User talk:Proteus

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talk:Spencer family[edit]

I have added a further question there under the heading "lineage question", and I was told you could be of help with all this stuff. I hope you can be of any help. Thank you very much.
VM (talk) 13:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Baron Sandys[edit]

Hello, nice to see that you're back. I have a couple of questions I think you could help me with. What names did the second and third Barons Sandys use (Moyses and Marcus, I believe although I don't have any sources). They also had a younger brother named Lord Arthur Augustus Edwin Hill (known as Augustus?). Can you also confirm that it was the third Baron who served as Comptroller of the Household and Treasurer of the Household in the 1840's and 1850's (as stated here). According to these Wikipedia articles, Whig Government 1835–1841, Whig Government 1846–1852 and Arthur Hill-Trevor, 1st Baron Trevor (as well as the two articles above), it was his nephew Lord Trevor who held these posts, but I think they are wrong (he wasn't an MP in 1841 for a start). Tryde (talk) 19:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. But did the second Baron Sandys use the same first name as his elder brother, the Marquess of Downshire? Tryde (talk) 12:18, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
I used all his first names in the article I created on him. If we don't have a source that explicitely say what name he used, I think it's best to include all of them. I'm also going to add this discussion to the article's talk page. By the way, I was surprised that you moved Frederick John Robinson, 1st Viscount Goderich to Frederick Robinson, 1st Viscount Goderich. I have always thought he was known as F. J. Robinson before he was created a viscount. Tryde (talk) 05:38, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Alan Sugar[edit]

Who is "we"? Bradley0110 (talk) 10:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


Hey, I've replied to your reply to my comments at Talk:Order of precedence in England and Wales. john k (talk) 02:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Tom Denning[edit]

This needs to be reverted. Firstly, his most common name was simply Lord Denning, but secondly MOSTCOMMON specifically excludes people with peerages, who should go at the most appropriate title per MOS naming guidelines for peers (which is actually wrong in regards to how it's done irl, but meh). I was ignorant of this fact until a few months ago, when an attempted move by me was queried by a user citing the same thing. As per WP:MOSTCOMMON "The principal exception is in the case of naming royalty and people with titles". Ironholds (talk) 21:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Proteus - as you seem to be offline Ironholds contacted me. I listed the matter at AN/I for review and to get consensus to over-turn. Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Odd_page_move_by_admin_-_support_for_reversion_sought. I hate go against you but you don't seem to be around to present your case. Cheers Manning (talk) 12:53, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Actually, "Lord Denning MR." is how he is known in the law reports and quoted throughout the common law world.

I happen to have your talkpage on my watchlist and I couldn't help noticing Masalai's comments which seem to be personal attacks. You can always report them on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. Surtsicna (talk) 11:26, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


Information.pngHi Proteus! An article you have been involved with has been tagged as being in need of further sources to avoid being deleted. If you can help with these issues please see Talk:Double-barrelled name.

Declining a British honour[edit]

Hi, Proteus. I added a couple of names to the article (R. A. Butler, 3rd Marquess of Lansdowne). I know that Charles Pelham Villiers declined a peerage in 1885 or 1886. Do you know what kind of peerage he was offered (a barony or more likely a viscountcy, I presume)? Tryde (talk) 18:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs[edit]

Information.svg Hello Proteus! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 3 of the articles that you created are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 2,718 article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the list:

  1. Peter Inge - Find sources: "Peter Inge" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · HighBeam · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · The Wikipedia Library · NYT · WP reference
  2. Susan of Mar, Mistress of Mar - Find sources: "Susan of Mar, Mistress of Mar" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · HighBeam · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · The Wikipedia Library · NYT · WP reference
  3. Charles Morris (politician) - Find sources: "Charles Morris (politician)" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · HighBeam · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · The Wikipedia Library · NYT · WP reference

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom GA review[edit]

A review to see if Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom meets Wikipedia:Good article criteria has started, and has been put on hold. Suggestions for improvement are at Talk:Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom/GA2, and are mainly to do with coverage and neutrality, and building the lead section. Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom is one of our most high profile and popular articles, attracting an average of over 11,000 readers every day. You have made more than 30 edits to the article, and so you might be interested in helping to make the improvements needed to get it listed as a Good Article. SilkTork *YES! 12:43, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

You are back![edit]

Dear lady, how wonderful that you are again with us! Your old folks' home has internet access? In any case, long may you persist! Masalai (talk) 13:08, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


Per che the reverts? The Marquis of xxx is the standard spelling in Scotland for Peers of this rank, and the correct manner to address them is Marquis in Standard Scottish English. The Marquis of Huntly being the oldest of this rank extant in the Peerage of Scotland. English Marqu-es-ses may differ but these are, after all, Scottish Peerages you are looking at here. (BTW a quick google reveals 17,600,000 for the Scots spelling, as opposed to 1.3m for the English, and I know that they don't all refer to peers, but there you go!) see here Brendandh (talk) 19:58, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Orders, Decorations and Medals of the United Kingdom[edit]

G'day Proteus,

I've become involved in a discussion re the future content of Orders, decorations, and medals of the United Kingdom. I am interested in your thoughts on my and Wiki-Ed's views on this (see Talk:Orders, decorations, and medals of the United Kingdom. If you are unwilling to comment on the article's talk page, I would be just as happy to correspond here. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 15:56, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Viscount Wenman[edit]

Hi. I know that you have access to some good sources and perhaps you could help me here. Was it the 2nd or 3rd viscount Wenman who sat in parliament for Oxfordshire in 1660? Was the 3rd viscount an MP at all? And how were the 2nd and 3rd viscounts related - brothers? Regards, Tryde (talk) 12:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

you're invited[edit]

Based on your contributions to wikipedia related to history, genealogy, and nobility, you may find these 2 articles and debates interesting. Both articles are related, need to be improved, and might benefit from your insight.



ReidarM (talk) 12:34, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Baron Latymer and Baron Latimer[edit]

You made this comment on Talk:Baron Latimer please could you expand on your reply here? -- PBS (talk) 10:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Shaftesbury heir[edit]

The recent addition made to the Earl of Shaftesbury needs a full citation. At this time, the content referring to an heir is unverifiable. While the birth may be true, it needs appropriate sourcing. I have asked Dinah to make a notation to the estate website. At that time, we can add use that source. Can you add a full citation from The Times to support the addition to the article? Cind.amuse 02:21, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

  • You provided an edit summary to the Earl of Shaftesbury article that states that "there isn't a fuller citation". Everything can be appropriately cited. To that end, I have provided the citation format within the article. Can you provide the name of the editor along with the page number of the Announcement? Simply add this information as indicated in the template. Your assistance is appreciated. Best regards, Cind.amuse 11:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Proteus! Thank you for correcting my lapsus calami in the infobox in the article about Jamila M'Barek. I was wondering, isn't she still "The Right Honourable the Countess of Shaftesbury" (since neither of her stepsons is/was married)? If she is, should we omit her name from the infobox? Surtsicna (talk) 12:16, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Marquess of Halifax/Savile Baronets[edit]

You were involved in this page being moved a while ago;
It has been moved again, and the discussion is here if you wish to comment. Swanny18 (talk) 16:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Earl of Cambridge[edit]

If you look at the citation for Balfour Paul Vol IV, p383, it leads one to an online Scots Peerage, dating from 1907. P383 clearly stipulates that the 4th Duke's mother, Anne Duchess of Hamilton surrendered her titles to the crown to be regranted to her son. This happened prior to the political union of 1707, and the creation of the peerage of GB. Therefore the Earldom of Cambridge and the Barony of Innerdale stand in the peerage of England. The Duke also was also granted his Great-Uncle's title of Earl of Lanark in the peerage of Scotland. Hope this clears things up? Brendandh (talk) 15:14, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Sir James Balfour Paul was one of the longest standing Lord Lyons of Scotland, and I would be more inclined to follow him than Cokayne.(that with respect to Clarenceaux) Brendandh (talk) 01:26, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Earl of Shaftesbury[edit]

You restored the inclusion of Anthony Ashley-Cooper, Lord Ashley (1900-1947) to the list of earls in the above referenced article, stating "usual to list heirs who never succeeded amongst holders". However, this is not standard practice, in accordance with either WP:MOS or WP:PEER. In fact, if they were heirs, they would have inherited the title. For example, Anthony Ashley-Cooper, Lord Ashley (1900-1947) was not an heir. I've reverted your addition to the list of Earls of Shaftesbury, since he was not in fact, either an earl or an heir. I'm puzzled why you would add him to the list. It's like that old Sesame Street song, "One of these things is not like the other one." If you seriously thought it was appropriate to add him to the list, why did you limit yourself to only adding the one individual? In all things, if you want to include the lords in the article, I would suggest either creating a separate list, or renaming the section to reflect the appropriate content within the list, i.e., Earls and Lords. To include the lords, establishes the current section heading as misleading. It would also be appropriate if you were going in this direction, to include all apparent heirs, rather than just the one. At the end of it all, the inclusion in the list of earls is not in compliance with either WP:MOS or WP:PEER. Best regards, Cind.amuse 08:04, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Wessex children NPOV[edit]

Hullo there. I have opened a new discussion about the styling of HRH The Earl of Wessex's children: here because their articles are currently in violation of the NPOV policy. Do please drop by and have your say (and feel free to pass on the word to other concerned parties!) ✝DBD 21:58, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


Hey, why did you just revert this? [1] Thanks, [stwalkerster|talk] 21:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi I have asked this to be changed because it is the incorrect spelling.

You have changed this back to the original which spells 'Ramsay MacDonald' please not that this is wrong and it should read 'Ramsey Macdonald' Thank You Jam.lawson (talk) 19:47, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

"The sources seem to suggest that "MacDonald" is correct. Do you have a source that says "Macdonald" is? Proteus (Talk) 21:03, 29 May 2011 (UTC)"
He is a descendant of my family, and in my family tree it is spelt as Macdonald. Some places spell it as MacDonald but other Macdonald, people in my family spell it Macdonald, this might be the same in his case.
Thanks Jam.lawson (talk) 21:37, 29 May 2011 (UTC)


[2]. Kittybrewster 10:26, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Mary Boleyn[edit]

Hello, Proteus. An edit war seems to be developing over whether the lead should refer to her as 'Lady Mary Boleyn', I was interested in your opinion? Thanks,Boleyn (talk) 09:51, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


"Gardstein" is a Latvian name, according to you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Earls of Desmond: numbering[edit]

Hi Proteus, I see a few years back (6 years ago this month, gasp) you were involved in a debate (at Talk:Gerald FitzGerald, 15th Earl of Desmond) on renumbering some of the Earls of Desmond according to the published sources available. I've gone through some of the public domain sources that have become available since and created a proposal (or three) on how the numbering might be changed, it'd be great if you could take a look and see what your preferred option would be.

The discussion is on Talk:Earl_of_Desmond. KerryMuso (talk) 16:46, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


See the exceptions to the common naming rule; given that this is the third time you've tried to move it to the incorrect title, could you perhaps take the hint? ;p Ironholds (talk) 16:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Jimbo wants to delete your work[edit]

Hi Proteus. I see that you originally added this material a year ago. Now Jimbo himself suggests it be deleted as unsourced. I have to say that I cannot easily find support for this material in the reference you cited, and for all I can tell it may be WP:SYNTH at best. But I want to make sure you know about this so that you can provide a clear source if one exists. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 03:25, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

MSU Interview[edit]

Dear Proteus,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, where it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

  • Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
  • Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
  • All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
  • All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
  • The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.


Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 07:26, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Young June Sah --Yjune.sah (talk) 03:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Baronets of first creation[edit]

A baronet of first creation must swear an oath of allegiance under the Promissory Oaths Act 1868 s 14(5). Is this still the case? Kittybrewster 15:59, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Andrew Lloyd Webber[edit]

Please can you have a look at the talk page? Kittybrewster 10:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Article moving[edit]

Why did you revert my movings of the Kathleen Kennedy and William Cavendish articles? They had rather long titles and I was making them more concise and easier for people. The whole "___ of Hartington" really isn't needed in their article titles. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 15:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Nicholas Russell, 6th Earl Russell for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Nicholas Russell, 6th Earl Russell is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nicholas Russell, 6th Earl Russell until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Flaming Ferrari (talk) 16:15, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton move request[edit]

Greetings! A proposal has been made at Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton#Requested move 8 to change the title of the article, Hillary Rodham Clinton to Hillary Clinton. This notification is provided to you per Wikipedia:Canvassing#Appropriate notification, because you have previously participated in a discussion on this subject. Cheers! bd2412 T 10:28, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Global account[edit]

Hi Proteus! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Cheers, —DerHexer (Talk) 21:20, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Ada Lovelace[edit]

Hello, Proteus. I note your recent edit to Ada Lovelace. There is a debate on its talk page that might interest you. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:36, 21 April 2015 (UTC).

City of London …city of London?[edit]

Completely agree with your edit and left a note on the editor's talk (trying) to explain why the distinctions are necessary.Pincrete (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Straw poll on the use of The Rt. Hon.[edit]

Hello. I have created a straw poll on whether The Right Honourable should be used in infoboxes for all Barons, Viscounts and Earls or just for Privy Counsellors. The poll is here. I wish that you could give your opinion there and maybe comment. --Editor FIN (talk) 05:25, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)