User talk:Riyadi

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Grimaldi Man[edit]


I am working on the Cro-Magnon article at the moment, and came across the Grimaldi Man article you made. Unfortunately I don't read French, but I found Keiths book "Ancient types of Man" on-line (see [1], Grimaldi man is the subject of page 58-63). The Grimaldi find has been a favourite subject of racism and Afrocentrism alike, as well as an indicator that our understanding of the peopling of Europe in the Upper Paleolithic may be too simplistic. I feel the article could benefit from some more archaeological facts and a discussion on the affinity of the skeletons. Mind if I have a go? Petter Bøckman (talk) 20:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Please do. The point of view of the French article is that there was no such thing as "the" Grimaldi man. Nor was there really a Chancelade man. I believe that it was indeed Keith's outdated book that Cheikh Anta Diop used as reference. Kind regards. Riyadi (talk) 21:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
p.s. congrats with your exhibition "Against Nature". Riyadi (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I have edited quite a chunk of the article now, but I have a question for you. In some of the sources I have been able to track down on the internet there's a mention of further finds, and of the "Grottes des Enfants" (see picture of finds here: [2]) which seem to at times to have been attributed to "Grimaldi man". It seems all references to this find is in French (which I can't read). Hav eyou come across this find (or other) that has been linked to the Grimaldi find in any of your literature? Before I'm done, I plan to ad a bit about the theories the Grimaldi skeletons has been used to support, from Eurocentrism to Afrocentrism. Petter Bøckman (talk) 21:53, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Hej Petter, I believe that the finds in the Grotte des Enfants are Homo Sapiens Sapiens. There were several caves inhabited several times.Riyadi (talk) 22:02, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the link! Picture no 2 from top is the original Grimaldi skeletons, the two other skeletons are unknown to me. I'll see if I can find a way to translate the site. Petter Bøckman (talk) 22:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
I installed Google Toolbar which translates pretty well and preserves html-style. Sometimes the translation is quite funny. I just tried it on Norvegian (your own Wikipedia page) and it translates the oppvokst from "Han er født, oppvokst og bor i Oslo" in Dutch as you may imagine :) Riyadi (talk) 10:14, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I had my wife reading it, she's better than Google (makes decent food to). The cave systems were a bit of a bother until I came across an older book online: The 1930 Man from the Farthest Past original text. Languagewise Dutch and Norwegians shouldn't be that far apart, but I'm at a miss as to what "oppvokst" would turn out through Google. Let me guess, something rude?
Anyway, I'm more or less done with the Grimaldi man page now. I have put in a lot more on the find itself, and restructured the whole thing. The emphasis is rather different now, as it does not start from the viewpoint that regarding Grimaldi man as a possible separate African immigration wave is racist per se, though racism is certainly covered. The links to Pildown man are also toned down. I may have bugged up some of your quoting, as I do not have access to the original works you quoted. Would you have a look at it and see if I haven't bugged it all up? Petter Bøckman (talk) 20:15, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Hej Petter, the article looks really professional now, it has lost some of the polemical character from my initial indignation when I wrote it, after reading some afrocentric rubbish. Will we have one day a similar article about Leo Testud's Chancelade man? Cheers Riyadi (talk) 10:56, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Thank you! The article is a bit thin on Afrocentrism, feel free to went your ire! As for Chancelade man, I'm not sure what to make of him. Keith seems to think he was an evolved form of Cro-Magnon, and when it comes to anatomy, I trust his instincts. Perhaps just a short article on the find itself would do. Petter Bøckman (talk) 11:54, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

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