User talk:Stfg/Archive 8

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Happy Halloween!

Caramel Peanut Candy Apples 2592px.jpg
Wilhelmina Will has given you some caramel and a candy apple! Caramel and candy-coated apples are fun Halloween treats, and promote WikiLove on Halloween. Hopefully these have made your Halloween (and the proceeding days) much sweeter. Happy Halloween!

If Trick-or-treaters come your way, add {{subst:Halloween apples}} to their talkpage with a spoooooky message!


Cheers! :) Like my singing? Ha-la-la-la-la-la-LA-LAAA!!! (talk) 23:20, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Ooh! all that sugar! I'm so hyper now! Thanks, WW. --Stfg (talk) 00:27, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for starting up the November drive. I was out with my kids doing some trick-or-treating and it slipped my mind. —Torchiest talkedits 00:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

No worries, but I charge consultancy fees. :) --Stfg (talk) 00:27, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Did we plan on doing rollover words for blitzes separate from drives? I was about to change the blitz intro page but wanted to be sure. —Torchiest talkedits 22:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, separate from drives, I think, because the currency is different. There's a rollover words page, which I've just edited into the signup things. Thanks for creating the new blitz. --Stfg (talk) 22:45, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Barangay lists

Hi Stfg. I've just closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Loon, Bohol Elected Barangay Officials (2010-2013) as a clear delete; if you can point me to the other articles of this nature that you mentioned, I'd be happy to delete them as well, using this AfD as the rationale - saves you having to bulk-nom them. Yunshui  13:05, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Yunshui. Thank you very much; that's a huge help. The articles in question are all those linked from Bohol Barangay and Sangguniang Kabataan Elections, 2010#Results (all three subsections). Thanks! --Stfg (talk) 13:36, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
P.S. I see you're a Go player. So am I :)) --Stfg (talk) 13:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Right, I'll get on and sort those out then. On a different note, if you're ever up for a game, I play on, under the same username - feel free to seek me out there! Yunshui  13:42, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I don't play much these days, but I may pop along one day. --Stfg (talk) 13:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
I hope you do. All the Barangay lists are now gone - what made the process most frustrating was that I forgot my rarely-used Batch delete tool until I was on the third-to-last one, so ended up doing them all manually... Yunshui  14:05, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
I forget such things too, often. Like being in atari. I've slighly rephrased the zoboanga external link so that it's abvious that it's a complete list. Maybe that will demonstrate why copying it to WP is a waste of time and space. --Stfg (talk) 14:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Hyderabad, India failed FAC.

Hi, and warm regards. After discussing and with your kind guidance here. We approached GOCE on 21 July 2012 for c/e the Hyderabad, India, and after certain period it was initiated by User:Lfstevens on 02 September 2012, who did his best for copy editing the article. After which we had gone through the certain reviews and advice from established editors and nominated the article for FAC on 20 September 2012, and there it was denied for FA, due to articles standard of poor English and punctuations.

We applied our best efforts and time to establish the article but as we are not native speakers of English, we severely lack to correct the punctuations, grammar and tone part, and as already we had been through at GOCE I humbly request your kind self to please spare some time at Hyderabad, India and guide us to establish the Briton tone of the article. Thanks and Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 14:55, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, and warm regards to you. I'm sorry to learn that you have had this difficulty. Yes, I will do it, and thank you for asking. As it's a very big article, I want to do it as part of our November drive, so please would you add it to WP:GOCE/REQ and put a note on your request saying I have agreed to do it in November. There is one other request I plan to do first; then I will do yours if you do it in this way. Best, --Stfg (talk) 15:53, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for agreeing and scheduling it for next month, you really made my day :), I had added it at GOCE/REQ here. Anciously waiting for November.... Thanks once again, Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 13:05, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
STFG - I know you'll have greater success than I did. Sorry I couldn't finish this one off and save you the trouble. Cheers. Lfstevens (talk) 18:55, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks very much for saying that, Lfstevens. I'll do my best with it. We have very different ways of working. I'm a real slow-coach and I often fuss over details. You cover much more ground. Thank heavens you do -- we'd be nowhere without you. --Stfg (talk) 19:06, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Very first I appreciate your point of viewing and c/e the article, secondly please continue your good work, Due to scarcity of internet connection in my current location I am not able to respond your quires, but from 11/11/2012 I will be actively participate and as per your advice will correct all errors. And lots of thanks to "Lfstevens" for initiating the c/e at the article for first time. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 22:40, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

disability classing in sports redirects

Should Racquetball classification , Table tennis classification , Powerlifting classification , Template:Basketball classifications , Template:Athletics classifications be sent for deletion, now that the first set have been deleted? -- (talk) 07:45, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that would be a good thing. I'd certainly support. --Stfg (talk) 09:45, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Ok, they're up for deletion at WP:RFD -- (talk) 07:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks very much for doing that. I've supported now. --Stfg (talk) 09:42, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

State university system

It's an article about state (in the sense of one of the United States) university systems -- why and how should it be globalized? We have an article public university for the more general concept. --JBL (talk) 20:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello JBL, thanks for popping by. The State university (disambiguation) page that it links to at the top lists several others, and I know that India, at least, calls its ones state universities, not public universities. The links from the DAB page show that articles for other countries have titles like State university (countryname). Perhaps best would be to change the title to State universiy (United States). Then the tag would be unnecessary. The reason why this is desirable is to avoid systemic bias: not requiring the country name in the US article's title makes it look as if the US is considered to be what one should assume by default, and thus appears to claim pre-eminence for the US. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 20:46, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I agree, this renaming would be clearer. (Also probably there is inherent ambiguity between the terms "state university" and "public university" in general that it would help clarify.) --JBL (talk) 21:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Good point, yes. Thanks. --Stfg (talk) 21:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)


stop vandalizing and storming Hyderabad article with your agenda driven vandalism, you are wantedly storming the article by adding grammar mistakes Covidien (talk) 15:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

I am carrying out a copy edit requested by the editor whose last version you reverted to. --Stfg (talk) 15:19, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

First of all he may not allow u, this is a good artcile, You can do anything, provided you dont vandalize the article in the name of copy edit, by altering the content or inducing new grammar mistakes. Covidien (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Keep yer feet warm, chappie. --Stfg (talk) 15:26, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

It appeals to u Covidien (talk) 15:51, 3 November 2012 (UTC)


Hi, Stfg :) very thanks for your excellent and valued c/e at Hyderabad, India, I heartly appreciate your ability to implement your schedule/words. Please do continue your c/e so tat we shall meet the FA status very soon. Thanks once again.

Note:- I understand some SOCKS might have upset you, but at the same I hope this negative thoughts cant stop you to continue your excellent task. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 20:23, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Omer123hussain. Thanks for your kind message. Don't worry, I'm not upset, but we may have to take life as it comes while the situation sorts itself out. By the way, when you reverted his vandalism, you went back a little too far and accidentally reverted some of mine too. But it's not a problem. As the chappie is blocked, I'll carry on working tomorrow and I'll restore the right starting point. All is well :) --Stfg (talk) 20:54, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for reverting your work, its accidently, and very thanks for your prompt and positive response. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 21:05, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi guys! I was inactive for a few days, so was not able to follow the proceedings. It seems things have stabilized. Thanks a lot stfg :)--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:39, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, stabilized. No worries :) --Stfg (talk) 08:57, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


Didn't see your tag on pregnancy from rape. I won't make further edits till you're done. Jokestress (talk) 18:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. No harm was done, and I agree with your edit. I'll be finished in an hour or so. Best, --Stfg (talk) 18:32, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

October 2012 Copy Edit of the Month

I added questions for everyone who made a submission at the October CEM contest. Please answer when you have a chance. Thanks! —Torchiest talkedits 18:20, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


Is it your intention to withdraw your nomination here? Thanks. Go Phightins! 22:56, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but I can't find out how to do it :) WP:AFD says "If the reasons given in the deletion nomination are later addressed by editing, the nomination should be withdrawn by the nominator, ...", but it doesn't say how! That's why I wrote "if there's a procedure for doing so" there. What's the magic trick? --Stfg (talk) 23:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
You simply write "I withdraw this nomination", on the page, and someone comes in and closes it. This is what I was volunteering to do. Go Phightins! 23:51, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 Done I've closed the AFD. Go Phightins! 23:55, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg We actually had an edit conflict there, as I went to the page and wrote "I withdraw this nomination" in bold at the bottom at the same time. Hehe! Sometimes Wikipedia can be so exasperating, telling you you can do something but not how to do it. Anyway, thanks for helping out. --Stfg (talk) 00:00, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
No problem. Sorry for the edit conflict. Go Phightins! 00:13, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

A question on page range

Hi! Yes, the stationary versus mobile vendors issue in the economy section of Hyderabad looks clear now. However, I have a question on page range. The page range for that thing is 15 to 16. So, I wrote it as 15–6. However you changed that to 15–16.

I read somewhere in the MoS that the common part of the page range (in this case, 1) should be omitted in the closing page of the range. For example, 115–27, for the page range 115 to 127. Is that correct? I have not checked the article for which style is used, and I understand perhaps consistency in style in a given article is more important than a blanket rule. Still, just wanted to clarify my query. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:33, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I must admit I just did that without thinking, but looking around the MOS now, at MOS:YEAR (bullet 3) there's a rule applying to years (2 digits for same century, 4 digits for different centuries, but never 1 or 3 digits), but only examples, not general rules, for other cases. At MOS:NDASH we have the example pp. 211–19 and at MOS:PERCENT there's the example 22–28%.
One other thought (just a feeling, not a rule AFAIK): it's often good to write as one would read out loud; so I might feel comfortable with "pp. 25–6", which can be read aloud as "pages twenty-five to -six", but less comfortable with "pp. 15–6", as it can't be read as "fifteen to -six". If I find any more, I'll message you, and please do the same for me if you find anything. Best, --Stfg (talk) 16:40, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
I informed redtigerxyz (talk · contribs) for opinion here. He probably faced a similar issue during the FAC of Ahalya. May be he can redirect us to some guideline or discussion.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be no concrete wiki-policy for abbreviating the page ranges. As told in Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ahalya/archive1 (failed FAC), it only needs to be consistent. FA Ahalya now uses 15–6 style. If you want, you may start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources. --Redtigerxyz Talk 18:44, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Redtigerxyz. I don't plan to start that discussion, because there are good precedents for allowing different styles provided each article is consistent (like serial commas, date formats and ENGVAR), and any move to settle on one style would probably impact many articles.
Dwaipayan, now we have that advice, whatever decision you make will be fine by me. Currently, though, most of the article seems to be using the full page numbers, for example FNs 13, 16, 21, 32, 33, 35, ... and inline, for example right at the bottom of the Healthcare section. --Stfg (talk) 19:32, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Excellent. So, consistency within an article is the key. Personally I favor whole page numbers. Let the article continue to use whole page numbers, as that is the style currently followed. We do not need yet another discussion :)--Dwaipayan (talk) 23:22, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

GOCE November 2012 copy edit drive update

Guild of Copy Editors November 2012 backlog elimination drive mid-drive newsletter
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  • Participation: Out of 31 people signed up for this drive so far, 22 have copy-edited at least one article. If you've signed up but haven't yet copy-edited any articles, every bit helps; if you haven't signed up yet, it's not too late. Join us!
  • Progress report: We're on track to meet our targets for the drive. We have reduced our target group of articles—November and December 2011—by over 50%, and 34 of the the 56 requests made in September and October this year have already been fulfilled. However, the rate of tagging for copy edit has increased, and this month we are just keeping the size of the backlog stable. So, all you copy editors, please do come along and help us!
  • The September 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest was won by Baffle gab1978 for his copy edit of Expulsion of the Acadians. Runner up was Gareth Griffith-Jones for his edit of I Could Fall in Love. Congratulations to both.
  • The October 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is in the discussion and voting stage until midnight November 30 (UTC). You don't have to make a submission to vote!
  • November 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is in the submissions stage until midnight November 30 (UTC), when discussion and voting begin.
  • Seasonal oversight: We had a slight fall from grace in the title of our last newletter, which mentioned the season in the northern hemisphere and thus got it wrong for the southern. Fortunately an observant GOCE member was ready to spring into action to advise us. Thanks! In future we'll stay meteorologically neutral.
>>> Sign up now <<<

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 20:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


Sorry for accidentally rolling back Misza Bot; I was scrolling in my watchlist and tried to click to stop and accidentally clicked on the "rollback" link. Go Phightins! 19:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

No worries, you got it sorted out straight away. Thanks for the message. --Stfg (talk) 19:34, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Elephant ce

Hello. Dr Chrissy has added in new information for the "Communication" section. I think it may need copyediting. LittleJerry (talk) 23:50, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi. It doesn't look too bad for a GA. If you're planning to take it to FAC, I would recommend requesting another complete copy edit anyway, after all the work that has been done on it since the GA. But, as I've said before, first decide what it should say, and only then work on how to say it with nice words. There's no point copy editing an article that's averaging around 15 edits a day.
If you decide to go that way, please use the GOCE requests route. I don't take direct requests, and in fact my real-life plans almost certainly mean I won't take on any more 10k-word articles for at least a few months. Sorry. --Stfg (talk) 11:52, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Johann Peter Hebel


just wanted to thank you for your edits. Johann Peter Hebel is now a Good Article on three different wikis! :) Regards.--Tomcat (7) 15:31, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Excellent news! Well done. Thanks for the note. --Stfg (talk) 16:16, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Otis Redding


could you do me a favour? Otis Redding is currently again failing because of the prose Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Otis Redding/archive3. Could you check for spelling errors and awkward grammar? Regards.--Tomcat (7) 21:51, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

No. The last time this article was requested at GOCE was your request of 8 November 2011, discharged by Zoe Alkaia in late December 2011. Since then there have been nearly 500 edits. Also, some of your responses at the current FAC hardly inspire a fellow to want to help. For example, when GabeMc correctly pointed out the puffery in "he helped to craft the lean and powerful style of R&B", your reply included the words "Did you ever opened an encyclopedia apart from Wikipedia?" That is extremely rude. You then went on to say 'Lean means "short"', which is rubbish. Then, your first words in response to Maralia were "I am skeptical about the statement that a frequently copyedited article should be again copyedited". As the last full copy edit was almost a year ago, that reply is simply inappropriate. I am also aware of what happened at Dostoyevsky. You are free to use our request page, and my advice to you is then to treat anyone who steps up to help you with cooperation and respect. Thank you. --Stfg (talk) 22:44, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
With "Did you ever opened an encyclopedia apart from Wikipedia?" I actually meant something different, nothing libelous. And the article was copyedited hundreds of times even after the last GOCE request. I can retract those statements any time if someone feels they are uncivil. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 11:38, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
You must be considering each and every edit a "copy edit". No. Here is the breakdown of all edits done this year. The only copy edits are those by Ishtar456 in March-April (quite complete) and by GabeMc this month (lede only). Single-sentence tweaks whose edit summaries say something like "c/e" are not true copy edits and are no response to what Maralia is recommending.
Look, here's another thing you said: in reply to GabeMc's suggestion that "his open-throated style" needs clarifying, you said "It is a simple, plain explanation of his style (even for me). I also did not put this sentence." In the first place, this show that you are taking these comments as criticism of you, rather than of the article. Realise that it doesn't matter who "put" it -- we're talking about an article that you and the editors trying to work with you are hoping to bring to FA standard. In the second place, if a good editor suggests that something needs clarifying, if might be a great idea just to reflect on how you might offer that clarification, instead of giving a bald contradiction. That is confrontational. Calm down, stop imagining that it's all about you, stop monosyllabically challenging anything you don't agree with, and if you wish, use our requests mechanism. --Stfg (talk) 12:37, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thanks for your help with the prose size! Still can't get the script working, it is in my vector.js, though. Cheers, TBrandley 19:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar Face-smile.svg Let's see if we can get this fixed. I see you have it in you vector.js as Dr_pda/... Could you try changing the underscore to a space and see if that fixes it? (Don't forget to purge the cache after the edit). --Stfg (talk) 19:29, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


Sorry to hear from Torchiest that you're stepping down as GOCE lead coordinator, and I hope things are okay your way. He's asked me to stand for coordinator; administrative stuff always takes time from the fun (copyediting), but I realize that someone has to do it :-). All the best, Miniapolis (talk) 03:46, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

That's very kind of you. Everything is fine here, thanks. It's been a real privilege to do this for a term, and I've thoroughly enjoyed it, but I have some real-life-projects I'd like to spend more time on, and seeing great people here who are able to take it on is too good a chance to miss. It's good to keep the Guild moving on, too, with new ideas and projects.
I'm so pleased to see you standing for election. Thanks very much for doing so. The admin stuff doesn't take all that much time. It's a bit bursty, especially setting up and closing drives, but normally it's OK. Best regards, Simon. --Stfg (talk) 12:36, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

My entries in the November drive.

Greetings, Stfg! I just wanted to let you know that I forgot to tag one of my entries in the November copyediting drive. S. Sarath Kumar was tagged in December 2011, which I believe makes it one of the "oldest articles" for the drive, but I neglected to mark it. I just wanted to know if, since you clarified the October 2011 article I copyedited when you checked over my entries, it is alright to modify that, or if you'll at least keep it in mind when you and the others managing the drive are determining everyone's totals? Thanks in advance! :) Like my singing? Ha-la-la-la-la-la-LA-LAAA!!! (talk) 12:44, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, WW. Yes, that's fine, I'll fix it. Cheers, --Stfg (talk) 12:46, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Oh, thank you so much! :) Like my singing? Ha-la-la-la-la-la-LA-LAAA!!! (talk) 12:58, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

GOCE November 2012 backlog drive awards

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
For copy edits totaling in excess of 60,000 words in the WP:GOCE November 2012 backlog elimination drive, please accept this Barnstar of Diligence from the Guild. Thanks for your impressive work! —Torchiest talkedits 17:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Goce silver barnstar.png Leaderboard Award – 4th Place: 5k Articles
This Leaderboard Award is awarded to Stfg for copy editing two articles of 5000 words or more during the Guild of Copy Editors November 2012 GOCE drive. Congratulations on winning this prestigious award. Thank you for your efforts. —Torchiest talkedits 17:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Goce silver barnstar.png Leaderboard Award – 4th Place: Total Words
For copy editing 35,795 words in the November 2012 drive and coming in 4th place overall, please also accept this second GOCE Silver Star Award. Thanks again for all your work, and we hope you'll be back in January! —Torchiest talkedits 17:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks very much, I will. --Stfg (talk) 17:57, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

October 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Award

Goce barnstar.png The Guild of Copy Editors' Award
Thanks for your submission to the October 2012 Copy Edit of the Month contest, and congratulations! For your excellent work on Enamorada de Ti (album), please accept this award on behalf of the WP:GOCE. —Torchiest talkedits 18:02, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks again! --Stfg (talk) 18:03, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

GOCE November drive wrap-up

Guild of Copy Editors November 2012 backlog elimination drive wrap-up
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Participation: Thanks to all who participated! Out of 38 people who signed up this drive, 33 copy-edited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here. All the barnstars have now been distributed.

Progress report: We achieved our primary goal of clearing November and December 2011 from the backlog. For the first time since the drives began, the backlog consists only of articles tagged in the current year. The total backlog at the end of the month was 2690 articles, down from 8323 when we started out over two years ago. We completed all 56 requests outstanding before November 2012 as well as eight of those made in November.

Copy Edit of the Month: Voting is now over for the October 2012 competition, and prizes have been issued. The November 2012 contest is closed for submissions and open for voting. The December 2012 contest is now open for submissions. Everyone is welcome to submit entries and to vote.

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Coodinator election: The six-month term for our fourth tranche of Guild coordinators will expire at the end of December. Nominations are open for the fifth tranche of coordinators, who will serve from 1 January to 30 June 2013. For complete information, please have a look at the election page.

– Your drive coordinators: Stfg, Allens, and Torchiest.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 21:10, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

CCI update

--MER-C 02:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks for letting me know. --Stfg (talk) 10:18, 5 December 2012 (UTC)


Hi, Congrats on all the work you have both done in getting the Hyderabad article so far. Good luck with the FAC. I saw you removed the cn and deadlink tags from the article. The ref given does not link through to stats that support the data given, which is why I tagged it. Is it possible to give clear ref for the stats rather than a link to a search engine? These stats are among those most messed with by vandals and it would be good to have things ship shape for FAC. Best wishes for your weekend. Span (talk) 02:15, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi Span, and thanks. I see you are often the one to correct vandalism on this article. Did you see Omer's instructions on the talk page (here)? If you follow those, you come to the stats. I've put them in a spreadsheet now and had it compute the percentages. There are some small errors, which I've corrected, and I think the source does support these figures now. I've suggested to Omer that he should put detailed instructions in the citation footnote. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 10:45, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I've now put instructions for FN80 in the article. --Stfg (talk) 12:23, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
P.S. Apologies for removing those tags. I had forgotten that it was you, not me, who added them. I hope I've resolved them now? --Stfg (talk) 12:24, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. I have to say I prefer the India census sites that are easier to use and present the info as percentages if percentage data is given in the article. It's hard for readers and vandal hunters (me) to check if the source is right without getting out a calculator. I would say that if a footnote is needed outlining instructions on using a cited website then it's probably time to find another source. I say this mostly because this census engine is used in dozens of articles. But it's a small point. Thanks again for all the work you are putting in. Best wishes Span (talk) 13:24, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I sympathise with those thoughts. Would you care to raise them on the talk page? I've concerned myself more with copy editing rather than sourcing, as I'm not a subject expert. Rgds, --Stfg (talk) 14:38, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't think this particular category of data (religious composition) is available for individual districts/other population subunits in in a straight-forward manner. You have to, unfortunately, go in steps as outlined in the footnote now, thanks to stfg. Other websites should not be used as source for this information as is the publisher and ultimate authority for this. If you find any other area of the website where the figures/percentage are given in a straight-forward way, we can use that.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:52, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks Span (talk) 21:57, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Hyderabad FAC nomination

Gee... there are loads of (grammar, spelling) mistakes in the nomination by Omer. Do we correct those, or just leave it as it is?--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:52, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Leave as is. It's great, and they'll judge the article, not the grammar in the nomination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stfg (talkcontribs) 21:58, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Why the American spelling?Span (talk) 22:01, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Span. Which American spelling do you mean? --Stfg (talk) 22:04, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Drive page fix

Good call on that change. I suppose there's still the chance for a reform ticket to materialize. ;) —Torchiest talkedits 17:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Hehe, yes. I'll get back to looking at things in a moment. There's a different CatScan to look at, so we may have options to consider. More in a few minutes. --Stfg (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

GOCE mid-December newsletter

End of Year Events from the Guild of Copy Editors
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The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in its events:

  • The December 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is currently in the submissions stage. Submit your best December copy edit there before the end of the month. Submissions end, and discussion and voting begin, on January 1 at 00:00 (UTC).
  • Voting is in progress for the November 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest. Everyone is welcome to vote, whether they have entered the contest or not.
  • From Sunday 16 December to Saturday 22 December, we are holding a Project Blitz, in which we will copy edit articles tagged with {{copyedit}} from January 2012. The blitz works much like our bimonthly drives, but a bit simpler. Everyone is welcome to take part, and barnstars will be awarded.
  • January 2013 Backlog elimination drive is a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy edit backlog. The drive begins on January 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and ends on January 31 at 23:59 (UTC). Our goals are to copy edit all articles tagged in January, February, and March 2012 and complete all requests placed before the end of 2012. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who copy edits at least one article, and special awards will be given to the top five in the following categories: "Number of articles", "Number of words", "Number of articles of over 5,000 words", "Number of articles tagged in January, February, and March 2012", and "Longest article". We hope to see you there! – Your drive coordinators: Stfg, Allens, and Torchiest.
GOCE Coordinator.png

Coodinator election: Nominations are open for candidates to serve as GOCE coordinators from 1 January to 30 June 2013. Nominations close on December 15 at 23:59 UTC, after which voting will run until the end of December. For complete information, please have a look at the election page.

>>> Blitz sign-up <<<         >>> Drive sign-up <<<

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Message delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 00:31, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Martin joined me in thinking that your question was a good one

Hello Steve,
You should be amused by reading this
All the best! –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 19:24, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Gareth. It made my day! Simon, --Stfg (talk) 20:04, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad, Simon – sorry about the 'Steve' – I have corrected it (above)
I much prefer Simon. Cheers!  –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 22:43, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
It's Christmas for me. Thanks, Gareth. I hope you have a great one yourself (and as a nice buzzard, please don't scoff that Robin :) --Stfg (talk) 09:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
Ha, ha! That's witty. I like it. Christmas for me too –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 10:52, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject Brands

Fredmeyer edit 1.jpg
Hello, Stfg.

You are invited to join WikiProject Brands, a WikiProject and resource dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of brands and brand-related topics.
To join the project, just add your name to the member list. Northamerica1000(talk) 17:15, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Season's tidings!

Christmas lights - 1.jpg

To you and yours, Have a Merry ______ (fill in the blank) and Happy New Year! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 01:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Bzuk! Face-smile.svg --Stfg (talk) 11:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

December Blitz barnstar

CleanupBarnstar.PNG The Cleanup Barnstar
For copy editing articles in excess of 6000 words during the Guild of Copy Editors December 2012 Blitz, I bequeath unto you this token of thanks. Merry Christmas! —Torchiest talkedits 17:19, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar!

...and enjoy your sabbatical :-). Happy holidays and all the best, Miniapolis (talk) 16:02, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. It will be a semi-break, as I'll look in occasionally. :) --Stfg (talk) 16:04, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the one you gave me too.Getting a barnstar was certainley a great surprise!Assistant N (talk) 23:19, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

You earned it! Have a great Christmas. --Stfg (talk) 00:18, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Christmas tree sxc hu.jpg Merry Christmas
May your Christmas sparkle with moments of love, laughter and goodwill,

May the year ahead be full of contentment and joy,

May the good times and treasures of the present become the golden memories of tomorrow,

Merry Christmas To U & Ur Family.

Jivesh1205 (Talk) 08:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Jivesh. I wish you very happy festivities too. Simon. --Stfg (talk) 09:18, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. :) Jivesh1205 (Talk) 12:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Xmas & Happy New Year

Johansen Viggo - Radosne Boże Narodzenie.jpg Merry Christmas
May this lovely Christmas season bring you delights in all possible forms. May you receive love in abundance and joy that lasts throughout this season. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year wishes to you and your loved ones! — Tomíca(T2ME) 11:32, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Tomica. And I wish you a merry Christmas and happy new year too. --Stfg (talk) 13:36, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy Festivus

Festivus Pole.jpg Happy Festivus!
Here's wishing you a happy Festivus!
May you emerge victorious from the Feats of Strength,
may your list of Grievances be short,
and may your days be filled with Festivus Miracles.
Torchiest talkedits 13:57, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Torchiest. That's new to me. You too, have a great holiday. Simon. --Stfg (talk) 16:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

--Tomcat (7) 14:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Tomcat. I hope you have a peaceful and merry Christmas and a prosperous year in 2013. Simon. --Stfg (talk) 16:46, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


McCutcheonNY1905.jpg Happy New Year!
Wishing you and yours an excellent 2013.
CocoLacoste talk 09:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, my dear! Have a great year yourself. Best, Simon. --Stfg (talk) 13:10, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

December CEM?

Just wondering if you were going to submit anything in the next two hours. The list for this month is a bit short. :) —Torchiest talkedits 22:07, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for thinking of that. No, I haven't really done anything substantial enough this month. --Stfg (talk) 22:21, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
No worries. Happy New Year, by the way. I just realized you're quite a bit closer to 2013 that I am! —Torchiest talkedits 22:31, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, and Happy New Year to you. At 00:00 I'll be filling in the tbas in the report and letting Dianna know when that's done. Might as well also start the Jan 2013 section of the requests page, since I'll have it open to get the count. Would you like me to do any of the other 00:00 jobs (start drive, close Nov CEM, switch Dec CEM, close election)? --Stfg (talk) 22:43, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
I can do the drive and the CEMs. Perhaps it would be best if you closed the election though. Official passing of the torch and all, if you'll excuse the phrase. —Torchiest talkedits 22:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Hehe, yes. OK, I'll do that one. --Stfg (talk) 22:59, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

GOCE 2012 Annual Report

Guild of Copy Editors 2012 Annual Report
Writing Magnifying.PNG

The GOCE has wrapped up another successful year of operations!

Our 2012 Annual Report is now ready for review.

– Your project coordinators: Torchiest, BDD, and Miniapolis

Sign up for the January drive! To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 00:51, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

WP:GOCE November Copy Edit Contest Silver

Goce silver barnstar.png The Guild of Copy Editors' Award
Thanks for your submission to the November 2012 Copy Edit of the Month contest! For your work on Hyderabad, India, please accept this award on behalf of the WP:GOCE. —Torchiest talkedits 15:12, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! And thanks for taking a look at the article. Hope you enjoy the next six months as much as I've enjoyed the last. Simon. --Stfg (talk) 15:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Hm, sounds like that old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times." And I've done almost literally nothing to the article so far, but I do plan on doing more work on it. Cheers. —Torchiest talkedits 15:47, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Hehe, yes, I see how it could have been slightly backhanded. Nah, it was fun and a source of pride for me. I think you'll be a fabulous lead. The tweaks you've made to the article so far are definite improvements, and I appreciate the attention you're giving it. --Stfg (talk) 15:53, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


Happy New Year 2013.jpg Have an enjoyable New Year!
Hello Stfg: Thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Northamerica1000(talk) 15:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2013}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.
Thanks, Northamerica1000. Have a great year yourself! --Stfg (talk) 15:43, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

GOCE coordinator task list

Hey Simon, if you get a chance, could you take a look here and see if there's anything else that could be added to this list? I thought it would be helpful to try and compile all the little things that can be forgotten into a single location. Thanks. —Torchiest talkedits 14:49, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Oops, I only just saw this message (though I saw the task list via Dianna's page). Yes, it's great, and a very good idea to have it. --Stfg (talk) 22:25, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

With thanks

Stipula fountain pen.jpg Baffle Gab Award for Outstanding Service to the GOCE
Stfg, please accept this (picture of a) beautiful writing implement as a token of thanks from me for your outstanding service to the Guild of Copy Editors. It's far more practical than a barnstar and will give you years of writing pleasure! Wishing you all the best for the future, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Baffle, that's really nice of you. I'll go on a course to learn handwriting now ;) Best regards, Simon. --Stfg (talk) 11:23, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Wisdom and authority

The Third Opinion Award The Third Opinion Award
This seems like a beautiful barnstar to recognise your wise work on Wikipedia! Greenmaven (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2013 (UTC) — Greenmaven (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi Jack. It's great to see you around again. I had been wondering if all was well with you -- is it? Thanks for the very touching message. I like the cup of wine to the left! Face-smile.svg --Stfg (talk) 10:21, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
October 2012 was a bad month for me. Overloaded. I was able to give up two activities in RL out of five, and put another two into a position where they were dealt with for several months. I then had an operation, which put me in slow mode for a month. Now I am back to normal and more cautious about what I commit myself to. I am finding vandal fighting a bit less demanding than copyediting, though less interesting. I plan to do a moderate amount of CE in January. As of today, I am part of a week long convention in Canberra, which will take up much of my time. I am having to get better at pacing myself. Thanks for your kind concern - watch out or I'll give you another barnstar for that! --Greenmaven (talk) 18:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Need your advice

Hi, apologize to bother you in this vacation time :), please advice for further actions about the remarks of SandyGeorgia, according to him the article need to be copy edited independently again, which it had already been for two times. Honestly speaking I don’t think we can find any more good copy editor than you, and the remarks pointed by User:Sandy seems not to be so so serious to reject the article for being FA. Any way I am paused and feeling negative in this situation and needs your's and User:Dwaipayanc advice to move forward. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 12:43, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Ugh! Normally I would advise you to be glad that SandyGeorgia is paying attention to the article, because she knows as much as anyone about FAC. But this is outrageous, in my view. I shall be replying in strong terms to it, but I need time to think about the best way to go about it, and I have another duty that cannot wait. I will try do address it later today, but it may possibly have to wait till Monday. I will comment here again later. --Stfg (talk) 13:16, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, I'm not a professional writer, and there are better copy editors than me here. I've put a request for help on the GOCE talk page. It's probably better to do it that way than for me to try and fight it out at FAC, and it's never bad to have another pair of eyes anyway. I'll deal with the hostility and glibness of SandyGeorgia's comments as a personal matter between me and her, if I bother, but it's better not to disrupt the FAC review for that. Good luck. --Stfg (talk) 19:01, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
I have made a few changes in the article and updated that in FAC page. Hope you do not mind that. It will be great if you just glance over those changes and fix any glaring mistakes. In addition, the suggested incarnation of the lead (by MSJapan) is now in the talk page, awaiting his nod, and your touch. However, I am afraid about the possibility of oppose for "insufficient summary" in the lead, though I personally do not think so.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:57, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
It's very nice of you to invite my view. Thank you. I've corrected one mistake where SandyGeorgia's suggestion actually changed the meaning into something absurd. Otherwise, you're doing fine. I've also commented on the lead revision. Will you forgive me if I now bow out, please? Having requested an expert copy edit, I'm afraid that me hanging around debating things might discourage that from starting. As I've said, another top-notch copy edit can only help the article, and I really want to step aside and let that happen. Cheers, --Stfg (talk) 14:37, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

On Hyderabad FAC

Gee... I don't know how to voice my thoughts. I am typing this to both stfg and SandyGeorgia.

First, thanks to both of you for the immense help in this article. Stfg brought this article from a damaged state (quick fails in FAC) to a great one. Without him, I cannot even imagine this article to be in the FAC. Sandy, the FAC-pro, is helping shape up it further. As an editor whose English knowledge is far inferior to both of you, I do not have the audacity to comment on several issues that you guys have different opinion on. When two knowledgeable persons are debating on intellectual issues, the by-standers gain by imbibing new knowledge, and I am doing the same. However, what makes me tense is the degree of conflict (rather,the manifestation of the conflict) in some of the issues.

If you allow, may I suggest a working way? There are some issues in the FAC where we are able to work our way out towards an agreeable solution. No problem with that. On the other hand, there are some issues where clearly both of you will stick to your points of view (which is natural). We are gradually working on the easier issues, and we will continue that. In the difficult instances, can we expect/invite other esteemed opinions? (For example, Hamltonston opined in the "skilled" use of spices issues.)

I do want both of you to please continue your contribution to the article and the FAC. Omer, the principal contributor, and I will feel like orphans if stfg pauses his support. On the other hand, we will ever remain indebted to Sandy if her detailed critique eventually lifts the article to FA status. So, please, we want you both. That's my plea...--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:16, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Dwaipayan, you are always so generous with your support and encouragement. Thank you for this. I will explain myself a bit better below after replying to Sandy, but anyway I assure you that I'm not completely walking away from the article. And of course it's fine to ask for other opinions -- that doesn't need our permission. --Stfg (talk) 12:15, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Stfg; since Dwaipaynanc wrote to both of us, I'll respond here to keep everything together. I'm sorry you were so put off by my review, and am happy to see that Blofeld has stepped up to the plate with an offer to cover several items. Considering he is willing to help with a ce, I'll step aside for now, and revisit as the prose gets closer. As a background FYI, Dwaipayanc and I go back more than six years, and have worked together well for a very long time (he slashed a ton of text out of my first FA and made it a much better article by doing that, so I am forever indebted to him, and we've worked together on several Indian city articles); it didn't occur to me that my comments would be taken so literally or that they would be offputting. My prose is by no means stellar-- I point out issues that I see, make suggestions, and never expect all of my suggestions to be accepted or employed exactly as I state them-- they are always for illustration purposes only. Indian articles are difficult because of not only the differences in English, but also some concepts that are simply strange from a US perspective. I hope you will be encouraged to continue to work on the article-- I will back off while Blofeld works-- but also understand that FAC is a give-and-take between nominators and reviewers, and you are never required to accept any suggestion-- it's just helpful to realize when prose is less than clear to editors who are unfamiliar with the subject matter, and we want our FAs to be clear to any audience. HTH, and I hope you'll stay involved, Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:29, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

() Thank you for your visit, Sandy. I always like to sleep on things like this, but this morning I had been planning to go to your talk page with a flea in the ear for replying to ad rem comments with personal attacks. I don't need to be so fierce after your visit here, but there are some things I need to say:

  • "for the record, I don't typically look at history when reviewing, precisely so I won't be influenced": a very reasonable position, and in any case your choice, not mine. But if you choose not to know the history, you need to be a careful about what you may unwittingly stir up. The fact is that I spent a week of my life copy editing the article, including seeing off a very hostile sock; I collaborated in detail with the authors, as you can see at Talk:Hyderabad, India#Copy edit, November 2012; I checked several of the sources and googled interesting phrases to check for copyvio (finding none). Thereafter, I continued to help reverting vandalism and looking after grammar etc for the enhancements following that discussion. So when you came along with a blunt "An independent copyedit is needed; prose deficiencies are everywhere" when, by your own admission, you "didn't even try to read through everything", you can perhaps understand that I found this rather insensitive and glib, and your attack on my collaboration way off the mark. I understand that Omer123hussain has been quite put out, too.
  • "unhelpful attitude": that I really don't understand. My response to your initial review was to absorb it and post at WT:GOCE#Help needed, professional standard of writing. I have also discussed it with User:Torchiest and posted a request at WP:GOCE/REQ#Hyderabad, India. I have posted several times and in several places that, to give the next copy editor space, I would stand aside. I made it quite clear yesterday that that was why I was withdrawing from posting on the review page.

Now for the main point. I understand very well that comments by FAC reviewers don't have to be accepted, but in all your years at FAC, you must surely have noticed how poorly that works in practice: how often very questionable suggestions get an immediate "Green tickY Done". And questionable suggestions abound, particularly about prose. People have their own ideas about how English works, and very often notions are influenced by half-remembered nostrums of school-ma'ams or simply "how she is spoke in our family/town/skool". Call me "literal" if you like, but when contention arises with language issues, I do actually check in the OED and a couple of usage guides.

Now: I'm not completely walking away from this article and its FAC, but I'm heavily invested in it already, and it will be disprutive if I'm all over it commenting on everything anyone tries to do. Torchiest did some work on it a few days ago and has done some more today. He writes to a professional standard (which I don't) so that is great news and I want it to happen. Dr. Blofeld too, if he will. So I will definitely stand aside while other editors have their say. I'm grateful to Sandy for saying she intends to do likewise. Then we'll see. But I already started announcing about a month ago that I plan to take a semi-break to pursue a real-life project that has been held suspended while I had GOCE duties. How long that will be, I don't know, but now feels like a good time to start. I'll look in most days, but maybe not do very much. I hope you'll understand. --Stfg (talk) 12:15, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, which is helpful, and the hard work you put into the article ... a few days for Blofeld and Torchiest to tweak things up should leave us all refreshed and ready to move forward for a new start. I'll peek in again once someone pings me ... Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:31, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Great to see the development here. Yes, let's see Dr Blofeld and Torchiest (and may be others) tweak things around for a few days. Both of yours input will be helpful after that. --Dwaipayan (talk) 17:29, 6 January 2013 (UTC)