User talk:Tony1

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14 October 2016

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What they say about Tony1

Being a reformer on the English Wikipedia and further afield in the Wikimedia movement brings me into contact with many people who have vested interests in resisting change. I am truly grateful for their advice, which has been important to my ongoing program of self-improvement. Here is a list of some of the most helpful comments from March 2013 to March 2014—all rigorously fact-checked to exclude mistruths and exaggerations (diffs available on request):

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Abbreviations: points and spaces

The letters in acronyms and initialisms are generally not separated by points or spaces (GNP, NORAD, OBE, GmbH). Points and spaces that were traditionally required have now dropped out of usage (PhD is now preferred over Ph.D. and Ph. D.).

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The Signpost: 14 October 2016[edit]

Your changes to [Diatonic Function][edit]

Hi! I note that you changed this statement:

In tonal music theory, a diatonic function [...} is the specific, recognized role of each of the 7 notes and their chords in relation to the diatonic key.

into this one:

In tonal music theory, a diatonic function [...] is the specific, recognized role of each of the 7 tones and their triads in relation to the diatonic key.

I do not want merely to revert your changes without having discussed them with you, but I think that you are wrong here.

The case is rather clear for what concerns "chord/triad": more than once, a function is exerted by a 7th chord. It may even be argued that there are several historical reasons to think so. Rameau specifically associated his functions with specific dissonances: a 7th chord, for him, was a dominant, and a 6/5 chord a subdominant. Riemann had the theory of "feigned consonances", by which he meant that some chords, even if apparently consonant (i.e. triads), merely feigned consonance by supposing a dissonance without actually sounding it: the triad IV, for instance, was for him a subdominant because in included an implied 6th (say, F A C + D), a highly Ramist point of view; and the triad II similarly was a subdominant because it implied its 7th. So, I do believe that functions, especially at this early stage in the article, should be associated with "chord" rather than with "triad".

The case of "note/tone" is less clear and really depends on what you call a note, and a tone. A tone, for me, seems to refer to the sound of a ... note, while a note merely is a an abstract concept, in this case a degree of a scale. Functions, indeed, certainly do not depend on particular sounds, and they certainly depend on positions in the scale, the diatonic one in this case. The degrees of the diatonic scale certainly are abstractions: they do not even have a pitch.

Needless to say, all this might be explained further in the article, if necessary. I do think that this article is very much in need of a thorough rewriting. But this, IMO and as I explained in Talk:Diatonic function#Diatonic function, harmonic function, tonal function?, should start with a renaming of the article. (An additional argument to this effect is that functions exist even in minor, while the minor scale probably should not be said "diatonic".) Could you give your opinion about this in Talk:Diatonic function#Requested move 13 October 2016? — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 12:12, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

You make a good point about seventh chords; well spotted. I'll change it back now. But tone is, I believe, less restrictive than note. Tony (talk) 10:59, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


Hello, I'm ATS. Ike Altgens is a Featured article candidate. I hope you have a few moments to check this article against the criteria so I may address any concerns and see this nomination through. My thanks in advance. —ATS 🖖 talk 21:35, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 22 October[edit]

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that some edits performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. They are as follows:

Please check these pages and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:19, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

One easily fixed; the other, for me, an imponderable I've taken up with the bot-runner. Tony (talk) 10:33, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Case at ANI[edit]

Dear Tony,

I have called attention to our dispute at WP:ANI#User:Tony1. You will no doubt want to participate in the discussion.

Ravpapa (talk) 13:27, 25 October 2016 (UTC)