User talk:William M. Connolley

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There is no Cabal
Fancy a scull? Bridge-to-bridge: 12:23; 12:28; headcourse 13:25.
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To speak to another with consideration, to appear before him with decency and humility, is to honour him; as signs of fear to offend. To speak to him rashly, to do anything before him obscenely, slovenly, impudently is to dishonour. Leviathan, X.

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I'm Number 10

ERA40 Juli 1979, omega at 500 hPa[edit]

Dear Dr. Connolley,

with interest I have studied this figure.


I wonder why there is such a strong down-draft over the eastern Mediterranean. Is it a special feature of the large Indian monsoon anticyclone and if so why is it downwelling right there? Thank you in advance for any help on this. Kind regards, Hella Riede 18:33, 25 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

Thermal underwear[edit]

Idealized greenhouse model, or the section below
Thermal trousers with special emission properties

May I ask a question? I stress that I am not trying to do any original research, but only want to improve the GW article by explaining what is fundamental to the AGW hypothesis. I don't think the current article really explains it very well.

My question: I did some Googling and the Stefan-Boltzmann equation (or rather a derivative of it) seems to be fundamental. But there are two versions of it, as follows:

  • S0/4*(1-alpha) = e*sigmaT^4
  • S0/4*(1-alpha)+G = sigmaT^4

where alpha is albedo, S0 is a constant solar radiative flux (units W/m^2), T is temp in K, and sigma is a constant. The two sides of the equation both have units W/m^2.

In the first equation e is 'emissivity' which is unitless and is the ratio of energy radiated by a particular material to energy radiated by a black body at the same temperature. I think of it as an 'underpants factor'. You have a black body throbbing with radiation, which will cool unless you keep it warm. So you put some underpants on it, to keep the cold out, i.e. stop it radiating so much. Hence CO2 and water vapour are like thermal underwear to keep the earth warm (if e is 100%, the temperature is about -18 deg C, for if you solve for e with current temperature, assume 15 deg C, you find e is about 60%). I am assuming e is constant whatever the temperature for exactly the same material, is that correct? In reality e will change as the material of the atmosphere changes (more CO2, or more vapour).

In the second equation G is a number, units also W/m^2, which is a measure of the influence a factor has in altering the balance of incoming and outgoing energy in the Earth-atmosphere system. If you solve for G for 15 deg C, you get about 150 W/m^2.

My puzzle is whether G is also constant, if for other reasons (e.g. change in solar radiation, change in albedo) the temperature changes. Intuitively it won't be constant. Why represent it this way?

Apologise if I have misunderstood, and please correct any mistakes (I am quite new to this, but it is interesting). Again, I am not trying to do any research, just finding out some facts that could be put into layman's language and hopefully into the article. I think thermal underwear is a better analogy than greenhouses, e.g. HistorianofScience (talk) 11:52, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I really don't think all this talk of underwear and throbbing bodies is appropriate. Please keep such impulses to yourself. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
You are the Walrus and you talk about throbbing bodies? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
My personal preference is for exploding underpants, but they banned them :-( William M. Connolley (talk) 19:31, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually it was Long Johns I was looking for but couldn't find the category until now. Anyway I prefer the leather ones. Seriously, can anyone answer my question above ? HistorianofScience (talk) 19:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I think you're looking for the one-sentence summary of the greenhouse effect, which is the earth is warmer with an atmosphere, because it receives heat from both the sun and the atmosphere. Your G, above, is the heat from the atmosphere. Put that way, it becomes obvious that G is not contstant, in time (long or short term) or space William M. Connolley (talk) 20:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation but I'm still not sure I understand. Suppose we turned off the sun like an electric light. Then the earth no longer receives heat from the sun. Does it still receive heat from the atmosphere?
Until the atmosphere cools down, yes. Then no William M. Connolley (talk) 20:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Surely not. Isn't the correct explanation that the atmosphere is acting like a blanket around the earth, preventing it from cooling as fast as a black body would?
No. You need to read what I wrote and understand it. Until you do, you will get nowhere William M. Connolley (talk) 20:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
So it's not heating the earth, it's preventing it from cooling as fast as it would in the black body case.
No William M. Connolley (talk) 20:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
And the heat energy it is losing should be identical, at the instant the sun turns off, to what it was receiving from the sun. If that is correct, G is the difference between the W/m^2 that the black body would emit, and the W/m^2 actually emitted. No? HistorianofScience (talk) 20:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
As a very very broad-brush approximation, the atmosphere receives no heat directly from the sun, since it is transparent to SW. The atmosphere is heated by LW from the earth (which itself, of course, is ultimately sourced from SW from the sun absorbed at the earth's sfc. Can you cope with maths? If you can, this is easily written down - indeed it is somewhere, I only need to point you at it William M. Connolley (talk) 20:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I can cope with maths. HistorianofScience (talk) 20:46, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Would it be more like those rude transparent underpants then? [2] HistorianofScience (talk) 20:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Fine. Writing it all out is quicker than finding it, so... simplifying, the sun shines 4S units on the uniform earth (and since the area of a circle is 1/4 the area of a corresponding sphere the 4 drops out), which is a black body (forget albedo for the moment, it makes no real difference). The atmosphere is transparent to SW, and can be considered as a single layer not in conductive contact with the surface. There is no diurnal cycle, all is averaged out, all is in equilibrium.

So at the sfc (with atmosphere) we have the following equation:

S + G = rT^4

(the surface is black, captures all solar SW and transforms it into LW which it re-radiates) and G is the radiation from the atmosphere. Meanwhile, in the atmosphere,

2G = rT^4

(the atmospheric layer is totally opaque to the surface LW, is itself isothermal, and being a layer radiates both up and downwards). As it happens G = r(T_a)^4 but we don't care about that for tihs analysis.

Hence, S + G = 2G, hence S = G, hence T_1 = (2S/r)^0.25. Meanwhile, in the absence of the atmosphere, we clearly would have T_2 = (S/r)^0.25. T_1 > T_2 (by a factor of 2^0.25) and (T_1 - T_2) is the greenhouse effect.

William M. Connolley (talk) 21:02, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, this [3] and the linked [4] also refers, but is harder William M. Connolley (talk) 21:12, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks (appreciated).
How do you get from S + G = rT^4 to 2G = rT^4 without the assumption that S=G (which you later derive). The intervening bracketed "the atmospheric layer is totally opaque to the surface LW, is itself isothermal, and being a layer radiates both up and downwards). " seems like an explanation, but I didn't understand it.
The atmospheric layer absorbs all the surface LW, which is the rT^4. It is in equilibrium. It radiates , equally, upwards and downwards, G. So it gains rT^4 and loses 2G, so those two are equal William M. Connolley (talk) 22:05, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
If the earth receives all the SW, then reflects it back to the layer, why do you say earlier that the layer heats the earth? Why isn't it the other way round.
No, it doesn't reflect the SW - it is assumed black. It absorbs all the SW and re-radiates it as LW. Yes, "the earth heats the atmosphere" can also be regarded as true William M. Connolley (talk) 22:05, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time. HistorianofScience (talk) 21:51, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Blast from the past[edit]

Not to creep you out, but I was looking through old RfAs and I found this, from your second, and succesful, RfA. To the question of: How do you see Wikipedia in 2010 ?

OK, for what its worth, here is the rest: I see wikipedia continuing its growth and influence. The problems of scaling will continue: how to smoothly adapt current practices to a larger community. At the moment this appears to be working mostly OK. Problems exist with the gap between arbcomm level and admin level: I expect this to have to be bridged/changed someway well before 2010. I very much hope more experts - from my area of interests, particularly scientists - will contribute: at the moment all too few do. To make this work, we will have to find some way to welcome and encourage them and their contributions without damaging the wiki ethos. This isn't working terribly well at the moment. I predict that wiki will still be a benevolent dictatorship in 2010 - the problems of transition to full user sovereignty are not worth solving at this stage. William M. Connolley 20:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC).

Thought you'd be amused. Shadowjams (talk) 07:02, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Hmm yes. "Prediction is hard, especially of the future" as they say William M. Connolley (talk) 08:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Ha. So they say. I'm really good at the past prediction part though. Shadowjams (talk) 08:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

More thermals[edit]

All at Idealized greenhouse model it seems

Thanks for your explanation which I am afraid I still don't really follow. I don't see how 'the earth heats the atmosphere' and 'the atmosphere heats the earth' can both be true.

  • If it is true that none of the SW affects the atmosphere and that the earth reflects LW as a result, then the earth is the cause of the warming. Indeed couldn't we ignore the sun entirely, turn it off and install a large amount of patio heaters all round the earth pointing upwards at the sky: this would have the same effect.
  • I didn't understand the both directions stuff "It [the atmosphere] radiates , equally, upwards and downwards". Maybe it does, but, unless there is a net outflow of LW heat energy from the earth to balance the SW coming in, the temperature of the earth will not be at equilibrium. A net flow can only be in one direction, by definition.
  • The net outflow from the earth must be exactly balanced by the outflow at the edge of the atmosphere, otherwise the atmosphere would continue heat up. The atmosphere is hotter than the earth's surface because the outflow from the atmosphere has to occur at a higher temperature than the same outflow from the earth. So, the earth is the 'efficient cause' of the heating of the atmosphere, surely. HistorianofScience (talk) 20:05, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

You've dropped down into words (some of which are wrong: as I've said before, Earth doesn't reflect LW. It is black in LW). It is clearer if you use maths. Or pix, perhaps. Lets try:
                   G ^    V Solar input. (4S ->) S
                Atmosphere. Emits G, up and down, thermal radiation. Absorbs S+G.
                     |    |
                     |    V Solar straight through - atmos transparent, still S
                   G V

                                      ^ S+G
                Sfc. Abs S(SW)+G(LW). Thus emits (S+G)(LW). Thus S+G = rT^4

Clear now? William M. Connolley (talk) 20:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, apart from the bit about not reflecting LW (that seemed picky, unless I misunderstood it), which of my claims was wrong? I said that the net outflow from earth to atmosphere has to be upwards. And that this outflow has to be exactly equal to the outflow from the atmosphere into space. Your diagram is incomprehensible. And what about Greenhouse effect where it says "Radiation is emitted both upward, with part escaping to space, and downward toward Earth's surface, making our life on earth possible." This is entirely wrong isn't it? It gives the impression that we are safe because only part of the radiation escapes to space, but the rest is trapped behind & keeps us snug and warm. The reality is that the net outflow from the earth has to be exactly balanced by the outflow at the edge of the atmosphere into space. Otherwise the atmosphere would keep on heating up until equilibrium was restored. HistorianofScience (talk) 20:31, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

[edit] The unclearness of the diagram is the omission of the causality. You have the atmosphere radiating G downwards, e.g. Yes but where does the G come from? If we were to start with turning on the sun like a switch, at that instant there would be no G from the atmosphere. In which case the first thing to hit the earth would be S. Then earth would emit (not reflect) S. With no G. HistorianofScience (talk) 20:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Like I say, you need the maths and the pix, not the words. The diagram is a steady state. We can re-draw it, if you like, for an Earth at 0K above which the sun has just been turned on:
                   0 ^    V Solar input. (4S ->) S
                Atmosphere. At 0K. Doesn't radiate.
                     |    |
                     |    V Solar straight through - atmos transparent, still S
                   0 V

                                      ^ 0
                Sfc. Abs S(SW)+0(LW). At 0K. Doesn't radiate.
So now in this pix you see that the atmos is still in equilibrium, at 0K, but the Earth isn't: It is absorbing S but radiating nothing. So it will warm up, yes? So after a bit we get something like this:
                   0 ^    V Solar input. (4S ->) S
                Atmosphere. At 0K. Doesn't radiate.
                     |    |
                     |    V Solar straight through - atmos transparent, still S
                   0 V

                                      ^ G_T
                Sfc. Abs S(SW)+0(LW). Has warmed up somewhat, to T. Emits rT^4, call this G_T.

So now the sfc has warmed up somewhat, so it is emitting G_T in the LW. Now the atmosphere isn't in balance: it is absorbing G_T but emitting nothing, since it is at 0K. So it will warm up. So it will start emitting downwards an warm further. And eventually we end up with the equilibrium solution William M. Connolley (talk) 21:47, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Service award update[edit]

Editor - lapis philosophorum star.jpg
Hello, William M. Connolley! The requirements for the service awards have been updated, and you may no longer be eligible for the award you currently display. Don't worry! Since you have already earned your award, you are free to keep displaying it. However, you may also wish to update to the current system.

Sorry for any inconvenience. — the Man in Question (in question) 10:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Argh, I hate it when these things change :-( Oh well, I'll see if the new one looks any prettier than the old :-) William M. Connolley (talk) 12:59, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Dynamic topography[edit]

To William and his talk page stalkers:

Would you (ambiguously singular or plural) like to expand the portion of "Dynamic topography" that is about the oceans?

I am planning on doing some expansion of the solid-Earth-geophysics portion of that article (which currently covers both the dynamically-supported ocean elevations and topography due to motion of material in the mantle), but I think it would be a disservice to continue to ignore the ocean part. Ideally, we would have two separate standalone articles.

Awickert (talk) 17:26, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Good point. How analogous are they? I never got through reading Gill, so maybe now is my chance :-) William M. Connolley (talk) 18:29, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, I don't know anything about it in the oceans; in the Earth it is due to motion in the mantle that creates normal tractions on interfaces such as the surface, the upper/lower mantle discontinuity, the core-mantle boundary, etc. Since it is supposed to be about the motion of seawater, I can imagine how the physics could be identical, but I can't say for sure and about to head out the door: off to see a friend perform in Guettarda's favorite musical, Awickert (talk) 18:51, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Careful. That is pretty clear evidence of a Cabal, or possibly a Cadre William M. Connolley (talk) 19:22, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Cadre, I think. In our obligatory red shirts. Guettarda (talk) 21:38, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking about "Gang of N." It has a nice math/science ring to it, and evokes the Gang of Four. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:25, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
While "Gang of N" has a certain ring to it (the definitions are so amorphous, no one can agree how many there are), I think "Gang of i" might be more appropriate. Guettarda (talk) 03:43, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I was totally baffled by "Guettarda's favourite musical"...until I remembered that conversation. It was especially puzzling since I've never seen it, have no idea what it's actually about, and don't even know what comes after the second "Oklahoma!" Guettarda (talk) 21:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
It's a good one - you should see it. Back to the topic: if it turns out that the underlying physics are the same, but just expressed in different media, I bet we could leave it at one article. If they are fundamentally different, then let's split. Awickert (talk) 01:21, 9 May 2010 (UTC)



All the stupidity in one convenient place

PD initial thoughts[edit]

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change/Proposed decision looks about as stupid as I'd expected, though not as stupid as some others expected. The failure of any meaningful remedies for admin involvement, which wrecked the CC probation, is a flaw. But to be fair, the PD is capable of becoming moderately sensible with the correct votes. The real test is who votes for that William M. Connolley (talk) 11:15, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it's utterly useless, actually. It's a standard 'ban one from each side' decision. While the proposed principles do identify some of the problems (sourcing, due & undue weight), it's like they forgot about them beyond that point. There's nothing in that decision which actually suggests that they read any of the evidence or workshop, or did anything to actually educate themselves about what's going on. And there's absolutely nothing in that decision that will do anything to defuse the situation. Guettarda (talk) 11:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
You are likely right, though it will depend on the voting. What puzzles me is how they took so long over this - any fool could have scrawled that on the back of a fag packet in 5 mins from the opening of the case William M. Connolley (talk) 12:01, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
They have not gotten hold of the situation by the scruff of the neck and it appears that Lar agrees on this. This has not really solved anything. WEAK WEAK WEAK Polargeo (talk) 12:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps intentionally so. There seemed to be an intent to lower the volume of the controversy by doing the bare minimum. ScottyBerg (talk) 12:11, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
An acceptable strategy if CC enforcement was not in place already but not acceptable if there is a failled system overseeing CC enforcement. Arbcom has effectively endorsed a failled system. Polargeo (talk) 12:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
(ec) I doubt it. If you haven't already, read Boris' Pocket Guide to Arbitration. That pretty much sums it up. I have seen dozens of cases that simply default to something like this - ignore the underlying issues, and hand out a few bans. Arbitration enforcement (AE) was an innovation a couple years back, which helped a little. So it's now thrown at every case as well. This result could have been written without looking at the case. In fact, it was, if you look at what the vandal was posting on the PD page yesterday. They captured the essence of the decision. Guettarda (talk) 12:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
So a cry going out to all editors. Lets get rid of enforcement as a community and replace it with somthing better, agreed by all and not depending on arbcom. Polargeo (talk) 12:50, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I would want to see all editors involved in this. Polargeo (talk) 12:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
The CC enforcement failed, because it was hijacked by involved admins pretending to be uninvolved. There is no sign of arbcomm dealing with this, nor any sign of the community being able to William M. Connolley (talk) 12:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Absolutely. I often feel that it was my lone voice when I discovered CC probation and realised that it was not fully community approved but being strongly pushed by a couple of editors that things were going badly wrong. Polargeo (talk) 12:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Replacement of the CC enforcement page with Arbitration Enforcement, which presumably gets a wider readership, was a good idea. One general comment: in retrospect, the process is amazingly opaque. This may seem like a newbie sentiment and it is, but to somebody looking at this process fresh it is amazingly contrary to Wikipedia practices, almost like a star chamber. First people have to make proposals, not having any idea if they'll be entertained by the committee. Then the committee deliberates like a jury for weeks or months. The process needs to be opened up. ScottyBerg (talk) 13:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
@PG: I think we're actually in disagreement, at least in part. I think you view the entirety of the CC probation as bad. I think it could have been helpful, after being setup, had it not been subsequently hijacked by Lar and LHVU William M. Connolley (talk) 13:15, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes but what you don't appreciate is that I had been dealing with enforcement on balkans articles and only saw CC probation as bad and a poor solution based on experience, I found no agreement at the time unfortunately. Polargeo (talk) 13:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

The PD is exactly as many of the Cabal members expected -- it's well known that Risker and Rlevse despise you, and the long delay was because they had to win over Brad to get sufficiently humiliating sanctions. As I have pointed out elsewhere, the arbs pay little or no attention to the Evidence/Workshop pages and base their decisions on broad impressions of who the good guys and bad guys are. (It has to be said that your recent actions gave R/R ammunition.) I think Risker's tactic here has been to set the Overton window at her desired boundary; the final decision may not be as extreme. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:26, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Ah, you mean initially propose something totally absurd, and hope the rest are too dumb to notice that the final result is still absurd? Anyway, NYB gets his first two tests here [6] William M. Connolley (talk) 13:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I've tended to bend over backwards and to say that arbcom needs time to do this, that they need to read the evidence to make a thoughtful decision. Now I see how wrong I was. This wasn't a thoughtful decision. It doesn't even pretend to be a thoughtful decision. It certainly doesn't read as if it had been carefully hammered out. I was definitely naive in my expectations.ScottyBerg (talk) 14:44, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Ah, glasshopper, you have much to learn. Meanwhile NYB wimped out of his test so now everyone gets their chance William M. Connolley (talk) 14:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
It was a reasonable position to take. You're just not an old cynic like some of us. In general terms, the decision is entirely in keeping with Boris' Guide to Arbitration. In specific terms, the vandal got it pretty much right (taking into account the fact that the vandal's version was parody). Guettarda (talk) 15:35, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
There was a lot of truth to that parody, apart from it being very funny. With some modifications it might be usable as a comedy essay. ScottyBerg (talk) 17:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC) if anyone is wondering William M. Connolley (talk) 17:30, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
The only thing I don't like about it is the snide reference to articles on the NY Subway system. Some of us are into that. ScottyBerg (talk) 19:31, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
If it doesn't offend you in some way, then it's not good satire. Guettarda (talk) 19:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change/Proposed_decision#Statement_by_WMC, in case you missed it William M. Connolley (talk) 22:43, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

PD continuing thoughts[edit]

More thunks

Rlevse has gorn [7]. That's interesting. There is no hint of why, though. Can't say I'm sorry but it would be interesting to know why. R has done some really wacky things with the PD William M. Connolley (talk) 15:40, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Naughty boy, you ignored Boris' warning to keep a low profile and not to challenge the faulty system too much, yet again. But like last time, your opponents exploited your actions a bit too vigorously, causing their efforts to backfire on them. Count Iblis (talk) 17:13, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Arbcom is coming down heavily in favor of Lar and his faction, going so far as to rewrite the definition of "uninvolved" so as to specifically exclude Lar. WP:ADMIN sez "Involvement is generally construed very broadly by the community, to include current or past conflicts with an editor (or editors) and disputes on topics, regardless of the nature, age, or outcome of the dispute." Notice how Arbcom has refudiated the "current or past conflicts with an editor (or editors)" bit and focused solely on content? It's hard to escape the conclusion that Arbcom knew what they wanted to decide long ago, and are assembling the evidence and rewriting policy to fit their preferred outcome. So at the end of the day it wouldn't have mattered if WMC had behaved himself. They were going to nail him no matter what. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 17:20, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm surprised to hear you say that. I don't see that supported by the current round of votes, though who knows what the future will bring William M. Connolley (talk) 18:53, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

FoF thoughts[edit]

It all came true for GJP, M4th, ZP5, JWB. But still arbcomm fail to see the obvious

I'm minded to put forward a couple of extra FoF's:

  • GJP has been disruptive (I think the totally inapproriate GA review at a time when people were trying to step back was the most obvious; now reversed, happily [8])
  • Minor4th has been disruptive
  • ZP5 has been disruptive (in the sense that his disruption to valuable content ratio is infinite)
  • JohnWBarber has been disruptive

Other obvious ones are ATren and Cla. [Oops - forgot JWB, the other obvious one. Added belatedly William M. Connolley (talk) 07:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)]

Thoughts? William M. Connolley (talk) 18:46, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm chatting with ATren at the moment, who seems (in spite of our disagreements) to be a decent well-meaning fellow.
I would be opposed to any sort of trouble for Cla68; he is a good content contributor and plays by the rules, and I find his behavior to be generally very respectable. Awickert (talk) 18:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Mixed feelings. Cla68 is good at following the letter of the law but disregards its spirit when it suits him. I find his view that we should prefer newspapers above the peer-reviewed literature to be deeply disturbing, but he may come by it honestly given that he appears to have no understanding at all of the scientific aspects of the articles. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:53, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
I think that this is Cla68's background: he does a very good job of writing various history articles. In all of my interactions with him, he has been very reasonable, so I am sure that we will be able to work out the sourcing issue with him. I feel that, of all of the above, he is by far the most likely to do a substantial amount of useful writing. Awickert (talk) 18:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Cla is fine on milhist, I presume; and if he stayed there, all would be well. If you want to see bad faith from him, then Talk:Intergovernmental_Panel_on_Climate_Change#InterAcademy_Council_report will do. Or his repeated attempts to insert HSI as a reference William M. Connolley (talk) 20:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Anybody remember his antics on the Warm period article? That was strange. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Who could forget As far back as geological proxy measurements go, each warm period has been followed by a cool period. Ed Poor loved it. Though admittedly, I had forgotten. Mind you, Don't you think it would be more helpful to then change the article text to fit what the ref's say? was quite a classic too William M. Connolley (talk) 20:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Might also be worth noting the addition of blog-sourced content to a BLP by Minor4th, which failed to evince the usual moral panic by subsequent editors. Granted, it's a step up from Cla68 and Tillman trying to source content from blog comments, but it's still (a) a BLP, and (b) potentially embarrassing. Guettarda (talk) 19:19, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Cla68 insight? Actually, the whole WR thread is interesting and indicative that there is some synergistic sharing between Lar, Cla68, and Moulton. ScienceApologist (talk) 22:07, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change[edit]

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following is a summary of the remedies enacted:

Stupidity collapsed, though it is still there, alas

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee,
Dougweller (talk) 14:59, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

It is regrettable that you have to work for such poor masters William M. Connolley (talk) 20:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Final decision: thoughts[edit]

Yet more thunks

Of the decision:

  • the "scorched earth" idea is unthinking and stupid.
  • arbcomm demonstrate again an inability to distinguish the valuable from the valueless; indeed, they appear to be too lazy to even try.
  • in pursuit of their atque ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant they have failed to notice that peace has already broken out. For two reasons: the worst of the "skeptics" (MN, M4th, Cla, ATren, TGL) are all gone; and the external forcing (Climatic Research Unit email controversy‎) has been resolved in favour of Climate Science. So all the disruption was for nothing.

About the only good thing about the PD is that it is so obviously bad, it is likely to rebound more to the discredit of arbcomm than anyone else.

Of the process:

  • more of it should be open. There were very clearly extensive periods when off-wiki emails between the arbs were the main means of discussion. Some of that must be tolerable, but not to the extent that it is done. The arbs have become as addicted to secrecy as the Civil Service, and it is not good: both because of the dark deeds done in darkness (one example: the unexplained but welcome booting out of Rlevse) and because lack of on-wiki information fostered unease amongst the participants.
  • the arbs need to be more involved, and to manage the process. Some are lazy, but none are good. This isn't acceptable. It has become near-expected practice in arbcomm cases for nothing but a few gnomic utterances from arbs during the case. The sheer volume of evidence and discussion produced by petty back-and-forth needs to be rigourously policed. Arbcomm as a whole is fairly lazy, in that they don't really evaluate the actual abckground to a case - that would be too much trouble, and they never bother. Instead, they rely on behaviour *during* a case, and part of their technique is a deliberate fostering of the possibility for disorder, in order to give them a lazy way of deciding. In this case, arbcomm gave a clear signal right at the start that evidence limits could be ignored. It was downhill from there.

Of the arbs:

  • none of them emerge with any credit.

William M. Connolley (talk) 08:47, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Did you notice the Hipocrite slapped a retired template up? Even though he said it wasn't due to the case, I think it was for the most part. I find it sad that a lot of long term editors just gave up after this case. Do you think Verbal will be back? I didn't think we lose so many long term editors like this. I am actually surprised in one way but in the other way I guess it's to be expected.  :( --CrohnieGalTalk 18:49, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
A discussion is now underway somewhere as to whether it's kosher to have a section such as the one below, discussing scholarly articles proposed by the Banned. It's so utterly bizarre, but to someone familiar with Wikipedia it would seem routine. Of course, to one of the most active (and unsanctioned) CC editors, my very act of posting on this page would be considered... I forget the words he used. Fraternizing with the unclean? ScottyBerg (talk) 19:05, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Could not see the discussion anywhere. FWIW I think any conversation which people bring here ought to be ok, as long as it stays here and does not get directly cited as part of an argument anywhere else. Ought, because I haven't got time to read the exact ruling but practically speaking it is much better for everyone if any such conversations stay here and visible rather than disappear on to email. Isn't there something about a prophet living in a tree whom people travelled to consult which even fits with one of the pictures....--BozMo talk 20:53, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
It's at ScottyBerg (talk) 20:54, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Some valid concerns are being raised in that discussion, but valid only in the Wikipedia sense. Outside of Wikipedia, I'd think that trying to prevent scientists from listing sources would be viewed with amazement. ScottyBerg (talk) 20:57, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree with most everything you said in your analysis apart from the juicy gossip that I cannot directly verify. One comment, though: it's been perennially easy to be hard on arbcom; in fact, it won't take too much digging in my history to see my take on them. It seems to me now that they're basically doing exactly what the committee was designed to do when it was first set-up. Wikipedia and arbcom are both intentionally dysfunctional because the only way the content could have been created and given its high Google-ranks in the first place was to open it to the peanut-gallery that is the internet. What we have entrenched now is a culture that values inane process over efficiency, brute force over nuance, and immature niceties over intellectual heft. Sounds like any other internet microcosm to me. ScienceApologist (talk) 19:41, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
It's unquestionable that the process was far more opaque than it should have been, and took too long. I think that everyone involved except the arbs would agree with that. Email deliberations have their place, but there was far too little communication with the parties. ScottyBerg (talk) 20:45, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
It's been that way in every arbitration case since 2005 as far as I can tell. Additionally, with every arbcom election, there are candidates who get elected who promise to change the system, and they all end up either resigning or changing their minds. The opacity was intentional and has always been a part of Wikipedia as far as I can tell. Obviously, there are scenarios where private communications are needed, but for whatever reason arbcom tends to function primarily on this level to their own detriment.
I think the model of the US Supreme Court is much better. Let disputants make statements and enter evidence. Then let arbcom ask questions. Then shut everything down. Arbcom comes back with a singular ruling and opposing minority opinions with signatures.
ScienceApologist (talk) 21:43, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
That, actually, would be my favored model because it would tend to promote coherent decisions and better expressed dissent. Odds of being able to reform ArbCom to work this way: internal (ArbCom) support: 25%, external (community) support: 0.01%. If lucky. — Coren (talk) 00:27, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
That seems like it might work, actually. Anybody know what the procedure is to have it implemented? Maybe an RFC to gauge support,. and the closing consensus is the community's recommendation to the Committee? The WordsmithCommunicate 03:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
ArbCom does not answer to the community, only to Jimbo. So, one has to ask Jimbo if he would be willing to consider community proposals to reform the ArbCom system. Count Iblis (talk) 14:44, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree that having arbcomm ask questions would be the correct way to work. I disagree that people would disagree. Furthermore, I don't think arbcomm's way of working is anywhere set in stone - it is just How They Do Stuff. The could do it differently for the next case, if they chose to. Coren blaming-the-community-in-advance for arbcomm's failure to reform itself is a Poor Show William M. Connolley (talk) 22:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

This [11] edit by H is good: both for the identification of the same flaw in the system as discussed above; and for the note about dirty backroom dealing William M. Connolley (talk) 21:02, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Late thought: arbcomm cases, when raised, should be complete. So no evidence should be considered that concerns behaviour after the case is accepted William M. Connolley (talk) 19:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Issues...few seem to understand[edit]

More obsessive secrecy from arbcomm[edit]

[12] William M. Connolley (talk) 16:04, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Given the limited amount of checkusers, it's fairly easy to check their block logs. No other checkuser has blocked any accounts as PG socks. (Unless they suppressed the block...) There was 1 rangeblock Special:Contributions/ -Atmoz (talk) 17:45, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Err, maybe, but that wasn't the question, was it? I'm a bit baffled - what did I say that you interpreted as that being the answer to?
Also, that range is BAS. Possibly all of it. This stinks of paranoia William M. Connolley (talk) 18:01, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Um... something, somewhere, I think? I guess it wasn't you. Oh well, my mistake. But if anyone does/did ask, there's the answer. Happy another orange bar. (Yes, blocking all of BAS was probably overkill. Most of the edits on that range were either a long time ago, or unrelated.) -Atmoz (talk) 18:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
OK, thats all right then. At least I know about the range block. It probably has edits by me in it - I guess I must be a PG sock too William M. Connolley (talk) 18:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I think this is only the logical continuation of a failed policy - why waste time driving off expert editors one by one if you can block them wholesale? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:24, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Careful, you're a good boy, remember? William M. Connolley (talk) 18:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Didn't anybody get the bulletin? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Missed it. Oops, looks like you were a bit too Sekret. Scarlet letter stuff I suppose William M. Connolley (talk) 19:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
That is I suppose the kind of editors them want here. (talk) 04:14, 19 October 2010 (UTC) formerly known as Dreg743

Discussion thereof[edit]

Blocked for two weeks[edit]


After all the discussion, which you are well aware of, you continue to try and find ways to sneak around the edges of your topic ban. This will not be tolerated from you or any of the other banned editors. Banned means leave it alone, entirely. No exceptions. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I see the result for User:Cla68 was to turn a blind eye. Interesting. By the way, whose sockpuppet is User:EngineerFromVega? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Why now and not say 10 days ago for this? That's when the first comment was made in the section so again, why now? --CrohnieGalTalk 17:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Not the admin, but the block came 15 minutes after the complaint at WP:AE. Right or wrong, the timeline is fairly clear.--Cube lurker (talk) 17:17, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  • You're telling me that this block came 15 min. after the complaint? Since when is 15 minutes enough time to discuss whether an editor should be blocked, never mind just blocking said editor? Editors are located around the world in different time zones as you know so I don't understand the rush here. Was this considered an emergency to protect the project? I sure hope not. I was too late to make a comment at AE. The decision was already made to block, this is wrong. Maybe WMC deservers a block, that's not what I'm complaining about. What my problems is, is 15 minutes with a complaint then boom a 2 week block. Doesn't anyone else have a problem with this? --CrohnieGalTalk 17:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
    • Actually the arbcomm case encouraged decisiveness, and one of the arbs said something to that effect in response to Tony's recent request. The alternative - agonise over it for two weeks and then still block - is probably not an improvement. Guettarda (talk) 17:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

William M. Connolley (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)

Request reason:

No indication of what I have been blocked for. Nor indeed is "Banned means leave it alone, entirely. No exceptions" justified by the arbcomm result or policy William M. Connolley (talk) 20:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Decline reason:

This is an arbitration enforcement block. It can only be appealed as described at WP:AEBLOCK.  Sandstein  20:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Oh, and can someone please point Beeblebrox at User:William_M._Connolley/For_me/The_naming_of_cats William M. Connolley (talk) 20:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

William M. Connolley (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)

Request reason:

You miss the point. This block was not imposed pursuant to the terms of an active arbitration remedy. The arbcomm remedy does not include edits to my user talk page. Also, following recent intereactions with you, you cannot possibly be regarded as an impartial admin

Decline reason:

While I understand that's your opinion, this block should be reviewed using the AE process, so don't use {{unblock}}, but instead use {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}. PhilKnight (talk) 21:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Well, thanks for the info. Wiki seems to have gone mad, or at least a portion of it has. At least a few remain sane William M. Connolley (talk) 21:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
If you are finished writing out your appeal, I can move it to the AE page for you. However, I would suggest writing something a bit more substantive, perhaps a paragraph stating that you don't think it was violation of the ban, and that if the Request for Clarification rules that that sort of thing is not allowed, you will abide by it? I think that would give you a greater chance of a successful appeal. The WordsmithCommunicate 21:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, but I believe I've covered the sustance. Could you also get Beeblebrox to strike the "Mr" insult, unless he was doing it deliberately? William M. Connolley (talk) 21:31, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I will move it over now. As far as Beeblebrox, I doubt he intended it as an insult. Modern conventions indicate that males should generally be called Mr, and so I doubt he even considered it. I will ask him, though, if he will change it. The WordsmithCommunicate 21:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks (it shouldn't be necessary for you to do so. B ought to have read what I've written above). Also, there is a typo in my appeal: is the onehat -> 'is the one that. Could you correct that? Also, the template (presumably in an effort to rub salt into wounds) says that the appeal will be dismissed unless I notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then jump through some more hoops. Could you possibly jump throuygh the hoops for me? William M. Connolley (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I have jumped through the appropriate hoops on your behalf, and I made a request on Beeblebrox's talkpage that he address you in your preferred manner. I'm going to review the evidence presented again, and then I will form an opinion regarding the appeal. At this point, i'm not sure what course of action I will suggest. If you wish to make any further statements for your appeals, make them here and I will transfer them over. The WordsmithCommunicate 22:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks William M. Connolley (talk)

Off-wiki meatpuppetry encouraged by arbcom! Transparency decried as disruptive![edit]

Bizarre. I guess the appropriate thing to do now is to keep all conversations about climate change off wiki. Plausible deniability seems to be the arbitration committee's preferred mode of operation. Transparency is to be eschewed. This is oddly in-keeping with their primary mode of deliberation. ScienceApologist (talk) 12:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Bizarre indeed
Agreed, arbcom do everything they can get away with away from scrutiny. It is very difficult to challenge arbcom on this because complete cooperation of all involved editors in any particular case is needed to force this to change. They tried to keep my case away from public eyes and wrapped it up with all arbs voting under some checkuser cloud even though I never requested or needed any secrecy. In fact secrecy worked against me as certain members of arbcom almost certainly realised when pushing their hasty agenda driven solutions. Polargeo 2 (talk) 13:04, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Accepted practice is to discuss the topic on WR, then make the edits here. :-P Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I cannot comment about that on-wiki because that would involve me discussing the conduct of administrators in CC probation. Polargeo 2 (talk) 13:16, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
You mentioned "the CC probation"! That's an obvious attempt to prolong the dispute and deserves a lengthy block. We have to make you scum understand that business means business. (Sadly, I'm not sure whether I'm joking or not...) Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Your joking Boris, don't know about the rest of them though. 2 weeks? I don't understand why looking at this talk page I don't see it. Did WMC, sorry WMC, did you talk about CC some place else? I'm confused because I don't see anything here recent to cause the block. Can someone clarify for me please? Thanks in advance, --CrohnieGalTalk 13:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, see #Misc breakage, above. It struck me as a sensible solution, but people found it problematic and told him to stop. He posted a third one, which led to AE, which led to a block. Unreasonable? Sure. Putting process above improving the encyclopaedia? Sure. But given that he was told to stop, from a purely process perspective, it's it difficult point to argue. But honestly, I'm more inclined to see this as bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy, rather than stupidity or maliciousness.
At the heart of this is a desire to "do something". It's what we say to politicians all the time. "Do something". Got a crime problem? Enforce tougher sentences! It doesn't matter if the solutions (a) fail to address the actual problem, and (b) result in draconian punishments for people guilty of relatively minor infractions (cf. war on drugs) - people want action, they want to see something being done. In Wikipedia, the people wanting action and the people capable of acting happen to overlap significantly. So it all gets more complicated.
Tougher laws don't actually solve crime problems, especially when they don't actually do anything to deal with the underlying problems. A tougher sanctions regime isn't going to solve the problem here - they're driven by a combination of real-world politics and bloggers taking specific aim at articles and editors here. People still seem to be operating under the mistaken idea that this is about personalities, that you can solve the problem by clamping down on the 'problem children'. That's not to say that there aren't problems between editors, conflicts that have made matters worse. But they're minor. Without the "external forcings", we wouldn't have a big problem here.
In one sense the problem is the solution. The arbcomm case created a flawed framework. But the arbcomm actually has no power of its own. The power actually lies with the community. A constant stream of 'test cases' makes matters worse. What has happened since the case closed is very unfortunate. Guettarda (talk) 16:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Note that in this case, the block doesn't prevent William from posting another CC article link, it only prevents William from editing other non CC articles. :) . Count Iblis (talk) 16:18, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
True, but the next block could keep him from editing his talk page as well. I agree that what's happening is going to shift a lot of activity off-wiki, and things can get hairy. I tried to raise that issue in one of the discussions a few days ago, but without success. I think that we're definitely seeing process triumphing over content here. The choice was made, and content is going to suffer. ScottyBerg (talk) 16:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Yep, it will force things off-wiki. May as well start now:
Sign here to join the secret mailing list.
  1. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 16:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  2. --CrohnieGalTalk 17:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  3. --17:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  4. William M. Connolley (talk) 17:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  5. Count Iblis (talk) 17:51, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
  6. --~~
  7. Jimbo Wales (talk) Imaginary time, Modified Julian Date (UTC)
This is not a good idea. Remember the Eastern European Mailing List case, in which multiple people were banned because it was discovered they were using a mailing list. Cardamon (talk) 19:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Ah, but this is a secret mailing list. So no one knows it exists. It's safe to assume that these people are not part of that list. The fact that one does not receive messages from the list is proof that the list exists is the fact that you are not receiving messages from it. And every time you see vandalism reverted, you will have to ask yourself whether it was produced by some sort of a secret list. And, BTW, the issue with the EEML was not the existence of the list, but rather, the way it was used. Guettarda (talk) 19:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I assume that this is being done in jest (it is, isn't it?), but it definitely can be misconstrued. ScottyBerg (talk) 19:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but information on the list is only available via the list. As soon as you subscribe, you will get an email with full instructions. Please disable your spam filter, as we use steganography to make the more important announcements look like penis enlargement ads. In fact, you may already be subscribed... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I like your thinking. In fact I like it so much I stole it :-) William M. Connolley (talk) 22:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Only reasonable solution I see here is to elect Boris to the arbcomm. Guettarda (talk) 13:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
He's got my vote! --CrohnieGalTalk 13:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
A run for arbcom certainly is an intriguing proposition. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 16:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
If you'll accept, I know lots of us would vote for you. --CrohnieGalTalk 17:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I went out this morning and it was cold. Then it got warmer. It appears to be getting colder right now. A couple of months ago it was warmer. I am not going to Antarctica this year so from my perspective it will be a warm winter. Oh someone is vandalising an article but I cannot tell you where. Never mind, nice sock spread the love :). Polargeo 2 (talk) 13:40, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Huh! --CrohnieGalTalk 13:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I have lost my mind. Pay no attention :) Polargeo 2 (talk) 14:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Polargeo 2, as a topic-banned party in the CC case you have just made a personal attack against yourself, who is a topic-banned editor in the CC case. Why do you insist on continuing these battles across multiple forums fora forii places, despite the clear intent of arbcom? See WP:NSA. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 17:56, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I feel that the link under "even in the face of self-abuse" needs changing William M. Connolley (talk) 18:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
To what, might I ask? you foul-minded pervert... Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I went to public school, I'll have you know, and that kind of joke is obligatory William M. Connolley (talk) 19:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I was rather surprised that the link didn't go there... Guettarda (talk) 19:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
SBHB, I'm deeply worried. From an ArbCom candidate I would expect to see more than just a singe WP:STUPIDABBREV. If I were uninvolved, I'd strongly consider blocking you for insufficient zeal in enforcing Wikipedia best practices! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
[13]! William M. Connolley (talk) 18:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Don't worry, I think we all have! :) --CrohnieGalTalk 17:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Mailing lists are so last century. What about a private wiki? William M. Connolley (talk) 17:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I confess to being startled at the suggestion that you should either ignore blatant bad edits, or else email someone else to fix them. I really can't see what the latter achieves at all. Surely this is "participating in any Wikipedia process relating to those articles", just harder to prove? Although perhaps I shouldn't give people ideas. Anyway, for what it's worth, I fail to see what a 2 week ban achieves that couldn't be achieved by saying "don't do that", especially when the case was not clear-cut. "Unncessarily draconian" springs to mind. pour encourager les autres? Or décourager, in this case. --Merlinme (talk) 17:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Malice is the word you're looking for William M. Connolley (talk) 17:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
you should . . . ignore blatant bad edits: that's the definition of "topic ban," and the culmination of months of deliberations. Removal of the most qualified editor from the CC articles and an editorial in the Wall Street Journal praising arbcom for having done so. ScottyBerg (talk) 18:11, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
I thought Boris's post on NYB's talk page was particularly good. That showed up that Stephan as a bit of a whinger William M. Connolley (talk) 18:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Why private? Why not just post it at WR. As much as they hate you over there, they hate the arbcomm more. It would appear that one's actions on WR, no matter how egregious, incur no penalty over here. Guettarda (talk) 19:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom enforcement:Talk page access[edit]

WMC, I removed a section from your talk page where you are posting related to Climate Change. Do not put it back or create another section if you want to retain talk page access. And consider this a formal warning that your block will be extended if you continue to post about CC on your talk page. FloNightUser talk:FloNight 12:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC) [Note - I've removed the irritating hearts from your sig - William M. Connolley (talk) 12:53, 28 October 2010 (UTC)]

So, you really are voting in favour of preferring off-wiki communication. Strange days William M. Connolley (talk) 12:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
You may not realise it but if it had been me posting any of those links I would have just been indefed and had talkpage access taken away instantly. The admins who dislike you are at least cautious enough not to stick their necks out too much. The result is likely to be the same in the end though as they go around purposefully not hearing good arguments that get in their way until they get what they desire. Polargeo 2 (talk) 12:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

WMC, you're screwed no matter what you do. The Arbitration Committee acted in bad faith throughout the proceedings (not all members, I hasten to add, but that was the net effect). Since you aren't going to get a fair and impartial hearing regardless of what you do or don't do, I see no reason not to follow your conscience wherever that may lead. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:30, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Rather late in the day, the question appears to be one of diplomacy – an appearance of civility will overcome article content quality any day. Now that you're here, WMC, it would take uncharacteristic humility and an ability to let climate change articles go to hell in a handbasket without comment to have a hope of lifting the topic ban. Such are the wages of expertise and a commitment to good quality content, when assailed by political operators with a veneer of civility. As seems to be usual, I've no idea how to reach a satisfactory resolution of this situation. . . dave souza, talk 13:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
[Twattery redacted. Don't be such a delicate flower, daaaahling William M. Connolley (talk)] (that wasn't a reply to DS, that was to Bb, who seems to be a bit of a delicate flower. Not sure why his sig is gone from here, just noticed William M. Connolley (talk) 23:53, 29 November 2010 (UTC))
Your denigration of other editors as "an army of followers who will support us no matter what and relentlessly attack anyone who is seen as opposition" says a lot. Anyone who disagrees with you is a Bad PersonTM and cannot possibly be acting from a principled difference in views, correct?

In short, your coming here to shove it in WMC's face and put down anyone who disagrees with you as WMC's "followers" and "armyis way out of line. You apologized to Awickert for your nasty "fan club" comments, but then you come here and make near-identical slams against WMC's "followers" and "army." That makes your apology ring hollow, as if the apology was merely a cynical act of convenience or dissimulation.

If you want to block me for saying this I don't mind. Take a free shot. It's obvious how much you enjoy that sort of thing. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:08, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Clear violation of Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change#Casting_aspersions on his part. I trust that he will be just as quick to block himself for violating the arbcomm ruling. Guettarda (talk) 21:22, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Beeblebrox is being self-consistent. He told me, "I apologize if I incorrectly implied you were a member of said fan club." He never apologized for his assertation there is a set of people with nothing better to do than to bumble around the internet in said fan club. I was very tempted to respond to his original comment here, but I clicked the "X" on the edit window before I finished. Awickert (talk) 21:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying. I have struck portions of my comment accordingly, and apologize to Beeblebrox for having misrepresented his exchange with you. The remainder of my comment stands. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:59, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


Secret message[edit]

Your conduct is being discussed at my talk page (though only peripherally). If there is anything you need to say in response please post it here and I may or may not meatpuppet it onto my page, depending on whether I do or don't. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:56, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Sekrit answer: can you tell SF that I saw someone comment of 8 significant edit wars to break out during the case, WMC was a primary participant in seven of them is twaddle (you may of course use rather more polite phrasing, or not, at your pleasure) and that commenting on such a case by merely repeating tittle-tattle is a poor way for an Arb to behave.
As for Coren, I don't think there is much hope of cradcking the veil of denial, but H's comment xhez NYB first, that you should immediately cease all back-room negotiations is interesting - perhaps you could ask C if any deals were done? Also, I'd be grateful if you could entirely ignore C's advice about whipping the incident into a froth your risk - that is all self-serving on C's part. They are embarrased by the stupidity of the situation they have created and are desperately hoping everyone will shut up.
As for RD, you should point out the anomaly of my being blocked while Cla gets off free William M. Connolley (talk) 08:21, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
@Boris: as to EfV, I'd suggest a check against TS William M. Connolley (talk) 12:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

There was, of course, discussion of the case on the mailing list — though nowhere to the extent that some people imagine — but they were not substantive points but points of process; things like coordination of who was to write new proposals, suggested rewordings, exhortations to vote and get the effing case done. But, unlike what some people imagine, the actual nature of the decision gets very little attention on the list: you'll see the vast majority of that discussion and give-and-take on the decision page proper. (Coren) This is the most alarming thing I've seen in all the vast verbiage I've seen devoted to the case. I, like most rational people I expect, assumed that long delays during the proposed decision process, and the lack of workshopping and transparency in the discussion of the proposed decision, meant that, for whatever reason, the committee had decided to conduct their deliberations on the case behind closed doors. If this (bolded statement) is true and there were no substantive discussions on the decision behind closed doors, if in fact the only deliberations were the few brief exchanges that were visible on the proposed decision page, then I don't know what to say. I wouldn't go so far as WMC has done in questioning the veracity of Coren's assertion, I'll only say that to believe that the statement is not true is less damaging to ArbCom's credibility than believing that it's true, because believing that it's true means accepting that there were actually no deliberations of substance, which is not acceptable. Woonpton (talk) 17:45, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

We've got one arb saying the mailing list discussions were few and "not substantive points but points of process" and another arb saying "several discussions, en banc, took place to see what broad consensus existed for various approaches," along with several other inconsistencies.

But the most troubling point remains Coren's statement that "the vast majority of that discussion and give-and-take on the decision page proper." Since discussion on the decision page was perfunctory this demands the conclusion that there was practically no deliberation amongst the arbs regarding the merits of the case.

In short, you can't have it both ways. You can't say on the one hand that there was "considerable discussion among the drafting arbitrators" and on the other that the discussion was mainly limited to the perfunctory comments we saw on the decision page. You guys aren't very good at this; if you care about retaining the sliver of credibility you have left you'll need to agree on a common story and stick with it. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 14:29, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

AE Appeal[edit]

There being no consensus of uninvolved administrators to overturn your block I have closed your AE appeal accordingly. Your appeal is denied and the terms of the block are in force. Should you not agree with this decision you may appeal the matter directly to Arbcom. --WGFinley (talk) 22:55, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Your wisdom is broken, but I cannot fault your ability to count William M. Connolley (talk) 14:24, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Lest I forget [16] William M. Connolley (talk) 19:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Time for a new strategy[edit]

I don't know about you, but I think all this drama is unnecessary. My three-part plan:

  1. Stop editing here.
  2. Check in now and again to see what is going to pot and what isn't.
  3. After some length of time, publish an assessment somewhere.

Truth being, if most of the craziness in article space here ends up being a "flash in the pan" that is soon corrected without your help, then you might as well use your free time for fun and all is well (better, in fact: we've proven that you don't need to watch and defend the pages, and you can thank the arbs for your newfound free time). However, if lots of things have gone horribly wrong, then it will look like ArbComm's decision did not work out so well and WP is suffering quality-wise as a result.

I say this because (1) I don't think that anything that you would do will make arbcomm revoke your topic ban come 6 months, and (2) regardless of wording, CC is beyond all bounds at the moment (and per #1 will remain so indefinitely). So I can see no reason to do anything but sit and watch. Awickert (talk) 00:42, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Shell / Rlevse / LHVU[edit]

Anyone else noticed Shell's untrue Arbiters don't make accusations, other parties (oftentimes involved in the same dispute) present evidence, suggest findings and so on? William M. Connolley (talk) 21:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Rlevse: [17] William M. Connolley (talk) 12:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Climate change amendment: notification of three motions posted[edit]

Following a request for amendment to the Climate change case, three motions have been posted regarding the scope of topic bans, the appeal of topic bans, and a proposal to unblock two editors.

For and on behalf of the Arbitration Committee --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 19:20, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I see that Coren is as rubbish as ever: engaging in battleground behavior on their talk page is deliberate disinformation, or possibly a confession of ignorance; it is hard to know which is worse. As for the implied equivalence between me and MN: I reject it, of course (@SP: thanks for noticing this obvious point, even if it was too subtle for the arbs. Please continue your attempts to make RD see sense). Still, there is one saving grace of this nonsense: we'll find out whether Carc's offer was just a waste of time, or not William M. Connolley (talk) 22:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Um, well, yes. It was a waste of time. No surprises there William M. Connolley (talk) 21:58, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

The high point of this silliness: [18] William M. Connolley (talk) 10:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

1 week block[edit]

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for incivility. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}} below this notice, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Adambro (talk) 16:32, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

William M. Connolley (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)

Request reason:

I don't even know what I've been blocked for. Where is this incivility? William M. Connolley (talk) 10:57 pm, Today (UTC+0)

Decline reason:

Your incivility has been adequately outlined at ANI, here.[dead link] Once you learn to use civilised, polite language, you'll be one of the most productive users here. Unfortunately, however, your persistence in throwing foul language at other users creates discord within the community and discourages other users from editing, and as it's extremely likely you'll do it again if unblocked early, I see no reason to unblock you. Civility is more than a policy: it's one of the five pillars. If you're not interested in following the five pillars, I suggest finding a project other than Wikipedia. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 23:21, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Excuse me for busting in, but the link above is dead. So just where is the basis for this block documented? - J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 01:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
As far as I know, it never was William M. Connolley (talk) 16:33, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
You really haven't bothered look at this properly, have you? I was tidying up my talk page. I was not "throwing foul language at other users". And you have absolutely no reason to believe "it's extremely likely you'll do it again if unblocked early". Can you point to *any* incivilty from me off my own talk page, which is the only one you've left me access to? William M. Connolley (talk) 23:27, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
[Incivility redacted - WMC], whilst I appreciate you're upset and that this is a big step to take, but I've looked into this for the past few hours and I'm convinced that this is the best solution. I have pointed to you calling other users incompetent, calling other users twats, and I could now point to you calling other users idiots. Your doing this is not conducive to a pleasant atmosphere for editing; it drives other users away, which in turn disrupts the project. I don't often put my foot down, and I hardly ever comment on user conduct in a public forum such as this: but this is one of the few cases where I don't honestly believe you're willing to work with other people in a friendly atmosphere. You might be a good article writer, you're no doubt a perfectly amiable chap in real life: but Wikipedia is more than being a good article writer. Wikipedia is a community, and if you can't bring yourself to the same level of pleasant, polite discourse as other users - however wrong, stupid, twattish or incompetent they might be - then you need to consider whether Wikipedia is a community you're happy to be a part of. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 23:45, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
I endorse your block review CML. It does seem very sensible to show that such an attitude towards basic policies is not helping the project.·Maunus·ƛ· 01:51, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
I notice you've pointedly ignored my " Can you point to *any* incivilty from me off my own talk page"? (I should have said, recently, for some reasonable defn of recent - since the close of the Cl Ch case, say?) If you can't, then your comments become rather less plausible - reading this talk page is entirely optional for users and is not required for construction of the encyclopedia. Oh - and given the role you're taking here, I'd rather you didn't address me as William - it implies a degree of acquaintance that does not exist - you are English, aren't you? Please see User:William M. Connolley/For me/The naming of cats William M. Connolley (talk) 23:53, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
(EC) I call bullshit, CML. There's a double standard here, where editors can take free shots at WMC, myself, and others who agree with the scientific consensus but if we dare get out of line there's hell to pay. Where are the civility police when people post things like "Are most of you who are alarmists & cultists also gay? I'm looking to pack fudge." Or "If there was a god, you would go to hell, for being dishonest & immoral, but your days on Earth, in freedom which you oppress are numbered, until you go to jail or worse." Or "your input will be disregarded by me and any with two brain cells to rub together." Or when an admin, who should know better says "Who gives a fuck about Billy Tantrum's non scientific opinions anyway?" The list goes on and on and on and on. So spare us the sanctimonious lecture. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:57, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Also: I question your impartiality to review this unblock. You had stated uneqivocally much earlier [19] that "A one week block is certainly appropriate" which means you'd already made up your mind. That makes you unfit to review the block William M. Connolley (talk) 23:57, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Given the myriad of questions here, you'll understand if my reply is a little lengthy. [PA redacted - WMC] (I hope this is an appropriate way of addressing you? I dislike the informal 'WMC', but I'll call you what you prefer), I can certainly point out where you've been incivil, but it's not on your talk page - it's in an edit summary, which is just as inappropriate. As to my impartiality, I'm as impartial a user as you'll find here, as before tonight I haven't been involved in Climate Change or with yourself despite us being on the project for nigh on five years together. Nevertheless, you are welcome to make another unblock request if you wish.
Boris, I think what you're bringing up is a different issue - or at least it's an issue not directly related to this unblock request - but at first glance I would have blocked in each of those cases as well. I know feelings run high on such contentious issues, but there's never an excuse for incivility from either side. If, in future, you find yourself being harassed by people not willing to work within the community's pillars, by all means contact me and I'll warn and block as appropriate. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 00:09, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Calling your bluff, CML. Do you think this recent comment is appropriate for an admin? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:15, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Of course not, but I'd like to keep this on-topic, regarding WMC's block and WMC's block alone. Bring up an ANI or Wikiquette report about other user's conduct, point me in the right direction, and I'll give you my views there.. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 00:38, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect, CML, that's nonsense. You have the diff right in front of you. You have three options to choose from: Block, speak to, no action. Just pick one. NW (Talk) 00:41, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
I appreciate what you're saying, but it'd hardly be appropriate - it'd look like Boris calling my bluff had forced me into warning or blocking LHVU, and the entire point of me warning him would be lost in the ensuing drama. The key point here is that everyone involved wants equal, fair treatment: so let's make it as equal and fair as possible. Let's bring this up at ANI, exactly where WMC's civility issue was brought up. There's naught more equal than equal treatment. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 00:53, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Your words were "If, in future, you find yourself being harassed by people not willing to work within the community's pillars, by all means contact me and I'll warn and block as appropriate." Not "report it to the appropriate noticeboard and maybe something will or won't happen." Your ability to lie with a straight face will serve you well on Arbcom; it's almost a prerequisite these days. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
So why haven't you brought it up on ANI for review? NW (Talk) 04:07, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Don't you all get it yet? The WP:MMORPG just requires that you win. It doesn't require that you play fair. I learned that a long time ago. If CMLITC blocked the other offenders or even asked for another administrator to block other offenders, it would make the entire situation too discordant as the usual suspects would line-up explaining how we don't normally block for incivility, blah, blah, blah. That would make it glaringly obvious that this block was simply WP:PUNITIVE. No wins in that, are there? So best just not to do anything and let the interminable collection of walls of text drive us to oblivion. Meanwhile, this and this look ominous. jps (talk) 06:24, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

@CMTIAT: Please read the page I directed you to William M. Connolley (talk) 16:47, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

William M. Connolley (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)

Request reason:

I have made a harmless edit comment which worried no-one; real actual PA's on ANI such as [20] are being ignored; this is clear hypocrisy William M. Connolley (talk) 16:45, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Accept reason:

See below. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:23, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Unblocking administrator: Please check for active autoblocks on this user after accepting the unblock request.

If I unblock you, will you refrain from using naughty words? By all means, fire full broadsides at those who hound or attack you, but don't use gratuitously foul language. Use wit rather than profanity. M'kay? Jehochman Talk 18:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I think asking for that promise on all occasions into the indefinite future is unreasonable, and far exceeds the demands put on other users, such as LHVU. So I am obliged to decline your kind offer, but thank you for making it William M. Connolley (talk) 18:33, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
You don't have to be perfect. Would you make a good faith effort to reduce such comments by an order of magnitude. What baleful things other editors do is not relevant to you. Do your best, and let the others look like the south end of a northbound horse. Jehochman Talk 18:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm entirely happy to make good faith efforts and in return I expect to be judged by the same standards as others William M. Connolley (talk) 20:21, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
For example, do you have any problems with B saying "fuck" [21]? Or, indeed, it is acceptable under the terms you propose to call other users "poisonous, nasty, condescending" [22]? Or is it only other users who are allowed to use these terms about me, whilst you expect me to be faultless in return? William M. Connolley (talk) 20:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
The use of the word "fuck" in that context is acceptable, because it's not uncivil or a personal attack. To refer to another specific editor as poisonous or nasty would be uncivil and a borderline personal attack, as would your use of the word "twat" in this edit summary. By calling editors names like that, you make it very difficult to want to unblock you. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
[Comment revised - WMC] I'll go with endorsing Boris's comment, just below William M. Connolley (talk) 17:09, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Your language isn't quite clear. "To refer to another specific editor as poisonous or nasty would be uncivil" or "is uncivil"? That's precisely what Beelblebrox did; note e.g., his use of the third person singular pronoun.[23] Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:57, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
I used that wording for a reason. It is uncivil to refer to another editor in those terms, but had I said that, the next question is inevitably "what am I going to do about it". I'm not going to do anything about it because the comment was made almost a week ago and I believe Beeblebrox has since agreed or volunteered not to interact with WMC and finally because this conversation is about WMC's conduct, not Beeblebrox's. To address that, you should discuss it on his talk page or start an RfC/U. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:20, 30 December 2010 (UTC) that it can be disregarded following proper protocol. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 17:34, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Cynical, but not inaccurate, sadly. Hopefully Beeblebrox will stick to his pledge to avoid WMC and the issue will be a moot point. WMC, will you just agree to make a reasonable effort to comment on content and not contributors or their motives (which would include making much less frequent use of the word "twat") and I'll unblock you. If you extend that courtesy to others and they fail to do so in kind, then by all means bring it to my attention. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:46, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I'm entirely happy to agree to that William M. Connolley (talk) 17:56, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Then we have a deal. I've unblocked you and your autoblock seems to have expired already so you should be fine as long as you stick to the above. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:23, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Thank you William M. Connolley (talk) 20:23, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Let's not have equivocation. As I said, what others do is their own problem. Will you, WMC, promise to make an order of magnitude improvement in your communication? Keep it professional. Aspire not to type anything here you wouldn't say face to face to a complete stranger you'd never met before. Jehochman Talk 02:58, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
"what others do is their own problem": no. This is simple hypocrisy. You're involving yourself in someone else's problem. Blocking someone for incivility is intrinsically mixing up different people's problems. Insisting on an order of magnitude greater civility from me that from the people who attack me, whose attacks you ignore, is unacceptable William M. Connolley (talk) 16:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
If you insist that I must scrutinize the behavior of every single user on Wikipedia if I scrutinize one is silly. What you do is independent of what others do. Jehochman Talk 16:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
No, that isn't a reasonable comment. You're being asked to compare my behaviour to that of two (and only two) people who have attacked me. I've been blocked for a week for an edit comment on my own talk; they have not even been given a warning for deliberate attacks in a public forum. If you think that is fair and reasonable then: you aren't. But in fact I know that you think it is neither fair nor reasonable, which is why you are struggling so hard to avoid making the comparison William M. Connolley (talk) 16:38, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Exoplanets and the Intermediate General Circulation Model[edit]

Steven Vogt talks about a scientist who modeled the atmospheric circulation of a tidally locked exoplanet like Gliese 581 g in its habitable zone.[24] I'm not sure which paper Vogt is referring to here. Would you be able to add a discussion about this to the Gliese 581 g article? No hurry on this. It's in the video if you get a chance to watch it (Event begins sometime around 29:27). Viriditas (talk) 13:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

They have really irritating video... can't they just put it on youtube :-( William M. Connolley (talk) 13:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Interesting how I asked you this question right as it became an issue. An editor just added that the tidally locked sides would be "blazing hot in the light side to freezing cold in the dark side", however I removed this because Vogt seems to refer to the climate models several times that contradict this statement. Viriditas (talk) 13:47, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
And now, I've restored it after finding the source. Viriditas (talk) 14:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I've evaded the issue for the moment but put a comment about something else on the talk page. Thanks. Meanwhile, if you look at the PR puff [ - notice in the pic the sun is orange/red, as presumably it should be, but mysteriously the light reflected off the clouds has become white William M. Connolley (talk) 14:19, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I finally found the guy and his work. His name is James Kasting. Have you heard of him?Viriditas (talk) 22:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Nope. But I have found and now read Joshi et al. 1997 which looks to be the main source for the atmospheres stuff. Its quite interesting. I'll summarise it here, prior to dumping it somewhere: put it in User:William M. Connolley/Atmospheric general circulation on tidally locked planets <snipped to sub page>

William M. Connolley (talk) 22:55, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. But isn't deposition of CO2 exothermic and thus would release heat into the atmosphere on the cold side so it would get warmer? — Coren (talk) 16:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Nevermind, obviously the GHE would be reduced by the loss and that would overwhelm the small amount of heat gained from deposition. — Coren (talk) 16:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the heat released is small, and is soon lost. Its vaguely similar to the way that waste heat from fossil fuel combustion is far less important than the CO2 released William M. Connolley (talk) 14:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Gurk: I've just noticed that Vogt et al. say M stars emit a large amount of their radiation in the infrared. As a result, since the greenhouse effect works by absorbing infrared radiation, the surface temperatures would be higher than predicted by such simple calculations. [25] This is very badly broken. Oops William M. Connolley (talk) 17:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Feedback requested[edit]

Sorry to hear you are currently blocked, but could I get your professional opinion on this discussion? Thanks in advance. Viriditas (talk) 04:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Just looking. At first sight the edits are entirely reasonable. It seems plausible that L is R. T. Pierrehumbert - it is probably worth asking him to confirm that he asserts that (he just about has, but not quite explicitly). In which case I think the COI claims aren't very helpful: it isn't as if he is promoting some pet theory, and he would be a very valuable contributor to have editing wiki so best to be nice to him. Again, at first sight, the major difference between this and previous work appears to be using an ocean rather than a land-only planet; I don't know which is more likely. L suggests on talk that really this stuff isn't about Gleis but is common to all tidally locked planets; I started some wurbling in that direction at User:William M. Connolley/Atmospheric general circulation on tidally locked planets but then got distracted William M. Connolley (talk) 16:59, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Information is hard to erase[edit]

[26] Count Iblis (talk) 00:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

FWIW as the the person who had the largest number of entries on your deleted page, I have created a page containing the log of page diffs here. I have an impaired memory and it is helpful for me to have these kind of aide memoires. If you wish to extend that list of diff logs to include any other contributions listed by author without disparaging edit summaries or commentary you are entirely free to do so. But you are also free to ignore it or ask me to delete it. For my part of the favour please do and try harder; I can assure you, you have barely scratched the surface of my stupidity. --BozMo talk 08:14, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to you both. BozMo, I'm baffled: you've just willfully recreated a deleted page. How do you justify doing that? Since admins have no special rights (other than their tools) it is no more lgal for you to have that page than for me. Which implies that either you have sinned, or that I am free to copy it back into my user space William M. Connolley (talk) 09:02, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
For what its worth I think context is everything. The arguments about the deletion of the page turned considerably around the PAs in the edit history and inference from how the entries came about. I did not recreate and move the page (or could have followed the convention of returning the page content to its owner) but thoughtfully created a page which preserves some of the content. On top of which for my part of the favour (the diffs on edits of mine) I am interested in whether the community is really going to declare me to be attacking myself. If my list gets deleted my next attempt would be to create a page with "things people say" as a title and include only my own diffs. To be honest it is a sad day for Wikipedia when an opinion on a diff is construed as a PA. The whole point is that you are allowed to dislike an edit, but not dislike the editor. --BozMo talk 12:41, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Ah well. If your page survives deletion and/or you aren't bothered by time-wasters for a day or two, then I'll just re-create my page starting from yours William M. Connolley (talk) 14:10, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


You and your talk page watchers are invited to look at User:Atmoz/photoemission spectroscopy and see if there is anything worth merging into Photoemission spectroscopy. I'll likely get around to it eventually, but the folk that go around nominating userpages for MfDs will likely find if before then. Thanks. -Atmoz (talk) 17:54, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Already watching it :-). You're more likely to get some use out of one of the watchers than me, though William M. Connolley (talk) 09:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Record your cleanup[edit]

Hello. Could you please record your work progress at the newly created Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jagged 85/Top edits and, if you haven't done so yet, at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Jagged 85/Cleanup#Cleanup lists. The first link lists the most frequently articles edited by Jagged 85 by number of edits, the latter by total number of bytes added by him. As you know, keeping track of the cleanup effort is paramount to avoid double work. Thanks and regards Gun Powder Ma (talk) 01:36, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Jagged 85 stuff[edit]

I missed the whole business with this, seems I was lucky. From what I gather from Tkuvho accusations being hurled toward me, he was abusing references? Anyways I thought you could take a look at Differential (infinitesimal) in its history section, Jagged 85 added some stuff that looks questionable to me and I thought you might know for sure at a glance. Thenub314 (talk) 06:26, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

The Jagged85 stuff rumbles on; there is no need for you to miss it all (though I'd run screaming if I were you). I'll look at D(i) William M. Connolley (talk) 08:45, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
Ah, instantly recognisable. I could dig out the long tedious discussion we had over that, if you really want to see it William M. Connolley (talk) 08:52, 29 May 2011 (UTC)


WP:Scientific point of view[edit]

I've started to rewrite this, made an essay out of it and changed the argument. I argue that NPOV requires one to stick to SPOV on science articles, so sticking to SPOV on such articles is mandatory. If you have time, you can help expand it and perhaps it can later be proposed as a new policy. Count Iblis (talk) 03:29, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


At the moment, i am one of at least 8 editors who have complained about the current state of the circumcision article which was recently changed to sound much more pro-circumcision. There are a group of established editors who look like they are tag-teaming (Jakew, Jayjg, User:Avraham and User:Jmh649) supporting this pro-circumcision stance. Jakew, Avi and Jayjg have been edit-warring on this article with their pro-circumcision stance since at least 2007/2008. Do you have any opinions on this matter? Do you think an RfC or arbitration is appropriate? Thanks for reading. Pass a Method talk 10:56, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I would give up, you might as well persuade Conservapedia to take a balanced view on Global Warming. One editor in particular has owned that article for about six years and is a long term persistent pro-circumcision lobbyist, with occasional support. Even if you manage to get any kind of balance on the article, which would be impressive, you will find it erode into being pro cutting again over time. The resident editors will put far more time and effort into findly sources which support them etc than you will ever manage to, they are expert in Wikilaw too. You will encounter similar problems on other "optional surgery" kind of topics including cosmetic plastic surgery. Try to get a Germaine Greer perspective into Breast implant if you feel like a challenge. If you take it to the wider community the very strong USA bias toward pointless surgical intervention (financial incentive and knowledge converge) means you can never get consensus because there are always a few "looks ok to me" fruitcakes on the boards. Take it off your watchlist and concentrate on parts of Wikipedia where the improvement from effort is higher. (Circumcision is unusual in that generally the pro-surgery bias comes from practitioners with obvious financial incentives; with circumcisions the motivation of the resident team is less financial). --BozMo talk 15:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
The lobby seems to advocate a bit more agressive pro-circumcision wording over the past month. Probably has something to do with the California vote to ban circumcision this year. Pass a Method talk 15:59, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Just pretend to yourself it is not part of Wikipedia but is a highly selection pro Circumcision lobby page. Then you won't lose sleep. --BozMo talk 05:42, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


Not meaning to offend, but... are you nuts? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:52, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I, naturally, agree with SBHB. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 21:11, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
I was meaning to say: Boris, thanks for your comment. But do please amplify it, as to the substance. Nathan you too. As for madness: at least I don't run in your state :-) William M. Connolley (talk) 21:19, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Do you enjoy dressing up in antlers and going for a walk in the woods during deer hunting season? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:43, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
We don't do that stuff in the Fens. Otter hunting, perhaps. Or mink? William M. Connolley (talk) 07:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar of diligence[edit]

Barnstar of Diligence.png The Barnstar of Diligence
You are awarded this Barnstar for diligent protection of the rules of Wikipedia. Gantuya eng (talk) 04:13, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you William M. Connolley (talk) 07:54, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


I'm sorry if I'm unclear--I'm not referring to arbitration cases but instances--but at this point it's all semantics. You aren't willing to accept responsibility for your actions, and so I don't support letting you off the leash you forged. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 15:42, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, won't do. You said "confirmation by WMC of the validity of all the complaints from previous cases". "cases" clearly means arbitration cases - it can't mean anything else. If you now wish to switch your wording to "instances" then you'll have to say what you mean by that. I've asked you which "cases" you mean, and I think you've evaded the issue. It looks to me like you simply made an error, but you're not prepared to correct yourself - hardly an inspiring example, indeed rather ironic, no? William M. Connolley (talk) 15:53, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
(ps: for anyone else wondering, the other half of this conversation is [27]. Perhaps I need to bold the "if I've left a message on your talk page, I'm watching it, so please reply there" in my edit notice William M. Connolley (talk) 15:57, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
You aren't willing to accept responsibility for your actions - you are an impatient sort. I haven't answered you yet - I'm still trying to work out what you're talking about William M. Connolley (talk) 16:10, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

The actual diffs showing alleged problematic behavior by William are mostly similar to this incident today. ArbCom was in denial about the underlying problem, they totally ignored the fact that the probation system that was implemented before the ArbCom case started was a total failure (indeed, if it had worked, there wouldn't have been an ArbCom case).

ArbCom managed to devote a whole paragraph on the most irrelevant incident you can think of, William inserting comments on postings on his talk page, see here. None of the other issues gets so much coverage. Since it was eventually decided that William was allowed to do this, this was a non-issue anyway, but it is of course a totally irrelevant issue as far as editing in the CC area is concerned. Count Iblis (talk) 23:41, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I thought William was crazy for wanting to be unbanned, and told him so. In the unlikely event his appeal is granted he'll have flocks of admins, partisans, and partisan admins circling to look for the tiniest misstep. (Cooler heads than mine agree on at least this point.) Someone will haul him before AE for not saying "please" is an edit summary or similar nonsense and he'll get blocked, which will justify Arbcom's locking him back up and throwing away the key. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:39, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
But to the point: do either of you know what DWF actually means by his talk of cases? Or, perhaps, what exactly is his confusion? William M. Connolley (talk) 08:23, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Let's do some mindreading. He wasn't an Arbitrator during the original case. Then let's look again at the final decision and see what someone who spends 20 seconds to read the findings about you would note. He would note the headlines, the links, because they have a blue color standing out from the main text, and phrases indicating bad behavior. The first headline is "William M. Connolley previously sanctioned and desysopped", the links refer to previous cases and the ominous words in the text that he would have noted in relation to these cases are "misused admin tools", "admonished", "restricted".
The headline of the next section is "William M. Connolley has been uncivil and antagonistic", the text of the section doesn't contain much notable facts (the links are all numbers). So that section would make a lesser impact. And the last section about BLP edits probably won't make much of an impact at all. The headline "William M. Connolley's edits to biographies of living persons" isn't a negative statement, the text doesn't contain any links at all, and no alarming words like "disruptive" etc., phrases like "not..... appropriately neutral", don't sound very alarming.
Clearly, of all these things that one would note in 20 seconds, the first section about previous cases stands out. Count Iblis (talk) 17:27, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
[Drivel stripped- W]
William won't be allowed to edit BLP pages, so he'll be kept away from anything that is controversial about the CC area here on Wikipedia. The Wiki policies are a good enough barrier to keep the real world public controversy about the science of global warming out of the science articles, in case of the BLP articles this is not the case. Count Iblis (talk) 23:35, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm generally optimistic, and Boris generally pessimistic, and up to now he has won hands down. But we'll see William M. Connolley (talk) 11:34, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Cite to your work at Earth's Energy Budget[edit]

Hi William,

Was wondering if you know of a better citation than this? I don't, and have no plans to look; I'm just looking over the article in general to ponder potential improvements and saw this, which struck me as close, but not quite what we need for the given article text. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 13:31, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Ha, reasonable question. No, I don't know a better source. Essentially, that's a cite of a primary source - Fourier - but since its useful it should stay William M. Connolley (talk) 18:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for checking it out and for general de-horriblizing. Setting aside the sad current state, do you think that concept (Earth's energy budget) is among the climate articles that should bubble up in hits and quality? I mean, every article should. But I'm talking just about climate articles, and the ones that are most important to give readers a solid foundation in the subject. I'll observe that the article seems to be talking about energy budget at the top of the atmosphere, whereas the first one or two RSs talk about various energy budgets on earth, including the other biggie for climate, the one at earth's surface. The article doesn't really go into any of that, just sallies forth more or less talking about top-of-atmos radiative balance. Is that your read? Thoughts on whether/how to address this? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:44, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Its an important concept so yes I think it ought to be a decent article. Its also part of the things that people get wrong, when they fail to understand GW. But also, hopefully, its not really part of the GW wars so improving it shouldn't be too controversial William M. Connolley (talk) 07:58, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Tkuvho (talk) 08:21, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Closed with warnings to both you and Tkuvho. [28] --NeilN talk to me 16:47, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the notice William M. Connolley (talk) 17:05, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

June 2015[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for edit warring, as you did at The Assayer. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  NeilN talk to me 08:42, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, fair enough; apologies. I'll sit it out William M. Connolley (talk) 10:46, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
And, FWIW, I've taken the article off my watchlist so don't expect any comment from me there William M. Connolley (talk) 20:37, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Please have a look at the radiative cooling page...[edit]

I am new to WP as an editor, and joined only because I saw what I consider to be recent mischief on the page for "Radiative Cooling". You seem to be a good candidate to repair this. I hope I am not violating some rule or etiquette by bringing this to your attention. I do intend to try to learn to be an editor, but it will take a while. Regards, Jdbeckerle (talk) 05:58, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

radiative cooling... ah, you're thinking of [29]. Indeed, that's drivel; happily its already been reverted William M. Connolley (talk) 17:36, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Recent merging of solar related articles[edit]

Hi, do you have any opinion on merges who were recently made without consensus, including content removal? See for more, here. Basically i think there are/were to many articles but i think the merging is to selective. prokaryotes (talk) 12:30, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I too agree on the too-many articles, but haven't been tracking the mergers. I have some concerns - see [30]. I can be involved in looking over what now exists William M. Connolley (talk) 17:35, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
There is this merger from Solar variation into Solar cycle (See in particular this old content), and a merger from Insolation into Solar irradiance (See also talk page there), and moved Solar and celestial effects on climate to Orbital effects on climate and Solar and celestial effects on climate, and remaining parts to new article Solar activity and climate. prokaryotes (talk) 19:37, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Earth Studies[edit]

Hi. William, please can you move the Cosomology page to Earth Studies because the Cosmology is greek word and greeks are not founder of Earth science. Please now move this page in english Earth studies, thanksSamad PG (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:06, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Please do not move pages without discussion; it is rude. Also, your proposed move is clearly wrong. From the page itself: Cosmology (from the Greek κόσμος, kosmos "world" and -λογία, -logia "study of"), is the study of the origin, evolution, and eventual fate of the universe. So "Earth studies" is clearly inappropriate. Also, this is the wrong place for any such discussion, which should be on the article talk page William M. Connolley (talk) 08:37, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

ExxonMobil climate change controversy, help?[edit]

Since you have been editing since 2003, and are interested in ExxonMobil climate change controversy maybe you could help clear-up some confusion I am having?

An editor deleted what seems to be a well-sourced sentence about global warming and just left a comment "not about climate change"?

Reference examples:

  • titled "A New Debate Over Pricing the Risks of Climate Change"
  • titled "SEC Probes Exxon Over Accounting for Climate Change"
  • an excerpt from another reference "Environmentalists cheered the S.E.C. inquiry in hopes that regulators were escalating their enforcement on the oil and gas industry to include more rigorous reporting to investors on the potential risks of climate change to their businesses."
  • and another reference excerpt "An added twist is that the SEC is also reportedly interested in how Exxon factors potential carbon regulations into how it values its reserves, dovetailing neatly with several state investigations into whether the oil major covered up knowledge about the impact of climate change."

While I understand my wording choice is open to modification, I don't understand how it is "not about climate change". The editor didn't leave anything on Talk:ExxonMobil climate change controversy. I left them a message on their talk page, without a response. Am I missing something? (talk) 17:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) This thread addresses this revert. The reverted text is about Exxon's refusal to publish valuations of oil reserves. If the reverted text is about global warming/climate change, the connection is not clear to me either. You should explain why you think it is relevant at that article's talk page. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:59, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
I was on holiday but I'm back now; thanks N&EG for answering while I was away. I would actually have a slightly different perspective and say that it *is* about CC in a sense, in that it is clearly part of ES's politically motivated campaign against Exxon, only very thinly veneered as a search for justice - I don't think you're supposed to believe the veneer. However, unless you can find an RS to say that (I could write it down myself I suppose - would that count? You could [ poke around in the WSJ if you like), you're stuck with just the bald facts, and those have no obvious relevance to CC William M. Connolley (talk) 19:17, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the WSJ link! I have never heard of the Center for International Environmental Law or what ever the "Eco-Accounting Project" is. The unattributed opinion piece (by CEI?) doesn't seem to add anything, as the new (to me) parts are speculative. The back-and-forth law suits are already in the wp article.
User:Beagel is back too. While you two were offline, I was seeking to clear-up my confusion and asked another editor.
Do any of you who know about this subject want to help me improve the wording at Talk:ExxonMobil climate change controversy? (talk) 20:18, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svg Hello, William M. Connolley. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. Mdann52 (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)


FYI see this NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 06:50, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

That's where it was added, yes. I'm not strongly attached to it but CD is a sock, probably William M. Connolley (talk) 08:48, 17 December 2016 (UTC)


You said "one ref is enough; refs are there to support text" in respect to Emdrive in space testing. Normally I would agree, but we have there a belligerent editor who removes this whole section repeatedly claiming falsely that there are not enough sources. That is why I and another editor added more sources than just IBTimes. Because of that I believe that at least until the belligerent editor ends his edit warring we should have them there.Musashi miyamoto (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

This is a common mistake, but it is still a mistake. Solve the actual problem instead William M. Connolley (talk) 09:12, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry, merry![edit]

From the icy Canajian north; to you and yours! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 20:00, 25 December 2016 (UTC) Lights ablaze.JPG

Arctic sea ice[edit]

Hi William! If I remember correctly, you were always a bit conservative about arctic sea ice decline. Any prognosis about next summer? I could use some conservatism when looking at ... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) you may know of it already and it may not be conservative, but FYI I often look at and the associated forums NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:31, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Yes. I've seem the broken graph. It's impressive, but mostly because antarctic sea ice finally does what we would expect. I'm more concerned about the arctic at the moment. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:35, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)2 [31] and [32] also impressive (ly bad). Perhaps worse than that area graph? crandles (talk) 11:37, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
I don't have a prognosis for next summer. I did write, but all that does it show you that I don't really know what is going on - in common with everyone else :-) William M. Connolley (talk) 18:22, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
Well, we will get more data in 6 months or so. The lowest point of my daily commute is ca. 230 m above sea level, so I'll be ok till then ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:26, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
And I have the full width of the Fens to protect me William M. Connolley (talk) 22:42, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
I think the Fens work better against glaciers than against sea level rise... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:16, 17 January 2017 (UTC)


Any thoughts on this? Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:09, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Interesting. Having looked, it seems I was wise enough to stay out of the original (if I'm wrong let me know) so I'll stay out of this too unless there's some reason to do otherwise. If I was to comment I'd speak in favour of removal of sanctions; I quite like Ed, he was (although generally on the wrong side of GW) quite reasonable, and the GW stuff is now not in any danger until the Trump fanbois start having a go, though perhaps they aren't hard enough William M. Connolley (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2017 (UTC)