User talk:Srnec

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User talk:Srnec/Archive, 10 December 2005–8 January 2008
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 9 January–20 July 2008
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 21 July 2008–23 February 2009
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 24 February 2009–14 August 2009
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 15 August 2009–14 June 2010
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 15 June 2010–17 May 2011
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 18 May 2011–15 May 2013
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 16 May 2013–14 March 2014
User talk:Srnec/Archive, 15 March 2014–28 March 2016

User:Srnec/DYK

Contents

Proposed deletion of March law[edit]

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The article March law has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 00:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Help with Publilius Optatianus Porfirius, please?[edit]

The article is currently a tub but I tagged it with several relevant templates and transferred text from the Italian version of the article, which is difficult to figure out. Could you help me fix this article up to match the quality of the other languages please?--Sıgehelmus (Talk) |д=) 22:15, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in responding, but I'm afraid this is out of my area and I can't be much help. Srnec (talk) 02:00, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Religion in infoboxes[edit]

I opened a thread at the village pump that might interest you and you might want to give your opinion Regards, --Maragm (talk) 14:13, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Order of the Jar[edit]

This order was founded in early-11th century, after lost its function and activity for a long time, and refounded as "Order of the Jar and the Griffin" in the 14th century (also in Spain), so cormfirm almost all the medieval, early.modern and reaffirm modern sources in Basque, Catalan or Castilian languages; and shields of several old Navarran towns in Northern Spain that have include the badge.--Vvven (talk) 17:10, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 9[edit]

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Prince of Squillace[edit]

Hello Srnec, I've been trying to fix the article, adding references and removing all the rubbish and the supposed current heirs, etc. Notice that there is an article in the German wiki (see link I added) and apparently, the title existed before the Borgias but I don't know German. Have you any other info on this title? For now, I'll leave it as it is and keep my fingers crossed hoping that no more unintelligible BS is added. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 20:36, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

1383–85 Portuguese crisis[edit]

Hey man, i was wondering if that is the better appropriate name for it. FrigidSoil (talk) 20:03, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

"Interregum crisis" is awkward because (a) "interregnum" isn't an adjective and (b) if the period 1383–85 was an interregnum, why do we also need to call it a crisis? One or the other is better than both. Srnec (talk) 22:11, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Changes to Regents articles[edit]

Thanks for your changes to the articles relating to these bands. I am not sure that what you have done fully reflects the position. All three bands are called 'The' Regents. But of the three articles, only one now has 'The' in the title of the article. And I do not understand why the doo-wop band alone lays claim to an article title with no brackets. Why is this? I would have thought that the way the articles about the two bands called 'The Beat' handles this better, giving no precedence to either band. Would appreciate your responses on these points. Thanks, Peteinterpol (talk) 23:26, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps The Regents should be moved. I don't know enough about how the bands are referred to. After all, it's The Beatles, not Beatles. You could propose a move and see what people think. I'd suggest Regents (doo-wop band). —Srnec (talk) 01:06, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
As you indicate about 'the' Beatles, it appears on checking that the doo-wop band and the UK band are known as 'the' Regents. The US punk band is not. So I note your suggestion for 'Regents (doo-wop band)', but would slightly amend this to add a 'The'. I would suggest that that article about the UK band should also have a 'The' added. Peteinterpol (talk) 05:57, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
I am also concerned that as you have left it, if you search for 'Regents' meaning one of the three bands, you end up on the 'Regent' page. I think it someone puts in the plural they are likely to be seeking a band. That was my reason for suggesting a disambiguation page for the bands rather than the redirect you have restored. Peteinterpol (talk) 06:00, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
See Regents (disambiguation). Also, there are a lot of links to "The Regents" that should be fixed to point to the doo-wop page so that the base title can be redirected to the dab page. Srnec (talk) 22:49, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

deletion of infobox[edit]

Hi Smec- I'm curious to know why you deleted the infobox on Alphonso, Earl of Chester. Do we not use them on small articles? I'll watch here. Eric talk 11:55, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Infoboxes are neither required nor forbidden on any articles. See WP:INFOBOX. Whether they are useful is decided on a case by case basis. I removed it in this case because it competes with the article. A short article does not need a point-by-point summary. The interested reader can just read the article. The infobox and the article sat literally right beside each other presenting the same information: one in sentences like an encyclopedia and one in fields like a database. Srnec (talk) 02:00, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
Got it, thanks. Eric talk 11:53, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

order of the holm oak/ orden de la encina[edit]

ok, i will make the article with its respective references, with that be difficult you can refuse that curious part of history, buddy--Vvven (talk) 22:41, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Please see Kingdom of Sobrarbe and this website. This is a legend, not history. Feel free to create the article—but you must present the Order of the Oak accurately, that is, as a legend with no basis in historical fact. Srnec (talk) 02:00, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

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January to March 2016 Quarterly Article Reviews[edit]

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On behalf of the WikiProject Military history coordinators, I hereby award you this for your contribution of 1 FA, A-Class, Peer and/or GA reviews during the period January to March 2016. Thank you for your efforts! Anotherclown (talk) 10:32, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Gonzalo Téllez[edit]

When you have a chance, could you take a look at Gonzalo Téllez which I translated from es.wiki? Also, look at Lantaron and the move made in January 2013. I will continue to add an accent on the "o". Regards, --Maragm (talk) 12:06, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I think the Lantaron article ought to be moved. Nobody who is familiar with the Basque spelling is unfamiliar with the Spanish, but many readers may wonder why Lantarón has dropped its accent.
I made some tweaks to Gonzalo Téllez. It's hard to tell what from the diff because I reordered a few paragraphs at the start. It is probably long enough to have more than one section. Srnec (talk) 00:17, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, much better now. Even though I haven't found a secondary source mentioning his descendants, I think, based on some charters, that he probably did, at least Gutier, Assur and Tello, and going overboard in hypothezising, he could be an ancestor of Tello Pérez de Meneses. The toponymic Meneses derives from the settlers who came from Valle de Mena in Álava. I'll see if I can come up with titles for the sections. Could you take care of Lantarón? I'm not sure how to go about reverting a move. --Maragm (talk) 01:34, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
I created two sections, but somehow, it doesn't seem right and perhaps needs more shifting around, especially because of the chronology.--Maragm (talk) 02:22, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
I just made a quick translation of the Spanish Wiki for Fernando Díaz (count in Lantarón and Cerezo), just to remove the red link. I'll re-read Gonzalo Téllez and see if there's a better structure. Sometimes no sections is better when a figure's biography is so sketchy. Srnec (talk) 16:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC).
I just removed the children...probably you read it too fast! --Maragm (talk) 16:38, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes! Thank you, Srnec (talk) 17:00, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

PD, after I add Carriedo Tejedo's hypothesis on Muniadona, Fernán Glz's mother, in the article in es.wiki, I'm going to translate Munio Núñez. I see that in Counts of Castile he is called Munio Núñez de Castrogeriz. I have him as just Munio Núñez in es.wiki. Which name do you think would be most appropriate? (Another option, Munio Núñez, Count of Castile) Let me know since I can probably do it today. --Maragm (talk) 07:40, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I like simple Munio Núñez, personally. It can always be moved in the future if we have several others of the same name. Srnec (talk) 19:03, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
Going over the articles here (and in es.wiki) on Castile, I see that in both, they are an absolute mess, lacking references and with pretty serious errors. We have Kingdom of Castile which perhaps should just be on the Kingdom itself (as of Sancho II of Castile) with a summary on the County of Castile which, in turn, should have its own article. Within the current Kingdom of Castile article, we have a section on the 12th-Century link between Christianity and Islam which doesn't really seem to fit in, at least as it is now. Then we have the section on Castile and León where it has been suggested that Crown of Castile should be merged into the article. If you ever want to tackle this, let me know and we can coordinate since I feel the subject is too complex to handle alone. I have sources in Spanish which could complement sources in English. For now, I'm going to try to work on the individual counts. --Maragm (talk) 12:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016[edit]

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Fortún Garcés Cajal[edit]

Re the year of his death, the article pasted below, pp. 16-17, quotes a charter dated 1146 the year on which he died:

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I was going through some unsorted files in a folder on my computer the other day and I found this PDF. I couldn't figure out why I'd downloaded a paper about Veruela. Now I think I know. Srnec (talk) 00:46, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

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Massacre of Verden[edit]

Hi Srnec, there is an important discussion about this article's bias to which you may wish to contribute. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016[edit]

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Gerold of Geneva[edit]

Hi. I read your action here, but its wrong. Gerold are only the same count of Geneva, Gerold I doesn't exist and Gerold II was a wrong translation. You can see on the fr:Wr at the article Gérold de Genève with all the references. Cdt. --B-noa (talk) 07:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Krivošije rebellion[edit]

What's wrong with "Krivošije rebellion"?--Zoupan 23:11, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

It was not the only rebellion ever in Krivošije, so including the date is important. Srnec (talk) 23:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Bretislav[edit]

I have made a multi-request. I think your opposal to the former request was unconstructive. We would simply have moved the other two as uncontroversial.--Zoupan 01:26, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Guyenne[edit]

Hi, I see you undid my revision to Guyenne in which I had replaced the main map with another, what I felt was more visually simple, map of the area. I am wondering if we might engage in the conversation over this. I came to the article while reading a book on the 100 Years War, looked at the map, and couldn't even tell in which part of France it was located. I was concerned that the [now current] map in the article was overrun with so many details that the content rendered the map unusable except perhaps for specialists— and Wikipedia readers are by and large not specialists. Is there a compromise map we might agree upon? Thoughts? Thanks! KDS4444 (talk) 11:42, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Does one of the below satisfy you? It is important that Guyenne be clearly a part of France, since it always was. Srnec (talk) 01:04, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
The third image seems to fit the bill! No mistaking where it is located in that one. Would you care to make the proposed edit? KDS4444 (talk) 14:41, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Anglo-French War (1778–83)[edit]

The article was created and heavily edited by various socks, all run by one sockmaster. See Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Vinukin. Feel free to merge, redirect, etc. I only didn't redirect it because there were some legitimate edits, but I did revert back to those. Doug Weller talk 12:39, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Petrus Ferrandi Hispanus - "Biography" section title reverted[edit]

Greetings, The article Petrus Ferrandi Hispanus is missing a lead section. I added the "Biography" section in order to create this lead section. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. There are many thousands of bio articles with this exact same section title, so I do not see any reason for removing. Please explain. Regards, JoeHebda • (talk) 13:04, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

It has an introductory paragraph ("lead"). Since it is a biographical article, subsuming all the text under a heading with that title does not help the reader identify the material or navigate the article. Since it is a short article and there is nothing to divide, there is no need for headings yet. Paragraph breaks suffice for short articles. Once expanded sufficiently, then section headings are useful to help the reader navigate and find the material they are looking for. As it stands, in this article a bio heading serves no purpose. Srnec (talk) 00:09, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Your thoughts?[edit]

I have found no mention of an Ida, daughter of Eustace and Ida of Boulogne, in any reliable sources. Do you know of any information concerning a possible daughter? --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:05, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Keats-Rohan (Keats-Rohan, K. S. B. (1999). Domesday People: A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents, 1066–1166: Domesday Book. Ipswich, UK: Boydell Press. pp. 196–197. ISBN 0-85115-722-X. ) says that Eustace had an unnamed daughter who married Conan, count of Montaigu. K-R also has "was this the Matilda who was his tenant in Dorset?" after mentioning the unnamed daughter. drop me an email and I can send you a scan of the relevant pages. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
On the other hand, Alan V. Murray, "The Army of Godfrey of Bouillon, 1096–1099: Structure and Dynamics of a Contingent on the First Crusade", Revue belge de philologie et d'histoire, 70, 2 (1992), pp. 301–29, at pp. 304–05, flatly denies any basis in fact to Orderic Vitalis' claim that Cono was married to a sister of Godfrey of Bouillon. He cites a document that gives Cono's wife's paternity. Her name was Ida. I think the page should probably mention that the historical Ida, wife of Cono, has been identified as a daughter of Eustace, first by Orderic and then by historains following him, while also mentioning that there is contradictory evidence for a different paternity. I don't really think we need to choose between Keats-Rohan and Murray. Just make it clear that the historical person in question was the wife of Cono named Ida, paternity disputed.
As an aside, someone just put up a Counts of Montaigu article that needs a lot of work. Cono also needs an article, which I may get to work on. Srnec (talk) 02:29, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
So we have sources that say a daughter of Eustace was married to Conon, but none stating she was the daughter of Ida of Boulogne, Eustace's 2nd wife? Should we take any notice that mention of his daughter is not included with the listing of children with his wife Ida, but in the following sentence(Keats-Rohan, 196)? Or am I reading too much into this? --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:00, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
My understanding is that we have one source (the chronicle of the abbey of Saint-Hubert) that says Cono's wife Ida was a daughter of Lambert the Old and another (Orderic Vitalis) that says she was a sister of Godfrey of Bouillon (and so a daughter of Eustace and Ida). The person that certainly existed is Cono's wife Ida. The question is whose daughter she is. According to Murray, there is no source that mentions a daughter of Eustace and Ida explicitly, so he thinks the chronicle is more reliable than Orderic, especially since Lambert the Old was buried at Saint-Hubert. Keats-Rohan apparently follows Orderic, perhaps because the naming makes sense, but that's just a guess. The uncertainty is over the paternity of Cono's only known wife, Ida. Srnec (talk) 03:28, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Re: Counts of Montaigu--

I'm just finishing Wolters' book of on the Counts of Duras and can see that Gilles brother Conon was indeed Count of Montaigu. Is it Cono or Conon? If Conon, should there be I and II to distinguish him from his great-grandfather?

Dr. Grampinator (talk) 15:05, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016[edit]

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Ferdinand I of Leon[edit]

Here are some sources to nicknames that had: "the Great" and "the Magno": [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]. On the contrary, I find no source that says that these nicknames are incorrect; With respect to the image you deleted from the article. here next are 26 sources, reliable or not that directly relate this with the person of Ferdinand I of Leon, here are the next: [8]. So i will revert some action yours without find out on it--Vvven (talk) 00:22, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Those sources are Spanish. "Magno" is not an English word. Nobody is saying that he is not called el Magno, but in English he is only called "the Great".
As to the image, the other image is better because it is contemporary. The image you prefer is later. Srnec (talk) 00:32, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Also is contemporary. This image is medieval from around the same centuries in which he lived, although I have not found a source that says the exact date, it is clear that this is a medieval manuscript apart sources and Spanish wikipedia are clear ensures that comes from a book preserved in the Cathedral of Leon, centre of his kingdom, and books and manuscripts that are kept in the Spanish cathedrals are medieval contemporaries or very important, paintings of other times(f.e. early modern) not contemporaries are preserved in Spain into museums--Vvven (talk) 00:39, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

as it is doubtful that was contemporary, although also quite feasible since other manuscripts that were made during the reign of león, followed the same line, and have a very similar quality, I will reverse the position of the images in the article, the image you want to leave the put up, the king I leave I want to leave where was that image--Vvven (talk) 00:50, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

so much time you takes to respond my comments I think you have no many objections--Vvven (talk) 00:52, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello Snerc, as you can see from the wise-ass comments he left in my talk page, he intends to continue to translate from es.wiki, expecting others to do the dirty work afterwards. I have no intention of doing so and I think the best thing is to get an admin involved by reporting his conduct. His English is atrocious and, if anything, I can do the translations myself, if necessary, but I'm not willing to correct his work. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 01:12, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi. On Jule 2016 my English skills improve a 99 % of its perfection. I know you don't care about but. Now i can say I'm comeback ;). Have a nice afternoon, hang out my friend you deserve :)--Vvven (talk) 22:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

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Better source request for File:Pátria in Timor 1912.jpg[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016[edit]

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Old unreferenced articles[edit]

I've been working on clearing some of the pages that have been waiting the longest for references. A few of them were ones you created. Some examples are Jobert of Syria, Centule V, Viscount of Béarn, Guiscarda, Viscountess of Béarn, Bernard of Gothia, Bernard, Count of Poitiers, Odo of Fézensac, and Gaston III, Viscount of Béarn.

They are good articles, and created back in the day when references weren't expected, but it would be nice to add some refs. Do you happen to remember what sources you used originally? - SimonP (talk) 21:36, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

I'll take a look and see if I can add some refs or if I can remember what I was working from back then. Srnec (talk) 01:34, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXV, September 2016[edit]

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Versum de Mediolano civitate[edit]

Hi Srnec! While working on medieval urban eulogies, I managed to create a duplicate of your article Versum de Mediolano civitate under the title Laudes Mediolanensis Civitatis. By the time I realised my error, mine was the longer article. I ended up moving the article to Laudes Mediolanensis Civitatis, which I initially thought was the more common title, doing a history merge, and fusing the two texts. I'm now having second thoughts on which title is more common. If you'd prefer, now the histories are merged, I think I can move it back to the original title without losing anything. (I've never done a history merge before!) Let me know what you think. Thanks for creating this interesting article, and sorry for the inconvenience. Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 07:54, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

The current title is fine. I'd decapitalise civitatis, but that's a personal preference. Nice work. Srnec (talk) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll move it to the lowercase civitatis and fix all the double (treble) redirects. Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 04:07, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election[edit]

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Talk:Czechoslovak government-in-exile[edit]

Hi Srnec. I seem to remember you've commented on a similar issue in the past at the Yugoslav government page, but a user wants to get a Former country infobox added to the article at the Czechoslovak government-in-exile. I wondered if you'd be kind enough to comment in that discussion? —Brigade Piron (talk) 20:13, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXVI, October 2016[edit]

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Mafalda of Portugal[edit]

Hello Srnec, I just fixed Afonso I of Portugal (descendants), adding as many references as I could. We have Mafalda of Portugal (1149–1160). I just edited that article and referenced that she was born in 1153 and did not die until sometime after 1162. Since we have another Mafalda of Portugal, how do you suggest we baptize this one, Afonso Henriques's daughter? We'll be finding this problem with other Portuguese royals whose articles do not have a single ref. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 22:07, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

I'd probably opt for Mafalda (daughter of Afonso Henriques), but use "Mafalda of Portugal" or "Afonso I of Portugal" if you prefer. Another option is Mafalda of Portugal (born 1153), but a lot of folks around here dislike dates in bio titles. (Obviously not this article's creator, though.) —Srnec (talk) 04:24, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I just did, opted for your first suggestion. --Maragm (talk) 06:14, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Sancha Raimúndez[edit]

Hello Srnec, I'm trying to fix Sancha Raimúndez which was translated from es.wiki. I think that the user who wrote the Spanish version overdid it with the burial part, pretty confusing and maybe requires some pruning. I wanted to add that she raised Urraca Rodríguez, daughter of Count Rodrigo González de Lara. I have a quote from her will (Cathedral of Segovia): Et Urraca filie comitis Roderici quam ego creavi mando Monasterio de Covasrubia cum hereditate... She also probably raised Ponce de Minerva. I don't have Barton's The Aristocracy... and see that in the article on count Rodrigo, (ref 14, Bartón pp. 48-49, no preview of these paegs in Googlebooks) it mentions that this was when she was orphaned. Do you know if Barton mentions the quote above? If so,then I could use it citing a secondary source. Thanks, --Maragm (talk) 14:58, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Barton, pp. 48–49: "Urraca Rodríguez, the orphaned daughter of Count Rodrigo González de Lara and the Infanta Sancha Alfonso, was raised in the household of the Infanta Sancha Raimúndez, the sister of Alfonso VII." His citation is to the Documentación medieval de la catedral de Segovia, pp. 107–08.
Barton's article "Two Catalan Magnates in the Courts of the Kings of León-Castile" also mentions Urraca's being raised at Sancha's court, quoting the same charter. Do you have access to it? The section "Marriage to Estefanía Ramírez" at Ponce de Minerva has a discussion of this based mainly on Barton. Srnec (talk) 15:24, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. Yes, I have "Two Catalan Magnates..." will check it now. I wrote the article on Ponce de Minerva and on Estefania at es.wiki. Re Argavallones, the donation by Sancha to Estefanía which Barton doubts or thinks the charter is fraudulent, I added another source, Serrano, which I think is pretty reliable (see note a) in Ponce at es.wiki). --Maragm (talk) 15:51, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Reversion of 'Uberto Lanfranchi'[edit]

Dear Srnec, Thanks for watching edits. With regard to your reversion of my adding the tag 'refimprove', I could perhaps have done exactly as you suggest, add 'citation needed' in-line tags. But I realized that that would require four or five such tags, and I did not want to violate guidelines on overtagging with the same tag multiple times in a very short article. I really think you should revert your reversion. I see that you mention 3 whole references from two sources, but the refs. were not sufficiently precise as to the material on his work in Pisa to satisfy. The details of his cardinalate are also unreferenced. I know they could be referenced, but they are not. --Vicedomino (talk) 23:56, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Is there material in the article you think is wrong? Srnec (talk) 22:09, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Kingdom of Germany[edit]

Hi Srnec. Fair points. I've added a section on the talk page. It would be good if we can find an accommodation that all parties can live with and I hope this kick starts editors into having another go at that. I actually think much of the article is fine, and that therefore there is way to resolve this, at least for the present. Cheers. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:11, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Julian[edit]

Smerc sorry for reverting you without an edit summary. It is true that there is a strong case for Count Julian never having existed but this cannot be established as fact. There is also a case that he did exist and a significant portion of historiography considers him an actual historical figure. Asilah1981 (talk) 14:32, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I intend to completely rewrite the article in the coming days and add citations. Indeed, it is shocking how many Spanish authors still treat Julian as historical. Srnec (talk) 22:09, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Think that you could say the same thing about Jesus Christ. There is no way of confirming or denying that he existed. Asilah1981 (talk) 12:56, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
I actually think that comparison is ridiculous. In the case of Jesus, we have multiple source written within 50 years of his death. They are in basic agreement as to who Jesus was (Jewish apocalyptic teacher), what he did and what happened to him (crucified by Rome). Hostile and friendly sources (e.g., Tacitus and Paul), in fact, are agreed.
In the case of Julian, there is no evidence of any source that mentions him being written before the mid-ninth century (i.e., 150 years later) or of even being based on a written source earlier than that. The source closest in time (written less than 50 years after his death) does not mention him. Moreover, the sources do not agree very closely on who he was. Was he a governor or a merchant? A Visigothic official, a Roman or a Berber? The story of his daughter is accepted by almost nobody, but the story of the ships is still considered likely by some historians. These do not agree about who he was any more than do the Arabic primary sources. Some think he was historical but that "Julian" was not his name but his title. Some equate him with an Urbanus from the chronicle of 754, although this figure is not recorded as doing the things later sources credit to Julian. So if Julian is historical, we know nothing about him beyond perhaps that he helped the Arabs in some way.
Anyway, I have tracked down a number of sources for Julian (Gozalbes Cravioto, Martínez Díez, etc.). Is there any source on his historicity that you would point me to? Srnec (talk) 16:39, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
I started a discussion in the talk page and added a link.Asilah1981 (talk) 13:50, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVII, November 2016[edit]

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Philip III of Navarre[edit]

Hi. You expanded the article about Philip III of Navarre ten years ago, only to have a majority of that information removed without explanation by an anonymous editor in 2010. Unfortunately, nobody reacted. What remains of that expansion now is two sentences. I expanded the article recently with the aim of nominating it for DYK, but I cannot find sources for the information you added. Can you tell me what sources you used in your expansion? DYK rules demand that all paragraphs have an inline citation. Surtsicna (talk) 14:09, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Ten years ago... I appear to have copied the info from the French Wikipedia. I believe it is accurate, so I will try to dig up some corroboration. Srnec (talk) 00:52, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
I see you beat me to Sumption. I notice that you have a García footnote, but nothing in the bibliography. Srnec (talk) 02:04, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Georg Achleitner has been accepted[edit]

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DYK for Philip III of Navarre[edit]

Updated DYK query.svg On 7 December 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Philip III of Navarre, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that despite his subjects' reluctance to accept him as king, Philip III of Navarre proved to be an effective and successful ruler? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Philip III of Navarre. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Philip III of Navarre), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVIII, December 2016[edit]

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Strasbourg Bishops' War is Factually Inaccurate[edit]

Greetings. During the process of rewriting Strasbourg Bishops' War, I have found that the article contains factually inaccurate information. Namely that the citation (Wilson 2009, pp. 210–11) clearly states that Charles III, Duke of Lorraine also held the title "Bishop of Metz" while Charles of Lorraine (bishop of Metz and Strasbourg) never existed.--Catlemur (talk) 14:22, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Upon further inspection Encyclopædia Britannica states that there was in fact another Charles. Now I am confused.--Catlemur (talk) 14:34, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

See fr:Charles de Lorraine (1567-1607). The bishop was not Duke Charles III. I can only assume that Wilson made an error or else that the cardinal-bishop was entitled to be called a "duke" even though he was not a ruler (as all later male Habsburgs were titled archdukes of Austria whether they ruled the archduchy or not). Charles—the cardinal, not his father—frequently acted as regent when Charles III was away. Perhaps for this reason he was called duke (acting duke)? Monter is explicit that the bishop was "Charles III's second son". May I ask why you are "rewriting" the article? Srnec (talk) 23:12, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

I think you are right, Wilson is probably mistaken. Sorry about the accusation. Rewriting would be an exaggeration, I am going to expand it slightly and add an infobox, since the sources I have acquired are not as detailed as I have anticipated. Cheers.--Catlemur (talk) 11:26, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Re: Medieval maps[edit]

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Yugo govt-in-exile[edit]

I agree with your removal of the tables, but am struggling with how to reduce the background without removing key information that is necessary to understand the machinations that occurred during the war, especially the friction between the Serb, Croat and Slovene members of the government. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:03, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I can have a go at a more robust trimming. How much of the sections "Background" and "Lead-up to invasion" are duplicated from other articles? Is there any information in those sections that you added new or is it all duplicated? The key is to single out the point that needs to be made and make only it. There is no need to quote Tomasevich nor to describe Hitler's feel of the atmosphere at a banquet. (Those are things I would cut, for example.) These details are fine at the main articles, but they make this article top-heavy. Srnec (talk) 01:16, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
I'd be grateful if you had a go at cutting it down. It needs a significant background, but I agree it is too much at present, with much of it borrowed from the coup article, as you can see. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:06, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy Saturnalia![edit]

Lawrence Alma-Tadema 06.jpeg Happy Saturnalia
Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and troll-free. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:42, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! Enjoy your holidays, and good luck if you decide to run for admin. Srnec (talk) 00:31, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays...[edit]

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Season's Greetings
Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Adoration of the Kings (Gerard David, London) is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod (talk) 10:26, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Move review for South-West Africa[edit]

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Move review for German South-West Africa[edit]

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Article rescue barnstar[edit]

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For your excellent work saving Raoul III of Valois. I'm always glad when I am proven wrong at AfD, especially when it leads to the expansion of an article that will be a credit to the encyclopedia. Thank you for your work! TonyBallioni (talk) 20:57, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXIX, January 2017[edit]

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Italian invasion[edit]

Hi, I live there, there is no fort in Bramans in the area specified, it is probably a good faith error, since the commune limit is very close. Sollieres was famous for the fortifications built around bellecombe and the Sollieres pass. This was the sector the most protected on the French side in altitude (above 2500m) especially around the mont Froid defense line (2820m). The Sollieres pass was paving the way to the maurienne valley. On the map, you can see that the main fortifications are being located around Bellecombe which is in Sollieres. All the Italian invasion coming though the commune of bramans had to go through this area, since the valleys on Savine, Etache and Clapier were not used during the battle. But if you want to keep an incorrect information, I won't waste anytime arguing, espceally that since 2017 all the 5 communes in haute maurienne merged into one named Val Cenis. --Gabriel HM (talk) 01:04, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

That's fine. I assume the source may have meant the forts covering the approaches to Bessans, Lanslebourg and Bramans. If the actual fort is at Sollières, then the new wording is fine with me. Srnec (talk) 01:10, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Your reversion of 'Philip of Aragon'[edit]

Your reversion was incorrect. There was indeed one source, an Italian encyclopedia article, but there were no in-line references to any of the statements. Likewise, in the Wikipedia article, there were no in-line references. Nothing in the article could be checked against the encyclopedia article. The article is therefore unreferenced. --Vicedomino (talk) 06:50, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

I disagree. It cited an online encyclopedia. It is easily checked and therefore referenced. Srnec (talk) 23:18, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXX, February 2017[edit]

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Castile/Castella[edit]

I doubt Rodrigo Velázquez's domain were located in Castile, but in "Castella", one of the territorial demarcations ("comisso", "comitatus", etc.) of Galicia. If you read medieval galician documents, some of them refer to counts or "tenentes" of "Castella de Bubal". Even there's a charter from 899 which refers to "Odoarius comes Aucae et Castellae" among a list of galician counts. In fact, there's a village called Sandulces in the province of Ourense. The region of "Castella" could be around Ourense city, between the counties of Monterroso, Deza, Toroño and Limia.

Sorry for my bad english, I'm galician. Vímara Peres (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

I think you are probably correct. The cited charter is from the Tumbo de Celanova, so unlikely to refer to Castile. Srnec (talk) 23:17, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Contemporary image for Peter III of Aragon's infobox. Not a bad quality croat, PLEASE![edit]

Hi, I see you have reverted the contemporary image I included on Peter III's infobox to the older croat version. The image I had included is taken from a non-Catalan contemporaneous source. The Nuova Cronica was written by Giovanni Villani, an Italian banker, official, diplomat and chronicler from the Republic of Florence. Giovanni Villani himself in the 36th chapter of Book 8, states that the idea of writing the Cronica came to him during the jubilee of Rome in 1300, and so he wrote: "... thus in the year 1300, on my return from Rome, I began to compile this book in the name of God and the blessed John the Baptist and in honor of our city of Florence." I am aware of the discussion on the talkpage, and I have respected the opinion of the majority. Actually counting the users' opinions, more users prefer contemporary images 3 or 4 (I had inserted one of those, both from the Italian Nuova Cronica written by Villani). (Users that prefer contemporary images 3 or 4: EeuHP, HChc2009, Tarc, myself, and even Ealdgyth, who seems to be discussing between the croat and a 1600's portrait, aparently ignoring images 3 and 4, says ... Stick with contemporary or near contemporary - or if lacking such, something that is clear to the reader that it's not pretending to be something it isn't - a realistic portrait. The image I inserted is, as it should be in any enciclopedia, a contemporary image of the king (Villani started writing the chronicle just 15 years after Peter's death, so obviously they had been contemporary and had lived both at the same time). Enciclopedic policies demand contemporary sources, and that is what has been done. The initial discussion between Maragm and PaulB are not aware of those images, and only discuss between two other sources: the croat or the 17th century portrait. Of course, in that case I would also think the croat to be a better option. Paul B doesn't seem to be aware of the contemporary Villani's chronicle images of the king neither. Maragm hasn't shown up since he started the discussion defending the croat against the 17th century portrait (not mentioning images 3 or 4 from the Cronica). I think the 17th century portrait is now out of the best enciclopedic possibilities, and I agree it should be discarted as an option for the infobox image. Please, give me a reason why a contemporary portrait shouldn't prevail? Why do you prefer a bad quality croat image, with an unclear image of the person? (as Paul B agrees (quote) "In fact it's a crude imitation of late Roman coin types,..."). Consensus has been reached on the talk page. Respect. Ethra2016 (talk) 21:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Your feedback matters: Final reminder to take the global Wikimedia survey[edit]

March Madness 2017[edit]

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A barnstar for you![edit]

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Dear Jwslubbock, I award you The Christianity Barnstar for all your hard work in WikiProject Christianity-related articles, especially your recent creation of Hoger (abbot). Keep up the good work! Your efforts are making a difference here! With regards, AnupamTalk 17:33, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXI, March 2017[edit]

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Mathematician?[edit]

I noticed you edited the article on the Hausdorff paradox. Are you by any chance a fellow mathematician?

Dr. Grampinator (talk) 14:16, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

@Dr. Grampinator: No, I'm not a mathematician. My educational background is chemistry. Srnec (talk) 21:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Revert on Rangoon riots (1930) page[edit]

Hello, Srnec, you recently reverted an edit I made to the "Rangoon riots (1930)." I changed it to simply "Rangoon riots" because no other such riots in Rangoon pages on Wikipedia. You stated that this is "false." Can you link me to another Rangoon riot that has a Wikipedia page? I couldn't find one. Kamalthebest (talk) 20:44, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

There isn't one yet, but there could be in the future. It was my intention to create an article on the Rangoon riots of 1938, although I never did. I may yet get to it. Note that your edit summary said "there are no other Rangoon riots that this could be confused with", which is what was false. Srnec (talk) 20:54, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
@Srnec: Yes, by "there are no other Rangoon riots that this could be confused with" I meant that there were no "other Rangoon riots (with Wikipedia pages) that this could be confused with." And that's true. It feels unnecessary to add the year to the title when it's the only Rangoon riot with a wikipedia page. However, if you are planning on make a page for the 1938 riots, it makes sense to add the year. Kamalthebest (talk) 23:22, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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Your comment on my contributions to diocesan pages[edit]

You placed the following on my talk page:

I notice you are putting a lot of information on individual bishops in footnotes in the diocese articles. Bishops are basically notable by definition. You could create articles.
  1. "a lot" is an elastic term" and it is ambiguous. Do you mean that I am doing it too frequently, or do you mean that I am doing it in too much detail?
  2. I could create articles, but I don't, due to a lack of information about the bishop, unless there is some hope that they will become more than stubs. I judge this as I collect the information and check it. There is no point, in my view, in sending the reader to an article that has little in it. And that, regrettably, is the situation with a large number of articles on bishops.
  3. I do not approve of the business of turning every Catholic name into a separate article and populating it with material taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia and Catholic-hierarchy.org.
  4. I disagree vehemently with you that 'bishops are basically notable by definition'. Especially in the first millennium they are little more than names. This is not to say that many bishops are not notable; they are. The question is whether there is enough information about them to warrant a separate article.
  5. The information I post on the diocese pages is information that will help the reader understand the nature and activity of the diocese. A bishop's origin, his previous jobs, his patrons, is all highly relevant to the diocese. If it is all spun off into individual pseudo-biographical articles (real biographical articles being impossible, cf. no.2) then a picture of the diocese becomes impossible, and the work of the reader is made more difficult. Wikipedia does not forbid or discourage the posting of the same information in similar contexts.

I hope that my comments help you to understand my perspective. I hate to have to say it, but you are not the 'Censor librorum' of the Catholic portal.

--Vicedomino (talk) 01:53, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

(I have taken the liberty of refactoring your comment since it is on my talk page.)
I mean that it is not the purpose of footnotes appended to lists of bishops in articles on dioceses to give brief biographies. See Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Agrigento. In some cases, it could lead to duplication. For example, you put a note for bishop Gerlandus even though he has an article. So by "a lot" I mean that the note is more than is necessary to understand what it applies to: the bishop's name and dates.
You are, obviously, under no obligation to create articles you do not wish to create. But why send the reader to a footnote that reads:

Ramirez belonged to a noble family of Toledo (Spain). At the age of eleven, he was sent to Salamanca, where he ultimately obtained the degree of Master of theology. He taught theology in the houses of his Order, and ultimately became a Regent Master at the Dominican school at Santa Maria sopra Minerva in Rome. King Philip V of Spain presented him to the diocese of Brindisi, which was approved by Pope Innocent XI on 28 February 1689. On 26 August 1697 Ramirez was transferred to the diocese of Agrigento by Pope Innocent XII, where he was received on 15 September. He held a diocesan synod in 1703. In May 1702 he took the place of the ailing Archbishop of Palermo at the head of the Royal Council of Sicily. In 1713, when the government of Sicily and the Papacy were engaged in an argument, Ramirez was ejected from his diocese; he retired to Rome. He died at the Minerva on 27 August 1715.

...instead of an article? It is as easy for the reader to get back to where he was from the article as from the footnote. Certainly the footnotes you are making provide more information than is present in the list or the article on the diocese, so the reader who wants more information will not be disappointed, even if he was hoping for more.
"I do not approve of the business of turning every Catholic name into a separate article and populating it with material taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia and Catholic-hierarchy.org." Neither do I, but since that isn't what you are doing, why bring it up? There is an article, if I'm not mistaken, on every single English bishop ever. They are of good quality and rely on scholarly sources (at least the medieval ones I'm familiar with). Why should only England get this treatment?
"I disagree vehemently with you that 'bishops are basically notable by definition'. Especially in the first millennium they are little more than names. This is not to say that many bishops are not notable; they are. The question is whether there is enough information about them to warrant a separate article." There is no disagreement, because I agree with you. What I mean is that being a (Catholic) bishop is notable. Of course, if there is nothing that can be said about a bishop other than his name and century, then no article is needed. The list will suffice perfectly. When you can stuff a paragraph-long biography in a footnote, however, you are dealing with a notable bishop.
"If it is all spun off into individual pseudo-biographical articles." Your standards are too high. This is an encyclopedia. Encyclopedias have short articles. All the time. We are not here to write a series of book-length biographies. Wikipedia is a work in progress. A short article may become a long article in time.
"a picture of the diocese becomes impossible". That should be presented in the text, not in a series of footnotes to a list! Srnec (talk) 02:33, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
You replied: "So by "a lot" I mean that the note is more than is necessary to understand what it applies to: the bishop's name and dates." I did not know that references could only apply to a bishop's name and dates. Where does that rule come from? Can you help me by citing a Wikipedia information page that defines the permitted content on Catholic diocese pages?
When you say, ...'more than is necessary', are you suggesting that there is a maximum size to a footnote (such as the one on Ramirez)? If so, could you help me by citing a Wikipedia information page that defines the maximum size?
You replied: "it is not the purpose of footnotes appended to lists of bishops in articles on dioceses to give brief biographies"? Where does this restriction come from? Can you help me by citing a Wikipedia information page that defines the permitted content? (And, by the way, none of the footnotes is a 'brief biography'. At the very most, a few of them are 'extracts from a CV'. There is a big difference both in purpose and in content.)
--Vicedomino (talk) 14:37, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
There are no rules. We do what works best. You and I have a difference of opinion about what that is in this case. I think the purpose of a list of bishops is to tell you who (name) was bishop when (dates). I think that other information about the bishop mostly belongs elsewhere, namely in the bishop's article, which almost all of them should eventually get. You seem to think that in the meantime it is best to write paragraph-long footnotes. Nobody is stopping you.
As for your specific queries... I never said references could only apply to bishop's names and dates. When the main text is only a name and dates, however, there is nothing else that needs referencing. That is the case with lists. You have added information that needs referencing in the footnote itself. This is an editorial decision that has nothing to do with the list of bishops, either its completeness or correctness. By "more than is necessary" I meant exactly what I said: more than is necessary to understand the name and dates. Take for instance, the case of Sampiro of Astorga. We know that his predecessor was still bishop on 26 May 1034, that he was not yet a bishop on 13 June and that he was by 22 September. The list should say "1034", but an explanation of the date range (13 June–22 Sept.) would make sense in the footnote. Telling us that he wrote a chronicle would be out of place. Link his article. Srnec (talk) 21:56, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXII, April 2017[edit]

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re: Images from Rhodes[edit]

I am afraid I uploaded all I had, and I know very little about Rhodos otherwise, I was just a tourist. You may want to ask at the talk of a relevant WikiProject. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:35, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation needed: Odo of Burgundy[edit]

Can you disambiguate the links to Odo of Burgundy? I'm not sure if I could distinguish those intended for Odo, Count of Nevers from the others. Thanks. wbm1058 (talk) 13:35, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIII, May 2017[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIV, June 2017[edit]

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Francia and Wisigoth[edit]

Hi You need to discuss it on talk per WP:BRD and get consensus for the change. "Recomended" means that it is not an obligation an I am opposed to your edit. Could you revert yourself ? The user have reversed his removing. --Panam2014 (talk) 11:46, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I think it can be dealt with page by page. I am not on a crusade, but in certain cases TompaDompa was clearly correct. Out of context, lists of countries can be highly misleading. Srnec (talk) 23:08, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Rodrigo Muñoz[edit]

I changed back your change. This can be confusing, but Rodrigo Pérez de Traba and his wife had mothers and maternal grandfathers of the same names. Rodrigo Pérez was son of Mayor (alias Guntroda) Rodríguez, daughter of Asturian count Rodrigo Muñoz, and her husband Pedro Fróilaz de Traba. Fronilde Fernández, the wife of Rodrigo Pérez, was daughter of Mayor Rodríguez, daughter of Galician count Rodrigo Muňoz, and her husband Fernando Núñez. Agricolae (talk) 02:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

My first thought upon seeing the link "Rodrigo Muñoz (Galician count)" was that it was the count who died at Sagrajas? He's been on my list of 11th-century counts who need articles. But when I saw the name Mayor there and at Rodrigo Muñoz (Asturian count), I thought it was a simple mistake. I did not know that both Rodrigo Muñozes had daughters named Mayor. Srnec (talk) 22:27, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Seeing that Rodrigo Pérez married the daughter of Mayor Rodríguez, daughter of count Rodrigo Muñoz, I immediately thought it was the Asturian, but then I looked at his page and saw his daughter Mayor married Pedro Frúelaz and was mother of Rodrigo, and since he and his bride were not going to have been half-siblings, it had to be either an error or a different Rodrigo Muñoz. That sent me to Barton, and on to Salazar y Acha, in the process getting tied up in knots over the 4 (or more) different counts named Munio Rodríguez of this name mentioned by him and Canal Sánchez Pagín in their works on royal mistress Jimena Muñoz. Agricolae (talk) 21:37, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

A page you started (Dertosa) has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Dertosa, Srnec!

Wikipedia editor Chris troutman just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Creating redirects allows them to be hijacked years later. I recommend not creating redirects unless you're going to be around to supervise them.

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Battle of Mons-en-Pévèle[edit]

Do you know of any information concerning Philip IV being wounded at Mons-en-Pévèle? According to Infantry Warfare in the Early Fourteenth Century: Discipline, Tactics, and Technology, by Kelly DeVries, page 33, "...a Flemish attack that reached the king, nearly killing him."

Would that indicate he was wounded? Or is this to close to original research?--Kansas Bear (talk) 23:14, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Checking the usual suspects, I cannot find a specific reference to injury. In Verbruggen's description of the battle in The Art of Warfare, he does not say that the king was injured, although he describes in detail the king's predicament. Here is one paragraph:

The Flemish attack took Philip the Fair by surprise. He was sitting on the ground, and his first attempt to remount failed, but he was more successful the second time. He had only a small following with him, but even though he saw his troops fleeing, he resumed the unequal battle. He was scarcely in the saddle when William's men came up. The king's horse was killed, his faithful knights perished, but Philip defended himself stoutly. At one moment he lost his weapon, but a butcher gave him a gigantic battle-axe, with which the king felled several of the enemy. Luckily for him he was not recognized, for his knights had ripped off the royal lilies. The oriflamme lay on the ground in shreds. William went on with his men towards the French camp.

I think it is safe to say that the king was not seriously injured, although he was quite possibly injured in one of the minor ways that is typical in such battle (even possibly by falling from his horse). Srnec (talk) 00:41, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Ok. I will remove the WIA from the infobox. Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:54, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Verbruggen thinks the French only lost 1800?? Wow! --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:52, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
He says: "The losses on both sides were heavy, about 300 nobles in the French army, and perhaps 1,500 to 2,000 foot-soldiers. The Flemings had lost as many men, or very nearly so, but they had many wounded as well, and had lost their waggons and tents." His footnote indicates that he thinks the Annales Gandenses and the Chronique artésienne have exaggerated the numbers. He is generally on the low side when estimating military numbers. This battle was claimed as a victory by both sides and was long commemorating as such in the city of Bruges, but Verbruggen agrees that the French claim was justified by their possession of the field of battle at the end of the day. Srnec (talk) 02:05, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Is it just me, or wouldn't you think that Philip would have had a serious amount of his troops between him and the Flemish? --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:13, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXV, July 2017[edit]

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