User talk:sroc/Archive 5

April 2014

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Insulting

This isn't constructive: it's insulting and contemptible. Perhaps you could try and AGF in any future discussions and not just revert to such silliness. - SchroCat (talk) 23:04, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I really do not mean to be insulting or contemptible. I try to assume good faith, but time and again you have dismissed requests to explain why you think the current format is grammatical (despite others disputing this) and dismissing one variation after another because it doesn't cover some other situation. I'm trying to find a title that we can agree upon, trying to remain open-minded and encourage you and others to make further suggestions, but all I see from your end is roadblocks.

Then, you say "I'll explain to you - in simple words of one syllable" ... "so that even you can understand it", as if that is not insulting in itself. I have tried to be dispassionate and stick to the arguments, but you have made this personal. —sroc 💬 23:21, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

You made it personal with unwarranted and unfounded accusations of ownership. I have tried to explain to you that trying to force a one-size-fits-all format onto something that isn't "one-size" isn't as simple as you think it is. Until you get that straight, most of huge suggestions just won't fit, and I'll keep pointing that out to you. It's not ownership, being obstructive, putting in "roadblocks" or anything of the sort, but indicating where there is an error in your approach. Try being a little more flexible in your thinking about this and it may become clear. - SchroCat (talk) 23:44, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Category talk:Filmographies

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Obese Records / Ryan Fluent Form Stewart.

Hi there Sroc, thanks for your comment to Materialscientist regarding my recent Edit. Do you know Flu by any chance? As he is mentioned on other sites (onebelow) I was hoping to create a link from Obese to his bio. Unfortunately the Wiki instructions go over my head and have no idea what I am doing. Flu recently won awards for his latest work and has released 4 CD's and think he deserves a mention. Citations? - I'm his mum so can verify anything on a personal level and can provide concise and up to date information. Is it possible to start a new page for him and then connect to current references? thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.148.156.200 (talk) 23:46, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi there, Mrs Stewart! I do know Flu—just ask him about ol' sroc. I'm happy to provide a little guidance on this. There's detailed information on how to insert citations at Wikipedia:Citing sources, but if this is all a bit much, the simplest way to add a citation in a footnote is to put the URL between <ref>...</ref> tags, like this:

Type this:	Flu aka Fluent Form (Ryan Stewart)<ref>http://obeserecords.com/obs/flu-aka-fluent-form-flu-season-out-02-08-2013/</ref>
Produces this:	Flu aka Fluent Form (Ryan Stewart)[1]
And this footnote:	[1] http://obeserecords.com/obs/flu-aka-fluent-form-flu-season-out-02-08-2013/

It's a crude way of adding citations, as they really should have additional information rather than just the URL, but someone can come and fix up the details later.

A few other things to bear in mind about the way Wikipedia operates:

• Wikipedia has a policy on what counts as reliable sources for use in citations, so avoid relying on self-published sources such as personal websites, blogs, social media, etc. Original research is also not permitted, so "Flu's mum said so" isn't really an appropriate source to verify facts!
• Wikipedia has a policy on what subject are sufficiently notable to have their own article, which generally means having significant coverage in reliable sources. If you create an article for Fluent Form or Flu (rapper) for example and someone else disputes that the subject meets the notability criteria, the article can be deleted pretty quickly.
• There is also a policy that Wikipedia is not a means of promotion, as articles should be written objectively and not purely self-promotion like a blog.

He's on my list to write up an article at some point (unless someone else beats me to it), but I like to invest a bit of time to gather up reliable sources before starting an article in case someone comes along and deletes it. In the meantime, you could start a draft in your personal sandbox, for example at User:Thewaspwoman/Fluent Form, and then copy that over to a new article when it's ready.

Let me know if I can be of any further help! —sroc 💬 00:41, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Flu aka Fluent Form

Hi Sroc, thanks for the reply.....I thought your name sounded familiar. I have briefly discussed with Flu the possibility of doing a blog...actually suggested Discourse aka Henry do one for Crate Cartel because they are mentioned in a few articles as well and then link from there. It really is too technical for me even though I just tried it with your easy instructions then gave up. I know there have been several independent articles over the years so might try and find them and do as you suggested and write a few things up on my personal talk page for future reference as follows;

Flu aka Fluent Form (Australian Rapper)

Flu was born Melbourne Australia in 1985. Since the age of 10, he acquired a taste for Rapping / Hip Hop and began writing his own lyrics there after.. His first CD "Chapters of Substance" was an Indie production followed by The Furnace, , Word Merchant and his latest release Flu Season. Flu aka Fluent Form (Ryan Stewart)

His has collaborated with industry greats such as One Be low https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Be_Lo_discography, Maundz, Geko, Mata, Must, Discourse and others.

Also part of Crate Cartel

Flu recently won awards (2013) - for 1. Best Album Flu AKA Fluent Form Flu Season 2. Best Wax - Flu, Flu Season. 3. Best Beat - "Arrows" by Must Volkoff and Flu

other citations;

Thewaspwoman (talk) 23:20, 30 April 2014 (UTC)thewaspwoman Does all that make sense and is it correct? Wow.....the fact that you have thought about doing a write up on him is great. Please keep me informed if you do it before anyone else does and I'll see if I have anything concrete to offer......regards Priscilla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thewaspwoman (talk • contribs) 22:38, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Priscilla, no worries. Sorry, I know all the wikicode and policies can be a bit much, but all contributions that help to build Wikipedia are welcome! I'll keep an eye on your tslk page and use this as a starting point for developing an article on Wikipedia. All those write-ups on independent websites are great – the more the better!

FYI, you can see a list of other articles I've created and developed here. —sroc 💬

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style

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Thank you

Thank you for your recent edits to List of police-related slang terms. They helped to clean the text of the article up. JIP | Talk 18:45, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Malakia

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Please comment on Template talk:Vulgar Slang

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Flag of Australia

Werieth is back, deleting flags that have valid FURs and which are the subject of commentary, at Flag of Australia. The last time he did this, at the same time he was at List of Australian flags, I reverted him twice and he went away, without choosing to discuss, probably because he was busy discussing with you. Just thought you might be interested since he's also been at List of Australian flags as well. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:42, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Re: Infobox football club

Thanks Sroc – I hadn't seen the response until now actually. I think third jersey (and throwback uniform) were mainly about U.S. sports at first, hence the unconventional naming system. But I'm glad it's unconventional, it makes things interesting. PeeJay may have thought I was suggesting renaming the kits accordingly... I should've been clearer! :-) ... Demokra (talk) 10:35, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

I think what you wrote was clear enough, but things are often open to interpretation when put in writing without the benefit of other cues. Third jersey could just as easily be third colours, and maybe that should redirect to the article anyway. The actual article title may be determined based on the most common name for the topic, not necessarily consistent with other titles, but it's good we're using consistent labels where they appear side-by-side in the infobox. Anyway, the infobox is much better for the change as you had intended! —sroc 💬 11:21, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Largest cities of Kosovo

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Please comment on Talk:Parmigiano-Reggiano

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Please comment on Talk:Damaged Lady

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Just curious...

Do you have any advice on if and how I should have handled this differently? Perhaps I was a bit blasé about responding initially because it's such an obvious WP:BOOMERANG. It's a bit of a time-consuming mess (to my detriment!), so I understand if you're too busy to reply.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 03:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, it's all a bit much for me to delve into the quagmire. Suffice to say that I've been in my share of arguments in these parts and the comments tend to get longer and more aggressive (and not necessarily more lucid) as they drag on. The cooler head of Mark Miller in considering the matter more critically and objectively may play in your favour. You might find it useful to take a break from arguing over it for the time being anyway—indeed, futile arguments are one reason I've taken a backseat around these parts lately—but an indefinite topic ban? I don't really know the history of this, but what I would offer is that if there was a pattern of your changes being reverted, it's better to try to achieve consensus by discussing the issue rather than making more edits to get your way—and if the consensus isn't forthcoming and it's something as trivial as using "m" or "cm", your efforts may be better spent on something else. Whatever happens, I hope you're not deterred from improving Wikipedia going forward. —sroc 💬 08:41, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I agree, Mark Miller does appear to be a cool head and his initial assessments appeared spot-on, although he now seems to be taking the claims of existing consensus at face value (another disadvantage of discussions getting too long to be read through properly). You don't think the 'Height' discussion at Wikiproject Football actually resulted in consensus to ban centimetres do you? Miller's 'support' vote worries me more than the rest, because the others were all just the ones that were arguing in favour of that failed attempt to change consensus at Wikiproject Football. That's what it is, right? A failed attempt. Or am I reading that wrong? (If answering this requires too much delving, don't worry about it. Your time and trouble are very much appreciated.) --Gibson Flying V (talk) 08:55, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I trust that you honestly believe you are being accurate and are on the side of right. However, the question would come down to, right about what? You don't have to be "wrong" in this particular instance because it is a community topic ban and not an administrative intervention. For the most part there are a lot of "rights" in the situation, but it comes down to why you would consider being right in an attempt to change a broad range of articles to suit a consensus from a local template RFC. It is not a subpage of the MOS.

One of the things that I don't always agree with in disputes is that the content can always be argued to further a discussion to change consensus. No. Simply put, not always. Filibustering against the face of other editors disagreeing with you is never a good thing, especially over a long period or many different articles. It can be disruptive as it takes up a lot of time and can quickly become an edit war. Reverting has already taken place, but the issue is actually about disrupting that specific project and the articles under their scope. Can a project impose its own style guide if it isn't a subpage of the main MOS? Yes...it can. Project Film is a good example of how one project's style guide is nearly as adhered to a the main MOS. The same is true with Project Biography. At the DRN we don't generally allow project guides to over rule the main MOS, but as another volunteer pointed out, absent such specific guidance in the MOS, project guides are a good xample of best practice as the opinion of those editors most involved in the topic. Even non-DRN editors say this.

It isn't a question of whether a consensus exists somewhere that allows you to edit a topic and still be accurate. Its a question of whether you should. Your answer seems to be "I should" and really....that begins to tread into point making, but with all of the articles and discussions and your insistence that you have the consensus or one does not exist seems to be saying you really do feel you "should" be editing in this manner. No. Wikipedia is a collaboration and sometimes when editors refuse to collaborate well, we ask the community to topic ban them to allow the improvement of those articles that are being effected. Much of the reason why this seems to have become an issue is the same as most of the reasons these things become an issue. You won't disengage on your own. Technically you have not been so bad as to deserve a block. Topic ban has been imposed. Try to request it be lifted in 6 months.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Something, something, "the comments tend to get longer". To be clear, I only had a skim through the link to the admin noticeboard and haven't checked the previous discussions, etc., so I don't have any view on consensus, nor can I offer a view on the topic ban notion. Sorry! —sroc 💬 00:01, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank's, sroc. I'll respond to Mark Miller on his talk page.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 07:15, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Soccer = football again

I have begun a thread at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Football in Australia)#Full names of soccer clubs to discuss how we should use the "fullname" parameter in the Infobox template. Unfortunately it seems to be being used by some to continue to now sneakily press the claim that their game is called football. Please join the discussion. HiLo48 (talk) 08:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)