User talk:JarrahTree/Archive01

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This archive page covers approximately the dates between June 05 and October 05

Please post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary. Thanks!

Franklin Dam[edit]

No worries. Generally, we title articles according to what most people know them as, and in this case, I think Franklin Dam is the name it's generally known by. It'd be a good idea to add that to the lead section (first paragraph though) - it's an important thing I'd missed. Ambi 09:29, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to make any changes if you think something's been missed - the Franklin Dam article was one I wasn't entirely happy with. By the way, if you were involved at the time, would you happen to have any pictures? This one could really do with a picture that's actually used legally. Ambi 09:39, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks muchly! Ambi 09:48, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi Vcxlor, welcome to Wikipedia!

My brief Hydro Tasmania article was basically written as a stub article, as I didn't know a lot about the company, but being a major part of Tasmania's history I thought it deserved an entry in Wikipedia. My very minor industry involvement is that I'm currently working as a contractor at Transend Networks - although not in the network group so I'm not all that familiar with that side of it! Your edits to the article are fantastic and give the article a much needed boost! Thanks for the note about your edits, although no-one claims "ownership" of any articles on Wikipedia :) -- Chuq 03:02, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

West Coast Range[edit]

Hi Vcxlor,

Would love to see some of those photos of the Franklin. I've put a Votes for deletion tag at the top of West Coast Range as it was a pretty ambigous name. The info would probably be better off here. Jgritz 08:42, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've unredirected the article anyway - I apologise for the initial error in redirecting it, as now that I think about it, it strikes me as quite a workable topic. One question, though - was there much convict settlement elsewhere in Tasmania? I just wonder if it might be better to make it an all-Tasmania article, but I'll leave it to your judgement. Ambi 6 July 2005 14:32 (UTC)
...what does the economic prosperity of the west coast have to do with this article? Wikipedia does not promote agendas. Ambi 6 July 2005 14:48 (UTC)

As to railways, I have no idea what you're talking about. Ambi 7 July 2005 12:05 (UTC)

some style pointers[edit]

hi vcxlor, thanks for the contributions to tasmania, just a couple of things:

  • don't add lots of blanks lines between sections or in articles, only one blank should be between paragraphs or sections.
  • don't add sections unless they contain at least 2-3 long-ish paragraphs (each about 4-5 sentences), see wikipedia:Use subheads sparingly

thanks. clarkk 7 July 2005 13:27 (UTC)

Re: Swan River anything[edit]

Hi Vcxlor,

I'm not aware of any precedent for including subject bibliographies in Wikipedia. But I also don't see any reason why they shouldn't be there. I certainly have no objection to creation of Bibliography of 19th century Western Australia. The difficulty is finding an NPOV approach to deciding what to include. How do we decide what books on 19th century WA history belong in the article? We can't include every book or we'd end up listing half the books in the Battye library.

Another approach would be to add "Further Reading" sections to specific articles, e.g. add a "Further Reading" section to Swan River Colony. Once the "Further Reading" section gets too big for the article, push the content out into a Bibliography of the Swan River Colony article, and link to it from the Swan River Colony article's "Further Reading" section. Hesperian 05:29, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Six Hungry Families[edit]

  • I remember reading about this in Stannage's "The People of Perth". Yes, that would be an interesting topic for an article. Hesperian 05:35, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I thought you might like to know: I just wrote an article on John Horgan. Do you know who the "Six Hungry Families" actually were? I think Leake, Shenton, and Burt. Possibly also Forrest. You said Hamersley. Who else? Hesperian 14:30, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Re: West coast wilderness cleanup[edit]

I found the mentioned article while going through Category:Rail stubs, sorting them into several newly created subcategories. There's a good start to an article there, but it needs some work; my goal is to get every rail-related article on WP up to featured article status. I'm in the middle of adding information to Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway and many sub-articles, like for all the company presidents, right now.

Regarding railroad vs. railway, I'm a little indifferent to it right now. As a crazy 'Merkan, I'm more used to seeing railroad for the generic term even though many companies used railway in their official names (like the Santa Fe). I tend to use railroad more often mostly because that's what I'm used to. I don't have any objections to using railway, I just try to be consistent in my own writing.

As to regions that have only seen a single national rail system, I'm not sure that there's any real problem with having articles about them here. I welcome any rail-related article and will do what I can to get them to featured quality (like Indian Railways or Căile Ferate Române, both of which are current featured articles). I'd love to see more thorough coverage on railways around the world; it not only increases what we've got here (and therefore also increases the amount of material that can be displayed on the Trains Wikiportal), but it also helps me to learn about systems that I have very little knowledge of already. slambo 18:14, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

A. O. Neville[edit]

Thanks for the info. Neville is on my long list of people to read up on, but not a high priority. The reference I had identified was "Mister Neville: A Biography" by Pat Jacobs (1990)... but perhaps this is the rehabilitative text to which you were referring. The other information are certainly interesting as anecdotes but I suspect it would be hard to find a published reference for them. Hesperian 23:44, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Parkhurst apprentices[edit]

It's not much, but it's a start: Parkhurst apprentices. Hesperian 05:08, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


Hi, thanks for your note. I wouldn't worry about preemptively disambiguating between the Javanese Imogiri and some other meaning. If someone comes along who wants to write about another meaning, they can either add a note to the top of the existing article, or move it out of the way and create a disambig page then. A fuller inventory of Javanese historical and pilgrimage sites sure would be great, though - do you know a good English reference for these things? Somebody must have written a book... CDC (talk) 16:16, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


Sorry to hear you've been unwell. Best wishes for a quick recovery.

After a recent attack by a troll who used my personal information against me, I have decided to hide behind an anonymous user name. Snottygobble | Talk 00:20, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


I was unaware that you were involved in the jarrah stuff; I'm certainly not following you around; since we share common interests these things are bound to happen occasionally.

Most of my jarrah-related edits were not wanton changes of capitalisation, but rather incidental capitalisation changes while I changed the link from the disambiguation page Jarrah to the article page Jarrah (tree).

Your comment prompted me to look for guidance at the Wikipedia manual of style, where I found this:

Whether the common names of species should start with a capital letter has been hotly debated in the past and has remained unresolved. As a matter of truce both styles are acceptable.

So I was out of line changing the capitalisation. I apologise. If you feel strongly about it, you are of course entitled to change it back. Snottygobble | Talk 23:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

JFNP vandalism[edit]

I like to leave a message on their talk page. There is a succession of Templates at Template:Test, Template:Test2, Template:Test3, etc, for asking people not to vandalise. i.e. the first time someone vandalises, you post Template:Test to their talk page (by typing "{{subst:test}} ~~~~"); the second time they vandalise, you post Template:Test2; and so on. Administrators generally won't block a user until all these warnings have been used up, so it helps with the process if you post a warning when something like this happens. I have posted a Test1 on the user's page. Snottygobble | Talk 22:17, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for your comments re my reworking the myths about Queenstown. I agree that there is misinformation surrounding the environment around Queenstown but I had trouble understanding the flow/intent of the prior text so decide to be bold and move towards the facts as I know them in leiu of more information on the myths. I will be revisiting the article to improve its accuracy and will readd some comments about popular misconceptions regarding the impact to flora once I can find some sources. Garglebutt / (talk) 14:13, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Nice updates to the article. It makes more sense to me now and is line with comments I had heard about the locals interest in the current appearance as a bit of a tourist attration. Garglebutt / (talk) 00:48, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


Have a look at Midland Railway of Western Australia.

Tabletop 12:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Bali bombing[edit]

I removed it because:

  1. It looked like a copyright violation.
  2. I assume the article will cover everything covered in the single unformatted paragraph... and more.

Later, --Merovingian (t) (c) 14:32, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

PS. What a day this is going to turn out to be...

West coast range[edit]

Hi. I'll see what I can do for West Coast Range (Tasmania). I'm glad you approve of what I did to Crotty, Tasmania - it actually ended up with more red links than it started with, although with a lower red:blue ratio. --Scott Davis Talk 03:55, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I get coordinates from Geoscience Australia. It's a public holiday here today, so I don't have the work/wiki problem (just the garden/wiki one). --Scott Davis Talk 04:16, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I got dragged to the garden for a while :-) I've had a hack at West Coast Range (Tasmania) and improved some of the disambig pages and so forth it links to. I don't intend to create articles for all the red links (there are enough red links in South Australia still), but I'm happy to improve them if you write a start. It may not be this week though. I suggest each day/week/whatever pick the most important one without an article yet and make a start on that. I find I end up with better short articles that way, without them looking quite so much like a mailmerged template. --Scott Davis Talk 11:32, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

No worries. My objective is to find all the misnamed and poorly categorised articles about places in South Australia, and improve them. The trouble is I keep finding stubs about obscure places most people never go to, and wonder what the fuss was about if they do find (eg Ooldea or Farina) it. Many of the significant towns country towns don't have articles of any sort yet (like Clare or Millicent). If I make more than a couple at a time, it shows. It's better to try to do more about less articles. I also try to copyedit or categorise any articles listed at New articles (Australia). --Scott Davis Talk 12:32, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Glad to be improving the overall project. The box at Mount Wellington, Tasmania presumably comes from the Wikipedia:WikiProject Mountains. They are probably happy to have it aded to more articles. Unfortunately the Mount Wellington one seems to be custom wikitable or HTML table, not a nice template. The project page describes how to construct the infobox using several templates. If you're interested in mountains, I suggest you join up to the project. --Scott Davis Talk 15:09, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Western Australian railway stations[edit]

It's really nice to see that someone's giving some attention to the closed railway stations over there (we only seem to have decent coverage in Melbourne at the moment, alas), but would it really be that hard to write a complete sentence? People should not have to come and clean up after you (see your Chidlow articles for a shining example of what I'm talking about). Ambi 13:53, 3 October 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for the encouragement. The Wikipedia flora articles are a bit of a sideshow at the moment: I'm been writing Wikispecies articles for every Australian Acacia species (see Wikispecies:Acacia). There are over 900 of them, and I only have 12 to go. Snottygobble | Talk 01:40, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Vandalism is a real shame, not least because fighting it wastes valuable contributors' time and enthusiasm. I try not to get too involved in vandal patrolling now; I flatter myself I can make more of a contribution by writing articles. Snottygobble | Talk 02:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

The West[edit]

Sure, I can have a fiddle with the article. - Mark 02:20, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Not much. I have a copy of "The Years of News" at home; it reprints articles from The West Australian right back to when it was called The Perth Gazette and Western Australian Journal. I've typed a few of its earliest articles into Wikisource (see Wikisource:Category:Western Australia). I also have an Early Days with an article on some of the early W.A. newspapers, but I think they were less mainstream ones. And I have a copy of All I May Tell floating around, which is the reminiscences of Victor Courtney, who was an early editor of the Sunday Times. One could fairly readily get hold of bios of Vosper, Cockburn-Campbell, and J.J. Simons. And I believe our friend Andrew Gill write a book about an event in W.A.'s newspaper history, entitled something like "The Death of the Free Press in W.A.". Beyond that I know very little about The West in particular, or W.A. newspapers in general. Snottygobble | Talk 02:46, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Bali bombings[edit]

Well, I saw it on television last night (to my revulsion). I haven't seen today's SA papers yet, and of the ES papers, I usually only look at The Age. Still, nothing as gruesome as that video the media played over and over of those poor Yank contractors being desecrated by a mob in Iraq.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 03:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Native species[edit]

No worries mate. Good work! -- Iantalk 11:37, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


Hmmm - good point, I'd prefer the current article to be expanded a LOT before splitting it up too much. But I'm honestly not that bothered if you think you've got enough to split it up. I'd like to see a lot more on the Causeway in particular. Regards -- Iantalk 07:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Book: nope, don't know anything about that. -- Iantalk 07:44, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Blatant vandalism[edit]

Hi, Vcxlor. I happened to notice your expression of frustration on's talkpage--I certainly don't blame you--and on AYArktos' talkpage. I thought you might be interested to know that there's a new warning template, for use when you notice a really bad user "contributing" nothing but lots of vandalism, especially when they move fast: {{blatantvandal}}. (Preferably, as with all vandalism templates, use in subst. form, as {{subst:blatantvandal}}). It's intended as a "first and last" warning, for cases where it seems like a waste of time to cycle through the whole test-->test2-->test3 business before you can block. If you slap on {{subst:blatantvandal}} immediately when you come across cases like, then the next admin who comes along can at least block immediately. Hope this helps, thanks for helping to fight vandalism!--Bishonen | talk 04:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

My RfA[edit]


Hi Vcxlor. Just wanted to thank you for supporting my RfA. I hope I will be able to live up to the confidence placed in me. --Cyberjunkie | Talk 03:49, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Mount Murchison[edit]

I deleted the article because it was useless - the content was basically self-evident from the article title, it consisted of all of seven words, and there was absolutely no attempt to make even a proper sentence. I know you can do better than this, Vcxlor - writing articles like that just means that other people have to come along and clean up the mess you left behind. Ambi 15:18, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I think a better way to put this is to say that articles will likely be deleted (see WP:CSD) if they are little more than a sentence and do nothing but (essentially) rehash the title. I know it's tempting to make red links blue, but there really isn't any point unless at least a stub of one or two paragraphs (a couple sentences even) can be written.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 15:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


I'm not really sure what you're asking. If they're vanity bios (where the subject of the article has written it and they're clearly non-notable, then you can nominate them for speedy deletion. Ambi 15:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Re stubs[edit]

No worries :) There are so many different stub templates now that it's almost impossible to keep up (unless you're insane enough to be part of the stub sorting project - and even then it's not easy). Grutness...wha? 00:45, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think a separate Western Tasmania stub is really viable at the moment. You have to go through WP:WSS/P and follow the instructions at the top of the page, but given th size of the Tasmania geography stub category, it doesn't really need splitting up (there are set "optimum sizes" for stub categories - too small or too big and they're not really useful for editors). There isn't a separate Tasmania-stub for non-geographic items though - that might be worth proposing. Grutness...wha? 00:57, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Mount Owen / Mount Owen, New Zealand[edit]

Hi. I'm not sure if you're aware, but copy-and-paste moves like you did there break the chain of history required by the GFDL copyright license. What you're supposed to do is use the move tab at the top to move Mount Owen to Mount Owen, New Zealand, which takes the history with it, and makes the old name a redirect. You then edit the new redirect to convert it to a disambig page, thus not losing any history. I've asked Grutness to use his admin powers to fix it this time. Cheers. --Scott Davis Talk 14:02, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Grutness has fixed it for us. Sorry if I sounded like I was running off to dob on you to the teacher :-) I find I do a lot of page moving to put things in the right place, and I got slapped over the fingers early in my Wikipedia career for moving Lake Albert out of the way to put a disambig page there. We all make mistakes sometimes. There are quite a few conventions that are best learned by watching the corrections to articles you edit. --Scott Davis Talk 00:19, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

JFNP & Perth[edit]

Hi vcxlor,

I'm still pretty active; I made my 4000th edit today. But I've been keeping a lower profile lately. Not intentionally, but I find I've been editing articles that most people couldn't care less about. Like Atriplex amnicola for example. I've just totally rewritten Banksia, so that should get me back on the radar.

I saw your comment on Talk:Perth, Western Australia. I think the "Music in Perth" issue is another example of the Wikipedia's systemic bias that is inherent in Wikipedia. Wikipedia contributors are more likely to be first world white anglosaxons, interested in computers, young, etc. The bias in the makeup of the contributors causes a bias in coverage of the encyclopaedia. We need people like you to help counter the systemic bias, in this case by providing details of the Perth music scene in earlier eras.

I didn't follow your comment about using my name in vain. Snottygobble | Talk 07:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi Snottygobble and vcxlor. Just a quick note to say that I don't think the edits I made to the "Music in Perth" section were an example of systemic bias. It was more an issue of removing some lines that just appeared to be lamenting the passing of old Perth bands. I'm all for unbiased coverage, and although I'm a first-world, white, anglosaxon who is interested in computers, I think that the history of Perth music and musicians is best thrashed out elsewhere, prior to incorporation in the main Perth article. Anyway, keep up the good work, you two. Cheers! :) - Gobeirne 00:06, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


I just discovered something that I think you would want to know. Radio call sign prefixes "VAA" through to "VGZ" are allocated to Canada. Australia has prefixes "VHA" through to "VNZ". Snottygobble | Talk 23:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Perth culture[edit]

Sorry for causing an edit conflict on the talk page - you know you can still save what you posted when that happens, right? In any case, what were you intending to say? I think a culture of Perth, Western Australia article would be a great idea, and Snottygobble's dead right above that we really need to not forget about the earlier years. Any chance you could get one started? Ambi 14:37, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

cat needed[edit]

I was just trying to see if I could fill in any of those. When I first started creating them, the cat had fewer then 100 items. Now it is over 200. I decided to spend some time in the past day trying to figure out some of them. I did not know I was following you in the cleanup. Vegaswikian 05:08, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I often wind up in strange areas doing minor cleanup. Sometimes I'll get into a new area, then look at the category entries to see if things make sense. If not, I'll look at the articles to change the cat and sometimes do minor work on the article. Sometimes changes will be made to articles on my watch list and I'll look at the see also listing to see if there is something better. Sometimes I'll just find an article that needs work. Sometimes when I'm looking at new artiles I'll try and see if there is a better article. Sometimes there is but I might clean it up before I do a redirect from the new article. Last week somone created a weak article for one of a pair of articls on my watch list and changed the link from the old general article to the new weak overly specific one in the other. That lead me into a few other areas doing research. Bottom line, I just flitter around. Hope this answers your question better. Vegaswikian 18:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


Category:Oceania buildings and structures stubs has only about 130 articles, so categories like "Perth buildings and structures stubs" probably won't get enough articles to be viable (the minimum is set at about 60 to 80 stubs). I have a feeling that the category and scope were created this way so that New Zealand and the Polynesian/Micronesian/Melanesian countries could be included as well. But if you want certainty, I think you can better ask the template's creator, User:Grutness. Aecis 15:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

USA articles[edit]

Possibly User:Rambot made most of these USA county edits, have you investigated this? Darling Scarp is a nice article by the way. --Commander Keane 16:14, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Oceania Struct Stub + my favourite topic of the night[edit]

Only just aware of this rather potentially explodable stub, is there anyway it can be split, or do you have to weight (oops) wait till its overweight? I mean I could put all the Tassie Hydro Dams, Snowy Dams, Melbourne, Sydney and the rest in here, along with bridges and things and we'd be up with the USA county arts (oh how I grieve when I do random search and find 1,000's of locations in the usa that don't have a single reference to the fact that they are in the usa) anyways, just thought I'd ask.

on the other subject, surely some clever cookie could bring the whole wikisystem down by running a bot on usa locations to insert "usa"? ( there must be 10,000 + locations and items that have no country identifier)

Second thing first - it's not just US places that need that. The number of times I've come across stub articles saying something like "Cleckworth is an English village near Stonebury." with no indication of where Stonebury is. A bot would be handy for those things, but how would you set the parameters for it?
As to Oceania-struct-stub, this is a pretty new category. Hopefully it will sometime get split, but it is really a case of waiting until it's big enough. The reason it was created like this is that there weren't really enough Australian structure stubs for their own category (when I proposed that initially it got turned down) but with structures in places like New Zealand and Fiji added in there were enough. So if we were going to split it, ideally we'd need not only enough Australian structures, but also enough non-Australian structures that we still had a viable category left. Which would probably mean a category of about 200 items in all. The main thing with stub categories is for them to be a reasonable size that editors don't have to wade through tons of items but still have enough stubs to work on in their specialist area. For now, that category doesn't take much sifting through to pick out the stubs from a particular area (being in NZ, I know this category pretty well!). So yeah, it's pretty much wait until it grows. Hopefully not too long. Grutness...wha? 00:20, 31 October 2005 (UTC)