User talk:Rich Farmbrough/Archive/2009 April

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citations needed Fact template[edit]

Hi Rich,

After adding the Fact template to a couple of articles I noticed your Smackbot added the date to it. I was under the impression I should just add the Fact part of the template and leave the bot to add the date - is this correct or should I be adding the date part straight away? (apologies, I am still at 'steep learning curve' stage.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hudson702 (talkcontribs) 21:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

It's perfectly ok to do either, but personally I prefer people not to date as SmackBot will pretty much get it right whereas us poor humans often mistype month names etc.. SB does correct a lot of these errors too. Rich Farmbrough, 00:04 1 April 2009 (UTC).
Great, thanks for the advice.Hudson702 (talk) 08:02, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

SmackBot changing dates in templates[edit]

Some of the recent edits by SmackBot have changed dates from April 2009 to March 2009, for example this edit. —Snigbrook 01:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 12:23 2 April 2009 (UTC).
And this one[1], and others indeed.

Can you please fix this? Fram (talk) 07:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 12:23 2 April 2009 (UTC).

CfD nomination of Category:Current events ongoing[edit]

Info talk.png

Category:Current events ongoing, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Cgingold (talk) 06:30, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

BLP reference templates[edit]

Hey Rich, could you get SmackBot to replace {{Unreferenced}} with {{BLP unsourced}} and {{Refimprove}} with {{BLP sources}} on articles with Category:Living people? - kollision (talk) 01:16, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes/ Rich Farmbrough, 18:40 29 March 2009 (UTC).
I just saw this in action, and it's a ridiculously good change. Thanks for doing it. Gavia immer (talk) 04:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Smackbot/Wikiproject unref switch[edit]

Maybe this is an old hat already, but just in case: In this edit smackbot expanded the unrefswitch in WikiProject Germany template with the date and thereby made it useless. unref=yes was the correct entry. Agathoclea (talk) 12:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

thank you that is useful information. Rich Farmbrough, 14:38 4 April 2009 (UTC).

Trivial edit by smackbot[edit]

Smackbot is doing some trivial and unnecessary edits.

In this edit, Smackbot replaced {{morefootnotes|date=March 2009}} with {{More footnotes|date=March 2009}}.

What's the purpose of that? Bypassing a redirect makes no difference to the reader or the maintenance categories, and there's much more server load from an edit that from a redirect. So why not just skip that page?

In any case, the tag was added using Friendly. Is the bot going to run around trivially reformatting the results of a widely-used script? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Gosh you are on the ball. The run was about 2-300 items which were in an undated category but SB could not fix, yet had an edit "available" against them, however trivial. Most of those items were fixed by the near-null edit, which meant could concentrate on the rest. Rich Farmbrough, 16:10 7 April 2009 (UTC).


I think you removed a parenthesis or something in this edit. See, for example, the redlinked category it put at the bottom of Manchu given name. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 07:00, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Yep, looks like {{#if:{{{date|}}}|from ({{{date}}}}} just needs to be replaced with {{#if:{{{date|}}}|from ({{{date}}})}} . rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 07:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Never mind, it's been fixed. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 13:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 6 April 2009[edit]

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Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 19:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:BishopStopfordsSchoolLogo.png[edit]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:BishopStopfordsSchoolLogo.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 04:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC) --Skier Dude (talk) 04:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


Hi Rich, after the third consecutive unconstructive edit to this article I have marked my undo as vandalism revert. Do you actually care about error notifications from other users? Next time (sure this won't take long) I'll attempt to switch SmackBot off. --Pgallert (talk) 10:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I replied to you explaining the situation. Note that simply reverting a bot is often a waste of time, I have fixed the article so that it won't attract SB - while I wouldn't suggest that the onus is on you to do that, it is what works and I would in your place. In extremis you can mark the article with the nobots template. Having said that its really rather a trivial matter. Where do you think JEDMICS should be linked from? Rich Farmbrough, 01:06 9 April 2009 (UTC).
Honestly, if you explained it I didn't get it. I was just worried the bot repeatedly removes a template that clearly belongs there; the article has only one main space link to it (and that comes from a list which doesn't count). And honestly, I felt you should worry if SB makes unconstructive edits. I still feel that way. Maybe I'm naive, but wouldn't the "proper" way be to look into the source code and eliminate the error? I mean, who's checking bot edits, and how many times has SB done something like this? --Pgallert (talk) 09:29, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Tagging Question[edit]

Hi, quick question on Smack Bot's algorithim here. The article has sources, except for one section, which is really just a list of his books that we haven't been able to verify due to language issues. All things about the man are sourced, so is he really an unsourced BLP? Just curious, thanks! StarM 12:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Hm, I see your point. Remember category:BLP articles lacking sources only means more sources are needed not that it's unsourced. Rich Farmbrough, 15:14 7 April 2009 (UTC).
Got it. I interpreted "lacking" as "not having" rather than "not having enough". Makes sense now. Thanks. StarM 01:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Diane Webber[edit]

Diane Webber You changed this to listing to say it is the biography of a living person. Diane passed away in 2008Katsand (talk) 18:27, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

No I didn't. The category ((Living People) was there and needed removing. I have fixed it. Rich Farmbrough, 01:02 9 April 2009 (UTC).

Edit Summary[edit]

What's your opinion on correct protocol? - At present, any changes obvious by using 'diff' I do not mention, ie I leave the Edit Summary section blank. I would, however, use it to describe an edit that merits further explanation, eg unbiasing, etc. Is this correct?Hudson702 (talk) 09:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC))

Well for a few keystrokes you can put "ced" for copy-edit -"sp" for spelling, "layout", "simplify" etc. I often leave it blank, but there is value to someone being able to look at the history instead of the diffs. Rich Farmbrough, 13:59 9 April 2009 (UTC).
OK thanks Hudson702 (talk) 14:32, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at this recent edit...[edit]

...of Süper Lig 2008–09. For some odd reason, SmackBot inserted dates in each end every scoreline, thus bloating the code by nearly 5 kB. Since a general source for all results must be given in the footer of this set of templates, the bot seems to be misjudging. Could you please fix it? :-) --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 21:13, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes Fb R shouldn't be dated. maybe because the template page itself transcludes tl:fact.. fixed anyway. Rich Farmbrough, 03:14 10 April 2009 (UTC).
Sorry to disturb you once more, but 45 minutes after your answer above, he did it again. o.O Let's see if he does once more, but nevertheless, Nevermind. The old "time zone conversion brain malfunction". XD Thanks a lot for your effort! :-) --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 09:53, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Smackbot demoted header comment[edit]

At Annie Oakley (diff) Smackbot moved a disambiguation subhead above a hidden header comment. This page is frequently mis-edited by young students, so it's important to have "READ THIS" be the first thing they see. Please fix Smackbot so that it ignores the position of hidden comments in making item move decisions. Thanks. (Please reply here if desired)Milo 06:38, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Eric Bibb[edit]

A quick question. What sort of source is needed to verify the birth date? This date was confirmed to me by Eric Bibb's manager, but I suppose you need "durably archived". Cheers. -- ALGRIF talk 12:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikimania 2010 Oxford bid[edit]

Thank you for supporting the Oxford bid to hold Wikimania 2010! We're currently in the final stages of the bid process - the jury will be announcing their decision by the 16th April. We're currently putting together the local team for the bid (who will do what if the bid wins); if you're able to be on the local team, please put your name in the appropriate place on m:Wikimania 2010/Bids/Oxford/Team. We'd also welcome anything you can do to help refine the bid in these last few days. If you have any questions, please let me or User:Seddon know. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:45, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:BLP unsourced section[edit]

I've left a comment at the talkpage of that template you may be interested in. Thank you. --Pixelface (talk) 05:58, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

'Scotch whisky' smackbot edits[edit]

Hi, I'm not sure what went wrong but something clearly did when SmackBot tried to edit the Scotch whisky article - I thought this should be brought to your attention. Richard Jackson (talk) 23:17, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Oddly, I can't find any record of the article how I saw it when I reported this to you; the bottom of the page seemed to be a copy of the article on alcoholic drinks. Not sure what happened but it's gone now. Sorry to waste your time. Richard Jackson (talk) 20:08, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem. Rich Farmbrough, 01:16 13 April 2009 (UTC).

Area bombing directive[edit]

See bottom of the diff the bot altered the dates within quotes which make up part of a book title. --PBS (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your message, SmackBot makes a number of changes that are available to all WP:AWB bots - in general these provide a number of non-controversial minor improvements.
The issue you raise is related to these, I have left, or will leave, a message about your concerns on the WP:AWB pages.

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 01:17 13 April 2009 (UTC).

Disambiguation of sections.[edit]

Please reply on my talk page Homebum (talk) 22:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

{{help me}}

I am not sure if Smack Bot is making a mistake here or not. I have a section in my article Classical_Hamiltonian_quaternions#Tensor that used to be part of an article tensor of a quaternion until they decided against my objections to roll both articles into one article.

So now there needs to be disambiguation for this section, because the word tensor has different meanings.

Smackbot may have found an error in the way I am doing these tags? What is the right way?

Homebum (talk) 18:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

You are asking a question of Rich as the bot's operator. The helpme template calls general users who monitor the helpme request category and is not useful for getting Rich's attention. Rather, he will get the message as soon as he logs on since he will get the bright orange "you have new messages" bar that a user sees whenever another editor edits his or her talk page. Note that the {{helpme}} template is normally for placement on your talk page only.-- (talk) 19:05, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining that about the help me tag! I will put this question on my talk page!Homebum (talk) 22:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Linked-title[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svgTemplate:Linked-title has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. —Remember the dot (talk) 19:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

SmackBot Peter Kennedy (priest)[edit]

Thanks. :)--Thecurran (talk) 00:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 13 April 2009[edit]

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Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 16:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


I think the non-breaking spaces nbsp; your bot inserts are premature optimization. It may prevent from searching for exact titles, too. Thanks for the other fixes.--ilgiz (talk) 22:30, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

SmackBot years on PD-self categories[edit]

This edit is one of over a hundred in which SmackBot dropped two or three digits off the year. I've been correcting these by hand, but maybe the bot could do this quicker. --Stepheng3 (talk) 18:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Just wondering[edit]

Hi - cleaning up some double redirects and I noticed User:Rich_Farmbrough/dabpages - just wondering, can you tell me what this page is used for? Thanks.     JCutter  talk to me }     23:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 00:35 18 April 2009 (UTC).


I recently created this. Could this be made Smackbot-friendly?Headbomb {ταλκκοντριβς – WP Physics} 23:27, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Should all be done. Rich Farmbrough, 23:33 18 April 2009 (UTC).
Thanks.Headbomb {ταλκκοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


Does your SmackBot fix image files also? See Category:Articles with invalid date parameter in template that we have some 246 of them. Debresser (talk) 11:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes sortof. I am aware of those images. Rich Farmbrough, 00:33 18 April 2009 (UTC).
I fixed the last 61 manually. I prefer fixing manually (when I have time) because then I can also fix a redlinked category, improve layout, recognise vandalism, etc.

BTW, do you know which bot fixes pages in Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates. I've been told User:DumbBOT. And that there is another one. You know which one? Debresser (talk) 23:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. Most of the ones I fixed up were actually done semi-manually. Rich Farmbrough, 00:36 19 April 2009 (UTC).

Tony Hollingsworth entry[edit]

Hi. Re the Tony Hollingsworth piece, I have radically cut and altered this, removing aspects that could make it read like an advertisement. Do you think the "advertisement" and "neutrality" notices at the top could now be removed? Peter Elman (talk) 08:23, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


This edit to Spinal Tap by SmackBot replaced a zero-width space HTML entity (​) with the actual Unicode character, which is invisible in the edit box. (The purpose of the zero-width space is to allow for a line break in long sequences which contain no characters that normally indicate where a line break may be inserted.) If the entity doesn't belong, it should be removed, but I don't see any guideline or policy that prohibits or recommends against it. —Danorton (talk) 18:27, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Generally AWB replaces HTML and similar entities with their Unicode representation - spaces are normally not included in this replacement. I will raise it with the AWB team. Rich Farmbrough, 00:09 20 April 2009 (UTC).
You might also consider the issue of combining diacritics, which will also "disappear" when converted to Unicode (e.g. n-diaeresis). —Danorton (talk) 01:08, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Another Backlog Tag Please[edit]

Would you apply the Backlog tag to Category:Biography articles without living parameter? There are only 51,548 pages there but those pages have been used as a rationale for a change to the the WP Biog banner that was applied inappropriately in the interest of applying to the pages that need it. Thank you.

JimCubb (talk) 01:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Collect RFC[edit]

Hi, there's an ongoing RFC on User:Collect [2]. You've been an editor on Joe the Plumber so your perspective might be helpful.Mattnad (talk) 15:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 20 April 2009[edit]

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Delivered by SoxBot II (talk) at 19:08, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Your Inputs[edit]

Dear Editor,

Before i make an entry live in article space, i would like a few editors to take a look at it and give their opinions. The entry is that of an online collaboration company and can be seen at The entries i referenced are,,,

Looking forward to your opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pankajunk (talkcontribs) 15:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

SmackBot still adding spaces to cartridge designations[edit]

SmackBot is still adding non-breaking spaces to cartridge designations.[3] As I've explained before, these are more designations than actual measurements. It also seems to be doing this more often now, which is extremely annoying because it usually fixes other things in the same edit, which means the spaces have to be taken out manually. — DP5 20:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 12:40 2 May 2009 (UTC).

SmackBot edits of the page Stefan Th. Gries[edit]

Your bot flags the page for Stefan Th. Gries as lacking in terms of notability. I had already before added the following information in the discussion section that shows that the article meets notability criteria for academic researchers

Stefan Th. Gries meets the following criteria from the notability of academics page:

One criterion is: "The person's research has made significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources." Stefan Th. Gries has widely published in books (cf. the links at the bottom of the page) and peer-reviewed journals of his fields and performs editorial functions for several different journals in his fields.

Another criterion is "The person is or has been an editor-in-chief of a major well-established journal in their subject area." Stefan Th. Gries has been editor-in-chief of the journal Corpus Linguistics and Linguistic Theory for the past five years, which has been ranked by the European Science Foundation and awarded the highest journal ranking class by the Norwegian Science Foundation.

Thus, plz let me know in what way you think the page violates notability in spite of the above or plz leave the page alone. Thx. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your message, SmackBot does not generally add tags, but merely dates those that are already there. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 22:07 25 April 2009 (UTC).

Re: Article: John Serry, Sr. Tagging[edit]

Dear Mr. Farmbrough: Just a quick note regarding the posting of tagging banners upon the article John Serry, Sr. (requesting the removal of Peacock terms and General cleanup). As the primary author of the article I apologize for the limitations of the biography which I attribute to my lack of experience in submitting material to Wikipedia. I have attempted to remove language which might be construed as promotional or subjective while also deleting links to names of musicians who are not mentioned in Wikipedia. It is my hope that these actions result in an article which is more balanced for encyclopedic purposes. In light of these edits, kindly reconsider the use of these tags on the article and remove them if possible. As always I welcome any suggestions which you might have to improve the quality of the work. Thanks for your consideration. Respectfully, --Pjs012915 (talk) 20:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)User:pjs012915

Hi, thanks for your message, SmackBot does not generally add tags, but merely dates those that are already there. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 22:08 25 April 2009 (UTC).

Thank you SmackBot[edit]

Thank you SmackBot my friend, you always are forgiving and unobtrusive, and have quite good timing too you seem not to come in too quickly nor too late. Nothing worse than an eager bot who disrupts an edit in process.

(And why SmackBot? You give a smack to editors, or you're high on smack?).

You're a good bot. Go tell you transwiki bot friends, who keep replacing good links with bad ones, that I told them so.

Also please give my regards to SignBot, poor thing must be getting lonely now I have got the habit of signing (always do sign, but I had styles from other places). SimonTrew (talk) 21:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


I have no idea why I just got the message? SatuSuro 03:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

OK got it - one of the sundanese nightmares of the past - cheers and thanks - SatuSuro 03:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


Problematic edit by SmackBot[edit]

FYI. I noticed this edit by SmackBot that effectively blanked an article. Looks like there may be a new test case for your quality assurance efforts along with a new bug to track down and resolve. --Allen3 talk 11:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

It's a tricky one. Basically AWB moves the cats to the end. IF one cat is the end part of a wrongly subst'd template it takes the delimiting comment with it. So if someone wrongly subst's a template, then someone AWB's the article SB will do that. Rich Farmbrough, 08:00 27 April 2009 (UTC).


Rich, in this edit, SmackBot changed (among other things) the template inclusion {{3LW}} to {{3CC}}. Problem: Template:3CC has been deleted, and Template:3LW is a navbox for some preteen-girl singing group. This "fix" should be removed from the bot. Thanks. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 09:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Funnily enough I deleted it. Rich Farmbrough, 09:39 23 April 2009 (UTC).
This is very odd. 3LW was three letter words and redirected to 3CC for three character combinations, but they were both deleted in 2007. SmackBOt has no explicit rule for replacing them, and AWB seems not to either. Rich Farmbrough, 10:01 23 April 2009 (UTC).
Yes it is AWB gen fxes. Rich Farmbrough, 10:06 23 April 2009 (UTC).
<groan> How does stuff like this stay unnoticed for so long? :( Thanks for researching it. R'n'B (call me Russ) 17:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Because all the templates were removed, so the problem didn't express itself until the new 3LW was used on a page hit by an AWB bot with gen fixes. Rich Farmbrough, 18:31 23 April 2009 (UTC).

Hi, Rich. Your bot modified a [citation needed] I put in Roma minority of Hungary. I'm fairly new at editing Wikipedia. When I put a [citation needed] in an article, would it be beneficial to include the date, as your bot did? Bloody Viking (talk) 16:39, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Good to leave it to the bot because it avoids typos. Rich Farmbrough, 06:02 29 April 2009 (UTC).

Wikipedia:List of missing monthly maintenance categories[edit]

Unfortunately Wikipedia:List of missing monthly maintenance categories is not working due to too many expensive parser function calls. I just modified {{DeletedMonths}} to use Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories with missing months. Hopefully this will accomplish your goal. --Pascal666 21:30, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes I know. thanks for the new category. Can you do the same with {{EmptyMonths}}? Rich Farmbrough, 11:12 28 April 2009 (UTC).
Most of them should show up at Wikipedia:Database_reports/Empty categories, but that is a bit of a mess right now, so I created Category:Wikipedia monthly maintenance categories that are empty for you. --Pascal666 21:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Smackbot messes up Major Depressive Disorder Article[edit]

Your bot moves the seealso comment from the Treatment chapter of the Major depressive disorder article to the article title. (see [4][5]) Major depressive disorder is a featured article. Please stop your bot from messing it up. The Sceptical Chymist (talk) 10:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Rich Farmbrough, 07:00 29 April 2009 (UTC).


Hello. I've noticed a batch of edits similar to the one made on the Willy Semmelrogge article that just moved the lifetime template to the foot of the categories. Lifetime acts as a replacement to defaultsort with added parameters, so I'm a bit puzzled to why this edit is being made. Thanks. Lugnuts (talk) 17:15, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

OK reason the articles were edited was probably an attempt to pick up new articles, the reason the template is moved pasththe other cats as part of AWB gen fixes is to put the less important cats at the end. The location of the DEFAULTSORT is not functionally important. Rich Farmbrough, 06:57 29 April 2009 (UTC).

Inclusive Capitalism[edit]

Hello Rich, I saw your comment about "in line" citations and I would be grateful if you can give me an example or two of a sentence you think merits an actual page number citation outside of the ones that are provided on the inclusive capitalism page. Thank you, Ambassadorial.

Hi, thanks for your message, SmackBot does not generally add tags, but merely dates those that are already there. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 06:19 29 April 2009 (UTC).

need help deleting images[edit]

I need to delete a number of images I uploaded due to possible copyright issues can you please tell me how? I cant seem to figure out what to do. One of the images is here: Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Filmnerd (talkcontribs) 03:42, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Give me a list and I wwill delete them Rich Farmbrough, 06:02 29 April 2009 (UTC).

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 27 April 2009[edit]

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Delivered by SoxBot II (talk) at 04:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

SmackBot@Pura Ulun Danu Bratan[edit]

Hi. Your bot just made this edit and I undid a bit of it here. The commons cat bit was fine and I'll try and do that myself going forward. Moving the stub templates to after the categories seems quite wrong to me. The trailing templates of an article should all come after the usual prose but before categories; iwlinks should come very-last. Isn't this all quite standard? Edits such as the one the bot just did are introducing funny extra whitespace into pages. Such things should not be in the pages themselves, but in the templates and css rules per separation of presentation and content. Cheers, Jack Merridew 08:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Stubs go at the end so that the stub categories are at the end of the category list. The problem with the 2 blank lines before the stubs which stop them merging into infoboxes is that the only ways to generate them automatically create more problems and complexity. Most stub taggers know about them and AWB does, if they are missed it's not big deal (stub tags are meant to be ephemeral) so we live with this. Rich Farmbrough, 16:09 29 April 2009 (UTC).
I do put stub templates last for that reason; final categories. My primary irk was that the templates were moved to after the categories, which I've seen as fundamentally not part of the content (which the stubs are); and the iwlinks are not 'content' either, so I've felt that they should be at the end, too; and convention is cats, then iwlinks. The only exceptions I've been making re stubs last are things like coord templates, which I see as metadata, not content. If the missing-coord template's cat should be before the stub-cats, I may need to tweak my approach.
You've obviously been doing a whole lot of this and I'm sure there's a plan, so I'm going to go read up on stuff. I now see that placing the stub templates after the explicit categories gets those cats all the way to the end, so I've just restored that. The two newlines are not unreasonable as setting the stub blurb apart is good. I have been adding top-bot margins to stub templates, which is a better approach.
Another thing I've been doing (example: {{Rivers of Kenya}}) is including a category in a navigation template. This, too, effects cat-order. I've just made a tweak to one to nudge this issue in the right direction. I expect it would be tough to get a bot to reliably do this sort of thing.
Cheers, Jack Merridew 05:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


Hi, About my page "List of films based on war books", some process keeps coming along and blowing away a
that I am using to create two paragraphs in a footnote.

What is wrong with paragraphs in a footnote?

Sincerely, Varlaam (talk) 04:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC) (in Toronto)

Sorry, I meant <br /> . I didn't encapsulate this control code in the 1st paragraph.

Sorry, i think i accidentally shut you off. Nothing is wrong. It was a mistake.[edit]

I think I accidentally shut you off. Sorry about that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nappyrootslistener (talkcontribs) 22:47, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

No problem,. Rich Farmbrough, 08:32 1 May 2009 (UTC).