# User talk:Strebe

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## Sandy Island Exists

I'm surprised how quick everyone is to agree to the party line. Simply using Google Maps satellite, one can see that there's something at the location, and its shape is identical to how Sandy Island was presented on old maps that depicted the island at a close distance. I'm not sure it's a true island, and may be mostly submerged, but there is clearly something there. It seems that one source is now the bible for declaring that this island doesn't exist. More baffling is the insistence that the waters in the area are so deep, meaning there's no chance that anything could be there. Looking at Google Maps satellite, the ocean floor is noticeably shallower at and around the location than in surrounding areas.

I post here because you seemed to be the only voice of reason. What is going on that everyone wants to insist this island isn't real and that nothing could possibly be there, all because one alleged expedition says so. That was enough to remove it from all maps? Very odd. 98.221.141.21 (talk) 08:05, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

It’s difficult to tell what’s going on. From the many sources of data I’ve examined, some have been polluted by using WVS or WDB II vectors as masks, making them impossible to draw conclusions from. You don’t necessarily even know that has happened, making almost all sources of data suspect. LANDSAT data mostly shows nothing, though there are hints. Without someone (else) just going out and looking, I can’t draw many conclusions other than that there IS a seamount there reaching within 40&nsp;m of the surface. That part is pretty clear. It’s not 1,400 m. Parts of it might nearly reach the surface. Strebe (talk) 20:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

## Conformality of the stereographic projection

Please stop destroying valuable contribution. Read the conformality – it IS DEFINED as preserving angles of curves intersection, and it is good and important to mention that in the article. Conformality, in general, does NOT GUARANTEE preserving ANY OTHER type of angles. In particular, any (spherical) triangle on a sphere has sum of its angles greater than 180° while its stereographic image on the plane has the sum equal 180°. This implies respective angles of the two triangles MUST differ (at least one of them), so conformality in general is NOT 'preserving angles'. --CiaPan (talk) 23:58, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

You’re not wrong. It’s just that your edit goes into more detail than necessary without being complete enough to be good. The very article you reference, conformality, states verbatim, “In mathematics, a conformal map is a function which preserves angles.” Later on, it does talk about intersecting curves, but with greater context: “A map, ${\displaystyle f:U\rightarrow V\qquad }$ with ${\displaystyle U,V\subset \mathbb {R} ^{n}}$ is called conformal (or angle-preserving) at a point ${\displaystyle u_{0}}$ if it preserves oriented angles between curves through ${\displaystyle u_{0}}$ with respect to their orientation (i.e., not just the magnitude of the angle).” The Stereographic article does not include that greater context, and doesn’t need to. It links to conformal is so readers can learn more about it if they want. The usual pithy explanation for conformality is that a conformal map “preserves angles”. The Stereographic article is not about conformality, so it doesn’t need to go into detail. Meanwhile, your argument about spherical triangles is nonsense. No, the stereographic image of a spherical triangle on the plane does not have vertices that sum to 180°. The sum is the same as on the sphere. It’s not as if a spherical triangle maps to a Euclidean triangle on the plane. Strebe (talk) 02:18, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

## Grammatical ambiguities

"The surface of a sphere, or another three-dimensional object".

is that meant to be "(the surface of a sphere), or another three-dimensional object"?

or is it meant to be "the surface of (a sphere, or another three-dimensional object)" ?

Clearly, it is meant to be the second, but the IP user parsed it the first way, and thence concluded that it was erroneous and in need of correction, and became upset when you reverted it to the 'incorrect' version. My edit removes the grammatical ambiguity. Okay? DS (talk) 00:24, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

First, you need to move this discussion to the article’s talk page, not mine. I will copy and past all this there.
Second, the phrase you changed was not as you wrote above. You’ve added a comma that didn’t exist and you’re using “another” instead of “other” and you’ve changed “body” to “object”. The full sentence was, “A map projection is any method of representing the surface of a sphere or other three-dimensional body on a plane.” There is no defensible way to read that as, “A map projection is any method of representing the surface… or other three-dimensional body on a plane.” It cannot be read that way because “the surface” otherwise does not refer to anything. The reader simply does not understand English or the topic well enough, as is clear from “his” edits that produced clearly incorrect results. Your “correction” does not resolve anything. If I can misread the original the way the objecting editor did, then I can misread your “correction” as well. I do not agree that just because some random person amongst thousands misread the text, that something is wrong or ambiguous, especially when his “correction” was clearly wrong. Strebe (talk) 01:07, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.186.8.148 (talk) 07:40, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

• I don't know the subject matter enough to have an opinion, but it would probably be beneficial to everyone if you toned it back just a notch Strebe. Regardless of who is right on the merits of the discussion, the discussion appears to be taking place in good faith, and poking people with sharp sticks simply because you feel your perspective is the only correct one seldom produces consensus. So please consider a less confrontational way to communicate. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 14:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I will stick to the facts, but I do not agree that discussion is taking place in good faith. To this moment, the IP editor has not acknowledged a single contrary piece of evidence. He has deleted the authoritative reference and supplied none of his own, merely calling it “bad”. Whatever his agenda is, it is not Wikipedia’s. Strebe (talk) 16:30, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm sure you understand that it is difficult to always guess the faith of the editor when you are very unfamiliar with the subject matter. It is difficult to see inside the mind of an editor. I request only to make sure we aren't making a victim out of someone, IF they are in the wrong. Any help you can provide that makes it more clear where the problem lies is helpful. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 16:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
No, my agenda is in fact Wikipedia's (viz. an accurate entry), and once again you're not assuming good faith, in violation of policy. I'm a mathematician so you can understand, I hope, the perspective that I bring. In mathematics a common sphere is 2-dimensional, period. This is intuitively obvious by asking 'How many coordinates are necessary to specify a point on a sphere?' And the answer is 'two'. I understand that sometime 'sphere' is used colloquially, to describe, for example, a soccer ball. This is a geometry we would call a 'ball', not a 'sphere'. Moreover, while map projections in our daily life are typically from 2d curved space (like the surface of the Earth) to 2d flat space (like a road map), this need not be the case, and I believe that the article should reflect that.184.186.8.148 (talk) 02:48, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Your definition of accurate is inaccurate and you are not the authority of what is accurate. Your claimed credentials are irrelevant. I provided a citation from the most authoritative expert in cartographic map projections in the 20th century. You completely ignored it and worse, you deleted it under your personal theory that it was “bad”. That’s not allowed. Do you not understand that your alleged credentials are irrelevant? You may well be a differential geometer, but has it occurred to you that some of the editors involved are actually expert in the topic and of the relevant literature? What matters is what the literature has to say, not your opinion or mine.
You seem to believe that this topic is a proper subset of differential geometry. It is not. It has its own literature and application, and while the mathematics of projection are the same either way, the terminology differs, the notational conventions differ, and most importantly, the field of map projections has a strong overlap with geodesy and whole host of concerns outside of differential geometry. If you have not read J.P. Snyder, L.P. Lee, and Deetz & Adams, then you are not an expert in this field. Your conventions are not the conventions of the map projections literature, and you cannot enforce them outside your field. When you blather on about only needing two coordinates and about how there’s nothing special about those dimensions and that you can’t project without losing some features and on and on, you’re completely wasting everyone’s time. The people you’re addressing are far beyond that. It’s not that people don’t get it; it’s that what you are saying is irrelevant. You are talking about a different topic and as much as you want this to be the topic you are talking about, it is not. Strebe (talk) 04:01, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
You are violating several wikipedia policies, including WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, and WP:GOODFAITH. Moreover, your representation of the credential policy is not correct. Credentials are not "irrelevant", but are to be weighed by individual editors as they see fit ([i]cf.[/i], WP:CRED). I am not "blather[ing]", I am a thoughtful person giving my views on that matter.
The title of the article is not "cartographic map projections". It is true if that were the article your view would be correct, since cartography is the practice of making maps, which are, at least to the present day, all two-dimensional. But this is an article about map projections generally, and maps can be of any dimension (check out, [i]e.g.[/i], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map). The defining point with a projection, conceptually, is that you're going from something curved to something flat and that is impossible to do without "damage" of some sort. That it's a sphere is most common but not necessary. I understand that mathematical conventions are not your conventions, and that is fine. That fact does not imply that mathematical conventions are irrelevant to the article. My view is that mathematical conventions are relevant to the article--indeed essential to it. Why? Among other things, (1) A map projection is a fundamentally [i]mathematical[/i] process and not a matter of convention; (2) there is substantial mathematical discussion and notation in the article; (3) some sentences in the article are false no matter whether you take my approach or yours ([i]e.g.[/i] " a map projection is any method of 'flattening' into a plane a continuous surface having curvature in all three spatial dimensions" (you need not have curvature in all dimensions to produce a projection)).
I made an edit here. I agree that we need not get into the notion of higher-dimensional projections for the purposes of the article. But we should not say that a sphere is 3-dimensional, because that is simply factually false, despite the colloquial usage and whatever your personalized usage is too. If you are willing to concede that in the article I'm happy to remove the tag and not worry about the more obscure concerns of dimensionality.184.186.8.148 (talk) 06:13, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
“But we should not say that a sphere is 3-dimensional, because that is simply factually false, despite the colloquial usage and whatever your personalized usage is too.”
You seem offended when I interpret your behavior. You know what offends me? That you have consistently ignored the citations I have given for my assertions and ignored engaging any facts inconvenient to your position. Calling it my “personalize usage” is offensive, 184.186.8.148. I couldn’t care less if you interpret my behavior; that’s what people do and have to do, and the only difference between people in that regard is whether they voice that interpretation or not. If you’re right in your interpretation of my behavior then I have nothing to get offended about; if you’re wrong, I can’t imagine why I should care; and if you’re somewhere in between then maybe you’ve even given me something to think about. But when you repeatedly, consistently set up straw men to deflect attention from the salient matters, when you ignore all evidence that contradicts you, when you call definitions matters of fact rather than of definition and further insist that yours are the only true ones despite robust, reliable evidence to the contrary, you have shut down any means to converse or resolve anything. And that offends me.
And because it offends me, I will continue to interpret your behavior. Your purpose here is to win, at any price, even if you have to throw the truth under the bus. And that offends me too.
Meanwhile what matters for content is WP:VERIFIABILITY, not your assertions, not your unverifiable credentials, and not your application of conventions contrary to those prevalent in the domain. There is nothing to talk about when your only standard of correctness is yourself. Since there is nothing to talk about, you are not welcome on my talk page. I will delete anything further you post. Strebe (talk) 05:39, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

I won't post anything further on your Talk page, if that is your wish. Be aware that I have placed a request on the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard.184.186.8.148 (talk) 00:28, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

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## Hello, from a DR/N volunteer

This is a friendly reminder to involved parties that there is a current Dispute Resolution Noticeboard case still awaiting comments and replies. If this dispute has been resolved to the satisfaction of the filing editor and all involved parties, please take a moment to add a note about this at the discussion so that a volunteer may close the case as "Resolved". If the dispute is still ongoing, please add your input. MGray98 (talk) 16:31, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

## Thanks for an informative talk page discussion

I've had an account for some time but only recently started actively participating in editing. I appreciate your comments in the talk page discussion Talk:Flat_Earth#Accuracy_of_Hebrew_Bible_wording_fixed. I found your references to and descriptions of WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT to be helpful and clarifying for a new editor. Thanks for providing thorough comments. Wrenoud (talk) 14:32, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello Wrenoud. Thanks for the kindly words, and welcome to Wikipedia! I look forward to seeing many productive edits. Strebe (talk) 22:00, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

## edit unto on fisheye

hi, don't you think we need an example of a fisheye lens with this projection in the article? Cogiati (talk) 16:27, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

No. That violates WP:SPAMBAIT. That link is wrong for so many reasons: 1. Providing examples is supposed to help a reader understand a concept by linking it to something the reader already knows. Meanwhile practically no readers are going to know about that lens. 2. The page linked to is not at all informative. 3. Linking to any particular lens as an example is nothing but an advertisement. 4. There is no reason to choose that lens as an example over any other lens. Strebe (talk) 02:34, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

## Set of map projections

Hi Strebe, I thought I'd give you a heads up that I have opened a feature pictures nomination for the set of images of map projections that you created. If you'd like to weigh in on the discussion, the page is here. Cheers, Cowtowner (talk) 20:53, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

User:Cowtowner, many thanks. Your nomination is gratifying. To avoid any conflict of interest, I’ll avoid weighing into that petition unless to correct some technical error. Here are some more images not in the list you give:
• File:Cassini_projection_SW.jpg
• File:Central_cylindric_projection_square.JPG
• File:Chamberlin_trimetric_projection_SW.jpg
• File:Cylindrical_equal-area_projection_SW.jpg
• File:Mercator_projection_Square.JPG
• File:Peirce_quincuncial_projection_SW_20W_tiles.JPG
• File:Peirce_quincuncial_projection_SW_20W.JPG (in preference to the listed Peirce)
Strebe (talk) 05:12, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for points these out. I've changed the Peirce one and added the projections of high resolution with their own articles (Chamberlin, Cylindrical equal-area and Cassini) to the nomination. I think the tiled Peirce one could be a FP, too, but to keep things simple I've left it out. Cowtowner (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:44, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

## Natural Earth projection

Can you create a sample world map in the Natural Earth projection? I want to add one into my article. Czech is Cyrillized (talk) 02:46, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Done. Strebe (talk) 06:27, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
And, you might weigh in here if you have an opinion. Strebe (talk) 07:15, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

## Sandy Island, New Caledonia

Thanks for the correction, as you have understood, i'm french speaker. Have a nice day/evening, Hatonjan (talk) 18:38, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

## Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Map Projections Set

 An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status Your image, File:Azimuthal equidistant projection SW.jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Armbrust The Homunculus 21:46, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

[Also 46 others, not listed]

wow just saw these, good job strebe , silly idea but can the thumbnail versions of these appear in the maprojections template ?EdwardLane (talk) 23:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
EdwardLane, thanks. As for the template… ooh, you are determined to construct the largest template ever on Wikipedia! ;-) Strebe (talk) 08:21, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Made me laugh out loud there EdwardLane (talk) 08:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 The Graphic Designer's Barnstar For the Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Map Projections Set. Thanks for all the work on this. Pine✉ 07:21, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

## Advises and discussion regarding improvements on articles

Hi there, i write this to you because i notice that you are a regular editor of the World map article, this section particulary involves recent modifications in the article as well further improvements. One thing: The way you left the article honestly looks ugly and incomplete, for example, the "Map projections" section looks rather unfinished and rachitic, with only one map on the lower row, we need to put more maps there to make it look decent. Other thing, you removed the map who adressed human displacement without a reason at all, the map in turn is based on a work made by a cartographer recognized and with publications on cartography fields [1]. Another things: I notice that the world map who adresses the winkel tripel projection is repeated and also appears as the mollweide map, one of these must be removed in favor of variety. In this kind of articles the more variety the better, It also would be appropiate to shrink a bit the heading paragraph's tumnails, so these maps don't invade the space destined to other sections. Finally, I'm thinking of writting a section dedicated to "Early maps", i was looking it up yesterday and i found the sources to do so. Thank you. Czixhc (talk) 00:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the note and good work, Czixhc.
• “the "Map projections" section looks rather unfinished and rachitic, with only one map on the lower row, we need to put more maps there to make it look decent.” There is no fixed number of maps in a row. It depends on your browser window.
• “you removed the map who adressed human displacement.” I have two comments about this. First, none of the galleries is intended to be an exhaustive display of maps of that category. The selection is always going to be haphazard and arbitrary, but the emphasis should be on material that broadly samples what is well represented in the literature. The theme of the map I removed is not well represented in the literature. Second, I cannot make any sense of it. I read the description several times. It still made no sense. If it confuses me, it will confuse most people.
• the world map who adresses the winkel tripel projection is repeated and also appears as the mollweide map… The section on thematic maps focuses on the theme, not the projection. All else being equal, I agree a similar map on a different projection would be better, if available. But just because the same projection appears twice does not suggest to me any problem, since the article is not about projections specifically.
• It also would be appropiate to shrink a bit the heading paragraph's tumnails… Wikipedia guidelines give a standard width of 220 pixels for thumbnails, but also states, Images containing important detail (for example, a map, diagram, or chart) may need larger sizes than usual to make them readable..
• Finally, I'm thinking of writting a section dedicated to "Early maps" Thank you; the article needs much improvement. Strebe (talk) 03:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
• There is no fixed number of maps in a row. It depends on your browser window. I really doubt that it doesn't look rather bad on your window, or in most standard windows, and heading images invading the space of other sections is something unadmisible.
I’m sorry; I have no idea what you are seeing, but what I see looks just fine. The “heading images” do extend beyond the lede section, but those images are not specific to the lede; they illustrate the entire article. Also, the van Schagen map will go away soon; it was only added recently because it became a Featured Image and it needed a home. Strebe (talk) 06:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
• I have two comments about this. First, none of the galleries is intended to be an exhaustive display of maps of that category. The selection is always going to be haphazard and arbitrary, but the emphasis should be on material that broadly samples what is well represented in the literature. The theme of the map I removed is not well represented in the literature. Second, I cannot make any sense of it. I read the description several times. It still made no sense. If it confuses me, it will confuse most people. To add two maps (because you keep one) is not to transform it on an exhaustive display, i was also thinking about adding a map regarding population density, I also don't see how the description confuses you, is rather clear, what is the part you have a problem with?.
Again, the theme of the map I removed does not appear commonly in the literature; it does not belong because of that. As for confusing: In this map the skin color is utilized as a way of highlighting (when compared to maps utilizing population data from earlier centuries) the effects of colonisation as well as migratory trends in the last century. How a map that purports to show skin color relates to colonization and migratory trends is completely obscure. Does the map show present skin color distributions? Historical? If one or the other, then it is a static map that says nothing about the dynamic flow of populations. The description suggests comparing against earlier maps, but those earlier maps are not present here. Also, as a criticism of the thematic presentation, it’s not clear what the value is of presenting the statical information by country, especially since such data compared against historical maps cannot match because country boundaries have changed. And so on. There’s just no context for this map. Strebe (talk)
My browsers (I tried several) don’t show any “invasion”. A map is not “readable” vs. “unreadable”. It is “more or less readable”. The larger it is, the more readable it is. Strebe (talk) 06:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
• The section on thematic maps focuses on the theme, not the projection. All else being equal, I agree a similar map on a different projection would be better, if available. But just because the same projection appears twice does not suggest to me any problem, since the article is not about projections specifically. In such case it would be better to include both statements on the description of a single imgage, not to repeat it don't you think? Czixhc (talk) 03:53, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
I think the section showing projections should name the projections. I think the section on thematic maps should describe the theme. There are image descriptions in the thematic section that mention the projection; there’s no good reason for that. Those descriptions need to be cleaned up a lot. Strebe (talk) 06:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
• I've done various improvements: moved one of the historical maps of the heading secion to the section historical maps, i moved the pacific centric projection map from the thematic maps section to the map projections section, added a map for population density and removed the heading template, since all the references seem to be alright, I still have to write the early maps section, but it's something. Czixhc (talk) 00:37, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I’ve commented on the Talk:World map page; any further discussion should go there. Strebe (talk) 03:52, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
See the new thread opened by Czixhc at WP:RSN. Dougweller (talk) 11:25, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

## Edit on spherical earth

[2], Well, we added what source said, so either we have to add what source is saying or nothing, but for now, i think it's better to keep what source said, or current edit will work too

I’m surprised the source so grossly repeats itself. In any case, paraphrasing is not only allowed but encouraged, for obvious reasons. Let’s leave it concise. Strebe (talk) 17:39, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Also one more thing, in that same section of "india" both of the sources no where mentions "calculated by Eratosthenes in the 3rd century BC", only about the current one, so that line should be removed. Justicejayant (talk) 16:50, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

That’s fine. I don’t know why it’s in there. It’s out of context. Strebe (talk) 17:39, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
On Flat earth, removed the "main:Indian astronomy", because that article doesn't support what is written in this article anyway. Justicejayant (talk) 16:00, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Spherical Earth, here, you must provide a explanatory edit summary that why you reverted the sourced material, which is agreed by others. Also provide on talk page that why you remove them, unless you should not revert them. Thanks Justicejayant (talk) 10:56, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

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## Terrain

Hi, you wrote in an edit summary:

It’s not about “terrain”

The removal of my text (and rewrite of yours) was fine, I just wondered what you meant by that comment, since the rewritten text speaks of "land", "continents" and "regions" - why are those terms OK in this context but "terrain" isn't?  Card Zero  (talk) 22:17, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello  Card Zero . Thanks for the note. “Terrain” sounds fairly specific to physical features of land such as its topography and vegetation. Yet the terms large scale and small scales refer to any map, even if it shows no planetary features at all. Whether continents could be included in the notion of “terrain” is debatable, and nations certainly are not included. The description in place now uses those geographic features as examples but does not imply they are necessary features of the map. Does that make sense? Strebe (talk) 03:13, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes, OK, a map could be of purely political boundaries, or of buildings, and neither of those is really terrain. Thank you for my edification. (The article also mentions a map of a virus as an example of the extreme end of the large scale, which I find a little odd, like Feynman's story of asking for "a map of the cat".)  Card Zero  (talk) 19:50, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

## Gall-Peters Projection

I would argue that a 180-degree rotation is quite a relevant difference. Furthermore, the article opens the door to explaining the reasoning behind the use of that specific map by stating that "prominence to countries in less technologically developed parts of the world that are otherwise underestimated". Finally, while I understand that you strive for editorial cohesion, the strength of Wikipedia lies in the non-linear connections made between various articles, rather than being just a straight forward encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.217.20.146 (talk) 20:56, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I have copied your comments on the Talk:Gall–Peters projection page, where it belongs. Please continue any discussion there. Strebe (talk) 07:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

## Schmidt and Gauss-Boaga

Hey Strebe! I just got the message that you reverted me at Lambert azimuthal equal-area projection. I agree that the Schmidt net should be its own article. It is also a separate article on de-wiki: de:Schmidtsches Netz. Do you want to split the articles? Also, I saw that you specialize in projections. Can you take a look at Gauss-Boaga projection when you have time. Thanks. --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:29, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Done. Strebe (talk) 07:22, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you :) --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:39, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Collignon projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on April 19, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-04-19. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:50, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

## Hammer retroazimuthal projection

Are the two projections supposed to be the same size, or is the front supposed to be smaller than the other? I want to combine them into a single image for POTD, but the article doesn't tell me. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:44, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Hello again Crisco 1492. The images are correctly sized in relation to each other. You can overlay them at full resolution. Strebe (talk) 06:04, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
• So to put them side-by-side I'd keep them at their current resolutions (i.e. one at 2,060 × 2,060, and the other at 1,526 × 1,034)? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:09, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
That is correct. If you overlay the smaller on top of the larger and line up the edges of the "wings" of the smaller with the inner perimeter of the larger, you will see how to position the smaller vertically with respect to the larger. Strebe (talk) 08:12, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
• How would you rather present the images on the main page, side-by-side or combined? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:41, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
• Just another ping; I can't go forward with this without feedback from someone who knows projections better than I do. For a 2D representation of the Hammer retroazimuthal projection, is it better to have the two overlayed or presented side-by-side? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:33, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
That’s a very interesting presentation you’ve come up with! I had not realized the result of putting the front hemisphere upside-down would result in a symmetric display. If one were to change some definitions a bit, the composite would be a reasonable display. However, the correct presentation is to have the front hemisphere •in front• of the back hemisphere such that the “tubes” overlay and the front obscures the back. I can do this if you like, but since part of the map is thereby obscured, it’s no longer a full-world map. Do we want that? Strebe (talk) 22:57, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
• Probably not, but it's worth having on Commons as something we can link to. After your explanation, I think it would probably be better to run this side-by-side (so it is still a full-world presentation), perhaps, with a link to an overlaid presentation for the curious. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:58, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Here it is.

Perfect, thanks. Here's the notification (not like you needed it, but...). Note that I will be image mapping the main page version to link to the individual files, rather than this combined form.

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Hammer retroazimuthal projection combined2.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on May 5, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-05-05. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:26, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Orthographic projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on June 4, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-06-04. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:54, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks again, Crisco 1492. I have corrected the text of the image. For some reason the article has been proclaiming nonsense forever. Strebe (talk) 07:51, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

## Orthographic projection

Hi Strebe,

Thank you for contacting me on this issue. My concern with the title "Orthographic projection (cartography)" is that parenthetical disambiguators are intended to be used to disambiguate, not to indicate subcategories; that title therefore suggests that there is no connection between this article and the main Orthographic projection article, when they are in fact very closely related. Orthographic projection is a mathematical concept which is applied to cartography, and it is this application that is the subject of the article in question. As such, whatever title we use should have a title that does not use a parenthetical disambiguator. Is there another title with which you would be satisfied? If your concern with the title "Orthographic projection map" is that the word "map" is not specific to geography, perhaps we can use the title "Orthographic projection in cartography". I hope we will be successful in finding a mutually satisfactory title for this article.

Neelix (talk) 16:34, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello Neelix. Thank you for working with me on this. I do not see anything in WP:NCDAB or WP:NATURAL that suggests your interpretation of the use of parenthetical disambiguation. Note there is an even stronger reason why “Orthographic projection map” is not an apt title: The article is about the projection, not about maps made from it. One could imagine an article dedicated to (for example, historical) maps based on the projection with nothing more than a brief characterization of the projection. Meanwhile I cannot think of any better title for the article than what it already has. Indeed, there are more articles that properly should take the same treatment, such as Stereographic projection. That article ought to be separated into the more general mathematical form (which is exceedingly commonly used in many domains of mathematics and physics) but also have its own treatment for cartography. In that case, again, there is no other useful way to disambiguate. In the case of the perspective projection, we fortunately have a name extant in the literature we were able to use that is unambiguously cartographic: General perspective projection. Meanwhile the broader category of perspective is handle by Perspective (graphical), which is a redirect from Perspective projection. Strebe (talk) 23:42, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for getting back to me so soon. The problem is outlined in the policy on article title format, which states that we should "not use titles suggesting that one article forms part of another... For example, an article on transport in Azerbaijan should not be given a name like 'Azerbaijan/Transport' or 'Azerbaijan (transport)' – use Transport in Azerbaijan." Similarly in this case, the article is about orthographic projection in cartography, therefore "Orthographic projection in cartography" is an appropriate title, but "Orthographic projection (cartography)" and "Orthographic projection/Cartography" are not. What do you think of a move to "Orthographic projection in cartography"? Neelix (talk) 00:05, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Article titles#Article title format policy you quote is inapplicable to this situation. The explanation and example they give has nothing to do with disambiguation, which is what WP:NCDAB and WP:NATURAL specifically allow the use of parentheticals for. Notice in the Azerbaijan example, “transport” does not disambiguate Azerbaijan. Nobody says only “Azerbaijan” while meaning “transport in Azerbaijan”. Meanwhile, the term “orthographic projection” alone usually refers to the cartographic usage, but may also refer to the more general mathematical description, depending on context. (And actually, orthographic view or projection is even more widely used than any of these articles acknowledge. In computer games, it generally refers to an oblique view, typically 45°, of the game space.) Strebe (talk) 01:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
I think this is the point on which we disagree. Disambiguation has nothing to do with the orthographic projection articles. Our editing guidelines on disambiguation state that "disambiguation in Wikipedia is the process of resolving the conflicts that arise when a single term is ambiguous—when it refers to more than one topic covered by Wikipedia." In the case of orthographic projection, however, the term does not refer to two distinct concepts ambiguously, because there is only one topic for which there are subtopics; the cartography article is a subarticle of the main orthographic projection article because the cartography article explains one application of the subject of the main article. This particular application is a very prominent one, but no amount of prominence negates the fact that it is an application of the main article's subject and therefore is a subtopic. Even if prominence of subtopics made them ambiguous with the main topic (which it doesn't), I am not convinced that the cartographic application of orthographic projection is the most common application as you suggest. Doing a Google Books search with the search phrase "orthographic projection", I am finding a lot of books about its applications to computer graphics and engineering design; the cartography books don't seem as numerous, or at least not obviously so. What are your thoughts? Neelix (talk) 14:46, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
This seems hyperbolic to me: Disambiguation has nothing to do with the orthographic projection articles. Disambiguation certainly has something to do with it. When people say “orthographic projection” outside of any context, the meaning is ambiguous because the same term applies either narrowly or broadly and it’s not clear which at the time. Even if the cartographic usage were a proper subset of the broader usage, the meaning would be ambiguous. But in point of fact it is not even that. Abstractly (but not notationally) the mathematics of the map projection intersect with the broader usage, but there is also a whole body of concerns that the cartographic usage covers that are not part of the mathematical usage. So, neither do I agree that a proper subset cannot be the subject of disambiguation; nor do I agree that the cartographic projection is merely a subset of the mathematical usage. Perhaps it is time to refer this matter to a neutral opinion. In any case, please do •something• about the current situation; “Orthographic projection map” is just not good and you’ve left several pages pointing to redirects.
And, by the way, orthographic projection is hardly unique in using a parenthetical disambiguator in more or less analogous situations. See The Hobbit (film_series), Map (mathematics), Map (computer science), Map (higher-order function), Perspective (visual), Perspective (graphical), Perspective (geometry), Water (classical element), Tone (linguistics), Tone (musical instrument), Spectrum (functional analysis), Spectrum (homotopy theory), Ballade (forme fixe), and who knows what else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Strebe (talkcontribs)
I am not using hyperbole, as my previously cited definition of disambiguation demonstrates. Leaving pages pointing to redirects is not considered a bad thing on Wikipedia. You may be interested to read the guideline about fixing links to redirects that are not broken. The main article is not specific to a particular usage of orthographic projection; it is about orthographic projection in all its usages, therefore its usage in cartography is a subtopic of that main topic. Considering that you have requested that I implement some solution, I have implemented the one I have been recommending; the article is now called "Orthographic projection in cartography". I could continue to address your concerns and arguments, but if you intend to initiate a move discussion, I will save my responses for the broader discussion. Please let me know if you initiate such a discussion. Neelix (talk) 02:23, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:HEALPix projection SW.svg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on July 10, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-07-10. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:22, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• As I probably don't need to point out explicitly, I could barely make heads or tails of the article we have (rather technical if I say so myself). I'd appreciate if you could have a look at the blurb and, hopefully, make it both accurate and accessible. If you don't have the time for both, accuracy first. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:22, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Hello again Crisco 1492. Thanks for the notice and all the work you put into the POTD activities. I simplified the caption for the HEALPix image. I’m not going to try do to anything with the article itself, I don’t think; that would be hard to make it more accessible without just completely rewriting it. I can’t take that on right now, unfortunately. Strebe (talk) 00:43, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
• Thanks, it looks great! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

## Monokini: Etymology

You might want to take a look at the etymology section in the Bikini article. It has sourced, cited and reviewed information that probably can be used here. Aditya(talkcontribs) 06:50, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I found that just after I made my edit. But the sources don’t say what the text said. None of the sources implied that Gernreich thought the bi- in bikini was from Latin or that some “error” was involved. Really, it would be surprising if monokini were the result of ignorance rather than wordplay. Strebe (talk) 23:15, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Two-point equidistant projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on August 30, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-08-30. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

• I'd also be much obliged if you (or a talk page stalker) could add even 500 characters to the article, perhaps explaining the distortions that you mentioned on the article's talk page. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

## Equidistant Conic Projection

I hear you're the cartographer around here! Therefore, I formally request that you create a good image for the Equidistant Conic Projection. It's a somewhat aesthetically unappealing sample at the moment. Thanks in advance! 72.83.246.25 (talk) 23:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Done. Strebe (talk) 03:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

## A small info for you

I am not editing again on tamarind again but a small information for you that In Arabic language هندي means anything from India. هندي means Hindi or originated from India. So when Arabs are stating in their own language that this fruit is from India then why I cannot add any information in Hindi then?. Anyway no point to argue. Keep your dictatorship intact.Mintoo44 (talk) 17:43, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I can only imagine you don’t understand what’s going on. It does not matter what the Arabic word means. What matters is that Arabic is the source of the English word “tamarind”. That is why it is listed at the top, just like etymology for any Wikipedia article’s subject. The meaning of the word is not authoritative as to the origin of the species. Also you keep adding the Urdu and Hindic names for tamarind in a paragraph in the body, but they are already there. Strebe (talk) 20:42, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Natural Earth projection SW.JPG is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on October 15, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-10-15. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:02, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

That’s great, Crisco 1492. Thanks. I’ve made minor edits. Strebe (talk) 03:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Cassini projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on November 17, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-11-17. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:44, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Guyou doubly periodic projection SW.JPG is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on December 4, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-12-04. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:53, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Done. Thanks again, Crisco 1492! Strebe (talk) 02:00, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
• Always a pleasure! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:11, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

## Cartography and prehistoric topographic engravings

Hi Strebe, you've recently deleted some paragraphs on the "Cartography" Wiki page stating that "These artifacts are ambiguous and disputed, and the description is too detailed for the context". While I agree as concerns the too detailed description (I shortened it), I don't agree to the "ambiguous and disputed" condition of the items I'm treating, which are the so-called topographical prehistoric representations in the alpine rock art.

I'm an archaeologist with more than 30 years of experience in the field, and I know what I'm writing about: these "artifacts" act as real archaeological finds, are well dated by the study of the sequence of the engraving phases, and widely recognised by most scholars since the beginning of the last century as a plan depiction of human landscapes (cultivated plots or farms or villages), although some-way symbolic (but all maps are symbols...). So it's not the best choice to define them as ambiguous or questioned.

As being a zenith representation of a territory dating back to 4000-3500 BC (it's not a coincidence that it was the period of the agriculture revolution led by the use of the plough, but this is not a cartography matter), I don't understand why they shouldn't be cited in the history of cartography, indeed as the most ancient European and near-East landscape representation. I may add that, being in a mountain environment, a zenith view of of the land below, like the bottom of the valley or the opposite slope, is quite natural, and may provoke its depiction as a rock engraving; this is a further element which favours a topographic interpretation.

In conclusion, I hope you won't delete again this little contribution, which I think is valuable. It will be interesting for me to write a paper regarding which kind of consideration is granted to such subject, i.e, the engraved iconographic heritage, by scholars of other disciplines.

Many thanks and best of all.

Ruparch (AA) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruparch (talkcontribs) 22:18, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello Ruparch. Thanks for the note. I have copied your comment over to the Talk:Cartography page. Feel free to respond there. Strebe (talk) 09:02, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi Strebe (here the reply I posted to the Talk:Cartography page). Hi Strebe, many thanks four your reply. I'm not strictly an historian, but, as archaeologist, I obviously favour an historical perspective, which, for me, should never be discarded. Naturally I agree that it shouldn't be overwhelming. Regarding prehistoric topographic engravings, I would add (here and not in the Cartography wiki page, naturally…) that in the two main alpine rock art poles, which are Mt. Bego and Valcamonica, tenths and tenths of such engraved rocks show the so-called topographic compositions. As you say, the key is "so-called". But this case is far away from fiction-archaeology or press sensationalism or amateur archaeology: it is clear and self-evident that the engraved geometric and repeated patterns are related to territorial anthropic elements (pls browse if you have any time the suggested references; I can't overload this page with more sample, but I've a lot); it should be disputed if they are fields, houses or shelters for herds: only in this sense. for me, the definition "disputable" may be applied. Their chronology is well testified by the superimposition among figures: these patterns are overlapped by full Copper Age (3000-2500 BC) dagger depictions, archaeologically dated, so they are older. Being so ancient, one thousand year older e.g. of the Yorgan Tepe tablet (2300 BC), which anyway should be cited in the historical section of this Wiki page, no alphanumeric symbols is present, and poor relation is to be applied to the actual landscape, so making it more difficult to interpret. As I wrote, anyway, the fact that such elements of a human-laboured landscape were depicted with a zenith view, fully justifies, IMHO, their inclusion in the history of cartography, as they already are, indeed, like in Delano Smith 1987, which I added to references. Best again - Ruparch Ruparch (talk) 12:49, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Winkel triple projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on December 28, 2014. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2014-12-28. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:56, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Tobler hyperelliptical projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on January 12, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-01-12. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:29, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Albers projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on January 29, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-01-29. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:52, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

It all looks fine. Thanks again! Strebe (talk) 04:54, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

## Hobbit Undo

Hi! I disagree with your undo on The Hobbit but did not want to get persnickety by undoing an undo. I thought the detail addition minor and relevant. After all, it is an accurate addition of four words total: hardly "too much detail" I think. Should we move it to talk? HullIntegrity (talk) 19:51, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Werner projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on February 14, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-02-14. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:51, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Goode homolosine projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on February 26, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-02-26. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:33, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Done. Many thanks for your unceasing efforts, Crisco 1492. Strebe (talk) 19:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Littrow projection SW.JPG is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on March 11, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-03-11. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:05, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

• BTW, these will be spaced at about 10-12 days each now until they're gone, as the FIFO process has caught up. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:05, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Done! Thanks. Strebe (talk) 20:58, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Sinusoidal projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on March 22, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-03-22. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:02, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I think that’s all okay as is. Thank you, Crisco 1492!

## Great images

Hello, Strebe -- I just want to tell you how much I like the images, the map projection distortions in plum and mint colors on your user page. I see you work with maps. I love maps, but don't know anything about making them. CorinneSD (talk) 23:32, 6 March 2015 (UTC) Or is it wine and forest green... CorinneSD (talk) 23:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Depends on whether you prefer wine to plums. A little plum wine, perhaps (梅酒 = umeshu)? (Though that’s typically chartreuse.) Thank you kindly for the note! Hopefully you’ll see more you like. Many, many images have appeared as Picture of the day; see the notices above. Quite a beautiful page of images you’re accruing yourself, by the way. Strebe (talk) 03:34, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I was wondering whether you had made a spherical map, a globe, that could spin. I've seen animated images in some articles. I looked in the article Globe but didn't see one. I wanted to ask you about something in Globe. I noticed that one image that is in the middle of the article of a globe made by Muhammad Salih Tahtawi in the 1600s is also in the gallery at the bottom. I don't think it has to be in the article twice, do you? CorinneSD (talk) 16:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
An animated globe of the arctic as viewed from high altitude, based on the Natural Resources Canada “North Circumpolar Region” (http://ftp2.ctis.nrcan.gc.ca/pub/geott/atlas/archives/english/reference/circumpolar/MCR0001_circumpolar_2008.jpg) as reprojected by Geocart.
Why yes, I have created spinning globe animations. Please contact me by e-mail for a link to one. It is a 385MB file, and not in a format that Commons accepts. I don’t want to convert it because format conversions always create compression and antialiasing artifacts which would be starkly apparent and objectionable on this imagery. The perspective zooms in and back out as the globe rotates, showing the change in limb visibility as the you get closer and then retreat. I could put together something a little less snobby, perhaps.
I hadn’t been following Globe, but course you are right. I tidied up a bit. Needs more work! Strebe (talk) 19:07, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
• What if you used a video instead of a GIF? WEBM is supported. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Oh, they’re not GIF. I’ve tried a variety of formats. Few are suitable due to compression artifacts. The particular animation I had in mind is in .mov format. I don’t think I’ve tried .webm specifically. I’ll give it a whirl. Strebe (talk) 03:58, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
• Sadly it's one of only two video formats Commons accepts. The other, .ogv, seems to be being phased out. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Here you go. Played in a browser, it’s got more stutters than I would like. You’re better off using a stand-alone media player. The original is beautifully smooth. Strebe (talk) 08:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
• It's lovely, but appears upside down (?) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
One face of it is. But spin it around. The text gradually moves upright. This is an artifact of the source map being reprojected. Strebe (talk) 02:54, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

## Graphic

You might be interested in the discussion regarding a graphic representation of a plant virus at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/TMV diagram. I've been trying to help, but since I know nothing about viruses and very little about graphic design, I may not be helping very much. I thought of you since you seem to know how to design things. Maybe you could help improve the diagram. (You might consider moving the discussion to the designer's talk page. Discussions at WP:FP don't usually go on too long.) CorinneSD (talk) 01:44, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

## Could you do some very large projections?

Hello Strebe, I'm a big fan of your work on map projections here, awesome work!

I need some for a non profit Foundation for printing wall size, would you be willing to do a couple of custom Goode and Vertical Projections for that purpose? they're willing to pay for your work. As soon as I was asked for some projections I inmediatelly remembered your work and came here first :) You can find me in Skype, user: akma72

Thanks and sorry for the bother --Akma72 (talk) 20:34, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

## A barnstar for you!

 The Original Barnstar Your projections are just superb, thanks a lot for your contributions! Akma72 (talk) 20:36, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very kindy, Akma72! Strebe (talk) 03:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## Mercator “presented” his projection versus “used in maps”

Hi, Strebe,

You claim that it’s “not accurate” to say that Mercator used his eponymous projection in his own maps:

> The Mercator projection is a cylindrical map projection used in maps published by the Flemish geographer and cartographer Gerardus Mercator in 1569.

preferring instead

> The Mercator projection is a cylindrical map projection presented by the Flemish geographer and cartographer Gerardus Mercator in 1569.

This is his map from 1569:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mercator_1569.png

so why do you say the first sentence is not accurate?

The term ”presented” implies that he merely described it, perhaps in a paper or a talk. It does not necessarily imply that he made a map with it, which he did. So I would argue that the first statement is more accurate by providing more detail about what he did. And that it’s an important detail!

— Andy Anderson 11:52, 21 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aanderson@amherst.edu (talkcontribs)

Hello Aanderson@amherst.edu. Thanks for the note. Two things. First, the text as you had it implies Mercator published more than one map on the projection in 1569. That is not true. Second, your edit does not actually show or even imply that Mercator invented the projection. He simply “used” it. While it is true that he first used it in his 1569 map, more importantly, he presented the projection. The text and diagrams on the map describe the projection and its uses. The map was made in order to present the projection. Does that help? Strebe (talk) 03:17, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi, Strebe. If your concern is the number of maps published by Mercator, you can change the text “map” to “a map” for the same effect, and that would describe the abstract idea of the map he created. However, according to Mercator_1569_world_map hundreds of physical copies were produced. This article also indicates that there were several versions produced, though whether they were simply rescalings and recuttings or were updated in some way is unclear. Regarding whether Mercator invented the projection, your text “presented by” says absolutely nothing about this, either. There is also a discussion later in this article about others who described this projection earlier than Mercator, and do you know for certain that Mercator was not aware of them? If you do, it would be much better to say directly that the projection was “invented and published by” him. Otherwise, perhaps “used and described in maps published by” would be a better choice. But “present” seems very wrong to me, it implies a formal or ceremonial display of the projection, for which you provide no supporting evidence, rather than a description printed on the map. The word “published” still seems much more more accurate to me. Thanks, Andy Anderson 11:58, 22 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aanderson@amherst.edu (talkcontribs)
Hello again Aanderson@amherst.edu.
• In English when discussing publications, we use plural to indicate publications having distinct content, not printed copies of a publication, unless the context is clear. Publishing “a map” means putting out a printed edition of many copies, not printing one map.
• The “versions” were not 1569.
• The list of developments around the Mercator projection do not mention anyone who described the projection before Mercator. The only question surrounds some maps of Etzlab that are evocative of the Mercator. Etzlab did not “describe” the projection or present it, either one. He put out some maps, the origin and principles of which remain obscure. Monmonier concludes, “More telling is Etzlab’s apparent failure to tout his accomplishment in a published article or private correspondence. In Kretschmer’s opinion, it is "rather unlikely that a famous instrument maker and cartographer like Erhard Etzlab would not have mentioned [his development of] a new projection."”[1] It is possible Etzlab “invented” the projection, but he did not present it. Mercator presented it—and presumably invented it, but at least “presented” implies he intended to claim he did, where as “published” says nothing useful other than that he drafted maps on the projection, as hundreds of thousands of mapmakers have ever since.
• In English when discussing origination of a thing or idea, “presented” certainly does not mean “ceremonial”. You have taken merely the first of many definitions from the Oxford American Dictionary and somehow ignored the rest, such as show or offer (something) for others to scrutinize or consider. “Presented”, when discussing the origination of a thing or idea, is exposing one’s development to the world in order to describe the thing or idea and to stake a claim to its origin. This is completely normal usage. You find it everywhere in the history of invention and academia. “Presented” may mean something as formal as a research paper or it may be something as simple as… publishing a map and making claims about it, as Mercator did.
Strebe (talk) 07:16, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Good morning, Strebe.
• You are right about the usual use of plural (as I previously indicated), though I have seen “published” used with plural on occasion, in reference to many copies that might include variants. The primary issue is if there was more than one version, which seems uncertain from the article I referenced, including the dates (see, specifically, the Rotterdam_map, also possibly from 1569). But I am fine with using the singular, I was just trying to allow for possibilities.
• This article also mentions Nunes, who preceded Mercator and first described the basic principles of the map. And the text that Mercator included on his map indicates that he drew extensively on other maps to make his own, so he quite possibly was aware of Nunes’ work. I am not trying to minimize Mercator’s creativity, he does seem to have been the first in bringing these elements together in a comprehensive map and describing in detail how he did it. But the point here is that I don’t think the word “present” in any way indicates this by itself, it needs help.
• As a native English speaker, your use of the word “present” here just seems wrong to me, I think because it is missing the context. Like the Oxford English dictionary I did say the word indicates *either* “formal” *or* “ceremonial” use, but in that use the dictionary indicates that a prepositional phrase is necessary for this verb to provide that context. Let me suggest the following compromise: “The Mercator projection is a cylindrical map projection first presented in detail by the Flemish geographer and cartographer Gerardus Mercator in the insets of the map he published in 1569.”
Aanderson@amherst.edu,
Nunes did not develop the principles of the map. He developed the principles of rhumbs. This was a necessary step in the development of the map, but to say he described the map or its principles makes no more sense than saying James Watt described the steam locomotive because he developed a practical steam engine. And of course Mercator was aware of Nunes’s work; they met several times and corresponded extensively as friends.
I am sorry you have no precedent for this usage of “present”. It is not ‘my’ use; it is that of whoever wrote it. But it is lucid, accurate, normal usage, so I never thought twice about it. The term is used widely, as I described, and everywhere in the map projection literature. I would be happy to give myriad examples if you need them.
Your proposal is deficient because it makes it sound like someone else presented the projection, though not in detail, before Mercator. No one did. Meanwhile I’m mystified because your proposal still uses the word “present”, which I thought you were arguing against. If you’re not arguing against it, then let’s please just leave it as it is. Again, I’m sorry you don’t recognize the usage, but it has been there for nine years without complaint, presumably because it seemed reasonable to everyone else in this heavily trafficked article. Strebe (talk) 01:41, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi, Strebe,
I did not say that Nunes “described the map”, rather the “principle of the map”, because when you establish the mathematical relationship between the rhumb line and the meridian, as Nunes did, you have the mathematical description of the Mercator projection. Mercator’s description of the projection is in plainer language (“we have progressively increased the degrees of latitude towards each pole in proportion to the lengthening of the parallels with reference to the equator”), and whether this understanding was due to him or others such as Nunes I can’t say, but my Encyclopedia Britannica says “Mercator was neither the inventor nor the first user of this projection; but he was the first to apply it (by an empirical method) in a nautical chart for the use of seamen.” Unhelpfully it doesn’t say who “the inventor” actually was.
Yes, I would very much like to see the examples of this usage of “present” that you speak of. I suspect that they will all have an associated prepositional phrase, or an implied one from previous sentences, to provide context.
How about this: “The Mercator projection is a cylindrical map projection presented by the Flemish geographer and cartographer Gerardus Mercator in the insets of the map he published in 1569.” I am including the word “presented” here because I am also providing the prepositional phrase that I argue must be present to provide context. Existence in this article for such a long time and viewed by many people in no way means it is correct, that’s argumentum ad populum.
— Andy Anderson 19:51, 26 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aanderson@amherst.edu (talkcontribs)
Aanderson@amherst.edu,
No, sorry; your evocation of argumentum ad populum is a referential fallacy. An appeal to the populace is correct here because the populace defines word usage; a word usage is not correct independently of usage, and there is no other authority. If you are a member of some small minority that does not recognize the meaning of a word, the burden does not fall on the rest of the world to accommodate you.
No, sorry; Nunes did not describe the principle of the map; he described the principles of rhumbs, as already stated. The relationship between the rhumb and the meridian does not establish “the” principle of the Mercator map; it establishes the relationship of the rhumb to the meridian as a purely local consideration. Mercator’s innovation was how to express all rhumbs simultaneously as straight lines, no matter how long the rhumbs are—even traversing the entire earth. If you will read the Pedro Nunes#Navigation section, you will see that Nunes puzzled over how to achieve this but failed.
I applaud Encyclopædia Britannica for the effort, but ultimately the article confuses the matter. Modern scholars (See Monmonier (2004), Snyder (1993), Gaspar & Leitão (2013), Norenskjöld (1889), Breusing (1892), Müller-Reinhard (1914), Krücken (1994 & 2012), and many others, with no dissent) all agree Mercator is the inventor. I assume the Britannica article’s author had Etzlaub in mind, not Nunes, because nobody imagined Nunes invented the projection. While Etzlaub is evocative, map projection historians agree his efforts culminated in nothing and cannot be shown unambiguously to be equivalent to the Mercator projection. Also, increasingly detailed and contextual analyses (most recently Gaspar & Leitão) show that Mercator’s method likely was not empirical. And in any case, the question here is who presented the projection, and that is unambiguously Mercator.
Mercator did not just present in the insets; the entire map is the presentation. And your strange insistence on a prepositional phrase—beyond what is already present (in 1569), presumably? Why is that not sufficient, and what then would suffice?—is not honored in endless examples, though no doubt you will also confuse a plethora of examples with argumentum ad populum, leaving your thesis amusingly irrefutable:
This discussion has grown tedious and unproductive. If you wish to persist, then please take it to the Talk:Mercator page where other interested parties can weigh in. However, you’re unlikely to find any sympathy for your thesis. Thanks for your efforts. Strebe (talk) 21:43, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Aitoff projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on May 11, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-05-11. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:53, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Done! As ever, thanks Crisco 1492. Strebe (talk) 07:35, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

## Reversion

So, you reverted my edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Byte_order_mark&oldid=prev&diff=660910568

Which, you know, isn't very nice. Prior to my edit, there's nothing in the opening paragraph that gives even a hint as to how a single character can actually communicate what the byte order is. If you think my statement is inaccurate, please improve it, but wholesale reverting a good faith edit that adds useful information to an opening paragraph is just being rude. Would love to see you reinstate some improved version. Stevage 10:09, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Stevage: I did not see any trivial way to repair the edit while leaving any of it. I think I see what you were trying to remedy. I took a stab at it. Let’s move any further discussion to the Talk:Byte order mark page. Strebe (talk) 03:03, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

## Altai mountains

Hello, Strebe - I was just looking at the article Altai mountains, and I was looking at the map in the lede/infobox. I don't think it's a particularly good map. It's a bit fuzzy and the labels are not in English. I'm wondering if you could find a better map. CorinneSD (talk) 16:05, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello CorinneSD. Yes, that map needs help. I don’t see anything better on Commons. I’m also not much of a cartographer myself; my own work is all about map projections, so I’m not in a good position to create a replacement, unfortunately. I encourage you to add a request on the Talk:Altai Mountains page. Thanks! Strebe (talk) 05:38, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, both. I left a request at the Graphics Lab/Map workshop page. Strebe, I guess I don't understand what you do and how doing map projections can be separated from cartography. CorinneSD (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello CorinneSD. Map projections are pretty mathematical. Not a lot of mapmakers deal with them in any sense other than as off-the-shelf components for a map. Meanwhile those who research map projections tend not to be practicing cartographers. For a researcher the applicability of a projection to maps is important, but gets a lot more abstract than just that, and tends not to have much to do with any of the many other considerations that go into in making a map. Strebe (talk) 03:36, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation, Strebe. I thought there were just a few basic map projections (Mercator, etc.) and that's it. What's the need for developing others? Is it more of a hobby or is there a real practical need for new projections? CorinneSD (talk) 14:41, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I left a request at the Graphics Lab/Map workshop page on 11 May 2015 for this and for another map, but no one has responded to either request. CorinneSD (talk) 02:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
I’m not finding anyone who will take this on, either. :-( Honestly, a lot of maps need help. Wikipedia needs far more maps than there are mapmakers to accommodate the need, it seems. Strebe (talk) 08:01, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello CorinneSD. I have entered this map into the FixWikiMaps database. Hopefully it will see some attention. Strebe (talk) 15:21, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Bottomley projection SW.JPG is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on June 19, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-06-19. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:34, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Well hello Chris Woodrich. Thanks for the note. I think this time we can shove it out as-is! Keep up the fine work. Strebe (talk) 06:01, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Hobo–Dyer projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on July 6, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-07-06. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 11:47, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Looks good. Thanks, talk! Strebe (talk) 02:40, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Kavraiskiy VII projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on July 21, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-07-21. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

## Space-oblique_Mercator_projection

Just found this article Space-oblique_Mercator_projection it probably needs some attention from someone such as yourself ? EdwardLane (talk) 22:18, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, EdwardLane! I have added it to my watch list and will give it some attention when I get time. Strebe (talk) 17:20, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

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## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Craig projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on August 19, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-08-19. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:14, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks, Chris Woodrich. I revised the article and made small changes to the template. Should be good to go. Strebe (talk) 17:54, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Gnomonic projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on September 9, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-09-09. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Chamberlin trimetric projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on October 2, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-10-02. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:39, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

## Mercator projection

Please only revert contributions, when editors have blatantly violated Wikipedia's policies, and not based on what you think should be in the article or not. Be aware that promoting your point of view on Wikipedia may be considered vandalism. You may be blocked from editing without further notice the next time you violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 15:33, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

If there is a WP:POV problem here—and there is not—then of course it applies to you as well, Jamie Tubers. And don’t bother with threats: You both do not understand the policies you quote and further are in violation of WP:CIVILITY. Strebe (talk) 23:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Behrmann projection SW.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on October 16, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-10-16. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:45, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Done. As always, thanks, Chris Woodrich! Strebe (talk) 02:59, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

## Flat Earth

What do you mean? "There is no "advocacy". It's in the lede because it's what people might often be looking for when coming to this article." They are looking for information from a religious group that wants to change history and promoted their own view of science? They are an intelligent design advocacy group. This is pseudoscience garbage disguised as science. Lipsquid (talk) 16:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

"We believe that in creating and preserving the universe God has endowed it with contingent order and intelligibility, the basis of scientific investigation." Lipsquid (talk) 16:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
You are ranting, Lipsquid. The source isn’t the site the talk was hosted on. The source is Russell, and there’s nothing in it about intelligent design—and even if there were, that wouldn’t have been an excuse to delete it, since it’s irrelevant to the topic. Get a grip, man. Strebe (talk) 17:22, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Not ranting, if it has another source, then use it. It still doesn't change the fact that a clarification of the view of one religion at allegedly one point in time, does not belong in the lede. Do Muslims get to clarify their view in the lede? Do the Chinese get to clarify their view in the lede? None of this matters to the central part of the article which is that at various times, various people have believed, or do believe, the earth is flat. I did not change it in the body of the article which is where it belongs. ASA3.org is definitely an advocacy group. I have complete grip of my faculties including the ability to articulate a position with logic.  :) Lipsquid (talk) 17:32, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

FYI: I have started an ANI discussion about this incident. LjL (talk) 21:20, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Eckert II projection SW.JPG is schedule to be Picture of the Day on November 1, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-11-01. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:36, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

## Rhumblines, Windroses and Portolan

Hi Strebe, seems like an interesting conversation going on here that you might be the (informed) third person in the discussion - so it can be sorted out?

EdwardLane (talk) 12:49, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for alerting me, EdwardLane. I have chimed in. Strebe (talk) 15:28, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Vertical perspective SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on November 29, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-11-28. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:46, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

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## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Gall–Peters projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on December 15, 2015. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2015-12-15. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:49, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

## Exaplanation

Please use your edit summaries for explanations when reverting. Thank you. Judist (talk) 15:19, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

## Gall–Peters projection

Hello, Strebe. I'm coming to you since you seem to be a knowledgeable person involved with the article. I tried to read the Controversies section, but had difficulty with the sequence of events because of references to "the previous century" and "twenty years earlier" with no date given as the starting point. I think I've figured it out, but it would probably be better for someone better versed in the topic to tweak that paragraph/section. Cheers, Awien (talk) 13:33, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Bonne projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on January 7, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-01-07. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:35, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

I rearranged it slightly and it’s ready to go now. Thanks, Chris Woodrich! Strebe (talk) 20:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Stereographic projection SW.JPG is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on January 23, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-01-23. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:52, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Van der Grinten projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on February 10, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-02-10. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:14, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

## Map projection edit

Hi there. Someone reported on the IRC that in that article section titles were appended by  links that were the same size as the section headings themselves, with no space in between. We were trying to account for why that is, and removing {{rp|1}} did the trick of restoring normalcy. --Mareklug talk 15:39, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Was that problem reported against mobile, Mareklug? I don’t see any problem on desktop. In any case, page numbers are important. :-\ Strebe (talk) 20:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

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## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Cylindrical equal-area projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on February 27, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-02-27. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello Chris Woodrich. I made an important correction as requested below. Thanks! Strebe (talk) 10:11, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

## POTD problem

In the POTD mentioned in the previous section, the picture text doesn't match the picture. It says "Cylindrical projections stretch distances east-west ..." and goes on about north–south compression. But the only visible example is a map whose most noticeable feature is an Africa stretched north to south, not east to west. The rectangles are 15 by 15 degrees, so they would be squares near the equator without north–south or east–west compression. So can we reword the description to match the picture? Art LaPella (talk) 03:37, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Good point, Art LaPella. I have made a correction to the template. Strebe (talk) 10:12, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Wagner VI projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on March 13, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-03-13. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:40, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for your tireless work, Chris Woodrich! Strebe (talk) 03:07, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Ecker IV projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on April 3, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-04-03. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:07, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Peirce quincuncial projection SW 20W.JPG is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on April 14, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-04-14. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:44, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Azimuthal equidistant projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on May 19, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-05-19. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:19, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Hammer projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on June 6, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-06-06. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

## edit warring and ownership behavior....

hello. You may have had a valid point about wrong placement, in the paragraph about earth (possibly), but that's why the more respectful edit would be to simply re-locate to the more apropos paragraph, just before...but you didn't do that, because you just don't like or want the phrase "perfect sphere" in any sense, even when said to be "commonly called" etc...anywhere anyhow. And that's ownership activity, and hogging, mainly for "I don't like" reasons, but always given front excuses of "redundant" and "not accurate" or 'not needed' or whatever. But look up NO OWN.... Seriously. TOO many contributors on Wikipedia commit that, and always deny they're doing it of course. This is a wiki, and your arrogant ownership and bullying behavior I won't tolerate, and I will report. This was MARK'S own wording... You have no business deleting stuff you don't like.... Non-valid removal restored. see article Talk... If the statement was not in the best paragraph, that's a valid point, but deleting it completely instead of relocating it better, with the excuse of "repetition" is not valid cuz YOU JUST DON'T LIKE "PERFECT SPHERE" anywhere in the article. That's really what it boils down to, despite Mark's comments and points on Talk. No consensus against putting Mark's compromise suggestion. Anyway, I did better placement...instead of wholesale removal. Redzemp (talk) 19:08, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Redzemp, how is it that you don’t recognize that your complaints of NO OWN and edit warring apply just as well to you? Stay off my Talk page. I’m tired of your abusive accusations, your time wasting, and the fact that you’re wrong, over and over and over. I will delete any further edits you make here. Strebe (talk) 19:24, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Strebe, although I agree with your reverts, you should cut back on them. You appear to be in violation of WP:3RR and are in danger of getting blocked for edit warring, especially because there is already a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring about Redzemp's edit-warring where your own edits have also been mentioned. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:03, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, David Eppstein. Strebe (talk) 22:11, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

## Warned for edit warring at Spheroid

You've been warned for edit warring per the outcome of this complaint. Your reverts of User:Redzemp are not exempt from 3RR. I recommend you take a break from editing the article and limit yourself to the talk page. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 13:27, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, EdJohnston. Censure accepted. Strebe (talk) 16:57, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:American Polyconic projection.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on July 8, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-07-08. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:23, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Gall Stereographic projection SW.JPG is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on July 23, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-07-23. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:57, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Equirectangular projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on August 9, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-08-09. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Done! Cheers, and keep up the fine work, Chris Woodrich. Strebe (talk) 21:01, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi Strebe it's me again, has the progress on that request any closer to being finished ?? Drax90 (talk) 16:49, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Lambert azimuthal equal-area projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on September 7, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-09-07. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:25, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

## POTD notification

Hi Strebe,

Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Lambert conformal conic projection SW.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on September 21, 2016. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2016-09-21. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:51, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

## Web Mercator

I'm new to editing in Wikipedia - and I welcome you suggestion that I take my comments to the TALK section for this article. I ask you to have an open mind when you read my comments...

I will tell you up front that I have been in personal contact with two of the USGS authors of the Journal Publication "Implications of Web Mercator and Its Use in Online Mapping" found in reference 2 of the Web Mercator article. The feedback I have from them is there is nothing wrong with the Web Mercator projection. The sense is - it is appropriate for its intended use - internet or mobile mapping - because it is quick.

Probably over a billion people use the projection every day on Bing, Google Maps, Waze and many others - and they all get to their locations... The position that there are inherent location errors associated with the projection have simply not be technically substantiated...

There is no technical evidence to justify the statement in the first paragraph under Properties that errors up to 35KM are possible. The Web Mercator projection is an EXACT mathematical projection of the WGS84 ellipsoid from 3D to 2D using the equations found in EPSG:3857. A user viewing a properly created Web Mercator projection on a web or mobile mapping device can derive the exact WGS84 ellipsoidal coordinates of the location specified on the screen by the software working backward from the X&Y value indicated for that location on the screen on the Web Mercator projection. The is no error.

I believe this misconception that Web Mercator has errors follows from the train of thought that the Web Mercator projection uses the same equations used to project a sphere onto a cylinder tangent to the sphere at the equator. The projection of a sphere onto a cylinder which is tangent at the equator can be achieved both graphically (think light bulb at center of the sphere) and mathematically - using equations from EPSG:3785. The Web Mercator projection cannot be achieved graphically... It should be considered an abstract projection (and there are an infinite number of possible abstract projections) in that it can only be produced mathematically. The Web Mercator projection can not be "graphically" created from an ellipsoid with a cylinder tangent to the equator... It is created using the equations from EPSG:3857 - which happen to be the same equations as found in EPSG:3785. But - it is not a spherical projection of an ellipsoid (there is no sphere in Web Mercator)... It is a mathematical projection of the WGS84 ellipsoid into a 2D space - which happens to use the same equations which mathematically represent the graphical projection of a sphere onto a cylinder which is tangent to the sphere at the equator... Both the Web Mercator and the Mercator Projection (where the "e" is not zero) of the WGS84 ellipsoid "stretch" in the Y direction as one moves away from the equator. The Web Mercator stretches in Y slightly more than the Mercator projection as the polar diameter being slightly shorter than the equatorial diameter of the WGS84 ellipsoid is not taken into account in this mathematical projection. The only way a user may possibly generate a 37 KM error is if the user incorrectly attempts to combine them in the same X&Y coordinate plane - and then goes on to make more mistakes. Take a look at the website in the first external link I have provided. In the introduction section - take a look at the map projections shown under the link for "Three Different Map Projections of the United States". The projections appear offset - but there is no error in the two conformal projections... An uneducated user of the two projections may be able to generate some errors in his or her calculations - but there is no error per say in the projections themselves...

Much of this mis-information regarding the Web Mercator projection seems to follow from the publication found in reference 1 of the Web Mercator article.

Figure A2 in Appendix A-6 of this document misrepresents the facts regarding the Mercator and Web Mercator projection. There is absolutely no location errors from either of the projections. The X&Y coordinate axis which is needed to plot these two projections in the 2D plane was left out. There should be separate 50 and 60 degree latitude lines for each projection in that figure... Again - there is no error in either of the projections - other than the typical distortions which occur when one project a 3D object into the 2D realm.

There are ample examples that the Web Mercator projection yields the correct WGS84 latitude and longitude... One of many is found in the second external link I have provided below.

The reference to the EPSG comments regarding the Web Mercator projection are also suspect (not the references to them - but the comments themselves) - which is a topic of another effort to resolve...

This is plain and simple math. There are no location errors associated with the Web Mercator projection. I challenge you to provide ONE example of a location found in a Web Mercator projection yielding a latitude and longitude which is not within meters of the actual WGS84 coordinates of that location (pick out a survey marker visible in Google Maps)... Pick a spot in Northern England... Unless you can demonstrate there is an actual error - I believe this article needs to be revised...

1. ^ Monmonier, Mark (2004). Rhumb Lines and Map Wars: A Social History of the Mercator Projection p. 57. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press.