User talk:Sawol

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Hey, you just moved Kujang (Indian town) to Kujang (Odisha). But, ain`t there two entities Kujang in India, one TOWN, and one TEHSIL (sort of a sub district)? Regards, Gott 02:35, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for visiting. I saw [1]. I think it will be fine without such two thing. If you want, do divide two entities. Sawol (talk) 02:48, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Why did you changed former Miss Korea winner's name?[edit]

You changed Miss Korea 2008 Na Ri and 2009 Kim Joo-ri's name. Na Ri did not compete as Na Ree in Miss Universe 2009. And Kim Joo-ri is not Kim Joo-Ri.

I will change again soon. Because my version is right. --Spatronic (talk) 16:13, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

I didn't change Kim Joo-ri. I changed Na Ree. I found youtube's material. Show me that Na Ri is correct. Sawol (talk) 08:36, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Proper Romanization[edit]

Hi, Sawol. I see your changes on some author pages I've been putting up... though those author names are NOT "proper" Romanization, as you clearly saw, they are the Romanizations that the authors have chosen and requested at the Korean Literature Translation Institute. You can see those Romanizations (some of which are quite weird) here: Ccmontgom (talk) 11:03, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

User:Ccmontgom. Thank you for visiting. Refer to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean). What is the proper Romanization? If you have another opinion, achieve consensus on that through Wikipedia:Requested moves. Sawol (talk) 12:19, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sawol.. Thanks for that link. l . I did look at the naming conventions and the first thing they say is:

1) Common usage in English. LTI Korea which is the government agency responsible for Korean author names, working with the authors when they can, is creating the common usages that the authors request - This database is giving Korea the preferred common uses because, if you look at many of the names, the common uses are multiple and have been made up randomly by foreign publishers (thank God the Wikipedia allows alternate names to be listed, that helps a great deal). These lbiguide "common usages" by the way, also reflect the Romanizations the author's want (in the cases that authors are still around to say). To not use this resource which is precisely in place to bolster common usages seems odd. What Wikipedia seems to be doing here, and with Korean government backed evidence that the authors don't want it, is automatically assigning rote Romanizations even when they sound infelicitous, or are actively opposed by the authors as demonstrated by their personal Romanizations on the Korean libguide. It confuses me that this seems even questionable. There are people who want their names spelled they way they want them, they have indicated this through the Korean government in a document that is instantly accessible and linkable. Why wouldn't we here at Wikipedia honor their preferences? Preferences, for that matter, communicated by the same government in charge of all Romanization?

Thanks for, I hope, working through that nearly tl/dr

I'll also, I think, have another question for you as you seem to have accurately tagged Seo-jong-ju for a copy and paste. But it's a copy and paste from an LTI Korea Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported page which should allow complete copy and pasting if we wanted to. And we very much do want to.^^ So I'm guessing I'm unaware of how I should indicate that largely unchanged text is being used with copyright permission? Is it use of attribution? I've looked at a couple dozen attribution templates, but none seems appropriate. Oh well, if you don't have the answer I can dig more..

Ccmontgom (talk) 16:12, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Ccmontgom (talk) 16:12, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Changes to Korean Author Names?[edit]

Sawol - I notice that you are changing Korean author names to "standard" Romanization. In this case, however, the changes should not be made as the author names on the pages reflect how the authors spell their names in English. This is reflected on the Korean Literature Authors Name Authority Database (created by the Korean government), which you can see here:

Changing the Romanization in these cases makes the Wikipedia pages inaccurate as it incorrectly represents the author names. In this case, shouldn't the Wikipedia respect the names of the authors?

Ccmontgom (talk) 21:36, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

My moves is not the standard Romanization. I followed the Wikipedia polices and guidelines. I know that the Wikipedia pages should reflect naming conventions (Wikipedia:Article titles). English Wikipedia prefers the name that is most commonly used (Wikipedia:Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names). Wikipedia doesn't prefer the author's chosen spelling of their name in English. And Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) shows that Chung Ho Sung is incorrect, Chung Ho-sung is correct. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters shows Chyung JinKyu is incorrect, Chyung Jinkyu is correct. If you want to collect many people's opinions, achieve consensus on that through Wikipedia:Requested moves. Sawol (talk) 07:45, 26 December 2013 (UTC)


Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png Edit-conflict barnstar
Looks like you and I had the same idea at the same time for 2014–15 FIS Ski Jumping World Cup. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 06:04, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

A nice cup of tea for you![edit]

Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg Thank you for your edits in the -do stubs. I just learned the words for west and east! Believe me, when you don't know Korean, and as long as both Google Translate and Bing are as daft as they currently are, any little edit is a challenge for me. Face-smile.svg Best, Sam Sailor Sing 13:56, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


A Barnstar!
The Korean Barnstar

The number of times you show up on my watchlist for having improved Korea-related articles is amazing. The work you do behind the scenes is extremely helpful (category management, ensuring articles are properly sorted, etc.) Your work is admirable, thanks for everything you do! Ry's the Guy (talk|contribs) 11:53, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Maengjung-ri vs Maengjungni[edit]

A question - why revert the change to the redirect? As I understand wikipedia policy, Northern subjects should reflect the northern dialect... 2Q (talk) 03:48, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Please follow Wikipedia:Moving a page#Moves where the target name has an existing page. Sawol (talk) 03:52, 1 December 2015 (UTC)


I might have made a mistake in creating a redirect from Chu (Korean surname) to Joo (Korean name), as none of the Pages that link to "Chu (Korean surname)" are spelled with . Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 09:10, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Leader's Greetings to you![edit]

name characters[edit]

Can you read these two sets on names for me? I can only make out that one is Kim and one is Jung something. Thank you!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:19, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for visiting here. I can read the image' characters. One is Hangul강영중; Hanja姜榮中; RRGang Yeong-jung; MRKang Yŏng-jung and the other Hangul김종필; Hanja金鐘泌; RRGim Jong-pil; MRKim Chong-p'il. Sawol (talk) 04:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Thank you! These are Korean Scout leaders who were awarded the highest Japanese award.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 07:59, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
This is what I was working on: Golden Pheasant Award, thank you so much!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks-I found Kim's dates at ko:한국의 스카우트 운동, but the characters didn't look the same to me, he seemed too young. I should never edit when sleepy. ;)
What does it say about Kang?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 07:56, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Kim Jong-pil is a nephew-in-law of President Park Chung-hee. Kim has been actively involved in political activities.
ko:한국의 스카우트 운동 says that Kang Young-joong served as Korea Scout Association President from March 7, 2008 to April 16, 2012. Kang is famous as the CEO of Daekyo (ko:대교 (기업)). Sawol (talk) 08:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Just wrote Kang Young-joong, I found him using his hangul at ko:wiki. It's short and not so good, but... :) Thanks! Please take a look! --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Can you provide one of your cool pronunciation boxes for Tiger Scout (Korea Scout Association)?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:29, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Thank you again! I just keep finding new Korean Scouters to write about! Sang-ho Shim Please take a look! --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 09:57, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Template:Current APEC foreign ministers[edit]

Sawol, can you consider withdrawing the criteria for speedy deletion on this APEC foreign ministers template? Try to read the talk page on this template. If there's any redundancy, try to make it more credible. I would strongly disagree with this template's deletion as there is a logical reason that it should be retained and therefore noted that this is not a CRUFT. Saiph121 (talk) 02:24, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for visiting. You already know the discussion Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 December 11#Template:Current APEC Foreign Ministers. Sawol (talk) 05:08, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
Can't you not at least spare this template or considering remove the notice of the criteria for speedy deletion despite of the information being mentioned? Saiph121 (talk) 05:58, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Kim Seong-il[edit]

Why did you move Kim Sŏng-il to Kim Seong-il? Turnbull and Hawley both use Song-il, not Seong-il. --Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 01:50, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Refer to The Land of Scholars: Two Thousand Years of Korean Confucianism. Samuel Hawley uses Choson, Pusan, and so on. His romanization is biased. Sawol (talk) 02:06, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
How is using McCune-Reishchauer biased? Also, I can't speak Korean, which that book seems to be in (All I see is a 'no' symbol with some Hangul underneath. The cover seems to be English, though..?)--Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 02:08, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Wait, it's English now.--Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 02:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Okay, one book uses 'Seong-il'. Two books use 'Sŏng-il' or 'Song-il' without the diacritic. It should be 'Sŏng-il', I think.--Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 02:11, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
McCune–Reishchauer of North Korea is biased. Revised Romanization of South Korea too. Anyway, there are many many examples Seong-il in many books Sungkyun Journal of East Asian Studies, 2001, Asian Anthropology, 2005, New history of Korea, Love Letters from Fathers, Korea’s Historic Clans, Korea: more accurate facts and information, Uncovering the Codes, The Traditional Education of Korea. The reason may be that more South Korean scholars actively study Joseon's history. Sawol (talk) 02:33, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I think the issue is that Kim Sŏng-il gets lost under books about Kim Jong-il in searches. I've found three "Kim Sŏng-il" or "Sŏng'il" so far, and will post as many as I find here, so we can see if there is enough of a gap to declare one the common name, or if there is no common name, in which case McCune-Reischauer should be used:

War, and Ethics: A Sourcebook of Textual Traditions, 2014, Great East Asian War and the Birth of the Korean Nation, 2016, and Korean War Captive in Japan, 1597Ð1600: The Writings of Kang Hang,2013 (translated), Earth and Its Peoples: A Global History, Volume II: Since 1500, Society: Civil Society, Democracy and the State, Korean Neo-Confucianism of Yi T'oegye and Yi Yulgok, Statecraft and Korean Institutions: Yu Hyongwon and the Late Choson dynasty --Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 02:44, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Could you open the discussion WP:RM? Let's reach the consensus. User talk space is not suitable for a decision between McCune–Reishchauer and Revised Romanization. Thank you. Sawol (talk) 02:58, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure we need to do that, given that I don't think anyone except us are really editing the article. But If we cannot reach an agreement, then sure.

Looking at the split between 'Song-il', 'Seong-il', 'Sŏng-il' and 'Sŏng'il', I think there is no common English name. According to the manual of style, it should then default to McCune-Reischauer.Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 03:04, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

No. According to the manual of style WP:NC-KO#Romanization of names, it should then default to Revised Romanization. "If there is no established English spelling, then Revised Romanization should be used for South Korean and pre-1945 Korean names, McCune–Reischauer for North Korean names." Kim Seong-il is the pre-1945 Korean name. Sawol (talk) 05:53, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I see. The Manual of Style was just talking about the actual text. It seems pretty weird that they recommend opposite conventions for the text and the article title, though. But then you are right, it should stay as 'Seong-il'.--Yellow Diamond Δ Direct Line to the Diamonds 00:32, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

SEPO in caps[edit]

Hi Sawol, sorry but how can SEPO in caps refer to sepo. SEPO is part of Ministry of Finance (Thailand). Please see G books. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:15, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Okay, anyway no problem. Maybe there is another use of SEPO in caps that I don't know about. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC)