User talk:SMasters/Archives/2011/June

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I suggest a name and a possible threshhold as Supreme Triple Crown for 250.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Alt suggestion Divine Triple Crown.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:59, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
To be in line with the other names, I think maybe Marco Polo would be better. – SMasters (talk) 08:44, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Newsletter available for editing

I have started a wrap-up newsletter for the May drive and it is now available for editing, here. Thanks. --Diannaa (Talk) 01:32, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

If you are around, I would appreciate it if you could help send out the newsletter and deliver barnstars. Are you available anytime soon? Thanks --Diannaa (Talk) 15:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I have been snowed under with RL work. I will send out the newsletter today and do the barnstars today and/or tomorrow. Thanks for all your hard work! Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 00:53, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Don't send out the newsletter just yet; I just realised that we need to hold elections for coordinators as well. I will add something about the election to the existing newsletter and we will have to send it out to the whole list. If you have an extra minute, could you explain to me how to use AWB to send out newsletters? I couldn't figure it out. Thanks. --Diannaa (Talk) 01:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
I have created a page for the election at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Coordinators/2011/2 but I don't know how to generate the time-stamp for the FPCnom template. --Diannaa (Talk) 01:51, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
To set this, you need to enter a UNIX timestamp. I use to do the conversion, or just Google and you will find a few sites that will convert it for you. I've already put in the new code. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 05:11, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. If you have reviewed the newsletter and the election page it can be sent out as soon as you have time; the sooner the better if nominations open in 12 hrs. We will sort out who will do which barnstars tomorrow. Logging off --Diannaa (Talk) 05:55, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
No problems. I have put up a list of incumbents on the GOCE elections page. Please indicate if you will be running for re-election. In addition, I have decided not to run, in order to give someone else the opportunity to lead the Guild, and hopefully inject some new ideas and energy into the Guild. However, I would still like to be involved and support the Guild in any way I can. Our rules states that a motion to appoint a former lead coordinator as a coordinator emeritus is made for endorsement during an election. How do you think I can go about this? Thanks. – SMasters (talk) 10:00, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much for offering to continue to support the Guild in this way, and thank you very much for your organisational skills in the first year of the current Guild's operations. What we can do (as usual) is copy how WP:MILHIST does it. Here is a link to an example nomination: Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2008#Referendum on new role for Kirill Lokshin. I can write up a nomination statement for you right away. --Diannaa (Talk) 12:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

In recognition of his term as lead coordinator and his service to the Guild over the course of the last fifteen months, during which he did much to create the project that thrives today, the current coordinators propose that SMasters be appointed Coordinator Emeritus for as long as he wishes to continue in the role. The appointment would be in addition to the coordinators selected in this election. Please Support, Oppose or Comment below.

I will add this to the page once nominations open. --Diannaa (Talk) 12:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Very good, thanks so much! – SMasters (talk) 15:25, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors May 2011 backlog elimination drive report
Writing Magnifying.PNG

Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors May 2011 Backlog elimination drive. Thank you for participating!

GOCE May 2011 backlog elimination drive progress graphs

There were 63 signups for the drive; of these, 45 participated. Although we did not award a bonus for articles from the Requests page this drive, we are not experiencing lengthy delays in getting the articles processed. Many thanks to editors who have been helping out at the Requests page and by copy editing articles from the backlog.

Progress report

During the month of May we reduced the backlog by approximately 10%, and made remarkable progress on eliminating articles tagged from 2009. There are now only 15 articles left, down from the 415 that were present when the drive started. Since our backlog drives began in May 2010 with 8,323 articles, we have cleared more than 54% of the backlog. A complete list of results and barnstars awarded can be found here. Barnstars will be distributed over the next week. If you enjoyed participating in our event, you may also like to join the Wikification drives, which are held on alternate months to our drives. Their June drive has started.

Coodinator election

The six-month term for our first tranche of Guild coordinators will be expiring at the end of June. We will be accepting nominations for the second tranche of coordinators, who will also serve a six-month term. Nominations will open starting on June 5. For complete information, please have a look at the election page.

Please feel free to contact any coordinator if you have any questions or need assistance. Your project coordinators are S Masters (talk), Diannaa (Talk), Tea with toast (Talk), Chaosdruid (talk), and Torchiest (talk).

Sent on behalf of the Guild of Copy Editors using AWB on 08:25, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Imperial Triple Crown Jewels candidate

Hello, SMasters. I have listed myself on the Triple Crown nomination page. When you have a chance, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at the list. Many thanks. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 09:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

OK, I'll try to clear the nom page this weekend. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 09:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for the recognition. Am I suppose to update WP:STEEPLE or wait until you do it?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:05, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I am supposed to update it but if you have time and can help, I won't complain. Face-smile.svg Just remember to use the special picture used for your award. If you don't get to is, I should be doing a whole lot of updates tomorrow. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 15:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

GOCE May barnstar

Working Man's Barnstar Hires.png The Working Man's Barnstar
This barnstar is awarded to SMasters for copy edits totalling over 8,000 words in the GOCE May copy edit drive. Thank you very much for your support! Diannaa (Talk) 01:54, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar delivery

Hi, SMasters. I have done a lot of the barnstars, focusing on people who only won one award. If you could please deliver some of the remainder and I will ask Chaosdruid to do some too. Please make sure Chaosdruid is one of the people you deliver to. Thanks. ---Diannaa (Talk) 03:16, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

OK, thanks for doing so much work! Will get to this in in the next few hours. Cheers! – SMasters (talk) 03:17, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Imperial Triple Crown Jewels

Thank you for the award. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 16:43, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome, and well done! – SMasters (talk) 16:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Signpost editing

I don't like it when Signpost editors chop words out of my comments, combine separate answers, or generally mess with my prose. I didn't like it when Tony1 did it to my piece on Featured Sounds. I didn't like it the first time I was part of the WikiProject article, and I don't like it this time around. I kept quiet after the first one because I changed most of it back at the last minute. I kept quiet the second time around because I told myself that I would never contribute to the signpost again. Then I contributed this time around because there were only two people there, and I had serious doubts on anyone else showing up; I'd rather not have books embarrassed by the revelation that only one of the 20 members actually does any work there anymore. I made a few changes to your changes, put one piece of text into the additional questions section, and while I'm still rather miffed, I can accept it as it is now. That being said, the [. . .] is a in my opinion a ghastly writing device, so I don't want it attached to my comments. Finally, I removed the date in the description you built for me. It's technically correct, but at the same time is misleading. I won't go into it here, but suffice to say that when people ask me when I started editing Wikipedia actively, the date I give isn't in 2010. Sorry if this is harshly worded. I respect what you do and I understand that Signpost articles are edited, I just don't feel comfortable with my comments being refactored. It's one thing for article prose to be reworked, it's an entirely separate thing for a comment with my name attached to it to be changed. Sven Manguard Wha? 08:09, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry if you feel that I've misrepresented you in any way. If you look at most of my past articles, I usually put the entire piece in prose. However, due to time constraints, I have left this article in an interview format. My job requires me to do several things. Some of these include taking out irrelevant information (some writers allow simleys, casual language, etc.). I tend to like things a bit more formal, and will remove all of these. I also check for factual accuracy, Most importantly, I need to make the article readable, concise and interesting for our readers. One of the big problems I have with this particular article is that it is already too long, and I need to cut it to make it more concise. For example, the question regarding the WikiProject collaboration refers to inter-Project collaboration, and not personal collaboration. As two of the answers that were given would not really add value to our readers in terms of what I was trying to achieve, I decided to remove that question. But you had quite a good answer, so I decided to leave you answer in, but weave it into another question so that it still makes sense. Let's put it this way. I work in the media industry. If this was an interview for a magazine, I would call you, talk to you on the phone, and next thing you know, you will see it in print. At least here, you do have an opportunity to try to frame things back to how you think it should be framed. But ultimately, editing decisions, at the Signpost or magazines or newspapers in the real world, ultimately lies with the sub-editors who work on the articles. – SMasters (talk) 08:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
You're conducting an interview. You ask questions. People give you answers. If you don't like those answers, then you can either omit the question, ask the interviewee to rephrase, or run the answer as is. You don't get to change what the person says, not even a little, doing so is unethical. If you want formal answers in proper, serious language, you need to frame the discussion ahead of time by saying exactly that. As for your time constraints argument, not to be overly antagonistic, but I don't buy it. I received notice for last interview I had for the Signpost (back on the article on WikiProject Articles for Creation) days, maybe even weeks before it was set to run. Had I a mind to, there was sufficient time to go through several revisions in that interview before it 'went to print'. I also know that the projects interviewed are chosen well in advance. I'm sorry, but saying that there isn't enough time to do right by your interviewer just dosen't cut it. I doubt I'll be happy with the finished product no matter what happens now. I'll be really pissed if you cut me out entirely, pretty pissed if undo the changes I just made, and mildly pissed even if it runs as it is now. I said it to myself before and I'll say it in public now; this is the last time I write for the signpost. Even if I were given total editorial control over my comments, at this point I don't like what the institution of the Signpost stands for. Sven Manguard Wha? 08:57, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
I did not change the facts of what a person said. I did make factual and stylistic corrections. You typed, "Our collection of material on say 'Great Women Scientists of the 20th Century' would not (also, someone would have to create a Wikipedia-Book on 'Great Women Scientists of the 20th Century'). Books". I clarified this. If I did not, our readers would not understand this sentence properly as it is confusing. Headbomb typed: "Start up the book creator (or create them manually), if you have ideas for on hundred books, there's probably 98 of them that don't already exist, and the other 2 can always use extra attention." He obviously means "for 100 books", and not "for on hundred books", so I fixed this. This is not unethical. In regards to the timeline, I'm just telling you how I normally style my articles, I'm not trying to argue about anything. As it is, this is a thankless job, and I have tried my best. So far, I have never ever received any complaints. You are the first. I'm sorry that I can't please you. This article is nearly ready to go. I never once said I would pull it or omit you, so I have no idea what you are going on about. You say, "I'll be really pissed if you cut me out entirely, pretty pissed if undo the changes I just made, and mildly pissed even if it runs as it is now." – looks like you will be pissed whatever I do, so I guess there's just nothing I can do. So be it. I'm tired and I've given this a lot of my time. I give up. – SMasters (talk) 09:23, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry about last night. I don't like having my comments tweaked, I'm very protective my own voice (on the internet, it's really all you've got). That being said, I went overboard on you, and I owe an apology for it. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:22, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
OK. I hope the final product will help your WikiProject attract new participants, and renew interest in WP-Books. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 08:01, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I'll join in and say I didn't not appreciate several rewordings. Trivial changes like "for on hundred" when I meant "for one hundred/100" are obviously no big deal, but you've recasted my comments in many places, omitted entire sentences in others, merge two answers to different questions into one answer to one question, etc... Not cool. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 08:11, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

You've obviously never been inside the sub-editing room of a newspaper or magazine. The vast majority of the edits were cuts. Yes, I had to cut out entire sentences if I don't see it adding value to the article, or if it is just not needed. I also needed to make the article shorter, so cuts were unavoidable. You know, you just can't please everyone. When a Singpost writer does absolutely nothing to the copy, people say, "Oh, you should have told me you would use all of this verbatim." When another writer decides to polish an article for readability, clarity and space, they say, "You changed what I say and cut out lots of stuff." I did decide to take a response from another question and included it, with [. . .], tagged to another question. This is because I wanted to drop the question for space as well as a few other editorial reasons. Since there was an objection, I dropped the second response altogether. I've interviewed around 28 Wikipedians for 6 articles, and not a single complaint. I decided that it would be a good thing to promote WP-Books to a wider audience, but now, it just seems that it has just come back to bite me. Now, that's not cool. – SMasters (talk) 08:54, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
After reading the comments put in "public" on the published article, now, I am livid! What nonsense are you going on about? I try to help promote your project and make you look and sound good and you are angry? I should have just left all that crap that was written and not even put my name to that article. I am mad! – SMasters (talk) 14:35, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
I took several interviews in my life, including in the Signpost and I have to say this is the first time my comments were edited to this extent. You could have checked with us first if these were acceptable rewordings, but you didn't and I have little time to point every specific thing. The Signpost is free to edit my comments I suppose, but if that happens, I'm also free to complain publically about it. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 16:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Triple Crown

Thank you very much for the Triple Crown. However, you have mentioned my edits are mainly in the field of US roads, which is incorrect. Harrison49 (talk) 12:21, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh dear, I'm so sorry about this. I got distracted and missed this. I'll change it now. Once again, congrats on the award. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 14:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks from me as well, much appreciated. Argyle 4 Lifetalk 23:05, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
You're all welcome, and well done! – SMasters (talk) 08:02, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 June 2011

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 01:18, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Guild Scope and After Backlog

Hey SMasters, I was recently on this page and saw this. I know our main concern is the article namespace, but do you think we might dedicate some resources to maintaining other namespaces? As a copyeditor, some of this writing makes me cry Cry.png. I really hope we can do something about it. Perhaps we could have a drive or another event where we proofread all of the articles in the Wikipedia namespace? It would definitely help the encyclopedia's image for editors. Just a thought, and I know we're busy, but I think we should at least have it in the future plans. I mean, that backlog keeps going down, and it will run out, right? So we need to think about what we do after that to stay active. One thing could be to proofread existing pages that have never been copyedited (going by absence of GOCE templates on their talk pages). Another could be to proofread new pages that are created or substantially modified, but that one seems a bit unrealistic.
Let me know your thoughts, Bronsonboy HQ.
14:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)



I have just finished a copyedit of Dennis Elwell (astrologer). This article had generated much acrimony, in fact warring, between two editors which can be seen on the article talk page and the relevant users’ talk pages – I have not seen the like. I managed to negotiate a truce and have worked on the article for many hours as an accepted neutral party. Part of the deal with these editors was that I would try to get a review from two editors who I know are very experienced. I set out my stall on Talk:Dennis Elwell (astrologer), and I think I have gone as far as I can.

Problems might be the veracity of citations, but I made no judgment through the extreme sensitivities involved.

I am hoping that you and/or User:Ohconfucius, (who has been tough on my edits – particularly my weakness in lists) will look at the article, pass judgment, and make any adjustments that you feel fit.

Many thanks. Acabashi (talk) 18:25, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 June 2011

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GOCE coordinator election

I noticed that there are only four candidates this time, and since there's four positions, I think we need at least one more candidate. Perhaps we could keep the nominations open for an extra five days, along with keeping the voting period open. What do you think? The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs 01:01, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

That's OK with me. Can you please help change any necessary copy? I'm really tied up with work this month. Thanks! – SMasters (talk) 01:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Oregon Project Triple Crown nomination

Hi SMasters. I'd like to nominate User:Another Believer for an Oregon Project Triple Crown. Among AB's many accomplishments are a recent GA for Hands Across Hawthorne (contributors), an FA for Rufus Does Judy at Carnegie Hall (contributors), which recently appeared on the Main Page, and a recent DYK for Laurelhurst Park (User talk:Another Believer#DYK for Laurelhurst Park). Yours, Finetooth (talk) 04:58, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Please put all Project TCs on the Nomination page. Just put what type of "Triple Crown" the nomination is for in the heading as per the template. I need a record of the nom on that page. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 05:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I added AB to the bottom of the Oregon Project TC. I hope that's what you meant for me to do. Thanks for taking all this on. Finetooth (talk) 05:27, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Oh, no, haha. Misunderstanding. You are supposed to add it to Wikipedia:Triple Crown/Nominations, under current nominations. We need this in case anyone want to check or there are any complaints. So, we practice this to ensure transparency. – SMasters (talk) 05:37, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I'm kind of a dim bulb late in the evening. Hours later, the sun has once again risen, and I can see more clearly. I think I have got it right this time. Thanks for your patience and good humor. Finetooth (talk) 16:34, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Another AWB request

Hi, SMasters. I was wondering if you would have time to send out a reminder for people to voice their opinions on our GOCE election using AWB once the voting starts? Thank you. --Diannaa (Talk) 14:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

OK, will do it tomorrow. :) – SMasters (talk) 17:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. --Diannaa (Talk) 18:34, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
We are not getting many voters, so if you could find the time to remind people over the weekend that would be great. Thanks. --Diannaa (Talk) 03:40, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I have not had much time. Will definitely get it done this weekend. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 04:18, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

WP Report

Have you had an opportunity to pick a project for the June 27 WikiProject Report? I'd like to include the teaser in the upcoming issue. -Mabeenot (talk) 01:46, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

No, not yet. Any suggestions? I was going to have a look this weekend and start the process. – SMasters (talk) 03:11, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
How about WikiProject Cycling since the Tour de France starts on July 2. Some other projects I've noticed that have been particularly active are WikiProject Albums, WikiProject Comics, and WikiProject Philosophy. -Mabeenot (talk) 14:42, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Comics sounds like fun. I'll do that. Thanks for the suggestions. – SMasters (talk) 07:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

GOCE elections

Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors
Writing Magnifying.PNG
GOCE Coordinator.png

Elections are currently underway for our Guild coordinators. The voting period will run for 14 days and ends on June 30, 23:59 UTC. All GOCE members in good standing, as well as past participants of any of the Guild's Backlog elimination drives, are eligible to vote. The candidate with the highest number of votes will become the Lead Coordinator, therefore, your vote really matters! There is also a referendum to appoint a Coordinator Emeritus. Cast your vote today.

Sent on behalf of the Guild of Copy Editors using AWB on 08:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Triple Crown

Thanks for the Triple Crown award. However, I believe I was only intended to receive the Oregon-related TC award. I saw that you added my username to the list of TC recipients even though I have already received the Imperial Napoleonic Triple Crown Jewels. Just wanted to let you know so that you could update your recipient list. Thanks again! --Another Believer (Talk) 17:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Ah, sorry. Can you please help me remove them? Thanks and congrats on the project award! – SMasters (talk) 10:14, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

GOCE coordinator elections

We're reaching the end of the extended nomination period, and we still only have four candidates. I'm about to nominate a few different users. Do you think we should create a template for this? (we could put it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Coordinators/Nomination, or something along those lines) The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs 18:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

You could do that, or you could do it without a template (a bit more personal IMHO). It's up to you, but please go ahead whichever way you decide to do it. Cheers, and thanks for helping out. – SMasters (talk) 22:33, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Scott Peterson

Information.svg An article that you have been involved in editing, Scott Peterson, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.  pablo 13:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 June 2011

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 15:59, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Pics in WP Comics report

Someone will probably give you a hard time about the copyrighted pics. I'm not sure how far the fair-use rationale extends to the Signpost, so check with Haeb to make sure we're in the clear. The pic of Carl Barks signing comics should be fine either way. -Mabeenot (talk) 22:06, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Why were all these cleared in the FA process? These pics were from FA articles. I'm quite busy this weekend. If you have time and would like to change the pics, please do go ahead. Thanks! If not, I will try to check with Haeb on Sunday. Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 02:18, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Looks like User:Δ already cleared the pics out, citing the "Non-free content is allowed only in articles" part of NFCC. That's probably why they're ok for a FA but not for stuff in the Wikipedia namespace like the Signpost. I'll find some more pics tomorrow. -Mabeenot (talk) 02:30, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Ah, OK. I'll also add some generic pics tomorrow when I have some time. Thanks for the heads-up. – SMasters (talk) 02:32, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Harold Pinter

Hi, as someone who has done valuable work on the above, I wonder if you would care to take a look at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Harold Pinter/archive1. Cheers. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:37, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Copyedit barnstar.png

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Copyedit barnstar.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 15:34, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 June 2011

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 01:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

July drive


Anything left to do in preparation for the drive before the 30th? Chaosdruid (talk) 01:46, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of. However, once it starts, the ombox needs to be changed, an offer needs to be put on the Reward Board (please see copy from past offers), and the Drive userbox needs to be updated to say "Current drive". Cheers. – SMasters (talk) 22:43, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Utahraptor will help launch the drive and clost off the election, as I will be on an airplane. I have asked for a sidebar in the next Signpost. --Diannaa (talk) 23:52, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
OK, I will be doing the graphs as usual. Have a safe flight! :-) SMasters (talk) 00:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
KK - If not changed, I will change the drive box at 01:00 GMT (00:00 UTC) and then check the others later. Chaosdruid (talk) 19:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)