User talk:Rich Farmbrough/Archive/2011 June

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SmackBot: ibid tagging[edit]

Why did Smackbot tagged here the article with ibid? Every reference is clearly cited (really rarely case)... mabdul 08:12, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

[1]. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:47, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Ups, thanks, didn't read the full edit summary of smackbot. I will contact the other editor... Thanks mabdul 10:13, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

SmackBot dates[edit]

Hi, Rich! Could you please check the rules behind this edit? The census citation template does not have a parameter for the date, nor does it need one. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 27, 2011; 13:33 (UTC)

Known bug. Rich Farmbrough, 17:03, 9 June 2011 (UTC).

Proposed deletion of Lists of characters[edit]

Ambox warning yellow.svg

Rich - I will spare you the usual template nonsense, but this is to notify you that the article Lists of characters has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Neither a proper disambiguation page nor a list of lists; the articles linked below are neither topics known as "list of characters" nor actual lists of characters.

I know you know what you can do about this. Also note that the page is an orphan, so its deletion will not break any links. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 09:20, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

thanks, taken care of. Rich Farmbrough, 17:13, 9 June 2011 (UTC).


[2] Non-substituted. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, as I said AWB does that. Rich Farmbrough, 11:21, 9 March 2011 (UTC).
You are right. I haven't seen the unclosed ref tag. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:57, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


Done. Nedops —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:03, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

SmackBot Tag Duplication[edit]

Deal with it please. I see that others have complained before. (talk) 05:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

It was not duplicating anything, it was dating the tags and changing them to be upper case. Why did you insist on removing the dates? Monty845 05:16, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for dealing Monty. Rich Farmbrough, 00:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

WikiProject Cambridge[edit]

This project may be merged into Wikipedia:WikiProject East Anglia. Wilbysuffolk Talk to me 19:11, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 01:05, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

DL&W gauges[edit]

You added the 6 foot gauge category to the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad. I take it this was an early gauge. ----DanTD (talk) 12:24, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I actually replaced "Category:Six foot gauge railways with 6ft gauge railways." the original cat was added by User:NE2 here, in 2008. Rich Farmbrough, 12:31, 8 May 2011 (UTC).

The Signpost: 9 May 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 02:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

"Wonder Girls" using wikipedia purely for promotional purposes[edit]

There is a Korean band which is managed by The Jonas Group and a Korean company called JYPE - every time there is TRUE and DOCUMENTED information placed on their wiki page it is deleted.

I have to point out that wikipedia does not make it easy for abuses like this to be addressed. I do not even know whether I am contacting the right person by posting this.

It is not right for an entertainment company to use wikipedia like this.

For instance, they keep posting that this group was the first group to break into the Billboard Hot 100 - this is a bit of a lie. They broke into the Hot 100 because they deliberately sold an entire CD for a "bargain-basement" price of $1. A manager for the group admitted this to a Korean newspaper. Please check below:

So to say that they were the first band to break into the hot 100 is NOT a neutral statement. It is a PROMOTIONAL statement. To neutralize this statement it was posted that the cd was sold for $1 - and the reputable Korean newspaper that printed this was cited. This was removed.

There are a NUMBER of factual statement that have been removed.

Please also note that those two articles referenced above were HUGE news stories in Korea. The korea Herald later stated this was the 6th biggest internet story of the ENTIRE year. In that story it was also revealed that young performers were ebing illegally housed in New York and that they were brought into the country in a manner their own president is quoated as saying was "illegal". The performers were also not being covered by health insurance. This is OBJECTIVE and DOCUMENTED. It has to be on this wiki page.

If the TRUTH is withheld from this wiki page then EVERYTHING should be withheld because without the TRUTH you just ahve a PROMO TOOL.

In order to promote this band, HISTORY - important CULTURAL HISTORY is being left off that site.

This is wrong!

I have donated to wikipedia in past fundraising campaigns and I love this site. This site should NOT be used as a PROMO tool.

All the factual and DOCUMENTED information about this group and the way it has been managed has to be reported objectively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frazerrazor (talkcontribs) 03:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Reviewed. Rich Farmbrough, 13:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

Rich, please see this:[edit]

It might seem silly, but take a look. Thanks! User talk:Catfish Jim/Petition --Leahtwosaints (talk) 16:23, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Dusty Hill article, etc.[edit]

Hi Rich. Might you look into User:Willygoat1 ( Special:Contributions/Willygoat1 ) who keeps messing up at least one article ( Dusty Hill ) despite my roll backs to a stable version. Thanks and bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 21:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Investigated. Rich Farmbrough, 20:03, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

Reversal of admin action at Joél Celéstin Filsaime[edit]

Can you please explain why you reversed my admin action at Joél Celéstin Filsaime, and restored the page without prior consultation with me — and with zero edit summary in your log? Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 02:02, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

  1. That did not answer my question.
  2. Why did you perform an admin action — which reverted another admin action — with zero edit summary?
  3. Why did you feel it was so urgent, that the time could not be afforded to consult with me first, drop me a note, and see what I thought about it?

-- Cirt (talk) 02:08, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

  1. It explained your first question. The rest is just detail.
  2. The subsequent edit summary is quite sufficient. I'm sure seeing the reason was not so urgent that you couldn't wait a couple of minutes.
  3. Speedies are not a big deal.
Rich Farmbrough, 02:23, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

Thank you. -- Cirt (talk) 02:16, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes I am of course aware that you have blocked the user in question, and the edit histories of the other accounte are before me. Rich Farmbrough, 02:18, 10 June 2011 (UTC).
Are you refusing my request to undo your admin action and delete the page? -- Cirt (talk) 02:19, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
You seem very excitable about this. I haven't had a chance to look any further, since you arfe delugeiing me with nessages. Rich Farmbrough, 02:23, 10 June 2011 (UTC).
You seem quite quick to reverse other admins' actions with zero consultation, and yet at the same time much more unwilling to undo your inappropriate behavior. Why is that? -- Cirt (talk) 02:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Do you want to discuss my editing habits or look at the issue? I have looked at nothing but this since your first message, but you have not given me a minute to actually perform any analysis. Inundateing my talk page with repeated questions does not help you getwhatyou want, it prevents it. Rich Farmbrough, 02:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC).
You could start stating that in the future you will consult admins before immediately reversing their admin actions. That would be appropriate. -- Cirt (talk) 02:33, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
It's a speedy, not the Big Red Button. That sort of admin stuff is no big deal. I'm sorry if you feel offended by having a speedy reverted, but given the claims the article was not speediable under the grounds given. I was examining the artcile looking to make th ereferences visible to check them when it was speedied. Undeleting it while I did that and assessed the situation was perfectly reasonable. Onc again offending your amour propre was no the intention, I would never be offended if someone reverted a speedy, so naturally I assume others wouldn't be. There is another reaons for htis, however, speedies are gerneally soemthing an admin will go through fairly fast, unlike aan AfD where some tie may be spent on an item, so there is no reason to think a speedying admin has any special knowledge, concern or insight into the article he speedies. Rich Farmbrough, 02:49, 10 June 2011 (UTC).
Thank you for the response. I hope that in the future you think carefully about consulting with other admins, before reversing their admin actions. Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 02:50, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Underground stock[edit]

Hi Rich
See Template talk:Infobox Underground stock#Additional parameters. Peter Horn User talk 22:39, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


Hey Rich, just noticed this edit you made. Was this template replacement a built-in one? If so, it needs to be fixed, seeing as Template:Hospital disambguation does not exist (should be Template:Hospital disambiguation). If not, then please just remove it from your personal rules. These kinds of errors are one of the main reasons why people are upset about large scale cosmetic changes - there is no improvement, but can be errors, leading to either no change or a net loss in quality, obviously it's simply not worth the risk. Also, either way, please stop making edits like these (you shouldn't be making purely cosmetic changes even if they are built into AWB), please take more care when using AWB in the future to examine the edit thoroughly before you hit save. Thanks, - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:07, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Another cosmetic change here, from about an hour ago. Are you looking at these edits before making them? What possessed you to save these, rather than simply hitting skip (which should take exactly the same amount of effort for you and wouldn't be wasting everybody's time)? Also, I noticed you keep adding {{Reflist}} templates to pages, even when those pages have no references to be listed (sometimes you're adding them at the same time as adding an unreferenced template). I'm not quite sure if this is standard practice, but I didn't think it was? - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
I would hope that someone would add references. At this point the references section would come into its own. On many occasions a reference is added but no {Reflist} leaving a red error splattered across the page. As for the white space only edit - I'm sorry if that wasted your time, I have marked the article "unref". And typos, yes they happen, yes they can be fixed, as you may remember I was working on the many thousands that are in the WP 0.8 release when there was all that trouble last September. A task that should have taken no more than a few weeks and is still incomplete largely because people would rather do anything than actually work on the project proper. Rich Farmbrough, 23:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC).
You're not addressing the issue Rich.
  • Was this template replacement a built-in one? No
  • Are you looking at these edits before making them? Yes
  • What possessed you to save these, rather than simply hitting skip? Stuff happens.
  • Is it standard practice to add a reflist template when there are no references (just in case someone adds some)? There's about 170,000 where this is the case.
Could you answer the questions I asked rather than going off on a tangent. - Kingpin13 (talk) 07:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 Done Rich Farmbrough, 17:42, 26 May 2011 (UTC).
Thanks. Is "stuff" going to continue happening? I'm assuming you've removed this replacement at least. How difficult would it be to go through your settings file and remove these template replacements from your rules? You say you looked at the edits, but are you actually registering what you are doing to the page? I'm really struggling to understand what your difficultly is here, is the problem that you don't actually realise what you're doing with the edit? Or is it that you do see and don't care? Or something else entirely? As for the reflist, I would really appreciate if you got a consensus at the village pump before adding these empty sections, regardless of the possible future use. I personally believe they should only be added as needed, rather than pre-emptively, you obviously disagree, and so I think it would be a good idea to ask the wider community. Regards, - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:13, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Yes stuff will continue to happen, because I am not perfect, sometimes the wrong button gets clicked. I have not removed the typo'd replacement because it is not in any lists I have. On reflist, I have done my research on that, 170,000 articles with a reflist template waiting to be used seems pretty convincing evidence that it is reasonably standard practice, and there is no good reason to oppose it on grounds of custom, which was your original question on that matter. And the reason for discussing some of the other stuff I do with AWB is to remind you, as I have stated before, that when I look at an AWB diff. I am looking primarily for things that are wrong and should not be saved, this way of working is not ideally suited to avoiding the odd white-space only save, however I do believe that there are very very few of them, and it is far more important to be checking the text. Moreover I have commenced an analysis of my last 5000 edits, looking for similar edits, and there are no others that are not part of a series of edits in the first few hundred, and only a few white space edits at all. Of course if I am doing spelling checking and mistakenly "correct" parlement to parliament I jump into Firefox and revert self. I have seriously considered doing that if I save something like A.D._Police:_Dead_End_City - because, yes it's nuts, it creates more edits, load etc. negligible though they may be, but really I know someone is going to come along and say "OOh you saved a white-space edit from AWB!" But I don't think that's a good idea. The problem reported in your first sentence, was less of an issue. That was a real problem, it is fully resolved and the first sentence made an nice bug report, fixed, everything is improved, we would both go away happy. Instead of going into the hyperbolic, and hypothetical, simply stick to the facts. Rich Farmbrough, 18:38, 5 June 2011 (UTC).

Merge discussion for Civil Parish of Winterbourne [edit]

Information.svg An article that you have been involved in editing, Civil Parish of Winterbourne , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Skinsmoke (talk) 10:13, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:DGC albums[edit]

Category:DGC albums, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 23:05, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

AWB edit bug[edit]

FYI. You ate the infobox name :) I've fixed it, but you probably need to watch for this in future edits. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 23, 2011; 15:52 (UTC)

I remember asking you once to not replace "Infobox Russian city" and "Infobox Russian town" with "Infobox Russian inhabited locality" (the former two currently redirect to the latter). Could it be related to that?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 23, 2011; 16:39 (UTC)
Fixed, for that particular exercise, need to watch for this problem though. Rich Farmbrough, 21:25, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

Assume typing in wrong location?[edit]

Here - [3] - tho "Exhas a long wayxolon" as my username was amusing. Exxolon (talk) 18:08, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes my PC now deposits characters where the caret was rather than where it is unless I give it plenty of time to adjust to the new location. I would blame Vista, but I think people already know. A reinstall will occur some time in the next N months. Thanks for letting me know. Rich Farmbrough, 20:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC).
No worries, hope you get it sorted :) Exxolon (talk) 21:36, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! Rich Farmbrough, 00:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC).

I am sorry[edit]

I am sorry, Rich Farmbrough, I wish to admit I overreacted a bit in my comments to you at this page earlier. I have two family members who recently both had serious surgery, and I should have taken more time to compose my thoughts in a more kind and polite manner towards you. I apologize about that.

I hope you are doing well, -- Cirt (talk) 23:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

No problem, we all have bad days. Rich Farmbrough, 12:16, 11 June 2011 (UTC).
Rich, thank you so much for the understanding. I appreciate that. -- Cirt (talk) 15:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


references- Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).

secondary sources-

ecil J. Edmonds, Kurds, Turks and Arabs: Politics, Travel and Research in North-Eastern Iraq, 1919-1925, London, 1957. Ely Banister Soane, To Mesopotamia and Kurdistan in Disguise, London 2007 Hitchens, Keith. "Goran, Abdulla", In Encyclopedia of World Literature in the 20th Century. Vol. 2. 3rd ed., completely rev. and enl. Edited by Steven R. Serafin and others, pp. 276-277. Farmington Hills, MI: St. James Press, 1999 Joyce Blau, “Written Kurdish Literature,” in Philip G. Kreyenbroek and Ulrich Marzolph, eds., History of Persian Literature, Companion Volume II: Persian Popular Literature; Literatures in Modern Iranian Languages other than Persian, 2010, pp. 103-28. P. Lory, "Shahrazuri" in The Encyclopaedia of Islam, 2nd edition, ed. by H.A.R. Gibbs, B. Lewis, Ch. Pellat, C. Bosworth et al., 11 vols. (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1960-2002), vol. 9, p. 219 Minorsky, The Tribes of Western Iran, The Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland, pp.73-80, 1945. (p.78) Sadiq Safizade, Pishgouyiha-ye lI-Begi Jaff ('The Prophecies of Il-Begi Jaff'), Teheran 1988 W. Jwaideh, The Kurdish national movement: its origins and development, 419 pp., Syracuse University Press, 2006 Khanai Qobadi, Širin o Ḵosrow, ed. M. M. ʿEbd el Kerim, as Šīrīn ū Ḵusrew, akari ṝ‘irî nawdarî kurd Xanay Qubadi, Baghdad, 1975. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shajaf (talkcontribs) 00:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

That's great. Unfortunately I have no idea which article you are talking about. Rich Farmbrough, 20:02, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

why citation is needed?[edit]

In Sarah Geronimo article: "She is the first Filipino artist to receive a platinum award for a DVD copy of her concert The Other Side in 2005 and is currently the only artist who has a platinum record for 4 DVDs of her concert. Her fourth one was awarded with triple platinum status in December of 2010." - the claim is a fact. It is a fact in the music industry here in the Philippines that she is the only Filipino artist to have a platinum selling dvd's of her concert. You can visit all the major record stores here and ask for it. It was stated before in a Television show ASAP where she performs weekly for this fact. [X] copied from User talk:SmackBot by Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 16:32, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Nonetheless many inflated claims about record sales are made. Platinum discs are generally documented by the awarding body. For this reason they are generally referenced. Note, by the way, that I did not add the citation needed tag. Rich Farmbrough, 21:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

The Signpost: 7 March 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 15:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Category redirects[edit]

Hi, Rich. I see that recently you have started moving pages out of redirected categories into the target categories. I can't tell whether you are doing this manually, but if you are, you might want to know that RussBot does it automatically on a daily basis. No need to waste your time if you don't want to. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 15:36, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich Farmbrough, 23:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC).

Tags you placed on Figaro Systems[edit]

Regarding two tags you placed on Figaro Systems: I disagree that the article reads like advertising and that notability is questionable. The company and its technology have been written about (see the article's refs) in many newspapers and other independent publications. Assistive technology is of interest and importance to various communities and, in fact, is used around the world. I think you overdid on this one. Leoniana (talk) 18:31, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

I think you want [4] someone else. But I agree, broadly with removing the advert tag. notability is always a difficult question, and one I prefer not to make judgements on. Rich Farmbrough, 19:33, 16 May 2011 (UTC).

The Signpost: 16 May 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 02:01, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Ceramic matrix composite[edit]

Thanks for adding the clarify tag in the corrosion chapter. I have added a comment and references and removed your tag. Okay? Since the article is quite technical, I would very much like, if you could find more points, where the article requires better phrasing for better understanding. More references are no problem; I have a list of many books and publications dealing with CMCs. --Leumar01 (talk) 13:08, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks MaterialScientist is your editor of choice here - there's a clue in the name... Looks like a great article. Rich Farmbrough, 14:38, 17 May 2011 (UTC).

Regarding Notability Tag You Placed on Figaro Systems[edit]

Hello, Rich: You (as Smackbot) tagged Figaro Systems as lacking notability. The tag asks for good refs. The refs (more than 20) include articles about the company and its technology from the New Mexico Business Weekly; the Albuquerque Journal; Auditoria; the United States Patent and Trademark Office Patent Full-Text and Image Database; Los Alamos Laboratory; Daily News Bulletin; New York Magazine; Public Radio News and Information in Houston, Texas, KUHF 88.7 FM Houston Public Radio; Entertainment Engineering; Rocky Mountain News (Denver, Colorado); the Santa Fe Opera, Santa Fe, NM; Appliance Magazine; Los Alamos National Laboratory News, Los Alamos National Security, LLC, US Department of Energy's NNSA -- and more. I think that's a reasonable number of good references and more than adequate evidence for notability. Leoniana (talk) 14:30, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Please click on this link (provided in my previous answer) to see who actually added the tag. Rich Farmbrough, 14:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC).

Smack Me template[edit]

I ran across the {{Smack me}} template added to a controversial BLP article [5] and it struck me as something that could be taken in totally the wrong way. While the template doesn't visibly change the page, it really seems problematic to add something labeled {{Smack me}} to the article of a person currently being vilified in press. Maybe it will never be an issue, as it has been around awhile, but I thought I should at least raise it as a potential one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monty845 (talkcontribs)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 07:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC).

AWB bug fix: Less problems with pages partially blanked[edit]

rev 7708 More exceptions to Unicodify character list. Less problems with pages partially blanked. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:08, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 23:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC).

D. B. Cooper[edit]

The edit you made with AWB messed up the internal readability of the citations and references in D. B. Cooper, so I have reverted it. Please turn off AWB's removal of appropriate whitespace and indentation which helps understand nesting of templates. Besides, adding {{Persondata}} to this article is pointless since even his name is unknown. —EncMstr (talk) 23:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. 23:38, 18 May 2011 (UTC)~
Again, it looks like you made the very same edits which break internal readability. Your note on my talk page indicates that the lack of {{persondata}} is causing this? How does that work? Surely you have manual control over what page it selects.... —EncMstr (talk) 01:09, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Yes, however often very large sets of articles are targeted. One setting widely used allows AWB to skip articles when only minor changes are being made. AWB will assume (possibly correctly) that a persondata is required, therefore will not automatically skip the page. Rich Farmbrough, 21:22, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

Stronghold Kingdoms[edit]

Inline citation added as you requested to the Stronghold Kingdoms article. It shows as a quote from Simon Bradbury in the reference section. "Citation needed" now removed. Link to article VoltairSHK (talk) 02:02, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Good stuff. I expect SmackBot dated the tag, rather than adding it though. Face-smile.svg Rich Farmbrough, 21:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC).

The Signpost: 23 May 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 02:16, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


I'm having a bit of a problem with the coding on this page. If you look near the image in the infobox, it has full of coding around it. Could you take a look and see what's wrong? ---StevenBjerke 13:26, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

You only need the image name, the template takes care of the rest. I tidied a couple of other minor problems including removing three sentences of text lifted straight from the board's website. Rich Farmbrough, 00:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC).

SmackBot's edits not marked as bot or minor?[edit]

I noticed that the bot's edit to my templates on Viacom (simple dating) were not marked as minor. Since it's an AWB bot, I can understand this, but it's something you may want to look into :p demize (t · c) 01:32, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

They are marked as bot, you can see this from "recent changes" if you wish. Marking them as minor is probably a good idea. I do find that flag a problem sometimes as people can be unhappy however you set it. Rich Farmbrough, 02:07, 13 June 2011 (UTC).
Oh and AWB makes setting the "minor" flag easy, however SB doesn't use it much these days. Rich Farmbrough, 02:08, 13 June 2011 (UTC).
Ah, took me watchlisting the page to see it. The history should say that it's a bot edit, that confused me :p demize (t · c) 02:21, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the binary 'minor' flag is a pain. Either setting will produce complaints. Sometimes inverting the setting in response to a complaint will produce a complaint in the opposite direction within a matter of hours. There should be a third option: 'No claim regarding minor or otherwise'. Lightmouse (talk) 11:53, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

DEFAULTSORT question[edit]

Hi Rich. I know you do a lot of work in this area, so I thought you might know the answer to this one. Is there any reason for a standalone {{DEFAULTSORT:}} in an article? Example: 52. Or is this just cruft that I can delete if I'm in there cleaning up other stuff? Thanks, 28bytes (talk) 21:26, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Well 53 has the deafaultsort 53. I can see that a defaultsort of 0052 or b00052 or something might make sense, if they were widely categorised. As it is I changed it to match 53. this make it clear that no other "clever" defaultsort is needed. Rich Farmbrough, 21:44, 14 June 2011 (UTC).
Works for me. Thanks Rich. 28bytes (talk) 21:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I found about 200 of these, all fixed, except one. Rich Farmbrough, 08:18, 15 June 2011 (UTC).

SmackBot - ignoring editing tag[edit]

Hi, can Smackbot be instructed to respect the 'editing' tag, please? It is more than a little annoying to complete a long edit only to get an edit conflict due to the bot dating a tag. TerriersFan (talk) 17:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Sure. People usually use the target template - {{In use}} which it knows about. Rich Farmbrough, 18:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC).
thanks. TerriersFan (talk) 21:55, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Done build 613p. Rich Farmbrough, 16:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC).

The Signpost: 13 June 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 01:25, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Why the nbsp in table?[edit]

fig. 1 - some breaking spaces yesterday.

Rich, I reverted twice your insertion on nonbreaking spaces into table items in Overtone. That's not a fix to anything, as far as I can tell, just a complication. Dicklyon (talk) 01:50, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

It's standard to have nbsp between numbers and units. It prevents the sort of thing in fig. 1. Rich Farmbrough, 08:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC).
OK. I thought it had no effect on table items, but I see you've gotten them to break. Dicklyon (talk) 19:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Bad categorical alphabetisation[edit]

Would you mind, if I remove a DEFAULTSORT you've put into Template:Cleanup/doc? C.f. Template talk:Cleanup/doc! Best, JoergenB (talk) 19:44, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Please go ahead! Rich Farmbrough, 19:52, 15 June 2011 (UTC).
I commented on the talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 19:58, 15 June 2011 (UTC).

The Signpost: 2 May 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 23:46, 2 May 2011 (UTC)


Can you add the templates in Category:Côte d'Ivoire subdivision templates to the relative articles using Category:Populated places in Côte d'Ivoire by region as a guidelines as I believe many communes are yet to be added to the templates. The vast majority are completely unused yet contain the articles. Can you use AWB to apply the relative template to the communes by department? Otherwise I fear they'll be deleted as unused.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:28, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Doing. Rich Farmbrough, 20:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC).

Thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Done Rich Farmbrough, 18:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC).

Review on CANCER is Curable NOW[edit]

Thank you for your feedback on CANCER is Curable NOW. I am working on pulling together a list of resources and will edit it soon. Once I have I will let you know so that you can re-review it.

Thank you! Iconcalif (talk) 18:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC) User:Iconcalif

Nero (band)[edit]

Hey just a heads up that your edit here broke the infobox image on the page. I've fixed it already but it might be something to look out for. Cheers, doomgaze (talk) 22:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I let that one slip by. I shall be more careful with infoboxen. Rich Farmbrough, 22:38, 17 June 2011 (UTC).


Hello! I noticed you contributed to Middlesex University entry on Wikipedia. If you studied at that University, please consider including this userbox on your userpage. Simply paste {{User:Invest in knowledge/mdx}} to your userpage. Thank you. Invest in knowledge (talk) 18:17, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't. Rich Farmbrough, 01:13, 18 June 2011 (UTC).

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Swell Records albums[edit]

Category:Swell Records albums, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 03:00, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Vöro or Võro?[edit]

While investigating Wikipedia:Help desk#Expand Language template seems not to work I came by an apparent error and hopefully fixed it in [6] without screwing something up. I saw meta:List of Wikipedias#Languages without ISO 639 language code or duplicated or using incorrect code but I'm not used to ISO 639 and exotic languages. Can you check that I did right and what else should be done in that case? I guess Category:Pages translated from Vöro Wikipedia should be renamed to Category:Pages translated from Võro Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:08, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

The templates were derived form a an ISO 639 list, if the name has changed, was wrong on the list, or we prefer to use a slightly different one, that's fine, (as long as we aren't making any false representations in content). The system is designed to be as simple as possible (although primarily targeted at {{Lang}}) , so the changes you suggest will probably cover everything with a rare language like that. There might be Category:Articles containing Vöro language text. Rich Farmbrough, 09:32, 17 June 2011 (UTC).
{{ISO 639 name vro}} exists and should therefore be used in preference. Rich Farmbrough, 09:37, 17 June 2011 (UTC).
Thanks for looking into this. [7] creates redlinks. I think it should be reverted because the Wikipedia language code is still fiu-vro: and not vro: per number 11 at meta:List of Wikipedias#Languages without ISO 639 language code or duplicated or using incorrect code. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:47, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes, of course you are correct. Rich Farmbrough, 01:12, 18 June 2011 (UTC).

Chaitin's constant[edit]

You made the same edit on Chaitin's constant twice. Could you please explain, on the article's talk page, exactly what the purpose of the edit is? Please note that sortkeys are not case sensitive as of Mediawiki 1.17 [8], and that "minor edit" is not a descriptive edit summary in any sense. — Carl (CBM · talk) 22:16, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Finally bug 164 is fixed? And of course the binomial sorts are partially broken (and irreparable) now. would be useful if really important stuff like this was promulgated a little better. Rich Farmbrough, 11:39, 19 June 2011 (UTC).
Apparently voters don't get emailed when the bug is updated.Rich Farmbrough, 09:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC).

Laman Jegan Joof Article[edit]


I notice that you have placed a {{Clean up}} and {{wikify}} on the Laman Jegan Joof article. Would you please check if it is now OK to remove those remarks?


Tamsier (talk) 18:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello Rich_Fambrough,

I've noticed that you have improved the Laman Jegan Joof article. Thank you very much. The remarks are still there though. Can I remove them and if not what exactly can I do?


Tamsier (talk) 20:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Well the main problem is that the language needs changing, both grammatical problems concerning tenses and so forth, but also to give it an encyclopaedic tone. Possibly you could ask for help at WP:Guild of copy editors. Rich Farmbrough, 20:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC).

Hi Rich Farmbrough,

Thanks for your advise. I will work on the article.


Tamsier (talk) 00:40, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:User pages[edit]

I missed a change that you'd made to this page a couple months back and disagree with it. After being reverted for trying to adjust the section on WP:BLANKING to what I thought reflected consensus, I've started a discussion on the talk page. Your input would be appreciated.--OnoremDil 14:24, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics/Straw poll regarding lists of mathematics articles[edit]

In light of your participation in the discussion(s) regarding the treatment of disambiguation pages on the "Lists of mathematics articles" pages, please indicate your preference in the straw poll at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics/Straw poll regarding lists of mathematics articles. Cheers! bd2412 T 18:40, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Does that mean I get two votes? Rich Farmbrough, 19:30, 23 May 2011 (UTC).
No, but please note that someone has added another option which I think merits a response. bd2412 T 23:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)


User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Template:Talkback2

Femto Bot question[edit]

Hello Rich. I see that your bot currently updates the recent changes list for WikiProject:United States. Could you all set it up to do so for Wikipedia:WikiProject West Virginia and Wikipedia:WikiProject NASCAR? The recent changes page for WikiProject: West Virginia has not been created, and I would assume to put the articles on Wikipedia:WikiProject West Virginia/Recent changes. On the other hand, the best place to add the articles for WikiProject: NASCAR could be Wikipedia:WikiProject NASCAR/Related Pages, unless it has to end with Recent changes. Our projects would really appreciate it. Thanks and happy editing. --[[::User:Nascar1996|Nascar1996]] ([[::User talk:Nascar1996|talk]] • [[::Special:Contributions/Nascar1996|contribs]]) 01:58, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Done, just needs to update. Rich Farmbrough, 09:52, 21 June 2011 (UTC).
Thank you. --[[::User:Nascar1996|Nascar1996]] ([[::User talk:Nascar1996|talk]] • [[::Special:Contributions/Nascar1996|contribs]]) 14:06, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 June 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 15:55, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

SmackBot de-substing[edit]

Hey Rich. I just noticed this edit where SmackBot de-substs the {{Contradict}} template. But I've seen other templates go...errr..."un-de-substed"...for quite some time without intervention. I don't see this in SmackBot's task list. Can you please provide some more info about what gets de-substed and when, just so I'm not needlessly making changes? Thanks! RobinHood70 talk 23:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Ye, it de-substs where the appropriate delimiters are there. The page visit is triggered by the "Articles with incorrectly substed template" category. The entire mechanism was created and built (by me) for when people wrongly subst: a clean-up template, which then cannot be dated properly. This was even more of a problem in days of yore as the categories were explicitly present in would get end-sorted. Sometimes people subst: a template and then break it in complex ways that means it can't be easily de-substed. Rich Farmbrough, 23:20, 24 June 2011 (UTC).
Note that there are two methods of invoking the category, the old hackish one and one built into Ambox/Fix, by MSG. Rich Farmbrough, 23:28, 24 June 2011 (UTC).
The hackish one being the the null namespace check like we're were using in {{Contradict}}? From what you said above, though, it sounds like SmackBot should be taking care of most of them, so I'll still keep an eye on the category, but only fix those that don't disappear. Do you want me to let you know when SmackBot fails to handle something, or is people doing odd things a fairly common occurrence (in this context, that is <g>)? Also, what would be a reasonable time-frame to say "clearly SmackBot hasn't handled this one"? RobinHood70 talk 01:24, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes, the new test is still a little hackish but its invisible, which is important. Do let me know, it's worth seeing if they are possible to code around. Probably a couple of hours, I reviewed the last 5k edits and it looks like about 1 per day is the run rate. Rich Farmbrough, 11:09, 25 June 2011 (UTC).
Okay, that works for me. There was one template I spotted a couple of weeks ago that lacked an end comment (which I fixed, of course), so that explains the issues with that one. I'll let you know if I spot anything else. RobinHood70 talk 20:46, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Fire In The Attic[edit]

I translated the German wikipedia and added some sourches but please correct my grammar mistakes. Greetings Goroth (talk) 14:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Made a few tweaks. Rich Farmbrough, 13:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC).

Multiple issues[edit]

No, not having multiples issues. Quite simply I noticed SmackBot setting a date for a Multiple Issues template. Has Multiple Issues does not use a date parameter, I presume that is not needed. Not a problem either (and good work, smacking those damn dates around!) - Nabla (talk) 12:48, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it actually uses a date for the "expert" setting. To keep life simple it just dates them all (did I say I'm a fan of simple?). Rich Farmbrough, 11:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
OK. - Nabla (talk) 11:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

info[edit] Dear Administrator,

I inform you that I've removed the two web links from the page and I have communicated to have the permission from the author. Would you please tell me how to remove the speedy deletion remove?

Many thanks in advance.

Best regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spiritbritishmusic (talkcontribs) 23:04, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:DNB AA[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:DNB AA has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. — This, that, and the other (talk) 08:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I know you don't like these notifications, but since it's a mass TfD nomination, I thought it would be civil to notify you. — This, that, and the other (talk) 11:46, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

DNB templates[edit]

Hello, Rich. I have posted a question on Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_May_20#Template:DNB_AA that I think is primarily directed to you. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 16:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_June_9#Template:DNB_AA. Rich Farmbrough, 20:05, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

Parameters in Template:Fix[edit]

In relation to this edit/ Doesn't that remove the general category from all articles with a monthly subcategory? I noticed, after testing, that it does leave the general category when no date is specified. In general, the cat parameter may always be removed when a cat-date parameter is present then? Debresser (talk) 15:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I would say so. Rich Farmbrough, 15:26, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
Between us, with a proper doses of humour, and profound agreement, wouldn't you say this is a way of removing all-inclusive categories? Debresser (talk) 15:28, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
It's a step in the right direction, the "reasons" for keeping them are obsolete anyway, and have been for some time. Rich Farmbrough, 15:38, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
I still agree with you on that one. Please let me know if there is anything I can do in connection with that issue. Debresser (talk) 15:44, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 April 2011[edit]

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 10:15, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Move request[edit]

Could you please move Frank Garcia (magic) to its redirect Frank Garcia (magician). Only an admin can do it. Debresser (talk) 22:28, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

 Done Debresser (talk) 03:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


Would it be reasonable to change {{Use dmy dates}} to use {{DMCA}} instead of {{DMCAT}}. None of the other 5 "Use" templates (see Wikipedia:List of monthly maintenance categories given month) do so. In addition, this template is transcluded on only 14 talkpages, out of almost 112,000 (!) transclusions. Debresser (talk) 00:01, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Transclusions eliminated. Debresser (talk) 00:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 Done Debresser (talk) 01:32, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Template:Disambiguation needed[edit]

Smackbot isn't adding dates to {{Disambiguation needed}} from what I can tell, due to the number of pages which are in Category:Articles with links needing disambiguation but which are not in the dated subcategories. Could you add that tag to the list of ones which the bot dates? Thanks! –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 14:23, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh, duh. Just saw the section above about this same thing. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 14:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg Rich Farmbrough, 14:49, 29 June 2011 (UTC).

Argentine images[edit]

Hi Rich. Can you see the Argentina list of images at the bottom of my talk page. They are all PD-AR-Photo public domain in Argentina yet are marked with rationales and non free licenses. Can you use some coding to fix them to the PD-Ar-Photo and remove the rationales?♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Done. Rich Farmbrough, 21:06, 29 June 2011 (UTC).

Thanks mate!♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


Does {{Ambox | cat = Whatever | date = {{{date|}}} }} do the same as {{DMCA | Whatever | from | {{{date|}}} }}? Or are there differences, however slight? Debresser (talk) 01:21, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

It's hard to say for certain that there are no slight differences, Template:Ambox/category is the key, htough it is of course wrapped in {{Cat handler}}, and it looks pretty much the same functionality to me. Rich Farmbrough, 09:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC).
I also looked at both of them, and found it a little too complicated to be sure. I thought you might have researched this functionality before and have a ready answer. In any case, if I'd move category handling from the Ambox to DMCA, even if only to add clarity and conformity with other templates, nobody should get offended, should they? Debresser (talk) 09:27, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
MSGJ's reason for implementing this is to migrate in the other direction. I have discussed the matter with him a little while ago, and the change I think might be useful. It needs some time to pull it all together, and last time I tried to pilot it I got some rather crazy push-back. If I find time I'll look for the discussion. Right now I have other stuff I need to attend to. Rich Farmbrough, 09:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC).

What is this[edit]

Are [9] and [10] some type of test edits? Debresser (talk) 18:46, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

One is un-necessary, the other is a new feature that populates Category:Templates including undated clean-up tags, typically someone will add a "Citation needed" to a navbox, throwing maybe hundreds of articles into an undated cleanup category, until I manually date the tag (having manually searched an item for the transclusion). This makes those templates easier to find. Rich Farmbrough, 18:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC).
Example (with wrong edit summary) here. Rich Farmbrough, 18:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC).
I see. So you intend to revert that edit, no? Debresser (talk) 18:57, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Done, FWIW. Rich Farmbrough, 19:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC).

Substitution checking[edit]

In connection with this subject I have two remarks:

  1. Please see Template_talk:Disambiguation_needed#Prevent_substitution and my question there.
  2. Why is a redlinked Category:Templates needing substitution checking added to Template:Definition, Template:Ambiguous and other templates (even Template:Whatever/Doc's, which seems entirely redundant), even though they do have substitution checking? Debresser (talk) 15:27, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
  1. Commented there.
  2. Same question asked of MSGJ on his talk page.
Rich Farmbrough, 15:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
  1. Discussion continued there.
  2. This edit seems to have resolved the problem. Or perhaps the problem was resolved regardless by something else altogether. Debresser (talk) 15:42, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Where does that category come from at all?? Debresser (talk)
From this edit. Debresser (talk) 15:49, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes its part of fix... Rich Farmbrough, 15:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
here so it's a trackking cat as I thought, just not for what I thought it was. Face-smile.svg Rich Farmbrough, 15:59, 29 June 2011 (UTC).
  1. That's the same edit I found. It's a little above my pay-grade. Do you think it is a good edit?
  2. Why don't all maintenance templates using {{Fix}} have the |substcheck=<includeonly>{{subst:</includeonly><includeonly>substcheck}}</includeonly> line? Debresser (talk) 16:06, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
  1. As far as it goes, to create a temp tracking category.
  2. I suspect that's what the the category is there to track. And both are obsoleted if we install Amalthea's fix. Rich Farmbrough, 17:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC).

Template:Citation needed‎[edit]

I left out the name parameter deliberately since that's only a meta parameter, i.e. only useful if the template is used as a meta template, and never useful when you substitute it. You disagree? Amalthea 19:35, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I suspect that it is of limited value. However since I added the parameter I thought it good housekeeping to keep the unsubst up to date. Rich Farmbrough, 19:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC).
OK. Won't hurt, and it may be less confusing if all used parameters are accounted for. Amalthea 19:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)