User talk:Trappist the monk

CS1This user is responsible for those .

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Help with modules

Hello! Some months ago me and another guy started dealing a bit with the overall helping infrastructure related to the module CS1. With that I mean creating the navigation box, the sandbox pages and all. We have still a long way to go but it seems like we're sort of reaching our limits. In here (EnWiki) the pages of module CS1 appear under a bluish background, in EnWiki that thing doesn't happen. We've tried updating the documentation module many times but it still remains the same. Do you have any ideas how we can deal with that problem? Also, sandbox pages here have a template on top of them which doesn't appear at SqWiki even though we did get the template for it. We're not sure what we're lacking and where. These are the main things that we can see with "bare eyes" but there are other things lacking as well, for example test cases (which I honestly have no idea what they're supposed to be, I only learned about sandboxes lately, have yet to start to deal with those), some other subpages, etc. If you have the nerves to help us a bit here, we'd be grateful. I can even provide all the needed permissions/privileges (what's under my possibilities as an admin) if you think it'd be easier for you to work on your own than with "third parties". If you don't, I can totally understand why so don't worry much. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:26, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

You are thinking about the colored background that appears on, for example, sq:Stampa:Cite book, and are wondering why that same background isn't available at sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1. Fine question. I don't know the answer. I speculate that there is some site-wide setting somewhere that tells MediaWiki to use {{documentation}} to style the documentation section of Scribuntu pages when they are rendered. If you view the page source for Module:Citation/CS1 you can find these this:

<div class="documentation">
<div class="documentation-startbox">
<span class="documentation-heading">...
<div role="note"...

These also appear in the page source of Stampa:Cite book (has {{documentation}} but not in the page source of sq:Stampa:NgjyraShteti/Franca (does not have {{documentation}}).

Because a module at en.wiki that does not have documentation, still shows the boilerplate and styling (Module:Sandbox/trappist the monk/random sort), and because there is no place in a module's code for a {{documentation}} template, I suspect that some site-wide setting somewhere automatically transcludes {{documentation}} on module pages. Where that is, I don't know. Someone at WP:VPT will likely know.

I suspect that the sandbox notice at the top of en.wiki module sandboxen is also provided by the automatic transclusion of {{documentation}}.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

First of all, thanks for deciding to help! Secondly, yes. You're correct on everything you say. Maybe the site wide MediaWiki js and css pages need to be updated. Before I dealt with them some months ago, they had been without any kind of changes for around 15 years straight if I remember right. I'll take a look on them these days and see if anything changes. - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:43, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey there! :) I updated the Mediawiki common js and css pages but unfortunately nothing changed. :/ Can you rephrase my question for me in a short way so I can ask it in the Tech Pump someday in the future? - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:50, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Is this what you want to ask?

At en.wiki, module documentation is rendered over a colored background; see for example, Module:Documentation. At sq.wiki, module documentation is rendered over an uncolored background; see for example, sq:Moduli:Documentation. What needs to be done at sq.wiki to render module documentation over a colored background in the same way that template documentation is rendered over a colored background; for example sq:Stampa:Dokumentacioni?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:14, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! I tried my luck there. If I'm able to get past this part, maybe I'll be back here with other minor interface changes that might be needed to Sq-CS1 for it to be able to resemble En-CS1. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:17, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Hey there! After Izno's help in Tech:Pump I was able to fix the background problem. Maybe you've seen it yourself. Now I wanted to fix the missing sandbox notice part in the modules' sandboxes' subpages. For that I imported a lot of template pages related to sandboxes and I believe that normally that should be enough but the problem is that the system can't find our sandboxes because we call them "Livadhi" and not "Sandbox". Given that the importation of said pages I mentioned earlier was done in a blind manner (just copy-paste and hope for the best, translation left for a future time) I don't know what exactly to change so that it starts finding our modules. (Supposedly, the sandbox notices should appear in all namespaces when applicable but they appear nowhere currently.) Whenever you have some free time, do you mind checking my last contributions (everything done today, August 2nd 2021) and maybe tell me what I should change in which page to make the above request possible? I suppose it must be only one word in each page, something like what you did earlier in our CS1 module page. Or, if you can edit those yourself, I'd be grateful as well. Anyway I'm here to help in anything you might need should you have some time to deal with that. :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:25, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Change line 200:

cfg['sandbox-subpage'] = 'sandbox' → cfg['sandbox-subpage'] = 'Livadhi'

that will get you the template. The words in the template appear to be controlled by sandboxNotice(). To translate those words find the appropriate keyword from the function in ~/config. For example 'sandbox-notice-diff-blurb' is at line 61. Translate that. Wash, rinse, repeat.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:07, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Biggest WikiLove that could be given. Now that appearance is finished, let's talk a bit about subpages. First of all, a bit of a silly question: What do you think we should do with Moduli diskutim:Citation/CS1/Feature requests? We've never gotten specific requests in regard to our citations except for the basic cry "make the evil red error go away". All these years we've relied solely on EnWiki for any kind of change and basically accept as Word of God any new update that has been made. Should that subpage be removed altogether in SqWiki? What do you think? - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:21, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Additional questions: What should I do with Moduli diskutim:Citation/CS1/COinS? What does that serve for and would a blind importation (copy-paste) help with it? How does Moduli:Cs1 documentation support exactly help? Any specific example? And lastly, when I try to create Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list by blindly importing from EnWiki, I get an error at line 1. Any idea what might be wrong? Maybe the link at SqWiki I'm following for its creation is set up wrong? - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:30, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Extra additional question: When I changed the documentation module from sandbox to Livadhi I expected it to make the notice appear in every sandbox possible. It worked perfectly on the module namespace so my job with it it's done, as to say, but I tried out the user personal sandbox (mine) out of curiosity and the notice we get on EnWiki isn't there on SqWiki. I can't try other namespaces (for example templates' sandboxes) but my guess is that those aren't covered too. How correct am I? Can that be fixed in a fast way? My interest was on fixing the CS1 interface but given that I'm working on it, might as well go all in. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:36, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

sq:Moduli diskutim:Citation/CS1/Feature requests – you probably don't need it

sq:Moduli diskutim:Citation/CS1/COinS – here that page is a documentation collection page that I started to collect information about the metadata standard that we use. I doubt that it will be any use to you; but keep it if you want ...

sq:Moduli:Cs1 documentation support – at some point you created sq:Stampa:Citation Style documentation/language/doc; the lists rendered in that page come from module:Cs1 documentation support. We use that module here for a number of things that make it easier to maintain our documentation. For example, in Help:CS1 errors we use the module to automatically create replicas of the error messages associated with each section and to create links to the associated category (all from data in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration). The error message occurs because you have an older version of Template:Div col. The new version uses TemplateStyles css that the module uses when rendering those lists.

sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list – You have to change the 'Page content model' setting to 'wikitext' (from the Tools > Page information menu at left – your words will be different)

The {{User sandbox}} in your sandbox is an automatic insertion. It has been so long that I don't remember that notice in my sandbox. To find out, I deleted my sandbox so that I got a redlink and then clicked the redlink. That gave me a blank page with the {{User sandbox}} template. If its important, WP:VPT is that way →.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:27, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the replies. I didn't know you could manually change the content model of a page. I fixed everything you mentioned. Some other questions: Why is Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list indented 1 space more than the other first 2 entries? Curiosity. Why do I get so many missing categories here? What have I done wrong during the update? I don't believe those categories really to be missing. Talking about the prop-cats. And most importantly, what are test cases? How are they used? - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Why is Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list indented 1 space more than the other first 2 entries? sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list looks correct to me. What other two entries?

Two problems:

1. sq:Kombëtarja japoneze e futbollit, for example, is creating a redlinked category sq:Kategoria:Vetitë CS1: Vlera në japonisht(ja) when the correct category title is sq:Kategoria:Vetitë CS1: Vlera në japonisht (ja) which exists but is unpopulated. Fix this line.
2. The Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list is turning up redlinked, English-language named categories because the category names don't exist in the ~/Configuration modules. The names and links to those categories are created on the fly by Moduli:Cs1 documentation support script_cat_lister(). Translation needed.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:18, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

1. I mean here: Other documentation:. You get three entries not indented and Module:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list is indented with 1 space. Is that because it is considered a subentry of Module:Cs1 documentation support?
2. I fixed it.
3. I made this change. Results changed a bit but language names still persist on English. Anything that can be done? - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:43, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Indented because sq:Moduli:Cs1 documentation support creates sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc/Category list

Change line 683 from 'en' to 'sq'.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:30, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Works like a charm! What do I do with Ottoman Turkish (ota) which doesn't follow format. Should I remap it somehow? - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:04, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

PS: Categories for languages' scripts with ISO codes (bo) and (dz) are currently missing at EnWiki. Can you create them so I do the Wikidata connections? I'm afraid I might forget to do it later. :P - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:24, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

You will have to add ota to lang_code_remap{} and lang_name_remap{} or not bother until there is something in that category. I have created Category:CS1 uses Tibetan-language script (bo) but not created the others because there is nothing in them. When it comes time to update the module suite again, I may decide to delete dz and ota – no point in supporting something that isn't bein used.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:02, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Okay then. I'm not making any changes because I don't want to create and then redelete the same category for nothing. Now, can you tell me a bit about test cases? How are they used on Wikipedia? How do they differ from Sandbox pages? CS1 has 4 test cases. Should we import those? They also come equipped with a "Run" link. What should we do with that? I have no information whatsoever in regard to test cases and that's the only thing I am left to deal with. - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:40, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The testcases automatically compare the output of the sandbox module-suite against the live module-suite. It is a way for us to know if we've broken something when making changes in the sandbox. You can see that there are a lot of 'broken' tests. The key is to know what is broken because we expect it to be broken versus something that is broken that should not be broken; many of those broken tests are expected to be broken because the new output is intended to be different from the old output. Were I you, I would not worry about our testcases.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:05, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Hmm... Interesting... I removed that functionality from us then. As a last question, now that I finished everything (I only need to worry about some minor translations in the docs of CS1's subpages) can you maybe help me understand why our colors and box outlines render differently than the ones here? Check the 3 templates at the top here and here. It's really strange because we have the same exact templates. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

There is a bot here that gets template and module page transclusion-counts and writes them to a data module (Module:Transclusion_count/data/C for the cs1 modules). When there is a data module available and the template or module is listed in the appropriate data page, {{high-use}} will use that value. The content and border of the rendered message box is determined by the count greater than 100,000; your count, were the bot operating at sq.wiki is about 18,000. See Template:High-use § Technical details.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:22, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Oooh! So it is working as intended. Yes, I learned about that bot just yesterday but I didn't know about the differences in the template. I'm holding a conversation with its operator right now. Take a quick look if you want. Thank you for everything then! I believe this is all I had to ask. To end it, is there any planned update for CS1 that I should look out for? I mean, any set up date anytime soon? I got reminded when you said that you'd remove those categories in the next update. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:55, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Also, I'm sorry to ask again but I'm confused: Can you please check our full suite of CS1, sandboxes included, and tell me why am I getting a golden padlock template in most of them, not to say all of them while that's not happening in here? I've dealt with so many templates and modules today that "I've lost track" of basic things like these. Sorry... - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:14, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't think that I know what you mean. Are you talking about the table 'Modulet CS1 | CS2'? or something else? None of your sandboxen are protected. The left-most column of the table, 'Versionet aktuale' show the fully-protected lock for the live templates (you might want to change that column to be rowspan="9" and remove [[File:Semi-protection-shackle.svg|20px|alt=Silver padlock|link=|auto confirmed]] || from the last row.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:24, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Good observation! I did that, thank you! I mean the big template you get at the top of the page though. This module is subject to page protection. It is a highly visible module in use by a very large number of pages, or is substituted very frequently. Because vandalism or mistakes would affect many pages, and even trivial editing might cause substantial load on the servers, it is protected from editing. This template with the aforementioned text is also on sandbox pages which aren't protected. You don't have it and neither should we (for the same reason). - Klein Muçi (talk) 20:40, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

sq:Stampa:Sandbox other expects to see sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1/sandbox, but instead sees sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1/Livadhi so presumes that Moduli:Citation/CS1/Livadhi is not a sandbox.

Shouldn't sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1/Livadhi/doc redirect to sq:Moduli:Citation/CS1/doc?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:47, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, apparently it should. :P

Interesting... Can you pinpoint what should I change in that template to let it know how to say sandbox in Albanian? :P - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

sandbox → Livadhi (2×)?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:55, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Way easier than expected. :P Well, I think I managed to fix everything. Thank you a lot for your help! :)) - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:04, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Question out of curiosity: "Shouldn't" the css subpage be in the end of the table, after the suggestions subpage? Given that it is the only page that has a format different from the other subpages? (Childish me dislikes the fact that you have no nav-table there and if you go there, you're "stuck".) What's the logic behind the overall order? - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:10, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Until someone abuses the privilege, the live ~/Suggestions page is editable by most everyone whereas the stylesheet is not so all of the fully protected modules are grouped together.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:25, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah! Yes. Forgot about that detail. Well, in that case, I believe I can switch the order in SqWiki and it wouldn't bring any problems. Thanks for letting me know! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:46, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

[Persecution of pagans in late Roman Empire]

I am trying to learn how to do these Harvard citations so as not to use for additional pages from one reference, and I thought I had it figured out - until you came along and changed it. Can you help me understand? I need to learn this and I am clearly not getting it. There was no red when I was done and no red when you are done and how can that be? Can you help? Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:07, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

In the current version of the article, I see six errors that were present before my edit. Those references are:

• 29
• 30
• 56
• 137
• 142
• 143

References 29, 30, and 137 use R. Malcolm Errington's whole name and omit the year. The (apparently) matching {{sfnref}} template has 'R. Malcom Errington'. Names must match exactly.

Reference 56 identifies a work by Brown published in 1997 for which there is no matching citation.

References 142 and 143 correctly identify Bayliss' 2004 work but the matching citation uses {{sfnref|Bayliss}}.

Further, this, while not an error per se, is just ugly.

In general, simple is best so let the cs1|2 citation templates create the anchor identifiers (using |ref={{sfnref|...}} overrides that). Use only surnames in {{sfn}} and always include a year unless there isn't a year. These steps are usually sufficient to disambiguate an author for whom there are multiple works being referenced (Errington and Brown in this case).

I noticed this which is the citation with the misspelled {{sfnref}}:

{{cite journal |last1=Errington |first1=R. Malcolm |title=Constantine and the Pagans |journal=Errington, R. Malcolm. "Constantine and the Pagans." Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies |date=1988 |volume=29 |issue=3 |pages=309–318|ref={{sfnref|R. Malcom Errington}}}}

I presume that you really meant to write:

{{cite journal |last1=Errington |first1=R. Malcolm |title=Constantine and the Pagans |journal=Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies |date=1988 |volume=29 |issue=3 |pages=309–318}}

the {{sfn}} templates for this (29, 30, and 137) would look like:

{{sfn|Errington|1988|pp=309–310}}

{{sfn|Errington|1988|p=312}}

{{sfn|Errington|1988|p=317}}

There are tools that can help you see these errors. See Category:Harv and Sfn template errors.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:42, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

User page

Hi. I was wondering if you could create your user page even if it is blank, because some editors like myself check edits of editors with no user page, thinking they might be new and may or may not be making a legitimate edit. I have seen you around for some time now and I know you are an established editor, but from time to time I inadvertently check your edits because you have a red linked user page. Have a nice one. Thinker78 (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'm not going to do that. I actually want editors to check my work; if a red-linked user page gets editors to check my work then, all the better.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:24, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

CS1 Help Page - Meta

Hey there! Lately some users from our community have started translating A LOT of things from TranslateWiki and Meta Wiki in regard to SqWiki. I felt bad thinking that for years our help page of CS1 has been only partly translated (less than 25%, I believe) because it's only me who occasionally works on it. To be honest, I got further demotivated in working with it when I saw that you continuously updated its content (rightly so), even retroactively and since then, it's been a while since I've contributed anything new to it. Now I was thinking that maybe if it was part of one of the 2 wikis mentioned above some of the said users could also help with it and the more I thought about it, the more it seemed like a good idea. Do you think that having the said help page as part of Meta could benefit the global community more? I mean, the translation infrastructure is certainly easier there. And basically we'd be "notified" for every change/update that it gets. Is there any way you'd be interested in somehow transporting the said information from here to there? Are there any cons I'm not thinking of in this? I mean, sure, the templates would be lacking a bit I suppose but nothing that can't be fixed, right? I've almost never worked in Meta (apart from casual translation) so I don't know for sure. :/ - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:20, 8 August 2021 (UTC)