User talk:Silver Shiney

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Hello, Silver Shiney, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Vancouver Outlaw (Speak) 10:26, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

New contributors' help page: Question answered[edit]

Hi. I have answered the question you asked at the New contributors' help page. Vancouver Outlaw (Speak) 10:30, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

re: Norris Anthony Grove[edit]

Hi, to answer your questions, it is still not eh place to write about the existance of a Christian God as a known fact. I personally am quite sure of His existance, and even more sure about the existance of a Satan, neither, however, are facts in the scientific term. (this is what faith is about).

As for a Christian revival in 1859-1860, it is certainly geocentric to refer to this as such. there was an indisputed revival of the Christian Brotherhood in England at this time... but there is none at all for a world-wide or even Christendom-wide "Great Awakening" of the scale as seen in the Americas and Britain around 1660.

---I agree with you in re: direct quotes from obituaries and such... If you can find a quote from Lydia Miller than would certainly clean-up the POV.

Cheers V. Joe (talk) 18:21, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


I reverted your removal of the EL {} as it is live and functioning. If you think a site is dead you should tag it with {{dead link}} as per WP:Linkrot. This allows editors to search for an archive or new version of the website. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 23:12, 27 March 2010 (UTC)


I reverted your removal of citation needed tags. Please see discussion page for more information. --Rantir (talk) 07:44, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article George Müller, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

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For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Please desist from removing valid maintenance tags. Further removal may result in your being blocked. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Nuvola apps important.svg You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on George Müller. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be blocked from editing. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 10:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I am not "engaged in an edit war" at all, and do not appreciate your comments. I have explained my position at length and justified the reversions made. Silver Shiney (talk) 13:26, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

You may feel that you have justified your edits to your own satisfaction but not in accordance with Wikipedia policies. Please read up on them. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 15:55, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I have read up on them and have seen nothing to make me change my mind. If I have misunderstood, then perhaps the policies need further clarification. Silver Shiney (talk) 17:32, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Need any help?[edit]

Hello, Silver Shiney! I noticed on the Wikiquette alert that you filed, you said you find Wikipedia extremely difficult to use and understand. I understand that Wikipedia can be difficult, and I'd like to offer to help. Wikipedia has an "Adopt-a-user" program where new users can be "adopted" by more experienced users, so they can ask their adopter any questions they have, and can get advice and guidance from experienced users about problems they might be having on Wikipedia. If you'd like, I would be happy to "adopt" you and help you become more experienced and knowledgeable on Wikipedia. I offer the adoption route because I happen to be involved with Adopt-a-user already. Even if you would prefer not to be adopted, my offer to help you if you ever need it still stands. If you ever need anything, just ask me at my talk page, here. Regards, SwarmTalk 04:21, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Swarm, I really appreciate this, and am grateful to you for your intervention. I'm not sure there's much more information I can add regarding George Muller himself. I managed to create an article on Henry Craik, but that was more by luck than design! I feel the story of the Ashley Down orphanage itself is worth an article on its own, perhaps under the heading of the George Muller Trust (as it now is) as a) I am not sure that details of these are necessarily appropriate on the GM article and b) GM died in 1898 and the story is still continuing even though Ashley Down closed in the 1950s. What would your views be on that?
Kind regards
Silver Shiney (talk) 06:15, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Hm, well, is the Ashley Down orphanage notable enough for its own article? If you can show that it is, there's no problem with creating an article for it. SwarmTalk 22:54, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Probably is notable enough, a listed building, used by City of Bristol College [1], some parts now housiing. I have placed three geograph images into commons, File:City of Bristol College, Ashley Down.jpg, File:Cabot House, Ashley Down.jpg, File:Brunel House, Ashley Down.jpg. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 23:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Alright, and would you be able to provide a reasonable number of references for the information? SwarmTalk 00:26, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Not off-hand, but Silver Shiney could have a go at that, may have sources in the trust, otherwise Bristol Library, the listing information at Bristol City Council and English Heritage, Latimer's Annals of Bristol in the 19th century (available online at the Internet Archive, City of Bristol College archives, Bristol Polytechnic archives, Brunel College archives, etc. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 00:36, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
English Heritage listed buildings details for Brunel House Muller Homes, Muller House Muller Homes, Cabot House Muller Homes, Swimming Baths Muller Homes. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 00:47, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Well, sounds fine for its own article to me. SwarmTalk 02:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Thank you, gentlemen, for your comments. I would be looking at information in Muller's autobiography and Narratives, together with those of his successor, James Wright, on how the buildings came to be erected, daily life, usage (eg change of policy to accept "partial" orphans from 1901), what happened during the second world war, and the closure and move to smaller houses around the region. I wouldn't be able to write on their use since the buildings were sold, although clearly that would have to be included. Silver Shiney (talk) 06:06, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Might I suggest that you start an article in your own user space, and shout if you need help. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 22:23, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, please see Wikipedia:User_space for details on how to create a subpage. You shouldn't be using your main user page to make a sandbox, instead why not create something like User:Silver Shiney/Ashley Down Orphanage to start work on an article. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 07:54, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I typed "sandbox" in Wiki's help feature and thought I'd followed the instructions. It certainly didn't take me to the page you've directed me to. I'm afraid that page is absolute gobbledegook to me. "You can create subpages such as User:Example/draft article on violins or User:Example/test and related talk pages at will, by navigating to the page and clicking the Start the ___ page link." I don't see a "Start the ___ page link" anywhere. says ""To create a user subpage, see Wikipedia:User page#Creating user subpages." - this is taking me round in circles. is a bit more helpful - though it could have been made clearer for ignoramuses like me had it made it crystal clear that I was to put the "/sub page title" in the URL bar of my browser...... I THINK I've done it now. Silver Shiney (talk) 09:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Swarm, I didn't realise I had to click on the link you provided to be "adopted". I didn't see you name on the list of available Adoptors - am I doing something wrong again? Silver Shiney (talk) 09:43, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Girlsuniforms.JPG[edit]


Thank you for uploading File:Girlsuniforms.JPG. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. feydey (talk) 13:19, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I've hopefully changed the status to Public Domain (by uploading it again - I can't see how to edit such information), but I can't see that being reflected on the metadata. I took this photograph myself, and am releasing it to the PD.Silver Shiney (talk) 14:03, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I have fixed this by adding the correct license, also a better description and come categories. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 19:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Thank you.Silver Shiney (talk) 08:01, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Help with removing Draft in my Userspace[edit]

This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can ask another question on your talk page, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse.

I've been editing a new article at User:Silver_Shiney/draft_article_on_New_Orphan_Houses and have now posted it as a live article. How do I delete the draft from my user area, please? Silver Shiney (talk) 15:26, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Please read the section on Wiki named Wikipedia:Criteria for Speedy Deletion which covers this. Most directly since it is in your userspace check out General - G7 and User Pages which deals with author requested deletions. Hope this helps! --WolfnixTalk • 15:39, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I've deleted it for you. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 15:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Thank you, gentlemen! Silver Shiney (talk) 19:00, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem! You may wanna consider reading WP:HELP which is Wikipedia's portal for help and [[H:MARKUP] Wikipedia's portal for it's markup since I have noticed you are familiar with the coding. --WolfnixTalk • 19:25, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Wolfnix, I'm not at all familiar with coding - I did a heck of a lot of cribbing and testing to get this far! I'm trying to learn the niceties of Wiki but my ol' brain is rebelling at taking in the information :-( Silver Shiney (talk) 19:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

edits by[edit]

This appears to be you editing logged out and being upfront about it. I wrote there: "I've just reverted an edit by you that's a pretty obvious violation of WP:ERA. That's our guideline, and if you don't like it avoid articles that use BCE/CE. I see someone else reverted you at Solomon, citing also WP:ENGVAR. Dougweller (talk) 08:49, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

It would be easier if Wikipedia stopped using this offensive notation! I note that it says "BCE" can be an acronym for "Before Christian Era" - I have NEVER heard it defined as such before.Silver Shiney (talk) 09:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

And BC/AD is offensive to others. BCE/CE is used by a number of Christian scholars, by the way. Dougweller (talk) 04:55, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. It's only offensive to those who try to airbrush Jesus out of history. Silver Shiney (talk) 05:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Or people who have other religions and thus don't think Christianity is true. Nevertheless, your edit violated WP:ERA and I'm asking you not to do this again. Dougweller (talk) 09:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Again, I'm afraid this is nonsense. The majority of followers of other religions are against the backlash against Christianity (of which this is one pathetic example) - you only have to read the newspapers for evidence of this. Nevertheless, I am aware NOW that my edit was in contravention of Wiki's childish rule and will not correct these errors again. Kindly note, however, that there were other instances in those articles where previous editors had CORRECTLY used BC instead of the PC gibberish. If it was that important to you, you should have corrected those earlier. I was merely regularising the errors in line with previous editors who used the correct annotation (irrespective of Wiki's views on it). My understanding had been that Wikipedia required information to be correct and not subject to a personal point of view. As it has been clearly demonstrated that the refusal to use the accepted BC/AD annotation, it is evident that Wikipedia is in breach of its own rules. This discussion is now closed.Silver Shiney (talk) 12:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

File:Wilson Street.jpg missing description details[edit]

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I have looked at the help page you refer to and it means less than nothing to me. Exactly what information is it that I am supposed to include?Silver Shiney (talk) 12:07, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


I just saw your exchange with User:Kingjeff in the George Müller article. While it may be true that Müller "always took care to place the two dots over the letter 'u' to form the umlaut", Mueller isn't just "an anglicised version of Müller". Even in German, ä, ö and ü can be replaced by ae, oe and ue if the umlauts aren't available on the typewriter or keyboard; in crossword puzzles, this is common practice as well, and there are even place names that are officially spelled with oe or ue, for example Oebisfelde, Oelsnitz, Oerlinghausen, Uerdingen or Uelzen. So Mueller wouldn't be regarded as a "misspelling" in German, but as a permitted "ersatz spelling". – Schneid9 (talk) 13:35, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Be that as it may, Müller never adopted it so, in this case, it IS a misspelling.Silver Shiney (talk) 13:38, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, Müller wasn't a printer, so for him there was of course no need to write Mueller instead of Müller. However, I can see no evidence that Müller forbade anybody to use the common German "ersatz spelling". In any case, the expression "anglicised version" is clearly wrong. This has nothing to do with English. – Schneid9 (talk) 14:39, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
No he wasn't, but he arranged the printing of his lifestory and the annual reports, and nowhere does "ue" appear. As for the veracity of "Anglicised version", maybe you should tell the people who contact me insisting it is an "Anglicised version"!! Silver Shiney (talk) 15:42, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
OK, but does the word "anglicised" also occur in Edward Groves' account? If it doesn't, it is unsourced and shouldn't appear in the article (the only spelling that could justifiably be called "anglicised" would be Muller!). What about this wording: His name is frequently mis-spelt as "Mueller", particularly in the US. Whilst "Mueller" is a possible substitute spelling for "Müller" in German, George Müller never changed his name from the original spelling etc. – Schneid9 (talk) 16:28, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
That seems to me to be a reasonable compromise! Silver Shiney (talk) 18:16, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
As a native speaker of German, I might add that Müller's alleged remark about the different pronunciations of Müller and Mueller must either be a misunderstanding of Edward Groves or evidence of Müller's unlearning of the German language. There is no such difference: both spellings would result in the sound [ʏ] (which is unpronounceable to most English speakers anyway, Groves probably included). The alleged pronunciation Meller is only possible if you leave out the u in the spelling as well. – Schneid9 (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Quite possibly, I had wondered about that pronunciation. Regarding him "unlearning" the German language, I doubt that very much, as he was fluent in six languages. However, I can only go by documented historical evidence, not conjecture.Silver Shiney (talk) 15:42, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

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Copyright problem: Gottfried Müller[edit]

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don't know why you left this on my talk page?? Silver Shiney (talk) 14:12, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Because when you created the article you copied it from [2]. Doug Weller talk 15:45, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
I created it? Sorry, have absolutely no recollection of that. Humble apologies if I've inadvertently caused a problemSilver Shiney (talk) 15:48, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Just to jog your memory, here is a link to where you first created the article [3] Theroadislong (talk) 16:14, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Goodness, so I did. However, the words at the top "Work in progress - please do not alter" should have indicated that there was more work to be done. However, I had totally forgotten all about it :-( Silver Shiney (talk) 16:27, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Having thought about this overnight, I simply cannot remember why I started this article so please feel free to delete it. Again, apologies for any problems caused.Silver Shiney (talk) 12:30, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

About warnings[edit]

Please note that you are of course in charge of your own talk page, and you are free to remove warnings if you like. However, it MAY be seen as not showing "bad faith", ie an attempt to hide that you got warned. Just so you know. Obviously, this does not apply to old warnings. If I were you I'd leave the warning for a few weeks, but remove all discussion about it, as it's not constructive. In any case, ponder the warning in your heart. Thanks! --OpenFuture (talk) 12:39, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

As the warning itself was not constructive, it was right to remove it, to save the embarrassment of those issuing it.Silver Shiney (talk) 19:46, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

1856 shipwreck[edit]

Re this edit, is there a copy of the letter available online? Otherwise, has the information been published in a book? If so, I can help with sorting out referencing. Mjroots (talk) 17:29, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that. The letters aren't online at this time, but (if I can remember how to do it) I'll upload them tomorrow morning.Silver Shiney (talk) 19:47, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I forgot about this until a few moments ago :-( I've now uploaded the two letters (the second one is two images):,, These documents are held in the archive of The George Müller Charitable Trust, of which I am the archivist/curator, and were discovered when researching the boy William Bains, who was admitted in 1858, as I wanted to find where Long Sand is, and came across Wiki's "list of shipwrecks". Many thanks for your willingness to help.Silver Shiney (talk) 12:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 2[edit]

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Hopefully now corrected Silver Shiney (talk) 12:06, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 9[edit]

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humble apologies - hopefully now correctedSilver Shiney (talk) 12:01, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

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