User talk:The Traditionalist

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Apology and thanks: Baron Sugar of Clapton[edit]

I think this is one that will run and run for Baron Sugar of Clapton: the comma, we agreed, was the sticking point. I don't know where you're from but Alan Sugar is a well-known figure in the UK for hosting The Apprentice as well as doing the Amstrad (Alan Michael Sugar Trading) line of 8-bit and 16-bit machines in the 80s and early nineties. (Actually I have a Sinclair 128 or whatever he called it when he bought that line of machines, and it still works rather well, and have some games for it, but it's in a box somewhere in the mulyhegy/workshop). I am sorry of that is patronising you, but I don't know where you're from or would know that.

All I do know is that you contribute an enormous amount of good work to Wikipedia, and I sincerely thank you for it. I tend to argue very vigorously, but I hope always politely: Neither of us swore, neither of us had a spat, we are arguing the case not a personal attack, May that long continue, I shall not always agree with you, but if I feel differently from you I will say so. I don't win very often, but when I do, it tends to be with a WP:SNOWBALL when I have hit the nail exactly on the thumb.

Unfortunately something said face to face with a smile is often taken the wrong way written. I know that, but I still do it – one of my many faults. I can only apologise for that since the way to achieve consensus is through discussion (or argument, i don't make much distinction between the two words) and that is exactly what we are doing. I was a bit annoyed that something listed yesterday was retargeted without discussion. We need consensus and the way to get that is through discussion/argument, and I am glad your intelligent contributions at RfD help that process.

So I can only say sorry again if I offended you. Please keep going. You are a credit to Wikipedia and your listings at RfD are very valuable, to make this encyclopaedia better. I will disagree with you again, I am sure, but never personal: it's only what makes WP better. Si Trew (talk) 06:33, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
For getting all those redirects! Great job. JZCL 19:52, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Guidance on commas after Jr. and Sr.[edit]

Following the closure of a recent RfC you participated in, I have started an RfC on the separate but related issue of commas after Jr. and Sr.. Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) § RfC: Guidance on commas after Jr. and Sr. and feel free to comment there. Thanks! sroc 💬 06:03, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Blimey you are in a hurry[edit]

I am leaving some of your noms at WP:RFD alone not because I haven't read them but they go delete by default, and for me to bung in, even to agree with you, makes them contentious in the strict sense of the discussion. Some are so loopy, you are damned right to list them, but I am standing back on purpose. Si Trew (talk) 11:17, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

@SimonTrew: Agreed!--The Theosophist (talk) 04:21, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

My old user name[edit]

My old user name was BigDT. I changed it years ago because of real-world privacy concerns. Please remove it from your AN request - it has nothing to do with what you are trying to achieve. The page does not exist here. Rather, non-existent user pages now show the corresponding page at meta. If you delete your own user page, but have a user page at meta, then the meta page will show through. --B (talk) 00:36, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

@B: Done.--The Theosophist (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, but can you just remove the sentence completely? There is no need for action on that page or for attention to be called to it. I have removed the protection so that it will not show up in the database report that you are running. --B (talk) 00:43, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
@B: (e.c.) Sure. I thought that the removal of the name would be sufficient and that the rest had to remain for archival purposes.--The Theosophist (talk) 00:46, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. To answer your question about archiving, while it is generally preferred to archive rather than delete, there is no iron-clad rule and certainly if there is a good reason to remove something, then that's an exception to the general preference to archive rather than delete. And in any event, as a general rule, it is acceptable to edit or remove your own comments if nobody has replied to them (after someone has replied, you obviously don't want to do anything that might mislead about what it was they replied to). --B (talk) 00:46, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Lord Mountevans[edit]

Hi The Traditionalist

Thanks for your assistance ref Maj-Gen Egerton & you may have spotted my flagging up another article requiring attention, namely that of Alderman The Lord Mountevans, now Jeffrey Evans, 4th Baron Mountevans? It would be good to know that having made best endeavours the article is now or will be correctly styled! Many thanks & awaiting your advice.

M Mabelina (talk) 01:08, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

  • Many thanks & how does one get the language links to work in the new article?
    PS. I'm having probs with Wiki image licensing - do you know about such matters? Very many thanks again. M Mabelina (talk) 02:00, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Lina Wertmuller[edit]

I actually wasn't paying attention to Wertmuller, it was Alice Ghostley who caught my eye as she was born in 1923, not 1926. It came out after she died. Wertmuller's year of birth has been given as 1926 for as long as I can remember but that doesn't mean anything, I have come to realize, considering other cases, although people usually make themselves younger not older.

If Wertmuller's year of birth remains debatable we can just add footnotes. Yours, Quis separabit? 16:36, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


Sir, I am not sure if this is in keeping with the etiquette, but having seen that you had joined battle with Zacwill16 over the Baroness/Lady question in the Baroness Thatcher’s infobox, I wanted to wish you a successful outcome in the contest. Contributing as I do very seldom, I thought the following observations would be better lodged in your hands. It seems to me that Zacwill16 fails to appreciate the different contexts in which “the Baroness” and “Lady” are used, and that edit summaries are unlikely to teach him. In those contexts where we call ordinary people “Mr Surname” (context 1) no doubt he is right in thinking that her Ladyship preferred the correct “Lady Thatcher” to the questionable “Baroness Thatcher”. Yet that user appears not to realise that, in those contexts where we call ordinary people “Firstname Surname” (context 2), it by no means follows that her Ladyship desired incorrectly to be called “the Lady Thatcher” where only “the Baroness Thatcher” is correct. To take his indiscriminate reasoning to its logical extent, if hypothetically the Countess Mountbatten of Burma got tired of uninformed people calling her “Countess Mountbatten” in context 1 and desired to be called “Lady Mountbatten”, Zacwill16 would insist on calling her in context 2, and therefore in her infobox, “the Lady Mountbatten of Burma”, which perhaps you agree would be in the worst possible taste. Allow me therefore to express my support, for what it is worth, for “The Right Honourable The Baroness Thatcher” in the infobox, wishing you well again in taking on that Lochness monster, Zacwill116, and better success at any rate than Mr Robin S Taylor has had, and believe me, sir, your very obliged humble servant (talk) 01:43, 15 August 2015 (UTC).

Indeed I had very little success at fighting Zac's madness (which definitely does not appear to be limited to the Baroness Thatcher here). I must congratulate you on what so far resembles success. Robin — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:19, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Infobox names[edit]

Hi. I've reverted again your change to the info box of Joseph Lister, 1st Baron Lister. Could you please explain your thinking on this edit? Thanks. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 14:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Could you show me where this standard practice is documented? It might make sense for a British peer when their notability is mostly about being a peer, but it makes little sense for people like Lister, whose notability has almost nothing to do with him being made a peer in later life. Thanks. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 19:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

MOS:IDENTITY is being revisited: How should Wikipedia refer to transgender individuals before and after their transition?[edit]

You are being contacted because you contributed to a recent discussion of MOS:IDENTITY that closed with the recommendation that Wikipedia's policy on transgender individuals be revisited.

Two threads have been opened at the Village Pump:Policy. The first addresses how the Manual of Style should instruct editors to refer to transgender people in articles about themselves (which name, which pronoun, etc.). The second addresses how to instruct editors to refer to transgender people when they are mentioned in passing in other articles. Your participation is welcome. Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:26, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Irish general election, 1918[edit]

Please do not move articles without checking whether there was previous discussion of the title, as you did with Irish general election, 1918. Controversial moves can only be done after an RM. --Scolaire (talk) 09:43, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Help required on wikicommons template please[edit]

Hi looking to get the image below on the same template as your,_Engineer.jpg

Any help appreciated

Ukengineer (talk) 13:27, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

More lists of freemasons[edit]

Hi, thank you for your superb work on List of Presidents of the United States who were Freemasons. I'd be grateful again if you would consider similar work on the smaller categories with a similar decision at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_October_24#Category:Monarchs_who_were_Freemasons. – Fayenatic London 00:11, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Con Keegan deletion[edit]

  • 2015-12-21T12:21:17 Deryck Chan (talk | contribs | block) deleted page Con Keegan (Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 December 2#Con Keegan closed as delete) (view/restore)

Fixed. Thank you for notifying me via Twinkle. Occasionally a connection error occurs in one page of a batch deletion and makes me miss a page, my apologies. Deryck C. 12:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Life peer moves[edit]

I noticed you've been making quite a few of these, so thought you might wish to express an opinion at Talk:Jock Stirrup, Baron Stirrup. I hope this message doesn't count as WP:Canvassing. Opera hat (talk) 13:01, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Regarding these moves, I was wondering if you had considered previous conversations about naming conventions found on individual talk pages? For instance, on Talk:Richard Spring, Baron Risby, it was decided some years ago that the page title should include Risby's title. Happy New year! WatermillockCommon (talk) 20:55, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
Happy new year! I have to confess that I did not check. Instead, I followed my personal judgment. Anyone should feel free to revert me or open a new discussion on a talk page.--The Traditionalist (talk) 20:59, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Moving a page discussion[edit]

Hello! There is a discussion on whether to move page George Young (politician) to George Young, Baron Young of Cookham. I wish that you could add your opinion to the discussion. --Editor FIN (talk) 05:02, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


I see a number of CSD nominations e.g.:

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )/Arthur Seldon Lloyd

I am familiar to some extent with the editor’s history but not quite following what’s going on here. I’m happy to delete them if they truly are noncontroversial but I’d like to understand what is happening.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:03, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:21, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Will this do as a clerihew[edit]

Neelix was
A guy because
He got in the media
For editing Wikipedia
Years later was found
Most were unsound
He lost his fame
And sits in shame

Not a very good one but at least (I think) it is a clerihew Si Trew (talk) 14:46, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@SimonTrew: It does count as a clerihew, I suppose, even though the perfect clerihew's first verse ends with the subject's name.--The Traditionalist (talk) 14:53, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Sheesh you're a hard bargainer I had trouble not to make it into a limerick. I don't think that the last of the first stanza has to be the chap's name, it is usually the first, but I better check up my copy of Biography for Beginners. Si Trew (talk) 15:07, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Edmund Clerihew Bentley
Invented a verse form of wit
And this is it.
So had it been called by his first name
We would simply be calling them Edmunds
Which doesn't work at all
Si Trew (talk) 15:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
{edit conflict) @SimonTrew: From our article: The first line contains, and may consist solely of, the subject's name. According to a letter in the Spectator in the 1960s, Bentley said that a true clerihew has to have the name "at the end of the first line", as the whole point was the skill in rhyming awkward names. Every single clerihew in Biography for Beginners is of this form.--The Traditionalist (talk) 15:13, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
I can see why you take the nick. I remember over at the Usenet Oracle as was then called asking a question:
I enjoy reading verse by Ed Lear
BUt something just strikes me as queer
Why the first line's repeated, and though I feel cheated
I enjoy reading verse by Ed Lear

To which I think the answer was

It's a known fact in verse composition
That good verse requires repetition
Though you may not enjoy it
You cannot avoid it
It's a known fact in verse composition

This was many days before the Interweb was something normal people got at home. In fact I think that reply and you can check I think was through Through the defence company that is now BAe Systems. How times change. Si Trew (talk) 15:19, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

This is my absolute favourite. Someone asked the Oracle why champagne spills out the top or somesuch, and he answer by Kate (The Great) was thus:
When champagne is in the bottle it is highly pressurised
You open it it's not alas (I doubt that you're surprised)
The liquid then contains more CO2 than p'praps it oughta
The question then remains: Where will the gas escape the waughta
The answer: It prefers to leave at nucleation sites.
And glasses, being glass you see've got scads of 'em like mites
And that is why the bubbles form in legions at the bottom
It's sites, the gases all adore 'em and they know the glass has got 'em

That is just bloody brilliant and whoever Kate (The Great) she only used that to kind pun herself is or was, that is absolutely brilliant I think. Si Trew (talk)

thank you[edit]

Thank you for your support over at WP:ANI. I don't really mind if I get banned or not but that was a very kind comment. We are not always going to agree that is why things are achieved by consensus. But I really am fed up with this ANI because all I am trying to do like you are is make the encylopaedia better. I think with a lot of these Neelix ones it hurts the search engine, I am no WP:DELETIONIST but I want readers to be able to find information as quick as they can. I am probably queering my own pitch in saying thank you to you it sounds a bit like we are in cahoots but I genuinely mean it, it means a lot to me. Si Trew (talk) 10:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

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I avoid posting at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll, but I agree with them. Your userpage states clearly that you believe in the few having a boot on the neck of the many. That is the antithesis of what Wikipedians want in an administrator. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

While you're thinking, have a beer![edit]

Export hell seidel steiner.png Being an admin is no big deal. There is so much you can do here in dispute resolution, mentoring, etc without "officially" burdening yourself. Some of the best admins I know are not admins! Cheers mate. Irondome (talk) 20:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much, my good fellow!--The Traditionalist (talk) 22:53, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Moving a page discussion[edit]

Hello! I have proposed that David William Brewer be moved to Sir David Brewer. Could you give your opinion on the discussion? --Editor FIN (talk) 12:17, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, The Traditionalist. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:The Lord Olivier.jpg[edit]


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