User talk:Sabrebd/Autoarchive 2

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The Signpost: 30 May 2011

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Not an American genre.

I noticed you re-amended my changes to the 'shoegazers' page to take out references to Britpop and to re-Americanise the description. My edit was lighter than it should be because the genre was invented in the early 90s by journalists NOT artists. The artists at the time were trying to remove themselves from this classification. The term 'Alternative Rock' is also an Americanism was was born around the same time and not widely used in the UK. In the country of origin these bands would have been part of a genre known as 'Indie'. A rifle through any of the English music press (NME, Melody Maker, Select magazine and Lime Lizard) at the time (1990-1992) would prove this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

There is not much point expressing these points here where only I can see them. It would be best to make your case on the talkpage of the relevant article. You have to understand that, as well as writing articles, I may revert sometimes 100s of edits that in some way do not fit the policies or guidelines of Wikipedia. I have sent you a welcome template with links just in case you are not familiar with those key points, which I hope will help. Hope you enjoy editing at Wikipedia.--SabreBD (talk) 08:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 June 2011

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Rhythm and blues

What do you think needs to be done to that article? I noticed your comment on the talk page from last year suggesting a clean up - did you get round to doing that? The article at the moment ends in a very messy way - I wonder if the British section should be cut back, and whether there should be clearer links to the later developments (such as a longer See also list), to try and get round the problem of editors adding much later artists as we've just seen. Any thoughts? Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:22, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi. No I didn't get around to a clean-up yet, but I was also thinking its about time. I think the above are all good suggestions. I was wondering if the decades are the best way to organise this, or whether it would be possible to have sub-headings within these (for example - a cut down version of British Rhythm and Blues inside 1960s+), but I would need a bit of time to think about what those sub-headings might be before posting a plan of the talkpage. It does also need a better ending. On reflection our British section does get in the way of that making sense or being seen.--SabreBD (talk) 08:34, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
No problem - I'm certainly not going to rush into anything but will try to come up with some ideas for improving it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:43, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
That would be great. Its useful to have someone to bounce ideas off and just to provide a bit of incentive. Let me know if you have a revelation.--SabreBD (talk) 08:45, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
OK I have started to have a few ideas about the page, at the moment I am thinking of proposing a less chronological structure that will make it easier to read. So far I have this for subject headings:
  1. Etymology
  2. Precursors (1930s)
  3. Origins (1940s)
  4. Commercial peak (early 1950s)
  5. Development of rock and roll (late 1950s)
  6. 1960s and later
  • Development of soul music
  • British rhythm and blues
7. Influence

Perhaps then there could be a "revival of the term" section or something similar at the end. Although we probably don't want anything that invites a long list of ip edits that add Rihanna. On a related note, on British rhythm and blues, your adding of Lonnie D has prompted me to think that we should say a bit more about the relationship of skiffle to R&B, which is a critical bit of the story, so I will probably spend some time today working on that. Any thoughts always welcome.--SabreBD (talk) 11:36, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 June 2011

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I'm not prepared to have an all out edit war.

Is there something wrong with what I added? I thought it was very logical as the British are the only people to use the term. Not even Americans use the term "British Isles" to refer to Ireland and Great Britain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skyifictionable (talkcontribs) 15:42, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

This is not the place to discuss this. If you want to make major changes to an article, particularly a controversial one, you need to get consensus on the talkpage of the article.--SabreBD (talk) 15:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 June 2011

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New Section in the music of the United Kingdom (2000s)

Thanks. Considered putting this in the British Rock article but with all the pop and neo-soul did not not think it was the right fit. Not that a 2011 explosion is a great fit for a 2000s article. On a personal note I am wondering if Anna Calvi will have the late breakthrough that Florence and The Machine and Adele had. Americans have gone for a bombastic rock sound in the big time past and are going for big vocals now Edkollin (talk) 22:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, not sure it would fit the rock article as it is. We could probably borrow some of it for British soul. I wouldn't worry about the dates too much. When we get enough we can start Music of the United Kingdom (2010s).--SabreBD (talk) 22:12, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Non-free files in your user space

Hey there Sabrebd, thank you for your contributions. I am a bot, alerting you that non-free files are not allowed in user or talk space. I removed some files I found on User:Sabrebd/Sandbox2. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

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Romo article


I wrote most (but not all) of the Romo article and would be glad of your assistance with regard to the tone and sources issues - particulary as I query precisely what these issues are. I have replied to your post on the talkpage and look forward in earnest to a response there from yourself. Sorry for adding this extra post, but I notice you say you may be some time in getting back and I would rather not be kept in suspense!

Thank you (talk) 00:03, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I have replied to you on the article page. Is there some reason that you are not using the same IP account as you used to write the article? Getting a named account would solve the problem if you are working form different pcs and make it a lot easier to engage in discussions with other editors.--SabreBD (talk) 09:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Led Zeppelin

No problem, I have replaced the Inuse template. Chaosdruid (talk) 19:22, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that - I will let you know if there is it is a good time for a copyedit when we have had change to review the many recent changes. I would rather wait until the article is almost ready for GA review rather than waste the effort. All the best.--SabreBD (talk) 19:24, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I'm ready to help with anything and everything. Just ask me on my talk page. Regards. Scieberking (talk) 20:37, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 August 2011

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Led Zeppelin

Hi, when are you going to begin working on Led Zeppelin article? (talk) 13:28, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I have to finish some work on another article that has gone up for GA status. Hope to get that done this weekend, so probably the beginning of next week if all goes well.--SabreBD (talk) 13:56, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good. The article needs a complete overhaul. Pester me if you need help. (talk) 18:34, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
Will do. Thanks--SabreBD (talk) 18:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
What books do you have? (talk) 09:07, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Religion in the United Kingdom

Thanks for your message. I was aware you were trying to improve the article but thought is may still be helpful to make the changes as you can always include the ideas if you think them helpful. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 11:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Will do. It may be a while before I am able to post, as it has proved much more complex than I thought and I will be on a wikibreak after tomorrow.--SabreBD (talk) 21:19, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 August 2011

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An article you reviewed has been nominated for Good article review. Please come to the concerned page and voice your opinion. — Legolas (talk2me) 09:43, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Led Zeppelin

Hi, when are you going to start working on Led Zeppelin? TClapton (talk) 06:03, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure. I have been on a wikibreak and have to sort some things out in real life before I take on a lot of work.--SabreBD (talk) 10:08, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 August 2011

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Thanks for finding the reference to show that "technopop" was the more common name for synthpop in the U.S. during the 1980s. A fact previously lost to history, now I know my brain has has not created a false memory as sometime happens. Edkollin (talk) 23:11, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Always pleased to supply evidence of their sanity to a fellow editor. Good move on emphasising it in the article.--SabreBD (talk) 23:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Put a mention in the New Wave article also Edkollin (talk) 23:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Picture Caption Consistency


We try to make every caption as good as possible. It is not necessary to make all captions on an article to be consistent; rather, if we can write a caption that better explains the picture, and if it makes sense (which can be done with complete sentences), this would be preferred.Curb Chain (talk) 20:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Take it to the article talkpage please.--SabreBD (talk) 20:18, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
You checked WP:CAPTION when I thought it hadn't changed.

Thank you for doing so and being patient with my editing. Curb Chain (talk) 21:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

That is the most generous barnstar I have. Thanks again.--SabreBD (talk) 21:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 August 2011

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The Signpost: 05 September 2011

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Led Zeppelin

Hi, now we can start working on Led Zeppelin article. TClapton (talk) 14:27, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I think I have worked out the technical aspects of the footnotes system, so I just need to find a bit of time to get started.--SabreBD (talk) 14:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
Sounds nice. What books do you own? TClapton (talk) 14:42, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I have the three major biographies by Yorke, Wall and Davis. I am going to work on the long promised "style" sections first as a test of the reference system.--SabreBD (talk) 07:42, 8 September 2011 (UTC)


Hi there, I have been working on the Yodeling article. I am no expert and it seems the more I edit the more I learn. At any rate, I'm getting rather sick of talking to myself. Would you be interested in helping me? (I found your name at either the Singing cowboy or the Western music site.) Thanks, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 01:22, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Gandydancer. You certainly have been busy fixing up Yodeling. Well done. I am happy to try and help, but I have to admit, my knowledge of the subject is pretty limited, but I am pretty good at finding resources and dealing with MOS issues, so it depends on what sort of help you want. What did you have in mind?--SabreBD (talk) 07:48, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! Add anything you can find, but mostly it is reading what I have got and making constructive comments if you find any problems or have any ideas. The more I work on it the more I am learning. For instance I didn't know that Bill Haley started out as a yodeler - or Hank Snow, either. Certainly Haley wanted to play that talent down after he made it big in R&R, but I don't think that Snow ever yodeled again either after he made it big in the mid-fifties when yodeling had lost its popularity. I'd like to expand on Slim Whitman's info a little since he really has been a big star for so many years and his style is unique. I'd like to expand the Pigmy singing info too as I have run into more information as I do my searches. As I continue with the article I have realized that there is the early deep south yodel, but then (in the say 40s?) the cowboy yodel begins to form (and it seems related to Western swing?)... I'm not sure that there is enough info or if it even matters that much to get into the difference...? BTW, if you like blues type music, you may like "my" gandy dancer article. What is MOS? Again, thanks. (and then something I hate to even say...those sound clips seem just too good to be says they are legal, do you think they are?) Gandydancer (talk) 14:34, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Yoohoo... Have you had a chance to look at the article? I suggested some improvements on the talk page. Hope to see you there! Gandydancer (talk) 16:26, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Its a busy weekend in real life for me and I have a couple of projects to finish, so it won't be fore before early next week.--SabreBD (talk) 19:44, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Recent British folk revival edit

Hi, you recently reverted an edit I made here with the following edit summary: "Undid revision 449580026 by Thibbs (talk)Unfortunatley not covered by the citation". But wikilinking isn't governed by citations, is it? If the citation doesn't cover this band and the claim is challenged then shouldn't it simply be removed? Deleting the internal wikilink without altering or challenging the original text seems unhelpful to me. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your comment. Could you explain what you meant by that edit? Cheers, -Thibbs (talk) 21:48, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

My apologies, its just an error. I am so used to list creep that adds unsourced acts and then dummy edits a wikilink that I thought I was reverting one of those edits. I have self reverted it.--SabreBD (talk) 22:17, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I understand. No problem. Thanks for clearing it up. -Thibbs (talk) 22:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)


i was only editting that Pulp had aspects of disco and new wave rather than Britpop, due to their high use of synthesisers and a disco sound, i was only changing that, i was not trying to irritate you, i just feel that it is important to include that they had aspects of disco sound rather than the genres i had already seen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TYMCGOUGH (talkcontribs) 19:03, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

I am not irritated, but if you want to make changes to the genre of bands or the bands in genre articles it is best to take your argument and evidence to the talk page of the article and try to get consensus, You may find the following pages useful: WP:consensus and User:Realist2/Genre Warrior. I am also putting some links on your talkpage that you may find helpful.--SabreBD (talk) 19:10, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 September 2011

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American rock

So, from your edit summary explaining your revert one of my changes in the article American rock, you're saying the term "rock music" wasn't used until 1966/1967? If that's the case, I find that pretty amazing. Is that what you're trying to tell me? (talk) 18:27, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

HI. Its best to undertake discussion on articles on the article talkpage so that other editors can see and contribute to them. Thanks.--SabreBD (talk) 23:07, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
OK. (talk) 00:38, 3 October 2011 (UTC)


My entry explains why the Beatles became so popular so fast in the United States, and I believe it should be part of the article. Please reconsider. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cgersten (talkcontribs) 14:21, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Please make points about specific articles on the talk page of those articles, so that everyone can see and contribute.--SabreBD (talk) 14:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 3 October 2011

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Nursery rhymes

Hi, since you seem to have contributed a lot to articles about nursery rhymes, I just thought I'd make sure you know that "rhyme" is not a proper noun. — Smjg (talk) 20:47, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

OK. Knew that and no idea what you are talking about. More detail?--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
A proper noun is one that is the name of something and so begins with a capital letter. Just noticing that a lot of them (I'm not sure how many of them you did yourself) have in the infobox, under the Form label, "Nursery Rhyme". Since it's not a proper noun, it should have a lowercase "r". — Smjg (talk) 23:28, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
You really think I don't know what a proper noun is? If I was going around changing it back then there might be some reason to come here with this, but if you see a problem with some edits I did years ago then just fix them please.--SabreBD (talk) 06:33, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 October 2011

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Led Zep Copyedit


After the last incident, where a request was made for a copyedit, I wondered if I should check with you to see if a copyedit is really required at this time. The last case we decided that there was work going to be done and so the copyedit was cancelled (as well as it having been made without any real issues or a need for one being seen from the regular editors).

If one is required now then drop me a note and I will not take any action and let it go ahead, if you feel there is more work to be done and one is not appropriate at this time I will cancel the request. It was made by an IP and may well be the same person as last time... Chaosdruid (talk) 17:13, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Chaosdruid. Many thanks for making the effort to check this out first, which is also a good move. Yes I think it was the same user that posted the request again. They are not big on talkpage discussion, and were a little ahead of me in the request, but the article should now be pretty stable. The only exception is the "musical style section" which I was thinking of revisiting, but I may get there before a copy edits and if it not to much of a liberty I may get you to revisit that section is it changes significant. Personally I think the article is in pretty good shape, but I am in that state when I have read it so much that I probably cannot see the errors and inconsistencies any more, so an experienced copy edit would be really useful before we go to GA. Many thanks.--SabreBD (talk) 23:37, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
No problem, I will let it go ahead then. If necessary, let me know of any issues and I'll help where needed - Led Zep mean a lot to me, probably more than any other group ... I even got sent home from school for wearing a black armband when John Bonham died! Chaosdruid (talk) 23:14, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
I remember when I heard the news, just after I left school. Bonham's death felt like it ended the 70s as I guess the death of figures like Hendrix ended the 60s. Like you, the music meant a lot to me and I would like to get this article to FA status eventually and give the band the credit they deserve. Thanks for this, I will let you know if there are any issues that come up.--SabreBD (talk) 23:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Younger fans like me are just unfortunate. :-) Scieberking (talk) 19:40, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Honorific nicknames in popular music#Whitney Houston

Hello Sabrebd! I have started a thread to discuss the nicknames of Whitney Houston. Thanks, Novice7 (talk) 04:26, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi there. Thanks for that. I will comment there when I get time.--SabreBD (talk) 06:30, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


A GA review of Synthpop has started, and is now on hold to allow contributors time to address the issues raised so far. Details are on the review page. SilkTork ✔Tea time 01:36, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I have responded on the review page. Unfortunatly this falls on a difficult weekend for me, so it may take some time for me to be able to produce solutions.--SabreBD (talk) 08:33, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

MOS:STABILITY listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect MOS:STABILITY. Since you had some involvement with the MOS:STABILITY redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Fleet Command (talk) 19:40, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 October 2011

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The Beatles/Years Active

There is a discussion occuring here involving debate about whether or not the Beatles were "active" during 1994-1996. Your input would be appreciated. — GabeMc (talk) 00:35, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Your cropped Led Zeppelin image

One problemo... John Paul Jones image is a bit of an eyesore and contrasts sharply with the other three. Any chance of using another Jones image that is clearer visually, and fits in with the other three? Queen Zeppelin Metallica Floyd (talk) 01:45, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Frankly, no, almost no chance. It took me a year to find that one. But if you can come up with a copyright free image, I would be happy to adjust the montage.--SabreBD (talk) 00:50, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

"Free as a Bird" is a song performed by The Beatles.

There is a discussion here which may interest you. Radiopathy •talk• 18:13, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 October 2011

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New Page Patrol survey


New page patrol – Survey Invitation

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A cookie for you!

Choco chip cookie.png Hello Sabrebd! I hope you enjoy this cookie as an amicable greeting from a fellow Wikipedian, SwisterTwister talk 22:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

That is very kind of you. I have just gone and eaten a real cookie in celebration, which should keep me powered up for editing for a little while.--SabreBD (talk) 00:09, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

The List

Hi! I'd like to thank you for your participation in List of psychedelic rock artists, both in talk page and in editing. Page gets a lot of non related edits and it would be really difficult to follow it alone, thanks : ) ~ Elitropia (talk) 15:02, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

No problem. We are lucky to save a handful of editors that keep and eye on this, but mainly thanks to you it is one of the best sourced list of musical artists on Wikipedia.--SabreBD (talk) 15:06, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
So kind! I remember you guided a lot (in talk page of Psychedelic rock article) before I created the list. Have a nice weekend ; ) ~ Elitropia (talk) 15:20, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
You too.--SabreBD (talk) 15:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

"Free as a Bird" proposed lede change

FYI, there is a vote taking place here, and your input would be appreciated. — GabeMc (talk) 03:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

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Symbol support vote.svg This user helped promote the article Synthpop to good article status.

Nice one. SilkTork ✔Tea time 21:09, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. In case you missed the edit on the GA page, I just wanted to say how much I appreciated the review, which really helped improve the article. All the best.--SabreBD (talk) 21:33, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


Please discuss on talk page before adding text saying genres can't be added. Jamcad01 (talk) 06:44, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay then can we at least mention that some songs were Proto Prog Metal and they are highly influential on the genre. Jamcad01 (talk) 06:37, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
"Progressive metal (sometimes known as prog metal) is a subgenre of heavy metal, which blends the powerful, guitar-driven sound of metal with the complex compositional structures, odd time signatures, diverse lyrics and intricate instrumental playing of progressive rock." Copied from the wikipedia page of Progressive Metal. This clearly sounds like what Rush were doing. Honestly does it really matter that it isn't from the same movement? Jamcad01 (talk) 06:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

To Market To Market

Thank you in advance for any errors in Wiki-protocol that I may commit, but it seems there is an error in the introduction to the "To Market, To Market" entry.

The entry states the first recorded version is "to buy a plum bun," and this statement appears to come from the Opie's entry from their Oxford anthology. Further in that same entry, the timeline makes it clear that the first recorded (written) version that appears (following the allusion in the Italian Dictionary)is in the 1805 "Songs for the Nursery" as "to buy a penny bun." There is no documentation of "plum bun" being the actual first version, according to the information in the Opies' book, even though they use the "plum bun" version as the representative version of the rhyme. As is stated in the discussion, this is a discretionary decision (using "plum bun" as the representative version, with no documentation)that has not necessarily been reinforced by acceptance of it as being authoritative. If we only use the Opies' research and documentation of the historical versions, it is clear, from their entry that "to buy a penny bun" was the first RECORDED version. The entry should state this in the introduction, rather than including it at the end of the article, in a way that is accurate but perhaps confusing or misleading.

Thank you.

Mrsbray (talk) 06:50, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for this. This point is probably best put on the article talkpage where other editors can see it and comment, so I have copied it there and will reply when I have had a read through the Opie's entry. All the best.--SabreBD (talk) 08:29, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind navigational assistance for a newcomer.

I have a link to the 1806 edition of "Songs for the Nursery," confirming "to buy a penny bun," but uncertain if it is necessessary to provide here. There is no title on this version, but merely the two iconic lines (second line echoing Florio's entry). If there is documentation of any other version appearing in print between John Florio's allusion and the 1805 Songs for the Nursery, it would be welcome (and definitive), but if this is the only known first version, it should be noted as first "recorded" to-buy version of the rhyme in the introduction (for the purposes of clarity and documentation). Thank you. Mrsbray (talk) 21:16, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Rush (band) edit warring

FYI, User:Jamcad01 - the person you just warned for edit warring the Rush page - was already blocked for doing this. See [2]. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 06:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Ah thanks. I only recently added Rush to my watched pages so I was unaware of any longer history of such edits. If I had known that I would have been less optimistic about an outcome. All the best.--SabreBD (talk) 06:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)