User talk:Pandelver

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This is Pandelver's Discussion/User_talk page for communications regarding all wikis.

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Thank you for the wonderful additions. Ebikeguy (talk) 02:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

My appreciation for help and guidance from veteran fellow Wikipedians[edit]

Pandelver to PhGustaf:

Thank you!

Best wishes and happy editing, PhGustaf (talk) 01:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for being inattentive...I can't help...with translations. Goo luck. PhGustaf (talk) 19:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

PhGustaf, I didn't think a day or two to reply was inattentive at all; we're not 24 hours Wikipedians. Thank you for helping in all the ways you can. And if you hear of who among programmers of Wikipedia or those brainstorming future policy for greater multilinguality in harnessing resources, especially those already within the Wikipediac fold such as in Wikimedia, are working, do keep me in mind to let me know! And best of luck in all your endeavors, here and elsewhere.

Warmest regards PhGustaf, Pandelver (talk) 04:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Pandelver to SineBot:

How wonderful! SineBot, are you a fully automated identity, a Wikipedia electronic-only program? Please tell, out of your own consciousness (not because anyone makes you do so!).

Pandelver to WoodyWerm:
Thank you, Woody(?), I have also given you thanks on your own talk page, appreciate your attentive response
Pandelver to RHaworth:
Thank you also, RHaworth! :)

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WikiCup 2013 February newsletter[edit]

Round 1 is now over. The top 64 scorers have progressed to round 2, where they have been randomly split into eight pools of eight. At the end of April, the top two from each pool, as well as the 16 highest scorers from those remaining, will progress to round 3. Commiserations to those eliminated; if you're interested in still being involved in the WikiCup, able and willing reviewers will always be needed, and if you're interested in getting involved with other collaborative projects, take a look at the WikiWomen's Month discussed below.

Round 1 saw 21 competitors with over 100 points, which is fantastic; that suggests that this year's competition is going to be highly competative. Our lower scores indicate this, too: A score of 19 was required to reach round 2, which was significantly higher than the 11 points required in 2012 and 8 points required in 2011. The score needed to reach round 3 will be higher, and may depend on pool groupings. In 2011, 41 points secured a round 3 place, while in 2012, 65 was needed. Our top three scorers in round 1 were:

  1. Colorado Sturmvogel_66 (submissions), primarily for an array of warship GAs.
  2. London Miyagawa (submissions), primarily for an array of did you knows and good articles, some of which were awarded bonus points.
  3. New South Wales Casliber (submissions), due in no small part to Canis Minor, a featured article awarded a total of 340 points. A joint submission with Alaska Keilana (submissions), this is the highest scoring single article yet submitted in this year's competition.

Other contributors of note include:

Featured topics have still played no part in this year's competition, but once again, a curious contribution has been offered by British Empire The C of E (submissions): did you know that there is a Shit Brook in Shropshire? With April Fools' Day during the next round, there will probably be a good chance of more unusual articles...

March sees the WikiWomen's History Month, a series of collaborative efforts to aid the women's history WikiProject to coincide with Women's History Month and International Women's Day. A number of WikiCup participants have already started to take part. The project has a to-do list of articles needing work on the topic of women's history. Those interested in helping out with the project can find articles in need of attention there, or, alternatively, add articles to the list. Those interested in collaborating on articles on women's history are also welcome to use the WikiCup talk page to find others willing to lend a helping hand. Another collaboration currently running is an an effort from WikiCup participants to coordinate a number of Easter-themed did you know articles. Contributions are welcome!

A few final administrative issues. From now on, submission pages will need only a link to the article and a link to the nomination page, or, in the case of good article reviews, a link to the review only. See your submissions' page for details. This will hopefully make updating submission pages a little less tedious. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talkemail) and The ed17 (talkemail) J Milburn (talk) 01:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

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Disambiguation link notification for August 21[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Chasing the dragon, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page British. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Yes, this link was intended. Thank you, too. Disambiguation pages often include substantive Wikipedia encyclopedic information as well as mere link lists, especially in their first paragraphs and any summary descriptions provided for items in their lists. Pandelver (talk) 17:18, 26 August 2014 (UTC)


While experts seem to agree that Australian dingoes and NGSDs are wild true dogs, can we be so confident about all Canis lupus dingo? The Thai dog seems to be just an ordinary street dog, even though experts class them as C.l. dingo based on their skull shapes and so on. Chrisrus (talk) 14:32, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah, we are surely in agreement here, Chrisrus:

You point out a Venn diagram kind of subsets untidiness as well as, shifting those subsets, potential overlap (with changing domicile venue) over time messiness. In this case, (C l. dingo set) contains those which are (true wild dog subsets) and may also contain (Thai dingo/dog as another subset which may not (some or all) be simultaneously a member of the (true wild dog subset)) though its members may originate with members of (true wild dog subset within C. l. dingo set) or its members may move, through feral to long-term 'naturalized wildering ->attributed nativity' wildness as a matter of either human popular, conventional, or strict evolutionary parsing by geoduration, behavioral, epignetic, physio-anatomical distinctiveness. . . you join a human domicile quickly, but when are you or your descendants wild again if you leave one, eh? I suspect what you point out does get ambiguously used in what this article has been calling 'expert' reference: C. l. d. is recognized in comparison with f. as 'true' 'wild', but yes a few have become home friends, comensals, adopted family or captives or bred by humans, and in a moment's context we may wish to know whether we are saying they are part of the subspecies which is 'wild' in general tax or are leaving or have left that subset, or rather, which meaning is being used by the subset name.

If you'd like to add something about the situation of the historical or present Thai population in this regard, mention them and any other varieties you consider borderline or ambiguous cases and qualify the TWD set in relation to the C. l. d. set and subsets in this article, please go right ahead.

And since, of the 3 dogs currently listed in the Thai Dog disambiguation page, only the dingo does not have its own page, while the other two are at the same tax level, did you want to be the one to create and fill that out better, including more of the relevant attributes and history surrounding what you point out, so it does not only continue as a subheading under other articles, its largest text (and are there photos anywhere yet?) being under the C. l. d. article, Chrisrus? Pandelver (talk) 06:33, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Let's just get this straight. I understand that while the term "wild dog" has many referents, in expert usage, the only ones that they use the term for which is actually a true dog happen to all be C.l.dingo, but that not all of them are wild.
According to,204,203,200_.jpg, C.l.dingo is a product of the prehistoric Austronesian diaspora. Austronesian people such as Indonesians and Philipinos and such must have originated on or near the continent and then spread out to different Islands, taking their dogs with them, where they still are to this day. Those that stayed in Thailand are still normal dogs, and that's apparently why there is little scientific interest in them. Those on other islands went other directions, and those on New Guinea and Australia eventually went wild but not until long after the whole process started. So they are default domesticated animals, albeit quite primitive and not very domesticated as Pekingese for example or modern breeds, but that to equate all c.l. dingo with wildness is very common idea but not right.
It wasn't until Corbett went to Thailand and did his study of hundreds of specimins (by the way he got them from the butcher) that he finally published that they were closely related to the only very famous C.l.dingo, the Australian dingo, and that that must have been their place of origin or close to it. But this is not to say that he was trying to say anything about the Thai native dog in terms of it's wildness. It was all based on skull shapes and bones and estrus cycle and such. Thai dogs are the same comensal village dogs or street dogs that you see elsewhere, not found fending for themselves indepentant of people like Aus Dingoes or NGSDs.
You're right, however, that this does tend to make a mess of things. For his purposes, Corbett doesn't use "lupus", he calls them Canis dingo and has his own different subspecies names that he uses. He can tell a coastal Aus dingo from a desert one from a skull fragment at a glance. Seen from his perspective, this makes sense for cataloging specimins. He's the one who employed by the government to figure out the net effect of the predator on different livestock populations in his native Australia, whether the rabbits they kill make up for the calves they take, and so on, so everything with him stems from that POV. This explains why of all the old dog subspecies taxa that they used to use, one for bulldogs, one for poodles, one for sheepdogs, one or hounds, and so on, dingo is the only one still in use. But meanwhile the rest of the world dropped all that when they unadvisedly made the domestic dog a subspecies of wolf. Now there's no room to maneuver.
There's no substitute for taxonomy, but to me, it's not real, just a necessary contrivance, no realer than the Dewey decimal system. Not everything fits nicely and there are always gray areas. What's real to me are the smooth branches of clades, and the actual history of how all creatures got to be what they are. But Wikipedia articles have clear lines between them, just like the labels and specimen jars and boxes and drawers and their labels that taxonimists have to have. So we have to make it work but not to force it and admit when it doesn't make much sense as it is bound to do at times. Chrisrus (talk) 06:19, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Austro-Asian-etal humans "taking their dogs with them" continues AFAIK to be the general assumption, and usually made because of swimming distances imagined as an alternative. Away from Corbett, there's mtDNA and related digging just begun really, not only in the species but regarding plate tectonic timings, so perhaps for a few years we shouldn't expect much more pith to be revealed yet out of what can eventually be sleuthed after-the-fact where canid migrations antedating these human groups is still in the pot being kept open as earlier radiation of both dingo and familiaris have been asserted in recent years. So as for 'getting this straight', in our conversation together we prolly already were fairly so. What would you like to do as editor, then? And hope you received my friendly heads up and inquiry on your page? Pandelver (talk) 06:33, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

btw, when you tell the story of stay-at-home Thai dogs being the untraveled, unchanged-by-new-circumstances-pressure-on-evolution pre-dingoes, you are prolly suggesting the reverse to the path you ascribe to Corbett as assuming 'famous dingo is in AU' so 'Thai must have come from near THERE' - you are suggesting that dingoness might first be evolved in the stay-at-home mainland/coastal/near island landraces which the farther dingoes then resemble as descendants, and maybe with the features we have come to consider dingo emphasized in their modifications! Pandelver (talk) 06:51, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

and oh, sharing your amusement about what Thai animal vendor handled Corbett's first examined specimens, did Corbett say they were tasty, or recommend recipes among the local repertoire? Pandelver (talk) 06:54, 17 July 2015 (UTC) NGSDs may have sampled good recipes for cooked or prepared human, courtesy of human tribes,as they aren't known for eating any raw, I'm also curious, even if it's less likely, if through his examination of digestion and by other means, if Corbett found good recipes for humans among Thai dingoes!. Pandelver (talk) 02:59, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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Well, DPLbot, my my your report is partly wrong, you have a bug which causes you to say that links to 1 of these 3 DA pages were added, because 2 were indeed added as well as another one but not a link to St. Cloud, but you are self-aware that you may be buggy and say so, which is very nice of you. You have substituted the phrase 'St. Cloud' for 'St. Paul' in speaking to me, and 'St. Paul' does not lead to a DA page. Fortunately, these 3 were properly intended, and the other 1 you imagine doesn't exist. You are already free to create such links yourself! You do me and all of us the service of pointing out where a name or geo reference only leads to a DA page, and I have acted upon that to sharpen 2 of these links to specific articles which I then found listed on those DA pages. We shall leave 1 DA link as is, since the institution we are mentioning is listed on that DA page but does not have its own page yet, so the DA page is the best home to visit for tea at W at present. May I make you a cup, would you like that?

It's OK to leave me messages in your confusion in the sense that I am commpassionate about your psychosis, "it's nothing, just little stuff." Grow and be incredible in many wonderful ways, bot! Pandelver (talk) 17:02, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

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