User talk:SNUGGUMS

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My talk page. Leave me messages here. Post new threads at the bottom of the page. I can also be contacted through email.

Ethnic identity[edit]

Hey SNUGGUMS, you often edit the leads of articles. What do you think about people being describing as "Chinese-American" or comparable ethnic identities? An IP (who I suspect is a block evader from years ago who also edited the same article) claimed earlier today on Zhu (musician) that them being Chinese-American isn't relevant to their work as an artist, and tried to say it was exclusionist/racist to "pigeonhole" them in this way. I don't agree that it's exclusionist/racist, but I somewhat agree that sure, being Chinese-American it isn't particularly relevant to their work, but then where does that argument end? We can go further and ask if being American relevant to what they do. (Doesn't matter if you don't know much about Zhu in particular—nor do I really.) Ss112 07:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't know much about Zhu either, Ss112, but MOS:BIO says to just use nationality in opening sentence unless maybe something like religion or ethnicity is a key defining trait. Snuggums (talk / edits) 11:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Shane Filaner email[edit]

Did you receive any email from the user? I got one where he confirmed about socking and asked his old account to be unblocked with promises of never adding false sales again. —IB [ Poke ] 03:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes I did, and he asked for another chance, but I of course told him that it was too little and too late even if sincere. Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:28, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

You've got mail![edit]

Hello, SNUGGUMS. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.Ss112 09:47, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Sent a reply. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:12, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Regarding your revision on Spyro (character)[edit]

Regarding your revision on Spyro (character), Spyro the Dragon is also known as Spyro. His shortened name was not mentioned more than one in the opening sentence. Interqwark talk contribs 04:31, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm well aware that he's known under both descriptions. In case it wasn't clear before, I meant that using the name "Spyro" more than once in opening sentence is needlessly repetitive and was just stating the obvious. Snuggums (talk / edits) 11:40, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
It’s not obvious that he’s also (and more commonly) known as simply “Spyro” unless it’s mentioned. Per MOS:ALTNAME, the lead section should mention notable alternate names for the the subject person or character. From MOS:ALTNAME: These may include alternative spellings, longer or shorter forms …
A shortened or lengthened version of the person’s or character’s name is usually mentioned in the lead. It’s not at all redundant. Interqwark talk contribs 23:07, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Inclusions of shortened names for clear derivatives would if anything be more like using Willard Carroll "Will" Smith Jr. for Will Smith or Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) for the MCU franchise. This isn't like E3 being a less obvious name for Electronic Entertainment Expo, Jumpman for Mario, King Koopa for Bowser, or Princess Toadstool for Princess Peach. When the article title already includes just "Spyro" before (character) as opposed to using "Spyro the Dragon (character)", it doesn't take much to figure out that "Spyro the Dragon" is known more as "Spyro", or the article title would also include "the Dragon" otherwise. That's why I said it was repetitive to more than once use the "Spyro" name in the opening sentence. Any English-language reader can already easily determine that on their own. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:28, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
The lead makes it seem like Spyro is only known by “Spyro the Dragon,” even though his most common name is “Spyro.” If anything, the lead should just mention “Spyro,” not “Spyro the Dragon.” I often see something like “XY, or simply Y” on Wikipedia, and I don’t see a problem with it.
Anyway, for a third opinion, which I think would be useful, I’ve started a discussion about this on the talk page for the article. There hasn’t been a proper discussion on that talk page in seven and a half years, so let’s hope that changes. Interqwark talk contribs 01:28, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia is Inaccurate[edit]

Funny how some information is considered "incorrect" yet Wikipedia is the most unreliable source known to people with common sense.-NoReply — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CE10:8BC0:B40C:7F18:A5A8:D1F7 (talk) 02:35, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

The so-called "common sense" isn't all that common, so that term is basically meaningless as an argument for claims and hard to take seriously. While it is true that Wikipedia itself shouldn't be cited as a source, though, you blatantly fabricating years makes things worse. Snuggums (talk / edits) 09:58, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


MLA format for citations: MLA Citing Format often includes the following pieces of information, in this order: Author's Last name, First name. “Title of Source.” Title of Container, other contributors, version, numbers, publisher, publication date, location. I am not "overfilling", I'm using the correct form. Treybien (talk 09:58, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes you are overfilling them when MLA format isn't what Wikipedia goes by; the site uses Chicago style if anything, and not that many parameters are supposed to be used regardless. Snuggums (talk / edits) 09:42, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day[edit]

Edit day.svg Happy First Edit Day, SNUGGUMS', from the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Kpgjhpjm 16:01, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Many thanks Kpgjhpjm, and it's hard to believe I registered this account exactly five years ago! Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:42, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Regarding my question about Christina Grimmie...[edit]

Hi, thank you for replying to my comment on the talk section of List of fandom nicknames, that page. I didn't know how to reply back to you, so I'm here to continue the convo. So here are some official sources from Christina or one of her family members stating her fandom nickname as "Team Grimmie" What do you think, is this credible resource? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joey kl22 (talkcontribs) 03:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Far better than simply fan comments, but would be preferable to have something that more explicitly says that is the fandom's name. See this piece used for multiple fanbase names within the article to get an example of what you should opt for. Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Witness by Katy Perry[edit]

Hi, SNUGGUMS, could you add platinum certification on the album page? because I can not because it is protected. here is the link. (I'm sorry for my English, I'm Italian). thank you so much. (talk) 08:46, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what language this document is in or what territory the certification is for. Snuggums (talk / edits) 20:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Evita (1996 film)[edit]

Does it look correct to you? —IB [ Poke ] 17:32, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes it does, and I've added my support! Snuggums (talk / edits) 20:29, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Re:July 2018[edit]

Um…hi. Why they aren't reliable sources? When I posted them in Polish Wikipedia they (admins) said that they (sources) are ok, so what's a difference? :/ Sorry for taking your time, infsai (dyskusja) 21:13, 14 July 2018 (UTC).

Please read WP:Identifying reliable sources, especially if you haven't already. We need sources that overall are trusted to be accurate, and I sadly can't say any of the links you inserted have that much trust. In particular, Wikia and Discogs are known to often have dubious claims added by random people without concern for accuracy. This means no fansites are supposed to be cited. Whoever accepted them in the Polish Wikipedia quite frankly shouldn't have, admins or not. Snuggums (talk / edits) 21:30, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
Oh…I really added Wikia to this article? I didn't remembered, but probably I did that, eh… What about ''? Is it reliable source – in my previous messege I was talking writing about it. Sorry for wasting your time for that stupid person that I am. :/ infsai (dyskusja) 23:16, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
You aren't stupid and there's no need for the self-deprecating remarks. If anything, you just had the wrong idea of what to use. The fact that you're trying to improve upon it is already a good sign. As for, that unfortunately is a fansite and therefore not usable as fans can often embellish claims when there's no editorial oversight. The author is a friend of mine and I once tried to cite it myself back in 2013, but it was rejected as subpar and I was asked to instead cite whatever sources it used for claims. Snuggums (talk / edits) 00:20, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Aha, ok… infsai (dyskusja) 13:30, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Life with My Sister Madonna[edit]

Hi Snuggs. I recently created this article for which you were the first editor to create the redirect. I was wondering can you suggest me something for a good DYK entry? —IB [ Poke ] 04:49, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello IndianBio. I'll have to get back to you on that once I think of something good. Snuggums (talk / edits) 11:59, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
Did you have a chance? Else we will loose the time-frame. —IB [ Poke ] 06:00, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Probably something involving how the book helped him deal with his strained relationship with Madge would be best. I should have a more specific sentence within the next 24 hours, and the DYK deadline in this case is in four days. Snuggums (talk / edits) 11:17, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
UPDATE: I've now submitted something for it, see Template:Did you know nominations/Life with My Sister Madonna. Snuggums (talk / edits) 01:48, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
You are the best SNUGGS! <3 —IB [ Poke ] 03:18, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Many thanks for that :) Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:27, 28 July 2018 (UTC)


Hi. Why do you think it is a WP:NPOV issue to call Brokeback Mountain a tragic romance? Our guideline states that we should represent "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." In this case, BB has been referred to as a tragic romance, here and here, among many other sources. --Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:35, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Because "tragic" is a blatant personal opinion (as is calling something sad aka a tragedy), Krimuk2.0, and thus is inappropriate to use in articles outside of quotes or titles. The number of sources using such a term doesn't justify inserting bias into a page. Snuggums (talk / edits) 14:03, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
What do you think of this, Moisejp and Aoba47? --Krimuk2.0 (talk) 17:54, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
I'm afraid I don't have a strong opinion about this. Ideas for compromise: something like "ill-fated romance" or "anguished romance" (it's objectively true they felt anguish, regardless of whether the reader thinks it's sad—as long as it's close enough to what is in the sources). Moisejp (talk) 18:23, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
If either of those, I would go with "anguished romance", which is much more objective than using "tragic". Snuggums (talk / edits) 18:33, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
  • That is an interesting question. Whenever I use genre for music-related articles, I always support it through a source that clearly identifies the subject with that particular genre to avoid concerns with personal opinion and original research. I respectfully disagree with SNUGGUMS on this part (Because "tragic" is a blatant personal opinion) as a tragedy is its own genre with its own separate literary and film history and techniques. If tragic romance is viewed as unacceptable, then I would also veto the proposal for "anguished romance" as "anguished" is not really a genre and it just does not read right to me. Aoba47 (talk) 19:00, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Is simply "romance" perhaps the best option after all? Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:11, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Adding to my above message, I just wanted to clarify that I had assumed that the question was about the film article itself (i.e. for identifying the film's genre in the first line of the lead or something like that). However, now I understand that it is about the Michelle Williams page. I think using "anguished romance" in that context should be fine if that is an agreeable compromise. Though I personally think just saying "romance" would be the best answer, and if the reader wants to learn more about it, then they can click the link to the film. Aoba47 (talk) 19:14, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
I'm okay if everyone's in agreement. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 19:29, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
No objections to just keeping it as "romance". Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:33, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Either "romance" or "anguished romance" is fine with me. Moisejp (talk) 19:35, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Twinkle Help[edit]

Hello! I was wondering how you revert edits to the last revisions of an article using Twinkle and having it tagged as "undo" at the end of the edit summary, i'm new to using it. I would appreciate the help! Regards – Braxton C. Womack 02:57 30 July 2018 (UTC)

To be honest, I have no idea how that works. Sorry for not having a helpful answer. Snuggums (talk / edits) 02:59, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
That's ok! I saw it on the Ashley Tisdale revision history and was just curious. Thanks for the relpy! Braxton C. Womack 03:07, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Manchester by the Sea, Tragedy vs. Drama[edit]

I didn't express a personal opinion that something is "sad". Tragedy is a genre with tropes and Manchester by the Sea fits those tropes. It's a genre of suffering. Lee Chandler fits the trope of disproportionate retribution. According to Aristotle, the protagonist must be punished for an error, but with the punishment spectacularly exceeding the crime. As he himself punishes himself, punished by his ex wife and by the entire community of Manchester by the Sea for a mistake he made that isn't entirely his fault as it was merely an accident. Another tragedy trope is unsuccessful redemption. Lee endeavoured to make up for his mistakes by doing right by his nephew but couldn't because his past mistakes ate at him despite all that he tried. Grief, despair and loss are major themes in tragedy especially in reference to the loss of innocent lives. And another trope in tragedy is tragic mistake in the story that leads to the protagonist's downfall. That being Lee forgetting to put a shield in front of the fireplace because he was drunk. After everything I presented to you. Another trope in tragedy is choice and it's often a difficult one and that being Lee raising his nephew or leaving him with others while he goes to live his life somewhere away from Manchester by the Sea. A choice he contemplated throughout the entire film. How exactly did I determined Manchester by the Sea being a tragedy by it merely being "sad"? Do I need to quote Poetics by Aristotle or something? Or maybe quote famous tragedians like Sophocles, Seneca, Shakespeare, Racine etc. Tragedy is a genre of suffering and not sadness. A story can be sad at some point in any genre. Manchester by the Sea fits tragedy because it deals with themes such as grief, unsuccessful redemption, tragic mistakes, disproportionate retribution, difficult choices, loss and yes despair. Tell me how Manchester by the Sea isn't a tragedy? And how did I express a personal opinion when the director Lonergan himself called Manchester by the Sea a tragedy in many interviews?! IceBrotherhood 9:59 08 August 2018 (UTC)

IceBrotherhoos, you implied that it's sad by calling it a tragedy, and thus are inserting a subjective term as not everybody has the same view on what is or isn't sad. Tragic is of course a synonym for sad. Directors have personal opinions on their works too but that's not an excuse to use biased terminology in articles. Snuggums (talk / edits) 11:59, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
SNUGGUMS No, I did no such thing. You by what you're doing you're implying tragedy isn't a genre, just that it means something is "sad". Tragedy like most words have more than one meaning. I'm referring to the genre of tragedy. Tragedy is a genre about suffering and despair and Lee's story is definitely one of tragedy and suffering. Implying sorrow because a word is associated with it isn't within my control and regardless tragedy is a genre meant to invoke catharsis after the displays of sorrow and despair. It's cathartic for people to watch tragedies. Tragedy isn't a biased word it's a genre that has existed for over 2500 years. By your very definition all words are biased such as happy or sad or conservative or liberal. What you're doing is trying to erase a genre because the word invokes feelings of sorrow. Genres and what feelings their name invoke are two different things. If so do you wish for me to quote tragedians for you to understand what the genre is all about? You are biased by not even heeding the words of the director's himself. Thus you are the bias one. Genres and feelings are two different things. IceBrotherhood (talk/ edits) 23:28, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
You're blatantly exaggerating what I would deem biased. Don't try to accuse me of being biased or attempting to "erase" any genre when I'm opting for a more neutral term by using "drama". Snuggums (talk / edits) 12:00, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
What I'm saying is that tragedy and drama aren't interchangeable. They're not the same genre. Tragedy and comedy are on the opposite ends of the spectrum and drama is in the middle. Tragedy and drama aren't the same genre. Thus how is drama a more neutral term for tragedy when they're not the same genre? Dramas can exist without suffering and the almost all don't have suffering but tragedies are by nature about suffering. Snuggums (talk / edits) IceBrotherhood (talk/ edits) 11:38, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
In case it wasn't clear, what I mean is that "drama" doesn't have the slanted connotations that "tragedy" carries. I'm not going to pretend like "tragedy" is a fully objective term even if you do. Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:11, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Life with My Sister Madonna[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Life with My Sister Madonna at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:41, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Hopefully my new hook for this works. Snuggums (talk / edits) 01:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Katy Perry category[edit]

CFD category getting added continuously. —IB [ Poke ] 04:43, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Life with My Sister Madonna[edit]

Updated DYK query.svgOn 16 August 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Life with My Sister Madonna, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the publisher of Life with My Sister Madonna, a tell-all book by the singer's younger brother, sold it to retailers without revealing the title or the subject matter in order to create a media stir? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Life with My Sister Madonna. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Life with My Sister Madonna), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)


False claim? On the Kamikaze artwork that shows the track listing, it says "EXCECUTIVE PRODUCERS: DR. DRE & SLIM SHADY". Aitch & Aitch Aitch (talk) 14:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Hadn't noticed that, but Slim still is a character/alter ego above all else. Snuggums (talk / edits) 21:09, 3 September 2018 (UTC)


Hello SNUGGUMS. Regarding this IP that you recently posted to AIV, where is the warning? All I can see is an edit summary. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 00:53, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

EdJohnston, you can find the warning here, and this was the most recent instance I found of that IP inserting incorrect content. That error has of course been reverted. Something else that could also warrant a block is the IP's hostile responses to messages on their talk page. Snuggums (talk / edits) 02:56, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
I looked at this IP again and issued a block for making unsourced changes. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 15:33, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Not a problem! Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:33, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Katy Perry[edit]

Hi, I believe you're one of the main editors of this article. I'm a little concerned about the amount of citations provided for the sentence about her relationship with Bloom (I haven't checked all of them but opened the first one and it directed me to the site's main page) and the fact that the "cite web" template was not used for any of them. Also, I think it should be moved to the first paragraph of the section as the relationship began in 2016. I've already mentioned all that in the article's talk page but no one's really done anything about it. Best. ArturSik (talk) 17:09, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I definitely have made more edits to that page than anyone else, ArturSik. Quite frankly, I haven't worked on that page these days nearly as much as I did from 2013 to 2015, in part because she hasn't had so much happening in her career throughout 2018 aside from American Idol from March to May and a tour that ended last month. There's also my offline life which needs attention. Anyway, to be honest, I don't exactly see how this relationship is worth including in the first place as it's rather low-profile (compared to other mentioned partners in the article) unless it leads to an engagement and/or pregnancy. On another note, the others were also involved with some part of her professional career unlike him. We could just remove it entirely. Either way, a large amount of citations probably isn't needed, but I don't feel its placement (if anywhere) should be connected to the career-oriented paragraphs. Definitely good to cut out/fix bad URLs regardless. It's hard to really work that into the section's opening without looking awkward when there's no professional overlap. Let me know what you think before we do anything else. Snuggums (talk / edits) 17:44, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
I agree. I’m not too familiar with Katy Perry’s personal life so I’m not sure how serious their relationship is. I didn’t want to remove anything tho and preferred to get in touch with someone who’s more familiar with the topic first because it didn’t look too good in a featured article. ArturSik (talk) 19:45, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Completely understandable. I'll remove that now. Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:48, 8 September 2018 (UTC)


Thanks for the ANI notice, I was actually writing a report there when I was notified. Not sure how or why they went from 0 to 100 like that. Sure, I can be annoying but those remarks were something else... Ss112 19:38, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

My pleasure, Ss112. EditorE was completely out of line and I couldn't let that go unnoticed. Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:39, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

RE: JFK[edit]

Hey Snuggums, I just wanted to acknowledge that I've read your response to my decision regarding your WP:RFPP request here. Looks like the vandalism is based on a new internet meme related to the video game Fortnite. I don't think the severity or frequency of the autoconfirmed vandalism from August warrants indefinite ECP. Protection is not to be applied preemptively in anticipation of possible vandalism. If you feel strongly that the protection here isn't sufficient or I've missed something, I welcome other perspectives on the matter. Best, Airplaneman 16:39, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Airplaneman, you mean this? I thought it was just a joke people made for laughs. It would still help though if an admin like you kept a close watch on the page. Snuggums (talk / edits) 18:02, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Yea, it is just a joke people made for laughs. The page is on my watchlist. Airplaneman 19:47, 16 September 2018 (UTC)