User talk:RexxS

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Biblical criticism[edit]

Ha ha! I AM sleepy! But I DO want to post here! I am currently trying to prepare Biblical criticism for FA review. It is undergoing peer review right now [1] and it has been suggested I add alt text to the images there. I am a relative newcomer here--been here about a year now--but keep finding there is more I don't know than I do! I haven't yet learned how to do alt-text and Gerda Arendt said you did hers, so I am here asking for help. It isn't the work that bothers me--it's being stupid about all this stuff! I've looked at the instruction page and I am a little confused still--does the alt-text go into bracketed section describing the image? Anyway, anything you can offer on this will be deeply appreciated. Thank you! And thank you for being the kind of Wikipedian other Wikipedians can recommend as someone who helps others. I am grateful for that too--whether you have time for this right now or not. Right now I am getting sleepy though... Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:57, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jenhawk777! I've done the first half of the images for you, up to Hermann Gunkel. If you have a look at what I've done, you may find you can see how to add alt text to the remaining images. If not, don't worry, just ping me again and I'll finish the job, or review what you did if you added alt text yourself. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 19:50, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
OMG! Thank you! I got the best of both worlds this way! No wonder Gerda speaks so highly of you. Thank you thank you! Jenhawk777 (talk) 02:07, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.12 30 July 2018[edit]

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months. (Purge)

Hello RexxS, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

June backlog drive

Overall the June backlog drive was a success, reducing the last 3,000 or so to below 500. However, as expected, 90% of the patrolling was done by less than 10% of reviewers.
Since the drive closed, the backlog has begun to rise sharply again and is back up to nearly 1,400 already. Please help reduce this total and keep it from raising further by reviewing some articles each day.

New technology, new rules
  • New features are shortly going to be added to the Special:NewPagesFeed which include a list of drafts for review, OTRS flags for COPYVIO, and more granular filter preferences. More details can be found at this page.
  • Probationary permissions: Now that PERM has been configured to allow expiry dates to all minor user rights, new NPR flag holders may sometimes be limited in the first instance to 6 months during which their work will be assessed for both quality and quantity of their reviews. This will allow admins to accord the right in borderline cases rather than make a flat out rejection.
  • Current reviewers who have had the flag for longer than 6 months but have not used the permissions since they were granted will have the flag removed, but may still request to have it granted again in the future, subject to the same probationary period, if they wish to become an active reviewer.
  • Editathons will continue through August. Please be gentle with new pages that obviously come from good faith participants, especially articles from developing economies and ones about female subjects. Consider using the 'move to draft' tool rather than bluntly tagging articles that may have potential but which cannot yet reside in mainspace.
The Signpost
  • The next issue of the monthly magazine will be out soon. The newspaper is an excellent way to stay up to date with news and new developments between our newsletters. If you have special messages to be published, or if you would like to submit an article (one about NPR perhaps?), don't hesitate to contact the editorial team here.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 00:00, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


Looking in at the FAC for Sandringham House I noticed your approving comment that no elements of the page were collapsed by default. This worries me as regards a few of my own contributions. If you have a moment, would you mind looking at, for instance, Les nuits d'été and letting me have your advice on the presentation of the texts and translations? This is not the only article on songs or song cycles etc where I have laid the texts and translations out thus, but if it causes problems of accessibility I'll of course want to do what is needed. Tim riley talk 08:56, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi Tim. The relevant guidance is at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility #Users with limited CSS or JavaScript support and Wikipedia:Manual of Style #Scrolling lists and collapsible content. In a nutshell, there's a chance that some readers or re-users won't be able to get at the content if it is hidden by default, because the show/hide won't work for them.
It's worth noting that the collapsible functionality doesn't exist for mobile viewers anyway (for that very reason). If you look at Les nuits d'été in mobile view, you'll see that there's there's nothing hidden and no ability to collapse the lyrics. So around half of our readers see all of the text from the start.
I do appreciate the reasons for wanting to collapse the lyrics, so I guess you have to balance the convenience/aesthetics of hiding some text for half our readers against the possibility that some readers may have problems with that. I've no way of knowing how many are likely to be affected, so it's a difficult one to weigh up.
If you do decide to present the text uncollapsed, then it would be sufficient to add |expanded=yes to each instance of {{hidden begin}}, which would allow the block to be hidden/shown, but would ensure that it was visible when the page loaded. That would retain at least some of the functionality that you have provided.
I hope that helps, although I'm sorry that I've not been able to be definitive in my response. It's possible that some of my talk-page stalkers may also be able to offer advice as well. All the best --RexxS (talk) 10:33, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Support for collapsing on mobile is coming soon. --Izno (talk) 13:24, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you so much. That's most helpful and I'm v. grateful. Tim riley talk 13:35, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
(watching and musing:) for such texts, would wikisource be an alternative, - because I'd imagine articles in other languages might profit from having these texts? Another possibility without collapsing: putting the texts in footnotes? Or in a section at the bottom, in case there's no reference to a text in the following section? (I tried something like that in Max Reger works, for pieces with several movements which would be too much within the tabl, - see Op. numbers with a link, such as 7, 8 ...) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:48, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Additional empty line in template[edit]

Hey! I’ve just converted another template on German WP to Lua, the de:Template:Infobox Chartplatzierungen, and it works fine overall. However, now the template seems to create an additional empty line at the beginning. Since the infobox is usually preceded by a comment, this leads to an additional space that was not there with the old template code (see for a typical example de:Giusy Ferreri).

<!-- comment -->
{{Infobox Chartplatzierungen

I don’t get where this line is coming from; in the Lua function I start directly with ret = "{|…", just like the old template did. What have I overlooked here? Best regards, XanonymusX (talk) 11:58, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi XanonymusX The odd thing isn't that you get an empty line above the template. I would expect that because of the newline that follows the comment. The odd thing is that you didn't have it before. Anyway, the really simple solution is to eliminate the newline between the comment and the start of the template like this:
<!-- siehe [[Wikipedia:Formatvorlage Charts]] für Hinweise zur Box und zu den Chartquellen -->{{Infobox Chartplatzierungen
I've just made that change to Giusy Ferreri and it eliminates the extra line. I can't think of a solution within the Lua or template code for those sort of problems, so I'd just recommend fixing them in articles as they crop up. At its simplest, a comment followed by a newline produces a newline unless the MediWiki software can recognise the case and suppress it. If that's not happening (perhaps because the Lua output isn't parsed the same way as pure wiki-text), then removing the newline is always going to be the easiest fix. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 12:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Well, that was exactly what I was saying to the others earlier today! :D No idea why there never was an empty line. I could think of leaving the first line of the table outside the function, just as normal template code (need to try that later to see whether it indeed suppresses the new line), but I think that isn’t good style. So I guess my colleagues can continue the fixing, we just need to find a good compromise (there was some arguing about these edits just last night). Probably putting comment and template name in the same line is the best solution (or maybe we should remove these comments completely, I never got why they were so important, but I’m not the inventor of the infobox). Anyway, thanks for looking into this, good to know that I’m not the only one puzzled by this behaviour. Best regards, XanonymusX (talk) 12:47, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
@XanonymusX: I suspect that somewhere in the parsing of the wikitext, the parser checks for something like newline{| and suppresses the newline so that we can have a single blank line in the wikitext after hatnotes and before an infobox. My theory is that the point at which the Lua module is evaluated comes after that check, so it doesn't happen in these cases. Of course you can always put the comment on its own line inside the infobox without causing any problems like this:
{{Infobox Chartplatzierungen
<!-- siehe [[Wikipedia:Formatvorlage Charts]] für Hinweise zur Box und zu den Chartquellen -->
| Bild = Giusy Ferreri.jpg
But I guess that's a matter of personal taste. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 13:00, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
After some discussion on deWP, I have filed a bug report on Phabricator. Maybe this is something that can be fixed (or at least we should obtain some more information on the issue). Best regards–XanonymusX (talk) 21:16, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Peer review newsletter #1[edit]


Hello to all! I do not intend to write a regular peer review newsletter but there does occasionally come a time when those interested in contributing to peer review should be contacted, and now is one. I've mailed this out to everyone on the peer review volunteers list, and some editors that have contributed to past discussions. Apologies if I've left you off or contacted you and you didn't want it. Next time there is a newsletter / mass message it will be opt in (here), I'll talk about this below - but first:

  • THANK YOU! I want to thank you for your contributions and for volunteering on the list to help out at peer review. Thank you!
  • Peer review is useful! It's good to have an active peer review process. This is often the way that we help new or developing editors understand our ways, and improve the quality of their editing - so it fills an important and necessary gap between the teahouse (kindly introduction to our Wikiways) and GA and FA reviews (specific standards uphelp according to a set of quality criteria). And we should try and improve this process where possible (automate, simplify) so it can be used and maintained easily.


It can get quite lonely tinkering with peer review...
With a bit of effort we can renovate the place to look like this!

Update #1: the peer review volunteers list is changing[edit]

The list is here in case you've forgotten: WP:PRV. Kadane has kindly offered to create a bot that will ping editors on the volunteers list with unanswered reviews in their chosen subject areas every so often. You can choose the time interval by changing the "contact" parameter. Options are "never", "monthly", "quarterly", "halfyearly", and "annually". For example:

  • {{PRV|JohnSmith|History of engineering|contact=monthly}} - if placed in the "History" section, JohnSmith will receive an automatic update every month about unanswered peer reviews relating to history.
  • {{PRV|JaneSmith|Mesopotamian geography, Norwegian fjords|contact=annually}} - if placed in the "Geography" section, JaneSmith will receive an automatic update every yearly about unanswered peer reviews in the geography area.

We can at this stage only use the broad peer review section titles to guide what reviews you'd like, but that's better than nothing! You can also set an interest in multiple separate subject areas that will be updated at different times.

Update #2: a (lean) WikiProject Peer review[edit]

I don't think we need a WikiProject with a giant bureaucracy nor all sorts of whiz-bang features. However over the last few years I've found there are times when it would have been useful to have a list of editors that would like to contribute to discussions about the peer review process (e.g. instructions, layout, automation, simplification etc.). Also, it can get kind of lonely on the talk page as I am (correct me if I'm wrong) the only regular contributor, with most editors moving on after 6 - 12 months.

So, I've decided to create "WikiProject Peer review". If you'd like to contribute to the WikiProject, or make yourself available for future newsletters or contact, please add yourself to the list of members.

Update #3: advertising[edit]

We plan to do some advertising of peer review, to let editors know about it and how to volunteer to help, at a couple of different venues (Signpost, Village pump, Teahouse etc.) - but have been waiting until we get this bot + WikiProject set up so we have a way to help interested editors make more enduring contributions. So consider yourself forewarned!

And... that's it!

I wish you all well on your Wikivoyages, Tom (LT) (talk) 00:31, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

See the link below[edit]

[2] Seppi333 (Insert ) 15:59, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

colons etc[edit]

First of all, don't make me look at that stupid image, I'm sleepy already! So--either colons or asterisks. Does that mean you can't do stuff like :::*? Does it have to be ****? I'm always troubled by asterisks "breaking", as happened once already in that ANI discussion. Thanks RexxS--I'm willing to learn these things better. Drmies (talk) 23:16, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

The "breaking" point is key. I no longer use **** because it will be broken (and very quickly on a busy noticeboard). On odd-numbered days, I take the attitude that wikitext is not HTML and any problem should be fixed by a change to MediaWiki. On the other days I feel guilty. Johnuniq (talk) 03:52, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
The easiest rule to remember is just to copy and paste the list item nomenclature to which you are responding, and then add whatever kind you want. In the case of responding to something that looks like :**:::*, just copy that and add a * (:**:::**) or a colon (:**:::*:). --Izno (talk) 12:05, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
@Drmies: What John and Izno have said is exactly on point. Our system of threading is awkward, but screen reader users learn to cope as long as the posts don't switch styles needlessly. Perhaps it's worth trying to explain that lists have an opening, one or more items and an end. For example, three colons actually creates a list which is inside a list inside a list – and none of the lists are yet ended at that point. If the next post has four colons then it just opens one more list inside the other lists, and three colons followed by an asterisk is still okay, because it still has three colons so doesn't try to close all of the previous lists. However, if you leave a blank line or change to four asterisks, all of the previous lists have to be closed and a new set of lists opened (what I called "unwinding and re-winding" the levels). We don't see that, but anybody using a screen reader will hear each of the lists being closed individually, followed by the new lists being opened – and that can completely confuse the screen reader user about who is replying to whom, as well as annoying the hell out of them.
I try to stick to colon indentation wherever possible. That allows me to make a list of points inside my post using asterisks. For example, I might enumerate two points inside this post like this:
  • First point;
  • Second point.
Then I go back to my original style (two colons) without causing aggravation to the visually impaired. Using colons makes it easy to post multiple "paragraphs", which the other list styles have problems with.
I also recommend liberal use of the {{reply to}} template, and use it consistently whenever my post is not a simple reply to the previous post. Although we can see to whom we are replying by the level of indentation, a screen reader can't see that, so it is a kindness to let them know whom the reply is aimed at if it's not the previous post in the thread.
In !votes like RfCs and RfAs, which contain a list of supports or opposes with very little threading, it is fine to use asterisks or hashes as the basic style. That helps to visually identify each post, as long as each one is just a single "paragraph". Hopefully threaded discussion takes place in another section using colon indentations.
That may be quite a bit to take in, but the tl;dr is that our system has made it tough to understand why something that looks fine (like switching form colons to asterisks) to us causes problems for anybody who can't see what we see. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 15:48, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you so much, all of you. I'll be working on this. Drmies (talk) 17:44, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
RexxS et al, so one could call this a positive edit? If it's in the "practically useless to moderately positive" range, that would be good already. Drmies (talk) 17:47, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Sorry, Drmies, that made matters worse. If the first line starts with an asterisk, then every line needs to start with an asterisk if we want to be kind to screen readers. As Izno said, the indent of a response should match the start of what is being responded to plus an extra indent character. So this is okay:

You've deleted my sandbox ... user1

  • This sandbox looks ok ... user2
    • I simply use the sandbox for myself ... user3
      • No it isn't ... user4
      • No. If you're preparing material ... user5

So would this be (although it's a different display):

You've deleted my sandbox ...user1

  • This sandbox looks ok ... user2
    I simply use the sandbox for myself ... user3
    No it isn't ... user4
    No. If you're preparing material ... user5

My personal preference would be:

You've deleted my sandbox ...user1

This sandbox looks ok ... user2
I simply use the sandbox for myself ... user3
No it isn't ... user4
@User3: No. If you're preparing material ... user5

Note that the start of each line matches the start of the previous, sometimes with an extra character (: or *) to give an extra level of indent. That's what keeps it simple and comprehensible for the screen reader. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 18:19, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

  • Gotcha. I see the point now; I failed to pay attention to the "opening" terminology. Thanks again Rexx; I reverted myself. Damn I wish I'd known about this earlier. Drmies (talk) 18:39, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Any procedure for handling indents needs to account for the fact that half an hour after you reply, someone will probably insert a more-indented reply above yours. And they will do that with colons because easy. That would break some of the correct examples above. Johnuniq (talk) 01:21, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

In case you're interested in a tangential topic for another user, you might try this one out. I don't know how you repeat the same thing day after day. --Izno (talk) 16:35, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Izno. I've left a brief note for Lowellian. I had the privilege of meeting Graham87 in person in 2012, and remembering how much he manages and how cheerfully he copes keeps me resolute in my determination that nobody is going to make life any more difficult for him and others in the same position. --RexxS (talk) 20:13, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Rotating things: a hint for yesterday's puzzle[edit]

If the image I see now as I type were to go at one third of the speed, it would be more obvious that for the cube to return to its initial configuration, it must turn through two complete rotations. Maproom (talk) 18:21, 20 August 2018 (UTC)