User talk:Nil Einne
- 1 can you please actually upload the tor image from the ref desk
- 2 why the hell are you wasting my time with a witch hunt.
- 3 Some baklava for you!
- 4 "I don't really understand what you're suggesting"
- 5 Onerous
- 6 WoolSalesman
- 7 Magnum Crimen
- 8 Edit warring at ANI
- 9 Archive
- 10 Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion
- 11 ITN
- 12 Nil
- 13 Deletion
- 14 Iblis
- 15 Moving Burma to Myanmar - new 2015 poll
- 16 Thanks for the support
can you please actually upload the tor image from the ref desk
I know you linked to two services, but they don't work. I don't use tor. can't you just upload the images - if you can see them - to imgur? this takes like 18 seconds from start to pasting the image here. thanks. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 07:21, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- I didn't upload the images partially because of copyright reasons even if it will probably fall under fair use (outside wikipedia I mean) but also because it seemed a good case of people helping themselves. But in any case, since the question is likely to remain closed, I don't see much point. As I indicated earlier, it may be more helpful if you work out why the images aren't working for you. They are working for at least one other participant, Tevildo. I've tested them on two different connections and they work. You may need to click on "I agree with terms, let me access the content" the first time you try to access the Tor proxy (or I guess every time if you don't save cookies). And since it's a proxy it does seem a little slow at times, but they seem to always work.
- If your ISP has major problems, bear in mind I'm not sure I would use Imgur even if I were to upload, and I'm not sure it's resonable to expect people to use a specific image hosting service just because a person has such major problems unless they're specifically asking for your help. In that case, may be it's worth looking in to Tor, or some similar service to get around your ISP problems?
- I guess it's possible your ISP is blocking just Tor proxies out of fear they will be used to access child pornography or something. If you're sure you don't have general internet connection problems but none of the Tor proxies seem to work at all, I can probably upload the image to some site for your personal use only. Here's another https://6lw4pg2wsy475d7q.tor2web.blutmagie.de/processed/fc7f14caa618b178c8a95028337076528a651b88b5dac4b98de125d6dd82d089 . One final one, a different service which has ads and has a different message ("I know what I'm doing") you need approve the first time https://6lw4pg2wsy475d7q. onion.cab/processed/fc7f14caa618b178c8a95028337076528a651b88b5dac4b98de125d6dd82d089 . Also because of the wikipedia blacklist on onion sites affects this proxy, I had to seperate the . and onion. If you can work out how to use Imgur, I'm sure you can work out how to fix the link.
- Nil Einne (talk) 13:39, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, Nil. The final link (the one with 'i know what I'm doing') worked for me. The other ones simply don't - regardless of how many PC's you tried them on, etc :). I have no idea why you wrote three paragraphs above, but thanks for the last link, which is all I needed to see the image. Thanks. By the way, though it doesn't have any psychological affect on me, I do find the image rather disconcerting. I can certainly see how someone might be a bit freaked out by it, especially if they're in some kind of weird state of mind (it's night-time, they live alone, they're depressed, whatever.) I have no such thing and was in a cheerful mood but still found that image a bit off-putting. So while I doubt it has any effect on the brain, cognition, etc, I can certainly see it as an affective [sic, though chrome underlines this word] work of art. (to put it one way.) 126.96.36.199 (talk) 16:52, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
why the hell are you wasting my time with a witch hunt.
I like your posts, we've interacted before. now look, here I have to read like 800 words from you:
- >Sluzzelin reverted your closure of my comment and have done the same. The OP can be as polite as they want in their question, the fact of the matter is their username translates to "French people are racist" not "Are French people racist" (which would be "Adalah orang Perancis perkauman?" or similar). Note I didn't comment on the OP's username or in any other way on the RD other than to provide a what I feel is a resonably accurate translation. Yes I did use the word "roughly", that's mostly because I'm concious of the fact words or phrases don't always have perfect translations, although in reality in this case I don't think it's particularly far off the mark. While I admit, my Malay is not as good as it once was (although I did check just to make sure I wasn't mistaken about the word perkauman) I'm perfectly willing to AGF when called for, but I do not see any other logical translation of this name and so there's nothing to AGF about. If you believe there's a far more innocous translation of their username, feel free to present it and I will apologise to the OP and to you. I did suggest on the OP's talk page they need to change their username ASAP or face a block, but that doesn't relate to the RD. The reality is, if the had called themselves "French people are racist", they likely would already be blocked and I did consider a straight UAA report which I do believe as justifiable in a case like this. I will AGF this wasn't intentional and that the OP wasn't aware that their username was a violation. As far as I'm concerned, people are free to respond to the OP if they wish, presuming the OP changes their username it can even stay a two way conversation. OTOH, if an editor is going to call themselves "French people are racist" they should expect people may not wish to respond or will respond differently. (At the very least, if an editor doesn't understand why such a username is offensive, that suggests answers may need to be tailored appropriately. If the editor realises it is offensive, but thinks it's an example of freedom of speech, they don't really understand the concept that well, and how it applies to somewhere like wikipedia.) Note in particular there's a big difference between saying, as 91 said, that in my experience "French people are extremely racist", which can be taken as expressing a general sentiment on society (whether accurate or excessively stereotypical or not) and also is in response to a specific question in an appropriate place, and going around with a username that says "French people are racist" which could be interpreted to mean all French people are racist (a highly bigoted statement), and also as a username so something which will be encountered wherever you edit. Nil Einne (talk) 01:37, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
(please note that I'm also 91!!!) Okay, so I've read the above. It took me over a minute. It must have taken at least 10 minutes to write. What a complete waste of time. You're suggesting BLOCKING the OP for having a certain name? While you let Baseball Bugs blatantly troll (like, "Fuck you", "Shut your trap" etc). Slow down, get off of your witch hunt. You need to assume good faith, completely NOT go on a witchhunt when nobody other than you cares about the OP's name. Your response is completely inappropriate. You're wasting a TON of our time. And the fact that you posted it makes the reference desk a lot worse. Why would you even go on a witch hunt against an OP? Their question stands just fine. You do not need to go around blocking people.
Seriously You hae waaaaaaaaaaay better things to do than this. You're wasting minutes of our time. Why would you do this? Also, can you please do something about baseball bugs just blatantly trolling (just look at his history, no context is needed - every so many edits, he'll just put in some random crap.) 188.8.131.52 (talk) 01:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Also. . . read OP's very carefully-worded, very-earnest and open-ended (not leading) question "1. How racist is French society?" which could have been answered by anyone with any reference. I gave one (and my experience), though I didn't in detail compare it with other cultures. Since I'm a white, male, European, obviously for me to notice and be bothered by shocking levels of racism by the French, the bar is very high. I gave a reference that indicates some of this. Others could have responded as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with such a sociological question. It's totally obvious that OP is quite ignorant about our society, since he asks questions (2 and 3) that are really obvious. "2. Does freedom of speech include ... blasphemy" is totally obvious, in our society obviously it's absolutely no problem for anyone to say "there is no God" under any circumstances. it's just a non-issue. but in Islamist countries this can get you punished by the state itself. (Something all the other readers, including you, might not have realized.) This is why the OP asked. His third question about violent retaliation ("3. Does freedom of speech mean that victims of [...] blasphemy speech cannot retaliate [violently]?") is also obvious: yes, obviously, you cannot retaliate violently and against the laws of society even if someone claims your God does not exist. This is also completely obvious to us. (But it's not obvious to him, since he's young, and since his perspective as outlined earlier reads "Here we believe that such extreme racism, if not stopped by the goverment, will lead to violence, which is what happened in France".) For him violence is natural, he makes this quite clear. I find his questions very easy to parse and to answer, and feel your witch hunt given the HUGE amount of attention put into sharing his perspective and asking for an answer very carefully, is absolutely distracting and unwarranted. it has no place on wikipedia. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:04, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- I think you're quite mistaken if you think no one is going to care that the OP has a username "French people are racist".
- Also, I can't block anyone as I'm not an admin. But I'm confident that if the OP becomes active again and doesn't ask for a rename, a report to WP:UAA will result in a block. As I said already, in reality the only reason the OP survived this long is precisely because most people didn't understand their username. An English username which says the same thing would likely have been quickly blocked the moment anyone noticed it. I know this because I've been around in enough places to know such usernames are routinely blocked.
- Oh, and I don't see how providing a translation of the username the the OP specifically chose is "completely inappropriate". What is inappropriate is trying to hide this information which is likely to be of interest to participants for numerous reasons like I mentioned. In fact, you seem to be contradicting yourself if you're suggesting that no one will care, than you also say that that my response was inappropriate. If no one cares, than my response is irrelevant and doesn't need to be closed so urgently that you tried it 2 (or 3?) times.
- As for BB, well I find them annoying at times, but blocking them is going to be far, far, far, far more difficult than getting someone with a username "French people are racist" blocked, I assure you. Unfortunately, as I've said to TRM and others before, the more we waste time on stuff which should be simple like providing a translation of the OPs offensive username, the less likely there's any hope to deal with such issues.
- And yes, I do find this waste of time frustrating. I probably didn't need to write such a long response here or before, but I find it incredibly annoying, not to mention offensive when I'm accused of not AGF for simply reporting what an offensive non English username actually means (and giving the account with the violating username the chance to rename before they are blocked). While I did right most of my first response before I even noticed your second hatting, the fact you did so would seem to be good evidence of need to defend myself.
- While BB may disagree, you are of course entitled to try and get our Wikipedia:Username policy changed. I think the chance you'll ever find any agreement to allow a username like "French people are racist" stand slim though. Remember, while there's a good chance the OP here may do little more on wikipedia, we're talking general principles here. Do you really think people are going to accept a large number of edit log enteries and signatures like "French people are racist", "Muslims are sexists" etc? (Will you at least accept a username like "Muslims are terrorists" & "Liberals are baby killers" aren't going to be acceptable?)
- Note as I already said, I was solely responding to the OPs username and not the question. The OP can be as careful as they want in the question, ultimately they choose to call themselves "French people are racist". Let's remember all I actually did until you called upon me to respond further (and this was only to you), was inform other people of what the username actually said, and also warned the OP that if they didn't change their username ASAP, they will almost definitely be blocked until they changed their bigoted and therefore offensive and disruptive username. I specifically didn't comment on why the OP may have chosen such username.
- You seem to be ignoring the actual issue of discussion which is the OPs username, and are insteading concentrating on the OP question, despite the fact I've said already, and I think my initial response was clear enough that it's not the issue. Remember the username was ultimately the OPs choice, not me or anyone else. If they didn't want to sent a message with the username, then they shouldn't have chosen it.
- As I mentioned, even if they really didn't understand why their username would be offensive, this in itself is likely to provide additional information beyond that coming from the question. If they did understand but chose it anyway, that's another point of information. Intentionally or not, they may have partially masked it, by choosing a language they understood, but most people didn't. Either way they should still have been aware that someone could have come along at any time who understood the username. (If they really didn't think there was any possibility someone would understand it, that in itself says something as well.)
- How people chose to deal with being made aware of the OPs username is up to them. Some may try to understand where the OP is coming from with such a username. Others may simply choose to ignore someone who chose such a username whatever the reason behind that. Yet others, like yourself, may feel it makes no different to them. That's fine but it's not up to you to decide that people shouldn't be aware that the OP has chosen an offensive username.
- P.S. In any case, it looks like there's no need to speculate, BB has reported the OP to UAA. Even tho I doubt that OP is going to become active again, and I was thinking it better to hold off for a variety of reasons including giving the OP the chance to rename without a block, it's likely the OP will simply be blocked. Of course as with any simple username violation, the OP would be free to ask for a rename and be unblocked. Unless of course the OP has managed to convince people they are simply trolling. If that happens, you can't blame me for not AGF when it's others who are the ones harsher than me and put the OP in to the trolling rather than the unblock with username change cat.
- P.P.S. The funny thing is you keep suggesting I'm not AGF when in reality as I hinted above, it's likely that others are going to be far less generous than me. E.g. they may assume it's no coincidence the OP was careful in their question to come across as trying to understamd, even though their username suggests they've already made up their mind but done so in a language not likely to be understood for a while. I've chosen not to go that far, and instead accept that there may be a number of reasons why the OP chose such a username. And as I said before, while my Malay may not be excellent, I'm confident that my grammar here is correct. And further, I'm confident in saying it would take someone with a very poor understanding of Malay grammar to not appreciate the difference between "Orang Perancis Adalah Perkauman" and "Adalah Orang Perancis Perkauman?", something that's not particularly likely for someone who can actually work out how to compose the sentence at all. In other words, whatever the reason, the OP said what they meant to say with their username.
- Nil Einne (talk) 02:54, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Actually I had a nagging feeling I was slightly wrong, and thinking and a bit of reading confirms it should probably be "Adakah Orang Perancis Perkauman?" not "Adalah Orang Perancis Perkauman?" (although the later isn't likely to be intepreted in any other way). Nil Einne (talk) 03:01, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Just answering one part
- >I think you're quite mistaken if you think no one is going to care that the OP has a username "French people are racist".
Yes, of course. Once you succeed in a pointless disruptive witch hunt and find something to waste people's time with they will care. (This required a translation.) If you enjoy insight and understanding, then you are insane, because you are creating an environment where you cannot get it. Look at all the rest of this pointless crap you've written above after this line. I'm not even going to read it. waste of my time and yours. Do you know how much more interesting stuff you could have discussed if you weren't disrupting?
Like, seirously "Do you think nobody is going to care what OP's name translates to if we successfully dig it up"? What's wrong with you. That is insane. It means you're a horrific person. The kind of person I would go out of my way to ever interact with. If that's what you want, that is fine. if you want insight, references, understanding, interesting knowledge, then don't work toward the opposite. I hope you will reflect and help build civility rather than antagonism. but I suspect you just enjoy wasting your time. I haven't read a word of the rest of your spiel above. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
- Dig what up? As my user page says, I understand Malay to a moderate degree having had nearly the entirety of my primary and secondary education in Malay. I didn't dig anything up. I recognised what the name meant the moment I read it. Upon seeing this, I had a quick check to make sure I wasn't mistaken (as it was a serious accusation), then mentioned this on the RD and also suggested the OP change their name ASAP. I did expect if they didn't do something, it's likely they would be blocked, but I personally probably wouldn't have taken it further or commented any more on the issue, particularly if they didn't show up on the RD again under that username.
- The simple fact is, offensive usernames in other languages are regularly blocked, not because anyone digs anything up, but because wikipedia is a community of people who speak many different languages. And therefore if someone can come up with an offensive username in some language, particularly if it's one they actually understand, there's a good chance someone else will similarly understand it, without needing to dig anything up. (Were it not for me, it's possible Crisco 1492 would have noticed that username, although I'm not sure since "perkauman" isn't the common term for racism in Indonesian AFAIK, Rasisme is.)
- Oh, and one point you seem to be missing is that being part of a community means accepting the standards of the community. And in the case of wikipedia, that includes accepting that certain highly offensive usernames are unwelcome. Building civility includes rejecting such antagonist (intentionally or not) actions by others such as having such an absurdly offensive username, and asking them to change or leave. As I said to the OP, and to you above, I personally never suggested the OP wasn't welcome, simply that they had to change their username if they wanted to stick around, as it was highly offensive (and for related reasons I also pointed out this username on the RD).
- And let's not forget the basic point here. That username was offensive even if many people don't understand it on en.wikipedia. Personally I don't really care that much, not because I don't find the name offensive, but more because just too stupid to worry about. But I can perfectly understand how some people won't feel the same, particularly French people or those with some sort of connection to them. If the OP is going to stick around with that username, there's no way you can ensure no such person sees the username. There are surely some French people who speak Malay, as well as people who speak Malay who have some sort of connection to French people, as well as simply people who don't see why they should tolerate such offensive nonsense (and that's entirely their right) who speak Malay. People should have to put up with offensive i.e. uncivil (intetionally or not) usernames just because you have this wacky idea AGF or civility means we aren't allow to point out people have such a username, as well as ask them to change it.
- BTW, fact of the matter is, if BB hadn't noticed this and reported it to UAA, there's slight chance this would have flown under the radar any way. Even though BB's actions prevented that, your actions basically ensured even without BB this was unlikely to happen as you succeeded in drawing far, far greater attention to the issue than my simple comment, or BB's pointless reply ever would have by themselves. I'm perfectly fine with AGF that you genuinely thought you could help in some way, but it doesn't take much experience with the RD, or with the internet or even life in general to figure out what was likely to result.
- Nil Einne (talk) 04:52, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Some baklava for you!
|For helping avert a potential tear-filled disaster! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 19:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)|
"I don't really understand what you're suggesting"
you wrote (this is now quite high scrolled up so I'm replying to you directly):
- I don't really understand what you're suggesting. Once the panel has been scratched, it's no longer a secret. So you can't transfer it or anything to a third party. You could require a new note for every transfer, but as I already mention that would be expensive, time consuming and fairly pointless considering the plenty of alternatives which would work better since you are after all relying on a centralised system, or at least some networked system. Nil Einne (talk) 11:45, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
- I mean you scratch it some place to both verify and transfer to a secure version, which still doesn't need much physical security. So here's how it would work. The ticket serial number (let's say EA9824397324) is like a currency serial number, public. The secret might not be a secret, you don't know where it's been, someone could have already copied and used it, by peeking through the scratch-off before you ever got it.
- You connect via SSL to the central authority (or blockchain) and enter the serial number (printed visible) - and to your relief you see "Unused. use now?" with a button Submit that lets you transfer it to another serial number. You would like to make it go from being an insecure one, you don't know where it's been or who has it, it can disappear at any time, to a secure one. Now you have a roll of tickets that you KNOW haven't been scanned, you got them from the government, they're somewhat tamper-evident and have been in your possession, aren't worth scamming you personally over by surreptitiously scanning them or replacing them with compromised versions or whatever. So you scratch off the one it just said is so far unused, and under 'secret' you see '40954384845794987234' or whatever. So while the 'secret' (in the crypto sense) might be known by someone who had compromised it, if you type in a new serial number that you know has never been peaked through (and you don't know what's under the scratch-off either), then you don't know what will happen when you click submit after also typing hte secret 40954384845794987234 . Maybe a thief clicked submit first (after copying the 'secret' despite selling it to you as though retained as a secret), and you will get the message, "Sorry, this has already been transferred 0.7 seconds ago, to serial _________. This ticket is void.", Fuck. Maybe it's a totally fabricated ticket and it says "That is not the 'secret' for this serial number." That's the risk when the 'secret' could be compromised. But if you see "Success! Now transferred to serial _______ and the original _____ is now void" you're free to tear up the old ticket, and anyway nobody would accept it as anyone who enters just the serial (e.g. if you repaint over the 'secret' part or reprint that serial number) can see that it's without value.
- So, here we have a way of taking an untrusted non-secret and moving it to an actual secret. The only requirements are an SSL connection, centralized authority, and very little by way of physical security. Cryptographically (the sense in which I mean) does this actually work? It creates a bearer instrument with much lower security requirements than cash has, since it's a measure of trust between phsyical security (like dollar bills, massive numbers of features) and no piece of paper at all. It can cost $0.02 to manufacture. And yes you may have to use one for every transaction, tough luck. In fact if people rely on it and trust the person who's been handling it, they might not need to a new transfer all the time though. Thoughts? 18.104.22.168 (talk) 11:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Nil Einne! I really appreciated your contributions to WP:RDS#causes of condom failure (particular given the poor quality responses it initial received), but I wondered if in your latest edit your meant to write "onerous" instead of "odorous". -- ToE 18:15, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
- Well, it finally archived. I'm amazed that no one in the peanut gallery took a snipe at it. -- ToE 12:29, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comment, you're right and I've belatedly corrected it. Sorry for not responding earlier, I have a tendency to ignore the "orange box of doom" unless it looks absolutely essential, precisely because of the possibility of the "of doom" part applying (even if it's no longer such a clear orange box). In this case I also got a message from the OP which I was thinking of responding to. Nil Einne (talk) 12:36, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes 6Trillion was blocked for a username violation, but they were also clearly NOTHERE - I felt WoolSalesman was the same, given both their name and their edits. But I'm happy to unblock and AGF/ROPE. GiantSnowman 13:43, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
Before posting any warning on anyone's page, please, be advised to learn the problem nature you are trying to address. There were no copyright violation in the article. First, the magnumcrimen.org text, dated 2015, is a copy of the Wikipedia Magnum Crimen written in 2010. Since the time is not running backward and the Magnum Crimen is copyrighted by Wikipedia, there was no copyright violation on the Wikipedia side. Second, the two sentences taken earlier from the Oscar Neumann book review were correctly quoted and attributed to the author and put in the article. [[User: Timbouctou|Timbouctou] claimed several times that the whole Neumann's book review was verbatim copied into Magnum Crimen which falsehood is online provable and verifiable. The same explanation, more detailed and repeated, can be found on the Magnum Crimen talk page.--Michelle Ridomi (talk) 12:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Edit warring at ANI
Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
Ok I have to warn you that edit warring by deleting my comments at ANI is pretty dumb.
- Actually whats dumb is the way you've dealt with this. I could easily revert you again and report you to WP:AN/EW since you're a self confessed block evader so 3RR doesn't apply to me. (And anyway, since someone else reverted you, you broke 3RR anyway so I could report you without further action.) I won't bother since there's no point until someone actually deals with you. You've frankly been given a lot of latitude on the thread, but instead of taking the smart course and behaving resonably, you've instead chosen to do dumb shit which almost guarantees you're going to be ignored, regardless of whether anything you're saying has merit. Nil Einne (talk) 13:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- BTW, it sounds like you also need to learn to count. I only did 3 reverts, not 4. Nil Einne (talk) 13:58, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oh and although your warning had no influence, I didn't actually do anything to your comments since you warned me. I only replied to some of your slightly more resonable comments. Again, you need to pay more attention before throwing around accusations. Although I'm starting to think others are right and you're a troll. Even if you're not, it seems like I'm not going to help you appreciate the folly of you ways if you actually want to have an influence on wikipedia content. Either way, not much point be replying to you further. Nil Einne (talk) 14:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion
This is a notification to let you know that there is a requested move discussion ongoing at Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/April_2015_move_request#Requested_move. You are receiving this notification because you have previously participated in some capacity in naming discussions related to the article in question.
Hi, I nominated the 65th FIFA Congress and Sepp Blatter's reelection as president of FIFA for ITN, especially amid the controversy about the corruption at the moment. If you want you can take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#65th_FIFA_Congress Lucky102 (talk) 17:42, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
- I was actually wondering that as well and was thinking of putting a "(I hope)" or something similar but didn't bother in the end. The first deletion could have been completely unexpected since the mediawiki does seem to very occasionally do that if you get an edit conflict. Happening twice in a row seems fairly unlikely though. I was thinking there is a possibility the editor got an edit conflict and simply copied everything and pasted it, which would be wrong (well unless they were planning to fix it but I intervened before they managed to but I doubt that), but not an intentional deletion per se. Nil Einne (talk) 02:51, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
Nil, SM pinged me so I answered, end of story. Beyond the point that I don't understand what you mean with your question, if you want to continue to argue the ref desk thread two days after it was archived, please unarchive it rather than expect me to continue within the archival. I see no point in that given Iblis has basically conceded the matter, and the removal policy is still in place. μηδείς (talk) 21:38, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
- Both of you continued discussion in the archived thread without reopening it, so it was entirely reasonable for me to do so as well. Regardless of who pinged who, both of you had the option of either unarchiving it, or simply not responding. Since you both choose to instead simply continue the discussion in the archived thread, it's entirely resonable for others to likewise do so.
- If you don't wish to respond further, that's entirely up to you, but the fact it's archived is no more relevant than it was when you previously chose to respond. The fact that it's been 2 days is also irrelevant. Nothing has significantly changed since then, and it's unresonable to expect people to follow the RD talk page with such regularity that they need to respond to unurgent matters in less than 2 days. Even more so when the discussion was closed before those 2 days.
- To some extent SM as the person who first responded after the thread had been archived can be said to have greater responsibility to either unarchive the thread, or not respond when it was archived, but ultimately each person, including me, has to accept what they did and can't fault others for their decisions.
- Anyway, the point you seem to be missing, is that there is no policy that we must always remove every question that contains anything that can be remotely construed as a request for medical advice. The wording you quoted makes this clear. It says we may remove it. Since you regularly provide English language advice at RDL, I'm going to assume I don't need to provide a dictionary to help you understand what 'may' means.
- Nothing in the guideline you quoted says we must definitely removing everything which contains anything which can be remotely construed as a request for medical advice.
- However what the guideline you quoted does effectively say is we will not provide medical diagnosis. Specifically "We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis". (Again, you yourself quoted this.) While some people intepret this to mean simply that nothing we say is medical diagnosis, the much more widely accepted definition is that it's not acceptable to provide anything which is basically medical diagnosis (even if you say it isn't).
- Therefore when someone, like Count Iblis provides something which everyone else agrees is medical diagnosis, this is completely inappropriate and far worse than a question which can be construed as a request for medical advice but isn't really that clear. Count Iblis had the option of either not responding, removing the question or simply reinterating that we don't provide medical diagnosis. I would have supported any three of these options. What was never an option was to provide medical diagnosis. And as I've already said several times, in a question which wasn't ever a clear cut request for such.
- I don't understand why you bring up Count Iblis conceding the point. You response only came after this happened. It's not a new detail. So again, it's no more relevant now, than it was when you first responded.
- If you're going to make claims unsupported by the actual guidelines, it's resonable for people to challenge them, and while you are free to ignore such challenges, you don't get to say you don't have to respond because it doesn't matter, when the reason you claim it doesn't matter already existed when you first made the claim.
- P.S. The primary reason we do remove clear cut requests for medical diagnosis/advice, is not because such questions are super evil. But because long history has shown that leaving them be is a bad idea since someone will come along who will provide what most consider unacceptable medical diagnosis. While some such as SM believe that was should just get harsher the answers, IMO history has shown this doesn't work. Regardless however, one thing that is clear is that the bad answers which provide medical diagnosis which we aren't supposed to are the main problem. Not the genuine questions themselves, which ultimately are harmless of no one responds to them (or simply reinterate the point).
- Trolling questions are another matter, but trolling is IMO a problem whether it's a request for medical advice or a question which would be entirely without the purview of the RD were it not for the fact it's trolling.
- And I don't think it's clear that the question of concern was trolling. Even if it was, it seems fairly unlikely the OP could have predicted that someone would provide medical advice. (The question was a bit weird, but the most likely answers were not those containing medical advice. And if there was a trolling angle it was surely not based on the prediction that someone would provide medical advice and a constroversy would so erupt.)
- Nil Einne (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2015 (UTC)