User talk:Outriggr

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Afra 008.jpg



Hi, stopping by belatedly to say hello and welcome back. I stop in here about once a week or ten days or so and never stay long, but have noted your name floating past a few times which was a nice surprise. Hope all is well. Victoriaearle (tk) 16:43, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Victoria. I am anxiously awaiting spring weather; want to put this shitty winter behind for another year. I wish the "daily savings time" BS actually coincided with spring arriving where I am; we have really long evenings in the summer, and basically by now, the evenings are already long enough for me--with another three months of lengthening evenings to go. Well it's not often I talk about the weather on wikipedia, so you know. Outriggr (talk) 22:10, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
It's ok to talk about the weather this year. It snowed every day last week and is 80 degrees today, but snow in the forecast again next week. The evenings are too long, can't agree more. Great to see you back and productive. Much more than I can say about myself. Noted the message at chez Ceoil re Cranach - I'll take a peek. Victoriaearle (tk) 20:50, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Tetschen Altar[edit]

Thanks for that excellent new article. It has long been a gaping hole on our coverage. Theramin (talk) 23:43, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Wow. Now you see, this is exactly why I hang around here at Wikipedia. I get to learn new things that fill in gaps in my knowledge, in an interesting way. Job well done. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 00:30, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Thank you! Theramin, I have long noticed your contributions to the arts here as well, and hope you stay with us. (I noticed Ceoil talking to you...) Outriggr (talk) 00:59, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Cross in the Mountains (Tetschen Altar)[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 4 May 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Cross in the Mountains (Tetschen Altar), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the German painter Caspar David Friedrich's Cross in the Mountains (pictured) marked a "decisive break" in the history of landscape painting? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cross in the Mountains (Tetschen Altar). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Cross in the Mountains (Tetschen Altar)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 12:01, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

A good one! I added it to the stats, WP:DYKSTATS. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

DYK for R. D. Lawrence[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 19 May 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article R. D. Lawrence, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Canadian naturalist R. D. Lawrence followed a cougar in the wild for nine months, and spent six months observing a beaver colony? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, R. D. Lawrence), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 01:26, 19 May 2018 (UTC)


DYK should long have been abolished, is an open invitation for idiots, and so has had to legislate for them. Thus there are a lot of people who have built careers with hammers, and you can guess how they see the world. Forget it; article creation in of itself should be rewarding without the stress of various pet topic lurkers inventing "rules" as they go along. Work towards the FAC standards; the rest is silliness. The R. D. Lawrence article is superb and as well written as I would expect from you. Ceoil (talk) 08:50, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

May I just say that it is all too easy to forget why (or if) this place is fun, and DYK and certain folk are especially good at speeding up that process? Don’t let the bastards get you down, seriously. Kafka Liz (talk) 09:09, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Would say the same to Theramin, who seems equally disillusioned. Ceoil (talk) 09:14, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks you alls. Nice to see you (in David Letterman voice). I have learned my lesson, meta-lesson.[1] Outriggr (talk) 02:32, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Ah Nirvana. Have you heard these guys[2]. I think they will be huge in 2028. Ceoil (talk) 08:32, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


Your Dürer article is wonderfully written. Very impressed. Ceoil (talk) 23:53, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Oh you are too kind, but then you are a saint now. Outriggr (talk) 00:14, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I have long been a saint, thanks for the recognition, can u update Yoman, I never got the impression he realised. Thinking of a username rename, would you believe common people don't like me constantly drawing attention to the whole sinner/saint dynamic, even when I offer eternal rest, or GTF. Always nice to talk again man. St. Caurgula (talk) 00:24, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Your FAC review[edit]

Yo. I was browsing the pile-up over at the Black Friday article and was impressed by your feedback about the passive voice and "dilutive" phrasing. This sort of sensitivity to writing is rare on Wikipedia. Keep up the good work! Popcornduff (talk) 00:26, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Popcornduff, I appreciate it. It's always nice to hear from someone with a positive thing to say! Outriggr (talk) 01:06, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

For a friend[edit]

[3] - this made me think of you. Kafka Liz (talk) 14:45, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

(meant as a compliment. No hidden snark) Kafka Liz (talk) 10:50, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! [4]
Also, I have activated a FuturePing, which means at some point you will receive ... something. Outriggr (talk) 00:35, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
I’m a bit scared now...unless it’s a FuturePing at Sunrise. Kafka Liz (talk) 09:01, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
I see now that I was a bit vogue. Also, all "summer fling" means to me is like, when you fling your towel onto the beach, or fling a frisbee in the park, or fling roadkill onto the barbie. Outriggr (talk) 23:23, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
Rico Bell of The Mekons does a very excellent cover of [5]. Hope the tune itself is not too coals to Newcastle. Kafka Liz (talk) 15:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


(As in an actual message) for digging in over on Imagism - it's been on my mental "to do" list for only about 10 years. If you have questions, as in sourcing, I do have sources. Some are even at my fingertips - well not quite, but only about three feet away - so easy to get to without too much stress. Oh, that's means they're actual real dead wood books! Have I told you it's good to see you around? If not, a belated "it's good to see you around". Take care, Victoriaearle (tk) 22:57, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

oh hi! The article has an odd history which has given it a pastiche of references with no clear referencing strategy. It was an early featured article, then had the pastiche of notes added later. As annoyingly they were often unformatted/dumped in. I tried to fix that. I can't say much else about it. Good to see you as well, Outriggr (talk) 23:07, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Yes, that's exactly what happened. It's good to see it get a polish. I just popped in for a quick moment, saw your edits at the top of my watch and thought they deserve some sort of recognition. Thanks, too, for finding that Ezra pic. It looks really nice. I'm off to bed now, so not really around. Just ghosting in and out. Victoriaearle (tk) 23:26, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Appreciate you doing so.
If you have any other ideas for pictures, please let me know or add them. I feel somewhat guilty plastering more Pound around (heh); maybe some of the other poets... Outriggr (talk) 23:37, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Moar thanks[edit]

Vincent Willem van Gogh 124.jpg
flowers, music, balloon

Thank you for your moderating comments on AE, the worst place Wikipedia has to offer, so I try to avoid it, and will try to do that this round, although my name has been mentioned (without a ping, but I watch it, of course). - In the (collapsed) discussion on the E.P. talk, I was referring to Ceoil's "Thanks Gerda, from one battle weary trooper to another :), although "that several made one" is a weird sentence." I understand "battle-weary" all to well, and wanted to explain what "several made one" means. So I looked (for the first time in that article, which I never edited, nor the talk page) at who had added an infobox when, and made a factual list of the diffs of the additions, with a link to the "who". I was then told those links were canvassing. I didn't mean to, but so it goes. Even if I had known about "noping", I'd probably not wanted to mention users without letting them know. (I didn't look at the diffs of those reverting, for lack of time, and because I didn't want to blame them. Interesting that several of those who had added later reverted others, and themselves.) - DYK that I prepared 10 slots for the diffs of additions, but that was not enough? - I still believe that the unhappy situation could be cured not by blocks and bans, but by assuming good faith. I assume that the 16 who added an infobox didn't come to war, but to improve the article (sure that several didn't even know that infobox wars exist, - and do they exist?). To assume that seems such a hard thing. End of musing.

Take some flowers, it's my parents' wedding anniversary, and the bridal flowers were gladiolas from her parents' garden. I share them in loving memory, with a touch of art. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:02, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

ps: the link under the flowers is intentional canvassing! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:43, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Prevents infection and infobox time sinks
Thanks Gerda. I guess it didn't help. I actually had AE watchlisted because at some point I realized that it was the place where the Arbcom rubber hits the road, if you know that idiom. On that page Drmies likens these IB discussions to picking a scab - exactly - and we need to put a head cone on this small number of pages so that everyone can do something better. Look at the time and bad feelings spent on that talk page for "no consensus". Even now another person comes along to say the discussion should continue. I remain trying to figure out what significant problem there is to "solve", that it is worth reams of text, but such is the (modern) wiki way. I suppose the old Manual of Style wars were as bad as IB stuff, but that's all I can think of in terms of importance to project vs. amount of debate. (At least MOS "consensuses" affect the whole project.)
Coincidence that you have a link to this pianist on your page, when I had visited that article last night as she came up on Youtube's cycle of concerto videos. Do you like Bach keyboard works? I am really mostly familiar with that aspect of Bach (plus related concertos), whereas you write about the sacred music. Outriggr (talk) 23:47, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Music first, a much more pleasing topic: I list Ott with the others I heard this year, more to come, she played Ravel. I don't write about Bach's keyboard music, because Francis Schonken does. We disagree on how to insert the new BWV numbers, - I go for traditional first, he for placing that under "formerly" and "previosly". Edit war and all, sigh. - I love to listen to Bach's keyboard music, play the easy pieces myself, and Brandenburg V will be the next concert at the festival. - Ibox: just imagine for a moment if a newcomer to a page such as E.P. would be told in a friendly way that the main authors agreed to have no ibox, instead of suspicion of warfare and sockpuppetry? I wonder if these wars exist. I got my name damaged for wanting an infobox for Götterdämmerung and Beethoven, and it will probably stick forever. Three years ago, when I survived the last AE (Hallelujah), I turned to writing more articles myself where I'm in control of that editorial decision, leaving the others alone. I review articles such as Debussy without even mentioning that I miss something, a simple collection of when and where that person was born, and died, and why we have an article. I will probably never understand where the problem is to show that structured at a glance. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:41, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
Gerda I think a lot about this also, and have come to the conclusion that we are so far in (years and years deep) that its not not anymore about boxes but deeply entrenched tribes and they can become proxy wars (which I totally understand, I could jump in with Shrodo everday, as have a lot of time for Cassianto). I do participate once every blue moon, but really only on odd-ball articles where you have very wide images that an infobox would suffocate. More often than not I use them for new articles, and my general view is....argument is baaaaa. Ceoil (talk) 00:18, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Tom Thomson & conflict resolution[edit]

Hey there. You've been oh so helpful guiding me with all of my Tom Thomson related ventures and I ought to say thank you again for giving me that push. Thank you! That's not all I'm here for though—I have a favour to ask because you're the most experienced user I've interacted with.

On the talk page for the Death and legacy of Tom Thomson, I've had an author of a book show up and get upset that I removed his website (twice actually!) from the External links of the page. I'm not entirely sure how to proceed so I was hoping—using WP:CONTENTDISPUTE as my guide—that you could be a third opinion and help clear things up.

All the discussion is mostly present on the talk page there, but it's getting a bit long so here's a succinct run down of my case:

  1. I've cited the fact that he's violating WP:COI by trying to include the website for his book in the External links. Specifically, the book: Lehto, Neil J. (2005). Algonquin Elegy Tom Thomson's Last Spring. New York: Universe Inc. ISBN 978-0-59536-132-8. He isn't trying to put it back but is talking to me the Talk page instead, so this isn't really an issue any more. The issue is...
  2. I'm not sure if it should be included. The guidelines listed on WP:LINKSTOAVOID, specifically #11, say:

    Blogs, personal web pages and most fansites (negative ones included), except those written by a recognized authority. (This exception for blogs, etc., controlled by recognized authorities is meant to be very limited; as a minimum standard, recognized authorities who are individuals always meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for people.)

    His essays come across as blog entries of sorts, and I have done my best to not engage him in debating whether or not he fits the criteria for a notable individual (arguing with a person over this on Wikipedia sounds absolutely ridiculous to me). His book is in the bibliography, but only for a passing mention that his book exists (I put the book in there, after all).

I'd really appreciate some help here as I'm not particularly experienced in determining the notability of people—after all, I'm used to editing the articles of dead people!

Cheers. Tkbrett (✉) 02:40, 26 October 2018 (UTC)


Do have a rest, but please do come back. Theramin (talk) 03:29, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Seconded. We miss you man, and there is now a dearth of Canadians. It is hard enough that Lingzi went away. Ceoil (talk) 03:35, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! Outriggr (talk) 06:28, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
same feelings, thanks for a sign of life! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:18, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

You are missed[edit]

The Virgin Mary and Five Standing Saints above Predella Panels Full.jpg Gothic Seasons Greetings MS M.493, fol. 28v edit.jpg
Wishing you all the best for x-mass bla bla. It was great to see you around this year man, and the resulting output was typically brilliant. I miss the auld days, and you know what I think. ps: do u know how to write white text on a black background? (A friend of mine wants to know) Ceoil (talk) 19:23, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks for the black secret greetings. When do I get the special handshake etc. Ulysses, and time: farewells vs fair walls. Outriggr (talk) 07:53, 26 December 2018 (UTC)


Bachsaal Schloss Koethen.jpg

Die Zeit, die Tag und Jahre macht

Happy 2019 -

begin it with music and memories

Thank you for your help last year, including the source review for the TFA! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:05, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Please check out "Happy" once more, for a smile, and sharing (a Nobel Peace Prize), and resolutions. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:40, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Best wishes for a happy 2019[edit]

The Hill Country (1913) by Walter Elmer Schofield, Woodmere Art Museum.
Thank you for your contributions toward making Wikipedia a better and more accurate place.

== BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 00:33, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago[edit]

Ten years!

Enjoy resting!. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:12, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

... and again! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:01, 26 April 2019 (UTC)