr. Vogel (talk) 23:44, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

I have no objection to that. Although I'd note their is a distinction in usage between surnames and patronyms. A person is generally referred to by their surname in formal usage e.g. Jörg Vogel would generally be referred to as Dr Vogel or Vogel. This is often not the case for a patronym where the person is often referred to by their given name, this is generally the case in both Malaysian English and Malay. E.g. Mahathir Mohamad or Mahathir not Dr Mohamad or Mohamad. (This usage isn't always followed outside Malaysia although it's normally encouraged for our articles per the relevant MOS.) So personally I would suggest patronyms should be distinguished i.e. put in a separate list from surnames but as said, I won't object to their inclusion in a list for both patronyms and surnames. I had a look and it seems this is one area our articles don't handle well. Of the 5 or so examples, I looked at, only Muhammad (name)#Surname does anything. All the others put patronyms in with surnames so it does seem what you are doing is quite common. Unfortunately this is one area still not well written in our guidelines. Although we do have the Template:Malay names, it seems even one of the MOS which deals with this Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Malaysia-related articles is dormant. (Although Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Singapore-related articles is still active.) I apologise if my actions came across as harsh, you're clearly doing a good job, it's just that confusing Malay patronyms with surnames is one of my pet peeves. (Although still not enough that I'm willing to try and deal with the mess that currently exists in our various articles, so feel free to handle Azman however you feel best.) Nil Einne (talk) 00:07, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
Hi, thank you very much for taking the time to explain all this, I had no idea.
I didn't think you were being harsh as I always assume good faith, I was just a bit confused at first, but now that you've explained all this it makes perfect sense.
I absolutely agree we should have some kind of way to address this problem and then be as consistent as we possibly can. Dr. Vogel (talk) 00:18, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
Also I moved Khairul Azman Mohamed as I'm fairly sure given name is Khairul Azman. Mohamed is his patronym. I should mention the other examples I looked at were Ismail (name), Razak, Ibrahim (name), Ja'far, all of them as mentioned just put the person under surname. All of them include people from Malaysia, and I think in most cases if you follow through to the article, many of them do have the template Template:Malay name which says it's not a family name so things are a bit of a mess. I think I'll follow your lead and add patronym to the subject although as said, I do feel long term it would make sense to separate patronyms from surnames. However with no direct support from this from any MOS or discussion, a mass change may cause controversy. I just looked at Abd al-Rahman and it's a little more complicated as a compound name but because of the number it also lists by country so doesn't distinguish between given name and surname. Since very few places still use patronyms like this, as even many from Arab countries have generally started to use something like a surname, and many others which still used patronyms adopted surnames/family names sometime in the early 20th century or earlier, it's not something which gets a lot of attention. Nil Einne (talk) 00:55, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
Okay I've adjusted the subheadings in those examples above to Surname or patronymic. I'm fairly sure there are a bunch of others, but I'm lazy to dig them up at the moment. Nil Einne (talk) 01:01, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


That's a load of nonsense. Quit edit warring. Geogene (talk) 06:33, 8 April 2018 (UTC)


Naw, I'm not new to the internet or Wikipedia. I'm sorry for indenting for you. I had gotten the impression we were ignoring Count Iblis' off-target post and shunting it to the bottom, so when your reply appeared below it I misunderstood. Anyway, I see from people's posts to your talk page that you are an irascible curmudgeon like me. Keep up the good fight. Abductive (reasoning) 00:03, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

talk page reversions[edit]

I was going to do that not sure whether or not to do that per the ani discussions and the talk over at meta. Thanks Edaham (talk) 11:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Sorry for putting you to that trouble, I should have looked more closely at IPs. Thanks again. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 07:47, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

In response to message left for User:YborCityJohn[edit]

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Picking on Baseball Bugs[edit]

He is one of the smartest people that I can remember. Please be nice to him. Limited Brain Cells (talk) 18:24, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Maybe you've got a short memory. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:53, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

IP User[edit]

Obviously neither you nor he/she are happy about your exchanges. I extend a welcome to the dialog on my Talk page. DroneB (talk) 14:47, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Just wondering...[edit]

That user VXFC has been banned for almost 7 1/2 years now. Do you happen to know what got him banned in the first place? Was it incorrect information, or was it belligerence? (Or maybe both?) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:24, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

I don't really know, since I think Vote X only started to hang out in the RD a while after they were blocked. I may have looked into it briefly at one stage but I don't remember that well what I found. I do know that they seem to have fairly unorthodox views on various issues relating calendars and time including intercalation, leap seconds and time zones. And they seem to continue to push their issues even when there is no support, sometimes with misrepresenting what other people or maybe sources have say. So I'm not that surprised that they somehow got themselves blocked. The ban discussion is here [4] and LTA is here Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Vote (X) for Change although they mostly only tell you what they've been doing after socks. Then again, the block log [5] suggests that maybe socking was what got them blocked initially, so perhaps it was simply using IPs and/or accounts to try and force their way when people began to ignore them or to bolster their level of support. Nil Einne (talk)
Holy obsessions, Batman! Still doing the exact same stuff that got him banned. A hopeless case, it would seem. Thanks for the info. P.S. His "tells" are obvious. Maybe he doesn't know that, or maybe he doesn't care. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:52, 7 October 2018 (UTC)


You probably should have taken it to my talk page, but anyway... The original closer's conduct was not a topic of discussion, and the only reason Swarm mentioned it was because David had; had David not there would have been no need to. And David Just. Got. Warned. about canvassing, when the original report had included discussion of the slightly-greyer area of cherry-picking a large number of editors on one's own side when required to notify those on the other side (see the long, off-topic discussion here in which a bunch of editors whose stance towards me is neutral-to-negative and whose stance towards David is neutral-to-positive were pinged with the extremely dubious rationale that they were loosely involved in a discussion that was only kinda-sorta peripherally related to the topic of discussion -- the owner of the talk page in question seemed confused as fuck as a result).

If the notification requirement covered editors whom the OP would want to notify then it would need to be a requirement.

Hijiri 88 (やや) 11:28, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

I find it very strange that Hijiri88 is so eager to get me indeffed for failing to notify [6], yet here he has failed to notify me or Beeblebrox when he was gossiping behind our backs. The same goes for these two comments ([7][8]) at the RfC in question, where he also failed to notify me that he was accusing me of incivility. The diffs he provided at the RfC had absolutely nothing to do with the RfC. The second diff was from 1.5 years ago. But I'm apparently the problem. I consider it to be WP:HOUNDING, and I again politely request Hijiri to stop. --David Tornheim (talk) 12:32, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm not eager to get you indeffed for failing to notify; I think your kind of IDHT normal results in an indef. And there's a reason I said "and elsewhere". This is the kind of IDHT I'm talking about. Hijiri 88 (やや) 20:43, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Open access DOIs[edit]

On your question about [9]: citations sometimes provide multiple URLs, for instance both PMC and arXiv. Per Help:Citation_Style_1#Registration_or_subscription_required, "Links inserted with |url= are expected to be free to read by default" and "Links inserted by identifiers such as |doi= are not expected to offer a free full text by default. If they do, editors can use |doi-access=free".

That citation did not specify the DOI access level, so adding an URL is an improvement in that it signals to the users that the publication is in fact open access. Moreover, the Zenodo record is useful because it states the copyright status more precisely.

Adding an URL and a doi-access parameter do not exclude each other, but I agree it would be nice if OAbot (or another bot) also maintained citations (or at least the citations it edits) to improve such information in them. This could be proposed at Help talk:Citation Style 1, I think. Nemo 17:15, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: You seem to have missed the key point. if the publication was open access on the DOI why didn't you simply add "|doi-access=free" when you found it it was open access when you manually checked? Why did you instead add a questionable source? (Note that the problem is not simply over the questionable copyright status of Zenodo content, but also whether it's possible content there has been modified.) Even if you allege both a questionable source URL, and the original source free DOI were better, you still failed to add doi-access free.

I'm presuming from your response that it's not that the DOI wasn't open access in Italy or wherever you were checking from, so you couldn't tell from your manual check. (If you can't check because you're accessing from a institutional internet connection so it's not clear whether you have something due to your institutional access or because it's free, I'm not certain what you can do. But you really should have came up with a solution, perhaps with the help of the community, before going on a mass spree. I don't see the point of mass wasting time manually checking stuff when you're ability to check is so seriously flawed. I mean checking each one of those must take an average of at least 5 minutes or probably more considering the need to check the copyright status, if the document was modified, in some cases who uploaded it, etc. If there were 100 added this means you spent 500 minutes!)

I don't really understand your final comment. As I understand it, per the FAQ OAbot does attempt to mark DOIs that are free when it recognises them, and also does not add URL parameters when they are marked as free (already or by the bot when it recognises the DOI is free). As I said in my ANI comment, I assume the reason it didn't do so here is because it wasn't able to recognise the DOI was free because whoever made the DOI didn't comply with common guidelines like those by Google.

This is unfortunate, but it should not have mattered since you manually checked as I think you have to do since the tool is naturally imperfect otherwise we would just automatically run it on every page. So you were able to recognise far better than a bot could, that the DOI was free and could have simply marked it yourself. As I said, you could have done so whether or not you also decided to override the bot and add a URL parameter when the DOI was free; as is after all one of the points of a manual check, to recognise stuff the bot is unable to. By your own admission, this would be an advantage since people might not otherwise recognise it was free and they therefore may have accessed it from a questionable source unnecessarily.

Nil Einne (talk) 05:30, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

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