User talk:Ravenswing

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If you post to my talk page, I will reply here. If I posted to your talk page, I will look for responses there.

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I am disinterested in rants. Want to blow off steam? Go join a gym.

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Beyond that, I keep my AfD work over on AfD. Don't write me here to dispute my posts or lobby to change my vote. Anything on your mind should be said in the pertinent discussion, so everyone can be privy to the debate.

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This user talk page is watched by several friendly editors, and someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is always appreciated.

point of information[edit]

Re what you said on Resolute's page, where of course I am interdicted from saying anything in response to anyone:

  • "There are many thousands of other editors secure in their grasp of procedure and policy, so as to be able to make useful edits in subjects where they aren't knowledgeable.
    • All too often they make bad calls and misinformed votes and otherwise weigh in where they dont know the material - or the stats or sources; knowledge of procedure and policy, and claims that their readings of guidelines are policy, are not as "useful" as direct knowledge of the subject under discussion and knowledge about sources and issues about the content. including recognizing POV sources, content and language when they see it. Content should prevail over guidelines, and guidelines should not be presented as if policy, or have instruction creep laid onto them either. And POV is not relativistic; my only POV is the whole truth, not a selected part of it laid out in POV terms.
  • And sometimes, sir, you are outvoted. You can either lose gracefully and move on, or, well, go with the other option.
    • Point of information; "sometimes" I am outvoted, but most of the time what I have proposed finally passes after much arduous and needless oppositional discussion. Would you like a list of all the RMs and AfDs and CfDs that I've "won"? And care to make up a list of those I've lost? I "won" 90+ out of 100 of RMs, proportionately, I "won the vote"? And WP:Wikipedia is not a democracy, numerical vote-counting is not supposed to be how things go but statements and oppose/supports are supposed to be evaluated by their merits and validity.
    • And since you're alluding to an ANI with your "go with the other option", you should realize that the last two blocks levelled against me were not the result of votes, rather arbitrary actions by individual admins, the second who went against consensus and "votes" saying I shouldn't be blocked but did anyway, then went and closed the still-open RMs that had led to that ANI..... against me, without paying attention to the votes/comments.

I've never seen you before, other than seeing your name occasionally on AFD page histories; do you know or care about the subjects and issues that underlay what has been going on, or rather, what I have been surviving?Skookum1 (talk) 16:09, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Wow. For someone preaching WP:NOTAVOTE, you're pretty quick to thump your chest about your alleged won-loss record, aren't you? Isn't that special.

    Well, sorry. Quite aside from that many a filibuster-artist on Wikipedia claims victory less from the strength of his arguments than from their sheer volume, drowning out all others with incessant walls of text and outlasting the rest, that's not even the point. I don't, in fact, give a rat's ass about the merits of your arguments, or the articles they involve. I don't even know what they are, and that's not pertinent either. It's that from what I've seen of you so far, the Resolutes and WTMs are dead on: you're convinced that you're always right; that anyone who opposes your POV is automatically wrong; that if only you keep arguing and keep arguing the opposition will be battered into submission and everyone else will agree with you; that their failure to agree with you can only be the result of chicanery, stupidity, conspiracy, abuse of authority, ignorance or all of the above; that failure on your part to get in the last word -- the "losing gracefully" part -- is an admission of defeat; and that if every other tactic sputters out, well, go find someone else with whom to argue.

    Of course, I'm not the first one to tender you advice. You aren't listening to anyone else, any more than you did on the several occasions on which you were blocked for disruptive behavior. Why would you listen to me? Happily, this being my talk page, I get the last word, and since there's nothing constructive to be gained by you responding to this reply, you needn't do so. See that big statement in green at the top of this page? That's my last word. Have a happy. Ravenswing 01:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

LacyJane Folger[edit]

Hi. Just wanted to alert you that, per your suggestion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LacyJane Folger, I have expanded and improved the LacyJane Folger article, including multiple references from reliable third-party sources. I'd appreciate it if you could review the article in its current state. - Dravecky (talk) 05:44, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I have attempted to address your concerns at the AfD. - Dravecky (talk) 07:48, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil[edit]

Trust me. Walk away from it. GoodDay (talk) 14:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Oh, I said what I had to say. Looking over some of the related articles, there are the same one or two books dominating the cites, with some of the same language constantly inserted into the articles, and dominated by the same two or three editors. I've gotten the distinct impression that there's a small clique of editors on Brazilian monarchy-related articles who have their own idiosyncratic notions of how they want the GNG and WP:V to read, and a one-man wrecking crew isn't going to make headway. Ravenswing 14:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
I've faced quite a few 'cliques of editors' over the years. My block log, will attest to that :) GoodDay (talk) 14:52, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Newspapers.com check-in[edit]

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TWL HighBeam check-in[edit]

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"Essay-like"[edit]

Could you clarify with some specific examples of what motivated you to place this tag? Years ago someone tagged it with {{story}} and I cleaned it up, so if it has some issues I'd like to know what so I can fix them. Daniel Case (talk) 03:09, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

  • But of course:

    * "... who at that time favored Pepsi and its sweetness by even more overwhelming margins than the market as a whole."

    * "The results of the taste tests were strong – the sweeter mixture overwhelmingly beat both regular Coke and Pepsi."

    * "A small minority, about 10–12%, felt angry and alienated at the very thought ..."

    * "Goizueta defended the change by pointing out that the drink's secret formula was not sacrosanct and inviolable."

    * "... a vocal minority of them resented the change in formula and were not shy about making that known ..."

    * "Most of them saw great difficulty having to promote and sell a drink that had long been marketed as "The Real Thing", constant and unchanging, now that it had been changed."

    * "Bottlers, particularly in the South, were also tired of facing personal opprobrium over the change. Many reported that some acquaintances had stopped speaking to them, or had expressed displeasure in other emotionally hurtful ways."

    * "This populist version of the story served Coke's interests, however, as the whole episode did more to position and define Coca-Cola as a brand embodying values distinct from Pepsi than any deliberate effort to do so probably could have done."

    * "While in the short term the fiasco led Bill Cosby to end his advertising for Coke, saying his commercials that praised the superiority of the new formula had hurt his credibility, no one at Coca-Cola was fired or otherwise held responsible for what is still widely perceived as a misstep, for the simple reason that it ultimately wasn't."

    * "Phone calls and letters to the company were as joyful and thankful as they had been angry and depressed ..."

    * "But confusion reigned at the company's marketing department ..."

    * "Marketers fumbled for a strategy for the rest of the year."

    * "At the beginning of 1986, however, Coke's marketing team found a strategy by returning to their original motives for changing the drink: the youth market so beholden to Pepsi."

    * "In a riposte to Pepsi's televisual teasings ..."

    * "However, Coca-Cola did little to promote or otherwise distinguish it. In a market already offering far more choice of drinks calling themselves "Coke" in some fashion or another, the public saw little reason to embrace a product they had firmly rejected seven years earlier ..."

    * "New Coke had the spotlight for only three months but casts a long shadow, in both the business world and popular culture, that can be seen today."

    There are far too many statements like these, often uncited, short on encyclopedic tone and long on opinionated phrasing. If this is the version after cleanup, I hate to think what the previous version looked like. Ravenswing 06:10, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I would quibble that a fair amount of these are cited; they're in the midst of grafs cited to the same source. But you are right that the language is in some cases hypey, still a bit more suited to a magazine piece than an encylopedic article; I will be addressing that at some point in the near future (For some reason the people at OTD, as you can tell by the article-history banner on the talk page, love listing this anniversary (either the introduction of New Coke, or the re-introduction of Classic Coke). Days like those bring a lot of editorial attention to the article, and with the expansion of my watchlist in the years since then it is all I can do just to keep it relatively vandalism-free. There was a time in the past when I had this grand idea about doing even more deep-dive research into the periodicals of the era that aren't archived online and bringing it up to FA status; I suppose that's still possible but it has gone down on my priorities list.

Yes, it was worse when it had been tagged with {{story}}. I won't link to the diff in question, but, as so often happens, I overcame my initial burst of resentment to see that the tagger had a point, just like you do. And to think it got to be a GA for a while—although in fairness that was in the early days of GAs when the standards were looser. It's not the only article I've contributed a great deal to that had that status once and then lost it. Fortunately there have been a lot more GAs I've developed and nominated that have kept it. Daniel Case (talk) 16:17, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not saying that the language wouldn't fly in a magazine article; of course it would. It's just not encyclopedic, and that's exactly what that tag is for. Are some of those statements cited? Yes. Is that the language the citations use? Well, short of ordering those books through the library, I've no way of knowing. But if those are the exact phrasings the citations use, then they should be put in quotes, which'd be another way to solve the issue. Ravenswing 00:04, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Portland Pirates/Sprimgfield Falcons[edit]

Buddy, Arizona's affiliate is the Portland Pirates not the Springfield Falcons you troll. Get with it you scam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.75.227 (talk) 02:10, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Plainly your ability to read news reports is impaired; I recommend a stronger prescription for your glasses. Try this, for instance: [1]. And thank you for playing. Ravenswing 06:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

TWL Questia check-in[edit]

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List of fire districts in Barnstable, Massachusetts[edit]

HAHA! I LOVED your response to the AfD. Thanks for that. :-) --Zackmann08 (talk) 18:02, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Heh, thanks. Ravenswing 02:48, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

infobox school district[edit]

today, an editor added the above infobox to approximately a dozen settlement articles in one state. I removed one which he promptly restored without discussion or even an edit summary. Another editor removed it and pointed out to him that the template's documentation states it is to be used on school district articles. even without that, adding a big clunky infobox to an article, when the same infobox, complete with graphics that cannot be on it in a settlement article, is available at the wikilinked school district article mentioned in the first couple lines of the section it was added to, is not particularly constructive. Everything I have ever read on infoboxes indicate that they are intended to serve as a summary and a bit of flash for articles. not sections, articles.

The editor that added it has a history of making "innovative" edits to large numbers of articles at the same time creating a mess to be cleaned up.

the way people access the internet is changing. a large number of people now access Wikipedia via mobile devices, myself included. I can tell you from the cleanup process on this mess, with two big infoboxes on already large articles, my phone had trouble loading the page. after the inappropriate infobox was removed, no problem at all.

hope this addresses your concerns. John from Idegon (talk) 07:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Well ... for one, the documentation states that the infobox is intended for school district articles, but nothing in that documentation or in any relevant guideline or policy precludes it from being used elsewhere. That being said, you do understand, I hope, that an article being slow to load on yours or anyone else's smartphone is a completely invalid reason to remove content from Wikipedia.

    As it happens, I didn't revert again because there happens to be a Plymouth Public Schools article, so there's no reason to have the same infobox appear twice. Ravenswing 07:08, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

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