User talk:Nyttend/Archive 9

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YouTube Video Poem About Colstrip, Montana

Please be aware: YouTube isn't a reliable source, and your usage here fails the external links standards: external links shouldn't be in the middle of the text, and having that link in the Colstrip article really isn't necessary for the article. I can't see the video (I'm on a borrowed computer, as my computer's wireless isn't working at the moment), and I can't see the video: where's the video from? Is it a video taken by the uploader? Or is it perhaps a video taken from a TV broadcast? Nyttend backup (talk) 15:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Answer: The Youtube video shows Wally McRae on his ranch near Colstrip reciting his poem about the changes that have happened to Colstrip from the time he grew up there, and the impact that the coal mines and plants have had. He is a Poet Laureate, nationally recognized. It is relevant to the topic of Colstrip, not amenable to paraphrasing, and by the way shows a notable person from Colstrip. BTW, I am not Wally McRae... P.primo (talk) 18:30, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Sonja Bernhardt proposed deletion

Hello Nyttend- I am new to wikipedia so please be 'kind' to me.

I am Sonja Bernhardt you have commented on the delete my page discussion.

There have been some modifications to draw out the significant coverage and notability a little further - was hesitant at first to try to avoid over pr/marketing and instead jsut to state some facts.

I also ask WHY when within Australia Pia Waugh (a wikipedia page entry) is an acceptable entry and Sonja (me) who is within that country as notable (and arguable more notable) as Pia and the content is written in a like style considered for deletion.

The content is NOT a CV/resume (and barely gives any work information) it is ALL about industry VOLUNTARY activity that is notable and has been making a difference to the industry.

I invite you to google my name and see the many things and other references NOT included in the factual content provided for wikipedia.

The entry tried REALLY hard NOT or promote/PR or market speak but to stick to facts and to notable industry (not work related and instead to stick to non paid difference making) activities. Things I created and programs I designed have been experienced by tens of thousands of women in the industry and hundred of thousands of school children. And now with the Doing IT Around the World project just not within Australia bit also around the globe.

I also flag within Australia AWISE and WiT are equivilant to ABI and WITI in America and in reality Sonja Bernhardt equates to Anita Borg and Carolyn Leighton 'fame' in her home country.

I request you reconsider your comments and perhaps assist in building the content to map better to the expected standards. regards Sonja —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

2 october - ps article modified some content removed to make it less a 'dump' plus references to other verified independent sources added eg Australian federal Government plus Queensland state government.. Please re look and reconside suitability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonjabern (talkcontribs) 22:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Nutbush, Tennessee and Randolph, Tennessee - Two questions

Hi there, recently I added Nutbush, Tennessee to the county template but it was removed by you. I am not exactly sure what the edit summary means. If you find the time, please explain why Nutbush is not an unincorporated community. I mean, if you go there, the sign reads "Nutbush unincorporated" and according to the positioning of the signs when you enter and exit the town, it is entirely in Haywood County. The information in the intro of the article was partly done by another editor of the article, where it says that parts of it are in Lauderdale County, I doubt it. About what I know, Nutbush is entirely in Haywood today, it might have been different in the old times...I have not found any solid proof yet.

I would really appreciate your help in clarifying the situation of Nutbush, because it does not make sense to have wrong or ambiguous information in the article. And as it seems that you are quite an expert in this field I would be very happy if you could check your sources and find out about the current status of that lil' ol' town.

I started a new article about Randolph, Tennessee today. Can I add it to the Tipton County template as unincorporated community?

Thank you very much and take care, doxTxob \ talk 21:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Wandering through (due to my interest in Nyttend's work on Tennessee templates)... I know precious little about Nutbush, but it's clear to me that it's not a neighborhood of a city, but rather a tiny rural enclave far outside the nearest real town. The issue seems to be the article language (which has been there for a very long time) that says it "has been considered part of Brownsville, in Haywood County, and Ripley in Lauderdale County." All I can figure is that this means the post office has at one time or another treated it as a rural route served from Brownsville and at other times as a rural route served from Ripley. Regardless, for all I can tell the sentence is unsourced, and therefore should be replaced with a simple statement indicating which county it is in (or if it spans the county line). --Orlady (talk) 23:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks a lot Nyttend and Orlady for both of your expertise and your help! doxTxob \ talk 04:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Olmitz, Kansas,_Kansas

My edits are correct and are from the latest population survey of Olmitz, Kansas from 2007, available here:

I have reverted my edits as they are factually correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:52, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Re:Sweet Grass, Montana

Hi. I just wanted to let you know that after looking at the provided sources, I agree with you that the community is unincorporated. I left a similar message on the article's talk page. --Acntx (talk) 14:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Salt Flat, Texas

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A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Salt Flat, Texas, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Danorton (talk) 04:01, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Rochester, Vermont

I re-corrected the link to the Official Town Website. I also added external links to the School and Public Library. These links are correct.,_Vermont --Normyo (talk) 17:35, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


Sorry about the "city" edit. Thanks for the info. Robsavoie (talk) 18:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Pine Hill, California conflict

You used Lisco, Nebraska as the example to follow and then undid my work in contradiction with your own example. Are you willing to let this error stand because of the incorrect US Census name? Why not at least follow the Nebraska example and use the correct name? (I provide the County of Humboldt as proof - County of Humboldt "Pine Hill"). In a correction, wikipedia would use the bold incorrect pluralization of the community to begin the text of the article, but use the correct name of the community (the singular "Pine Hill") as the name of the article, with all redirects to it. In addition, if you look at every official or news reference to this community, you will find that the singular term is used for everything, including Churches, stores, the only grammar school...everything! Though it is true the certain sites, especialy real estate and relocation sites as well as Google maps use the plural, I ask who are they or who is anyone, for that matter, to question the government of the County of Humboldt and its inhabitants -- in fact the very people that live on Pine Hill? I am also curious as to how you decided that the "actual" (your term) name is in the plural form? Thank you for your time. Norcalal 07:03, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

St. Michael

Normally, I would have moved the article, but since the destination article Saint Michael already existed as a redirect, it is my understanding that a move wouldn't work. Doesn't the desination article have to be non-existence/deleted before you can move an article? Since there was only one edit in article and redirect page histories prior to my action, I figured I could get by with a cut-and-paste in this instance. Is there a way that a non-admin like me can move articles to existing redirect pages, or do the redirects need to be deleted by an admin first?DCmacnut<> 21:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

No more questions. Thanks. I decided to test it out after my note. A few weeks back, I tried such a move with another editors mismove of United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, but the system wouldn't let me finish the move. I just assumed that it wouldn't work in this case as well. I probably should have tried first.DCmacnut<> 22:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

BJ Lawson

When you said that blogs were not reliable sources, you took out not just the sources but the information stated within the sources-- after which the rest of the material didn't make sense. It included David Price's reaction to something that was never stated. Someone even put a tag on that section saying there wasn't enough context. Blogs from candidates and from newspapers, as the News & Observer is, can be used and sometimes are the best sources for candidates' positions. These are not random blogs off the Internet but ones that have an accountable source backing the information, in this case the subject of the article and Raleigh's major daily newspaper. Before you say that blogs can't be used next time, it would perhaps be best to first check who is publishing those blogs and that you're not cutting full paragraphs from an article that already doesn't have enough information. The "Under the Dome" blog from the News and Observer is one of the best sources for news on North Carolina politics.--Gloriamarie (talk) 00:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Lisco, Nebraska

I'm not about to start an edit war, and will wait until we have further information from the US Census Bureau. But as stated on the talk page, it appears that your claim that there's a CDP named Cisco is in error. Andrewa (talk) 03:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. See Talk:Lisco, Nebraska#From my talk page for my reply. Andrewa (talk) 04:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Ohio courthouses and NRHP infobox tips

Hi Nyttend -- I noticed you've added a nice Ohio courthouses template and made other edits relating to Ohio courthouse articles. There's some tools available which might help you be even more productive. I just commented along these lines to User:Bwsmith84's talk page -- I noticed also that Bwsmith84 created articles and/or added NRHP infoboxes for several Ohio county courthouses listed among the National Register of Historic Places listings in Ohio.

Anyhow, for the infoboxes, there's a neat tool available: the Elkman NRHP infobox generator at []. All you do is search on the NRHP name and OH for Ohio. It yields a cut-and-paste-ready infobox, with all the data fields filled out where National Register info system data is available.

I think Bwsmith84 and you must not have been aware of this, because several of your infoboxes seemed to be created by cut-and-paste from other courthouse articles, which can lead to some small errors and omissions. In particular i think at least the Marion County Courthouse (Ohio) article and the Belmont County Courthouse article contained a refnum for the Butler County Courthouse instead.

Also there are tools available which help in creating disambiguation pages that cover all the NRHP sites, such as Logan County Courthouse disambig article which I just created, after noting your comment in an edit summary at the Ohio list-article. I'd be happy to share about that tool and other stuff too. Cheers, doncram (talk) 15:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Got your note back. I didn't mean to imply limitations on what you put in the NRHP infobox. The NRHP generator tool provides a good start, better than copying from another article's infobox, that's all. You can fill in other fields, and add info with different source footnotes like from the Ohio Courthouses book you seem to have. Anyhow, it's a tool to use if you find it helpful. Also, if there is incorrect info in the NRIS-provided fields, you should certainly correct that. Like about "Public Sq." for one location, which you suggest is wrong, that is listed in the NRIS system. If you have local knowledge that is not the current street name, by all means correct it. Also, by the way, the geographic coordinates in the NRIS database are known to be close, usually, but slightly off due to a nation-wide switch from an old coordinates system to the current GPS system, which causes a 20-40 yard shift in where a place appears. If you have precise current GPS coordinates, those should override the NRIS ones. doncram (talk) 16:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, good. I wasn't careful about who seems to be adding info according to what book. It's just i noticed there's a book County Courthouses of Ohio by Susan W. Thrane cited in some of the articles, including Belmont County Courthouse. I didn't check who added that and developed that article. The Belmont article, by the way, was incorrectly given an NRHP infobox and identified as an NRHP site, while it appears not to be an NRHP. I corrected that and some other errors, when browsing through some of the contribution history of bwsmith. But i am not going to go through all of the Ohio courthouse articles myself in order to look for errors and correct them; on this point I am just trying to call attention to the presence of some errors, hoping that other editors like you might look more systematically at the problem. Thanks. doncram (talk) 16:40, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I noticed in particular you are creating Ohio courthouse pages, and having to speculate for some whether a given courthouse name could be used, or whether there would be other notable courthouses of the same name in other states. I took the liberty to check for and create all the necessary disambiguation pages based on any NRHPs of same name in another state. Details covered at Template talk:Ohio County Courthouses. Modified Template:Ohio County Courthouses accordingly. Let me know if you have any questions, but you should not have to guess any longer about what name to use for a new Ohio courthouse article. doncram (talk) 07:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi there

As one of the few members who I still seem lurking around the Ohio Project I was wondering if you could take a look at this. Any stylistic or content remarks would be helpful. I'm not sure if this is the solution to the current page (I hate it for some reason), what do you think? I tried to keep it consolidated with much of the content moved to tabs. Thanks for your time. (The portal look is to mirror P:OH, maybe a bad idea...) §hep¡Talk to me! 21:31, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep nosing around. If you have any suggestions for front page conent please let me know. Thanks for your time! §hep¡Talk to me! 18:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
(To avoid another section) Of course. I don't think I've seen that one before today. §hep¡Talk to me! 01:01, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Sure. PS I readded the map to the Hardin County courthouse. §hep¡Talk to me! 01:16, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Deansboro, New York

Hi! Would you please look at the Deansboro, New York article?It needs a template and some cleanup. I came across the article when I was looking at the Samson Occom article the Brothertown Idians of Wisconsin.I am not familiar with New York's local government system to make the changes. Thanks-RFD (talk) 16:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks-RFD (talk) 23:52, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Independence, Kansas

The in line EL for Independence High School has been undone by you. I guess I don't understand the reasoning for this action, especially since 6 lines down the listing for the the Zion Lutheran School is an EL. This is the second time that my edits to this article have been revised by you. The other involved The William Inge Center for the Arts. Am I taking this too personal? I want the article Independence, Kansas to be a good, readable Wiki article. Admitedly I am a rank amateur Wiki editor and don't understand all the fine points of editing. I don't quite understand what is wrong. Can you take the time to explain what must be done to make this article comply with Wiki standards? I see dozens of articles in wikipedia that have the same type of EL's as those you have reverted. I realize that just because these exist doesn't necessarily make them correct form. Help me become a better editor and I won't make the same mistakes twice. I realize that you are busy, I can tell that from the dozens of articles that various users have asked you to review. I'm looking for guidance, not a fight, please help and I promise to pass that information along to some other beginner in the future.Cuprum17 (talk) 00:56, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

ZCTA pop data

Thanks for backstopping me on all the ZCTA stuff. I guess I should learn the "proper" source. But then, it's so easy to count on you to set it right... [evil grin]. Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 04:00, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Cat Rock Hollow

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An article that you have been involved in editing, Cat Rock Hollow, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cat Rock Hollow. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice?

Trey Green deletion in error

You wrongfully deleted Trey Green because the lack of something or another as a real person - Please research subjects before you have them deleted. As simple google search for Trey Green, or search iTunes, YouTube, MySpace, Facebook, go to his webpage...anything will show that Trey Green is a real person - please explain this and please have the page put back up. I'm sure this was a misunderstanding? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Blocked is a sock puppet also

Just for your information: an IP you blocked, (talk · contribs), is part of my sock puppet nomination Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Seatreker. He went back to Seatreker as soon as you blocked his IP. --Closeapple (talk) 07:42, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


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Hello, Nyttend. You have new messages at Mazca's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Y'all doin' a great job - thank you!

Hello! I wanted to drop a line of appreciation for your work on the Ozark article. I don't agree with your position in the AfD discussion, but I respect your successful efforts to improve the article and your intelligent advocacy of its merits. I enjoy a spirited exchange of ideas, and I am glad to be in this conversation with you. Be well. Ecoleetage (talk) 12:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Colfax Township, Dallas County, Iowa

How so are the items placed in the article, as they are public public display items? Please reply. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rabbit.runner (talkcontribs) 09:59, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding your recent revert war with Rabbit.runner, I think you are taking too much ownership. The article is not too large, and the quotation that you question is not too large; it establishes context and contributes to the article, it's clearly formatted as a quotation with attribution. It's not a copyright violation, and in addition you have been reverting other sourced content along with the quotation itself. On top of that, you're not being welcoming to Rabbit.runner who is just trying to expand the article. We need new, involved editors; let's not discourage them. Omnedon (talk) 22:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Reed Township, Seneca County, Ohio

WP:OVERLINK#What generally should not be linked gives examples of the type of thing that should not be linked. This includes

Items that would be familiar to most readers of the article, such as the names of major geographic features and locations, astronomical objects, historical events, religions, languages, and common professions.

This point is specifically intended to discourage linking to universally familiar items such as United States (and other major countries). It's reasonable to assume that just about any reader in the entire world has heard of the United States - it's a link that provides no benefit because no-one is ever going to use it, unlike the link to Ohio, which many readers may not be familiar with. Colonies Chris (talk) 12:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

It may well be common practice for articles about US places to contain a link to United States (and similarly for other major countries, no doubt), but it's not a standard, it's not useful and it goes against the manual of style. The article should of course state that the place is in the US, but there is no benefit in linking to that article. Links are there so that a user can follow them to improve their understanding of the topic. Do you think anyone has ever used those links, or ever will? These links don't contribute to a user's understanding, they just distract attention from the more useful and valuable links in the article. A paper encylopaedia wouldn't have a footnote referring you to the 'United States' article on p. 9261 in every article on a place in the US, and nor should an online encyclopaedia. Colonies Chris (talk) 13:34, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Court Avenue

Updated DYK query On 18 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Court Avenue, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

-- How do you turn this on (talk) 00:25, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the notice! §hep¡Talk to me! 02:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Eureka, MT

I'm requesting that you stop deleting the links for the TVIA and the Sunburst Foundation. Both of these organizations are local non-profits that are dedicated to helping the local community grow. I understand the need to not have every business in town listed, but this is such a small town and I do think that these organizations are worth listing. Thank you for your time working on the article, I appreciate that someone is watching an article for such a small place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

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Hello, Nyttend. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop.
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Re:Fort Bliss

I see that. I am hoping that the afd will shut the door on any future attempts to break up the article content like this. I am also asking that the milhist poeple look into ammending our mos to deal with this problem since it seems to be a reoccuring problem. At any rate, thanks for your help. TomStar810 (Talk) 23:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Coal Run

Sorry, I forgot to add the citation! D'oh. Also, I forgot how to format it since it's been awhile. It probably deserves a current event section tag, or something similar for the time being. It might not be note-worthy enough to include for the long-term, but it's a small town with a small -'pedia article, and I think this article helps individualize and identify it from amongst the rest of the town/community stubs on this site, not to mention how strange it is that it [the town] has been overlooked for so long RETURNING TO THE OLD AMERICAN CENTURY.

NRHP naming conventions, and county list tables

Thanks for table-izing the List of RHPs in KS part way, and for asking questions about it at wt:NRHP. I hope Elkman's response to you there was helpful. For the New York State List of RHPs in NY, I went through all the weekly NPS listings back through April 2008 to get the new listings' info, such as date listed, etc.

But, Sanfranman59, the main updater of all the NRHP lists, also can provide you a list/table of the Kansas ones (as an extract from a spreadsheet of them all) so that you don't have to go through the weekly listings. I'll ask him to comment here.

The need for table-izing is great, and the complexity of the task is pretty high, so I do hope you will keep consulting as questions come up.

One tip/request: I find that for edit history purposes and for clarity of what the Elkman generator provides vs. what you edit, it is best to paste in Elkman tables in one edit, and save, and then proceed with additional editing. Right now, as you start with this, I would like to see that done, so I or others would be able to review your decisions a bit and perhaps provide feedback.

For other tips, please see recent discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 16#Table-izing the state NRHP lists.

About one naming convention issue, I notice that you chose to go with Palace Theater (Kansas) as the suggested name for one red-link NRHP in the list. I checked the previous name, and see it was a red-link, so i see you did not lose a valid link. And I see that you renamed Palace Theater (Kinsley, Kansas) to Palace Theater (Kansas) in the Palace Theater disambiguation page, which is consistent and thorough of you to address. However, I created or developed that Palace Theater disambig page, so i noticed that, and I believe that the consistent naming convention for NRHP places is to add (Town or City, State) after an ambiguous name. You are correct of course that this is the only Palace Theater at the disambig page which is in Kansas, so the town or city name is not strictly necessary for distinguishing it there now, but the convention is to add the town or city name, too. And I think that provides a better, clearer article name. Note, the name can also be viewed as being in "very specific, broader place, broader place" order, like as in "Palace Theater, Kinsley, Kansas, United States, Earth, Solar System, Universe". Going up only as far as Kansas seems to be best, which includes Kinsley on the way. This convention applies really broadly for NRHP property names. (An exception in practice, which actually I think needs to be addressed, has been for county courthouse names which have just borne the (State) disambiguation; i think that I will launch a drive to bring all of those into (town, state) format too.)

Hope this feedback is helpful. doncram (talk) 18:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I replied to your questions at my talk page, there. I'll watch here, too, if you want to keep the discussion all in one place (here being perhaps better). doncram (talk) 19:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh, another important thing, is please consider adding notes to wp:NRIS info issues, if you notice there is a discrepancy in the NRIS and/or Elkman data. Say if you notice a town name is wrong, or the geo coordinates for a site are way off. We are trying to collect such instances for batch reporting to the National Register, and I think it is also to keep a central record of our "original research"-type decisions to go differently than the NRIS data presents. Also, there were more discussions about doing this table-izing right, between Sanfranman and myself mostly, at User talk:Doncram#A request, User talk:Sanfranman59#table-izing, User talk:Doncram#table-izing. You might or might not choose to browse those, not sure if those have useful stuff for you. doncram (talk) 19:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
As Doncram indicates, I have a spreadsheet with NRHP listings posted from March 28 through August 8. There were 40 new listings added in Kansas during that time period. I haven't updated the spreadsheet with listings since August 8, so you'll need to click through the recent listings links on the NPS website to get the details of any listings posted since then. I'm not sure how to get the spreadsheet information to you unless I send it as an email attachment. It won't cut-and-paste very well here. Send me an email through my User page and I'll reply with the spreadsheet attached and post a message on my talk page to let me know to check that email address (I don't monitor it closely). --sanfranman59 (talk) 03:11, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
The spreadsheet's on its way. Happy editing! --sanfranman59 (talk) 04:19, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Photographic hero

When I "grow up" I hope to be more like you and have heaps of photo contributions. Now if only my community-style photos at Commons were half as good as yours! --Kralizec! (talk) 18:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Green Bay (town), Wisconsin deletion

This is a SOS! Some editor put the Green Bay (town), Wisconsin article up for deletion claiming it does not exist. The town of Green Bay does exist in Brown County but it is not adjacent to the city of Green Bay. Thanks-RFD (talk) 20:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

The debate about the town of Green Bay, Wisconsin article being deleted was closed.There was no merit about deleting the article.Thanks-RFD (talk) 23:17, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Glen Ilah deleted from Yarnell AZ page

Why was the community of Glen Ilah directly SW of Yarnell AZ deleted? I may have accidently said SE but it is SW on the western side of Hwy 89.

EoGuy (talk) 06:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)EoGuy

Abram S. Piatt

Thanks for catching that error! I copied a template from Francis Fessenden and used that to create this new article. I neglected to change the service date. Good catch! 8th Ohio Volunteer Infantry (talk) 12:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Re:Template:Geneva Golden Tornadoes football coach navbox

Trying to keep things organized. If you check out Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/MasterTeamTable, you'll notice where X96lee15 renamed all the coaching templates for the FBS (I-A) teams as University + Team name + football coach navbox. In an effort to standardize things I've gone through and renamed all of the FCS (I-AA) teams to follow suit. I've also renamed the NAIA, Division III and defunct teams. Haven't gotten to Division II yet. It's a lot of work. :) --Geologik (talk) 00:35, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Re:Stratford Shoal

Fair enough.

Not trying to cause mayhem on that wikipedia article just to let you know. I just thought "hey, this is an unincorporated territory and is unique". Im not going to push it any further thou.

Also sory about the 3 times revert thing. I was not aware of that rule here on wikipedia and am now abbiding by it


Removal of speedy tag from Image:Li hongzhi curing people.jpg

I placed the unsourced tag on that image because the copyright information provided says it's PD and created by the user, but I don't think that's true. Maybe he found four images online and put them together like that, but that doesn't mean it's his own work. And I've seen similar pictures of Li Hongzhi of the same format (four pictures arranged together) that do have source information (I can try to track some down again and give you links if you like). In any case, I'm pretty sure the image is not PD; do you know if there's any better way for me to check that? —Politizer talk/contribs 14:38, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your message. I don't have any concrete evidence handy, but I will try listing it anyway. Considering that the image is orphaned, I guess it wouldn't hurt to try. —Politizer talk/contribs 16:50, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Honolulu et al

Please see Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (settlements)#Proposed fixing of the convention for US cities. An Administrator was needed to make most of the moves. But I am still working through the backlog of WP:RM. I suggest that you ask the move proposer to assist in altering the templates. The move proposer was User:Derek.cashman --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 19:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

All but two I said I would not move, are moved. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 19:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Trego, MT

I noticed that you are the one that created the Lincoln County, Montana template. I added Trego, MT as a unincorporated community, if you would like to create the article for it that would be great, it does have a post office with zip code 59934. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:51, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Template:Ohio County Courthouses

Hi. Why do you insist on adding the word "current" to this template. The Cuyahoga County Courthouse, for instance, is not the current one. The current one is part of the Justice Center Complex (Cleveland, Ohio). Actually the ones in the template are there primarily for their historic status rather than their current status. In other states such as Florida, you will find listings for several courthouse of diffent vintage in the same county. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk)

Abram S. Piatt

Good job on finding the picture! Nyttend (talk) 04:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. I also added a few bits of info, and I'll do more as I find stuff on the guy. Kresock (talk) 16:28, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Berlin, Ohio

Yes, I understand why you are trying to sanitize the article to conform to certain standards, but I stand behind the belief that the best town and village articles are the ones that provide insights into the town's charactor. Your version gives no indication that Berlin is one of the most popular tourist attractions in the state, generating several thousand visitors a day, and the biggest Amish tourist attraction in the country. This article should not be limited simply because no newspaper or book has recently done an story that can be referenced on the town's tourism. - Ken keisel (talk) 18:28, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, if you take the statements listed in the WP:V and WP:RS articles, since they cite only other Wikipedia articles for their references, which in turn cite these articles for their references, then these articles violate their own rules and should be deleted!! In addition, much of what can be referenced using these rules is widely inaccurate. It basically comes back to the "statement of fact" debate that raged here about a year ago. In other words, if I write an article about a famous building and I say the building is grey, but no one has published an article stating that it is gray, even if I post a photo of it in the article should the statement of color could be removed without further references? An amazing number of people said "yes", though it was ultimately concluded that most statements of the obvious should be allowed. At some point you have to let good sense step in and allow writers to state obvious facts without the need for references, such as the Amish tourist industry in Berlin- Ken keisel (talk) 23:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been writing for Wikipedia since late 2004, and have created about 45 articles. Unfortunately, any discussion of what is obvious or not is subject to POV, but you must agree that some statements of the obvious are so obvious as to need little debate. In the case of "Berlin, Ohio" I live in Columbus and have been going to Berlin a minimum of four times a year since 1986, when it was just a quiet little town with a few Amish buggys coming and going. Back then the biggest buisness was the feed store. Now it is the largest Amish tourist attraction in the nation, attracting up to 20,000 visitors a day, year round. The locals say that Berlin gets more visitors in a year than Cedar Point (which is closed for half the year), and I've no reason to doubt that. Since the amount of tourism in the town is almost frightening (you can hardly drive through it on most days), and Amish tourist buisnesses have taken over every single store and home on Main Street, the statements I wrote about Amish tourism I think fall into the "statement of the obvious" catagory. - Ken keisel (talk) 00:52, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

NRHP templates

Ya it was kind of a combination of two templates. I was thinking about using {{!}}, but I think that &middot looks better (just my opinon). I also didn't want to just knock off another template. --CPacker talk to me 03:39, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Its cool, thanks for the advice :)--CPacker talk to me 05:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Cities and towns

Well im not really sure when that law happend. Do you have a link to Bureau page with cities and towns info?--CPacker talk to me 05:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


I noticed that you'd asked Akhilleus what Ariobarza's latest personal attack meant. He has a habit of attacking editors with whom he disagrees; having reviewed his edits systematically, I believe there are significant concerns about him that need to be addressed. I have raised this issue at WP:AN/I#User:Ariobarza. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion. -- ChrisO (talk) 20:26, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

"only sourced Census Bureau results are acceptable for demographics"


I noticed that you replaced more recent population counts from the pages on Walnut Creek, California and Concord, California with figures from the 2000 Census, and in your edit summary you stated "only sourced Census Bureau results are acceptable for demographics". Hopefully I'm not reopening an issue that has already been resolved, but I'm wondering why other reputable and verifiable demographic data can't be used as well. For example, for cities with a Census 2000 population of greater than 65,000, the Census Bureau provides yearly updates through the American Community Survey. Additionally, in California the State Department of Finance's Demographic Research Unit provides updated population data for every city and county in the state on an annual basis. I realize that most of the time the Census is the most accurate data source as they do the most complete job of actually going out and physically counting people, but particularly in fast-growing or fast-changing areas (such as California), the numbers can change quite a bit in 10 years, often resulting in rather obsolete data.

Thanks, Spicoli (talk) 05:02, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Hercules, California, population data

Hi. I saw that you made this edit to Hercules, California. While I would normally agree that official Census data should be preferred over other sources, the population of Hercules has increased by so much since the last Census — a net change of about +25.3% — that it would create a misleading picture of the city's current demographics if the article were to primarily present figures from 2000. I have kept mention of the 2000 Census's population figure in the lead, but I have changed the infobox back to using a more-current (and now cited) estimate. --Dynaflow babble 06:17, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

IMO, Nyttend's action was correct in part. An unsourced census estimate from 2007 should not have replaced the count from 2000. However, the estimate belongs in the article in addition to the actual count -- with a source. This general topic was discussed recently at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities/Guideline#Including non-Census demographic data. --Orlady (talk) 12:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Yet another request

Hi. The July 1, 2007 Census Bureau population estimates for Nebraska Townships can be found at the following links.

  • [1] - Comma Separated Values (CSV) file
  • [2] - Excel (XLS) Spreadsheet file

The information is the same, but the formats are different. If I can be of any more help, just let me know. --Acntx (talk) 12:35, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

The Census Bureau's 2007 Subcounty population estimates were published in mid-July and can be found at this link: --Acntx (talk) 22:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Meaningful smalltown demographics

Hi; just saw your edits to Nespelem, Washington and Tonasket, Washington and various others. I've made the comments I'm about to repeat, or re-jig, on other pages, I think on Talk:Marcus, Washington and I can't remember where else...I guess I'm a bit old-fashioned but, coming from places that are s small or smaller than Nespelem and Tonasket, the absurdity of referring to hadnfuls of individuals as "percentages" always looks odd. I realize that the statistical/quantitative obsessions of modern social sciences and also the delivery/presentation of census figures is structure in these ways. But for a population of only 212, you have to admit there's a certain absurdity to:

The racial makeup of the town was 13.68% White, 82.08% Native American, 0.47% Asian, 0.47% Pacific Islander, 1.42% from other races, and 1.89% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3.30% of the population.

I don't have time to do the reverse calculation, but it strikes me that "0.47% Pacific Islander" is a single individual; 13.68% white is what? - 30 people? 3.3% Hispanic or Latino is - eight people? I guess I come from a time when people were actually considered human beings, not statistics arranged for political purposes (which is what censuses are). And rather tahn arranging people by "colour" or "visible minority" it's more relevant in these little places if those "white" people are...Scots? Old-stock American? Scandinavian? German? Italian?.....and it would be interesting and relevant to regional history of that "Pacific Islander" were a Kanaka - unles ethnic Hawaiians are a separate classification in the US Census. And of the Native Americans, are they all Nespelem (tribe) or once again are there other groups within that colour/visible minority classificaiton. In general I'm hostile to the classification of people by "visible minority" and think it's inherently racist; but typically census data is not taken for ethnic origin lately, but only for racial contexts...rather than cure racism, the stastical system has entrenched it. None of this is your problem, but I'd like to start a trend in smalltown article edits where the actual numbers of people, i.e. solid bodies not fractional percentages, are given alongside, or in preference/priority to, the statistical percentages. There is no such thing as 0.47% of a person, except in state of advanced decomposition or perhaps amputation....also the population desnities for a lot of these are wildly misleading; one in Canada gives a relatively - very - small Indian reserve as being of very high desnity; but they're in the middle of a vast sea of mountains or prairie, with no one else around; simply based on land boundaries of the proscribed area....anyway to me it's just all a little bit absurd and I hope you give this some thought about presentation of data for smalltowns being a different matter than for large cities; is there a Wikiproject Demographics or workgroup where this issue can be fielded? I don't think it's trivial.....Skookum1 (talk) 15:16, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Not familiar with US Census Bureau practices, though they're similar to those used in Canada; in Canada though I think the self-identifier is ethnicity, and the visible-minority classification issues from that; I have problems with the way they assume that Argentines adn Brazilians are "visible" and don't address things like Germanized Turks etc..."country of origin" is used to determine "visible minority/race" but taht's obviously fallacious. Sure, people will state what race they are when asked; more's the pity.....interesitnlyg in Canada you can say "Canadian" without anything else, i.e .as ethnicity.....the race-classification issue is I know intractable because it's the way teh data is collected and also provided. But do US censuses also ask for ethnicity as well as race? No point in asking "if not, why not?" as there is no answer other than a politically-spawned one. I would hope taht they do, as some towns are notable for particulars of their ethnic origin, .e.g Blaine WA is reportedly the largest Icelandic community in the US but I have no stats to back that up. BUT since the US census does provde exact head-counts, doesn't it seem - or wouldn't it seem - to make sense, and give proper context in these tiny places, to refer to them as numbers of indiviausl, instead of the asbttractino of percentages; not "isntead of" of course, but the percentages to me belong in brackets with the absolute integers-population in primary placement. As for the content/ethnicity of the Native American population, perhaps the Colville Reservation keeps or maybe even posts on their website town-data on that.Skookum1 (talk) 18:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Obviously, 0.47% of 212 tells us that one person self-identified as PI, but I suspect there will be a percentage statistic that doesn't quite work out, and the "best-guess" method that most of us would implement could be construed as original research. Although I personally like the idea of using integers instead of percentages, it might be best just to use what the source provides, without having to do any math. just $.02.--Appraiser (talk) 19:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
The source does provide the integer - see Nyttend's reply on my talkpage.Skookum1 (talk) 19:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh - thanks. Then I'll just say I prefer integers and butt out of your conversation.--Appraiser (talk) 19:25, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Butt in if you want, but probably better on my talkpage rather than Nyttend's so we don't annoy him :-)...."Integers vs. percentages" is a topic for some discussion board somewhere, I just don't know where....Skookum1 (talk) 20:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Postville, Iowa

Thanks for the revert. See this Associated Press article: Blog on meat plant was astroturf, not grassroots. There's something of a PR effort going on. Not that it's likely to help, since the former CEO of Agriprocessors was arrested Thursday and the bank says they're foreclosing next week. At some point, spin is futile. --John Nagle (talk) 02:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

"cities" on Alaska templates

Me again...I see you created {{Prince of Wales-Outer Ketchikan Census Area, Alaska}} and presumably others up there (Alaska)....see Template talk:Prince of Wales-Outer Ketchikan Census Area, Alaska. Surely Kasaan isn't a city.....if it's incorporated, shouldn't its designation be what it's labelled as; or if not incorporated the Wikipedia standard is "settlements" (at least in cats, I'll find the CFD discussion about that if you want...). On {{Subdivisions of British Columbia}} we distinguish between cities, district municipalities, towns, villages and settlements (no "localities" section but there are enough there should be). Not sure what the standard in other US states is, it just seems odd ot refer to a place with les than 40 people as a "city" - unless it's incorporated as such.Skookum1 (talk) 16:33, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Coordinate templates

Hi. You've been putting {{Geolinks-US-cityscale}} and {{Mapit-US-cityscale}} back into articles, but use of those templates is deprecated. The "coordinates_display = display=inline,title " in {{Infobox Settlement}} accomplishes the same thing — making the article visible to Google Maps.
—WWoods (talk) 00:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Blair, Nebraska

Whoops, you are defiantly right! Thank you for correcting this and bringing it to my attention. MatthewYeager 03:46, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Steptoe & Johnson (West Virginia)

"One man's meat is . . ." Funny, I thought being #235 was basically a concession of non-notability. Bongomatic (talk) 12:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I agree with your view . . . just when I read it, I thought, "what?!" Appreciate your taking the speedy process seriously, and will think about AfD. Bongomatic (talk) 14:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Ancient Persian problems

You recently contributed to an AfD discussion on an article about ancient Persian history. I have been reviewing the contributions of the editors who have been involved in these and other related articles, and have found a considerable number of issues - bad writing, original research, lack of sourcing or citations, and POV problems. I have posted the results of my review at User:ChrisO/Ancient Persian problems (it's a work in progress, as I'm still going through the contributions). Please feel free to add to it and leave any comments at User talk:ChrisO/Ancient Persian problems. I would be interested in any feedback that you might have. Thanks in advance. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:07, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Census Bureau geographic changes since 2000

Please see here and undo all your reverts. Thanks. --Polaron | Talk 01:10, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


What on earth is the point of three sets of coordinates for the same town in the same article? It goes against all logic and commonsense to triplicate information like this. Please be so good as to argue your point at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates#Coordinates in US cities articles: where to display or suggest an alternative venue for a public conversation. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

RE: Coords

Sorry about that. I ran a test run because it was requested here. I was not aware that there had been any discussions. --Andrew Kelly (talk) 05:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

geneva college coaches

Just an update: User:Paulmcdonald/deletedcoach#Geneva College shows a list of the work I've been doing restoring the mass-deletion of coaches for Geneva. We have six of them back already! Is there any way you can swing by the college library and get some old yearbooks to find out more about the other coaches that remain? They might say things like "previously coached at ..." or "played for ..." or give their full name, even where they got their degrees. It would help bunches!--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:53, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

West Paterson to Woodland Park

See Talk:Woodland Park, New Jersey for an update. Alansohn (talk) 20:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Help please!

Dude, I was blocked for "Sockpuppetting" or whatever they call it. I only have ONE ACCOUNT and I used it mostly to update the page of my hometown (a page you edit alot as well I see) of Butte, Montana and surrounding areas.

Alison claimed "Checkuser" is saying I'm someone named Dereks1x and banned me. If that was the case seeing all the "sock puppetts" he has...Do you think I'd care? I'd create another one and start over. Why would I be fighting, uh....I'll post a pic holding a sign saying "I'm not a sock" with my drivers liscense if needed.

My user name was "Seattlehawk94"...I you look at my edits they are only on certain topics and they mostly involve Southwest Montana and my birthplace of Butte. Can you help me? Look at my edits, that Alison person banned me for being a "Dereks1s sock" only after I asked for a checkuser on another one of his. Either she is him and wants to ban me for calling him out, she's a friend of his, or she's just a cliqueish type typical Wikiperson who get's off on too much power. (look at what she write's on Encloypedia Dramatica and you'll see all three could be the case)

Like I said...I'm a sock of no one....I know some people have some "I'm smarter than you" kinda attitude around here but...Seriously..."Sock Puppets" aren't stupid, they cover their tracks (Why would I ask for a Checkuser on an alt account coming from the same IP?) and they don't ask for help---they create new accounts----I'm innocent...And this is total bs...The "I'm smarter than you" crowd isn't that smart...Socks are illegal and people doing illegal stuff let it go, I'm not doing anything wrong and I was banned for bs with NO PROOF just "You are a sock"...Well...No I'm not, and the only evidence is someone saying "You are a sock"....That's royal bs....Hell, if that's all it takes to get someone they don't like banned then....I guess anyone here could suffer the same fate, it's like a freaking witch hunt. I've never dealt with this "Alison" thing before it banned me so....I dunno what the deal is.

People make comments all over the internet for this power trip "game" from what I've seen..It seems that the "admins" are all about racking up numbers in this RPG (well, some of them think it's an RPG) by reverting and banning people who actually want to put in CONSTRUCTIVE things about topics that aren't well known...I just want to edit the Butte page because I'm proud of my hometown. I report a past vandal over there get banned myself for it----total bs...Didn't do a damn thing wrong.

Any help would be helpful.....My IP address is right here....So....-- (talk) 11:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

So I take it she's not going to even address it? She's over on Dramaitica laughing about it..Going as far as to admit she was wrong and "pwnd" me twice in the same day. If she's not going to address what can I do? I'm blocked from even using my user page.-- (talk) 17:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for your help man! Allison checked further into the case and proved what I've been trying to say all along.....That I'm just this screenname and ONLY this screenname.

Thanks for helping and giving an outsiders to the issues view.....Really nice to have my name cleared!!!!!

Thanks again man!--seattlehawk94 (talk) 17:03, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review for Image:Barack-obama-mother.jpg

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Image:Barack-obama-mother.jpg. Since you were interested in the discussion, you might want to participate in the deletion review. (talk) 14:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Venue change

Just FYI I moved your question to WP:AN#Checkuser, I think that's a better venue for it. –xeno (talk) 19:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Glenrio map

I used the scan of the Glenrio quadrangle that was done by the Los Alamos search and rescue team, Index. --Bejnar (talk) 20:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


I was trying to help by keeping a single set of Coords on those pages, and adding extra information (stuff that may be used in the future.) If you don't want me doing so, just say so. Just be aware that some of them are inaccurate or broken. --smadge1 (talk) 21:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, I'd be willing to take part in any discussions about keeping only one set of coords for articles such as these. It seems crazy to have 3 sets per article.
In my area, we put a single coord in the location box, and it displays inline and in the title. no point referencing it elsewhere.
The name= parameter defaults to the page name, but it should be used if there are different coords listed on a page (eg attractions/landmarks/waterbodies/mountains etc). Using the format=dms, the geohack tool will convert and display the decimal coordinates to DMS, it seems there was an issue in the past with conversions (ie, you can't have 60 or more minutes or seconds). and I think legobot went around converting coor to coord, but missed the "city" to "type:city" as required by the coord template.
didn't mean to ramble on, you probably already know all this, I'd just like the whole process streamlined and simplified, especially for the future. --smadge1 (talk) 22:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

proposed deletion

Please advise on the guidelines for listing our corporation in wikipedia. I see many other companies listed.

if you think i am advertising... please give me the guidelines for moving forward. i did not place links back to my site... just want people to know who we are and what we do.

I365 (talk) 16:56, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

i think i get it

let me try again. I do work for the compnay and have many references. How can i have this reviewed before uploading? should i let wikipedia create for me? i really am trying to follow the guidelines.

I365 (talk) 17:15, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Cheers :o)

Every now and again I let off steam by doing a bit of editing on an article that will inevitably be deleted or I send a scathing message. It's good for the soul. bodnotbod (talk) 18:22, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Reliable Sources

I cited archival material and printed documents. Not quite sure what you want here. Not every scrap of historical data is accessible via a google search.

Michaelcuddyer (talk) 19:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Spurious Place Names in Albemarle County

Your suggestion that I "prove that [these places] don't exist" is completely illogical; it's impossible to prove a negative. I have looked up every one of these "places" in "Albemarle: Jefferson's County, 1727-1976," searched for many of them in Google Books, checked Albemarle County's official map, and been to the supposed location of every single one of them (over the course of my lifetime), and they do not exist, there is no evidence that they exist or that they have ever existed. There are no "sources [plural] to prove their existence," as you write, merely a single entry in GNIS, the origins of which I cannot imagine. The notion that a single GNIS entry trumps all other evidence makes no sense.

So now have Wikipedia entries for places that don't exist, and consequently will never have any information added them. But worse still, they clutter up the Albemarle County, Virginia footer template so much as to make it completely useless. There are many long-gone towns in Albemarle County with long and fascinating histories—Nixville, Proffit, Rockfish Gap, Petersburg, Cartersburg; only two of which are currently listed on Wikipedia, BTW—but nobody will ever find those amidst the clutter of 100+ places that do not now and have never existed.

Keep the entries; I don't care. But including them in the footer template is worse than useless. --WaldoJ (talk) 20:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Again, I am checking the single most authoritative source of Albemarle County's history to find any record that these places once existed, and there is simply no record of most of them, while many of the most prominent historical towns in Albemarle County are not listed in GNIS; this database clearly has significant flaws in its records for Albemarle County.
You said that the burden is on me to "prove that they don't exist." I'd like very much to put in whatever work is necessary to accomplish that, so as to remove this chaff from the Albemarle County template. So please, tell me—what method of proving this would pass muster with you? --WaldoJ (talk) 23:12, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
So in writing that I should "prove that they don't exist," what you really meant was that it doesn't matter what evidence that I come up with, because GNIS is final. If I may offer a suggestion, you could probably save a lot of time in the future by simply declaring that up front. FWIW, I think that just about all of these fail WP:GNG—they clearly don't pass the "significant coverage" test —but that's a different matter that I don't intend to pursue. --WaldoJ (talk) 01:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
And again, you've made the point is that Wikipedia will only accept the GNIS data as evidence as to whether or not a given place in the United States exists, no matter what other evidence exists. My point is that if that is the case, it ought to be documented somewhere, because right now, there's no way that anybody could know that. --WaldoJ (talk) 04:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
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Hello, Nyttend. You have new messages at Raven1977's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

your assistance please...

You deleted Dhiab v. Bush as an "implausible redirect" a few months ago. Could you please tell me where it used to redirect?

Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 07:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 07:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


Concerning your continued edits concerning population, please note that your edits and summaries are not correct. As you have been previously informed the Portland State Data is official in Oregon (as previously mentioned they are also partners with the Bureau). And since these cities exist at the discretion of the state as municipal corporations chartered by the state or otherwise created under the laws of the state, the official Oregon data is, official. If you would like further links to the official nature of these estimates and how the State of Oregon uses the data in official capacities I can provide you more links. Next, the 2000 Census is not "the actual count", it to uses Imputation to determine the count, thus it is an estimate as well. Additionally, the censuses have long been attacked as inaccurate (page 4) due to problems with over and under counting (or in other cases what they do and do not count, see Utah's fight for an additional House seat). Also, take Sheridan, Oregon for example where the Bureau screwed up and placed the population of the federal prison in the wrong census tract (they basically had about 2000 people living in an empty field). And this is not the only mistake. So here, where there are two sources that qualify as official, as WP:RS, and as estimates, both should exist, and neither should be labeled as "unofficial". Aboutmovies (talk) 07:50, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Gallo's Egg

Seems sensible, I've protected the redirect to prevent recreation. Tim Vickers (talk) 16:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Tim Jenison / notable natives in Belmond Iowa.

you deleted Tim Jenison from the notable natives for the Belmond Iowa page. in the notable people link you provided, it lists these criteria:

   * The person has received a notable award or honor, or has been often nominated for them.
   * The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field.

Tim Jenison won an Emmy award in 1993 and in 2003:

and the Wikipedia page for Newtek seems to backup the second criterion: The company was founded in 1985 in Kansas, U.S., by Tim Jenison, a pioneer of desktop video. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boojix (talkcontribs) 17:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Doylestown, Ohio

It appears that my history contribution remained as I was not the editor of the copious statistics. Thank you for the need for references. I have tracked more down and maybe you could take a look. Thanks, Checkpoint one four (talk) 22:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Mckey Sullivan

Can you restore the page Brittany "McKey" Sullivan? She just won Top Model, which means she meets the notability guidelines now (she didn't at the time of deletion). She needs to have a page now to include her in the Top Model wiki project.Rebochan (talk) 02:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Ildikó Újlaky-Rejtő

That would be really surprising if someone is looking after her as Uslaky. I don't think it's a misspelling, it's rather an mistyping. In Hungarian Újlaky and Úslaky do not even sound similar. :-) Cassandro (talk) 00:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

And the most proper form would be Ildikó Rejtő. Cassandro (talk) 00:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Baldwin County, Alabama template

I see you did extensive work on this template. I'm not sure you would know this but where did the names for the unincorporated areas come from? There is at least one, Park City, which I cannot find a reference for. I live in the county and am trying to create stubs for each of the red links in the template. It doesn't show on the US Census site as a CDP, town city or otherwise. I think it is a former name of what is today called Daphne. Any help you could offer would be appreciated. JodyB talk 03:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


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Bennington, Vermont

Hi, you're welcome. I personally don't see anything in the EL guidelines that would exclude the link to an important arts festival in the town; in fact if anything the guidelines support the addition, as I read and understand them. Softlavender (talk) 02:13, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi -- it's not an online discussion forum / message board, which is what the guidelines are talking about [Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), chat or discussion forums/groups (such as Yahoo! Groups), USENET newsgroups or e-mail lists]. It's a Chamber Music Festival, which also comprises an in-person Composer-in-Residence progam to which composers come to either teach, compose, or learn. Softlavender (talk) 02:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi -- Just to clarify: It is not in any way a forum as defined by the Wiki guidelines. It is meaningful and relevant to anyone who lives in, moves to, or is considering visiting Bemmington. It is not promotional of a product or website, and it is not spam. It relates directly to Benningtom because it is an arts festival in Bennington. Softlavender (talk) 03:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Template:Frederick County, Virginia‎

But the Newtown-Stephensburg Historic District is located in Frederick County, Virginia and does take up a large portion of Stephens City, Virginia...also located in Frederick County. Wouldn't that be something that would be listed on the template for the county? - NeutralHomerTalk • December 1, 2008 @ 06:41

Ah, I didn't know how those templates work. I kinda new to the whole process. I would create a template for NRHP, but it might only be two, Newtown-Stephensburg Historic District and Cedar Creek and Belle Grove National Historical Park. I am not sure if only two would suffice a template, but I could always give it a shot :) Thanks for your help. Take Care...NeutralHomerTalk • December 1, 2008 @ 18:25

Gang Activity Ashville ohio

I live in ashville i think i know what happens in my town

Categorizing villages, towns

Before I knew better, I categorized all towns into the county category automaticlly. Later realized that most towns and villages will have their own categories which will be in the higher level cat. So they didn't need to be in the higher level cat as an article themselves. Started to remove these in Orleans County, Vermont area and was reverted by you. I was doing this gradually so hadn't gotten around to them all. Will fix state level for villages later if that is okay. Student7 (talk) 14:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I thought I understood it. You and I are probably the experts on Vermont organization. Let me see if I can stumble across one (or more) of the categorization specialists who seem to have thought this out and see what they think (they may not be geography specialists, however!). I understand what you are saying and did (out of naivety more than anything!) try to do this early on. I will wait until I get a "second opinion" before doing anything further and will try to get back with you before I do. Thanks.
So the idea was, I get to the county cat. I know there is "something" in the county and had hoped that the cat would trigger my memory. But the article isn't there because it is hidden in a town or even a village cat.
A bit different than categorizing Aeneas as a Greek and a Cypriot (or wherever). I'm not necessarily looking at "Ancient Greeks" to trigger my memory since there are way too many of them. Pages after page of articles at the high level (getting to Zeno could take awhile!). Might as well be under "Cypriots" even though I don't necessarily remember where he was from. A bit different from a town article maybe. (Just trying to think this out loud). Student7 (talk) 23:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
It's not that I'm arguing. I just though I understood it before. I do see your point. Category:Brownington, Vermont[3] may be one of the better ones but most towns and certainly few villages have that many members. In my previous example, it would be better to put Zeno and Aeneas in "Ancient Greeks" and not just under "Ancient Cypriots." How many people know where they lived off the top of their heads? Well, I guess I'll go for overcategorization until someone else whacks my knuckles for that! Student7 (talk) 18:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


Is there an appropriate way to incorporate reservations into the county template where they are present? They are legal government-designated places, although I can not find information about how the census formally treats them, aside from them being able to serve as boundaries to CDPs. • Freechild'sup? 16:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Its not really a confusing comparison, and think I see where you're heading with it. However, the Census does acknowledge reservations; I just can't place why. Their must be some US Census measurements of reservation populations, specifically... I'll keep scouring and get back to you. It just seems that these federally-designated places should be included on a template featuring government places. Surely you can appreciate that? • Freechild'sup? 17:22, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
This may provide some useful information under "American Indian/Alaska Native Area/Hawaiian Home Land (AIANA/HHL) Entities." I want to rely on you to make a determination here Nyttend, if only because you've created these templates for so many counties. I appreciate that hard work. But I also feel strongly about my previous point: As federally-designated, census-measured places reservations require a place on the county templates where they sit. An alternative to that would be to create a reservation-specific template for each reservation that would mention the state, county/ies, towns, schools, landmarks... well, maybe there's potential there. Anyway, let me know what you think. • Freechild'sup? 17:33, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Wondering if I could weigh in a little. Reservations are treated separately from other political subdivisions, and exist primarily due to treaties. More importantly, Indian reservations are not considered part of any county. For example, Cheyenne River Indian Reservation in South Dakota includes Ziebach and Dewey Counties, but there are separate county governments. The Standing Rock Indian Reservation is in two states. Asseparate, sovereign political entities they are more equal in nature to the individual U.S. states than anything else. Implying a reservation is subordinate to a county would be offensive to many American Indians. From a geographic standpoint, you could expand the templates to provide links to nearby reservations, but it should be done in a manner that does not imply the reservation is "part of the county." A reservation template based off the county templates would be a good alternative. Cross posting this on Nyttend's page as well.DCmacnut<> 21:31, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Sorry. My comments were originally directed at Freechild, and I just copied and pasted the identical comments to your page to get your opinion. I guess I'm just nitpicking based on my work in tribal and indian policy. My point was exactly what you said, that reservations are "within" counties only from a geographic location standpoint. I'm more used to larger western reservations whose boundaries coincide with entire counties. Since the templates are mainly a group of "see also" geographic links, it makes sense. I'm just worried about how it would be displayed. The current "city, township, CDP, unincorporated community" hierarchy doesn't seem to fit for me.
As far as Census looking at reservations, I don't think Census counting of reservations makes those reservations any more unique then those not counted. Some reservations like Lake Traverse Reservation in South Dakota don't have a defined boundary, and instead are an amalgamation of all tribally owned land. The Rosebud Indian Reservation has a boundary equal to Todd County, but there is tribal land in Tripp, Gregory, and Mellette Counties, which are also included in Census totals. The Yankton Indian Reservation no longer exists as an entity with defined boundaries, like Lake Traverse, but the Yankton Sioux Tribe is on equal footing with other tribes in South Dakota and the Census still counts the reservation. Eastern reservations can be difficult to categorize, due to the Trail of Tears and the systematic moving of Indians west of the Mississippi. A lot of the tribes are recently recognized by the federal government, too, making defining a reservation difficult.
As far as the Bad River Reservation and the Passamaquoddy Reservation, both are counted separately by the Census, per American Factfinder.DCmacnut<> 01:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

129.130.XX.XX is a shared IP range

Hi, I logged in to look up some things and noticed this. I just wanted to let you know that all 129.130.XX.XX addresses belong to Kansas State University, and are usually dynamically allocated. Though it's good to see someone added something that might be useful, instead of a bunch of swearing. - around 3 in the afternoon on December 1, 2008

Template:Rensselaer County, New York

I added Speigletown to the template, and created the stub, if you do not mind. Bearian (talk) 22:58, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Granger, Wyoming

Just a quick FYI, Template:Mapit-US-cityscale does say that the template is deprecated (I guess I learn something new every day). I'm going to remove it from Granger, Wyoming and as I find it in other articles and replace it with {{coord}} if needed. I'm not sure what the standard is on listing both the H-M-S and decimal value for the latitude and longitude, so I'll leave that in the Granger article and let it play out. Have a good day. CosmicPenguin (Talk) 15:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you- changes-

Many thanks for reverting the changes by about census-designated places in Wisconsin. I did manage to revert changes this editor did in the various Wisconsin counties article. I do not think this will be the end of it-Thanks-RFD (talk) 19:08, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Some anon editor made some changes in the various Wisconsin census-designated places articles.You may want to take a look at them.You try telling people CDPs are more important then unincorporated communities at least in Wisconsin.It is not ones worthwhile to get into an edit war over the edits.I do know registration should be mandatory of all editors concerning Wikipedia.It gets frustrating dealing with anon editors who do not register with an accountant.My aplogies for being on my soapbox with that one.Hope you are well-Thank you-RFD (talk) 16:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Again many thanks-RFD (talk) 17:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
The anon editor has been following myself while I was editing:I left a messege for Dual Freq about the 1933 Wisconsin Milk Strike article and the anon editor also left a messege and I did some editing on the Bishop Loras Watters article and the same anon editor made some minor changes.This individual sure gets around.Thanks-RFD (talk) 23:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Get this!The anon editor went to User:Bkonrad and accused us of trashing some articles the CDPs!THanks-RFD (talk) 23:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

PS-The Middle Village, Wisconsin article was the one the anon editor mentioned to Bkonrad-RFD (talk) 00:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Iowa SOS template name fix

I think I have made that error a few times myself, so I knew what was going on when I hit the edit button. It was easy to do and necessary for the new category I wanted to add.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Templates for over 100k cities

You've probably noticed an editor inserting templates for cities of over 100k. For starters, I don't find these useful. I'm not going to rain on his parade however! I am a bit dismayed that he included "mayors" with the cities.

Mayors require maintenance, which seems silly to me, but okay. Him not me. No big deal. But most people are not that intensely interested in who the mayor is. Nor do they want to navigate between cities using mayors as a criterion.

But my main complaint is that mayors, per se, should not be exemplified in an article about a city. In an article about Cleveland, why should we be listing the mayor of Toledo?

I would appreciate your thoughts.Student7 (talk) 15:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. I just assumed that you had already seen them. The editor TonytheTiger originally suggested discussing it on the WP:CITIES page so I put an attack there! But then may have since changed his mind. Anyway, there is a starter thread on the Cities discussion page if you are interested. If not, that's okay too. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 16:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
As an example, see bottom of Athens, Georgia.Student7 (talk) 16:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Explanation of the word "attack": After saying that I wouldn't rain on anyone's parade (above), I proceeded to try to demolish the whole idea of the template. Little change of face, that.  :( Student7 (talk) 17:34, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
My original remarks, which were brilliant, profound and extremely convincing, got lost in the ether somewhere....Student7 (talk) 18:16, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


Hi. I noticed you reverted a couple of my edits to US settlement articles stating that the coords are 'standard for US communities.' While it is mentioned in the somewhat dated cities guideline, I'm unaware of any consensus on the need for this. For one, the Mapit template, which used to print a number of Google Maps type links, has been deprecated in favor of coord which is already in the geography section. And the decimal repetition of the coords is redundant, as they simply repeat the same information as the DMS format, and can be obtained by clicking on the coordinates (among many other options). Anyways, I was wondering why you felt it necessary to revert these edits. Thanks. --skew-t (talk) 03:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The city layout guideline seems to call for the geolinks template which has also been deprecated. It's my understanding the two templates were deprecated because they were duplicating a subset of the functionality of the links provided by GeoHack (the page that comes up when coord templates are clicked). In their current state both geolinks and mapit do not produce any greater output than that from coord so I'm not sure why WP Cities would recommend essentially identical links in both the geography section and the external links (not to mention infobox and title). I'm unaware of any other templates designed for coordinates in external link sections. --skew-t (talk) 04:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


You state:

Please don't add Category:Unincorporated communities in Wisconsin to CDP articles: the category is meant for unincorporated communities other than CDPs.

According to whom? King Nyttend?

Please stop removing the CDP distinction: it is important, and it is against consensus.

That consensus would be expressed where? Inside your head?

Your knowledge of CDPs is marginal, at best. ALL CDPs are unincorporated communities, by definition. That's why the Census Bureau has resorted to designating them as "places" for statistical purposes-- because they aren't really places; they're unincorporated areas. See: Unincorporated area.

Check out the categories on these pages: Dixonville, Pennsylvania; Shiloh, York County, Pennsylvania; White City, Oregon; Dundalk, Maryland; Altadena, California. You might also be interested in the Middle Village, Wisconsin article, which was not written by me. Those are only examples; there are hundreds more just like them in WP. They don't seem to agree with your "consensus." (talk) 17:53, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

In Wisconsin CDP is not equal to unincorporated community. There's a very elegant easy solution to this discussion: create a category for Wisconsin CDPs! Royalbroil 16:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I was the one who was confused. If there is a category for Wisconsin CDPs, then they should all be in that category. Anyone who would remove a Wisconsin CDP article that category would be disruptive. The only thing that that is able to be discussed is whether or not the entire category should be a subcategory under Wisconsin unincorporated communities. Royalbroil 19:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Since my name has been mentioned in this, first I want to say that some edits by IP users (I'm not sure if there are one or two), have been very disrespectful. However, does make a reasonable point below. A CDP is nothing more than a statistical abstraction that in many cases happens to correspond to the name of a community. IMO, it would be incorrect to categorize all CDPs as unincorporated communities as that would stretch the meaning of community to the point of being so nebulous as to have no definitional value. Those communities that are both a CDP and a recognizable community should be categorized as both. Those CDPs that are purely statistical constructs shouldn't be categorized as communities. olderwiser 20:05, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
According to the Census Bureau's announcement in the Federal Register, "This Notice announces the Bureau of the Census' (Census Bureau's) final criteria for defining census designated places (CDPs) for the 2010 Census. CDPs are statistical geographic entities representing closely settled, unincorporated communities that are locally recognized and identified by name." --from the Federal Register, February 13, 2008 (Volume 73, Number 30), emphasis added. The Federal Register is the official forum for publishing federal government rules and regulations. Wikipedia is not. The Federal Register further states: 'CDPs were referred to as "unincorporated places" from 1950 through the 1970 decennial censuses.' With only a few exceptions, all CDPs are unincorporated places. Their boundaries, and even their names, change with every decennial census, at the whim of the Census Bureau. In the 2000 census, there were some CDPs with 0 population. Note also that CDPs are statistical entities, not physical or governmental. That is, they are simply a means of enumerating population in an area. They have absolutely no status beyond that. Census Bureau definition: "Statistical geographic entity--A geographic entity that is specially defined and delineated, such as block group, CDP, or census tract, so that the Census Bureau may tabulate data for it. Designation as a statistical entity neither conveys nor confers legal ownership, entitlement, or jurisdictional authority." -- Federal Register
Wikipedia gets a bad reputation because of its uninformed articles. The CDP issue is a perfect example of this, as well as of not letting the facts interfere with opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not|

I don't know why you think I'm|, but I'm not, so please don't treat us as if we were the same editor. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for dealing the situation which had an unfortunate ending. We have better things to do with our time than dealing with someone with an ax to grind who is attacking other editors. I wasn't aware of the entire multiple IP situation when I scaled back from WP:UTM level 3 to 1. Royalbroil 15:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


Hi! I don't know how much of a difference it makes "going up against" an administrator :), but I'd like to go on record for opposing your decision to revert Wenham in Essex County, removing references to Wenham in Plymouth County. I'm not making a play at belligerence, of course, but I think the logic used in your edit summary was specious. I wouldn't necessarily make Plymouth, Mass. a disambiguation page (unless there was consensus to do so) because Plymouth is famous and very well-known, but I'd argue that while Wenham village in Carver is lesser known, neither the town nor the village is so well known that it improves Wikipedia to delete the disambiguation entirely. I certainly have no personal attachment to either, but my original intent was to improve the encyclopedia's coverage. I've said my peace, unless there is some official recourse that you'd recommend I pursue. I assume it would be in Wikipedia's best interest to establish consensus on the matter, but I'm not nearly experienced enough to know for sure. Let me know if you think I make any sense, and take care! --Aepoutre (talk) 22:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Interesting! Thanks for the lesson, haha. I'm still slightly confused, but I'll ask a few questions to which the answers might help me understand better: 1) Would an otheruses tag at the top of the Essex County article be in order? 2) Would there be a use for a Wenham (disambiguation) or something similar? I think I was most concerned because I'd want people to know about the Wenham in Plymouth County, but the revert didn't seem to create an avenue for that. I have to admit, I was a bit worried that there might be some POV issues pertaining to the importance of the Essex County Wenham over the other on your part, but I must remind myself to assume good faith :).
As for your question: if you search "Wenham" in Google or Google Maps, you usually come up with Essex County, but if you're already looking at the Plymouth area and then search "Wenham" in Google Maps, you get the village in Plymouth County. That's how I originally found it, and then uncovered more random info. when I Googled "Wenham Plymouth County" on the Web. The mention in Carver, Massachusetts#History is because, during my "Wenham Plymouth County" search, I found a PDF the town of Carver had made that outlined its history, and used that as a source to beef up the section a bit. I'm not from Plymouth County at all, so I can't quite answer your question directly, but I left a message requesting input from a more established resident of Massachusetts who's helped me out on quite a few articles. Perhaps he can shed some more light on the topic. It seems used, at least by Google Maps, but a lot of the "Wenham Plymouth County" web search turns up the local pond (Wenham Pond) and cemetery (Wenham Cemetery), the latter of which seems to be considered some sort of historical site. I know that New England place names can switch around, fall in and out of use, and become entirely misappropriated at times. Right now, I'm researching history on Mount Wollaston, and boy, is that a confusing one.
Hope I didn't sound like a bastard. I know that I have that tendency, and I try to curb it, but it's very much part of my natural tone for some reason. Look forward to hearing back from you. --Aepoutre (talk) 01:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


Hi, I think the page needs to be changed back to Pryor per no one at all uses "Pryor Creek". Not even the city or state government. I informed users on the talk page and no one said anything against it. New York City uses its unifical name "New York City (officially The City of New York)" because everyone knows and uses New York City just like people uses Pryor not Pryor Creek.--CPacker talk to me 05:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


This just demonstrates your pure vindictiveness. WP talk page guidelines clearly state: "Users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages, though archiving is preferred. They may also remove some content in archiving. The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user. This specifically includes both registered and anonymous users." Get over it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Any objective person would say that advocating some level of competence for editing Wikipedia is not a personal attack. In fact, it's been a long debate among both Wikipedians and critics of WP. How do you expect anyone to have any respect for WP if its crude, sloppy language makes it unintelligible? But in WP-Land any 20-year-old who is still wet behind the ears can call something an attack and get away with it. When you ask for advice, then ignore it when it isn't what you wanted to hear, it's obvious that something other than objectivity is involved in your decision making. Vonnegut was right.

"Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power."

Connolley believes that Wikipedia "gives no privilege to those who know what they’re talking about," a view that is echoed by many academics and former contributors, including Larry Sanger, who argues that too many Wikipedians are fundamentally suspicious of experts and unjustly confident of their own opinions ... "Wikipedia has gone from a nearly perfect anarchy to an anarchy with gang rule," he told me.

— Stacy Schiff, "Know It All: Can Wikipedia conquer expertise?" The New Yorker, July 31, 2006

A short leave of absence-

Hi Nyttend- I will be taking a short leave of absence do to this anon editor.This editor left a message on my talk page questioning what I do-I mention 2 article of 2 Roman catholic c Bishops I started: Ernest Kombo and Alessandro Maggiolini and now this editor is changing the wording.With Bishop Kombo I wrote that he was ordained a Roman catholic priest for the Jesuits this anon editor changed it to Kombo being ordained a Jesuit priest of which is not accurate.This anon editor does not like me for some reason and because of some ongoing health problems I do not needed the added stress.Thank you for all you do-RFD (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


You really shouldn't believe everything you find on Google. I changed Ashton Corners to Ashton because that's its name. There really aren't two places, just one. There may be an Ashton Corners on some antique map at the USGS, but no one in that area refers to the hamlet as "Ashton Corners." Google "St. Peter's Ashton," for example, and you'll see that the school and church refer to themselves as located in Ashton. I was actually stunned to see Ashton referred to in WP as "Ashton Corners." I asked my aunt, who was born in Ashton, if she'd ever heard it referred to as "Ashton Corners," and she said never in all her 90 years had she ever heard it called that. This is confirmed by the Dane County Department of Planning and Development. See Unincorporated Hamlets of Dane County, Wisconsin, for example. Also check the state's official Dane County map. You'll find an Ashton there, but no Ashton Corners. Stop reverting perfectly good edits you know absolutely nothing about. (talk) 21:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Dane County map
There are maps like that for all Wisconsin counties at the Wisconsin DOT. (talk) 23:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Little community advice & another question

Hi. You had it right when you said that this Ashton/Ashton Corners situation was confusing! After looking at your links, reading the comments left on the Ashton Corners Talk Page and viewing this map, it is my opinion that Ashton and Ashton Corners should be treated as separate communities with the caveat that there should be some type of notation placed on the page that refers to the other community. For example on a newly-created Ashton page, maybe a simple note at the top saying "Ashton should not be confused with the nearby community of Ashton Corners" and visa-versa.

Before I go, I wanted to ask you about a situation on one of the pages I created and watch since you are an Administrator. On the Lovejoy Independent School District page, there has been a continuous edit war going back and forth (between anonymous IPs) for quite a while now. The issue is that under the External Links section two links were posted. The first is the official school district web site [4], the second is an unofficial site [5] that contains district information, but also features critical commentary of some of the districts policies and actions. What has been happening is that someone will edit the page and remove one of the links or vandalize the page altogether. On November 25, I tried to stop this by cleaning up the page, adding references from only the official site, and restoring some of the factual information that had been deleted in an attempt to stop the edit war. It didn't work. I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex where this district is located and it is a property-wealthy, high performing, and highly desirable school district in this area, but the childish behavior of a few who have continuously disrupted this Wikipedia page really needs to end. I was wondering if I can get the page protected for a while. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --Acntx (talk) 15:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

To my knowledge, the practice of appending "Corners" to a place name is common (at least in the Northeast) when a major highway does not go directly through the center of a community. Map makers often label these highway junctions on a map to facilitate long distance travelers and are usually not separate settlements. So, my opinion would be to have the main article at Ashton and discuss Ashton Corners as part of that article. --Polaron | Talk 00:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I've driven past the intersection of County K and U.S. 12 dozens, perhaps hundreds, of times, and I've never noticed Ashton Corners. The community is located in Ashton, because that's where the church, school, and cemetery are. If there are a few houses at Ashton Corners, it really doesn't qualify as a community. (Blink and you've missed it.) So I'd have the main article be Ashton, with references to Ashton Corner. (talk) 00:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Bethel, VT residents

Then say she's a former resident. It's flat out wrong to describe her as a resident. She is neither a native to the town or a resident. She lived there for a couple of years. (talk) 15:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

WP:USCITY does not say you need to include former residents. "Provide a listing of any celebrities or famous individuals that were born in the city, or that might have taken up residence in the city..." (talk) 15:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
You said on my talk page that practice is to include non-residents if they once lived there. Should she be added to residents lists and sections for Westborough MA, Amherst MA, Seattle WA, Romania, Topsham VT, Bethel VT, and finally Randolph VT? She may well have lived in many more places too. Seems a bit much. A residents section should just be current residents and natives and even then should indicate which. Frankly, I'd be annoyed to have my residence being placed in wikipedia unless it was relevant. (talk) 16:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for asking Student7 to look at Bethel,VT. The change seems good, I just felt it silly to list as a resident someone who is not and was one only for a brief few years of their adulthood. Thanks for taking care of it. (talk) 22:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Lovejoy Independent School District

The Lovejoy Independent School District page has been locked. However this page was edited prior to being locked and contains references to which is not the official school website. Besides the constant changes to the lovejoyisd website the same users appear to be adding their website to the Lovejoy High School wiki page. I'm a parent in the community and have been correcting both the High School and ISD wiki pages frequently. Can the ISD page please be updated with the correct websites before it is locked again.

Thank you, Lovejoy Parent —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I am a parent and taxpayer in Lovejoy ISD as well. I believe in holding public school officials accountable for their spending and actions. The web site provides public documents that the district officials do not want the public to see. The school has attempted to censor and continues to remove the link from this wikipedia page. From this wikipedia page's inception the link to was there and co-existed with official district links, until this year. Someone, maybe "Lovejoy Parent", started to remove the link on a daily basis. There is a link to another "unofficial" site which is censored by the school district. "Lovejoy Parent" does not remove that link.

Lovejoy ISD is in Collin County, and before the mortgage meltdown, was one of the fastest growing counties in the U.S. Developers and those with real estate interests have vested interest in representing a school district in it's best light in order to get top dollar for real estate interests and homes in the district. Real estate interests are not interested in protecting children, only selling homes. The picture they paint of the local school is not a complete and accurate one. Parents moving in the district need to know everything about the district before investing.

School officials have been given the opportunity to correct any information they deem incorrect on the lovejoy website and have never done so in the past six years. While the information, may not be flattering it is accurate, documented, relevant and important to parents who want to know everything that is going on in this district, rather than just what the district wants them to know. Please allow the link to stay.

Thank you, Freedom of Speech —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:53, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I would prefer you lock the page now, so Lovejoy ISD will not continue to delete the link to Why does Lovejoy ISD not want documented information available to the public?

Thank you, Freedom of Speech —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Your comments comparing extensive research and official documents to the color of tiles in the men's bathroom belittles the efforts of those attempting to hold public officials accountable, and also makes one question your objectivity on this subject.

I was surprised to see even the Lovejoy District page still locked with the link to the unofficial page removed. The unofficial site tracks administrative activities and official documents that Lovejoy ISD would prefer the public not see. If only "official" sites on a subject are allowed on Wikipedia, how does Wikipedia policy differ from the policies of the Chinese goverment? (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 12:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC).

I am another parent in the Lovejoy school district and I find it very hard to believe that anyone in the district would oppose the link to a website that only discusses Lovejoy schools and is parents only opportunity to see documents that a few brave parents dared to get through the freedom of information act. is packed with legal documents that came directly from Lovejoy ISD and from the Texas Attorney General. The entire purpose of wikipedia is to get information. Legal, unaltered documents that do not appear on any other website is pertinent information to the taxpayers and parents in the Lovejoy ISD school district. I think the ONLY people who would be opposed to this website are the school administration who are here posing as parents. I haven't met one parent who knows about who doesn't check it regularly to get real information. should definitely be added to the Lovejoy ISD page. Removing the link not only violates our freedom of speech, but it lessens wiki as a credible source of information.

A Real Lovejoy ParentLovejoy Parent (talk) 15:01, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Rose Point DYK

Hey Nyttend, I checked your nomination and everything looks fine on the technical side of things. I suggested some alternate hooks, though, and it would be helpful if you could take a look and make sure I haven't added any factual errors in them. The nomination is here. Thanks, —Politizer talk/contribs 06:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I verified the alt hook offerings. All is well there...and I hope you get well (sorry to hear about the medical Wikibreak). Ecoleetage (talk) 13:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

"Assburger" redirects

Hi there. I just declined a speedy on one of these because it previously survived an RFD, and is pending another one. I will say that the discussion is 100% in favor of deletion at this point, but it has only been open a day. I'm not even sure that I want you to do anything, I guess I just wanted to make you knew where I came from. If you want to delete the one I declined, I won't have a problem - I'm probably too much of a process wonk sometimes. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 02:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Rose Point, Pennsylvania

Updated DYK query On 14 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rose Point, Pennsylvania, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 03:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

My congratulations and best wishes on the DYK for Rose Point, Pennsylvania.I hope your medical leave goes well-my thoughts and prayers are with you-Thanks-RFD (talk) 11:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Auriesville, New York

Many thanks for fixing the Montgomery County, New York templete.It was getting frustrating. I came across the Auriesville, NY article in a round about way:Cardinal Avery Dulles will be buried in the Jesuit cemetery in Auriesville and I was curious about Auriesville.Hope things are going well-RFD (talk) 13:03, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks and get well soon

Thanks for the move on Oil City, Cambria County, Pennsylvania and hope you are soon feeling better. My thoughts and prayers are with you, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 14:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Best wishes for a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and a speedy recovery. If there is anything I can do (watch some articles, whatever), please let me know. Take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:40, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I was very happy to read in your blog that night when one of your parents posted that your operation had gone well. Have a speedy recovery! Royalbroil 04:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I thought it was funny - I do hope your recovery is "speedy" and that you "keep" on contributing here (sorry, it was the best I could do). Ruhrfisch ><>°° 17:23, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I checked several recent non-minor contribs and they all looked fine. Take it easy, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 21:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Durhamville, Tennessee

Hey, Nyttend! Thanks for looking over the new article and for the fixes. Have a merry Christmas! doxTxob \ talk 20:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for taking that stuff out of the article. I spent hours finding references for everything I contributed, but didn't want to go medival on the previous unreferenced text. Good to see someone else helping make things better. Steve Pastor (talk) 20:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


FYI, I'm a local so I know that ZIP code 97482 refers to the Lane County location of Thurston, Oregon, but I don't expect you to take my word for it. Search 97482 here for proof. Cheers. Katr67 (talk) 22:23, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Template:Bastrop County, Texas

Thanks for pluralizing Template:Bastrop County, Texas. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: DYK for Oatmeal, Texas

Thanks for the nice comments. By the way, Get well soon! --Acntx (talk) 12:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

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List of RHPs in KS

Nice work, again. Please notice that i've added concerns about NRIS coordinates for 2 sites in the KS overall list, and 1 site in each of 6 of the separated county lists. I mentioned the issues in the corresponding talk pages, and at wp:NRIS info issues. You can address the issues in the list-articles either by commenting out the bad coords, hopefully adding a note about it, or, better, by figuring out correct coords. There are some tips and links about getting coords in the draft wp:NRHPMOS manual. Let me know if i can help. doncram (talk) 04:49, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Got ur messages, good. About persons like Jeremiah Ensworth, I expect that the NRHP nomination document for the house would include a biography of the person, if the house is notable because of its association with the person. That is common in the NRHP docs. I work more on New York State and other areas, where the NRHP docs are available on-line. Unfortunately i don't know about Ohio making its ones available on-line. But you can request them, for free, to be sent "postally" from the NPS in Washington, D.C. I've been away from wikipedia for about 2 mos, am just catching up, am a bit rusty about how to do many things i used to know how to do, too. I was not aware of your being out sick, hope u have a full recovery. And Merry xmas to you! doncram (talk) 05:28, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh, i meant to say, it looks like Kansas has just about the usual rate of bad NRIS coordinates. Of course there could be other mislocated places that i wouldn't notice, while u might. Actually in some other areas i estimated it was about 1% of them have incorrect coordinates. The great thing is, there are 99% with approximately correct coordinates, which is great! The maps of all coordinates are really helpful, i think. :) doncram (talk) 05:39, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Just did a little spot-checking, wondering if I could verify that you captured differences between manual lists in place, vs. Elkman-table-generated new lists (which I believe do not include recent listings and, in some relatively rare cases also some old listings that were accurately included in the list beforehand but are not included in Elkman's tables). In general i worry a bit about whether others putting in county tables check whether the new tables capture everything, for sure, that was correctly included in previous county lists. It is also possible that there were incorrectly included items in the previous lists, but the incorrectness needs to be verified in some other way besides noting a site is not included in Elkman's generator before the item is dropped, in my view. Question 1: can you comment on how you addressed these possible situations?
I verified that your lists do include all 5 or 6 of some recent Kansas listings. E.g., you got KANSAS, BROWN COUNTY, Graham, Seward, House, 115 Miami St., Hiawatha, 08001172, LISTED, 12/11/08 and 3 others in the same week's new listings added properly, and similarly u got 1 or 2 other recent listings that i checked. Small quibble: for that one you added it as Steward Graham rather than Seward Graham. Question 2: how did you get the coordinates, is there some new way or did you look up coordinates off Google maps for the given street address and put it in yourself? I'd mainly like to learn if there is some new way to get these. Thanks! doncram (talk) 09:36, 26 December 2008 (UTC) p.s. I'll watch here in case you want to reply here.
Thanks for ur reply to my talk page, which is fine. Happy to hear about ur process, which sounds meticulous and should not have lost any info, sounds great, u are doing what Sanfranman59 and i have done in some other states, except u r better about adding coords for new listings where i have mostly not been doing that. Thanks for explaining/verifying. It is indeed painstaking work to transform a whole state's info over like this. I fixed dtbohrer's Steward -> Seward, too. I have no better way to get coords. Elkman got coords from NRIS directly in a download that NRIS occasionally makes available to programmers (we/the public cannot access individual coords from NRIS because they offer no suitable user interface). NRIS or Elkman implemented a merger, which in some rare cases mismatches coords for one place to another same-named place. There remain some mysteries: there are some discrepancies between Elkman tables and the corresponding county lists (which are also based on same type of download from NRIS, just done by another private programmer); some of these relatively few discrepancies relate to sites that were NRHP-listed but got delisted. Unless it has changed recently, Elkman's system (like the system) is not fully explicit/transparent about such cases and the 2 systems process them differently. Elkman's may be "better", omitting listings htat appear in NRHP.COM (and perhaps hence in the old wikipedia lists) which were delisted and are not properly NRHPs now, but i still would want to capture and report those as formerly NRHP-listed properties, in a second table below the current county listings. For the few discrepancies i notice, I report known delistings and also mystery/research-needed cases that way in the county articles. Thanks! doncram (talk) 18:05, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Candy Cane Lane Panorama.jpg <font=3> Merry Christmas and all the best for the New Year! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 06:18, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


My aim was not to spam the article. Wanted to just describe my experience at the resort. I am not associated with them. Happy holidays. More random musing (talk) 10:32, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


Hi Nyttend- the Swedesburg church is on the northwest corner of 140th and James. I think it is on the NRHP. As for NRHP sites in Iowa, I have been collecting photos of small town Iowa for the past 2 years (after doing this job for six), and only a tiny portion actually make it to Wikipedia. I've been burning CDs of my photos and giving them to the State Historical Society (for most towns of Iowa they have no photos), but they don't seem to have any idea what to do with them, and I think they just sit in a drawer somewhere. I'd be happy to send them to you, my personal contact information is on my user page. I don't have the time or patitence to figure out which are on the NRHP, but if you do.... Billwhittaker (talk) 16:27, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and have a Barnstar, since you do more Iowa edits from Ohio than most Iowans (move this award to where you want):

Iowabarnstar.PNG The Iowa Barnstar
For your outstanding contributions to Iowa-related articles, I hereby award you the Iowa Barnstar. Billwhittaker (talk) 20:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the good information about the benifits of Wikimedia. I will put that on my list of things to eventually do. One reservation is that I tend to take commando-style photos; I drive into a small town in Iowa, take a bunch of photos of the old part of town, hop in and drive off. If I had to keep a detailed photo log I would not be able to do this, since I am using my break time from work. Therefore, for most of them I have only the foggiest idea of what intersection I am at. Billwhittaker (talk) 18:43, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Southworth House

Noticed ur Southworth House DYK nom. Looks nice. Last footnote asserts photo in infobox is from a stated source (which sounded non-public domain to me), but then photo is your own. Does that footnote need updating? U r busy.... doncram (talk) 19:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Scammon, Kansas

I added an additional fact to the article. My father was born in Scammon in 1920 and my great grandfather who was a steam engineer in the mines is said to have known one of the younger Scammon brothers. Apparently they worked in the same coal mine at one time or another. Thanks for your help, your wording was less awkward. Cuprum17 (talk) 00:05, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places in Alabama category

Hey, thanks for taking the time to clean-up the National Register of Historic Places in Alabama category. It's needed it for a long time. We probably need a new category for churches too.Altairisfartalk 02:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I was just looking at it, since the Registered Historic Places of religious function category is HUGE!

Southworth House (Cleveland, Ohio)

Symbol support vote.svg

Congratulations on the recent promotion of Southworth House to Good Article status!

GA Review

Article (edit | edit beta | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

The article meets Good Article criteria for the following reasons:

  • Per WP:V, the article has reliable sources.
  • Per WP:NPOV, the article's prose is presented from a neutral point of view.
  • Clearly written, in good prose with correct spelling and grammar.

I would, however, suggest that more images be added to the article. Keep in mind:

  1. (a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
    (b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.[1]

Great job improving the article thus far; we need more "short" articles such as this. Congratulations. United Statesman (talk) 00:19, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

  1. ^ The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement for Good articles. However, if images (including other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.


Hi. I can't make any promises, and I'm not much of a photographer, but I'll try to get some pictures of the house if I have an opportunity. At the very least, it will have to wait until the weather is a tad less hostile. - Eureka Lott 22:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Use of Convert template in Otero County, New Mexico

You reverted a change I made to Otero County, New Mexico on the ground that Template:Convert gives different results than the values that were there. It's true that the template gave different values in some cases, but that's because the old values were incorrect. For example, the one you mentioned, total area in Geography:

  • Given value is 6,627 sq mi (from reference 1, Find a County)
  • Conversion factor comes from NIST: 1 sq mi = 2.589 988 110 336 sq km
  • So 6,627 sq mi = 6627 * 2.589 988 110 336 sq km = 17163.85048 sq km to 10 digits, round to 17164 km.

Therefore the correct km figure is 17164 as Convert reports, not 17165 as the previous (and now current) texts show.

Do you agree? If so please undo your revert. Thanks. --Uncia (talk) 15:40, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Lake Fish Hatchery Historic District

Greetings NYT ... are you confident that the Lake Fish Hatchery Historic District is in Park County, WY rather than Teton County? According to Google Earth, the geocode coordinates from the NPS database are in Teton County although they're near to Park County line. Just wondering. --sanfranman59 (talk) 16:56, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply ... It's probably best not to rely on as it is not an "official" NRHP website. The National Park Service NRIS database has that site listed in Teton County. I've found a good number of discrepancies between the private site and the NPS site. For one thing, the former is out of date and also often lists sites that have only been nominated and not necessarily yet officially listed on the register. --sanfranman59 (talk) 17:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
It's certainly possible that the district includes contributing properties that are in both counties, but it's been my experience that if a site spans across county lines, the NPS database (and thus Elkman's county table generator) lists it in all of the counties. IMHO, it's best to use the information that comes from the official source unless there's pretty solid evidence that it's incorrect. --sanfranman59 (talk) 17:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I hope I haven't come across in my messages as more of an authority than I am (which is basically not at all!). Your judgment is certainly as good as or better than mine. I've used the Elkman tool to generate a ton of county/city tables and have found it to accurately reflect the NPS NRIS database. Have you come across instances where the Elkman tool produces information that is discrepant with what's listed at --sanfranman59 (talk) 18:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Happy New Year! --sanfranman59 (talk) 18:30, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Image and article advice

I created a new article on Harlow, an unicorporated community in Benson County, North Dakota. To enhance the article, I found a public domain aerial photograph of the town taken in 1990 from the U.S. Geological Survey and the National Aerial Photography Program. Could you take a look at the image and let me know if you think my description is accurate? I'm certain it is in the public domain, since the NAPP is a federal program and not a commercial operation, based on the program's information page.

Medium resolution photos like this are free (no cost) to download from I selected NAPP from Aerial Photography on the left and typed Harlow, North Dakota in the search field. I think this could be a useful tool to get public domain images for a lot of those stub community articles out there. But before I go all out and start uploading images willy-nilly, I thought I'd get your opinion first.DCmacnut<> 17:48, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Great! I'll start searching and uploading as needed. If come across any articles you think would benefit, let me know and I'll handle the photos and uploading.DCmacnut<> 18:02, 31 December 2008 (UTC)r

NRHP in Wilmington, DE

Thanks for finishing splitting out the listings for Wilmington. I decided to call it a night after removing the listings from the county list and was pleasantly surprised to come back and see that it was already finished. --​​​​D.B.talkcontribs 18:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I too am guilty of copying :-) The intro for the New Castle County list was taken from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. --​​​​D.B.talkcontribs 18:41, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Elmore, Ohio

I have compromised in leaving Sandusky County on the Elmore, Ohio article. However the fact remains that it is officially recognized as part of Ottawa and not Sandusky. Second, the Portage River runs directly through the town. Please do not undo the comments in the Geography section again. Dru79 (talk) 18:59, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Are you blind? You reference your own map saying the river is on the outside of the village, but the river clearly runs through the village. It's also referenced on the Village of Elmore's homepage, so don't say I'm ignoring reliable sources. The village website is listed in external links. Dru79 (talk) 19:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Because you have stated I cannot provide a source saying that Elmore is not officially recognized as being part of Sandusky County, I will let it go- for now. But there is now a reference to the Village of Elmore website supporting the fact that the Portage River runs through it. If this does not convince you further, I suggest you take a roadtrip to the village and see for yourself. Dru79 (talk) 19:29, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I have tried multiple times to compromise with you on this article. Have you ever even been to Elmore, or are you basing all of your information on a website (US Census Bureau) that has no intimate knowledge of the local area? Please stop changing edits which are fact. If you want to verify my statements, go to the village and see for yourself. Dru79 (talk) 23:34, 31 December 2008 (UTC)