User talk: RGloucester
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Interview request[edit]
Dear RGloucester
I am part of a research project at the University of Westminster, London that looks at contentious Wikipedia articles and would like to interview you about your Wikipedia work and the issues and intricacies within collaboration practices. We have observed that you are a prominent and decorated contributor within the Wikipedia community, particularly in the War in Donbass article which is one of our key research targets.
This interview would be a part of a research study which analyzes discursive practices in conflict and how it is represented through editing and discussion within controversial Wikipedia articles about on-going wars and international conflicts. To explore this, we would formally like to request a semi-structured research interview regarding your perspectives on contributor relationships, motivations for participation and collaboration practices.
As an experienced and knowledgeable member of the Wikipedia community and a proactive editor in articles of our interest, your contribution would be highly valuable to this project. Please let me know if you have any questions and I hope to hear back from you.
Best regards and thank you in advance.
Etchubykalo (talk) 15:21, 18 September 2018 (UTC), doctoral researcher at the communication and media research institute /CAMRI), University of Westminster, London.
- I'd be happy to oblige. I have spent much time thinking on this very subject...I fear, though, that those who place me in the 'lunatic fringe' box will shake their heads at the thought of my commentary on this matter. RGloucester — ☎ 15:47, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
- My dear RG, you are not, nor have you ever been, anywhere near the edge of the lunatic fringe. That is not to say that the lunatic fringe and assorted disillusioned, disenchanted, and disempowered Wikipedia 'contributors' (I wouldn't deign to qualify them as meeting any criterion worthy of the title 'editor') aren't able to collectively drive one to the point of lunacy... and it's the point of pulling back before one lets loose after constant baiting that is the most difficult to master. You're certainly one of the finest editors it has been my privilege to work with, so I'm chuffed to see that you still check in to this place. I've missed seeing you around, old bean!
- Etchubykalo, as you've extended the same invitation to me and, for what my experience is worth, I'd also be more that happy to contribute to the study. You'll have to bear with me as I've just had a resurgence of a bit of cancer. I only mention this as I'm going through a fresh bought of 'chemo brain' before the last bout had improved and stabilised to a significant degree. In practical terms, it means that I'll need you to be patient as I think on queries, collect my thoughts, establish that I'm even making sense, et al. Quick witted responses I can be confident in have fallen by the wayside. Cheers for now! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 18:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
- How nice of you to drop by, Iryna. I appreciate your kind words. Unfortunately, as much as I try to stay away, I often happen to read Wikipedia articles...and when one reads, one can't help but feel like one should offer one's services to repair the messes and lacks that such articles often contain. As such, I am now writing about melons, of all things...Regardless of such nonsense, I hope for your recovery. RGloucester — ☎ 19:42, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
- Iryna Harpy Thank you very much for your response and for accepting the interview request. I am trying to get a couple of interviews going for next week as I need some time to prepare. In any case, I will adjust to your schedule and needs. I wish you a strong and speedy recovery! RGloucester Those stories about repairing messes is what I wish to hear about! Best regards to both of you. Etchubykalo (talk) 09:29, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
- How nice of you to drop by, Iryna. I appreciate your kind words. Unfortunately, as much as I try to stay away, I often happen to read Wikipedia articles...and when one reads, one can't help but feel like one should offer one's services to repair the messes and lacks that such articles often contain. As such, I am now writing about melons, of all things...Regardless of such nonsense, I hope for your recovery. RGloucester — ☎ 19:42, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Hey, R, did you do the interview? I bet you had good stories to tell! Including some where we were on opposing sides. Shit goes on. I'll be in London/Oxford this week; you around there? Dicklyon (talk) 14:45, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I offered my tuppence to the world. I'm afraid our past interactions were not related to the content of the interview, which was primarily about Wikipedia documentation of ongoing military conflicts. In any case, I doubt that it will make much difference...rationality is lost in this enterprise. It's a haven for special interests, advocates, manipulators. Wikipedia policy and guidelines, our supposed bedrock, are thrown out and twisted as if they were meaningless. In as much as we have no commons rules on which to predicate our participation in this project, how can we create a coherent narrative, a comprehensible font of information? Why do we allow the egos of individual editors to compromise information which will then be beamed out to millions of people, who are likely to absorb their misrepresentations as if they were fact? In the end, this project finds itself serving as a soapbox for various people who have opinions they want proliferated, and nothing more. Enough is enough. I wish these people thought about what harm they are doing our readers, and this world, by creating original opinion-based content with no roots in reliable sources, and then presenting it in Wikipedia's voice as if it were fact. It is shameful. As for me, Mr Lyon, I presently reside in the northeast of America, where I am doing my PhD...you can glean this from my editing times. RGloucester — ☎ 15:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, of course people with opinions want to use whatever platform they can; it is not surprising that their interest is not in neutrally informing readers, which is the foundation's goal. Anything with conflict is going to involve one side doing a better job than the other in getting their POV represented. To me, one of the weirdest is how the big med/pharma industry controls content through things like WP:MEDRS, such that it's impossible to say anything good, or even neutral, about alternatives. Dicklyon (talk) 17:00, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I offered my tuppence to the world. I'm afraid our past interactions were not related to the content of the interview, which was primarily about Wikipedia documentation of ongoing military conflicts. In any case, I doubt that it will make much difference...rationality is lost in this enterprise. It's a haven for special interests, advocates, manipulators. Wikipedia policy and guidelines, our supposed bedrock, are thrown out and twisted as if they were meaningless. In as much as we have no commons rules on which to predicate our participation in this project, how can we create a coherent narrative, a comprehensible font of information? Why do we allow the egos of individual editors to compromise information which will then be beamed out to millions of people, who are likely to absorb their misrepresentations as if they were fact? In the end, this project finds itself serving as a soapbox for various people who have opinions they want proliferated, and nothing more. Enough is enough. I wish these people thought about what harm they are doing our readers, and this world, by creating original opinion-based content with no roots in reliable sources, and then presenting it in Wikipedia's voice as if it were fact. It is shameful. As for me, Mr Lyon, I presently reside in the northeast of America, where I am doing my PhD...you can glean this from my editing times. RGloucester — ☎ 15:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image File:Tambourhinoceros.jpg[edit]
Thanks for uploading File:Tambourhinoceros.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 05:10, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Talkback[edit]
Message added 13:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Just wanted to let you know that I have now modified the proposal based on your feedback. so wanted to have your fresh opinion. DBigXrayᗙ 13:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Recent MOS question[edit]
I was impressed with your detective work in locating the edit that led to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Possessive of "United States". Can you tell me in detail how you went about it? Thanks. Jmar67 (talk) 21:18, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
- I simply looked at your contributions. In future, I recommend providing a specific example when asking an MoS question. RGloucester — ☎ 21:36, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
- I would have but I didn't know how (relatively new). What steps did you follow to produce the link? Jmar67 (talk) 07:01, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- Whilst you're on a user's user page or talk page, look to the left. There will be a button, under the heading 'tools', that says 'user contributions'. If you click on one of the dates you see there, you'll get a link to that revision of a page. You can also see what changed in that revision, by clicking the 'diff' button. RGloucester — ☎ 15:18, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I would have but I didn't know how (relatively new). What steps did you follow to produce the link? Jmar67 (talk) 07:01, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I simply looked at your contributions. In future, I recommend providing a specific example when asking an MoS question. RGloucester — ☎ 21:36, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
Automobiles[edit]
If I understand correctly you have made speeedy requests to rename automobile cats to cars cats? Why all this and why WP:Automobiles hasnt been informed at all for this big changes??? this isnt the right way to edit in Wikipedia -->Typ932 T·C 18:44, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- The article was renamed car four years ago. We just now had a CFD to match the category with the article per policy, and the speedy requests are for sub-cats. Not sure what you're talking about. Projects have no special authority...though I'm positive said project was notified when the change made...again...four years ago. RGloucester — ☎ 19:14, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- "Projects have no special authority" isnt Wikipedia supposed to do in concensus, Wikiprojects are main groups in some editing here, Its just stupid habit to edit articles without any consulting such big groups. There is discussion now and its always better to discuss before making such big changes. One article naming is nothing compared to renaming hundreds of automobile categories, all automobiles are not cars. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#Cars_not_automobiles -->Typ932 T·C 19:57, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- Consensus was attained in the various move discussions. The 'car' move discussion determined that the word automobile and car have exactly the same definition. Lorries, &c., are not automobiles. How do we know this? Because reliable sources, i.e. the OED and similar, say so. Read the discussion. Anyone that's been telling you that 'automobile' has a broader definition has been lying to you. RGloucester — ☎ 21:46, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- "Projects have no special authority" isnt Wikipedia supposed to do in concensus, Wikiprojects are main groups in some editing here, Its just stupid habit to edit articles without any consulting such big groups. There is discussion now and its always better to discuss before making such big changes. One article naming is nothing compared to renaming hundreds of automobile categories, all automobiles are not cars. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#Cars_not_automobiles -->Typ932 T·C 19:57, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- The article was renamed car four years ago. We just now had a CFD to match the category with the article per policy, and the speedy requests are for sub-cats. Not sure what you're talking about. Projects have no special authority...though I'm positive said project was notified when the change made...again...four years ago. RGloucester — ☎ 19:14, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- Could you pls stop naming automobile categories until the discussion is over? thanks, thats not good habit to continue making changes if discussion in still alive -->Typ932 T·C 08:57, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- I have not touched an 'automobile' category since before the discussion started. RGloucester — ☎ 14:29, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Car vs automobile debate[edit]
Hi RGloucster - I know we are on opposite sides of the debate over the Category naming, but I want to check something which could be very useful I believe you may have raised at some point. I couldn't find it in the mass of discussion. Was it a suggestion of yours to put the debate under the requested move format for the Car article? I am really keen to get the matter resolved for all our sakes and this may be a way to move towards ending it. I am thinking that it could be useful to have a summary of both positions at the top of the move request to focus the debate. I would be interested in your thoughts. NealeFamily (talk) 05:29, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- No, it wasn't, but I was involved. See Talk:Car/Naming. RGloucester — ☎ 13:34, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks - do you have any thoughts on using requested move in the Car article to try to resolve this. NealeFamily (talk) 23:38, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- The reality is that the category and the article are meant to be aligned...and have been in the past. But, for now, it's best to see how the CfD turns out, so as to avoid WP:FORUMSHOPPING. The result of the CfD will determine the next course of action. In any case, I do not think your 'motor car' proposal is workable. It is used, certainly, but rarely, and we use common names here. The reality is that car is the only acceptable article name for that article, in line with our policies. We all call them cars...I guarantee you, when you walk down the street and see 'cars', you think, that's a 'car'. You don't think about automobiles or motor cars or autocars or horseless carriages. The article has successfully stood at that title for four years with no issue. No one complained that the 'car' article wasn't showing them the content they expected. If somehow the categories are out-of-whack, the way to fix that would not be trying to force a category move to a name no one really uses, and away from the parent article title. It would be making sure that everything was in the appropriate category...for instance, if people want a broad category for motor vehicles by year, we could create that. But, I know that's not why people are doing what they're doing...they simply have an irrational desire to preserve 'automobile' in aspic, irrespective of our policies, guidelines, RS...it feels like a form of revanchism, to come here after four years and make a fuss in an obscure venue about something that has never actually caused any problems in practice. I appreciate your efforts to resolve the situation, and your rationality...but I fear it won't make a difference. RGloucester — ☎ 23:51, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for your suggestions. They make good sense. Lets see how this plays out. I still prefer automobiles over cars as a term in this case, but I wont throw my toys out of the cot if it doesn't work out that way. Cheers.
- The reality is that the category and the article are meant to be aligned...and have been in the past. But, for now, it's best to see how the CfD turns out, so as to avoid WP:FORUMSHOPPING. The result of the CfD will determine the next course of action. In any case, I do not think your 'motor car' proposal is workable. It is used, certainly, but rarely, and we use common names here. The reality is that car is the only acceptable article name for that article, in line with our policies. We all call them cars...I guarantee you, when you walk down the street and see 'cars', you think, that's a 'car'. You don't think about automobiles or motor cars or autocars or horseless carriages. The article has successfully stood at that title for four years with no issue. No one complained that the 'car' article wasn't showing them the content they expected. If somehow the categories are out-of-whack, the way to fix that would not be trying to force a category move to a name no one really uses, and away from the parent article title. It would be making sure that everything was in the appropriate category...for instance, if people want a broad category for motor vehicles by year, we could create that. But, I know that's not why people are doing what they're doing...they simply have an irrational desire to preserve 'automobile' in aspic, irrespective of our policies, guidelines, RS...it feels like a form of revanchism, to come here after four years and make a fuss in an obscure venue about something that has never actually caused any problems in practice. I appreciate your efforts to resolve the situation, and your rationality...but I fear it won't make a difference. RGloucester — ☎ 23:51, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks - do you have any thoughts on using requested move in the Car article to try to resolve this. NealeFamily (talk) 23:38, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- No, it wasn't, but I was involved. See Talk:Car/Naming. RGloucester — ☎ 13:34, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Australia's head of state, again[edit]
Howdy. An Rfc at Monarchy of Australia has opened concerning the topic head of state. GoodDay (talk) 20:22, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Move review for Nanjing Massacre[edit]
An editor has asked for a Move review of Nanjing Massacre. Because you were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the move review. STSC (talk) 19:10, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Questions about your closure[edit]
There have been questions about your closure of the 'cars' category discussion at User talk:Good Olfactory. I pinged you there, but I'm also writing you this to make sure you're aware. Perhaps you can answer the concerns of Springee? RGloucester — ☎ 02:07, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you. I saw your first ping and responded there. - jc37 02:12, 19 November 2018 (UTC)