User talk:Secret Agent Julio

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...And I thought I was jumpy!![edit]

Talk about being fast on those Mythbusters edits! I've been trying to do that for over a month but have constantly been reverted by... your thanker in order to adhere to the calendar year! LOL!StevieB5175 (talk) 01:03, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, some of that can seem a little odd, having to wait exactly until New Years. SAJ (T) 21:38, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 1[edit]

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List of clubs in the Bundesliga[edit]

There was a very good reason why the placings table in the List of clubs in the Bundesliga was split into two halves. A single table is far to wide to read, especially on mobile devices, but also on smaller screens. I prefer to go back to the old style for that reason but I'm happy to discuss it with you first. Regards, Calistemon (talk) 06:41, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry about the late reply. I see you point. Good day. SAJ (T) 19:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
No worries, I changed it back but kept your idea of linking the individual season places to the club's season article that you implemented for FC Bayern. I think it's a good one and should be applied to the other club's, where available. Calistemon (talk) 20:41, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes. Thanks for saving that part. I compiled a full list of season articles, but I do not have time right now to do it. I will hopefully be able to do it in the future. Here is a link. SAJ (T) 21:22, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Chromebook revert, no explanation[edit]

Please provide an explanation for this pure revert of yours: See revert policies: Marchash (talk) 20:30, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Was not really a revert, it just did not seem necessary. Information on the choice of code name is not relevant. SAJ (T) 19:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Maybe you did not intend it as a revert, but if someone adds something and you remove it then the section is obviously reverted to its previous state. If codenames are not relevant, shouldn't you also remove the codename column also from the other table? Codenames are not relevant to everyone but they are relevant to anyone who cares about what is inside their product powering it. This type of people is using codenames as opposed to official product numbers (another column you might want to remove, too). The table you removed allowed near instant identification of which product generation most Chromebooks belong to, so I still think it's useful. Maybe you can suggest a better place, I don't mind if it's relegated to some bottom "techie" section as long as the information is there. Marchash (talk) 07:08, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I did not intend to revert it. I was trying to simplify the table for readers. SAJ (T) 21:37, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Edit summaries[edit]

It's not appropriate to address editors directly in edit summaries as you did on the 2014–15 FC Bayern Munich season article. While I agree with the statement, to discuss contributors rather than content is bordering on a personal attack. See WP:NPA. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:34, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I probably should have just left a message on his talk page, but I was not trying to attack him. SAJ (T) 19:37, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

2014–15 FC Bayern Munich season edit[edit]

This is a very inappropriate edit. I think the club season article should be closer to Bayern's season article. I don't use the football collapsible template because the manual of style, which is a guideline, on Scrolling lists and collapsible content states that "Scrolling lists, and boxes that toggle text display between hide and show, should not conceal article content..." The guidelines are "sets of best practices that are supported by consensus." Also, the fixtures and results table that I have in the article combined some subsections that you have. Also, just having a list of players is redundant. This is because there is a list for appearances and goals. There is also another list for cards shown to the players. So, we really don't need a third squad list that is only there doing nothing. If you feel we should add certain tables, templates, etc, that you included, then feel free to leave a message on my talk page and we can discuss if it's suitable and how to incorporate it. Also, I had to change the table for the knockout phase because the colour for draw was overlaping over second and third rows. Kingjeff (talk) 08:14, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 5[edit]

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Template:Football box collapsible[edit]

Hi Secret Agent Julio , you have recently made some edits to Template:Football box collapsible. One of the additions is to list certain articles (currently 147) in the non existend Category:Articles using football box collapsible parameter assistantreferees. This category now appears at the bottom of these articles as a red category. See 2012–13 in German football for an example, that is where i spotted it. Did you intend to do that? Thanks, Calistemon (talk) 12:45, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh, most certainly not. I apologize for that, it was unintended. I thought the way I added it that we be so that it was hidden. I will remove it. The only reason I had added it to see how the parameter "assistantreferees" displayed if the national football association was displayed as well. It is not important whatsoever, so I did not create the category. Thanks for informing me. SAJ (T) 17:07, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
No harm done, I just had trouble finding where it was coming from until somebody at the Village Pump pointed me in the right direction. Thanks, Calistemon (talk) 21:07, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Good, I am glad the problem was solved. SAJ (T) 21:36, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


Hey, not sure. The drawing order was Wolfsburg first so i assume they would be the "home team" but like i said, not 100% sure. Kante4 (talk) 12:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks anyways. It does seem like that is how it is done. SAJ (T) 21:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Bundesliga matches template[edit]

Hi ,

I request you to comment on this discussion Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Germany_task_force#Updating_all_teams_season_matches.

--Rasulnrasul (talk) 21:17, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Done. SAJ (T) 21:35, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Infobox football club season[edit]

Hello. I noticed you've made several changes to this recently, and listed some new parameters in the Usage section of the documentation, but haven't actually explained, either in the Parameters section or at the template talk page, what they're for. I wonder if you might do so. Personally, I'm a bit concerned about the "extra information" parameter – it's generally not a good idea to encourage users to add unspecified bits of information to infoboxes. Thanks in advance, Struway2 (talk) 17:26, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Also, you've removed TemplateData from the documentation. It seems to me, looking at Wikipedia:TemplateData, that this isn't something we should be doing? Struway2 (talk) 17:32, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello. I mostly added parameters that were already in the code, but were missing from the usage section. The only one that is currently there is updated, which is straightforward. The "extra information" parameter I added because it was in similar templates, like Template:Infobox football league season and Template:Infobox football tournament season. I had copied a section over, so it was still there. I promptly removed it. I ended up just giving all of the parameters an explanation just to be helpful. I thought that TemplateData was the same as the table explaining the parameters. I did not intend to delete helpful content. You can add it back, although it is very incomplete. SAJ (T) 22:30, 3 May 2015 (UTC)


If you would kindly direct me to the pages that are using this template incorrectly, I'll gladly go through and fix them. – PeeJay 21:59, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello. Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner, I have been busy. I do not know exactly what articles, but it showed up when I used AWB. But I think that if people want to use it, let them. It is not that huge of a deal. It is a notable event in a match, but does not get recognized often. Obviously it will not be used that much, but those who want to should be able too. They already are doing that, and displaying the time outside of the template. Also, on the template for silver goal, I do not think having the time as alternate text is necessary. For screen readers, the time is already displayed. Also, the "st", "nd", and "rd" get messed up when in stoppage time. Also, you make football lineups, right? What background do you use? What about the kits? You said you use Inkscape? Thanks. SAJ (T) 17:13, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
I understand your opinion, but I have to disagree about missed penalties being important events. The important events are the goals themselves, not missed penalties or any red/yellow cards. We need consistency across Wikipedia's football club season articles and currently we have about five different standards, most of which are far too detailed. If an event is truly notable, i.e. a missed penalty that would have won the game, it can be mentioned in prose; after all, every article should have some sort of prose account of events, not just a sea of tables of data. I agree with you about the silver goal alt text though, as I've seen it's been deprecated in all the other match event templates too. And yes, I do a few match graphics. The background comes from the original file, and I make the kit designs by hand based on a standard shirt shape. Do you need any making? I intend to do the FA Cup, Champions League and Europa League finals when they roll around, but other than that I've got a fairly free calendar. – PeeJay 19:22, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
For articles that also document cards, I would say that then a penalty missed would probably also be important. I personally do not add it though, seeing there can be some situations where it is hard to tell, and it would look weird if they put the rebound in (i.e. Messi Penalty missed 85, Goal 85'). If you want to remove the penalty misses in matches from articles, I would just use AutoWikiBrowser. I do definitely agree the football club season articles are extremely inconsistent. There are lots of different styles used, and it can get pretty annoying. Even among seasons for the same club it can be inconsistent. Somehow, even in the same article it can be too. This article used three different styles for matches. And yeah, a lot of club season articles are just statistics, with no words. Another problem is that a lot of those articles will be started, but not finished. An editor will get inspired, and then realize the work it takes and will just stop. That leaves articles like this, which will probably never be updated. And for the match line ups, where did you get the original image from? It would probably be too much for me anyways. I just had this year's DFB-Pokal Final in mind, which starts an hour and a half after the FA Cup Final. Would you be able to do that? I really appreciate it. Thanks. SAJ (T) 20:36, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I think you're right that if we're setting the threshold for importance at the level of yellow cards, then a missed penalty might also meet that threshold. But in my opinion, I don't think even red cards are worth mentioning, let alone yellows, since they don't directly impact the scoreline. I think the club season article idea was originally opposed for the very reason you describe, i.e. people quickly losing interest, but I think they're worth doing, we just need to spend time at WT:FOOTY working out what the best format is and then enforcing the use of that format across all the articles (admittedly an onerous task given the thousands of articles that already exist and the thousands more that one day could exist). As for the line-up graphics, I can't remember where the original pitch map came from, but I just keep recycling old graphics to make new ones so I don't need to redo it every time. I can do one for the DFB-Pokal final, but I'd need a reliable source for the exact formation of both teams. Here I usually just go by what the host broadcaster shows on the screen immediately before kick-off. – PeeJay 21:30, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
OK. So I had a few questions.
1. So I was wondering, what style should be used on club season articles for match reports? I mostly see the template football box collapsible used. Is that the best style? Currently I am trying to create consistency within German club season articles, which is hard. Every editor has their own style.
2. Also, do you have any knowledge about how to make kits? I wanted to make one, but the instructions given on Template:Football kit are not the best. I probably could not make it anyways, though, seeing I am bad with working with images.
3. What would you consider a reliable source for a lineup? For reports, I use Soccerway. Is this reliable? They always have the correct information, unlike the common alternative among German football club articles, Kicker.
4. Do you think you could help make some lineups? It would be really appreciated. I was hoping to do that for the Bundesliga relegation play-offs. Here are line-ups for the first leg and second leg.
5. And did you still want a list of articles that have the penmiss template for in-game penalties?
6. One last thing, if yellow cards and substitutions are just as notable as penalty misses, should not penalty misses be included in the expanded line-ups, like on that Bundesliga relegation play-off section? Why would this be unfavourable? Or should it just be included in a written summary?
Thanks for your help. SAJ (T) 21:22, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
1) Unfortunately, the denizens of WP:FOOTY have never managed to come up with a decision about what format to use for club season articles. I'm fond of keeping it simple and although I'm a bit biased, I have to say I prefer the style I implemented in the Manchester United season articles. But like I say, I'm biased.
2) I used to make kits myself, but I don't have Photoshop any more. The best way to do it, I think, is to make the entire kit as one image then split it up into its constituent elements. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure there's a graphics helpdesk here on Wikipedia that could help you out. User:VEO15 is also pretty adept at doing kits, though I can't speak for how busy he is.
3) For formations, I usually just stick with whatever the host broadcaster puts up before the game (or in the case of European matches, what UEFA publishes in their pre-match press kits). I don't have much experience with Soccerway, so I can't say whether I consider it reliable or not, but I think I would try to find other sources first.
4) I could possibly do those line-ups at some point, but this week is bad for me as I'm in the middle of uni exams and searching for a job. I'll give it a look next week if you can remind me closer to the time.
5) No, that's okay. I think such a large-scale change would need more of a discussion, I just personally think that use of the template is wrong.
6) I don't actually think penalty misses are as relevant as substitutions or red/yellow cards, it just happens that people seem to think they're worth including in the {{footballbox}} template, so I used it as a point of comparison. In the expanded match details, I think we should stick with only things that the referee would note in his notebook, i.e. cards and subs. – PeeJay 21:35, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Here I am. I do have a bit of free time on my hands so what can I do you with? VEOonefive 05:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
Oh hey, thanks for the offer! I was hoping to create the third kit for Karlsruher SC, which can be seen here and partially here. They wore it during the Bundesliga relegation play-offs in the first leg. If you could do that, it would be greatly appreciated! SAJ (T) 12:32, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
I'll get it sorted soon. VEOonefive 23:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Proper Name for Darmstadt 98[edit]

While I do not necessarily doubt your knowledge on how the club's name is represented colloquially, there has not been an instance where I have seen the club's name represented as anything but it's official title of SV Darmstadt 98, and that includes on the Bundesliga website and on Wikipedia as a whole. Could you possibly provide a source that states the common usage of Darmstadt 98 on the SV Darmstadt 98 page itself? I think that would clear up any confusion - User:Jay eyemtalk 18:57, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Well almost all of these clubs are referred to by a longer name, which is used on the Bundesliga website and in Wikipedia article titles. But to prevent having to repeat these long names, it is easier to use the shortened one, which is easier to read. They are almost always shortened down to two words/phrases. Usually things like "SV" are removed before "98". This page has some more information on German football club names. SAJ (T) 21:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


Thanks for clarifying the deletion of categories on the page User:AmiableWookie/Möslestadion! In the future, if you add a note clarifying a change right away, it might lead to understanding more swiftly. Cheers, AmiableWookie (talk) 14:48, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello. Yes, I apologize for not explaining. I think my mind was on another subject, and I saw your page in the category, so I quickly removed it without thinking. I should have probably just hidden it the first time. Sorry for the lack of an explanation! Have a nice day. SAJ (T) 21:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

It's OK[edit]

Never mind. By the way, I have seen a template for Deportivo Alavés matches...all one of them! Keep up your good work this week '''tAD''' (talk) 21:55, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Ha ha. On a serious note though, I think that club probably does need a template for their matches. Here is what I propose:
So should I create it then? SAJ (T) 22:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
They already have one don't they? I'm sure I saw it on the 2001 final article. Maybe they should have a more general one like Wolfsburg? Your decision, of course. And maybe three is a good start for a Wolfsburg match template '''tAD''' (talk) 22:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Ok, so in all seriousness, I do think three probably is enough to warrant a template. So I went ahead and created Template:VfL Wolfsburg matches. Wolfsburg is probably going to be a top club in the next years, and surely there will be more matches. What do you think? SAJ (T) 02:01, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
I think you have a good sense of humor. Yep, three is a good start '''tAD''' (talk) 02:10, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


Thanks for your help with the Schalke Kits. I appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nico s04 94 (talkcontribs) 14:23, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

No problem. I was happy to help. SAJ (T) 17:28, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Current season[edit]

Please discuss this or this. SLBedit (talk) 15:15, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Article assessment[edit]

Feel free to assess the articles yourself. If you believe they'll all be of the same class/importance (as per WP:FOOTY's assessment criteria), then I guess it would make sense for you to tag them as such. I just don't like seeing unassessed articles if I can help it. I mean, there are currently more than 6,500 unassessed articles in this category, and that's just the ones that are tagged with {{WikiProject Football}}, but I can at least help by narrowing down the ones that are in the task force sub-categories. – PeeJay 21:07, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 21 June[edit]

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