User talk:Space and Aviation Firsts
Welcome[edit]
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Some tips: Don't include code such as "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=North_American_X-15&action=edit#" in your edits; also please observe proper capitalization rules. References don't get typed at the top of the article, and be careful to observe <ref> </ref> text pairs. Use the "Show preview" button to see how your edit will look before pressing the "Save page" button. JustinTime55 (talk) 15:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Mike Machat changes[edit]
Hi, I did some work on the article by copying it to my sandbox. You can see the changes there. I found it difficult to work through your comments at Talk:Mike Machat so I took a different approach: I looked for sources on my own, and rewrote the article based on those independent sources, putting it more in Wikipedia style. I did not include your suggestions for "Historic Events in Aviation History depicted in Machat's Art"; unless independent source makes note of them, it's original research and not encyclopedic (more résumé-style content). I shortened the lead, which should only summarize the main article. I did not include details from your suggestions which I could not find sources for, such as specific aircraft he flew, claims like "first Air Force Artist to fly in the Rockwell B-1B Lancer and Grumman F-14 Tomcat", and specific dates. Anyway, take a look at the sandbox version, and let me know if there's anything important I overlooked or if I got anything wrong. I won't replace the current article with this one until I hear from you. Schazjmd (talk) 17:31, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
- Also, you can just reply here with any comments on the revised article. I'll watch this page. Schazjmd (talk) 18:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello Sir
My apologies I think I am getting lost on where to reply.
Thank you for your updates.....
I think where I am having misunderstandings is because "I don't know what constitutes proof to Wikipedia." For instance related to Murals and Historic USAF Art
1] A number of the References I used are listed in the current Wiki entry
2] For the MURALs ALL of them are listed by the Museum themselves both written and on their internet sites which I understand is the same type of reference material Keith Ferris used AND
3] For the Signed Historical Art by the USAF PILOTS involved in the Historical Events - Mike Machat produced the Art I listed in the 1990s - when he was still serving with the USAF
4] On the latter point I am an avid Art Collector of Mike Machat / Alan Bean and Keith Ferris
Would photographs of the "Certificate of Authenticity" provided with each Art Piece I mentioned constitute PROOF?
That's all I can think of - Mike Machat has an open website would it assist to have that link?
Thanks you again for your patience
My kind regards Mike Pemberton
The current References I refer to:
"Painting Aviation's Legends: The Art of Mike Machat". www.amazon.com. Retrieved 2020-07-06. "Captured Lightning : Airport Mural Depicts Storied P-38 Fighter Plane". Los Angeles Times. March 9, 1996. "February 17, 1986 by Mike Machat". National Air and Space Museum. "New VISTA paint scheme gets artist's approval". Air Force Materiel Command. "Aviation Art of Mike Machat". www.aviationarthangar.com. "Museum of Flying, Santa Monica, CA". Museum of Flying. December 6, 2014. Goodman, Jeff (March 12, 2015). "Collaboration takes flight at Airport ArtWalk". Santa Monica Daily Press.
- This is the correct place to reply, thank you.The article already includes Painting Aviation's Legends, the P-38 mural, February 17, 1986, and the 2014 mural. The VISTA paint scheme is rather trivial. The ArtWalk article is a brief mention, not worth including.Please keep in mind that what Wikipedia wants to document is what independent published sources have said about the subject. With that in mind, are there any specific changes you think need to be made to the rewritten version? Schazjmd (talk) 14:15, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello Sir
Yours looks fantastic.
I found and added a few more you tube links below that I found. Please would you mind one last check if they adjust your listing.
BIOGRAPHY paragraph as written:
Machat grew up in Long Island, New York. He would visit New York area airports and draw airplanes as a kid.[citation needed]
He graduated from Pratt Institute then joined the United States Air Force. Machat relocated to Los Angeles, California, where he attended California State University, Long Beach, Machat soon began working at the Douglas Aircraft Company.[citation needed]
In 1984, Machat established an arts studio. He was later elected as president of the American Society of Aviation Artists and was made a member of the Society of Illustrators, both of New York and of Los Angeles.[16]
BIOGRAPHY paragraph CORRECTED:
Machat grew up in Long Island, New York. He would visit New York area airports and draw airplanes as a kid.[citation needed] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLDsZyhZs0Q
He completed Foundation Year studies at Pratt Institute before joining the United States Air Force in 1967. After his service, Machat relocated to Los Angeles, California, where he graduated from California State University, Long Beach, and was hired as an artist by the Douglas Aircraft Company.[citation needed] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_WRyNlwxbg
In 1984, Machat established his own aviation art studio. He was later elected FIRST president of the American Society of Aviation Artists and was made a member of the Society of Illustrators, both of New York and of Los Angeles.[16]
Thanks a million!
PS I never forgot growing up in the UK [Australia since 1974] visiting US Bases AFB Weathersfield and AFB Lakenheath toplay Basket Ball against the AFB Teams - kind regards Mike Pemberton Space and Aviation Firsts (talk) 06:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Space and Aviation Firsts, I don't think you're looking at the correct article, because you're pasting content that isn't there. I already provided the citations needed for those paragraphs. Please look at User:Schazjmd/sandbox2 and let me know if it needs any corrections. Schazjmd (talk) 12:58, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello Sir
I saw Sandbox 2 and it looks terrific - it is such a good job - thank you for providing the structure/updates and the corrections to history.
I'll look for it being published....
kind regards Mike Pemberton
- Thanks, Mike! Feel free to let me know on my talk page if anything comes up in the future that should be added to the article. Cheers! Schazjmd (talk) 22:11, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello Sir
I don't know why I didn't think of it before but I wrote to Machat and asked him directly for any amendments. He replied with the following 'word for word' requested amendments - his were marked in red in the email which I can't duplicate here. If you would like me to resend with "xxxx" around the amendments I can.
As an example the word "in" is an 'addition' in this sentence following and there is a highlighted deletion.
he would eventually fly in more than 200 aircraft, including with the U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School, the Blue Angels, and NASA.[1] (DELETE: "and
is jet-qualified.")[4]
Here are his requested amendment/corrections. [I promise you this is it. I just hadn't thought to do this prior.]
Biography[edit]
Machat grew up in Long Island, New York. He would visit New York airports and draw airplanes as a kid.[2] Machat began flying at age 16,[1] exchanging his drawings and paintings for flying lessons.[3] Although poor eyesight prevented Machat from commercial flying,[2] he would eventually fly in more than 200 aircraft, including with the U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School, the Blue Angels, and NASA.[1] (DELETE: "and is jet-qualified.")[4]
He attended Pratt Institute, then joined the United States Air Force. Machat relocated to Los Angeles, California, where he graduated California State University, Long Beach. Machat then began working at the Douglas Aircraft Company[2] as a Staff Artist and Corporate Representative.[5]
In 1984, Machat established his own aviation art studio. He was later elected as the first president of the American Society of Aviation Artists and was made a member of the Society of Illustrators, both of New York and of Los Angeles.[6]
Art[edit] Machat created a 6 by 21 feet (1.8 m × 6.4 m) mural of the P-38 for the Burbank Airport in 1996.[3] One of Machat's drawings hangs on a wall at Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California.[7] Another, titled February 17, 1986, is owned by the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum.[8] Machat has also painted for the U.S. Air Force,[9] where he once served on active duty. Machat painted a 10 by 20 feet (3.0 m × 6.1 m) mural titled The Golden Age of Flight for the Air Force Flight Test Center Museum.[10] In 2012, Machat was selected to restore a painting by Douglas Ettridge of an Lockheed NF-104A at the Air Force Test Pilot School.[1]
Machat was awarded the 11th Annual Combs Gates Award by the National Aviation Hall of Fame in 2013 for his mural, Fly DOUGLAS!.[11] In 2014, Machat completed a 10 by 20 feet (3.0 m × 6.1 m) mural, Flying Navy, for the Museum of Flying in Santa Monica, CA.[12]
The Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum (District of Columbia), National Soaring Museum (Elmira, NY), and the National Museum of Naval Aviation (Pensacola, FL) have Machat's artwork in their permanent collections.[1] Machat hosts a series of shows at the Museum of Flying, which began on June 8, 2019.[13] He also painted the mural Record Breakers for the museum and serves as Curator.[14]
Thank you Mike P
- Sorry, Mike, but except for the "fly in" correction, I cannot tell from that large amount of pasted text where there are any changes. PLEASE only tell me what the corrections are; if the sources support them, I'll be glad to make them. Schazjmd (talk) 00:28, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- Also, if Machat has a photograph of himself that he would like to add to the article, he can upload it at Wikimedia Upload Wizard. It means releasing publication rights to the public, however. Schazjmd (talk) 00:31, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello Sir
Okay please give me the day to do this [your o/n] it is early morning here. I will identify each original sentence and then the changed sentence thereafter - there aren't many.
Each "original followed by the complete amended sentence" will be identified as A] B] C]
Thank you - talk tomorrow Mike P
Hello Sir
Identified Amendments follow:
Biography
A] Original
He graduated from Pratt Institute, then joined the United States Air Force. Machat relocated to Los Angeles, California, where he attended California State University, Long Beach. Machat then began working at the Douglas Aircraft Company[2] as a Staff Artist and Corporate Representative.[5]
A] Amended [The amendments are the 'placement changes' of attended and graduated
He attended the Pratt Institute, then joined the United States Air Force. Machat relocated to Los Angeles, California, where he graduated from California State University, Long Beach. Machat then began working at the Douglas Aircraft Company[2] as a Staff Artist and Corporate Representative.[5]
B] Original
In 1984, Machat established an arts studio. He was later elected as the first president of the American Society of Aviation Artists and was made a member of the Society of Illustrators, both of New York and of Los Angeles.[6]
B] Amended to - "his own aviation arts studio".
In 1984, Machat established his own aviation arts studio. He was later elected as the first president of the American Society of Aviation Artists and was made a member of the Society of Illustrators, both of New York and of Los Angeles.[6]
Art
A] Original last paragraph
The Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum (District of Columbia), National Soaring Museum (Elmira, NY), and the National Museum of Naval Aviation (Pensacola, FL) have permanent collections of Machat's artwork.[1] Machat hosts a series of shows at the Museum of Flying, which began on June 8, 2019.[13] He also painted the mural Record Breakers for the museum. Machat serves as curator at this museum.[14]
A] Amended last paragraph after - FL) changes prior to [1] - AND changes prior to [14] -
The Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum (District of Columbia), National Soaring Museum (Elmira, NY), and the National Museum of Naval Aviation (Pensacola, FL) have Machat's artwork in their permanent collections.[1] Machat hosts a series of shows at the Museum of Flying, which began on June 8, 2019.[13] He also painted the mural Record Breakers for the museum. and serves as Curator.[14]
Looking at this they appear to be minor changes of focus and sentence construct by Mike Machat except for the switch around of the facts - Attended Pratt and Graduated Cal.State Uni.
The requested deleted comment appears to have already gone - (DELETE: "and is jet-qualified.")[4] - in the current live copy.
I will let him know about the photo offer separately
Thank you as always Mike P
Hello Sir
Firstly here is a thank you from Mike Machat himself.
"Well Mike, you (and the MSGT) have indeed done it - all looks perfect!!! What a fabulous effort and perseverance you've both given to this project. I'm eternally grateful.
Requested photo is attached, if that's possible to post. I tried several times using the Wikimedia Upload Wizard, but apparently, that's way above my pay grade.
Many, many thanks!
Mike"
SECONDLY I have uploaded successfully his photo to Wiki [common?] via your link but got completely lost trying to find a way to link it to his page
Below is what I called it if you are able to find it?? Thank you again Mike Pemberton
"Mike Machat Climbing the ladder of the NASA McDonnell Douglas F-15 'Active' STOL/MTD"
LINK
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Space_and_Aviation_Firsts&ilshowall=1 Space and Aviation Firsts (talk) 09:42, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
- I've added the image to the article, thanks to you both! Schazjmd (talk) 14:02, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello Sir It's been a pleasure to coordinate with you - and I thank you for your assistance greatly - you go a great job kind regards Mike P Space and Aviation Firsts (talk) 17:29, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
OH NO! - I just received this from Machat!!! MY TITLE is wrong! I am so sorry!
"That airplane is actually NASA 852, a McDonnell Douglas F-18B (That's NOT a Boeing F/A-18, but their special land-based two-seat B model originally built by MDC in St. Louis.)"
Space and Aviation Firsts (talk) 17:33, 16 September 2020 (UTC)