User talk:Sarah777/Archive 28

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Hi Sarah, Hover over the signpost and you may have enough wiki tasks to last 100 years. Regards Chienlit (talk) 18:33, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Wow! This is cool - and so simple I'm wondering why I never thought of it :) Howzit done? Sarah777 (talk) 21:20, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Plentidudinous Polygons Batman! Not so simple; I see where the 100 years comes in. Sarah777 (talk) 21:24, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Sswonk! Can you do that?? Sarah777 (talk) 22:07, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Send me a few at first, with instructions, so we can work out the kinks. Sswonk (talk) 00:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Kinks?!!!! No, I shall just keep my mouth shut before you both charge me with nymphomania.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
(somewhat mock formality intended) Let me rephrase this: Sarah, yes I can provide the application of an image map to photos such as was done in the example. If you have some in mind, you can contact me via my talk page or email me, and link to one or two photos, giving me instructions as to what part of the photo you want to have clickable, and what article each clickable area will link to. Then, you can review whatever I post back and we can revise the results as necessary. That will allow us to have set up a vernacular and simple workflow that can be used in the future, avoiding confusion and glitches. Jeanne, I don't think Wikipedia cares if you have sex on the brain, but you do. Luckily, Sarah and I both have a sense of humor, and at least we know what to expect. Sswonk (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
If I do, blame it on Italian TV.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:27, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Easier just to blame the Italians. I'm reminded of Ilona Staller. Great food though. Sswonk (talk) 19:07, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Italian TV is (in)famous for its programmes with half-naked, dancing girls hosted by the most blandly unattractive men imaginable (in a country famous for its georgeous men!) It is so unbelievably sexist.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:14, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Sounds bad. I just watched a video, search YouTube for "Cicciolina - Political Woman". I don't know if it is ironic, cynical or just silly. She held a seat in Rome, and it looks like at least some women are sympathetic. By the way, I think it would throw off the demographics for the shows you mention to have good looking men. That's me being cynical. I watch a lot of PBS, doesn't RAI have a channel like that? Sswonk (talk) 19:27, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
No. The two main Italian media powerhouses are RAI and Mediaset; the first is state-owned, while the latter is owned by Silvio Berlusconi. The programmes hosted by Maria De Filippi often feature good-looking guys, including this dancer here: Kledi Kadiu. Yum....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:13, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Your photo

That's a good picture of you, Sarah. I always knew you were good-looking. Is your hair light brown? I had imagined you with darker hair.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:28, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

"Mousey" is what I'd call it! And I must point out the pic that Sswonk put up was of a somewhat younger pair of eyes than they are now! Pictures of old photos. But 50 I am not! Drove past a teenage disco called Wesley in Donnybrook tonight and what I saw of the young wans outside on a cold windy night was unimaginable! (Are they MAD??) THAT made feel like I grew up in a different world:) (Which, as a rustic, I guess I did) Sarah777 (talk) 00:10, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Jeanne, great photo. Your right Sarah. You know that your getting older when you see the young lassies half dressed on a cold winters night and think to yourself, go and get yourself wrapped up. Not what I thought when I was a young lad. Jack forbes (talk) 00:16, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Jack - if they were my daughters I be thinking locked up rather than wrapped up! But then us peasant girls had a sheltered upbringing :) Sarah777 (talk) 00:30, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
What picture are yas speaking about? GoodDay (talk) 00:22, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Just look at the one of the good looking lass and you've got it. Jack forbes (talk) 00:24, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Ya mean the blurry pic, with the gal looking over her left shoulder? GoodDay (talk) 00:27, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
G'Day, "blurry pic"?? - I will have you know that is an artistically enhanced self portrait (taken, oxymoronically be a friend) Sarah777 (talk) 00:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I meant blurry as in wondering if that was the photo. My eyes haven't blinked for over 2-minutes. GoodDay (talk) 00:43, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
The ambiguity here over your age is now worthy of something Jimbo himself might have said about policy. And, it's WP:NOTFACEBOOK as we know, so I shouldn't expect you to go beyond implying you're older than a teenager but younger than 50. BTW, I'm not yet a half a century either but the earlier conversation had me thinking it will actually be nice to say that I am at the end of next year. So, I thought the image you posted made you appear to be at most 19, I don't know whether that is a goal. The camera data however say it was taken Halloween this year, so all of this does nothing but stoke curiosity. Certainly the youth and vitality of the people of your beautiful country can be deceptive to more jaded eyes. I too like the photo, although I have a hard time getting it to smile. Detective work is serious business, I suppose. Sswonk (talk) 00:31, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
WOW WEE WOW, that is Sarah777's photo; grrrrrr. GoodDay (talk) 00:37, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Hmmmm. I'm starting to wonder if I have made an error of judgment. G'Day - take some cod liver oil. Sarah777 (talk) 00:45, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Giggle giggle, I'd have to be called the Cod-father. GoodDay (talk) 00:48, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I would delete the photo and this conversation now if I were you. You won't get any peace and quiet from all those young suitors out there in wikiland. Don't forget, many of them haven't even talked to a good looking lassie! I don't mean you, codfather. :) Jack forbes (talk) 00:52, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
No, by all means keep it Sarah, you know how to handle the collateral effects and it is a very fine, honest image and serves an artistic purpose. Strong Keep. Sswonk (talk) 01:08, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Sswonk - just for you - I'll work on this "smiling" thing you Earthlings like. Sarah777 (talk) 01:17, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Little guy eyed by big guy...
many as long as a small car ...
Gone are the days when girls would go to the Afro Spot in their jumpers and jeans, then change into mini skirts in the loo before making their grand entrance onto the dance floor. Do you remember the Afro Spot, Sarah? It was in a basement off Fleet Street.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:51, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
'Fraid not. Maybe I was still down the country! What ERA are we talking about :) Sarah777 (talk) 12:37, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I reckon Jeanne is around my age which makes your comment quite hurtful sob!. I think if you carbon date us you will find we are closer to the Bronze age. Jack forbes (talk) 13:45, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
LOL! I'm talking about the Jurassic era (1981-1982).--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:53, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
OK. I'm definitely pleading "down the country" :) Sarah777 (talk) 21:14, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Two female Wiki editors trying to be taken seriously.....

Another non sequitur

This is something that has been bugging me for ages and no-one has ever been able to answer: why do (or at least did, under the Taliban regime) Afghani woman wear chadris that are bright blue? I can't work out the significance of the colour. Anyone know? Rockpocket 23:28, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know they did. I thought this was UV light reflected off white - as in a disco. (Not that either of us would know what a disco is). Sarah777 (talk) 23:46, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I would post a photo of myself in a disco looking like John Travolta but the hassle from the fallout wouldn't be worth it. Rockpocket, are you sure they all wore blue? I'm sure black was very popular also. Jack forbes (talk) 00:07, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Maybe blue is the new......zzzzzzz :) Sarah777 (talk) 00:15, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Hooray! I've never been zeeed by you, one more thing ticked off in my wish list. :) Jack forbes (talk) 00:19, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Zeded Jack, zeded is what we say over here. Sarah777 (talk) 00:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
And would you look at the time! It's tomorrow already. I have an early rise so I must get a few zeds in soon. Night all. Sarah777 (talk) 00:28, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Girl in neck scarf: "Kiss me, KISS ME!!!!!!" Smack. "I just kissed Al Pacino!!!!!!" Burn, baby, burn, disco inferno... Jack, I would love to see you in a white John Travolta disco suit-flared trousers and all. Post the photo, please.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:07, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
They are blue all right. See also the (distressing) photos at Taliban treatment of women. Blue chadris in all of them. The best I can come up with is that it has symbolic meaning, apparently blue is supposed to have mystical qualities in Islamic culture. Rockpocket 08:54, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Not nice. But you'll understand that even if the eat their children I'd still be opposed to imperialist intervention. And these religious nuts have been given wings by Western policy in the Islamic world (over the past 50 years especially). Sarah777 (talk) 21:47, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah, I have to vehemently disagree with you. As a feminist with a lovely 14 year-old daughter, that deplorable, absolutely barbaric system needs to be overthrown. You cannot blame the west for the Taliban's DIY misinterpretation of Islamic teaching. I have a Moroccan friend, and he thinks that misogynist regime is appalling.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
It was actually a Caliph named Al-Hakim who, in the eleventh century, first ordered women to be veiled in public. He then went on to ban them from leaving the home and instructed cobblers to stop making them shoes. I'm thinking he had a little trouble with trust. Jack forbes (talk) 11:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
You cannot blame the west for the Taliban's DIY misinterpretation of Islamic teaching. Hmmm. Well, not being an Islamic scholar I don't know whether it is a misinterpretation or not - but I certainly can and do blame the West, and specifically the US/Israel for the rise of the extreme Islamists across the globe. Ironically, Afghanistan is one of the places where the connection is clearest and most indisputable - though at the time the target was friends of the Soviets rather than enemies of Israel. I see an analogy with the Irish liberation movements after the Famine; the RC Church became a rallying place for nationalism. That had many downsides as we all know - but it served its purpose. Interestingly Hilaire Belloc forecast just such a turn of events back in 1938 (regarding the reappearance of militant Islam)! Sarah777 (talk) 22:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I am in, are you?

Is it just me or does anyone else think the Wikipedia banner I am in, are you? sounds like something one would hear at an orgy?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:17, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Good Lord Jeanne, I'd have no idea what one might hear at an orgy! Sarah777 (talk) 09:30, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, I've never attended an orgy either, but I kind of thought that might be the sort of thing one would hear; however, on second thought, I suppose there wouldn't be much need for conversation at an orgy, eh?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:50, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
There is a lot of conversation (or instruction, at any rate) at an orgy. Who is to do what with which and to whom doesn't just happen you know; it's a complex bit of choreography. Bielle (talk) 22:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm impressed Bielle. Like Swan Lake without the feathers? Sarah777 (talk) 22:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
No, it sounds more like a cat fight without the flying fur.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:31, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


A group of usurpers has seemingly done what evil admins have long wished, and that is to silence Sarah even at her own talk page. This group of oldsters, led by the notorious 51 year old U.S.-expatriot Jeanne and followed with the near-fifty yank Sswonk and likewise Scot Jack Forbes were recently joined by a Canadian grandmother often known by her nom-de-guerre Bielle. Thus is Sarah left to wonder about their tawdry sexually tinged comments about breasts, beasts and rock bands, banished with her mundane Irish interests to an obscure silence. The world is not a better place for this. Sarah, please make a triumphant return and reclaim what is yours! By the way Jeanne, how could we get this far without discussing Jim Morrison and Ray Manzerek starting the Doors after a chance reunion on Venice Beach? And how can you not have a single mention of Jefferson Airplane among your lists of favorites? Did you know ... that Bielle is allergic to horses? Etc. etc., Sarah please step in and stop the madness. Or maybe it is by your design, in which case I'll shut up. Sswonk (talk) 08:33, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, but I do have a Jim Morrison story for you. Back in 1966, after an entire day spent at Venice Beach, I was standing on Pacific Avenue with my mother and best friend, waiting for the light to change, and guess who should come cycling by us, within touching distance? You guessed it-Jim Morrison, the Lizard King in the flesh. I'll never forget it, and I can still see him crysal-clear in my mind as he looked back then (sans beer-belly).--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Grinning from ear to ear. Coincidentally, I once had a seminar to attend in Mississauga and flew into Pearson Airport from Philly meaning to shave at the hotel, only to be detained for having a two-day beard, a minor pot possession record and nothing but a driver's license to prove who I was (pre 9/11, obviously). The immigration had to lock me in a small room and grill me about my designs on Canada, only to require CA$70 for a "discretionary visa". They put me in a larger area behind glass and who should be shepherded in with some similar issue but Oliver Stone? I recently saw the actual tape of the Doors on Ed Sullivan, Stone completely exaggerated Val Kilmer singing "girl we couldn't get much HIGHer", it wasn't anything like that. Sullivan's people still exploded, something just unfathomable when you listen to the song. Jim was too much, I overplay it but still can't get enough of "Queen of the Highway", and "When the Music's Over"[1] is a masterpiece of 20th century art. Sswonk (talk) 11:04, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
And the perfect driving song LA Woman, not to mention My Eyes Have Seen You and Hyacinth House I see the bathroom is clear, I think that somebody's near, I'm sure that somebody's following me, oh yeah. Yeah. Oliver Stone is probably my favourite director. Platoon is a masterpiece. BTW Sswonk, I had you figured for a woman!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Must not have looked very closely at the gator photo, or were you confused only until you saw that? That is somewhat reassuring, actually, it means I wasn't thought of as a sexist. Sswonk (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey! I'm not silenced! I'm just busy busy busy. Multitasking and reversing into shopping trolleys while fixing my hair etc. You know what we're like :) Sarah777 (talk) 22:14, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet has free access to the sum of all human knowledge.

Jimbo's message to deletionists and other vandals. Sarah777 (talk) 07:27, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I'll drink to that. It's sad when readers come here looking for information on a particular person or subject, and are disappointed to find nought because some editor/editors thought the articles lacked notability. The deletionists will be the downfall of Wikipedia if the policy of AfD is not amended.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

St Grellan's GFC

I'd like to point out that this club was and is always referred to as St Grellan's Gaelic Football Club (GFC) and not St Grellan's Gaelic Athletic Asssociation (GAA).

Please note that some towns have two GAA teams: one a GFC (Gaelic Football Club) and one a HC (Hurling Club). In the Ballinasloe case, until the recent formation of a parent club called Ballinasloe GAA, the Gaelic football club and hurling club had very little to do with each other. Indeed, there was great rivalry between the two over the competition for players. Labelling all clubs as "GAA" is arbitrary and fails to take into account the actual names of many clubs.

I've reverted the St Grellan's change. I see more reverts ahead.--Damac (talk) 22:24, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't rush in with reverts. Standard naming convention for GAA clubs, football, hurling or both is "X GAA". I'd suggest that if there is a Ballinasloe GAA the most appropriate name for the others would be St Grellan's Gaelic Football GAA and St Grellan's Hurling GAA. Though a stricter editor might suggest deletion of both in favour of Ballinasloe GAA with sub-sections. Sarah777 (talk) 22:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Two teams

Regarding this comment.. "Yeh. And ironically Ireland is forced to have two teams though it only wants one." Sarah777... Is this your personal opinion or do you have citations that speak for Ireland also is this statement just your personal belief without any factual evidence? Off2riorob (talk) 21:51, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

This is factual. As it isn't in the article I need no references. No more than I do to state that the sun rises in the east. Maybe you doubt that fact too? Sarah777 (talk) 21:56, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Who's Ireland's 2nd team? GoodDay (talk) 21:59, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Sorry sarah, you speak for people and even countries that disagree with you, and whereever you expound false statements as if fact it is false propaganda and the stuff of playgrounds and even worse the rejection of thousands perhaps millions of people that would totally disagree with you. Off2riorob (talk) 22:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I getcha now, you meant the island of Ireland. When somebody says Ireland to me, I think the country. GoodDay (talk) 22:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

@G'Day; the second team is "Northern Ireland" and represents 6 counties in NE Ireland which are politically part of the UK. I'm surprised you don't know that!
@Off2; I speak for the majority of Irish people - not sure what "millions" you refer to. Where are they? Have you got problems with the GFA too?? Sarah777 (talk) 22:08, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Ya have to clarify these things (with me) first, ya know. GoodDay (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I agree that it is outrageous that one country, the UK, can field 4 teams. Until the "constituent countries" develop the spine to break free they should play as part of a UK team; like all other subject nations have to do. Sarah777 (talk) 22:15, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. GoodDay (talk) 22:22, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
ec, what is GFA? I am glad we are talking about the same thing...phew...well when I found your comment I looked for citations to support it and couldn't find any, on what sources are you claiming this to be true, or is it just something you know to be true? The way the comment was phrased makes it so totally false...You speak for a whole country as if you have authority to speak for all the people there in northern Ireland too, this is a step to far. 22:14, 18 December 2009 (UTC)Off2riorob (talk)
This Good Friday Agreement ? Off2riorob (talk) 22:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

My views represent the majority of people in Ireland including nearly half the population of the six counties in the north east where some folk regard themselves as British. If you don't know what the GFA is I suggest you look it up. Sarah777 (talk) 22:21, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
See your doing it again, speaking as if you have the authority to do so, I speak for the majority, what rubbish...first it was Ireland only wants one and now it is the majority... as regards the football team and your position is there a supporting link? You should realize that there are plenty of people that don't want you talking as if for them. Also as regards the GFA there was a lot of opposition to that agreement including a large political party, so please don't assume to speak for those people who I am sure hold a totally opposing position to the one you assert for them. Off2riorob (talk) 22:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I think you'll find that 97% of the population of the South and 70% of the much smaller population of the North voted for the GFA. A tiny minority (less than half the NI British Unionist population) voted against. The "no" votes represented less than 500,000 people out of a population of 6 million on the island. A rather smaller % than, for example, Sinn Fein gets in the RoI. So I'll happily speak for the vast majority of Irish people in relation to the GFA. Sarah777 (talk) 23:43, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I really dislike this sort of mentality, only 56 percent of people in the republic even bothered to vote, the agreement does not speak for them in fact the people that did not care enough to even bother to vote are the strongest group, also the agreement has nothing to do with football, you should learn to simply speak for yourself, take a look over your shoulder there is no one there, just you and you could do with learning to add to your comments (IMO) in my opinion. Dream on. Off2riorob (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
people that did not care enough to even bother to vote are the strongest group! I guess in your mental universe 44% is greater than 56% and 20% is bigger than 80%! Why am I not surprised? I can appreciate you dislike democracy that can't be gerrymandered; it is the trademark of the British Unionist! Sarah777 (talk) 00:16, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

What are we trying to say that the Good Friday Agreement says? ~ R.T.G 00:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Sarah used it to support this comment... "Yeh. And ironically Ireland is forced to have two teams though it only wants one." Sarah777. .. Off2riorob (talk) 00:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Ireland is an inanimate object. As far as we know she doesn't tell us what she wants. ~ R.T.G 00:31, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah speaks for Ireland and that is a fact. Off2riorob (talk) 00:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
I made no such claim but I'll not dispute it! Sarah777 (talk) 00:40, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah777 makes very valid points but I would not bother starting to argue with user off2riorob. After he destroyed an article I was maintaining recently because it bothered a page he constanly edits I have been investigating his interventions across the board. A pattern is emerging - as clearly displayed here = of an editor with a bullying and arrogant attitude. To quote his own words he should "take a look over your shoulder there is no one there". Well now there is. Mr1001 (talk) 00:43, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Seasonal signage....
These four locations.......

Waiting for Bielle.....

Looks like a fairly typical scene of priests and nuns in a prelude to Swan Lake. (Waiting for Bielle??) Mind you, they have the kids hidden away somewhere :) Sarah777 (talk) 10:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
But I was actually thinking of something more mainstream, cliched and traditional. Like a Dickensian country scene or robins on holly. Sarah777 (talk) 10:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Now this is better altogether.....
We should all give thanks to for a wit that has survived since 21 June 2006. To wit, The Caganer, by creating feces, is fertilizing the Earth. However, this is probably an a posteriori explanation,... Subtle and scatological, or is just me? Chienlit (talk) 13:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC) Half wit.


Manorhamilton Drumkeeran Sligo Dromahair
This is an imagemap, click the name of a location on the sign to view its article

This picture; Manorhamilton, Sligo, Drumkeeran, Dromahair...excuse the buzzing here.....midge repellent isn't working! Sarah777 (talk) 00:34, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I had been wondering how/if/when the vernacular and simple workflow that can be used in the future, avoiding confusion and glitches would start. It's almost as exciting as xmas eve. :) Chienlit (talk) 07:20, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Only if you believe in Santa! Otherwise this is waaaay more exciting to us Wiki-nerds/junkies/anoraks/trainspotters/time wasters. It would be like snowfall on Christmas Eve! Sarah777 (talk) 09:43, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Ha ha. The Sharpest Lady On Wiki. I doubt if SSw has ever been so flattered, more exciting than santa... Chienlit (talk) 09:48, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
ps Why do Irish road signs use ( )s? It seems logical but looks strange to my English eyes. I'm guessing that the English logic just says 'all info is equally relevant to the driver at the moment of reading the sign', whereas the ( )s are conveying extra info to the navigator. Chienlit (talk) 09:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, you got me thinking seasonally - maybe Sswonk could try this one instead? (Roundwood, Glencree, Dublin and Blessington). Anyone got some (tasteful, Jeanne, tasteful) smilies or icons we could use around here? This place needs some festivitising, as some American has no doubt said :) Sarah777 (talk) 10:01, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

( )??? The reason we use ( ) is in order to ( ) the driver when he or she is ( ) and thus it improves the ( ). This way you can get ( ) more effectively. Sarah777 (talk) 10:06, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Is my crib tavern tasteful enough? Althoughs the drunks and serving wenches are in full view, Bethlehem's village bicycle is hidden. (Thankfully J does not live in Catalonia :) )
Point #1: How can you possibly drive in such a way, with a dashed yellow line on the side of the road? Aren't there any number of mangled rental cars with injured Americans in them dotting the countryside, where the drivers took off into the woods thinking that was the passing lane? Point #2: Above, I agreed to help you make image maps above, but asked you contact me via my talk or email. Suppose I got lost watching your page and missed this particular section, which I almost did? Are you the line painter in Ireland, who also gets requests from your would-be helper backwards or are you just trying to befuddle yanks? I will get back to you on this, posting here is fine but if in the future I don't respond for a day or two, please drop me a note otherwise I may miss a request. Backing into shopping carriages while fixing your hair maybe? (Dislike using emoticons. Smiling.) Sswonk (talk) 15:52, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Sarah, the image is now at the top of this section. No amount of work done for beguiling Irish women with sharp tongues and sharper wits is enough. What a workflow, whew, I may go back for seconds. Now, here is a good place for you to comment and let me know if this is exactly how you want the linking to be done or if the little hand cursor should receive broader coverage, etc. Hope you like it. Sswonk (talk) 17:29, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Tis the season

Roundwood Blessington Glencree Dublin
Military Road joins the R759 at Sally Gap
Mano cursor.svg Clickable image: click a sign to go to its destination article

Here is the second image, and I don't know how midges survive such weather. We are about to experience our first blizzard of the season tonight here in coastal eastern Mass; earlier today I had to chase down a woman in the parking lot packing her car with supplies to ask for her carriage, there were so many people stocking up that the "trollies" were all taken. Waiting for your comments on the signs, mmmhmm. Sswonk (talk) 18:06, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Sswonk II

Ooops! Apologies Sswonk - I should have taken this to your page. Great work - but I must ask - how long does it take per picture? Looking at the code it seems a tedious process even if you know what you are doing. Anyway, many thanks and I'll bring the next photo to your page 'cos we need to create some conventions here. If clickable names become common on Wiki we probably need some symbolic way of indicating that rather than a statement in the caption. Again..thank you. Sarah777 (talk) 21:01, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

You are very welcome. Let's say it took ten minutes for each. The software I am using is a bit raw and touchy, it sometimes blanks the work area and starts over without so much as a warning or reason given. These we have done so far are the simplest possible, because the areas which are clickable are very simple polygons. Images like the Ireland counties, with much more complicated drawing involved, will take a requisite greater amount of time.
For the future, I made a sandbox talk page just for you to leave images and instructions, that will also help organize things and keep comments on other matters from cluttering the space. The page is: User talk:Sswonk/Sarah images. Then when I have finished one I can place it there, while leaving questions and comments about the images as well. It still has not started snowing here in Quincy, but is very dark and cold. Winter's here. Sswonk (talk) 23:07, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Well here in Sandyford in the foothills of the Dublin Mountains we've had flurries the past two days and it's sub zero (that's Celsius :) - maybe we'll get that Christmas Eve snow! Sarah777 (talk) 23:15, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
About a visual clue, see this page [2]. The little blue "i" icon, which I left out but can be added to any imagemap, links to the actual image description page, and may serve as a visual clue eventually. I agree it is rather inelegant to have to explain things in the caption. We'll have to figure something out. Sswonk (talk) 23:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
OK, the blue "i" icon doesn't work with "thumb" images. I tried a different approach with the image above, using the original caption with a smaller note flush right on the bottom line. Still thinking about other ways, try this one. Sswonk (talk) 01:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The 'Anti-Slavery Society Convention 1840' image appears to fill the whole frame with a huge extra polygon (or 2) that says Use your cursor to explore the image...etc. It works well. Chienlit (talk) 08:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Image Maps take off at last!

Pleased to see the idea is finally taking a grip. There is another at Image Map and I particularly proud of the one in Louis Celeste Lecesne. I did the first at Lullington (after seeing one at The eye) if I remember and then realised that if I chose a good subject then It could be used in lots. There is a category for image maps so maybe we can add yours. 2 or 3 more editors interested and we can start a wikiproject! Victuallers (talk) 22:04, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Click on the Guinness add...???!
Well, there is Sswonk - the guy who actually creates "mine" :) Sarah777 (talk) 22:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Wow! This is seriously cool.
Isaac Crewdson (Beaconite) writer Samuel Jackman Prescod - Barbadian Journalist William Morgan from Birmingham William Forster - Quaker leader George Stacey - Quaker leader William Forster - Anti-Slavery ambassador John Burnet -Abolitionist Speaker William Knibb -Missionary to Jamaica Joseph Ketley from Guyana George Thompson - UK & US abolitionist J. Harfield Tredgold - British South African (secretary) Josiah Forster - Quaker leader Samuel Gurney - the Banker's Banker Sir John Eardley-Wilmot Dr Stephen Lushington - MP and Judge Sir Thomas Fowell Buxton James Gillespie Birney - American John Beaumont George Bradburn - Massachusetts politician George William Alexander - Banker and Treasurer Benjamin Godwin - Baptist activist Vice Admiral Moorson William Taylor William Taylor John Morrison GK Prince Josiah Conder Joseph Soul James Dean (abolitionist) John Keep - Ohio fund raiser Joseph Eaton Joseph Sturge - Organiser from Birmingham James Whitehorne Joseph Marriage George Bennett Richard Allen Stafford Allen William Leatham, banker William Beaumont Sir Edward Baines - Journalist Samuel Lucas Francis August Cox Abraham Beaumont Samuel Fox, Nottingham grocer Louis Celeste Lecesne Jonathan Backhouse Samuel Bowly William Dawes - Ohio fund raiser Robert Kaye Greville - Botanist Joseph Pease, railway pioneer W.T.Blair M.M. Isambert (sic) Mary Clarkson -Thomas Clarkson's daughter in law William Tatum Saxe Bannister - Pamphleteer Richard Davis Webb - Irish Nathaniel Colver - American not known John Cropper - Most generous Liverpudlian Thomas Scales William James William Wilson Thomas Swan Edward Steane from Camberwell William Brock Edward Baldwin Jonathon Miller Capt. Charles Stuart from Jamaica Sir John Jeremie - Judge Charles Stovel - Baptist Richard Peek, ex-Sheriff of London John Sturge Elon Galusha Cyrus Pitt Grosvenor Rev. Isaac Bass Henry Sterry Peter Clare -; sec. of Literary & Phil. Soc. Manchester J.H. Johnson Thomas Price Joseph Reynolds Samuel Wheeler William Boultbee Daniel O'Connell - "The Liberator" William Fairbank John Woodmark William Smeal from Glasgow James Carlile - Irish Minister and educationalist Rev. Dr. Thomas Binney Edward Barrett - Freed slave John Howard Hinton - Baptist minister John Angell James - clergyman Joseph Cooper Dr. Richard Robert Madden - Irish Thomas Bulley Isaac Hodgson Edward Smith Sir John Bowring - diplomat and linguist John Ellis C. Edwards Lester - American writer Tapper Cadbury - Businessman not known Thomas Pinches David Turnbull - Cuban link Edward Adey Richard Barrett John Steer Henry Tuckett James Mott - American on honeymoon Robert Forster (brother of William and Josiah) Richard Rathbone John Birt Wendell Phillips - American M. L'Instant from Haiti Henry Stanton - American Prof William Adam Mrs Elizabeth Tredgold - British South African T.M. McDonnell Mrs John Beaumont Anne Knight - Feminist Elizabeth Pease - Suffragist Jacob Post - Religious writer Anne Isabella, Lady Byron - mathematician and estranged wife Amelia Opie - Novelist and poet Mrs Rawson - Sheffield campaigner Thomas Clarkson's grandson Thomas Clarkson Thomas Morgan Thomas Clarkson - main speaker George Head Head - Banker from Carlisle William Allen John Scoble Henry Beckford - emancipated slave and abolitionist Use your cursor to explore (or Click "i" to enlarge)
Lecesne is to the left in this painting, (above the lady in bonnet), which is of the 1840 Anti-Slavery Convention.[1] Move your cursor to identify him or click icon to enlarge
(The picture on the right of the 1840 Anti-Slavery Convention). Sarah777 (talk) 22:31, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

BTW - a Wiki-project might be a good idea. The potential here is awesome. Sarah777 (talk) 22:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I can already see some of the issues...if this Roundwood pub was clickable. Sarah777 (talk) 09:37, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Great photo, Sarah. Has a nice, cosy Christmasy atmosphere. It makes me want to hop on the next Alitalia flight to Dublin-snow and all! Nice work.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:47, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Yep, I think the imagemap method should only be used in lieu of a list of items within an image, i.e. destinations, individuals, separated buildings each w/articles, etc. rather than to highlight some feature within a photo that could easily be linked in the caption. Subtlety and discretion are important in the visual display of information and enhance the overall user experience. Sswonk (talk) 14:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

An early gift for you

Ha ha ha hee hee hee, I'm the laughing troll and you can't catch me! Merry Christmas, Sarah from your favourite wee troll

Hmmm. Looks like another trainee sysop. Sarah777 (talk) 19:34, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Órla Fallon – Isle of Innisfree Pretenders – 2000 Miles
Sending you sunny warm greetings—Merry Christmas, Sarah. Sswonk (talk)
Mano cursor.svg Clickable image

I keep clicking on the "House of Ireland sign" - but nothing happens! I thought maybe you had a prezzie hidden there :) Sarah777 (talk) 12:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

A nice blouse perhaps? Of course it's difficult to guess your size from the slightly psychedelic Halloween head shot above! You know I can't deny you, though, so there's a click there now (another tiny hidden prize in the mix as well). Melancholy, yes, but hence the image which helps sunny things up ... Sswonk (talk) 15:24, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Nice Sswonk. You know I don't have a note in me. If I could remake myself all over again I'd be able to sing and play an instrument. But I'm a member of the crow family despite a love of music. In school the teacher used to ask me to mouth the words but remain silent in the chorus :) Sarah777 (talk) 22:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Wow, what a brave teacher :) Chienlit (talk) 16:12, 24 December 2009 (UTC) Happy Christmas

Happy holidays from my alter egos. GoodDay (talk) 17:14, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


Merry Christmas!

I'll be away from the laptop for a day or two! Best to all. Sarah777 (talk) 21:46, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Notification: Proposed 'Motion to Close' at Wikipedia:Community de-adminship/Draft RfC

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Community de-adminship/Draft RfC re: a 'Motion to close', which would dissolve Cda as a proposal. The motion includes an !vote. You have previously commented at Wikipedia:WikiProject Administrator/Admin Recall. Best Wishes for the Holidays, Jusdafax 06:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I would be great if you could vote on this motion - people are tolling it up, or were when it was 50/50 anyway. Also, I made some user boxes, linked from the draft page, not sure they are that visible. They are really just to promote/show disapproval of/doubts about the idea of CDA more than for any one aspect it could take. The key to progress is getting attention I think - the 'community' needs to know about these things, and userboxes are a good way of showing interest while spreading the word in a way that doesn't contravene canvasing rules. Nobody has complained yet, anyway. Matt Lewis (talk) 21:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I though I did vote! Have I Snafued again? Sarah777 (talk) 21:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, you did forget to put a 't'. OK, I'll stop now. GoodDay (talk) 21:28, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
G'Day - I'm surprised your wife hasn't strangled you...yet :) Sarah777 (talk) 21:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Heheheheh. GoodDay (talk) 22:02, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I didn't know you were married GoodDay! How about you regarding the motion to close? I noticed you have commented on the draft page. Do you think they should (essentially) close the CDA proposals early? If not, an oppose vote is worth making. Matt Lewis (talk) 22:18, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm not married (thus my giggles). Honestly, what woman would marry me? As for the CDA proposals, I'm not sure what they're. But, I'll oppose closure anyway (as it can't hurt to continue discussions). GoodDay (talk) 22:22, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I thought maybe a corpse bride. You are on here rather a lot! I'm still trawling through the CDA/RFC stuff myself. I'll try and help clear it up if I can see a positive way to do it. It looks like some archiving is in order, and some more refined polling around the idea of consensus. If people are split on that it could stall alas. The page has got too long to follow now though, that is for sure. Matt Lewis (talk) 22:43, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Could we move some of this discussion to my talkpage? We've sorta taken over Sarah's property. GoodDay (talk) 22:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Judging by some of the pictures I've seen in here, I would have thought it was her subject! You are more than welcome to discuss CDA at mine if you like. I'm trying to absorb all the details at the moment. Unfortunately I can't quite concentrate on WP the way I once could. Matt Lewis (talk) 22:59, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
OK, will do. GoodDay (talk) 23:13, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
The notification (believe it or not) is about a proposal put forward to terminate the proposal of a CDA early (ie before Jan 4th). Matt Lewis (talk) 21:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
OK Matt - got it. Thanks for the heads up. Sarah777 (talk) 22:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

British Isles

Sarah, this[3] wasn't civil or helpful. I made a valid point in good faith, citing sources. If you disagree with me fine, but ad hominem attacks aren't justified, especially not from a well-established editor.--Pondle (talk) 16:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I don;t think it was aimed at you Pondle, more at Flash --Snowded TALK 16:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I noticed ya missed a word, in that post. GoodDay (talk) 18:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Correct - it was not aimed at Pondle, apologies for not making that clear now that I look at the sequencing. Sarah777 (talk) 19:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Ya still missed a word, though. GoodDay (talk) 19:33, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
To be or not to that the question? :) Sarah777 (talk) 19:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Yep, it's the case of the missing 'be'. GoodDay (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
What would we do without you around to keep us all on track G'Day? Sarah777 (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't know. GoodDay (talk) 21:13, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Measures to deal effectively with abusive Admins

In view of the defeat of this rather worrying proposal I feel we need to get a grip on where the process is going. To this end I have made a proposal to improve the quality of sysopping on en:Wiki. Sarah777 (talk) 15:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I think you need to tighten up the question you are seeking votes on at WT:Community de-adminship/Draft RfC#Motion to extend the closure deadline to 15th January. I can't really tell what the header date "15th January" means in terms of the three numbered steps you give at the end. There in step 2 you mention the date 10 January, and later in the next step ask for another deadline of 31 January. So there are three dates. I don't want to comment over there as you may be able to solve the confusion I am experiencing with a comment here or a fix of a typo there if that is what I am seeing. Sswonk (talk) 20:10, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Typo. Sarah777 (talk) 20:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
When's the current deadline for the 'Recall of Administratrators' discussion? GoodDay (talk) 20:10, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
It is rumoured to be 4 January. But you need eyes in the back of your head to watch those fellows. Sarah777 (talk) 20:13, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, and a Happy New Year as well – Sswonk (talk) 22:02, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Ath-bhliain foai mhaise dhaoibh a chara.

Have a good new year. BigDunc 18:45, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, happy new year.--John (talk) 02:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Happy New Year, Sarah.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
And a Happy New Year from me. Jack forbes (talk) 12:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
And a Happy New Year to you all! Sarah777 (talk) 20:01, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Reforming GoodDay

Apparently, I've been more of a spurr in the saddle. GoodDay (talk) 23:19, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Only to over sensitive types! Though a spur in the saddle would be altogether more painful than a burr ! Sarah777 (talk) 23:23, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I'll have to reform my talkpage habits. After 4+ yrs, it's probably time. GoodDay (talk) 23:30, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Up to you. Reform can be good or bad :) Sarah777 (talk) 23:35, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
My own talkpage will continue as always, though. Recently, 2 editors removed me from their watchlists. I never knew I was on them, until being informed I no longer was. GoodDay (talk) 23:39, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
You're on my list......Sarah777 (talk) 23:42, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Hehehe, I'm honoured. GoodDay (talk) 23:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Talking of Watchlists, I've posted a message to you GD, on my own talk. How you can follow conversations when you don't watchlist is beyond me! (this is not the ideal page to inform you perhaps - I expect its as popular as yours). Matt Lewis (talk) 23:51, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I follow an editor's contributions, to know if they've responded there or not. I don't always remember to do this though. GoodDay (talk) 23:55, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Best of luck with the Wikibotomy GD. If I can help in any way just ask. RashersDogRusty (talk) 23:59, 7 January 2010 (UTC) (more generally known as User RashersTierney)
I just need looking out for, when I venture into dangerious territories. GoodDay (talk) 00:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
GoodDay, I'm pleased you have decide to reform, but let's hope your reforming zeal doesn't turn you into a 21st century John Knox!!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:50, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Testing beta

Yep. I am. Sarah777 (talk) 18:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. Can't see any difference....Sarah777 (talk) 18:08, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
OK - I'm now testing Beta - it looks a bit like the un-logged-in version of Wiki. Splendifferous. Sarah777 (talk) 18:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the best thing is the little "tools" menu (down arrow beside the "Watchlist" star - which is cool in itself because it spins when you Watch something). If you have use additional "gadgets" for editing they will probably appear in than menu. Wasn't a fan initially of how there's no seperation between the user name, my talk, my preferences, etc. menu on top ... but got used to it. The toolbar when you edit has some spiffy menus, but I can't get rid of the feeling that it's missing a few things. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 18:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

WP:CDA - refining stage

For good or bad, admin are never going to vote for something that excludes their own votes.

I know the 'consensus only' position (no percentages given at all) is in a way oposite to how you feel about Bureaucrats having too much power, but it does make sense when you really think about it. They would be forced into making fair decisions, as the new injection of accountability will reach them too. Desptite how Tryptofish feels (consensus/70%-80%/B.discretion) being the margin that could win it), my worry is that disagreement over the percentages cold scupper the whole thing. Would you support another refining stage of polling, if needed? My idea was that we could poll consensus/60-80/B.discretion (as so many in the 'winning' 5.4 poll suggested it), and poll 'consensus only' at the same time (as that was suggested in 5.4 too). 'Consensus only' is far more honest about the actual consensus element - with 70/80 bueaucrats could effectively ignore a clearly spottable consensus if enough of them wanted to (and they could with 60/80 too).

One plus 70/80 has, I suppose, is that it is an exact mirror on the RfA, though that shouldn't really mean so much, as by nature RFA is optimistic and CDA is damning. Also like Tryptofish says, it can be adapted to 60/80 later - but only the CDA actually passes, and then if people will accept further change. My worry is that a lot of people haven't voted yet, and 70/80 could fail it. Matt Lewis (talk) 00:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a bit conflicted here Matt. I'm trying to decide between nothing and change that isn't worth the candle - my inclination is to reject anything I think won't make any difference. I think the principle of Admin vested interest is real and worth pointing out. I pay little heed to their "rationalisations" in relation to such a manifest inbuilt support for the status quo. We need to make them accountable to the productive editors. If folk have a difficulty with edit count then let's introduce a count plus "3 year" rule for voting. Any Admin who fails doesn't get a vote - that will stop the numerous Admins who go straight from nowhere to wearing the uniform - as was obviously their intention from Day One. It is frightening the number of Admins who clearly joined because they wanted sysop power. Have they been "groomed" by the Cabal? Sarah777 (talk) 21:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm beginning to think a 70% baseline is a waste of time too. I think the whole 'morrored RFA' thing is a big con too - CDA is hardly a re/de-election, and 70% is a totally different ball game in a CDA. I might not actually vote if we end up running with 70% (where we are currently heading). A percentage that high, just to meet acceptance, is simply too easy to game, and will it give a false sense of 'fairness' that won't exist. In reality, relatively few admin would fear a CDA at 70% I think. If they had really were afraid of something - they would probably be ousted via arbcom anyway. CDA has to be realistic to work as a deterrant - otherwise having it won't be good for the community at all. I'm going for a poll on 60%, 70% (and if I can) no baseline needed. I do feel a bit cheated with the way this has gone, given that we had consensus for an extension of the proposal choosing phase. I feel this has been a big ill-conceived rush to get polling on a 70% 'mirror process' (without considering the Crat-found consensus side 5.4 people voted for), and finally ending the 'damned thing'. Matt Lewis (talk) 22:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
RFA does need improving, but its a different thing to CDA to me. CDA is a good thing in itself. Anyway - looks like I've got the go ahead for another poll, so expect a new talk page notice sometime soon. I think a 60% baseline (the likely winner I expect) will be worth voting for at the final RFC, whatever you feel RFA needing changes. Try and see CDA as something different Matt Lewis (talk) 23:15, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Well done Matt. "Patience is a virtue, have if you can; seldom in a woman, never in a man". Sarah777 (talk) 23:03, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Community de-Adminship - finalization poll for the CDA proposal

After tolling up the votes in the revision proposals, it emerged that 5.4 had the most support, but elements of that support remained unclear, and various comments throughout the polls needed consideration.

A finalisation poll (intended, if possible, to be one last poll before finalising the CDA proposal) has been run to;

  • gather opinion on the 'consensus margin' (what percentages, if any, have the most support) and
  • ascertain whether there is support for a 'two-phase' poll at the eventual RfC (not far off now), where CDA will finally be put to the community. Matt Lewis (talk) 01:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Request For Input

Sarah, not sure if this is for you but....there is a discussion currently happening at the wiki "Irish American" article around Scots Irish content; the discussion needs more participation and editorial perspective--REGARDLESS OF OPINION!. Please if you are interested/have any thoughts have a look there and share your thoughts as it potentially affects other articles and really needs much more input than what is being offered by too few contributors. Thank you link Irish American discussion is the latest, at the bottom of the discussion page67.83.75.57 (talk) 23:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Your VOTE 2 vote at CDA

Hi Sarah,

Firstly, apologies for this long message! I may need a response from you directly underneath it, per (3) below.

You are receiving this message as you voted in VOTE 2 at the recent Community de-Adminship 'Proposal Finalization' Poll. Unfortunately, there is a hitch regarding the "none" vote that can theoretically affect all votes.

1) Background of VOTE 2:

In a working example of CDA; ater the 'discussion and polling phase' is over, if the "rule of thumb" baseline percentage for Support votes has been reached, the bureaucrats can start to decide whether to desysop an admin, based in part on the evidence of the prior debate. This 'baseline' has now been slightly-adjusted to 65% (from 70%) per VOTE 1. VOTE 2 was asking if there is a ballpark area where the community consensus is so strong, that the bureaucrats should consider desysopping 'automatically'. This 'threshold' was set at 80%, and could change pending agreement on the VOTE 2 results.

This was VOTE 2;

Do you prefer a 'desysop threshold' of 80% or 90%, or having none at all?
As a "rule of thumb", the Bureaucrats will automatically de-sysop the Administrator standing under CDA if the percentage reaches this 'threshold'. Currently it is 80% (per proposal 5.4).
Please vote "80" or "90", or "None", giving a second preference if you have one.

This is the VOTE 2 question without any ambiguity;

Do you prefer a "rule of thumb" 'auto-desysop' percentage of 80%, 90%, or "none"?
Where "none" means that there is no need for a point where the bureaucrats can automatically desysop.
Please vote "80" or "90", or "None", giving a second preference if you have one.

2) What was wrong with VOTE 2?

Since the poll, it has been suggested that ambiguity in the term "none at all" could have affected some of the votes. Consequently there has been no consensus over what percentage to settle on, or how to create a new compromise percentage. The poll results are summarised here.


Directly below this querying message, please can you;

  • Clarify what you meant if you voted "none".
  • In cases where the question was genuinely misunderstood, change your initial vote if you wish to (please explain the ambiguity, and don't forget to leave a second choice if you have one).
  • Please do nothing if you interpreted the question correctly (or just confirm this if you wish), as this query cannot be a new vote.

I realise that many of you clarified your meaning after your initial vote, but the only realistic way to move forward is to be as inclusive as possible in this vote query. I will copy any responses from this talk page and place them at CDA Summaries for analysis. Sorry for the inconvenience,

Matt Lewis (talk) 00:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll go for 80% as it is the only option available. I'd prefer 51% so that is why I voted "none". I think 80% is so high as to be virtually useless. Sarah777 (talk) 21:53, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Gerry Mander

I wonder if there exists in Northern Ireland anybody by the name of Gerry Mander?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Google it? :) Sarah777 (talk) 11:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Hee hee hee, I found this: Jerry Mander.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:39, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
This may be what you were looking for, Jeanne. --John (talk) 10:30, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Somehow I feel Jer-ry Maaaanderrrr doesn't have quite the same effect as Jarreh Mahnderr. What do you say, Sarah?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:13, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm staying schtum :) Sarah777 (talk) 12:35, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Can you look at CDA

If you're online, can you look at the new Canvassing section I've proposed at Wikipedia:Guide_to_Community_de-adminship. Does it make sense to you? Someone is planning to push an early-version CDA (a 'reverse rfa' at 70-80% admin discretion) sometime today, so I'm scambling the worked-on version into shape. Canvassing is where it could be ripped apart at the RfC if it's not strong enough. I'm not sure I'd personally go gor 'CDA' as an idea if this side of things wasnt right. cheers, Matt Lewis (talk) 11:59, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Matt, I've been out of touch and there is a lot of stuff on that page! Can you guide me to the specific area you want me to read? The CDA policy as it stands is less than useless and I don't think there is any serious intention in the Admin "community" to do other than close ranks - as is always the case when the police are policing themselves. I noted this gem on the policy page: "The bright light you are about to shine on a particular administrator will reflect on you as well." Now if that isn't a threat I ain't never seen one! As we know the MO of the establishment here is to drag up ancient rows and throw in the kitchen sink, complete with diffs, when a member is attacked. I'm thinking along the lines of a special cadre of Admins whose only function is to police other Admins and who will be prohibited from dealing directly or sanctioning non-Admins. This is best-practice in the most advanced countries when it comes to controlling the mainstream police. I'm working on a proposal. But I'm holding till this current process/farce winds it's way to the inevitable conclusion. Sarah777 (talk) 15:32, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
My Canvassing section was indeed reverted back to something useless, so I don't expect you saw my change (I should have given you a diff really). In fact a number of my changes good for the past couple of weeks have gone, including a change to that ridiculous "bright light" line. I've backed out of CDA per an AN/I on me anyway. It's quite a 'night of the long knives'. It took a while for the penny to drop, but I've realised that it is actually admin that will make CDA a nightmare in practice, whatever the canvassing rules (and canvassing doesn't work on admin - they are always in touch). No Crat will want to be near such a public display of dumbo admin behaving badly. How could they judge it? The stink before and after would be too high. So there just isn't enough quality admin to make CDA work (the irony is quite painful), so I've withdrawn my support.
There be 'dactyls here
I'll be back on BI after a short break. There are always other versions of Admin Recall of course, and it would be interesting to see what you are working on. (though you should be warned that a number of people working these matters are difficult to work with to say the least). Matt Lewis (talk)
Thats an interesting idea, Sarah: a wiki-Internal Affairs. Imagine how popular those folks would be. (Incidentally, where have you been hiding? Its been ages since a drama involving you has appeared on my watchlist. Those were the days ;) Rockpocket 23:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
They would be extremely popular - outside the Cabal. Sarah777 (talk) 01:05, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Rock, I don't invite Drama but Drama stalks me constantly it seems. Just back from seeing Avatar (3D) for the second time and for some reason the name of the giant orange pterodactyl thingy - "Last Shadow" - springs to mind. What a brilliant name! Sarah777 (talk) 01:00, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, the Last Shadow you would ever see, should it happen upon you when pissed off (like some admins around here). I'm glad you are still around, anyway. Rockpocket 18:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)


Hello, I am currently translating into Russian several articles on prehistory of Ireland, e.g. Loughcrew. Can you please suggest correct pronunciation of the Lough contained in the names of Irish lakes? Regards, --Dmitri Lytov (talk) 11:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

It is close to "lock" - with a minutely longer emphasis on the "o". Sarah777 (talk) 12:18, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

The RfC on the Community de-Adminship proposal has begun

The RfC on the Community de-Adminship proposal was started on the 22nd Feb, and it runs for 28 days. Please note that the existing CDA proposal was (in the end) run as something of a working compromise, so CDA is still largely being floated as an idea.

Also note that, although the RfC is in 'poll format' (Support, Oppose, and Neutral, with Comments underneath), this RfC is still essentially a 'Request for Comment'. Currently, similar comments on CDA's value are being made under all three polls.

Whatever you vote, your vote is welcome!

Regards, Matt Lewis (talk) 10:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


Popular or what? --HighKing (talk) 21:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Face-glasses.svg This user is being watched by 149 other editors.
HighKing, how does one find out the number of editors watching us? This sounds like Wikipedia Review.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:47, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
I just found out and checked on myself; I've got 55 watchers. It's Not Fair, Sarah's got more watchers than me! Sob, sob.....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
I suppose there is no way of finding who these "watchers" are? OK, maybe 100 are from The Cabal - the rest....... Sarah777 (talk) 09:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
This is sounding more Orwellian by the minute.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:59, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Someone to claim us, someone to follow
Someone to shame us, some brave Apollo
Someone to fool us, someone like you
We want you Big Brother, Big Brother
--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:04, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

btw - I like Lilly Allen though she seems to be regarded negatively by the trendies - love the LND lines like

"There was a little old lady who was walking down the road, she was struggling with the bags from Tesco
there were people from the City having lunch in the park, I believe that is called al fresco"

Sarah777 (talk) 10:30, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Then there are the Lily Allen lines:

I lay here in this wet patch
in the middle of the bed
I'm feeling pretty damn hard done by
I spent ages giving head

Hmmm, is it just me or are there others who are nostalgic for songs like Tammy by Debbie Reynolds?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:30, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Glad to see romance isn't dead then! Do you think she wrote those lines as she was laying there? Imagine lying in bed as the wife/husband wrote the lyrics about the experience immediately after. Him: Was it good for you? Her: Hang on, I'm just finishing the chorus. Jack forbes (talk) 12:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
LOL! Or hang about, let me get my camera! This will make a good picture to upload to Wikipedia.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:54, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
For some reason the phrase "one track mind" jumps forth when I think of Jeanne :) Sarah777 (talk) 18:54, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
No doubt the constant viewing of Billy Bragg videos on YouTube has a lot to do with my having a one track mind.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Missing wikipedian

Wasn't there a girl called Sarah who once edited wikipedia? Wonder what happened to her. Jack forbes (talk) 19:34, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah! What gives? RashersTierney (talk) 20:04, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Life, I expect. Who needs to be here every day anyway? Come to think of it, who needs to be here any day? Wikipedia has such a gravitational mass that the irony of how monumentally overrated this website is takes quite a long time to fully appreciate. Despite its obvious evils, the billions turning their noses cannot be wrong. Maybe Sarah's become en-lightened. Matt Lewis (talk) 20:27, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Or maybe Rashers is right and she's been lost on the dusty roads of Ireland. You haven't become en-lightened yourself then Matt? Jack forbes (talk) 20:32, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
At least I don't keep taking 2 month Wikibreaks that last 2 days ;) The key to true en-lightenment is not signing in of course. Matt Lewis (talk) 20:52, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Just for that my next 2 month Wikibreak will last 3 days! That'll show you! Jack forbes (talk) 21:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
I just checked. My 2 month wikibreak actually lasted for 18 days. Not 2 months, but hey, it's something. Jack forbes (talk) 21:06, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Guess who's BAAAACK!!

Just around the corner......
...but too meaty for GB&Ireland geograph!

Hi folks. Busy, busy, busy! Whassup? Sarah777 (talk) 09:36, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Ah Matt. I believe in the notion of the everything-in-one-place version of Wiki. I'd never knock the vision, just the powered-crazed Admins :) And I'd purge some of the deletionists from the system. The Universe is big enough for everything after all, innit? Sarah777 (talk) 09:40, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
And after three months of relentless Winter, today, of all days, Spring has arrived on the Emerald Isle! Sarah777 (talk) 09:42, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, to jointly celebrate St. Paddy's Day and the return of our Sarah to Wikipedia. Where the h.ll have you been, anyroad?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:45, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Welcome back, Sarah. Found your way back from the dusty roads of Ireland have you? Jack forbes (talk) 09:47, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Dusty Roads - indeed. I have spared no effort to capture the latest shots of absolutely nowhere - all a bit bleak and frosty. The landscape is seared brown - not a hint of green to be seen. But wait till next week when the desert blooms! I was also "out of state" as the Yanks might say - doing a bit of skiing. Broke nothing important :) Sarah777 (talk) 10:13, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes I've heard about those ski instructors - big goggles but cold hearts. I'm very disappointed really - I thought you had broken free. Matt Lewis (talk) 22:27, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Sorcha, Tá fáilte romhat ar ais. Tá plé ar siúl ar suíomh idirlín Geograph faoi láthair mar gheall ar ag athrú an t-ainm is fuath linn. Tá siad ag lorg tuairimí eagsúla ar an t-ábhar seo agus tá fhíos agam go bhfuil a lán tuairimí agatsa ;-). Beannachtaí na féile Pádraig ort. (talk) 21:03, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Chonic mé an athrú so Geograph! Wiki getting more and more out on a non NPOV limb! (Even more) Sarah777 (talk) 21:47, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Ní fhaca mise é. For the benefit of the rest of us, what changes exactly are afoot? RashersTierney (talk) 21:51, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Féach ar seo! Sarah777 (talk) 21:56, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Of course I don't trust them - they are experimenting?!! What's to experiment? They have had an explosion of Irish pictures in the past month since they changed the name - when they have most of the country covered will they say - "experiment failed" - "let's stick with the BIs". Sarah777 (talk) 21:59, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
If, as they say, they recognise their former 'branding' as problematic, seems like a step in the right direction. No? RashersTierney (talk) 22:05, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I tried to load the pic on the right here (beside the Bloomfield Hotel near Mullingar) and after many minutes of hard work (by moi) they said - "too many MegaThingies, crop the photo and try again". I wonder what happened their last slave? I'm not feeling motivated to persevere. Sarah777 (talk) 22:20, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
They were also mighty curious about where I was standing when I snapped. They wanted coordinates! I ask you? Next Big Thing will be cameras with built-in GPS location of every shot recorded. Sarah777 (talk) 22:23, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Remember where you heard it first! Sarah777 (talk) 22:25, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
You have a good eye behind that lens, and I for one would like to see more of your 'stuff'. No plámás! RashersTierney (talk) 22:32, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanx Rash. (May I call you 'Rash'?) Plámás is not only welcomed but positively encouraged on this page. Sure don't we all get enough of the other :) Sarah777 (talk) 10:20, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I've loaded a grand total of 1 pic to commons and wikipedia. If they had asked me to crop it I would have just stared into space with a vacant look on my face (not unusual). I was once a very proud ludite you know, up until a few years ago. Computers, bah! Jack forbes (talk) 22:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Too many mega pixies - it's a common complaint with photo's from Ireland. It's the gold buttons shining through the undergrowth. Matt Lewis (talk) 22:41, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I remember when I uploaded a photo of my maternal grandmother to Commons. It was taken in 1919, and she's wearing this fabulous outfit that's perfect for the 1910s fashion article. Well, they asked me the name of the photographer as it was patently obvious I didn't take it myself!!!!!! Luckily I recalled my mother having said the photographer had been a friend of the family, but how in hell would I be able to locate the name of the photographic studio where it was taken in downtown Dallas (very close to where JFK was assassinated) in 1919?!! I tell you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:57, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Pictures for Geo

A Phallus hardiani for Jeanne...!

@Matt - LOL on the Pixies! Jeanne, would any copyright have expired on a 1919 shot? Tell them you took it yourself on a trip with Doctor Who.... Sarah777 (talk) 10:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Jeanne, I thought the "Picture of the Day" today would have a special resonance with you - so I brought it down here so you can get a better look (oo): note it's English name is Stinkhorn, so it may be an acquired taste! Sarah777 (talk) 10:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken it appears to be rising from a bed of bark chippings - there is surely some symbolism there but I can't quite grasp it. Sarah777 (talk) 10:29, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
It looks like a medieval microphone.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:38, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Anyone know what happened the "latest version" of the IrlProject article table? Sarah777 (talk) 22:31, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Why no articles? might answer your question. ww2censor (talk) 23:22, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
A bit of the proverbial Greek to me! - I reckon a SNAFU on the Bot front?? Sarah777 (talk) 23:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Indeed, that's what it looks like. ww2censor (talk) 23:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
All seems well now. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 15:32, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Irish roads

Apologies for contacting you directly, but you are the only regular Irish roads editor that I know! I know we haven't always seen eye to eye but input is appreciated. Consensus seems to be forming from the recent discussions in regards to the ELG that there should be a separate MOS entry for UK roads. Would it be a good idea for this to be titled something along the lines of "UK and Ireland" or "Great Britian and Ireland)" (I'm not totally up on the whole British-Irish terminology so I don't know which would be appropriate.

It may be a good idea since British and Irish roads in general share very similar characteristics, already, for example we share the same style of junction list (the one that has been causing so much fuss really). Alternatively it may not be such a good idea if it may cause more British-Irish arguments, though in this situation I wouldn't foresee that? What are your thoughts? You'll know who edits Irish road articles more than I do, there is no centralised discussion for this yet, perhaps you could direct them to this particular discussion in the mean time?

Thanks! Jeni (talk) 14:31, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jeni. I certainly don't have any objections to a combined MOS for UK and Irish roads which allows for the local differences arising from road categories etc; for example, m-way junctions are commonly signposted and referred to as "Exits" in Ireland etc. We have more or less copied the info-boxes and style from the UK pages though we have nice maps for the info-boxes that are different colours from the UK ones - developed by Sswonk. "Great Britain and Ireland" seems fine to me; it is, for example, the term commonly used with road atlases covering both countries. (Some people might prefer "UK and Ireland" as GB & I could, conceivably, be taken to suggest the two islands are separate politically thus suggesting Northern Ireland is part of the Irish State - Maybe not). I'm a bit out of touch lately - where is the discussion and what is "ELG"?! Regards Sarah777 (talk) 00:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
Springtime in Clogheen......

South Tipp photos

Just spotted your recent additions. Well done. So that's where you've been! RashersTierney (talk) 22:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

That's where I was last week! Sarah777 (talk) 22:42, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Clogheen had a kinda Appalachian look to it! Sarah777 (talk) 22:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
I note the articles on the Appalachians don't have a single shot of human settlement in the Wiki articles! Wonder why? :) Sarah777 (talk) 22:51, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Once the Dublin Cork east mail road was by-passed in favour of the western road through Cahir and Cashel, it was a slow but inexorable decline for Clogheen . RashersTierney (talk) 01:47, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Yep - the railways then the roads determined which places blossomed and which died. Sarah777 (talk) 01:51, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
The coach-roads pre-dated the railways, but the politics of where they went, as with the canals and railways is fascinating. Just been going over a (photocopied) history of the Ballyconnell canal, written about 1971 that I haven't studied since the renovation works in the mid '90s. Various routes were proposed for it mid 19c., but in any case it was redundant before completion due to the arrival of the railways. Which route wins out can seem so arbitrary and as you say, can soon relegate once thriving centres to backwater status. RashersTierney (talk) 02:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
The Appalachians' ancestry for the most part is Irish and Scots-Irish, with some English and Welsh.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
A group of Appalachians, c.1897
Clogheen Homestead, c 2010
Here's a wee present for you, Sarah. Kinda reminds me of the old Gary Glitter song Wanna be in my gang, my gang. Actually my brother's former girlfriend was a descendant of the Hatfield clan you see in the photo.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:17, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
That's the real McCoy - ta Jeanne ;) Sarah777 (talk) 20:18, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
You're welcome! Have you noticed that the guy in the back row, 5th from the left, with his hand inside his pocket bears a strong resemblance to Keith Richards when he was young?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC) that you mention! Sarah777 (talk) 23:30, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
He also looks a lot like Lee Harvey Oswald's mug shot!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:30, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Actually they bear a striking resemblance to some of my cousins! Sarah777 (talk) 23:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
From Clogheen? That would certainly give a certain intriguing symmetry to this little discussion : - ) RashersTierney (talk)
Indeed. I was visiting last week - as you see they have every mod con - an airy homestead with lace curtains, electricity and flush toilet within easy reach. Sarah777 (talk) 23:49, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
I think you're trying to talk the market up a bit. No way did that privy ever flush. Looks more like the very early efforts of The Specialist RashersTierney (talk) 23:59, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
You have a keen eye Rash - but you're a tad too cynical. Yes, it is an early Putt and the installation is an original Thomas Crapper. The cistern is fed from the gutter of the residential block and it flushes in wet weather. The electricity also works. (Or did till the cousins were caught tapping the grid). They are due to be released in July. Sarah777 (talk) 00:11, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
On mature reflection, I concede it just may be a later Lem Putt after all! And the weather should be better by July so less need for grid-tappin'. See! Really not so cynical. RashersTierney (talk) 00:26, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
And in July if there is no rain there is that wood behind the homestead. And you know what they say about bears.......Sarah777 (talk) 00:30, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Yer askin' do I know what they say about bears? ....... RashersTierney (talk) 00:39, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
You know damn well what they say.......! Sarah777 (talk) 00:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Surely your cousins don't let their infants play with six-shooters like they do in this photo?! Have you had a close look at some of the babies? They look more intimidating than old Devil Anse Hatfield himself. Babes in the Woods indeed.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:37, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Where is Rockpocket?

Now, this is what I call a sexy little black dress

I just realised we are veering towards a reminder of what Wiki Talk-Pages are not. Elonka is still out there. Well done to O'Bama (health-care) for helping to bring civilization in America just that little bit closer. So folks - could we focus of improving some articles? Sarah777 (talk) 00:53, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Back to business indeed. By any chance did you get any photos at Tubrid, not too far from where you were, or any other usable snaps in the general vicinity? RashersTierney (talk) 01:07, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Alas, the weather was dull; the light flat. So I took very few pics. None of Tubrid. Sarah777 (talk) 23:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Where can I buy this?

Sarah, would you not agree that this is a fabulous dress? A pity one has to take a time machine back to 1884 in order to obtain one just like it. Armani eat your heart out!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:53, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

It's spiffing, as they (certainly wouldn't) say in Clogheen! Sarah777 (talk) 23:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
A little less giddy tonight, Sarah? :) I believe there's a drink waiting at Jeanne's talk page. Jack forbes (talk) 00:07, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
That's the problem with giddiness - it wears off so quickly :) Sarah777 (talk) 00:13, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Sockfest at the 'Royal County' article

How come this silliness hasn't been spiked? RashersTierney (talk) 01:01, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Good question! I reported it to Rockpocket but he's gone AWOL. Bet if I started that sort of messing on a "troubles related" article 10 admins would appear like..PUFF! Sarah777 (talk) 01:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Tell you what Rash - I'll add in some reference to a Republican memorial (there is bound to be one in the town) - you delete - I'll restore - you delete - I'll restore and call you a vandal - you delete and call me a POV pusher and - hey presto! We are both blocked for 24 hours - (most likely by some British Admin :). Sarah777 (talk) 01:09, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Or maybe not. I've just reverted some blatant vandalism at one such article and am still nervously looking over my shoulder. RashersTierney (talk) 01:26, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Initiated Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Yoda23456. If I've missed any, feel free to include. RashersTierney (talk) 10:35, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Tóraidhe (Tories)

Sarah, here's a topic I'm opening as a note to you for the reason that you have gathered a large group of talk page watchers from both sides of the issues involved. You and many of your wiki supporters I think will find courage in it, and the opposite I hope will a least take a single minute to consider it. I see you have just started editing for the evening; I didn't purposefully time it this way but I'm glad you'll be able to read it afresh.

I'm on a wiki hiatus, an extended refusal to edit for, in many ways, the reasons sometimes stated by some who have “retired”. I am sure there are myriad others, IP editors and registered alike, who have left or lost interest for the same reasons. It involves an overriding instinct for self-preservation, an understanding that the desire to express one's self while adding the precious gift of knowledge to the world at large is in the end subject to cross-currents of opposition from pre-existing forces which, if they were to allow one to succeed, would lose their own power, and thus push back against with a ferocity that causes powerful low-frequency psychological damage. To wit: there is a concrete, systemic and diabolically pervasive bias built in to this project and indeed the English language which sustains a culture that has proven unable to find a way to see the evil within itself. It is what is now laughingly known, by its own bias-induced self-preservationist volition, the Commonwealth or if the truth be used in naming, the British Empire.

Thomas Paine, though not featured on any banknotes and a very late arrival to the lead-up to the American Revolution, was probably the single most influential revolutionary figure of the late eighteenth century, having his writings inspire both Americans and Frenchmen to throw off the chains of monarchy. In Common Sense he wrote:

There is something exceedingly ridiculous in the composition of monarchy; it first excludes a man from the means of information, yet empowers him to act in cases where the highest judgment is required. The state of a king shuts him from the world, yet the business of a king requires him to know it thoroughly; wherefore the different parts, unnaturally opposing and destroying each other, prove the whole character to be absurd and useless.

Paine is an example of a British citizen – when writing his great works he was fresh from London and not witness to much of the previous goings on in Boston, Williamsburg and Philadelphia – who was able to see the tremendous faults within the society he was a member of. A modern example of Paine, an Englishman who brings ideas decades if not hundreds of years ahead of what can be conceived by his fellow countrymen, was John Lennon. Although given tremendous wealth and influence by the success of the Beatles, he did not back away from questioning and in fact battling the structure that allowed him freedoms nearly everyone else within it couldn't enjoy. In his song Lennon wrote:

As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Corporations are the modern monarchy, and they are carrying on the work begun by the British Empire to control and devour the better and freer thoughts of individuals who don't share their “commonwealth”. Paine and Lennon knew this, I know it, you know it and many of your readers know it. The one's I am trying to reach here are those who are mildly amused by and dismissive of the truth of the sociolinguistic bias that you so rightly point out. They may sympathize, and see a brief flash of validity in what you have written, yet time and again fall back to support what is already in place. They are unable, as the Empire has been unable, to truly understand what “the fuss” is about.

Wikipedia is completely under this spell that is centuries old. Essay after essay, ruling after ruling, debate after debate this sense that “nothing is wrong, what we have in place is best and nationalists are ruining the project” has won the day. The article about Ireland is still called by the name they wish it to be, and as long as it is, anyone with one gram of the common sense of Paine and Lennon should be able to see that the sociolinguistic bias of the British Empire has used that low-frequency mind numbing drumbeat, that so many have covered ears to and dumbly never protest, to maintain a status quo that only benefits the self-interest of the, as you have written, Anglo-American axis of power.

Yes, large segments of the United States social and economic infrastructure are in on this, all while they take time each July to wave red white and blue all over the papers and television. In some ways you are better off than me by living in a country that while still struggling against the oppression can at least still see plainly wherein the problem lies.

Tories have the money, the red-top tabloids with the page three girls and the five sentence articles on subjects that deserve volumes, and they are the seed from which this thick vine of control continues to spread. As Joe Jackson so brilliantly wrote in “Sunday Papers”,

Brother's heading that way now, I guess
He just read something made his face turn blue
Well I got nothing against the press
They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true
If you wanna know 'bout the gay politician
If you wanna know how to drive your car
If you wanna know 'bout the new sex position
You can read it in the Sunday papers
Read it in the Sunday papers

It's prolefeed. The Tory press and corporate controlled mass-media do nothing to lessen their grip by spreading impossibly banal reality television (Susan Boyle?), sex-, violence- and profanity-laced thriller dime novel drivel and news that is anything but. Of course I have no prudish objections to sex and profanity, but their use in the way the conservative traditionalists cynically talk down to the masses is perhaps the most maddening thing encountered in daily life. They seek to maintain the modern money-blessed monarchy by drawing the attention of as many potential truth seekers as possible to a stifling honeypot of base emotion and primal instinct suffused with sex and fear. Their smug hope is that by diversion toward gut, psychologically difficult to rationalize, feelings they can numb everyone to the more and more obvious factors of the built-in systemic sociolinguistic bias that maintains their power. It is truly, truly evil.

Some days I can keep sane by humming “these one way people gonna mow us down” from the Clash's “Charlie Don't Surf”. Others I have to let it out, and hope that by writing forcefully enough at least one of the fence-sitters or not-quite-completely-deaf will get that germ of recognition and start to think about fighting this evil. I am unable to do anything else on this project right now; my disgust at the sickness that pervades it, which allows an article about Ireland to not have the proper title and have its current title so conveniently explained away in the twisted logic I see everywhere else in the world, is too great. Slavery, monarchy, racism, oppression of women and lately against gays and lesbians have all either gone the way of human sacrifice, or have begun to slide into the bowels of the past where they belong. I don't know how long the built-in bias of English language will continue to flourish here. In the greater world it sometimes seems that the only extant struggle against it is carried on by the islamists, who are evil in an even more backwards and frightening way. So for now, I cheer your efforts and wonder at your gutty determination to improve coverage of your native country. The hope is that I can get back to doing some of it myself, but sadly right now I am not strong enough to overcome the weight of all the stares from these eyes wide shut.

Steve Swonk, Quincy, Massachusetts
Sswonk (talk) 17:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Agree with much of that Steve. I wish I could think of a better or more effective way than persistence and always-get-back-up-idness to pursue the goal of WP:NPOV in this little corner of the Universe. But I can't. Boredom is the thing most likely to make me lose the will to continue here - but so far, it has always passed. Sarah777 (talk) 18:16, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Yep, boredom and tedium are elements of my lack of interest as well but the crux of what I put above is true. It isn't worth it to me. Like some people can lift 100 kilos and others can't, I reached a limit to my patience and the enjoyment from Wikipedia editing couldn't sustain the weight of the frustration with it. I don't plan to defend any of this, but will likely be watching any sparks that fly. It stands on its own. You can carry the weight, all while being honest, I can only do the latter right now. Keep up the excellent work. Sswonk (talk) 18:29, 28 March 2010 (UTC)