User talk:Tony1

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This user doesn't despise admins personally; he despises the toxic admin system and culture.

So you're back ...[edit]

... and I have a copyediting question, so I've naturally come to you. ;-) See Talk:Murder of Yvonne Fletcher#Lead sentence. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:56, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Belated thanks[edit]

I've always wanted to come back here and thank you for the copyedit suggestions on my FA nominations years ago. My job now involves heavy revision of workpapers, memos, and other write-ups, and each time I axe "utilize" and "additionally", I remember your sage advice. Thank you. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 21:00, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

You're most welcome! Tony (talk) 00:53, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Style question[edit]

Hallo Tony, as our good-writing guru: An editor has made a lot of changes like this and this, changing the sentence to start with a present or past participle (or possibly it's called something else in this case) so that the subject is somewhere in the middle of the sentence. I don't think these changes are an improvement: presumably they find straightforward sentences a bit dull, or have learned at school that they should be avoided. Is there any advice on writing style to which I can point this editor? What do you think about these changes? I'd value your comments. PamD 14:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Pam, you flatter me! The first one I think is an improvement, avoiding "She ... She", and two rather stubby successive sentences. I wouldn't want to see that grammar a lot, though. Pity about "born ... born", but I can't see a way around it right now. The second one is in the same vein, but here, making us wait for the actor to be specified (a slight disadvantage for the reader) carries no advantage in other respects (as it does in the first example). Dear dear: "The team competed at ...", again and again! And all one long paragraph. I'd prefer to remove all but the first, and join them as an inline list separated by semicolons. My best to you, Pam. Tony (talk) 14:44, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks - I think I'd rather read simple clunky sentences than convoluted ones, though in an ideal Wikipedia all the prose would be of sparkling clarity and elegant flow. The worst of this editor's edits that I came across was this which changes the meaning so that the father is being described (I think!) Ah well. PamD 14:55, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
(Johnny come lately here) Isn't that odd? Interesting point, PamD. They're essentially the same edit, but the first one is better than the second. Sometimes I have a student who learns that sometimes this is an improvement and next thing you know they do every sentence that way. "Subject in the middle of a sentence"--I made this edit yesterday, to put the discrimination stuff up front, but what I created was just the most pedestrian sentence ever. I guess that's not always a bad thing in an encyclopedia, and they can't all be zingers, plus the message has to be couched in the "this scholar said" straitjacket... If you can improve it, please do. I'm not too old to learn a new trick. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:36, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
Drmies, correct me if I'm wrong, but when one of your corrupted admin colleagues breached policy in a ridiculous and unjust permanent block at the start of the year, you were among admins who gave him succour, shifting the blame to me and glossing over his policy breach. You are not welcome on this page. Tony (talk) 00:42, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Another tawdry issue of The Signpost[edit]

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
I've been looking for this page for almost a decade! Glad to have found it again! Yoderj (talk) 15:53, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

FAC debate[edit]

Thanks, Tony, for your pertinent comments on WT:FAC. I hope they cause waves. I've added my few pence-worth of comments. See here for some relevant data. Brianboulton (talk) 15:55, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Another bad issue of The Signpost: 30 August 2018[edit]


Hi Tony1, I notice you've moved "Fichtelberg Railway" to "Fichtelberg railway", "Schwarzbach Railway" to "Schwarzbach railway" and "Gottleuba Valley Railway" to "Gottleuba Valley railway". However, these are proper names and should really be capitalised as in Dart Valley Railway or Severn Valley Railway or the Bluebell Line to quote well known English examples. We tend to use lower case if they are in the format "Leipzig–Hof railway" which is more a description than a proper name. Thanks. Bermicourt (talk) 09:42, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Oh, really? I'd like to check this out further (not disbelieving you, but en.WP has had a lot of discussion about this matter when it comes to English-named railways). Tony (talk) 09:45, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
You know, I hope whoever invented the uppercase-lowercase distinction is burning in hell. EEng 17:07, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
They certainly didn't foresee thumb-typing on cell phones. Tony (talk) 06:15, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
  • @Bermicourt: I asked User:Dicklyon for an opinion. He had a quick look at the first one you mention: Fichtelberg railway. His comment: "I don't see any evidence of it being a company, or being presented as such." Tony (talk) 06:17, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
It's not a company; it's a railway line with a proper name. You have to look at English-language usage to see how we would spell them. In my experience, Dicklyon has strong views on spelling, which effectively become Wiki rules that don't always reflect real usage. Under WP:BRD the moves should be reverted until there is evidence that the overwhelming number of references to "Foo Valley Railway" lines in English language sources use the lower case form. I don't think they do. Bermicourt (talk) 08:06, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Why is it different when the location name has two (capped) words? X Valley. Tony (talk) 08:16, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
It's not. If a railway is named after a geographical feature it's been given a proper name. In English we indicate that by using title case - see the examples above. When translating German we conventionally do likewise. It's the same for other manmade features e.g. Tamar Bridge, Elster Viaduct, etc. On the other hand, when a railway hasn't been given a proper name, but just labelled after its start and finish points, we use lower case for the word railway. Although interestingly the British convention is also to give those proper names, viz. Southampton and Dorchester Railway, Bristol and Exeter Railway, so even that is worth researching further. Bermicourt (talk) 07:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
  • If you really feel so strongly, and it's easier for me to revert them, I suppose I'll do it. But I don't agree with the argument. The wikiproject on railways decided a decade ago that [geographical name] station would be a lowercase "s", for example. Tony (talk) 08:00, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


@Tony1 I'm a beginner copy-editor, and while I am good at grammar, I need help with style and making articles style better. Also my method of copy editing is very inefficient. (I just wonder around the article pointlessly) Can you give me a good push in the right direction? Clikity (talk) 14:41, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi, try this. You'll find a list of related pages there; but only the top three are satisfactory. Try copy-editing one section at a time, intensively. Also, take a look at WP:FAC: in a few nominations I've listed issues with the text of the lead in the article. Before reading the list, read the article lead critically; then return and read my points. Tony (talk) 15:27, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice! Clikity (talk) 15:54, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Well I guess the problem for me is that I need to be a bit more cautious. I often overlooked things during the tests, but I pulled myself together after a while. I'm hoping to finish them tomorrow.Clikity (talk) 16:08, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Siege of Thessalonica (1422–1430)[edit]

I'm sorry for bothering you, but can you provide comments on some of the prose of this article? I gave this article a support on WP:FAC and maybe you can help push this article a bit further. Clikity (talk) 22:43, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
I hope the title uses a range dash, not a hyphen. :-) Tony (talk) 01:07, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes it does. I was in a rush so I forgot about it. Clikity (talk) 22:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

FA prose reviewing[edit]

Thanks for your message Tony, I'm very much a beginner but watching and learning in the deep end! JennyOz (talk) 11:17, 19 September 2018 (UTC)