User talk:Smallchief

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--Smallchief 17:19, 3 December 2010 (UTC)Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, please do not add promotional material to articles or other Wikipedia pages. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" is against Wikipedia policy and not permitted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Tedickey (talk) 15:47, 14 March 2010 (UTC)


Joining NorthAmNative Project[edit]

Hi Smallchief. Go here WP:IPNAPART and add your sig , then go here WP:IPNATEMP and grab a template for your userpage, if you like. Welcome! Duff (talk) 05:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Salinas basin.jpg[edit]


Thank you for uploading File:Salinas basin.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. FASTILYsock(TALK) 18:37, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits[edit]

Information.svg Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button Button sig.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 22:07, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

File:1. Ament.jpg missing description details[edit]

Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:1. Ament.jpg is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers.

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If you have any questions please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Bobby122 (talk) 23:15, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Nicolas de Aguilar[edit]

RlevseTalk 06:05, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Council Grove, Kansas[edit]

Please add references to the text you added. I seem to remember someone adding similar text in the past months, and then someone removing it. Thanks. Sbmeirow (talk) 16:29, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I didn't add the text, I just fixed it it up so it would display properly. User:Smallchief

Merging articles[edit]

I see you've deleted my article "Seymour Expedition, China 1900" to "merge" it with one called "Seymour Expedition." May I suggest you take anther look at the two competing articles. My article is, or rather was, authoritative, well-sourced, impartial, and accurate. The other one is not. Perhaps before you merge articles you should consult people who had a hand in drafting the articles? Or undertake a qualitative review of the two articles? If you had taken the time to read the two articles I believe you would not have deleted mine. User:Smallchief 19:30, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you understand the point of Wikipedia. You do not file an article like a newspaper report, you add to existing ones. You cannot have two articles on the same matter, that is a cornerstone of Wikipedia policy.
Your article has not been deleted, it has been redirected. You're more than welcome to add to the other one. John Smith's (talk) 20:32, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
One would think that the cornerstone of Wikipedia would be to provide accurate and impartial information to the public. My article did that. The other one does not. If you will look at nearly all the articles regarding the Boxer Rebellion, and the discussion pages, you will detect a pattern of serious bias in the articles. I've tried to correct that bias. Several others have worked harder at it than I have. We've been unsuccessful. The article you kept is an example of that bias. I was trying to rectify the situation by writing an alternative article with the expectation that an editor considering a merge would take the relative quality of the two articles into account. In the 100 plus articles I have written or edited for Wikipedia I've never had anybody reject, or even seriously criticize, my work. Edit, yes. Improve, yes. Delete, no. User:Smallchief
If my article has not been deleted, where is it? How can I recover it with all the Wiki-code intact so that I don't have to re-write it completely. User:Smallchief
First of all, I suggest you have a root around the "help" section on the main page. That will help you understand better how to use Wikipedia. I know there's lots of bias on Wikipedia, but the best way is to improve existing ones. Otherwise you will have articles fully deleted.
When an article is redicted its history is kept intact. Your article history is here. The code is available here, but as I mentioned earlier please do not copy and paste. Even if it takes you a while, please improve the existing article. That does not mean you cannot make substantial changes to content, layout, style, etc. John Smith's (talk) 21:23, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. But let me suggest that the next time you "merge" articles by deleting one of them, you pick the better one to keep. Or if you don't know which is the better, perhaps you shouldn't be involved in the decision? User:Smallchief
Actually per Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia Smallchief can copy and paste the stuff from the old article (Seymour Expedition, China 1900) into Seymour Expedition as long as he attributes the source in an edit summary with the link provided, you will have to provde,_China_1900&redirect=no in the edit summary.
you can copy and paste your sections from the old article into Seymour Expedition, but do not delete the existing summary, if you want corrections suggest them in the talk page.
from what i see, your article provided a general summary of the whole expedition, while mine provided details of a series of battles in that expedition albeit i did not mention every single battle such as Xigu forts etc. and the article was seriously incomplete, i was not done working on it. And by the way my article is not some unsourced dump of assertions, the sources used actually back up the events described in the article.
about the "serious bias" you assert, you have inexplicably deleted referenced information without giving any reason. You said earlier that it was an "earlier battle". I never said that the statement the people in the legations received was true, that would have been original research. Instead, i just stated exactly what message they received.
a search of the site on google says: "They'd received the good news that the detachment of theirs with Seymour's Peking Relief Expedition which had been soundly defeated at Yangtsun by the massed forces of China' Kansu Muslim Army, had fought its way to Hsi Ku Arsenal only eight miles from Tientsin and was holding out there with Seymour"
And on the nianhua, if you wanted that corrected, instead of using original research, such as claiming the Empress was misinformed, you should have added that the nianhua was propaganda and created by artists who did not view the alleged event. If source A said event X happened (such as Cixi receiving news of a victory), and source B said event X did not happen(no victory occured), you cannot say that source B proves that event X happened due to Cixi being misinformed, because Source B never said that. You can question the reliability of Source A, and add to the article that Nianhua may be unreliable, you can say that "according to Source B the events in Source A are false", but not synthesize. see Wikipedia:No original research. I have already added that the nianhua were by authors who never witnessed the battles, and depicted "alleged" events to the article.Дунгане (talk) 06:56, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Please read WP:OWN -- once you contribute an article to Wikipedia it takes on a life of its own. If the community decides that it is better to have one instead of three articles on a subject, the articles are merged together. As for creating a second article on the same topic, just because you want to write it with different text... well WP:CFORK says that should not be done. If the newer article on the same topic is just a rewording of the first article without presenting new facts, it can be deleted through {{db-same}} quickly, so when you create a new article on the same topic, you are in danger of being swiftly deleted. The articles pointed out here that you have created were not deleted, but neither could two articles on the same topic continue to have separate existences on Wikipedia, since no encyclopedia has multiple articles on the exact same topic. (crack open a deadtree Comptons Encyclopedia and see how many articles about hydrogen exist) What you should have done was contribute to the existing article by revising it, adding sections and information, much as how you would renovate a house. Your contributed articles have been incorporated into the preexisting articles, through merger of content. (talk) 09:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
We owe it to readers of the present text of the "Seymour Expedition" article to warn them. Please put a banner on the article: "The accuracy and neutrality of this article has been questioned." Or tell me how to put up such a banner. You will find several such warnings on the parent article, "Boxer Rebellion" for very much the same reasons that readers of the "Seymour Expedition" should be warned.
What Arilang1234 was complaining about on the talk page, and what you were complaining about were very different. Arilang1234 edited the article in insert insults, calling Boxers "salavages" "stupid" "arsonists", and "bandits", and describing manchus as "barbaric" "Tribal rulers". He also insisted Manchus were not chinese, and were barbarians because of that. Basically, if you think he was correcting bias in the article, you are very wrong. Go check out the earliest archives of the talk page where users voiced concern about his mass spamming of the article in 2008, and he insisted that insulting terms like bandit be added to the article.
In other words, he didn't want to correct any bias in the article, rather, he wanted to add bias from the very, very opposite direction.
you were discussing the unreliability of the nianhua, and you attempted to correct it by making the mistake i already mentioned to you yesterday. You can say the nianhua captions are inaccurate and alleged, but you cannot synthesize and make up original research explanations as to why.
As i said, you can copy what you did on your seymour expedition article, and paste it onto the new one, as long as you include a link to the old one in your edit summary. You can even add a neutrality banner specifically to the section where my material is and leave yours alone, as long as you don't delete anything.Дунгане (talk) 20:18, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Mixton war[edit]

Thanks for your expansion! It has been on my to do list for a long time - I was just writing the article about Bartolomé de Ls Casas including information about his meeting with Francisco Tenamaztle when you expanded the article! And I included material about the atrocities of the war into the article on Antonio de Mendoza a few days ago. Thank you so much! Keep up the good work - I see yo have acces to many gopod sources! There is a lot of work to do on the early history of New Spain. Best regards.·Maunus·ƛ· 17:49, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

  • Thanks. Although I've done several articles about the Indians and the Spanish in New Mexico this is my first effort at New Spain history. I'll be improving and correcting the article for the next day or two -- and I would welcome your efforts also as I am sure there is more that can be said about the Mixton War. You're right that there is a lot of work to be done. Smallchief 18:00, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Milhist A-Class and Peer Reviews Oct–Dec 2010[edit]

Wiki-stripe1.svg Military history reviewers' award
By order of the Military history WikiProject coordinators, for your good work helping with the WikiProject's Peer and A-Class reviews for the period Oct–Dec 2010, I hereby award you this Military history WikiProject Reviewers' award. AustralianRupert (talk) 06:20, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Keep track of upcoming reviews. Just copy and paste {{WPMILHIST Review alerts}} to your user space

New wikiproject?[edit]

Hi, I'm researching the possibilities of creating a new WikiProject:Indigenous peoples of the Americas because articles about indigenous peoples in the Caribbean, Central, and South America, especially contemporary peoples, are woefully neglected, and cross-regional exchanges tend to be ignored. Would you have any interest in such a project if it was created? Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Yes, I'd be interested -- although I can't claim much knowledge of Indians in the Caribbean, Central America, and South America. I am working on a series of articles about the Spanish and Indians in northern Mexico, if that fits into your scheme of things. Beyond that, I would probably be most interested in early Spanish interaction with Indians in the Caribbean and could do some research and create or add to articles. Throw out a few specific topics that need to be covered and I'll see if any of them excite my interest. Smallchief (talk) 20:22, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
That's excellent to hear! The proposal for the new wikiproject is here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Indigenous peoples of the Americas. Feel free to add to the scope or direction of the project there. A list of needed articles could be drawn up if the project is approved. BTW do you speak Spanish? That would be such a great asset. My Spanish isn't so hot but I'm trying to improve with Rosetta Stone. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 20:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
I speak and read Spanish fairly well -- well enough to read a newspaper without much difficulty, but not well enough to comprehend a treatise on nuclear physics. :)Smallchief (talk) 20:50, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
You are well ahead of me! -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

2010 Census[edit]

See User:Sbmeirow/RecommendedChangesToArticlesFor2010Census for how we are adding 2010 Census to cities and counties in Kansas. I haven't added the instructions for counties yet, but just adding the year to the table is not enough. • SbmeirowTalk • 14:05, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

If you add a new census table to city or county articles, please put the at the top of the "Demographics" section. Leave in the estimate params so they can be used in future years. The align field allows you to put it on the left or right side.
{{USCensusPop|1900=|1910=|1920=|1930=|1940=|1950=|1960=|1970=|1980=|1990=|2000=|2010=|estyear=|estimate=|align=|footnote=<center>[ U.S. Decennial Census]</center>}}
Thanks • SbmeirowTalk • 14:11, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

April 2011[edit]

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Eight-Nation Alliance. When removing content, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the content has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you believe that the reference is not a WP:RS may I suggest that you bring it up to the reliable source noticeboard, or discuss possible removal on the talk page of the article and gain a consensus for such removal. Also you can also provide reliable sources that support your claim in the edit summary "Removing incorrect statement: there was abundant reporting about atrocities by Western reporters." --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:08, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your “warning” but my objective was to remove from this article one obviously false, misleading, and scurrilous statement and two other statements which were not supported by the sources cited.

Let’s take up only the scurrilous – and important -- statement: Before my deletion the Wikipedia article read: :According to Mark Twain, in Renqiu County (now a county-level city), William Ament murdered 680 innocent farmers, following a "head for a head" slogan.[1]

It isn’t difficult at all to look up what Mark Twain really said on this subject. The following is the exact quote from his famous essay, “To the Person Sitting in Darkness.

““Mr. Ament declares that the compensation he has collected is moderate when compared with the amount secured by the Catholics, who demand, in addition to money, head for head. .They collect 500 taels for each murder of a Catholic. In the Wenchiu country, 680 Catholics were killed, and for this the European Catholics here demand 750,000 strings of cash and 680 heads.”

In other words, Mark Twain did not claim that William Ament “murdered 680 farmers.” The statement in the Wikipedia article is false. The consequences of leaving such a false statement on Wikipedia are substantial. Many other web pages copy and paste Wikipedia articles – and they do not update them. Thus, abuses and mistakes are perpetuated.

There is no excuse in my opinion for not correcting obvious – and often malicious – mistakes as quickly as possible on Wikipedia. Smallchief (talk) 01:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


  1. ^ 《义和团运动与近代中国社会》, Sichuan Science Press, page 288


There is discussion about ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ's editing on Boxer Rebellion here:ANI, maybe you would like to make some comments. Arilang talk 13:32, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Warning to Arilang1234- what you are doing constitutes-Wikipedia:Canvassing.ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Arilang1234 attempts to link Chinese high schools text books, black panthers, marxists, and vietnam war protestors to the Boxers[edit]

"The lead section now reads like a straight copy from standard Chinese high school text book, all these anti-imperialism rant" marxists, black panthers, vietnam era war protestors are apparently behind the insertion of "anti imperialism" into the article....ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ (talk) 19:21, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Name change[edit]

Would you care to weigh in on a proposed name change to Southeastern tribes? -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:08, 5 June 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi


Hello. I request you participate in Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/CWHDÜNGÁNÈ (talk) 00:32, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Boxer Rebellion[edit]

Thanks for the further clean up work -- the article is beginning to look better, but there's still a lot to do, so I hope you can keep it up. ch (talk) 00:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion for WikiProject United States to Support WikiProject Oklahoma and Tulsa[edit]

--Kumioko (talk) 23:46, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Lewis Hector Garrard[edit]

Good work on this article. Thanks for contributing it. Yworo (talk) 16:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I notice that you have[edit]

reverted my edit at Lewis Hector Garrard, insisting that Garrard wrote the "only" eyewitness account of the trials after the Taos Revolt. I had gone with "an eyewitness account" instead. Are you sure of that? Do you know what James Beckwourth wrote (dictated) on the subject? Is it covered in Kit Carson's autobiography? Was there an "official" US Army report? I went with "an" because it seems safe. If you are clear that it was the "only", then so be it, but I am looking. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 22:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

For example, this site [1] states, "The most complete account of the events of that fateful day comes from Lewis H. Garrard's book, Wah To Yah and The Taos Trail." 'The most complete account" is, in my opinion, quite a bit different from "the only account."
My reference (click on footnote) was the University of Oklahoma Press which said Garrard's was the "only eyewitness account." That may not be correct, but that's what my source said. Perhaps your suggestion that Garrards's is "the most complete account" is at present the better wording for the article -- although I might come back to "only eye-witness account" later if I research this subject more.
I don't like saying "an eyewitness account" because that implies there are other eye-witness accounts of the Taos trials that are equally good, reliable, and complete. I don't think there are, although something might be buried in the National Archives.
This issue of sourcing for Wikipedia is interesting. I have been in discussions with people who used what I considered unreliable sources in articles, but I was told (in essence) that sourcing is more important than accuracy. You may be familiar with the story of the fellow who learned from his Wikipedia article that he had died. When to tried to correct the article, he was told he couldn't because the article's source said he had died. Cheers. Smallchief (talk) 01:09, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikiproject Oklahoma[edit]

Oklahoma WP Logo.svg

This has been sent to you requesting that you respond to whether or not you are still an active member of WikiProject Oklahoma Please respond Here By following the instructions.

--Dcheagle 09:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Would be cool to create the article[edit]

I see that Ollokot is a redlink. It would be good if you-- or someone -- could create an article for him. I'm afraid I don't have the time, but I do think it's worth doing and would be glad to at least help with a bit of copyediting or something. Montanabw(talk) 19:56, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I've created an article for Ollokot and hopefully it will be approved and posted soon. Please feel free to improve and add to the article. Smallchief (talk) 20:19, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
I made a couple tweaks. Thanks. Montanabw(talk) 23:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation[edit]

Crystal Clear action edit add.png
Ollokot (Nez Perce leader), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
  • The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.
  • You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you are more than welcome to continue submitting work to Articles for Creation.
  • If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the Help desk or on the reviewer's talk page
  • If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Kevin Rutherford (talk) 22:14, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation[edit]

Crystal Clear action edit add.png
Battle of Cottonwood, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Writers Barnstar Hires.png The Writer's Barnstar
For fantastic work creating Battle of Cottonwood which I just cleared through AfC. But it could have been awarded for any of dozens of other excellent articles, I think. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:45, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
May I add that I took the liberty of adding a photo of Chief Joseph - I hope I have the caption right - to the article, it felt fitting.
I would also be happy to nominate the article for a DYK ("Did You Know?") if you'd like that, or of course you can nominate yourself. The DYK needs a "hook" of under 200 characters (not words), and the hook must be in the article and be attached directly to an inline citation (would need a bit of tweaking to do that), and within 5 days of the article's being created. Could also use the photo, seems best with DYKs. Something along the lines of 'Did you know ... that Chief Joseph (pictured) and his Nez Perce warriors brushed aside the US Army at the Battle of Cottonwood?' perhaps? Entirely up to you - let me know what you'd like. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:54, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your kind words (and the barnstar). perhaps the text (if not too long for a DYK) could be. "Chief Joseph (pictured) and his warriors defeated the U.S. army in 1877 at the Battle of Cottonwood as the Nez Perce began their 1,400 mile (2,300 km.) fighting retreat." I could add the "1,400 mile fighting retreat" language to the article and reference if if that would be better. Thanks again. Smallchief (talk) 17:27, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
That's 146 characters, which is fine for a DYK, so as soon as you've updated the wording and the citation, I'll propose it. The guys at DYK are expert at improving DYK hooks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Done. Smallchief (talk) 20:06, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Made the nomination at Template_talk:Did_you_know#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_January_12. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Verendrye Brother's Journey[edit]

Hi. I was one who wrote the original Verendrye journey. Sorry for the delay - I was off line. What do you think of moving the journey to a separate article? Since we are not sure that the Chevalier was Louis-Joseph it is over-confident to put the journey under his name. Separation would give Louis-Joseph a clean biography and place all the doubts in another place. Who does Smurr think the Chevalier was? Is the business about the Larmie Mountains Smurr's 'new theory'? If so it should be footnoted as such. Benjamin Trovato (talk) 03:40, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

The article might lend itself to being split into a Louis-Joseph article and a journey article. Perhaps other Wikipedians might have an opinion on this?
To answer your question, it seemed to me that the evidence tilted toward Louis-Joseph as the Chevalier -- but I might be persuaded otherwise as this wasn't my principal area of interest. I don't recall that Smurr addressed the issue of the Chevalier. Nor did I think the Smurr theory was as "new" as he claimed it was.
Re the Laramie mountains, in my first mention in the article of the Laramies I footnoted Smith, p. 108-109, 127. I don't have the Smith book right now to verify that footnote, but the Laramies are also mentioned by Smurr (p. 55) and, more prominently, by DeLand in 1914 (p. 242 and other pages). I'll add Deland as a footnote to my second mention of the Laramies and perhaps you might wish to verify Smith's mention of them -- if you have the book available.
There's enough speculation about the Verendrye route to write more extensively about the journey. My own semi-formed theory (which I didn't include in the article because it would be "original research" and verboten by Wikipedia) is that most of the Verendrye routes proposed by scholars are improbably short. Verendrye spent a year on the road. To propose, as many scholars have, that he never got beyond the Black Hills or the boundaries of the Dakotas requires that we believe that Verendrye and the Indians he met moved very slowly and in a very restricted area. To the contrary, it seems to me that Verendrye ranged widely, met many different Indian tribes, and viewed both the Laramies and the Big Horns (almost certainly the Big Horns). He was looking for the South Sea (the Pacific Ocean) and that implies that he would have gone as far west and south as possible in searching for it.
My semi-formed theory that Verendrye ranged widely is bolstered by the fact that Verendrye's "People of the Bow" had extensive knowledge of the Spanish in New Mexico. That points toward them being the Pawnee who lived in Nebraska but might have ranged as far west as Wyoming and Colorado. We know that the Pawnee had contacts with the Spanish at this time.
The powerful "Snakes" who were the enemies of the People of the Bow were almost certainly Shoshoni or Comanche -- the two peoples being nearly identical in language and culture in the early 18th century. The Comanche were known, at this time, to be attacking other Indian tribes, including the Pawnee, to capture slaves to sell to the Spanish in New Mexico. That makes the Comanche/Shoshoni a logical enemy for the Pawnee and other tribes to attack.
Best wishes. Smallchief (talk) 11:34, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Cottonwood[edit]

I've reviewed the DYK nomination for this article, and find it meets all of the criteria. I do have a question about one reference, which I have left at the nomination page. If you could address that, it would be most appreciated. Thanks, Resolute 01:15, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I've changed the reference to one that makes explicit mention of the Nez Perce flight to Canada. (Note however that the distance the Nez Perce traveled is estimated differently by different sources. I've said 1400 miles, but estimates vary from 1,300 to 1,700 miles.) Smallchief (talk) 02:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation[edit]

Crystal Clear action edit add.png
Fort Fizzle (Montana), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

A412 (Talk * C) 20:50, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Battle of Cottonwood[edit]

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Congrats on the DYK! Have you joined WikiProject Montana yet? You're invited! Montanabw(talk) 00:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Well done, I knew it was main page-worthy! Good work. Have fun with the Montana people. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation[edit]

Crystal Clear action edit add.png
Nez Perce in Yellowstone Park, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:11, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello SmallChief, I think you're really too expert to need to go through the alarmingly backlogged AfC process (dang, worse than a river jammed by them ole beavers and a herd of greenhorn lumberjacks. or whatever). Just one minor thing - I left a note on the talk page - the article would be nicer with a separate Bibliography so that all the inline citations refer to it, rather than one citation depending on an earlier one (which after all might get chopped about sometime). Thanks (and good writing as usual) Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I don't know how to go around the approval process. Can you tell me how? Your suggestion of adding a bibliography is a good one. I'll do that. Smallchief (talk) 14:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh, there's nothing to it. You just create a redlink like Nez Perce in Lower Manhattan in any article (could be your sandbox even), press Preview, and you'll see the page with the redlink. Click the redlink, and it asks if you want to create the new page. You can then paste in your text, or edit directly. Of course it's best to have the page pretty much in order to avoid the deletion wolves of Yellowstone eating the article before it's big enough to walk without its mommy... which you can do by starting it off as a child page in your userspace, with a redlink like /Nez Perce wherever on your user page. Then you can move the page when it's ready. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Nez Perce in Yellowstone Park[edit]

Smallchief, if you are willing to do a bit of work on the article (of which I will help) I'll help you get this one nominated for WP:DYK. Good job. --Mike Cline (talk) 14:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd be delighted to have your suggestions. I'll be adding a bibliography today after a breather. I just had a DYK a few days ago on another article I wrote on the Nez Perce, so another one so soon might not be approved. However, if you wish to nominate something from this article, I would be pleased. Smallchief (talk) 14:41, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Smallchief, no limit on DYKs, every article and editor on their own. This one will be approved. I've started adding some notes on the talk page. --Mike Cline (talk) 14:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Nez Perce in Yellowstone[edit]

Smallchief, I think I got most of what needed done to get Nez Perce in Yellowstone Park ready for DYK. I made some suggested hooks on the talk page. Which one do you prefer? Let me know and I'll get this article nominated for you. Again good job getting this one started. --Mike Cline (talk) 19:23, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

As I said on the talk page and repeat here in case you don't see it, any of the three formulations you proposed are fine with me. This Nez Perce stuff is really interesting. I'll move along now to the Battle of Canyon Creek which needs some work -- and I'm sure you could also improve it. Smallchief (talk) 20:55, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
DYK nomination is done: Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Nez_Perce_in_Yellowstone_Park. I'll keep an eye on Canyon Creek as you work on it. Thanks --Mike Cline (talk) 21:23, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of List of the most famous and infamous people of the American Old West for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of the most famous and infamous people of the American Old West is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of the most famous and infamous people of the American Old West until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:46, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Naming conventions[edit]

Hi Smallchief, I just saw how Johnpacklambert had unilaterally moved Taovaya Indians back in December. I wish I had seen that when it happened, since the undiscussed move of an ethnic article to an ambiguous term Taovaya was inappropriate. You don't have to rename "Foo Indians" articles, especially if no one who actually worked on the article demanded it. Wikipedia Ethnic Groups had dealt with the problem of naming articles frequently over the years – here is their guidelines for naming articles – and they concluded there was no consensus on naming ethnic group articles and several common patterns are used (Foo, Foos, Foo people, Ethnic Foos, etc.). Here's the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people)#Articles on peoples (ethnicities and tribes). The primary concern here was disambiguating ethnic group articles from language articles, which "Foo Indians" certainly does. I would just make sure that "Foos" and "Foo people" both redirect to "Foo Indians." "Indians" is a demonstrably acceptable term to Indians in the Aridoamerica region and throughout Latin America. Thanks for all of your edits–especially in an area not many others are covering. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:42, 2 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Thanks for your comments and insight. I prefer "Foo Indians" to "Foo people" because Foo Indians is more informative, tipping the reader off that we're talking about a people in the Americas. I think I'll change the article's name back to the original "Taovaya Indians." One reason for doing that is because, looking at the article's history, "Taovaya Indians" got about 3 times the readership that "Taovaya" does. And I do like readers! Smallchief (talk) 18:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, since Wikipedia won't let me change the name to "Taovaya Indians" (for reasons unclear to me) I'll stick to "Taovaya people" Fate, perhaps. Smallchief (talk) 18:28, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, it wouldn't let me move it either - too many edits and changed to the original. C'est la vie. -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:58, 2 March 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi
This is a long and frequently reoccurring discussion. However, I tend to be among those who favor "people-centered" terms. And there is a tribe-by-tribe issue: the word "Indian" is considered offensive by some Native people, whereas others find "Native American" to be too academic and condescending. I even know some folks who insist on being called "Native" and yet have run across stuff stating others find that word condescending. So short of documenting what people want you to call them (usually the best approach when possible) on a case by case basis, saying "people" makes the important point -- people of different ethnicities are still people. Montanabw(talk) 00:39, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


Battle of Whitestone Hill[edit]

First of all, excellent job with the expansion in the Operations Against the Sioux in North Dakota campaign series of articles. I have a question on Battle of Whitestone Hill#Battle (and one instance in Battle of Whitestone Hill#Aftermath). Should the instances of "Sibley" in those sections actually be "Sully"? I don't have access to the references to check… I hope you're planning to expand Battle of Killdeer Mountain as well. Also, I saw your "Help!" edit summary at Salt Plains National Wildlife Refuge last week – I hope that my change was in line with what you were envisioning. Thanks. Mojoworker (talk) 16:44, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I made a mistake of saying "Sibley" when I meant "Sully" on several occasions. I think those errors have been corrected. Thanks for the compliments. I just finished a rewrite of the Battle of Killdeer Mountain. I'm sure the article could still use some sharp editing skills. Smallchief (talk) 11:58, 12 April 2012 (UTC)


If you want any articles, just give the details and I'll send them to you. Best, Fanzine999 (talk) 22:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I may take you up on that. I never know what I will research next. Cheers. Smallchief (talk) 23:55, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

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Assessing WP Indigenous peoples of North America articles[edit]

Hello, Smallchief-- I've been working on assessment with DThomsen8, and want to say thanks for all your contributions! I realize that Fetterman Fight is probably a B or better; however, I'm just doing Stub/Start/C class assessments for now, in order to keep moving through the unrated items. (Considered asking you to try your hand at some B-class assessments, but I don't want to distract you from creating and improving articles, which is more important ...) Djembayz (talk) 00:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

  • Thanks. I noticed you had edited and evaluated several articles I worked on. It's a pleasure to see such professionalism. Smallchief 00:46, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar Awarded![edit]

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Awarded to content creator Smallchief in recognition of an accomplished body of work that, on examination, I find both impressive and intimidating. On behalf of those who benefit from your efforts in the past, present and future, I salute you as a notable Wikipedian! Jusdafax 19:44, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. The recognition is much appreciated. Smallchief 03:23, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
My pleasure. I find very little to dislike in your work. I started with Fetterman Fight and moved on from there. I have visited the site in Wyoming, by the way, and think the description of the actions to be accurate and comprehensive. Don't be too discouraged at the current lack of recognition... as the years go by, it will dawn on editors how much quality material you have written here. Jusdafax 03:50, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

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Jane Elliot's account of the Battle of Dagu Forts[edit]

Hi Smallchief-- I see that you are doing some editing at Battle of Dagu Forts. I posted a question on the Talk Page, but will ask you directly, just in case: Jane E. Elliott, Some Did It for Civilisation, Some Did It for Their Country : A Revised View of the Boxer War (Hong Kong: The Chinese University Press, 2002) makes the argument that western armies at the time and western historians have seriously neglected the Battle of the Dagu Forts, some even denying that it even took place. Would you as someone more knowledgable like to evaluate this claim and perhaps work it into this article? The Google book is at Jane Elliot Some Did it For Civilisation Cheers in any case ch (talk) 03:38, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, CH. Looking at your credentials on China, they're more impressive than mine. However, I have been a long time collector of material on the Boxer Rebellion, and I'm familiar with Elliot's book -- although it's been several years since I looked at it. As I recall, she was very laudatory about the Chinese performance at the Battle of the Dagu Forts. And looking at the Boxer Rebellion article, I see that the battle gets no mention (or at least I didn't find a mention of it) but it should. Because, if I recall correctly, it was the attack on the Dagu Forts that definitively made up the Dowager's mind to support the Boxers. I'll refresh my memory and add a sentence or two in the Boxer Rebellion article regarding the Battle of the Dagu Forts -- or if you wish, you can do it. Smallchief
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Wow, thanks, Djembayz. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a Wikipedia gift. I'm proud to be a wikipedian. I like to write and I decided a couple of years ago that I get more gratification -- and, importantly, more readership -- by writing on Wikipedia than by writing articles and books. I appreciate the recognition -- and I hope I get a T-shirt, cause I love T-shirts with a message that tells who you are, but doesn't make people angry.Smallchief

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May 2013[edit]

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Proposed merger: Rush Creek Battlefield into Battle of Rush Creek[edit]

It's been proposed that the article Rush Creek Battlefield be merged into the article Battle of Rush Creek, which you created. If you're interested in commenting on this, the discussion is at Talk:Battle of Rush Creek#Merger proposal. Ammodramus (talk) 12:41, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

July 2013[edit]

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Gareth Porter may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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  • ].<ref>[ Transcript]</ref> Author [[William Shawcross commented that Porter's and his co-author's "apparent faith in Khmer Rouge

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Bob McDonnell[edit]

Since you didn't give a rational for reverting my edit, I replaced the previous info. Thanks, B-watchmework (talk) 22:23, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

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Thanks for all the work you've put in writing Plains Indian and Aridoamerica cultural articles! Uyvsdi (talk) 16:12, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Image placement[edit]

Hi Smallchief. Just FYI, images are not supposed to be placed opposite other images or infoboxes in such a way that they squeeze the text between them or indent headings. See various pages MOS:IMAGES, WP:IUP. Yworo (talk) 17:16, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Image size[edit]

From WP:IMGSIZE: "In general, do not define the size of an image unless there is a good reason to do so: some users have small screens or need to configure their systems to display large text; "forced" large thumbnails can leave little width for text, making reading difficult. In addition, forcing a "larger" image size at say 260px will actually make it smaller for those with a larger size set as preference unless you use upright with a scaling factor, so the use of upright is preferred wherever sensible."

Generally, we only increase the size of the lead image, or images with detail such as text or maps. Manually sizing the image prevents the Wikipedia editor from setting their own default image size in their preferences, and harms the ability for the visually-disabled to use Wikipedia. Thanks. Yworo (talk) 20:48, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Frankly, I think you're pettifogging. Who is the collective "we" you're citing? I am also a member of Wikipedia entitled to utilize some judgement as to the sizing and placement of photographs and the organization of articles. I've done it hundreds of times and I've never had a complaint before, so you are unique in that respect. I suggest you take this issue to higher authority, whoever or whatever that may be. In the meantime, I'm going to focus my time and effort on trying to produce accurate, authoritative, and interesting articles for wikipedia, which I thought was the purpose of this activity. Smallchief (talk 21:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm not. I'm visually disabled and have visually disabled friends. I have been correcting this issue for years and most editors get it and stop doing things that make Wikipedia harder to use for the visually disabled. Jerk. Yworo (talk) 22:05, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

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Vietnamese boat people[edit]

The main Vietnam war article says over 3 million "boat people" fled and 1.9 million were resettled. The sources seem more credible than the unsourced and contradictory numbers provided in Vietnamese boat people. Do you have a source for the 800,000 figure you added to the lead?TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 02:04, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

  • I'll check it out and get back to you. Smallchief (talk 19:17, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
    • Ok,I've worked my way through the Vietam War article and the Vietnamese Boat People article. (By the way, I havent finished working on the latter sections of the present unsourced and unreliable boat people article yet). The Vietnam war article doesent say that 3.0 million "boat people" fled. It says that "over 3 million Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians fled, many of whom were Boat people." So, there's no obvious inconsistency there with giving the numbers of boat people at 800,000.
    • "Boat People" is often used in the generic sense to refer to all the Vietnamese who were resettled worldwide after 1975. However, the text of the Vietnamese Boat People article which I am in the process of revising refers only to those Vietnamese who left Vietnam by boat -- not Cambodians, Laotians, or the 40,000 or so Vietnamese who fled overland to Thailand. Nor does the term Boat People apply to the 135,000 Vietnamese who were evacuated during the Fall of Saigon in 1975. Nor does the term boat people apply to the nearly 500,000 who left Vietnam to travel directly to the US after 1979 under the Orderly Departure Program. Nor does the term boat people refer to the 250,000 Vietnamese who fled overland to China. In other words, the term "Vietnamese boat people" in this article applies only those Vietnamese who left Vietnam by boat and turned up on the shores of other Southeast Asian countries or Hong Kong. That point needs clarifying in the article -- which I will endeavor to do.
    • My source for statistics used in the Vietnamese Boat People article is the UNHCR's report: "The State of the World's Refugees: 50 Years of Humanitarian Action" This is the most complete and credible source for international statistics concerning the "boat people" as the term is used in the restrictive sense I have explained above.
    • I'll hopefully clear up the statistical maze as I work through the Vietnamese Boat People article. I think, perhaps, that a mention is needed in the lead to the Vietnamese Boat People article that the term "boat people" is often loosely applied to all Vietnamese who ended up resettled in the US and elsewhere -- but that this article is only about those Vietnamese who left Vietnam by boat. Smallchief (talk 20:08, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Thinking about it, it might be better to change the title of the article "Vietnamese Boat People" to "Vietnamese Refugees" and cover the whole spectrum of the subject. "Vietnamese Boat People" could be redirected to "Vietnamese Refugees" Smallchief (talk 20:15, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Keep up the good work, then.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 20:32, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Thomas Moonlight[edit]


I was just reading the Indian Wars section of the Thomas Moonlight article, and I noticed some discrepancies between that information and what I just read yesterday in "Crazy Horse and Custer: The Parallel Lives of Two American Warriors" by Stephen E. Ambrose. According to the author, Moonlight was actually out trying to fight Indians in late May 1865 (he left Fort Laramie, along with most of his cavalry, because he was trying to respond to attacks by the Cheyenne and some Sioux on the Oregon Trail around that time). He didn't end up finding any Indians, although he marched all the way to the Wind River. While he was gone, Two Face and Blackfoot brought Mrs. Eubanks to Fort Laramie as a sign of peace. She claimed she had been raped continuously by the Cheyenne, then bought by Blackfoot (who raped her) who then sold her to Two Face (who of course also raped her). The same morning of the day they brought her to the fort, she claimed that a "whole horde of Sioux" raped her. The (drunk) temporary commander at Fort Laramie immediately ordered Two Face and Blackfoot to be hanged with iron balls attached to their legs. A soldier guarded the bodies (so they couldn't be taken down) until the legs finally rotted enough that the iron balls caused them to fall off.

I just paraphrased what Ambrose wrote. See pgs 155--156 for the details.

I'm no historian, but I notice a few differences. One is that Moonlight wasn't around when Two Face and Blackfoot were hanged. Another is the spelling of Eubanks, and that, from the sounds of her "testimony", she actually wanted to the Indians to be hanged. I just wanted to call this to your attention, in case you want to edit the section. Thanks

Michael Scott Bell (talk) 10:22, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

  • Thanks. I'll see if I can find my copy of Ambrose and check what he says against the present text. I recall when I was writing this that the stories of this incident were incompatible. I'll see if I can straighten out the text, or at least note that there is disagreement among sources. Smallchief (talk 11:12, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Chomsky / Cambodia[edit]

I have no experience editing Wiki so rather than try I thought I would approach you as you seem to be the author of the content in question. Regarding Chomsky's opinion that Ponchaud's Cambodia: Year Zero was "'worth reading' but unreliable", this seems intentionally deceitful on your part. Chomsky said the book was "serious and worth reading", true. But as far as him saying it was unreliable Chomsky noted multiple inaccuracies in the book which Ponchaud corrected for the American publication. His opinion was it was serious and worth reading. That it was unreliable is fact since corrections were made when inaccuracies were pointed out by Chomsky.

Also you use the quote "great care" from Chomsky and Herman's book regarding Ponchaud's refugee sources. They were simply reiterating the very same point Ponchaud made in the book and thus this quote seems rather pointless, unless your sole intention is to smear Chomsky by creating a false impression though selective, out of context quoting.

Hensah 17:17, 24 March 2014 (EST)

You've posted Chomsky's rebuttal to an article criticizing him. You might want to read a counter-rebuttal to Chomsky by Sophal Ear, a Cambodian-American scholar who has published extensively on the subject of the academic community and the Cambodian genocide.

You might be interested in hearing what Ponchaud had to say about Chomsky:
"Mr. Chomsky was of the opinion that Jean Lacouture had substantially distorted the evidence I had offered, and, considering my book to be 'serious and worth reading, as distinct from much of the commentary it has elicited,' he wrote me a personal letter on October 19, 1977, in which he drew my attention to the way it was being misused by antirevolutionary propagandists. He has made it my duty to 'stem the flood of lies' about Cambodia -- particularly, according to him, those propagated by Anthony Paul and John Barron in 'Murder of a Gentle Land.'"
In other words, if I read that correctly, Chomsky was telling Ponchaud to toe the ideological line, e.g. denial of the Cambodian genocide. Barron and Paul's book, by the way, was based on interviews with hundreds of Cambodian refugees and proved to be spot-on.
You are welcome to find a quote from Chomsky about Ponchaud which you believe is more representative of Chomsky's opinion of the book -- but let's not lose track of the important fact. Ponchaud, a man of the Left who initially welcomed the Khmer Rouge, was correct in his analysis of the character of the KR -- and Chomsky and the other doubters, deniers, nay-sayers, were wrong. Smallchief (talk 11:44, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

moved page[edit]

From User Smallchief/Sandbox 7 (in article space) to User:Smallchief/Sandbox 7. Seemed like the thing to do.TheLongTone (talk) 13:53, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Good catch[edit]

Some random IP changed the figure used in Vietnam War casualties.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 09:16, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Your edit warring[edit]

Hi, Smallchief. I'm on my way to the edit-warring noticeboard to report your latest edits at Gareth Porter, but I would rather not. Is there any reason why I should not? You just recently implemented a blind revert without addressing a single issue raised with your edits on the Talk page. Not good editing form at all. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 21:24, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I would note that it was you who deleted material that was verifiable with good references and had been in the article for months or years without dispute. What you replaced it with was material favorable to Porter which was misleading and, in fact, inaccurate in some cases. My objective is to write and edit good and accurate articles -- not to promote a particular prejudice or point of view. Porter was wrong in the evidence he cited to justify his support and approval of the Khmer Rouge. He has admitted that himself. To whitewash his previous opinions of the Khmer Rouge, as you wish to do, would be contrary to truth and a disservice to Wikipedia. Porter is responsible for what he said publicly and in print.
The fact that Porter has recanted his previous views is important, admirable, and worthy of being included in the article. Why have you reverted that? Smallchief (talk 22:36, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for responding on the article Talk page; I've addressed the issues you've raised there.
I have not removed any properly referenced and accurately conveyed material, and I'm sure you well know that just because content survives "in the article for months or years", that is no guarantee that it is not in violation of Wikipedia policies. I'm glad to hear that it is not your intent to promote a particular prejudice or point of view, at least we are on the same page to that point. However, when you say "To whitewash his previous opinions of the Khmer Rouge, as you wish to do...", now you are just being nasty and untruthful, and I'll have to ask you to stop. Xenophrenic (talk) 01:44, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

FULRO in Vietnam war[edit]

FULRO fought against both North and South Vietnamese forces during the war, and were armed and trained by the China, Cambodia, and America. They really don't belong on the same side as either North or South Vietnam but when I open a third column for them on the article, someone keeps on deleting it. For some reason they are not even mentioned in the article.Rajmaan (talk) 04:33, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library: New Account Coordinators Needed[edit]

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Stray conversation[edit]

[[]]== Do you agree with these changes? == If you agree with them please add them or say you agree with them so I can add them. (talk) 02:07, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Delete the phrase "Indigenous languages of the Americas|linguistic factors" and I, given my limited knowledge of DNA, can agree -- although I believe the section would be more comprehensible and interesting if you referred to the origin and location of the "24,000 year old sample" which I would assume is the Mal'ta Buret people of Siberia. Others might appreciate knowing where this sample came from and understanding that the Mal'ta Buret connection might account for the "Caucasian" features of some early American Indians -- such as Kennewick man. The Mal'ta Buret connection, if in fact it is verified by additional research, may also pretty much put the much-ballyhooed Solutrean hypothesis in its grave.

Old data

Scientific evidence links indigenous Americans to Asian peoples, specifically eastern Siberian populations. Indigenous peoples of the Americas have been linked to North Asian populations by linguistic factors, the distribution of blood types, and in genetic composition as reflected by molecular data, such as DNA.[1]

New Data

The quoted text below is an exact quote from Raghavan et al .On a wide scale ''14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from'' a population basal to modern day western Eurasians. And the ''western Eurasian genetic signatures in modern-day Native Americans derive not only from post-Columbian admixture, as commonly thought, but also from a mixed ancestry of the First Americans''. A 24,000 year old sample showed a line (haplogroup R* y-dna desendend of QR y-dna ) that ''is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and near the root of most Native American lineages''[2] Indigenous peoples of the Americas have been linked to North Asian populations by linguistic factors, the distribution of blood types, and in genetic composition as reflected by molecular data, such as DNA. [1] (talk) 02:07, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Regarding linguistic links between North Asian and North American indigenous peoples I would say that Dene-Yeniseian is in fact accepted by a sizeable minority by now. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:43, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
You may be correct, it's perhaps the best evidence we have of a link. But see my latest comments on the article talk page. Smallchief (talk


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November 2014[edit]

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A barnstar for you![edit]

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Thank you for creating El Cielo Biosphere and participating in WikiProject Mexico. Your work is greatly appreciated. You should nominate it for DYK! ComputerJA () 00:14, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Kit Carson[edit]

You weren't kidding about that article going downhill. I looked at it briefly during the infobox photo discussion, but didn't remember it being this bad. Poor sourcing, weak sentence's a mess. Intothatdarkness 21:59, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

February 2015[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm CaroleHenson. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Dismal River culture, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. CaroleHenson (talk) 23:39, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the additions to the Dismal River culture article. Two things worth considering are: 1) if you're going to add content into cited verbiage, it's good to either verify that information is in the source or add citation information or pages for the new content (I took care of your additions this time) and 2) it would be good to have citations for the uncited content. I added two cn tags - do you know where the uncited content came from? It would be nice to keep it if you've got a source (i.e., otherwise it could be considered original research and need to be removed). Thanks again! It's nice to see the article grow!--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

A new reference tool[edit]

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Adam Matthew account check-in[edit]

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Question for Smallchief[edit]

Hello, Smallchief. I'm getting in touch in hopes you can direct me somewhere concerning the Wiki article about Yvette Pierpaoli. She was a friend of my wife's 30 years ago in Thailand during the refugee crisis there. In her Wiki article, there's a footnote about an unpublished English translation of her memoir. If I'm reading the history correctly, you added that footnote. So, I'm wondering if you might be able to point me somewhere to find that English translation. Any help you could provide would be much appreciated! Thanks. Writer128 (talk) 18:20, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Writer. I'll have to consult the person who had this book translated to see if I can get you a copy. He had some hopes of having it published, so I don't know whether he will release a copy. Meanwhile, the French original of the book used to be available, and maybe still is, on Amazon. I'll get back to you on this. Smallchief (talk 18:50, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks very much for your help, Smallchief. And sorry for the late acknowledgment--just saw your reply now. We'll have a look on Amazon, but we're not very good at French. Writer128 (talk) 09:52, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello again, Smallchief. Believe it or not, I only just now saw your message of last October offering the English translation of the Pierpaoli book. If you're still willing and able, I'd love to see it, and will abide by the copyright restrictions--no commercial use or reproduction. It will be just to read ourselves and remember her by. My email address is Again, thank you for your reply and willingness to provide it. Writer128 (talk) 16:08, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to join MILHIST[edit]

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Solutrean hypothesis[edit]

Hard to argue with someone who doesn't think you can have peer reviewed evidence for this. You probably didn't notice, but he outed another editor on my talk page (now oversighted). That was the 3rd time he outed the same editor, with blocks each time (including I see this time). Thanks for your edits. I just found "On The Inferred Age And Origin Of Lithic Bi-Points From The Eastern Seaboard And Their Relevance To The Pleistocene Peopling Of North America"[2]:

"After several years of multidisciplinary examination, it is now clear that the proposal that Solutrean hunter-gatherers crossed the Atlantic Ocean during the Pleistocene (Stanford and Bradley 2012; see also Bradley and Stanford 2004, 2006; Collins 2012; Stanford and Bradley 2000) is not currently supported in any scientific field (Bamforth 2013; Dulik et al. 2012; Eren et al. 2013, 2014; Eriksson et al. 2012; Fiedel 2012; Goebel et al. 2008; Haynes 2013; Kashani et al. 2012; Lepper 2013a, 2013b; Morrow 2014; O’Brien et al. 2014a, 2014b; O’Rourke and Raff 2010; Raff and Bolnick 2014; Raghavan 2013; Rasmussen et al. 2014; Shott 2005a, 2005b; Straus 2000; Straus et al. 2005; Surovell 2014; Westley and Dix 2008; Whittaker 2013)".

And this looks like a brilliant source for several articles. Doug Weller talk 14:29, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

"first postulate" - you wrote "The Solutrean Hypothesis was first postulated when, in 1974, a stone tool resembling Solutrean stone tools was" but Bradley and Stanford's first book was published in 1998, and the first sentence of the lead says 1998. Doug Weller talk 15:03, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
To be clearer, this sentence should possibly read "The Solutrean Hypothesis was first postulated in 1998 based in part upon the 1970 discovery of a stone tool resembling Solutrean stone tools uncovered by a scallop dredge off the east coast of Virginia in an area that would have been been dry land prior to the rising sea levels of the Pleistocene Epoch." (The date of this discovery depending upon the sources is either 1970 or 1974, so take your pick.) Smallchief (talk 15:29, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Nevermind, I see you rephrased this point better than I had done. Thanks. Smallchief (talk 15:31, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Smallchief (talk 15:20, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

About the stats[edit]

About the stats (completely out of order), you are entirely right. That's a shame. And a real shame for Wikipedia ! Best regards. -- (talk) 16:30, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Sechin Alto[edit]

Dear Smallchief, Sechin Alto currently redirects to Cerro Sechin, but it's actually a separate site in the area. Thus, es:Sechín Alto is more accurate. But of course it's better to create a separate en article for this site. Regards, Eio-cos (talk) 17:22, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

  • Yes, I see what you're about. Sechin Alto needs a separate article in English -- and Serro Cechin needs to be revised. Sorry for the revert. Smallchief (talk 21:06, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
    • Done already! Article Sechin Alto created (translated from es). Serro Cechin hasn't been revised yet. Eio-cos (talk) 05:45, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Wagon Box Fight[edit]

Dear Smallchief, you reverted my edits to the Wagon Box Fight today for being unreferenced POV. I did reference them: Hyde, Red Cloud's Folks, p. 159 f. It is a quote from a historian who actually talked to Indian participants of the fight (other than ppl. like WW II author Stephen Ambrose...) which contradicts and thus balances the interpretation that the wagon Box Fight would have been a lopsided US victory. I want to take your deletion of my work as an opportunity to talk this over how to best present this important other interpretation. I believe that the decolonization of NA history must be reflected in Wikipedia articles. Instead of blocking such efforts, do you have an idea how to do it in a good way here? Best regards,

Lookoo (talk) 22:11, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Here are my specific problems with your edits. In your first edit, you inserted "white settler" history instead of the more neutral term of historians. It wasn't white settlers who wrote histories used in this article. It was historians, most of them in the present day.
Your second edit, in the next para is "white historians". The implication is that "Indian historians" wrote different and inaccurate accounts -- and therefore you should mention what those different accounts say and reference them. I also object to the term "white," as if a "white historian" cannot attempt to be objective. Also, calling somebody's book "stupid" is a no-no.
Most of the next two paragraphs are unreferenced or repetitive. Doubts of claims of heavy Indian casualties had already been expressed in the article-- and what you put in here (unreferenced) about casualties repeats or contradicts what is written elsewhere in the article -- The point that most early accounts of the battle had vastly overestimated Indian casualties has already been made.
Your last paragraph quotes George Hyde. I'm familiar with Hyde and an admirer of his -- but he was opinionated and his opinion was not always right. It seems to me that this quote trivializes the war by making it appear that the Indians were only fighting because it was fun. I don't believe that. The war was a deadly serious business to them -- as witnessed by their persistence and near daily attacks on the soldiers in their country. In other words, in attempting to slant this article more toward the Indian side of the story, I think you have done the reverse with this quote -- which is only an opinion by a "white historian" -- the ilk of which you deride elsewhere.
I don't disagree with your apparent intention of trying to focus this article more on the Indian side of the story, but I think the article is already balanced. There's room for disagreement on that point. 150 years on, I think the Indians get a fair shake in the article as now written -- but there are always other points of view which may merit mention, providing that the sources are authoritative and credible.
Cheers. And keep on editing. Smallchief (talk 10:18, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply! You have some very good points here!
Coming back to the "folklore" part - the wagon box fight has been celebrated by this folklore as you know, and I still think it's reasonable to make the point that we're not talking about a universal folkore here but a decidedly partisan one - white settler folkore. When I inserted "white settler", I meant it to qualify the very next word in the text - "folklore". There is certainly also a native folkore take on this episode, and it's almost certainly quite different.
I agree with your deletion of the following "white historian" insertion. I certainly didn't infer though that Indian historians would have been wrong in coming to different conclusions.
The next two paragraphs aren't unreferenced as they are a block quote from Hyde's book, source given right there. I put them into inverted commas and added the source.
Hyde may have been a white historian, but he was the only one mentioned here who interviewed Indian participants, and his points that the Indians didn't consider this a defeat at all as they concluded that they had inflicted more fatalities than they had suffered and captured a great deal of lifestock is crucial in my view. As a little aside, as for Hyde calling Dodge's book "stupid" in passing, yes, that's opiniated and rude - but in fact very much justified, I don't want to waste your time going into specifics but it's in large part a racist, derisive piece of fantasy (e.g. all young Cheyennes do the Sun Dance as a rite of passage (nope), those who pass it all become Dog Soldiers (nope), those few that fail become Berdaches (nope), and it just goes on like this). I just think that if we delete that one about the Indians not considering it a defeat at all, isn't that indeed unbalanced?. How about reinserting the first paragraph of the Hyde quote and leaving the second one deleted?
Lookoo (talk) 00:11, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't have time now to respond to you in detail. Obviously you are aware that many of the accounts of the battle are exaggerated -- so I leave it to you to take my comments into account in revising the article. I would probably call the results of the battle "inconclusive" as neither side seemed to win much of anything, although the war of attrition was being won by the Indians. Smallchief (talk 22:11, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Weaving a fine thread.[edit]

This page is a nightmare to maintain. I appreciate you joining in. I am happy to discuss any aspect but where to start. The article is about weaving which is now all about air-jet and water jet looms which we have not touched yet. We have sections to add on weaving patterns and artificial fibres! We have input from the hobby sector and have to maintain a balanced narrative that will satisfy the ´average' reader. In a sense we are a top level article that will direct the reader to other more detailed articles

In 2011 and 2014 we floated sections that were becoming over dominant etc., which I suggest is the way forward. In preparing for that I rarely delete- but comment out text so it can be transferred easily. I do zap bad formattting and out of context photos. I hope you see what I am doing. At the moment I am trying to maintain the integrity of the history section from Sumerians to recent post shuttle looms- and will then attempt a prècis to shorten it- I am concerned that the Andean civilisation do need a higher profile (from the cultural POV) but can't think of the best way to do this. Suggestions?

I will finish my edit shortly then we can discuss individual aspects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClemRutter (talkcontribs) 10:12, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

I'll withhold judgement briefly -- but I don't in general favor deleting material unless the subject is adequately covered in another article. This article is unbalanced. More attention in your formulation is given to Huguenot weavers in England in the 18th century than is given the whole 11,000 year history of weaving in the Americas, especially the Andean civilizations in which weaving was a major art form.Smallchief (talk 10:22, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Your edit[edit]

Hi there. I think you added this to the wrong county. McDowell County is right down there though. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:02, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. The information in the article was correct, but I said Harlan instead of McDowell country; and made the same mistake in the footnote was mistaken. I fixed it. Smallchief (talk 01:00, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Yet despite it's poverty, McDowell County is breathtakingly beautiful. Have a look at the photos I added to Iaeger, West Virginia and to Davy, West Virginia. I added an edit a while back to Cleveland, Mississippi, where Bobby Kennedy compared the poverty in the Delta to West Virginia's. Yet even in Leflore County, Mississippi, which has the highest level of child poverty in the United States, there is unbelievable beauty. I took this photo there. All the best. Magnolia677 (talk) 02:53, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Beautiful photos. Smallchief (talk 09:55, 17 October 2016 (UTC)