User talk:TharkunColl

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Ireland[edit]

Well, I dunno about third revert, but in any case, I'll leave it to discussion at WP:RSN and elsewhere. There is no problem with listing the Irish Free State as a former Dominion, because it was so described at the time. However, listing it as a former Realm is problematic. We need a source that isn't synthesised saying that the Irish Free State was a Realm. Do you see my point? It would be helpful if you could address this on the article talk page. Besides, we still need a source. There isn't one in the article, and continually reinserting material identified as unsourced isn't helpful unless you actually add a source. --Pete (talk) 23:37, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

The term "realm" is exactly equivalent to "dominion" in this context and has no separate legal existence. Please bear in mind that the style of a monarch is a matter for the royal prerogative, and has no force in law other than what it purports to have, namely, a title. ðarkuncoll 23:49, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
I disagree on the equivalence of the two terms. Nevertheless, we need a source. The article currently has no source at all. If you think the article needs Ireland included, would you consider adding a source? The best official source we have is from the Queen: A Commonwealth Realm is a country which has The Queen as its Monarch.[1] Note the use of the capitalised "Realm". Ireland and India never had the Queen as their monarch, and it would be synthesis to extend the official definition beyond what is stated. Previous monarchs never supported any similar definition - they referred to Dominions. This usage postdates Queen Elizabeth II's accession in1952. The long series of changes marking the transitions from Empire to Commonwealth and the post-war decolonisation activity, not to mention ongoing movement towards republicanism means that we cannot regard the relationship of monarch to nation as somehow preserved in aspic. What applied in 1913 does not necessarily hold true in 2013. And vice versa. The Dominions of 1931 are not the Realms of 2013. --Pete (talk) 00:12, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
There is no legal definition of "realm", as I pointed out above. It is merely a descriptive term that is applied to the dominions. Evolving legal status is another matter entirely, and has no bearing on the title. For example, although Canada and Australia (and arguably New Zealand) obtained virtually complete sovereignty as recently as the 1980s, many of the smaller, younger realms have yet to undergo an equivalent process. ðarkuncoll 00:26, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
My reading of the passage on the Queen's website indicates that she does not share your opinion. But if we have no valid source, hey we have no article! I'm grateful for your opinion, of course, but what we really need is a source. A reliable source. You seem to have repeatedly inserted material that was identified as unsourced. Could you fix this, please? --Pete (talk) 00:39, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
The Queen's opinion does not have the force of law. Nor, indeed, does the opinion of those who wrote her website, which I'd be surprised if she's even read in any great depth. I have inserted no extra material into the article, I merely replaced what was unilaterally removed. ðarkuncoll 12:36, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
You reinserted material which was identified as unsourced. If you have a source, please identify it, or remove the unsourced material. Thanks. --Pete (talk) 12:43, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
If you want to change a long-established article it's you who need to provide sources, and to convince other editors. ðarkuncoll 12:59, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm saying that there aren't any sources. I can't find any, nor can you obviously. I can't provide sources that do not exist. The material I removed is unsourced. You inserted unsourced material. I can't put it plainer than that. --Pete (talk) 13:11, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

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List of Roman/Byzantine Emperors[edit]

I know I'm a little late, but I was reading the talk page for List of Roman Emperors today and found myself agreeing with your suggestion that it should be merged with the List of Byzantine Emperors. I very much liked your arguments, I thought they were well made. I don't konw if you keep up with Wikipedia all that much anymore and I'm not sure there's much I could do at this point, but I'd love to help get your proposal pushed through. I Feel Tired (talk) 17:31, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

St. Albans Cross[edit]

I see you have reverted my edit to the Mercia page. I was wondering what your source was for those colours for the St. Albans cross? http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/event/st-albans-day/ and https://britishcountyflags.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/insert-image-9-tam-castle-2.jpg?w=640 and http://www.stalbans.gov.uk/sitetools/app-error.aspx?aspxerrorpath=/default.aspx would all suggest different. Thanks. Cdh1984 (talk) 08:14, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

The earliest illustration of St Alban's Cross is found in John Speed's The Theatre of the Empire of Great Britaine of 1610/1611, and uses light blue:
http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/8939/Britain_As_It_Was_Devided_in_the_tyme_of_the_EnglisheSaxons_especially/Speed.html
The darker blue version was invented by the Flag Institute, a private organisation with no legal authority, in 2014, because its internal rules do not allow identical registrations, and St Albans City Council had already been using the lighter version. This has no bearing on the traditional flag of Mercia, which predates the use of the St Alban's Cross by the City of St Albans. The photo of the flag flying from Tamworth Castle may be affected by light condidtions and is therefore a very unreliable guide, but in any case it is clearly lighter than the very dark version proposed by the Flag Institute. See here for a much better example:
http://www.tamworthherald.co.uk/Talks-held-Tamworth-joining-massive-Greater/story-26628582-detail/story.html
TharkunColl (talk) 09:10, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
If a photo may be affected by light conditions then surely a map from 1610 may be subject to fading. It appears to be the same blue as used on all the coats of arms but it is still not sky blue. The Tamworth sign certainly not this shade, even if it is lighter than the one used by the Flag Institute. Perhaps a compromise like this one would be more accurate: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Arms_of_Edward_the_Confessor.svg ? Cdh1984 (talk) 13:11, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Saint_Alban%27s_cross_(corrected_blue).svg ? Cdh1984 (talk) 13:36, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
If you look at the other colours on the map, you'll see that there's no evidence of fading. In any case, it's not the job of editors of Wikipedia to propose compromises in the manner you suggest (a compromise regarding the form of words used in an article is different, for instance, but what you're suggesting is actually the creation a completely new design, which is, in any case, still darker than the John Speed illustration and the flag on the official Welcome to Tamworth sign). The basic fact is that the Flag Institute is not an authoritative source, but a private organisation. The best I can suggest is for you to add a new, short paragraph to the "Symbols" section of the article, showing their proposed new flag, but making it clear that it is not the traditional design, but rather a new, deliberate creation. TharkunColl (talk) 13:45, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
You still haven't provided a source for the shade of blue currently being used on the article. How is my suggestion any more of "new deliberate creation" than the sky blue one you are insisting is the "traditional design"? Cdh1984 (talk) 13:58, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
The ultimate source for all renditions of Saint Alban's Cross, not just on Wikipedia but everywhere, for centuries, is the first known (and certainly the earliest surviving) illustration of it, John Speed's atlas. It's not sky blue, it's the best representation in hex colour co-ordinates of the original printer's ink. TharkunColl (talk) 14:10, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
What makes you say that is the "best representation"? The blue on John Speed's map is clearly darker than the one being used on wikipedia whereas the yellow looks closer to white. Cdh1984 (talk) 14:19, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

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