User talk:Peter Isotalo

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MMM[edit]

Riza-i Abbasi Young Portuguese 1634. Detroit IoA.jpg

Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey. Hafspajen (talk) 15:12, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

BRD[edit]

You are familiar with the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle? You boldly replaced the image, I reverted your edit, and now you Discuss. It's not Bold, Revert, original poster that is on a crusade continues his crusade and insists that everyone else in the world discusses his crusade interminably without resolution because he won't listen to anyone else.—Kww(talk) 23:44, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Except I did discuss. But revert if you feel that's appropriate.
Peter Isotalo 07:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Quick question about the deletion in mass killings[edit]

Hi Peter, I would want to understand why you did your last deletion. You give as a reasons that the source (which I did not read) is focused on women. But that one fact was about men. Does a source always have to be fully dedicated to be suitable for citation? I see why this question my sound stupid or provocative, but I am really having a hard time understanding wiki policies and explanations are always helpful. Thank you!Lucentcalendar (talk) 08:07, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Lucent, read some of the linked sources at talk:violence against men#Gendercide sources. Most authors comment on the fact that Warren focused on women. And what follows directly after the first quoted sentence I removed is this: "But there are some crucial differences between anti-male and anti-female gendercide."[1]
It's being milked for all its worth, which results in unnecessary undue weight. A lot of the recent edits border on the polemic with synthesis stuffed in between relevant facts. Unfortunately, those facts are also worded in a fairly shrill manner. It's tendentious, even if it's not outright false.
Btw, I'm itching to fix this, but I'm holding off until the AfD is closed. Things will likely calm down after that.
Peter Isotalo 08:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! I think I got myself into the worst place to be on wikipedia :-) I have edited many articles before as an IP, mostly on statistics and some minor facts, also some translation back and forth from the German Wikipedia. I never needed an account to talk to others, I was never concerned about some policies, frankly I was not aware of their existance, it all seemed so simple. Anyways, thank you for your patience!Lucentcalendar (talk) 08:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Yup. You walked right into a perfect storm of controversy. You've got gender, violence men's rights movement issues, the WP:GGTF (everyone's favorite punching bag) and discretionary sanctions involved. Tread carefully and focus on content issues. Be especially wary of the ArbCom sanctions. They mean that if you get into an ugly personal dispute or edit warring, you might be taken to sanctions enforcements without going through WP:ANI. If anything, don't let yourself get provoked. And I should know; I don't have a perfect record when it comes to temper management. Only Blessed WikiSaints like Bishonen manage to balance these things almost perfectly.
Don't hesitate to ask for help if you need it. I'll do my best to guide you.
Peter Isotalo 09:30, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for you information and your offer, I will try my best to stay out of trouble. Lucentcalendar (talk) 10:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Language-population update project[edit]

Hi. The 18th edition of Ethnologue just came out, and if we divide up our language articles among us, it won't take long to update them. I would appreciate it if you could help out, even if it's just a few articles (5,000 articles is a lot for just me), but I won't be insulted if you delete this request.

A largely complete list of articles to be updated is at Category:Language articles citing Ethnologue 17. The priority articles are in Category:Language articles with old Ethnologue 17 speaker data. These are the 10% that have population figures at least 25 years old.

Probably 90% of the time, Ethnologue has not changed their figures between the 17th and 18th editions, so all we need to do is change "e17" to "e18" in the reference (ref) field of the language info box. That will change the citation for the artcle to the current edition. Please put the data in the proper fields, or the info box will flag it as needing editorial review. The other relevant fields are "speakers" (the number of native speakers in all countries), "date" (the date of the reference or census that Ethnologue uses, not the date of Ethnologue!), and sometimes "speakers2". Our convention has been to enter e.g. "1990 census" when a census is used, as other data can be much older than the publication date. Sometimes a citation elsewhere in the article depends on the e17 entry, in which case you will need to change "name=e17" to "name=e18" in the reference tag (assuming the 18th edition still supports the cited claim).

Remember, we want the *total* number of native speakers, which is often not the first figure given by Ethnologue. Sometimes the data is too incompatible to add together (e.g. a figure from the 1950s for one country, and a figure from 2006 for another), in which case it should be presented that way. That's one use for the "speakers2" field. If you're not sure, just ask, or skip that article.

Data should not be displayed with more than two, or at most three, significant figures. Sometimes it should be rounded off to just one significant figure, e.g. when some of the component data used by Ethnologue has been approximated with one figure (200,000, 3 million, etc.) and the other data has greater precision. For example, a figure of 200,000 for one country and 4,230 for another is really just 200,000 in total, as the 4,230 is within the margin of rounding off in the 200,000. If you want to retain the spurious precision of the number in Ethnologue, you might want to use the {{sigfig}} template. (First parameter in this template is for the data, second is for the number of figures to round it off to.)

Dates will often need to be a range of all the country data in the Ethnologue article. When entering the date range, I often ignore dates from countries that have only a few percent of the population, as often 10% or so of the population isn't even separately listed by Ethnologue and so is undated anyway.

If Ethnologue does not provide a date for the bulk of the population, just enter "no date" in the date field. But if the population figure is undated, and hasn't changed between the 17th & 18th editions of Ethnologue, please leave the ref field set to "e17", and maybe add a comment to keep it so that other editors don't change it. In cases like this, the edition of Ethnologue that the data first appeared in may be our only indication of how old it is. We still cite the 14th edition in a couple dozen articles, so our readers can see that the data is getting old.

The articles in the categories linked above are over 90% of the job. There are probably also articles that do not currently cite Ethnologue, but which we might want to update with the 18th edition. I'll need to generate another category to capture those, probably after most of the Ethnologue 17 citations are taken care of.

Jump in at the WP:LANG talk page if you have any comments or concerns. Thanks for any help you can give!

kwami (talk) 02:17, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Peter[edit]

Hi Peter, thank you for telling me to 'back off'. I appreciate your intervention because, without it, who knows what might have happened? I may have returned to normal life, having moved on from my very brief dispute on Flyer22's talk page. Thanks for getting involved. 77.99.12.140 (talk) 19:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

No, the IP has not gotten a life. And if the IP keeps it up, he will realize that he is messing with the wrong editor. Flyer22 (talk) 22:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi Flyer22, thanks for your contribution to this discussion, though I don't appreciate the threatening tone. It's a shame you feel the need to make threats and try and use admin staff as your own personal army, but if you feel that is the only resolution, so be it. You've continued this, despite saying "unlike you, when I'm done, I mean it". I would happily drop it, as I haven't left any further messages on your talk page. I am also not a 'he'. Take care, "wrong editor", and please leave me be. 77.99.12.140 (talk) 01:17, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I see that your reading skills still require improvement. I stated, "Whatever you do now, it's time to ignore you here at my talk page. You will be ignored from here on out by me at this talk page." The "done" part was with regard to you commenting on my talk page, not with regard to you being WP:Disruptive elsewhere. As for the rest of what you stated, it's mess as usual. But if you don't want warnings about your behavior and WP:Administrators to be alerted to that behavior, then stop behaving badly. Flyer22 (talk) 01:40, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
"I see that your reading skills still require improvement" - personal attacks like this don't help, as I think we've already established.
"if you don't want warnings about your behavior and WP:Administrators to be alerted to that behavior, then stop behaving badly." - likewise. Please stop behaving in an antagonistic manner towards me. Take care 77.99.12.140 (talk) 02:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

About "Vasa, the ship"[edit]

Hello Peter ! I had a look on the article Vasa (ship), and neither under "Vasa as wreck" or "archeology" could I find out the reason why she was so well preserved, after all. In the oceans wrecks, like Vasa was for more than 300 years, dissoleved due to shipworm ("skeppsmask"). The same creatures destoyed sailing ships aswell. But in fresh water or waters with a low salinity, the shipworm is absent. (I don't know at what PCU the shipworm requires, but old wrecks in Öresund gets destoyed).
Please note , this is entirely without offence. I just thought it may perhaps be better if You could improve this part of the article ? Boeing720 (talk) 19:35, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
It's mentioned in "Archaeology" and "Conservation", though.
Peter Isotalo 23:06, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Oh then I'm sorry. A doubtful location though, perhaps the headline should be "natural conservation" (before it was salvaged). Or splitted between that and the current conservation at the museum. Just a thought. Boeing720 (talk) 00:19, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
They're put into context, so not that doubtful. "Natural conservation" seems overly specific, but there's always "Deterioration".
Peter Isotalo 12:45, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Courteous tone[edit]

Hello! Try a courteous an considerate tone with opponents (as per a little guideline abbreviated WP:AGF), especially if you're ever going to have to write on my talk page again. I would really appreciate that very much, and on article talk pages, you'll find we'll all have a much better time, including you, and get results much faster. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Barrdahl"[edit]

Hello. How would you pronounce the surname "Barrdahl" in Swedish? [ˈbarːdɑːl], [ˈbarːˈdɑːl], [ˈbaɖːɑːl] or [ˈbaˈɖːɑːl]? — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 21:37, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

It's a slightly unusual name based on the common -dahl formula, so I don't believe I've never actually heard it before. Going on intuition, I'd assume [ˈbarːˈdɑːl] since it consists of barr ("pine needle") and dal ("valley") and is a typical accent 2-word. There are phoentic parallels to this in barrskog ("pine forest") and the place name Kärrtorp. In neither of these would there be a /r/-assimilation.
I believe that in two-syllable accent 2 words, retroflex assimilation only occur when the words aren't compounds. Examples of this would be karda ("card"), värna ("to protect; to defend"), porla ("to purl") or vårta ("wart").
Peter Isotalo 23:21, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 23:34, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
You're welcome, Peter. Revising my statement above. When I started thinking of other examples, I realized it's the length of the /r/ that matters: farsot ("pestilence; contagion"), karlslok ("worthless man"), barnteater ("children's theater") and härskara ("host; army"; archaic) are all accent 2 compounds, but would all be pronounced with retroflex assimilations (bolded). Which makes sense since assimilations will cross word boundaries in r du har gått ("when you've left") or mor såg mig ("mother saw me").
Peter Isotalo 06:51, 16 March 2015 (UTC).
Thanks again! One more question - how is Marcus Schössow pronounced? The first name is [ˈmarːkɵs] (at least according to the audio clip on Forvo), but I'm not sure about the surname. Perhaps [ˈɕœsːɔf], [ˈɕœˈsːɔf]? — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 07:18, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Definitely [ˈɧœsɔv]. A sch is always ɧ and names with -ow endings are accent 1. Max von Sydow is an excellent parallel.
Peter Isotalo 07:26, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Added. Thanks once again. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 07:43, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Haha[edit]

The very first attempts to fika

Asked a Skåning about the fika thing, just to be sure that indeed is not a Lunds-University-thing only. He said : Umgås inte med idioter, det känns som att jag fikar hela tiden, och jag är ju mest i Skåne. Hehe. Hafspajen (talk) 01:08, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Maybe it's a local thing. Or a conspiracy by the anti-tea cabal!
Peter Isotalo 07:34, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Do you 2 really mean you've heard Scanians use the word fika? I just can't imagine that. I've known about 300, and I've never once heard them say that. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Please note! I'm just asking, not arguing. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 21:53, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't know if I've been in a situation where I've discussed fika with a southerner. And even if I have, I haven't listened for the absence of the word. It might be local or specific to an older generation of speakers. Either way, it's still just hearsay.
Peter Isotalo 06:53, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
I've done some more recent checking, and apparently it in fact is used nowadays. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 03:12, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
ÖH, yes. I've heard Scanians use the word fika... Samelessly. Hafspajen (talk) 08:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Naughty
Fugel David gegen Goliath.jpg
Beyond Fika
??? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:24, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Ah, the early, not-so successful attempts at fika, Hafs. Even across the centuries, you can tell they were longing for something more than just booze to pass time. The Wife of Bath was on to something:
I woll gyve yewe the wyne, and ye shull me also,
For tyll we go to soper, we have naught elles to do.
Peter Isotalo 18:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I have, God woot, a large feeld to ere,
(I have, God knows, a large field to till),
  • And wayke been the oxen in my plough.
And the oxen in my plow are weak.
  • The remenant of the tale is long ynough.
The remnant of the tale is long enough.
  • I wol nat letten eek noon of this route;
Also I will not hinder any one of this company;
  • Lat every felawe telle his tale aboute,
Let every fellow tell his tale in turn,
  • And lat se now who shal the soper wynne;
And let's see now who shall win the supper;
  • And ther I lefte, I wol ayeyn bigynne.
And where I left off, I will again begin.
  • Hafspajen (talk) 19:56, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Jag swarade helt modest och med utan någon alteration. Så att iag giorde så mycket mera platz att gifwa, bediandes att han bara skulle säija mig sin rätta willia och låta mig sedan råda med fika, så skulle iag snart nog bringa det i god ordning: och intet war möijeligit såsom hon på pappret stod att Formera, så framt man icke på första linieen undantränga måste." Hafspajen (talk) 20:12, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Hey, Hafs, what was the D&G pic about? My slinging of wit against my seemingly almighty opponents? Or were you implying that I have grown into a Wikipedian Goliath merely waiting for some newbie to revenge-bite me to death?
Peter Isotalo 18:46, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
ÖÖÖ. No, you are the David. Hafspajen (talk) 02:12, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Urban areas in Sweden[edit]

Hi. You seem familiar with Sweden-related articles so I ask you because I have a discussion with Bkonrad regarding my changes at Stockholm urban area. I also changed Gothenburg urban area and Malmö urban area and articles that refers to these. I brought up the issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sweden/Archive 2 a time ago but did not get any answer (see sections "Urban areas" and "Are the urban areas duplicated here?") and now lastly here where I decided to proceed with redirecting them. Are the three articles with "urban area" in their title different from Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö? I think they look like duplicates and that they are all about urban areas (localities or "tätort"). --IRISZOOM (talk) 01:20, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)@IRISZOOM: I know it's an old post but since no-one had replied, I'll do it. All three of those urban areas (tätorter) include parts of more than one municipality (kommun) and there are parts of each of those three "main" municipalities that aren't included in the urban areas per the Swedish definition of tätort (which is mainly based on the distance between individual houses/buildings). So Malmö and Malmö urban area are two different things, with different size both geographically and in population, and the same goes for the other two. Sorry for temporarily hijacking your talk page, Peter... Thomas.W talk 18:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
We had some discussion at User talk:Bkonrad#Regarding Stockholm. If you can show the articles have different scopes, it would be great for those articles to be updated. However, the articles had the same scope (both mentioned the same area and population) so they were duplicates. --IRISZOOM (talk) 20:44, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians whose talkpages are decorated by Hafspajen[edit]

Strix aluco 1 (Martin Mecnarowski).jpg

Hi Peter. You can add this category to your userpage if you like. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, decorating, decorating. Earning my bread. Hafspajen (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

?[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Peter Isotalo. You have new messages at Hafspajen's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Reply[edit]

Hello Peter, please visit my talk-page again. I've written an honnest reply. And I see no reason to trouble each other. Thanks for the hints of museums, by the way Boeing720 (talk) 10:03, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Do you mind??[edit]

Darwinbish.jpg
Tin isn't a problem! See how sorry this guy is he reverted me? darwinbish BITE 18:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC).

[Insinuatingly.] Just come a little closer, dear sir! [The whirring noise you hear is Darwinbish filing her sharp little teeth to needlepoints.] darwinbish BITE 18:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC).

"Hope you don't mind a slightly tinny discourse."
Uh, lemme just get my... uhm... dressing gown.
Peter Isotalo 18:42, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy Easter[edit]

02014 Ostermarkt 2014 in Gemeinde Sanok - Osterhäschen.JPG Happy Easter
Happy Easter....  ! Hafspajen (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Bucintoro[edit]

You are right that a barge is not a galley. The matter is if the Bucintoro is a barge or a galley. I think it is a classic galley, with 20-30 oars and latin sail; while barges are flat hull ships suitable for river navigation. Lele giannoni (talk) 12:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Lele, it's a pleasure barge, actually. Galleys have been used for ceremonial purposes, but the bucentaur is not one of them. It doesn't fit the criteria of contemporary galleys at all. Very different hull structure for one thing. If you think otherwise, find sources that agree with you.
Peter Isotalo 16:50, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Why are you asking questions of me ...[edit]

... when you know I can't reply?[2] Eric Corbett 19:35, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Are you under ArbCom enforcement not to post at GGTF?
Peter Isotalo 19:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
I believe so yes. I only posted what I did because the title of the thread confused me into thinking that I was posting at the ArbCom case. Eric Corbett 19:41, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Right. You can't expect everyone to keep tabs on enforcements, though. A lot of users have been involved in that case, but I'm not one of them. Why did you pose that question, though?
Peter Isotalo 19:46, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not even allowed to answer that question safely. Eric Corbett 19:47, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
D'oh. Well, away it went.[3] I'll try to stay out of this one.
Peter Isotalo 19:51, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

ANI[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Following up your WP:OWN with WP:HOUNDING leaves little other choice. Jeppiz (talk) 21:35, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

May 2015[edit]

Information icon Please do not add or change content, as you did at Sweden, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Please stop adding totally unsourced material to the article. Thomas.W talk 13:56, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Thomas.W (talk · contribs): Don't template the regulars. Especially not in a dispute, it only antagonizes and exacerbates. Deflate. Deescalate. Build consensus.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 14:39, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


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Stød[edit]

Why don't you come over and help me get "Stød" into shape instead?·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:34, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Flag of Sweden[edit]

You in a way reverted my changes to the article Flag of Sweden, claiming that it was consistently written in American English. This, however, is not really true, as there are a number of other words still in British English. I'm not sure why somebody has given it a number of American spellings, as it was originally written in BE, but the spelling was many years ago restored according to British conventions. Fomalhaut76 (talk) 20:56, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Never claimed it was consistently AE. Just noted that it wasn't consistent before your edit or, indeed, afterwards. And if you're wondering why people have "given it a number of American spellings", well, that's because a sizeable percentage of users actually use American English. Many of those happen to be Swedish-speakers.
Peter Isotalo 21:35, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Sci-Fi SKANE[edit]

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The article Sci-Fi SKANE has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Band with questionable notability, the Swedish wiki is even more empty then this one

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Wgolf (talk) 23:27, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Swedish words only, in English text?[edit]

Hello Peter! Just to let you know as cordially as I can: I 've spent a lot of time and trouble in years past providing sources for valid English exonyms in many articles, after learning the hard way how important it is to provide such sources reliably. If you start removing them at large, we're headed for a huge bruhaha. Please don't! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:27, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Line of Battle[edit]

For the record, "line of battle" is a tactic in which you sail multiple ships-of-the-line in a line. Firing a broadside is not the same thing as a line of battle. How do single frigates engage each other and fire broadsides (using their broadside armament) at each other if they must be in a line of battle? Frigates can't even stand in a line of battle; they'd be slaughtered. And there were many, many more frigate-on-frigate single ship actions than there were fleet actions involving a line of battle. So, firing a broadside is a tactic. It is exactly analogous to firing a volley, and it is not the same as a line of battle, which is a way of organizing your ships to allow them to fire their individual broadsides more effectively. Firing a broadside is a single regiment being ordered by its colonel to fire a volley. A line of battle is a general arraying his many regiments across the battlefield, so they can all fire volleys at the enemy. Related, but two completely different levels of tactics.

That's your own take on things. You ought to read up on descriptions of broadsides in the literature. It's pretty essential per WP:V. And it's not described as a tactic in broadside. I recommend consulting N.A.M. Rodger's works on broadside gunnery. Some of it is cited in sailing ship tactics.
Peter Isotalo 19:18, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Help/input?[edit]

Hi Peter! Since I don't know a lot of other people around here these days, I've come to one of the few I still know, value and trust (you) for some input. Would you mind taking a look at Template talk:Largest cities of Sweden? – Elisson • T • C • 23:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Hey there little Elizilla! bishzilla ROARR!! 17:51, 21 May 2015 (UTC).
Hey, hey, hey! You are the other one of the two that my make up my "few"! :) – Elisson • T • C • 21:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Nice to see that you're still active, Johan. I won't really return to any sort of normal level of Wikipedia activity until later this Fall (at the earliest), but you're always welcome to drop me a note if you need help with specifics.
Peter Isotalo 17:12, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Hen (pronoun)[edit]

Hello. I'd like to point out that in English "intended to replace" implies that there's some kind of decision behind it, and that a change is more or less inevitable. Which isn't the case here since it's only a proposal made by a limited number of people, with no wide support among the users. Making a switch within our lifetime highly improbable. So my edit is correct, and I suggest that you self-revert. Thomas.W talk 20:57, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

The article says absolutely nothing about "more or less inevitable" and explains the current situation in some detail. You're drawing your own conclusions without taking into account the entire lead (or the rest of the article). Please suggest more constructive changes. And above all, don't introduce pure weasel wording like "proposed by some".
Peter Isotalo 21:13, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
You don't seem to understand what I wrote. The term "intended to replace" implies that there's a decision behind it, such as "Company A intends to replace product B with new improved product C" meaning that they have decided to do so. So the closest Swedish equivalent would be "kommer att ersätta", and not "är föreslagen att ersätta". And since in this case the second Swedish phrase is closer to the truth than the first phrase using "intended to replace" in the lede of the article is wrong. Thomas.W talk 21:42, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
The wording has changed.[4] Take it to talk:hen (pronoun) if you're still unhappy about it.
Peter Isotalo 21:51, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Per Holknekt[edit]

Please take a look at the article Per Holknekt that I have created. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:37, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Precious again[edit]

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

ships, language and cuisine in history
Thank you, Peter, for using your advanced language skills for quality articles on history, such as Kronan, Swedish language and Medieval cuisine, for fighting vandalism and raising understanding for the Swedish Wikipedia, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:57, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 895th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Two years ago, you were recipient no. 895 of Precious, a prize of QAI! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library needs you![edit]

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Send on behalf of The Wikipedia Library using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:31, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Tunisian Arabic[edit]

Dear User,

Tunisian Arabic is nominated for GA Status. Please review this work and adjust it if it involves several deficiencies.

Yours Sincerely,

--Csisc (talk) 18:28, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Dear User,
Please verify if the Domains of Use part is adjusted.
Yours Sincerely,
--Csisc (talk) 11:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

What do you think about "80,000 speakers" of Scanian?[edit]

I have an ongoing controverse (now with user "Boeing 720") about the number of people speaking the Scanian dialect in Sweden. The number "80,000" is mentioned in the article Scanian dialect. I have several times tried to remove this, as I think it has no value. But it always put back. This comes from an old version of Ethnologue. But they have removed it from newer versions. I think this a very doubtful information. Do you have any theories about the original source for these "80,000 speakers"? --Vedum (talk) 21:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


Take a look[edit]

..at the article about Ester Claesson and Lo Kauppi. Thank you.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:58, 25 August 2015 (UTC) ...and at Lars-Åke Wilhelmsson. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:06, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Hemmema TFA !!![edit]

CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN ! --Ettrig (talk) 03:47, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Great article. A wonderful achievement from start to finish.--Ipigott (talk) 06:52, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, everyone. You're all too kind.
Peter Isotalo 12:38, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of “Axel Leijonhufvud”[edit]

Hi, Peter. Could you transcribe the pronunciation of Axel Leijonhufvud? Is it Swedish pronunciation: [ˌaksəl ˈleːijɔnˌhʉːvɵd]? I'm really not so sure about /i/ in there as well as /ɵ/, which, it seems, should be the long vowel /ʉː/ before single consonant graphemes.

As far as I can tell, [ˈaksɛl ˈlɛjɔnˌhʉvːɵ(d)] would be correct. There's not /i/), but as far as I can tell, the short [ʉ] is actually correct. I'm not sure why, but it's probably some sort of exception to the general rule of the long /ʉː/ phoneme. Not sure whether a [ə] is really relevant, though. And the final /d/ is probably often left out.
Peter Isotalo 20:31, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) Apologies for throwing myself into this, but it's a family name where the /i/ is always there, even though it's barely noticeable (you just slide over it on the way from /e/ to /j/), and the /d/ at the end never is left out. Thomas.W talk 20:53, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
The /d/ is certainly debatable, but a /ij/-combination is simply not feasible in the realms of Swedish phonology. It's an orthographic remnant of the modern word lejon. I have no source to back this up with, but I challenge anyone who claims the spelling has any bearing on this to find a recording where lejon is pronounced differently than in Leijonhufvud.
Peter Isotalo 21:43, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
To underscore my point, here are videos with pronunciations:
Peter Isotalo 21:52, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
It's a family name, and as such traditionally pronounced "clearer" than the noun "lejonhuvud" (which is why I pointed out that it is a family name...). I only took a quick look at the videos but I didn't see/hear her pronounce her name herself, which would have been interesting, since the ones with that family name that I have met have pronounced their own family name the way I described above. Thomas.W talk 22:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, well you let you let me know when you find that elusive recording that proves your point. It seems like a classic example of spelling influencing perceptions about phonology. It's pretty much the same as with native speakers of German insisting that Rad and Rat are pronounced differently.
Peter Isotalo 23:17, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
The video with "Årets jurist" was interesting, illustrating the difference between the sloppy colloquial "Mälardal-Swedish" of the interviewer and the "educated upper-class Swedish" of the interviewee. Your pronounciation of "Leijonhufvud" seems to be closer to the former while my pronounciation of the name is closer to the latter... Thomas.W talk 06:42, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Oh, what an unexpected debate. Thank you, Peter and Thomas! Here is another pronunciation I found: [8] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.222.78.183 (talk) 06:12, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
That's the correct pronounciation of the name, "sliding" over the /i/ and with the /d/ at the end. Thomas.W talk 06:49, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
I guess this book [9], which, it seems, is difficult to find, may give an answer on how to pronounce "lejon" and thus tell us about the surname, too. But that only will be true if the old orthographic variant "leijon" and "lejon" are to be pronunced the same. I definitely hear an /i/, a fleeting, short one, and to me it seems that the ⟨e⟩ of the surname is a close vowel and long. It's confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.223.46.221 (talk) 13:33, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
I'm not a linguist but I would describe the /ei/ in Leijonhufvud as a dipthong where a long /e/ (pronounced as /e/ in English "end", but long) seamlessly becomes a very short /i/ (pronounced as /e/ in English "evil" but very short). If that even makes sense... Thomas.W talk 13:57, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
You two are just speculating here. There's no reason to believe it would be pronounced differently just because of the archaic spelling. There are likely a few who might insist that af or hufvud should be pronounced with an [f], too. Find pronunciations of lejon and try to pinpoint the difference. I doubt you'll succeed.
What you describe here simply doesn't match with how Swedish phonology works. And the phenomenon is so subtle that it's more likely to be in your heads.
Peter Isotalo 16:01, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Nope, it's not in our heads, and it's not just how "Leijon" in Leijonhufvud is pronounced but also how "lejon" is pronounced, with a subtle /ei/ diphtong, at least in "educated Swedish". Regardless of what Swedish phonology says. Thomas.W talk 16:41, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Thomas, if any of this is the case, it's an extremely narrow phonetic transcription. Which is basically WP:OR. It would also mean that it's regional or sociolectal. Help:IPA for Swedish is intentionally made to be as neutral as possible.
Note that Leijonhufvud speaks Central Standard Swedish, just not the same variant as the "sloppy" interviewer. She might not be born and raised in Stockholm (I can't find any bio info), but she certainly speaks the form of Standard Swedish that is based on the dialects spoken around the capital. That's what most Swedish news anchors speak and is the regional variant that is often considered to be rikssvenska, even though Swedish linguists never use that term. For example, she says /e:/ for är, she has the same basic prosody as the interviewer (the tone curve in two-syllable accent 2-words are a dead giveaway) and she lowers her /ö/s before /r/; all typical of the Greater Stockholm region (and Uppsala). Your ideas about the "sloppy colloquial" nature of how the interviewers speech is based on prejudices of finsvenska. There are no geographically neutral forms of Swedish. Period.
Peter Isotalo 17:27, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
No, I'm not speculating about anything. I'm sure someone can run the Forvo pronunciation through a speech-analysis program and demonstrate that there is a diphthong involved. I implied nothing of what you inferred. Actually, you inferred the opposite of what I said, and I said that the Swedish pronunciation dictionary will probably agree with you, that "leijon" and "lejon" are to be pronounced the same. However, I did intend to but didn't until now say to Thomas that now the problem is to find a book on Swedish phonology that will say that the /eːi̯/ diphthong exists in Swedish and that it's phonemic. Or at least an allophone of a phoneme. I never intended for this /eːi̯/ pronunciation of "leijon" to be entered into the Wikipedia article.
By the way, the Wiktionary entry for "hufvud" points to "huvud" and then says that it's pronounced ˈhʉːˌvɵd. I kind of think that that secondary-stress mark is not necessary. It's strange that the earlier spelling in your view, Peter, has a geminate v (because, probably, /f gets assimilated into v and then you get a doubled sound), yet the earlier spelling doesn't affect how "leijon" is pronounced. And one more thing: so the surname translates as "lionhead"? That is so funny. I never knew such surnames existed in Swedish. Fun.

Gimbap[edit]

Hi, Peter Isotalo. There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Gimbap#Terms norimaki and gimbap. I would appreciate your comment. Thank you.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 05:57, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

What the source[10] says is described in the quote[11]. BlackRanger88's comment is false.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 22:16, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
I don't want to start a huge comment thread on your talk page, and would rather keep this conversation confined to the talk page of the article in question, but Phoenix's claim is just flat out not included in the source. I would ask that they cite the exact part of the source that says, "Gimbap was originally called norimaki" or "Norimaki was the original name of gimbap" or something along those lines. If not, the current wording is simply their interpretation and is unfit for inclusion in the article. I have a full explanation, as well as a compromise suggestion on the talk page. Thanks. BlackRanger88 (talk) 01:13, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Enough gimbap discussion here, please. I watchlist stuff for a reason.
Peter Isotalo 02:36, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Lucazin[edit]

Who is this Lucazin person? The quality of the work makes it look like they are a linguist. But I cannot find any mentions of the name anywhere online except related to the document itself. What is your impression of the accuracy? And what do you think is the source of the data? The dialect described is certainly very far from standard Swedish.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 22:07, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

maunus, Seems like a couple interested in Scanian culture.[12][13] Other than that, I have no idea. It's certainly a very ambitious work. Besides that, it is most likely based on previous research. There's a bibliography but not a single citation, so it's difficult to trace. If you look closer at some of the descriptions of geographic variations, there are references to places like "Vemmenhögs h:d" (Vemmenhög hundred). As an administrative unit, the hundred ceased having any official function in 1971 when the modern district court took over the role of the old häradsrätt. It seems like much older studies have been used here. There are descriptions of very exotic pronunciations of works like mög [mø:dʑ]. To me, it's an indication that it describe dialects that may have been spoken 50 or 100 years ago, but that today is either extremely rare or extinct.
One reason that I'm so skeptical about all of the Scanian debate is the lack of any audio samples of a traditional Scanian dialect. Here[14] are recordings of people from various parts of Scania collected 1998-2000. Several linguistic departments from three universities were part of the project, but none of the samples from Scania match what's described as a traditional dialect. All of it is quite easily understood by a Standard Swedish speaker like myself. There are some specific dialectal words and the distinct Scanian pronunciation (diphthongs, prosody, etc.), but none of the major differences in grammar, syntax or phonology that you'd expect. If you listen to speakers from Österbotten[15] in Finland, you'll hear something that is very different from Standard Swedish. That dialect is genuinely difficult to parse, even for a language nerd like myself. It's mostly phonology, but you can spot a lot of unique noun morphology and whatnot. This is even more true of recordings from Älvdalen.[16] But that appears to be Elfdalian.
If this dialect still exists, there ought to be at least a few dialect samples out there, as well as some linguistic studies.
Peter Isotalo 19:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, that seems like something that should be possible to find. Btw. I found this evaluation by another expert in Scanian.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 21:01, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
That's the blog of Malte Lewan, the chairman of Stiftelsen Skånsk Framtid.[17] It's the same organization that campaigned to make Scanian an official minority language. They're the ones promoting the idea of a "Greater" Scanian. This is not a theory that doesn't seem to be recognized by any professional linguists. You can find a description of this in Hallberg, p. 25.[18]
Peter Isotalo 01:03, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I browsed Lewan's blogg and found this[19] entry that is critical to, Ola Svensson, the head of Dialekt- och ortsnamnsarkivet i Lund because he considers the idea of Scanian as a separate language to be politically motivated. The archive was unfortunately closed a while ago, but it was part of the Institute for Language and Folklore. I found this[20] article from them regarding the status of Scanian.
Peter Isotalo 01:32, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Of course it is politically motivated, that doesnt mean it doesnt make sense. The comments from these people look like comments from people who have first hand experience with these dialects - as he says about Lucazin their parents might have been speakers or they themselves grew up speaking these varieties. I think claiming that these dialect forms are made up is a big claim. This is something some linguist should look into.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 01:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
No one has claimed this is made up. There's just no indication that these dialects actually exist anymore. Their comments and conclusions could just as well be a synthesis of much older language studies combined with quite limited experience of traditional dialects. There is simply no reliable third-party confirmation.
As for linguists, read Hallberg's article and look at Svensson's comment. They criticize both the political campaigning and point out that the regionalists make a lot of faulty assumptions. If you're interested in getting an overview of sources (other than those already listed by Lucazin), contact the Institute for Language and Folklore[21] or the linguistic departments at the universities in Lund, Stockholm, Malmö or Gothenburg.
Peter Isotalo 02:01, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

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Article upgrade assistance request (Pre-translation stage)[edit]

Seasons Greetings,

This is in reference to a relatively new umbrella article on en-wikipedia named Ceremonial pole. Ceremonial pole is a human tradition since ancient times; either existed in past at some point of time, or still exists in some cultures across global continents from north to south & from east to west. Ceremonial poles are used to symbolize a variety of concepts in several different world cultures.

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While Ceremonial poles have a long past and strong presence but usually less discussed subject. Even before we seek translation of this article in global languages, we need to have more encyclopedic information/input about Ceremonial poles from all global cultures and languages. And we seek your assistance in the same.

Since other contributors to the article are insisting for reliable sources and Standard native english; If your contributions get deleted (for some reason like linguistics or may be your information is reliable but unfortunately dosent match expectations of other editors) , please do list the same on Talk:Ceremonial pole page so that other wikipedians may help improve by interlanguage collaborations, and/or some other language wikipedias may be interested in giving more importance to reliablity of information over other factors on their respective wikipedia.

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Thanking you with warm regards Mahitgar (talk) 06:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

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TAFI[edit]

If you want to, take a look at the article about Marie Serneholt which is this weeks TAFI article. Regards.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:09, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

November 2015 newsletter[edit]

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Swedish language[edit]

Hello. In September 2014, you added the reference "Andersson 2002" to Swedish language but never defined the reference.[22] If you can, please add it to the reference list. Thanks. DrKay (talk) 19:12, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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tons[edit]

Could you please tell me (at Talk:Burj Khalifa, not here) what sort of clarification you'd like to see on the statement about tons of refrigeration? Kendall-K1 (talk) 12:38, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation recordings[edit]

Did you make all those recordings of the consonants on Wikipedia? They helped me out a lot. You do fine work!

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Best wishes for the holidays...[edit]

Förintelsens minnesdag på Raoul Wallenbergs torg.jpg
Eugène Galien-Laloue Paris Porte Saint-Martin.jpg Season's Greetings
Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Some patenterad nonsens i julklapp! Hafspajen (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Best wishes to you too, Hafs!
Peter Isotalo 15:03, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Tack! Harruläst nonsensen? Hafspajen (talk) 15:05, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Det man vinner i potatis förlorar man i näring. Vad menas med det? Jo, om man har en rund potatis som ska flyttas från golvet upp på ett bord krävs en viss kraft för att få upp potatisen på bordet, du förlorar näring. Om man istället lägger ut en lång planka och rullar upp potatisen på bordet går det åt mindre näring. Nackdelen är bara att det blir längre väg för stenen; det man vinner i potatis förlorar man i näring...' Hafspajen (talk) 15:06, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

2016[edit]

Happy New Year .jpg
Happy New Year 2016!
Did you know ... that back in 1885, Wikipedia editors wrote Good Articles with axes, hammers and chisels?

Thank you for your contributions to this encyclopedia using 21st century technology. I hope you don't get any unneccessary blisters.
   – Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:30, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:ANI#User:Wikibreaking personal attacks and WP:FORUMSHOP[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

I would appreciate if you could comment there. Thanks, ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 04:46, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Searching for an expression[edit]

Hi Peter, I'm working on Moa Martinson and this also involves mentioning the doings of her second husband Harry Martinson, sailor and hobo before he became a Nobel laureate. Do you know if there is a corresponding English expression for "att ta hyra på en båt"? There are the usual "working on a ship", "he was taken on as a deck hand", maybe even "enlisted on" if it's a military vessel (enrolled??) but the expression for "going aboard and doing paid work on a commercial ship" eludes me. Translating "Han hade tagit hyra på ett fartyg till Rotterdam", I could use "He worked on a ship going to Rotterdam" but that implies that he worked there all the time and they usually took the jobs for just one trip at the time, or "He signed on a ship bound for Rotterdam" but I don't know if that's an accurate translation. I have tried all the usual translation sites, nothing. It seems like the expression may be unique for Sweden. Or? (also 'ping' @Philg88: if he has any clue) Best, w.carter-Talk 09:11, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

My two kronas' worth: "worked his passage from [wherever] to [wherever] aboard the [whatever ship]".  Philg88 talk 09:37, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
carter, I'm not familiar with term from before, but when I looked up the verb hyra in SAOB, definition 1 is "to hire someone for labor or a service)[23] and even has a specific nautical use. In the phrase "ta hyra" I believe it just means means "take up a position". It certainly seems to fit in this context.
Peter Isotalo 16:17, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion, Peter. To "ta hyra" is a very common expression in Swe nautical contexts and in songs like those by Evert Taube. It's even used in the sv-wiki article about him. So I just assumed there was a corresponding term in English. Since you have written some articles about ships, you were the obvious editor to ask. I'll keep digging. Thanks again, w.carter-Talk 16:31, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

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Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter – March 2016[edit]

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This day's This Special Day's article for improvement (day 1, month 4, 2016)[edit]

Skvader - Tetrao lepus pseudo-hybridus rarissimus in the wild at Örnsköldsvik
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Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter – April 2016[edit]

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Standard Mandarin language listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

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ɕ vs. ʃ[edit]

I'm writing about your pronounciation of two particular cosonants, voiceless palato-alveolar sibilant /ʃ/ and voiceless alveolo-palatal sibilant /ɕ/. Second one appears in both Polish and Swedish, but the first one is simple English sh like in shark or sheep. For me both of those pronounciation sound like /ɕ/. Someone tried to record and upload his own version but was reversed. I'm not sure if it was right think to do. What do you think? Arvedui89 (talk) 18:11, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

The two sounds are very similar. That's not uncommon among these kinds of sibilants. Going by "I don't think it sounds right" is a really difficult argument because it's entirely subjective. If we disagree about this, we should compare with recordings and analyses made by linguists.
Peter Isotalo 09:47, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

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Thank you for supporting our editathons[edit]

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Thank you for contributing to our June 2016 editathons
There were over 350 articles on Women in Entertainment,
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Much oblige!
Peter Isotalo 03:10, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Cute grey kitten.jpg

[24] Reconsider?

GRuban (talk) 21:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the kitty, but no. I'm trying really hard to focus on expressing my femimism as a male Wikipedian through improvement of article space and pragmatic solutions. GGTF doesn't seem to be a useful forum in this regard. The minor quibbles over ideology are fairly tiresome. The real deal-breaker, though, is the constant stream of negative nitpicking from talkpage stalkers who have massive bugs up their butts about every imaginable practical expression of gender equality. There's always some unrelated principle to defend. Bloody pointless debates over and over.
Peter Isotalo 22:26, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
On one hand, I have sympathy for the "pointless debates" complaint. On the other hand, I think Sarah's "not a feminist" comment wasn't meant the way it sounded -- GRuban was pretty snarky about "feminist sex wars" and she was trying to point out that you didn't fit the stereotype -- at least that's the way I read it. That said, GGTF is kind of a black hole of pointless debates. At any rate, I am over here to say that I think your raising of the issue has been a generally good thing and I am glad that you are trying to do positive work in this area. Better spots are to just edit the articles (I noticed "whale tail" and tried to remove the too-many-pictured situation there, only to get immediate pushback) and post a notification-only link for the ones where there is a need for more editors at relevant talk pages such as, for example, WikiProject Women, WikiProject Feminism, or some of their "child" projects. Or just ping me; I have about 300 talk page watchers. (LOL) Montanabw(talk) 23:26, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the support, Montana. I'll keep your talkpage hint in mind.
I had a look at whale tail. I think you're right about that one. There is really not much point of having more than one image of the actual thing. I'll drop a comment on the talkpage about it.
Pushback is to be expected, though. There's a lot of principled resistance to image removal and there doesn't seem to be much understanding of neutrality in presentation of imagery. It's not just a problem with images of women btw. We have way too many purely decorative images in article space and the critical appraisal of imagery seems pretty underdeveloped.
Persistence and a lot of pragmatism is pretty much required. There are a lot of very good arguments against women-as-eye-candy pics that don't require ideological discussions, though.
Peter Isotalo 08:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Oh, I used to run into a variant all the time on the horse breed articles when people wanted to add every "pretty pony picture" in commons. WP:NOTGALLERY is quite helpful. Montanabw(talk) 23:06, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

The WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter (August 2016)[edit]

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