User talk:Thryduulf

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Stubsensor award.jpg
For your help with April 21, 2005 Stubsensor cleanup project you are hereby given the Stubsensor award.
I hereby award you the RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar for your heroic efforts in repairing and repelling the Willy on Wheels vandal — Bratschetalk 5 pillars (KC)
This PSY is awarded for being polite, courteous, and extremely helpful to myself and other users, and as such bieng a blessing for good mental health. Awarded by PhatePunk 22:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
For your excellent contributions to Wikipedia - it is those little things that make all the difference :-) --HappyCamper 20:02, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
I am giving you this banner star for all of your work at WP:RFD - Tideflat (talk) 01:58, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
The Redirect Barnstar
is hereby awarded to Thryduulf for all the work put into contributing at Redirects for Discussion and maintaining the navigational parts of the project. Quiet background work that very few see, yet it has a great effect on the projects readers! Thanks for your work in the area, Taelus (talk) 23:22, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
The Redirect Barnstar
is hereby awarded to you, Thryduulf, for closing nearly an entire page of discussions, but more importantly, for all of the other thankless jobs that you do. Arbitrarily0 (talk) 21:26, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to echo these thanks, as I think we are some of the only admins who set foot in RfD these days :P. Thanks for helping with the backlog, all the best. --Taelus (talk) 13:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Fair and Helpful
Thank you so much for helping me with an article (I'm a beginner.) I have no idea what I'm doing but you helped to keep my article up after it was deleted. You also checked back up on it when the references were deleted, I just checked and saw you even helped me on listing them too, I wasn't sure how to do that either. Anyway, thank you. :] Ohthegunsofbrixton (talk) 18:33, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
For exhibiting rational judgement on a certain list which caused considerable overreaction and worse case scenario concerns. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 19:07, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The Redirect Barnstar
Thanks for your (re)-explanation of why it [the Selby Wall redirect] was pointing where it was and why it should point to where it's now pointing Tonywalton Talk 00:11, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Redirect Barnstar Hires.png
The Redirect Barnstar
I hereby award User:Thryduulf this shiny Redirect Barnstar for their excellent work at WP:RFD. Lenticel (talk) 08:57, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Vitruvian Barnstar Hires.png
The Technical Barnstar
For your unfailing patience and kindness dealing with VisualEditor related problems and the users struggling with them :). (also for the fantastic car analogy). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:00, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Original Barnstar Hires.png
The Original Barnstar
I appreciate I already gave you a barnstar for it, but I've just looked at the feedback page for the first time since stepping off my flight, and wow: you deserve another one :). Thanks for all you've done for the VE project thus far. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:59, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Working Man's Barnstar Hires.png
The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
For sterling work above and beyond the call of duty at WP:VE/F. You're always there, logging defects, updating replies and always with politeness and calm. NtheP (talk) 09:51, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

thinking of options
Thank you for quality pictures uploaded, for nominating to the news, for taking care of redirects and projects, for helpful proposals and thinking of options ("I can think of at least two options"), - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:34, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Real Life Barnstar.jpg
The Real Life Barnstar
Yay! You're here at the [Wikimedia UK] office! Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 15:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
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Survey King!
You put absolutely hours of work into [the WMUK Members' Survey] and I am so so grateful! Really looking forward to finding out what worked and what didn't and making the results useful to the chapter! Thank you so much! Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 12:14, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Brilliant Idea Barnstar Hires.png
The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
Arbitration Committee cases are inherently complicated matters. That your analysis of the case resulted in a suggestion widely accepted by participants and arbitrators alike, demonstrates it to be a brilliant idea. Congratulations! MarshalN20 | Talk 14:51, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Peace Barnstar 6.png
The Barnstar of Diplomacy
Y'know what...
...Here's a barnstar. Consider this a token of my appreciation, on behalf of the project as a whole, for your contributions to this RfC, and for summarising a horribly complicated discussion into something that people could understand (and which slightly lessened my headache in closing it!). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:24, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Special Barnstar Hires.png
The Special Barnstar
Thanks for the MASSIVE amount of work and time you put into the 2013 Membership Survey. It's really excellent and I hope its something [WMUK] builds on :-) Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 15:38, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Real Life Barnstar.jpg
The Real Life Barnstar
Thank you very much for all your hard work on Wikipedia Takes UCL last week. It was an event from which we've taken many lessons and I believe that a good number of people had a very positive experience from it thanks to you and the team you managed to coordinate. Here's to the next one! ToniSant (talk) 08:11, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Real Life Barnstar.jpg
The Real Life Barnstar
Chris, I'm indebted to you for your help at the Marjon event. Gil asked me to pass on her thanks in particular for your "excellent and clear explanations of the technical aspects of copyright". Next time I'm looking for helpers for an event, you'll be top of my list. Thanks again, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:21, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Photographer Barnstar.png
The Photographer's Barnstar
For your extra effort in providing photos for an article that another Wikipedian is working on. Exemplary teamwork! Face-smile.svg w.carter-Talk 17:12, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png
'The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
I've got to say, I've seen your comments about the place and you seem one of the more "rational observers" (if you'll pardon the pun) on the site. I think you have a good head on your shoulders. I wish others were like you! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:22, 24 October 2015 (UTC)



Do you respond only at the Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case or I can also ask make any related clarifications here? OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 10:45, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

All communication about current requests for arbitration needs to be made on the request page. Thryduulf (talk) 10:48, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). Legobot (talk) 00:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion[edit]


This is a notification to let you know that there is a requested move discussion ongoing at Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/April_2015_move_request#Requested_move. You are receiving this notification because you have previously participated in some capacity in naming discussions related to the article in question.

Thanks. And have a nice day. NickCT (talk) 18:55, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


OK ... first, thank you for working up the violence and killing stuff for me. Second.. I didn't realize you were an Arb on FB... so here's the rules. You can not block or ban me for what I say on FB. I just thought you were a good egg that had a really good perspective on life (still think that). We good? — Ched :  ?  03:54, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Yep :) Thryduulf (talk) 10:15, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Arb Cases[edit]

Must be a lucky batch you all are in; it seems like a long time since I've seen so many cases open (or likely to be open) at one time. Unfortunately though, as I just suggested here, there is a possibility of another one being added to that if community cannot resolve over the next couple of days or so. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:39, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment. Legobot (talk) 00:13, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Re: UK General Election 2015[edit]

You're more than welcome - it's nice to be recognised :) WilliamF1two (talk) 06:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: April 2015[edit]

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Project opera just published the sad news that Viva-Verdi died who loved Verdi's music, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:05, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Cite isbn[edit]

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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). Legobot (talk) 00:06, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Happy Adminversary[edit]

Happy Adminship from the Birthday Committee
Wikipedia Administrator.svg

Wishing Thryduulf a very happy adminversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee!

-- All the best: Rich Farmbrough02:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC).

Thank you Rich! Once again I had completely forgotten this anniversary - despite this one marking a decade of adminship :O Thryduulf (talk) 08:16, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Impressive! Keep going in fairness --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:14, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

East London meetups[edit]

Hi,I am sitting in an almost empty Waitrose Café, Canary Wharf, on a Wednesday evening. I wandered around looking for a suitable place for a meet up: Unfortunately the Starbucks outside the library shuts at 7:00 pm. I think this place would be fine - almost empty, reasonable price with free coffee if you buy something (i.e. a cake?). After all the talk on WMUK list I thought it would be better to do something. What I would suggest is perhaps an East London meetup on the last Wednesday of the month, starting wed 24 June. What do you think? Leutha (talk) 19:31, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

That sounds like a good plan. I can't guarantee to make it to the first one - that date is ringing bells for some reason, but I'll see what I can do :) Thryduulf (talk) 21:02, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Are you OK?[edit]

Are you OK old bean? Haven't seen you round much at WP:RFD. Come back, we need you! Si Trew (talk) 07:08, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

I was afkb for the last ~10 days of May and I've been catching up with ArbCom stuff (and other stuff off-wiki). I'll pop over to RfD when I get the chance though! Thryduulf (talk) 08:53, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor News #3—2015[edit]

Did you know?

When you click on a link to an article, you now see more information:

Screenshot showing the link tool's context menu

The link tool has been re-designed:

Screenshot of the link inspector

There are separate tabs for linking to internal and external pages.

The user guide has more information about how to use VisualEditor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has created new interfaces for the link and citation tools, as well as fixing many bugs and changing some elements of the design. Some of these bugs affected users of VisualEditor on mobile devices. Status reports are posted on The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.

A test of VisualEditor's effect on new editors at the English Wikipedia has just completed the first phase. During this test, half of newly registered editors had VisualEditor automatically enabled, and half did not. The main goal of the study is to learn which group was more likely to save an edit and to make productive, unreverted edits. Initial results will be posted at Meta later this month.

Recent improvements[edit]

Auto-fill features for citations are available at a few Wikipedias through the citoid service. Citoid takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. If Citoid is enabled on your wiki, then the design of the citation workflow changed during May. All citations are now created inside a single tool. Inside that tool, choose the tab you want (<citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-auto>, <citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-manual>, or <citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-reuse>). The cite button is now labeled with the word "Cite" rather than a book icon, and the autofill citation dialog now has a more meaningful label, "<Citoid-citeFromIDDialog-lookup-button>", for the submit button.

The link tool has been redesigned based on feedback from Wikipedia editors and user testing. It now has two separate sections: one for links to articles and one for external links. When you select a link, its pop-up context menu shows the name of the linked page, a thumbnail image from the linked page, Wikidata's description, and/or appropriate icons for disambiguation pages, redirect pages and empty pages. Search results have been reduced to the first five pages. Several bugs were fixed, including a dark highlight that appeared over the first match in the link inspector (T98085).  

The special character inserter in VisualEditor now uses the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki can also create a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Please read the instructions for customizing the list at Also, there is now a tooltip to describing each character in the special character inserter (T70425).

Several improvements have been made to templates. When you search for a template to insert, the list of results now contains descriptions of the templates. The parameter list inside the template dialog now remains open after inserting a parameter from the list, so that users don’t need to click on "Add more information" each time they want to add another parameter (T95696). The team added a new property for TemplateData, "Example", for template parameters. This optional, translatable property will show up when there is text describing how to use that parameter (T53049).

The design of the main toolbar and several other elements have changed slightly, to be consistent with the MediaWiki theme. In the Vector skin, individual items in the menu are separated visually by pale gray bars. Buttons and menus on the toolbar can now contain both an icon and a text label, rather than just one or the other. This new design feature is being used for the cite button on wikis where the Citoid service is enabled.

The team has released a long-desired improvement to the handling of non-existent images. If a non-existent image is linked in an article, then it is now visible in VisualEditor and can be selected, edited, replaced, or removed.

Let's work together[edit]

  • Share your ideas and ask questions at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.
  • The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, each Wednesday at 12:00 (noon) PDT (19:00 UTC). Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal. You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the Editing team's Q4 blocker project with the bug.
  • If your Wikivoyage, Wikibooks, Wikiversity, or other community wants to have VisualEditor made available by default to contributors, then please contact James Forrester.
  • If you would like to request the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.

Subscribe, unsubscribe or change the page where this newsletter is delivered at Meta. If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:31, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Notability (films)[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Notability (films). Legobot (talk) 00:08, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


Hello Thryduulf,

I don't know how closely you've followed the research project about VisualEditor, but since they will be moving into the data analysis phase before long, I wanted to personally ask a few "regulars" at WP:VEF to let me know if they’d seen anything unusual during the last week or two. (You're in the top 10 all-time editors at WP:VEF.) Anyway, if you've seen anything or have any thoughts on it, then please let me know. There's a thread open at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Test feedback if you want, or you can always leave a note at my talk page or send me e-mail.

I'm glad to hear that ArbCom isn't as soul-sucking as it looks like. Hang in there, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 06:27, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: May 2015[edit]

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Umbrella Revolution listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Umbrella Revolution. Since you had some involvement with the Umbrella Revolution redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. George Ho (talk) 05:13, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:No original research[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:No original research. Legobot (talk) 00:11, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Following up[edit]

Quick update on your question (since archived here): The devs aren't saying "no", at least to the 'search' aspect, but they do seem to be saying "not any time soon". So this will likely continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future (unless someone has a sudden flash of insight). As a workaround, you can keep a copy open in read-mode in another tab, and then search for something nearby your target in VisualEditor, but this is unfortunately going to be a pain for a while yet.  :-/ Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:44, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Thryduulf (talk) 08:58, 23 June 2015 (UTC)


I have been seeking help on this from User:Liz and also asking User:Doug Weller. Where is the correct venue for a formal motion, I have never requested one? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:25, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

That depends what motion you are seeking.
  • If it is in relation to a new matter, then request a new case with the comment that you are seeking a motion rather than a case.
  • If it is in relation to an open case, then you need to make the request on the pages of that case (on the workshop page if that is still open, ask a drafter of the case in question if it is not).
  • If it is in relation to a closed case then you need to raise a new request for clarification or amendment.
  • If it is relation to an open request for a case or an open request for clarification or amendment, make your request for a motion in your own section on the appropriate page.
In all cases you need to be as clear and concise as possible about what motion you want and why you believe it is necessary (including presenting or linking to evidence as appropriate).
If however the motion is asking for an arbitrator to recuse, WP:ARBPOL is very clear: Ask the arbitrator concerned on their talk page, giving your reasons why you think they should recuse. If they do not agree to recuse (or do not respond after a reasonable time) and you do not accept their reasoning then you can make a formal request of the rest of the committee who will decide whether the arbitrator concerned should or should not recuse, with their decision being final. Thryduulf (talk) 13:39, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you I really didn't know the only other place I'd seen the formal motion was the one for Salvio. At the outset of the case she was [approached] by User:Ched and I participated in (note I am opening this motion, I do not want to make it seem or sound like Ched agreed with that action, I'm pinging because I'm using his section as rationale). The sum was she will consider as the case goes on. There really is no point in rehashing her discussion at this point. I will message the drafting arbs are, I think it is Doug Weller, Roger Davies and Eurylas. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:46, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
  • FWIW - I have no objection to my previous request being referenced. I have posted the same at the HiaB talk page. — Ched :  ?  20:55, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom cases being brought against sitting members of the committee[edit]

A further example (including a "case filer with no standing" sidebar) from my past is Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Rodhullandemu in which an admin was sumarilly desysopped by one arbitrator from a secret meeting in which other editors attempted to interceed on the agrieved party's behalf. Hasteur (talk) 18:09, 27 June 2015 (UTC)


Hi Thryduulf, I tend to minimize side-effects so I'm very cautious with globalrangeblock. If you want, you can use your magic glasses to look for other subnets eligible for a block, since most of side effects should be here at Also thank you for revert at AN, I should write two hundred times "I won't answer him" on the blackboard ;)

--Vituzzu (talk) 15:20, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons. Legobot (talk) 00:02, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


Hello, Thryduulf. Please check your email – you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{YGM}} template.

Vordrak (talk) 14:36, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia Science Conference[edit]

Hi, this is another update on the Wikipedia Science Conference taking place in London on Wednesday 2nd and Thursday 3rd of September.

  • Booking has opened at just 29 pounds, including lunch on both days.
  • Take a look at the (pretty much final) programme if you haven’t seen it yet. With 18 plenary speakers - three from overseas - as well as the large unconference section, there’s a lot going on, and the Royal Society of Chemistry is sponsoring a wine reception in the evening.
  • We are also in the full swing of publicity. Emails have been, and are, going out to funders, scholarly societies, and university departments, but any additional promotion is appreciated. Please share a link, or tell colleagues in relevant fora. All publicity material for the conference is, of course, freely licenced for you to adapt.
  • After the conference there will be two hackathons: one Cambridge on the Friday, the other hosted by Wikimedia UK in London on the Saturday. These are being led by Daniel Mietchen and Stefan Kasberger. Follow the link for more details.

I hope you’re excited as I am about this event. Cheers, MartinPoulter (talk) 18:20, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: June 2015[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for July 10[edit]

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Propaganda[edit]

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Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Proposed decision[edit]

Here goes the next site ban for a female editor ... ChristopheT (talk) 15:06, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

The reasons for the ban are detailed on the page you mention, where you can clearly see that they are entirely unrelated to the editor's gender. Thryduulf (talk) 15:12, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
no disrespect - but I believe that with the current gender ratio in WP:EN (approx. 1:10) those decision are never entirely unrelated to the editors gender (I am not suggesting that Arbcom is explicitly biased - the bias is probably more 'system inherent' rather than explicit) . Anyways - there is some progress in the sense that this time some well connected editors also did get a slap on the wrist. ChristopheT (talk) 16:16, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm curious how would you suggest solving this, something like Rooney Rule? Is there a need for gender specific arbs to give the illusion of fitness? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 18:06, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure how your question relates to ChristopheT's post, but in general a more diverse arbcom would be a Good Thing. Before we can have that however, we need more women and editors from other under-represented groups to stand for election - in 2014 none of the serious candidates identified as female. If you have ideas for how to increase the candidate pool, please share them on an appropriate page (the committee talk page perhaps?). Thryduulf (talk) 22:12, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry that question was actually to User:ChristophThomas. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 01:02, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

@HiaB: we all know the numbers and are able to run them: even if WP would manage to improve the current retention rates for female editors by lets say 200% for the next 5 years WP:EN would -after those 5 years - still stand as a prime example for a gender inequality. ChristopheT (talk) 06:53, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
As much as we want to improve the gender balance, what we most need are users who positively contribute to the encyclopaedia. The findings of fact in the Lightbreather case demonstrate that this is not a description we can apply to her - indeed it is often said that disruption discourages women more than it does men and that is true regardless of who is doing the disrupting. Thryduulf (talk) 09:22, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
User:ChristophThomas, why do you think the women voices are that low? I seriously doubt that it's all because of gender inequality(which isn't to say there aren't some morons out there with outdated gender role ideas). I do not doubt that women do face harassment from some of the less enlightened but to say that it is pervasive when there are several examples of women that have risen in the "ranks" makes a harder sell. I actually disagree with things like the Rooney rule, not because I think they are bad either. I think that forcing people to change is much less conducive to actual change and progress. Every time a NFL team or damn near every time a head coaching job comes up who do they interview first? The candidate they have to interview, does that candidate generally get the job, 99 percent of the time no. It looks good on paper though, they went through the motions so they aren't racially biased right? No the underlying thoughts are still there they just wait and say those in private where the public can't hear. This is just a general thought on unequality not related to the case any any way other then it's a gender discussion. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:15, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
@ User:Hell in a Bucket I guess my point is : it would take some pretty radical and highly disruptive changes to address WP gender related bias (which - btw - is not limited number of edits, editors ect.) @ User:Thryduulf Sorry for taking your talk page hostage ... probably not the best place to have this discussion ...ChristopheT (talk) 10:07, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


Thanks for that. I won't be participating any longer, so there should be no trouble from my end. I felt obliged to set a few records straight which would have become (and probably now have been once again) obfuscated in the verbosity, but now I have no appetite to continue, so will allow the dubious portrayals to continue unopposed. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:40, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


Did you (the committee) review my email I sent a few days ago? It was regarding the viability of continued Ibans and clarification on some of the vague wording? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 23:52, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

If you are referring to the email with the subject "Proposed decision", Salvio responded asking that you raise your points on-wiki and noted they wouldn't be seen as a violation of the iban. I can't see any other recent messages from you, so if that isn't what you were referring to then it looks like we didn't receive it. Thryduulf (talk) 00:04, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
O ok I misunderstood thank you for the clarification. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 00:06, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous). Legobot (talk) 00:05, 23 July 2015 (UTC)


you're welcome to post or share the email I just sent - or keep private ... your call. — Ched :  ?  19:36, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Point of fact[edit]

It was never an admonishment, I voluntarily placed myself open to recall, and the community decided against me being de-sysoped. Even your diff shows that it was me doing this. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:05, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: I'm not a fan of admonishments as an Arbcom remedy, but one point of the above is interesting - in your view, if the discussion was not an admonishment, was there any outcome indicating disapproval? Or do you see the outcome of the recall thread as in fact an active endorsement of your interaction with Kww? -- Euryalus (talk) 21:15, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
I see the thread which I voluntarily initiated as being one that resulted in the community stating quite clearly that I should remain as an admin. The thread was a "recall" thread, not an "admonishment" thread. I don't believe anyone in their right mind would consider it to be an attempt to provide an "active endorsement" of my dealings with Kww but it certainly wasn't a community admonishment based on the idea that they could have admonished me and told me that they didn't trust me or want me to be an admin any longer, instead, they didn't. A few angry men (and women) issued comments, but it certainly didn't raise itself to the level of an Arbcom-style "admonishment". To claim otherwise is pure fiction. What should be acknowledged is that I did the right thing and opened up to the community. Simple, but until you read the discussions, I guess you just assume otherwise. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. -- Euryalus (talk) 21:43, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
In passing, I think a reading of the case as a whole does convey the view that your ANI thread was the right thing to do. Your seeking of community input was an excellent idea and is part of the reason why there are no other relevant remedies in the PD.
In my view the specific PD FoF was also based on the view that what the community did at ANI was admonish rather than Admonish (ie express some concern, without formally passing a resolution to that effect). But there's a rapidly diminishing return in pursuing this distinction any further. As admonitions are usually a waste of time, and as you don't in fact accept that one even occurred, I've now opposed the relevant FoF that claimed otherwise. -- Euryalus (talk) 00:45, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomy[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomy. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Gerrards Cross Tunnel[edit]

Unbelievable as it may seem 10 years down the line, but the HSE still haven't finished whatever it is they are doing and there is nothing in the press about any civil law matters. So there is nothing to update and I have removed the tag. Polequant (talk) 21:52, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor News #4—2015[edit]

Read this in another languageLocal subscription listSubscribe to the multilingual edition

Did you know?

You can add quotations marks before and after a title or phrase with a single click.

Select the relevant text. Find the correct quotations marks in the special character inserter tool (marked as Ω in the toolbar).

Screenshot showing the special character tool, selected text, and the special character that will be inserted

Click the button. VisualEditor will add the quotation marks on either side of the text you selected.

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You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use VisualEditor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team have been working on mobile phone support. They have fixed many bugs and improved language support. They post weekly status reports on Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving language support and functionality on mobile devices.


The team attended Wikimania 2015 in Mexico City. There they participated in the Hackathon and met with individuals and groups of users. They also made several presentations about VisualEditor and the future of editing.

Following Wikimania, we announced winners for the VisualEditor 2015 Translathon. Our thanks and congratulations to users Halan-tul, Renessaince, जनक राज भट्ट (Janak Bhatta), Vahe Gharakhanyan, Warrakkk, and Eduardogobi.

For interface messages (translated at, we saw the initiative affecting 42 languages. The average progress in translations across all languages was 56.5% before the translathon, and 78.2% after (+21.7%). In particular, Sakha improved from 12.2% to 94.2%; Brazilian Portuguese went from 50.6% to 100%; Taraškievica went from 44.9% to 85.3%; Doteli went from 1.3% to 41.2%. Also, while 1.7% of the messages were outdated across all languages before the translathon, the percentage dropped to 0.8% afterwards (-0.9%).

For documentation messages (on, we saw the initiative affecting 24 languages. The average progress in translations across all languages was 26.6% before translathon, and 46.9% after (+20.3%).  There were particularly notable achievements for three languages. Armenian improved from 1% to 99%; Swedish, from 21% to 99%, and Brazilian Portuguese, from 34% to 83%. Outdated translations across all languages were reduced from 8.4% before translathon to 4.8% afterwards (-3.6%).

We published some graphs showing the effect of the event on the Translathon page. Face-smile.svg Thank you to the translators for participating and the staff for facilitating this initiative.

Recent improvements[edit]

Auto-fill features for citations can be enabled on each Wikipedia. The tool uses the citoid service to convert a URL or DOI into a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. You can see an animated GIF of the quick, simple process at So far, about a dozen Wikipedias have enabled the auto-citation tool. To enable it for your wiki, follow the instructions at

Your wiki can customize the first section of the special character inserter in VisualEditor. Please follow the instructions at to put the characters you want at the top. 

In other changes, if you need to fill in a CAPTCHA and get it wrong, then you can click to get a new one to complete. VisualEditor can now display and edit Vega-based graphs. If you use the Monobook skin, VisualEditor's appearance is now more consistent with other software.  

Future changes[edit]

The team will be changing the appearance of selected links inside VisualEditor. The purpose is to make it easy to see whether your cursor is inside or outside the link. When you select a link, the link label (the words shown on the page) will be enclosed in a faint box. If you place your cursor inside the box, then your changes to the link label will be part of the link. If you place your cursor outside the box, then it will not. This will make it easy to know when new characters will be added to the link and when they will not.

On the English Wikipedia, 10% of newly created accounts are now offered both the visual and the wikitext editors. A recent controlled trial showed no significant difference in survival or productivity for new users in the short term. New users with access to VisualEditor were very slightly less likely to produce results that needed reverting. You can learn more about this by watching a video of the July 2015 Wikimedia Research Showcase. The proportion of new accounts with access to both editing environments will be gradually increased over time. Eventually all new users have the choice between the two editing environments.

Let's work together[edit]

  • Share your ideas and ask questions at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback.
  • Can you read and type in Korean or Japanese? Language engineer David Chan needs people who know which tools people use to type in some languages. If you speak Japanese or Korean, you can help him test support for these languages. Please see the instructions at mw:VisualEditor/IME Testing#What to test if you can help.
  • If your wiki would like VisualEditor enabled on another namespace, you can file a request in Phabricator. Please include a link to a community discussion about the requested change.
  • Please file requests for language-appropriate "Bold" and "Italic" icons for the styling menu in Phabricator.
  • The design research team wants to see how real editors work. Please sign up for their research program.
  • The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, usually on Tuesdays at 12:00 (noon) PDT (19:00 UTC). Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q1 blocker, though. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the main VisualEditor project with the bug.

If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact Elitre directly, so that she can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: July 2015[edit]

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Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 00:22, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Mat (Russian profanity)[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Mat (Russian profanity). Legobot (talk) 00:04, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you![edit]

Cup-o-coffee-simple.svg Welcome back to WP:RFD! Gotta say, your comments/votes almost always make me second guess my way of thinking and/or lead to a productive debate of sorts. (I mean, heck, I've even already withdrawn a nomination due to the aforementioned [and it was justified!]) Steel1943 (talk) 15:55, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you! I know I'm not always right, but it's nice when someone takes the time to consider your arguments. Thryduulf (talk) 19:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion. Legobot (talk) 00:06, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

RfD watchlist[edit]

In the February 2012 row under User:Thryduulf/RfD watchlist#2012, the link to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 February 29 should display 29 instead of 28. The link is correct for 2008, a leap year like 2012. The link should also be correct for 2016, another leap year. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 02:17, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm amazed that someone has looked at this in sufficient detail to spot this. I've now fixed it in any case. Thryduulf (talk) 10:42, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Username policy[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Username policy. Legobot (talk) 00:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposed amendment to WP:ADMIN regarding paid editing[edit]

You recently commented on a brainstorm that discussed banning administrators from paid editing. A concrete proposal to amend the administrator policy to this effect has been made at Wikipedia talk:Administrators#Proposed change - 'No paid editing" for admins. Your comments would be appreciated. MER-C 08:17, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to subscribe to the edit filter mailing list[edit]

Hi, as a user in the edit filter manager user group we wanted to let you know about the new wikipedia-en-editfilters mailing list. As part of our recent efforts to improve the use of edit filters on the English Wikipedia it has been established as a venue for internal discussion by edit filter managers regarding private filters (those only viewable by administrators and edit filter managers) and also as a means by which non-admins can ask questions about hidden filters that wouldn't be appropriate to discuss on-wiki. As an edit filter manager we encourage you to subscribe; the more users we have in the mailing list the more useful it will be to the community. If you subscribe we will send a short email to you through Wikipedia to confirm your subscription, but let us know if you'd prefer another method of verification. I'd also like to take the opportunity to invite you to contribute to the proposed guideline for edit filter use at WP:Edit filter/Draft and the associated talk page. Thank you! Sam Walton (talk) and MusikAnimal talk 18:22, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: August 2015[edit]

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  • UK report: QRpedia AWOL; RSC holds another edit-a-thon
  • Special story: New toolkit on Photo Events documents best practices, strategies and more
  • Open Access report: Wikipedia as an amplyfier; horse face recognition, rhythm perception, fossil rodent teeth
  • Wikidata report: Wikidata this month
  • Calendar: September's GLAM events

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Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 15:14, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Roku[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Roku. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Please sign new Wikimedia confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information by 15 December[edit]

This is a message from the Wikimedia Foundation. Translations are available.

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As you may know, the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees approved a new "Access to nonpublic information policy" on 25 April 2014 after a community consultation. The former policy has remained in place until the new policy could be implemented. That implementation work is now being done, and we are beginning the transition to the new policy.

An important part of that transition is helping volunteers like you sign the required confidentiality agreement. All Wikimedia volunteers with access to nonpublic information are required to sign this new agreement, and we have prepared some documentation to help you do so.

The Wikimedia Foundation is requiring that anyone with access to nonpublic information sign the new confidentiality agreement by 15 December 2015 (OTRS users have until 22 December 2015) to retain their access. You are receiving this email because you have access to nonpublic information and are required to sign the confidentiality agreement under the new policy.

Signing the confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information is conducted and tracked using Legalpad on Phabricator. The general confidentiality agreement is now ready, and the OTRS agreement will be ready after 22 September 2015. We have prepared a guide on Meta-Wiki to help you create your Phabricator account and sign the new agreement: Confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information/How to sign

If you have any questions or experience any problems while signing the new agreement, please visit this talk page or email me ( Again, please sign this confidentiality agreement by 15 December 2015 (OTRS users have until 22 December 2015) to retain your access to nonpublic information. If you do not wish to retain this access, please let me know and we will forward your request to the appropriate individuals.

Thank you,
Gregory Varnum (User:GVarnum-WMF), Wikimedia Foundation

Posted by the MediaWiki message delivery 23:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC) • TranslateGet help

Electronic cigarette[edit]

Hi Thryduulf. After reading your talk page before posting I think I have found the answer to one of my questions in a section titled Awareness. I have just completed a 6 month self ban that stopped me from participating in the e-cig case. I have lots of evidence I would like to add, but the evidence phase is closed. Is there any way I can be allowed to add it? If I misunderstood the post above and there is a better place to ask, or a specific format to use would you please point me in that direction. Thanks. AlbinoFerret 15:02, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to be barely active (I suspect) until next week so my talk page isn't the best place to continue this - the best place to ask this sort of question is on one of the case talk pages. In general though once the evidence phase has closed we will not reopen it unless there is something significantly missing. On the evidence or workshop talk pages, if you could outline (in as few words as possible) what evidence you would add, if allowed, that has not been presented by someone else already we will consider making an exception. Thryduulf (talk) 19:12, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
[misplaced comment removed] AlbinoFerret 19:31, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Please read my comment again. Thryduulf (talk) 19:35, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Sorry about that I was confused where you wanted the outline. I have added it to the only open talk page in the case. AlbinoFerret 19:56, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Technical question[edit]

How exactly does one move an article from user space to mainspace while preserving the edit history? Thanks, —Tim /// Carrite (talk) 02:13, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, but you move the page in exactly the same way that you would if you were moving a page within the article namespace. If you do not want all the history (e.g. if it has unrelated history as a sandbox, or an early version contained a copyright violation) then an admin can (iirc) do this by deleting the unwanted revisions, moving the page and then restoring the old revisions. Thryduulf (talk) 08:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Help us improve wikimeets by filling in the UK Wikimeet survey![edit]

Hello! I'm running a survey to identify the best way to notify Wikimedians about upcoming UK wikimeets (informal, in-person social meetings of Wikimedians), and to see if we can improve UK wikimeets to make them accessible and attractive to more editors and readers. All questions are optional, and it will take about 10 minutes to complete. Please fill it in at:

Thanks! Mike Peel (talk) 17:18, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Hole in Fulham[edit]

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 18:32, 21 September 2015 (UTC).


Hi Thryduulf, I have a dumb question: How could I see on your talk page that you are an administrator? or arb committee member? I thought there had to be a userbox orthis broom or globe-like logo on the upper right hand corner of the page? I see that not every administrator has that though. Thanks --Wuerzele (talk) 04:39, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Noting on your user and/or user talk page that you are an admin, arbitrator, or anything else is entirely optional. If you choose to do so, then the method you use (e.g. the icons in the upper right corner) is also completely optional. I have administrator and arbitrator userboxes on my user page, but have not chosen to advertise these userrights on my talk page.
If you want to see who is an administrator, you can look at Wikipedia:List of administrators. To see what rights a specific user holds, the quickest way is Special:Listusers and enter the username in the box. For arbitrators, you need to look at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee#Members. Thryduulf (talk) 11:01, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Artist's impressions of astronomical objects[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Artist's impressions of astronomical objects. Legobot (talk) 00:05, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Just joking[edit]

I apologize - didn't mean to imply that I was getting spam from wiki mail. It was a light-hearted comment about my private email getting such junk already. I barely get any WP email except for TWL emails and the occasional drive-by hello how are you from editors who need help with things like formatting complex tables which I barely know how to do. Face-smile.svg Atsme📞📧 22:54, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Categorization of people[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Categorization of people. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor update[edit]

This note is only delivered to English Wikipedia subscribers of the visual editor's newsletter.

The location of the visual editor's preference has been changed from the "Beta" tab to the "Editing" section of your preferences on this wiki. The setting now says Temporarily disable the visual editor while it is in beta. This aligns with almost all the other WMF wikis; it doesn’t mean the visual editor is complete, or that it is no longer “in beta phase” though.

This action has not changed anything else for editors: it still honours editors’ previous choices about having it on or off; logged-out users continue to only have access to wikitext; the “Edit” tab is still after the “Edit source” one. You can learn more at the visual editor’s talk page.

We don’t expect this to cause any glitches, but in case your account no longer has the settings that you want, please accept our apologies and correct it in the Editing tab of Special:Preferences. Thank you for your attention, Elitre (WMF) -16:32, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

ARCA comment[edit]

"Until that happens though, alternate accounts that are publicly disclosed may not participate in arbitration cases, etc. to which they are not a party and that are unrelated to article content they are working on."?

Did you mean "Until that happens though, alternate accounts that are not publicly disclosed may not participate in arbitration cases, etc. to which they are not a party and that are unrelated to article content they are working on."? NE Ent 11:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

I do indeed, thank you. Thryduulf (talk) 11:08, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: September 2015[edit]

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Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 01:44, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

For info....[edit]

Hi! I think you were involved in the unblocking of Woodseats44 earlier this year (diff), noting that " please be advised that your contributions will be closely watched". For info, I've recently been left the rather hostile message from an IP address, almost certainly Woodseats44, here. Hchc2009 (talk) 18:09, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the heads up. I agree that does look rather like Woodseats based on his recent contributions. Thryduulf (talk) 18:17, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Birmingham meetup[edit]

See you there? Well... not here... this photo is from a pub in Manchester... but that's cos there haven't been enough meetups in Birmingham.
Hi there! Did you know that there will be a meetup in Birmingham on the 15th of November?

There hasn't been many meetups in Birmingham. I will be passing through on the 15th of November, so I thought I would see who fancied meeting up, while I'm in the area. I'm leaving this message on your talk page because you have previously expressed an interest in a meetup in Birmingham or Coventry.

Yaris678 (talk) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:46, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Strange email[edit]

Ironically it appears right after our email discussion. Does this look like spam to you? You've Got Mail The user page and talk page of the poster has not been created. It's really strange. Atsme📞📧 12:10, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Without being able to see the email in question, my feeling is that is not spam. The user in question has made good faith contributions starting in August, I'm about to drop them a welcome template. Thryduulf (talk) 13:12, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Verifiability[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Verifiability. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
I've got to say, I've seen your comments about the place and you seem one of the more "rational observers" (if you'll pardon the pun) on the site. I think you have a good head on your shoulders. I wish others were like you! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:22, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Thryduulf (talk) 20:42, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Eeeks, though I'm not too keen on what happened to Yngvadottir in seeing :-( , but I understand it's "policy". Your comments about the site are certainly fair though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:27, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Yngvadottir, it is simple. If you believe an AE action was in error you do not reverse it without either (a) the permission of the admin who made the action; or (b) a clear community consensus that the action was wrong. Yngvadottir didn't even attempt to do either of these and was desysopped. Anyone else doing the same thing will be desysopped as well. Regardless of whether the action was or was not in error, this is the only way to stop the wiki descending into chaos. Thryduulf (talk) 20:42, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Trying to make complicated things simple is a mistake. The block by Kirill was absurd and was rightly reverted. Jehochman Talk 12:20, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Eric Corbett arbitration case[edit]

I just posted a statement at the arbitration request about Eric Corbett. Giving you the heads up on this that I might be involved as I erased all his comments. I'd like you to keep me out of this if I'm necessary to the case.

Thanks for putting up with this garbage so the rest of us don't have to. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 01:37, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom isn't a court[edit]

Your statement is going to rile people up. [1] We really don't respect people who go around trying to pull rank. The block was lummoxy. You should not endorse something that is wrong, or punish somebody who is right, just for the sake of maintaining order. A little wheel warring from time to time is a good thing. Jehochman Talk 03:26, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

A little wheel warring from time to time is a good thing I am truly flabbergasted that anyone could ever suggest this in a serious manner. Thryduulf (talk) 11:19, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Why? How dare you violate our edicts? Is that your thinking? Disagreement is natural and good. When people are passionate they will occasionally step out of line and do what needs to be done. Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? Society does not need kowtowing little minions following petty tyrants. Jehochman Talk 11:42, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Disagreement is natural and good, but the way to resolve disagreements on an collaborative project is by civilised discussion not by armed conflict. It's a shame though you need to make attacks on the character of arbitrators rather than engage in rational discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 12:01, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
I'd appreciate if your weren't so condescending and mischaracterizing my comment. Did you answer my questions? I agree that discussion is the way to go and that's what I do myself. On the other hand if somebody resorts to action against an actual injustice, that's not the time to throw the book at them, as you did. . Jehochman Talk 12:22, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Whether the block of Eric was appropriate or not is being hotly debated as we speak, without apparent consensus one way or the other. It is therefore not an example of an injustice that requires unilateral out of process action. It's funny you accuse me of condescension and mischaracterisation, as that's the exact impression I have of your comments. Thryduulf (talk) 12:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Admins are not supposed to use tools to perform contentious actions. If it's contentious, wait, discuss and figure it out before acting. The block of Eric was very contentious because he had in fact (1) not said anything intemperate, (2) was defending himself from accusations of impropriety, and (3) was joining a conversation where he had been pinged. Your persistent defense of the indefensible is what's flabbergasting. Why was Yngavadottir summarily desysopped, but Kiril was given warms pats on the back by ArbCom? Kiril created the problem by acting in a dubious fashion. Yngavadottir set things right, and then ArbCom came in shouting "How dare you defy us. How dare you. Off with your head!" You are part of that problem so long as you choose to associate yourself with that group. Jehochman Talk 16:03, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Admins are not supposed to use tools to perform contentious actions. If it's contentious, wait, discuss and figure it out before acting. This is what Yngvadottir should have done, because reversing an AE action without discussion (whether that action is right or wrong) is always contentious. Nothing more needs to be said. Thryduulf (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
I agree. Her actions were not according to best practice. But neither were Kirill's, and moreover Kirill's error precipitated the incident. I find fault with both of them, but only Yngvadottir was punished severely and speedily. That result is unfair. Jehochman Talk 16:21, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Kirill's actions will be investigated as part of the case, as the rights and wrongs are subjective. Thryduulf (talk) 16:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
ArbCom is lousy at investigating current and former members. There really need to be at least two bodies, each capable of investigating members of the other. Jehochman Talk 16:28, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Whether that is true or not (you don't present any evidence to back up your assertion), suggestions like that made on my talk page are of little value. Try initiating a discussion somewhere central that can develop a workable proprosal and put that to the community. Thryduulf (talk) 16:32, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Category talk:Establishments[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Category talk:Establishments. Legobot (talk) 00:05, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Arbitrator action[edit]

I had trouble believing a clerk or an arbitrator would do something so silly. It really looked like an ironic joke, which I would totally respect in normal circumstances, but with everybody so riled up, it's not good timing. Do you see how awful it is to censor somebody who is complaining about censorship? If you all ran for ArbCom right now, I think you'd poll below 15% support. You might want to stop going all-in. Just consider the possibility that you are wrong, and somebody else in this world might know better than you do. Jehochman Talk 16:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps, you can take your own advice? First of all, this is a totally normal circumstance for this website. Moreover, you were wrong, here, about why someone (Liz) was doing what they were doing, and it is actually a bad idea to just let your misrepresentation and misunderstanding go, without correction. Second, it seems impossible that you are unaware that Thyrdullf actually has a duty to speak on these things (whereas you do not). And as an aside, that First Amendment and censorship comment, just showed a misunderstanding of the First Amendment and censorship. Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:21, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Do you have a point? If so please restate it in 4th grade language because nothing you said makes any sense to me. Jehochman Talk 16:33, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Then we should end this now, as taking your own advice should be pretty clear. I did add a parenthetical, if that helps. Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Slightly. I assumed it was some sort of joke edit, because it was so obviously ironic. I then looked at Liz's user page to see if she was in fact an arbitration clerk. She does have a userbox, but it's in the middle-ish, surrounded by a bunch of other stuff, and I did not see it. Many clerks over the years have the arbitration clerk hat logo placed in the upper right of their page (same place I put my administrator logo). The point of the logo is to help others by identifying oneself, not to waive a badge of authority. There you go. I hope that clarifies everything. Jehochman Talk 16:41, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
It was already clear that you were mistaken, but thanks. Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Whether you find it easy to believe or not, Liz is a clerk, she did that action and I do endorse it. There is no requirement for any editor to display anything on their userpage (or even have a userpage), a list of arbitration clerks is maintained at WP:AC/C. I don't think there is any more that needs to be said here. Thryduulf (talk) 18:53, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor News #5—2015[edit]

Read this in another languageSubscription list for this multilingual newsletter

Did you know?
You can use the visual editor on smartphones and tablets.

Screenshot showing the menu for switching from the wikitext editor to VisualEditor

Click the pencil icon to open the editor for a page. Inside that, use the gear menu in the upper right corner to "Switch to visual editing".

The editing button will remember which editing environment you used last time, and give you the same one next time. The desktop site will be switching to a system similar to this one in the coming months.

You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor Team has fixed many bugs, added new features, and made some small design changes. They post weekly status reports on Their workboard is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are improving support for languages like Japanese and Arabic, making it easier to edit on mobile devices, and providing rich-media tools for formulæ, charts, galleries and uploading.

Recent improvements[edit]

Educational features: The first time you use the visual editor, it now draws your attention to the Link and Cite tools. When you click on the tools, it explains why you should use them. (T108620) Alongside this, the welcome message for new users has been simplified to make editing more welcoming. (T112354) More in-software educational features are planned.

Links:  It is now easier to understand when you are adding text to a link and when you are typing plain text next to it. (T74108T91285) The editor now fully supports ISBN, PMID or RFC numbers. (T109498, T110347, T63558)  These "magic links" use a custom link editing tool.

Uploads:  Registered editors can now upload images and other media to Commons while editing. Click the new tab in the "Insert Media" tool. You will be guided through the process without having to leave your edit. At the end, the image will be inserted. This tool is limited to one file at a time, owned by the user, and licensed under Commons's standard license. For more complex situations, the tool links to more advanced upload tools. You can also drag the image into the editor. This will be available in the wikitext editor later.

Mobile:  Previously, the visual editor was available on the mobile Wikipedia site only on tablets. Now, editors can use the visual editor on any size of device. (T85630)  Edit conflicts were previously broken on the mobile website. Edit conflicts can now be resolved in both wikitext and visual editors. (T111894) Sometimes templates and similar items could not be deleted on the mobile website. Selecting them caused the on-screen keyboard to hide with some browsers. Now there is a new "Delete" button, so that these things can be removed if the keyboard hides. (T62110) You can also edit table cells in mobile now.

Rich editing tools:  You can now add and edit sheet music in the visual editor. (T112925)  There are separate tabs for advanced options, such as MIDI and Ogg audio files. (T114227 and T113354)  When editing formulæ and other blocks, errors are shown as you edit. It is also possible to edit some types of graphs; adding new ones, and support for new types, will be coming.

On the English Wikipedia, the visual editor is now automatically available to anyone who creates an account. The preference switch was moved to the normal location, under Special:Preferences.

Future changes[edit]

You will soon be able to switch from the wikitext to the visual editor after you start editing. (T49779) Previously, you could only switch from the visual editor to the wikitext editor. Bi-directional switching will make possible a single edit tab. (T102398) This project will combine the "Edit" and "Edit source" tabs into a single "Edit" tab, similar to the system already used on the mobile website. The "Edit" tab will open whichever editing environment you used last time.

Let's work together[edit]

If you can't read this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!

Whatamidoing (WMF) 04:16, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Jedediah Smith[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Jedediah Smith. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: October 2015[edit]

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Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 05:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)


re: your discussion and thought experiment with User:Wehwalt:

My understanding is that long ago (in a galaxy far away?), in simpler times Jimbo had made a declaration that posts to his talk page should never be considered a violation of canvassing. It allowed him to be open to all sides, at all times. This created an "open forum", if you will. Now, in more congested and complex times, it's certainly understandable if "rules" need to be adjusted. Recently (after Eric had posted to his talk), Jimbo stated that it was acceptable if posts from some individuals were removed from his talk without his explicit approval.[2] [3] Given the lack of liner time, and the memory that Wikipedia seems to have, this creates a paradox. Open to all vs. Not open to all. There really is a solution to this: User:Jimbo Wales/Open Forum, or Wikipedia:Open Forum. Jimbo could watchlist it if he desired, or ignore it if he wished. People who were not blocked could voice their concerns without fear of reprisal. I'm likely missing an obvious flaw in this, but it was just a thought I decided to share. — Ched :  ?  17:00, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

The first thing that comes to mind is that without any rules, it would quickly become a mire of personal attacks, hate speech and misogyny served on a bed of trolling and soap boxing, possibly with a side of copyright violation for good measure. If you allowed everything except that, you are essentially back to what Jimbo's talk page is now. If you can think of a way around that please let me know! Thryduulf (talk) 17:42, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Well, I wasn't suggesting throwing away the common rules of decency - but meh - that would be for Jimbo to hash out, not me. — Ched :  ?  16:00, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Typo in your candidate statement[edit]

I noticed a typo in your candidate statement: "I have tired" → tried. (I wonder if it's a Freudian slip. Face-smile.svg) Feel free to delete this message. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:35, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the proofreading! Whether it is Freudian or not I leave you to make up your own mind! Thryduulf (talk) 18:54, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Per my comment to you on the GMO PD talk page, I'm worried that you are missing some things in the evidence. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:56, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for bringing the evidence concerns to Thryduulf's attention, Tryptofish. Several of us have expressed similar concerns albeit from an opposite perspective - one might even say that the majority of editors who made comments on PD Talk have raised questions. (My vote: Classic Freudian 👀 😆) Atsme📞📧 16:47, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
I'll not get chance to review that case again until Monday I suspect (I'm at m:Meetup/Birmingham/4 tomorrow) but I will take another look. Thryduulf (talk) 16:55, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Thryduulf. It really comes down to the need to take a comprehensive view of the evidence, as opposed to what many editors are seeing as relying too much on the snapshot given in the first draft of the PD. I realize that the nature of the process is that all the parties have been in the thick of the dispute and are very familiar to it, whereas the Arbs are asked to come in and become familiar with something that you have not previously followed. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:15, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Fringe theories[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Fringe theories. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Signpost inquiry[edit]

Thryduulf, I've emailed you via Meta, since my daily allowance here has been reached. Tony (talk) 05:12, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I've replied by email. I was not able to stick to the 75 word limit for comments as there were too many questions where a numerical response alone gives a fair or useful answer. Thryduulf (talk) 12:56, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

A message to generate an icon[edit]

This message is solely to generate a new messages icon. Awkward42 (talk) [the alternate account of Thryduulf (talk)] 02:24, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:55, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear candidate[edit]

Hello. I asked you a question, and you answered me by a question. From my own experience in recruitment, open questions give better insights than closed ones. This was the reason why my question was so few "specific about what that question actually" was. And this is also the reason why I am late in answering your question: I was not willing to give anyone any clue about an "expected answer". Best luck for your re-election. Pldx1 (talk) 17:24, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Fist - first[edit]

Hi, I won't change your posting on Jimbo's page, but you might want to make it less pugnacious....... ϢereSpielChequers 17:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Yngvadottir's unblock[edit]

It seems that emergency removal is only to prevent future actions, not to punish for past mistakes. What she did certainly deserved a discussion about desysop, no one is arguing against that, the issue is how we achieve this. You should vote your conscience, of course, but if you do feel that there wasn't any likelihood of her using the tools again in a way that caused issue, then it would seem that the regular methods of removing the bit, using deliberation and at least hearing the larger picture, is what the community expects. Using emergency powers in a non-emergency is a dangerous precedent to set, and if we do here, we open the gate to expanding this use down the road. No reply is needed, but I do ask that you reconsider your position and hopefully not set the precedent that it is fine to use emergency powers in non-emergencies simply out of convenience or on the assumption that desysop will be the final outcome anyway. Dennis Brown - 14:41, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

@Dennis Brown: I agree that emergency should only be used in an emergency, and if there was no (or almost no) likelihood of her using the tools again in a way that caused the issue then that would not be an emergency. That was not the case here, at the time I felt that whether she would use the tools again was unknowable - for example if someone had reblocked Eric then I feel it was actually quite possible she would unblock again. That does constitute an emergency. What happens after the emergency has passed is an entirely different question, but in this case I see no justification to resysop without an RFA where the community can decide whether she still has their confidence. I do not know which way I would vote at any such RFA. Thryduulf (talk) 15:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Had Arb really thought it was an emergency, they would have reblocked Eric. You had the authority, the tools and the opportunity, but you didn't. There is a fundamental difference in her unblocking Eric because she thinks the block was excessive and her actually participating in wheel warring. If that were the case, we would desysop or block every admin that reverted another. There is no finding of fact that she was likely to wheel war, and even Arb itself is split on whether Kirill's actions were "reasonable". Nothing in her action, her history, her public statements supported the assumption she would wheel war, so this is an assumption of bad faith of the highest order. Emergency procedures are for emergencies only, not convenience or for making political statements, and whether or not it was the intent, this is what it has been reduced to. It was an overreaction, and for Arb to admit as much would go further in restoring faith in Arb than digging in where there is no evidence of danger. We *need* Arb to admit errors instead of dodging responsility. To say "she might have unblocked IF Eric was blocked again" rings hollow (and again, he wasn't reblocked). If that is the standard, then you should block every admin that reverts another as they also might wheel war. I don't doubt you mean well, but again, I'm asking you to step aside a bit and see this from the community's perspective. There is a terrible inconsistency in using emergency powers based on pure conjecture instead of when there is a real threat that can actually be substantiated. I'm not so all alone in this thinking, as the vote itself indicates. Dennis Brown - 15:40, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
You are conflating several things here, but the most important points are that emergency actions will always have to be based on at least some conjecture by their very nature as they take place before the dust has settled and before all information is available. If you take action A (desysopping Yngvadottir) to prevent action B (another unblock out of process) if C (someone reblocks Eric) happens, but C does not then happen does not mean that action A was automatically wrong - indeed action A might have prevented action C (it is impossible to know). Whether or not Eric was blocked was not an emergency, therefore we did not take an emergency action - you cannot use us not taking emergency action in a non emergency to determine that taking emergency action in an emergency was wrong. Finally, even if the action was taken using the wrong process (which I disagree was the case) the way to proceed is not to reverse that action if the post-action review concludes it was the right action. I have stepped back and reviewed all the evidence presented at the time and during the case and my conclusion is that desysopping Yngvadottir was the right course of action, that the correct process to do so was used, and that she should not be resysopped without an RfA. That you disagree with my conclusions does not mean that I have not given them careful thought. Thryduulf (talk) 15:58, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
PS, I agree that it is important to admit errors when they are made but I disagree that this was an error. Thryduulf (talk) 16:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
As the evidence in the case shows, Yngvadottir knowingly abused the tools (I knew I would be desysopped) to make a political statement (has firm ideas about the gender gap). Arbcom needs to put an immediate stop to such abuse by admins. The split at Arbcom over Kiril's act is a priori and indisputable evidence that Kiril's act is within reason. Yngvadottir ratcheted up the drama by abusing the tools (in a notable area of drama) in a raw demonstration of naked power -- few things are more deserving of immediate desyssop to protect the pedia from politicized admin abuse. Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:08, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
As usual, there is so much wrong with what you are saying, it would take too long to address each point. Since it adds nothing to the discussion, I won't even try. Dennis Brown - 17:05, 25 November 2015 (UTC)