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User talk:Winkelvi

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Request for advice on whether to report potential edit warring[edit]

I would like to ask your advice on whether or not I should report Ring Cinema for edit warring, since his editing may not explicitly violate the 3RR, but as I understand it you have noted he is a persist edit warrer (around September 19, 2014. The edits in question on his current edit warring revolve around two Michael Caine films, Deathtrap (film) and Sleuth (1972 film) Two days ago I added a sentence to the leads of both of these article noting the similarities of these films, and providing citations of reviews by Roger Ebert and Janet Maslin that explicitly mention the similarities between these films, as well as three published books that mention the similarities. Yesterday Ring Cinema repeatedly reverted these changes on the Deathtrap article. At that point, I attempted to start a discussion with him. Since then, he has reverted the change again. This is his third revert. His first revert was 16:25, 4 August 2015‎, and his last revert was 16:51, 5 August 2015‎. At 16:51, 5 August 2015, he also reverted the almost exact same sentence in the Sleuth article. So while it's two different articles, it is the exact same issue with the exact same editors in the two articles, and he is at 4 reverts of it in barely over 24 hours. This feels like edit warring if not a cut-and-dried violation of 3RR. I have opened a discussion of the content dispute on WP:DRN, but do you think I should also go to ANI/3rr? Mmyers1976 (talk) 20:31, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Report him if you think his actions are deserving of being reported, Mmyers1976. I have no opinion one way or the other. Yes, he and I have tangled previously, but I don't hold any animosity toward him and I'm certainly not looking for reasons to see him taken to a noticeboard. If you believe it's as cut and dried as you say, do what you think is appropriate. If you, however, have been edit warring as well, be prepared for a possible WP:BOOMERANG. -- WV 20:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
I asked because I believe it's not cut and dried, it's more of those ambiguous situations like he was warned about before, and also because of the open DRN discussion, I don't want to look like I'm forum-shopping. I counted and have 3 reverts on the Deathtrap article, and then I stopped and discussed. Even though he has reverted me again on that article, I have let it stand pending the DRN. I have not reverted at all on the Sleuth article, and I have let his revert stand pending the DRN, so I believe I'm clear of an edit warring boomerang charge. Mmyers1976 (talk) 20:43, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
I see you have also asked Drmies for advice. I would go with whatever he says. I've found his advice wise and unbiased as well as trustworthy. -- WV 20:48, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, will do. Mmyers1976 (talk) 20:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Too much praise, Winkelvi. I'm a bit mobile and the keyboard is sticky (it's in Alabama, as am I), and I haven't looked at diffs yet, so pardon the brevity. But y'all, realize that WP:AN3 is also WP:EWN, that is, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring--in other words, while the template may suggest it's all about three reverts, it's a noticeboard for edit warring, and that's a broader thing than just 3R violations. You might say that's more liberal, but it's also intended, I believe, to bring to admin attention the more persistent edit warriors who tend to work long-term, outside of the clear bright line of 3R. So if you're suspecting someone of such edit warring, and if, of course, you're not the only one reverting them, you may well report it--just write up a good report in which you lay out the case.

It may be (but this is possibly not of any interest to you) that the "punishment" is different. Clear 3R violations are frequently met with a short block to prevent 4R, 5R, etc.; long-term edit warring violations sometimes call for different matters, and it may be that the matter ends up on ANI for POV editing or whatever. But don't be afraid to report edit warring: Bbb23 and EdJohnston know what they're doing. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 22:06, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, great info, helped my understanding a lot. replied in full on your talk. Mmyers1976 (talk) 22:41, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I just received your message. The reason I changed the information regarding Meredith's date of birth, which I'm assuming is the reason for your message, is because of a photo Josh Duggar just posted of his daughter. In the caption of the photo he says that Meredith is one month old today which would indicate that she had been born on July 16th and not July 19th. I think they simply announced the birth on July 19th in order to give Anna time to rest and the children a chance to bond with their new sister. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beckym1983 (talkcontribs) 17:40, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Duggar date[edit]

Hi, I just received your message. The reason I changed the information regarding Meredith's date of birth, which I'm assuming is the reason for your message, is because of a photo Josh Duggar just posted of his daughter. In the caption of the photo he says that Meredith is one month old today which would indicate that she had been born on July 16th and not July 19th. I think they simply announced the birth on July 19th in order to give Anna time to rest and the children a chance to bond with their new sister. (Beckym1983 (talk) 17:42, 16 August 2015 (UTC))

Thanks for responding, Beckym1983. It's important that when content is changed -- especially dates -- that you give a reason for the change in the edit summary and that a reliable source is provided to support the change. As far as I know (without looking first), I believe the 19th date is sourced. I will check to make sure that's the case. If not, then we can look into the 16th date for accuracy and change that content accordingly. Thanks for wanting to edit for accuracy! -- WV 17:46, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Ted Cruz Edit[edit]

Thanks for your note regarding my recent edit to Ted Cruz. I saw that resource you flagged referenced on a page for another candidate and thought it was useful for establishing ideological context, do you have suggestions on how to be able to provide that type of information from resources like Crowdpac in a way that isn't promotional? Thank you. Dapcrescendo9 (talk) 18:09, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Dapcrescendo9, the addition of the content was problematic from three aspects: It's not from a reliable source, it's from a biased source, and the source is promotional/spam in nature. You may not have intended for it to be "spammy", but it would likely be seen as such, regardless. The biased nature of the source you provided is also not acceptable. If you are able to find an unbiased, reliable source that can support that content, you are welcome to add it to the article. As it is, however, we cannot accept the content. Please see WP:SPAM, WP:REF, and WP:NPOV for more. -- WV 18:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Winkelvi, thanks very much for your response, very helpful. Can you help me understand how the source is biased? One of the things I found useful about them is that they appear to be very objective politically outside of the issue of money in politics. I found their scoring model to be useful in that it is based on objective analysis of campaign contributions, and have seen them cited a few different places. I've seen similar methodology to the one they used from sources like fivethirtyeight.com[1] and have seen their data cited in a few major media outlets[2]. I very much appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and am just looking to better understand how bias is being defined. Would it be better to combine that data with other sources that have included that data or similar data? Thanks again. Dapcrescendo9 (talk) 18:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

References

It's biased because it is a pro-Conservative political action group, even though they claim to be non-partisan, the group's founder is a strong Conservative and much of their reports are anti-Liberal. Beyond this, addition of the source you provided is promotional. At the top of the chart was a solicitation for funds to the Conservative candidates listed. The inclusion of such is inappropriate. -- WV 19:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Walker[edit]

Hi Winkelvi. FYI: Wikipedia:Graphics_Lab/Photography_workshop#Scott_WalkerAnythingyouwant (talk) 01:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

George Takei[edit]

Could you please let me know what you were referring to as "relevant information" for the George Takei article I edited. Both sections I edited seemed to have nitpicking information that wasn't necessarily relevant to the page. Thanks! Mitchmasontim (talk) 17:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)Mitchmasontim

If it happened and is written in a manner consistent with policy on Wikipedia biographies of living persons (BLPs), notablity, and citing reliable references, then it's inclusion-worthy. We don't keep negative content out of BLPs just because it's negative (which was the reasoning for removal you cited in the edit summary). -- WV 17:54, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Jared Fogle[edit]

Hasn't Jared publicly admitted to having sex below the age of consent (which is 16, 17 or 18 depending on what state you're in). Well, I still find the pedophilia category inaccurate. Pedophilia is a medical diagnosis and while it has been said he has a medical condition and will be receiving treatment for sexual disorders, they haven't specifically said he has pedophilia. Andrea Carter (at your service | my good deeds) 22:57, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, he has had sex with minors and that is one of the things he was charged with. He was not charged with rape. He has also been charged with being in possession of and distributing child pornography. You could be right about the pedophilia category, however, you are incorrect to add a category for rape. Categories, of course, have to be supported by article content as well as reliable sources. -- WV 23:00, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Isn't sex with people under 16 considered rape? I am probably right about the pedophilia category. In order to be diagnosed with pedophilia you must be primarily attracted to people under 11 (something that doesn't appear to be true with him). He has a sexual disorder but until he has a diagnosis he shouldn't be in the pedophilia category. Andrea Carter (at your service | my good deeds) 23:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Rape has different definitions. That said, if the sources don't support that he raped anyone, and the charges don't say he raped anyone, then we don't say he raped anyone. -- WV 23:16, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
You're right. Andrea Carter (at your service | my good deeds) 23:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Canvassing[edit]

Hi, I just read your post on WP:RSN. Informing noticeboards of RFC's that have questions are normally dealt with on those boards is not canvassing. You can read here for other appropriate places to publicise a RFC that are not canvassing. AlbinoFerret 00:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up, AlbinoFerret. With the other comments left in conjunction with the RfC notification, there was an intent for something else. Trust me on this. As always, it's good to hear from you - I hope you are well. -- WV 00:25, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the statement was not neutral, but I wanted you to know what is acceptable so that you dont make unintentional false statements. I'm doing good, hope you are also. AlbinoFerret 00:40, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I appreciate it. Glad you are doing well -- I am, also! -- WV 00:41, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Duggar[edit]

Hello,

"In 1984, Duggar Michelle Ruark." doesn't sound grammatical to me. Is there a quirk of the English language that makes it correct to omit the word "married"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Bob_Duggar&diff=679158632&oldid=679156228 15.211.201.85 (talk) 20:27, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

That was an error on my part, thought I corrected it, but didn't. My apologies for any confusion. -- WV 20:38, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

On Denali[edit]

Come on, you know it's true. 24.255.44.92 (talk) 05:47, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Which is completely beside the point. Follow the link he helpfully provided to you and learn how to use article talk pages correctly. ―Mandruss  05:57, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
User:24.255.44.92, you're being disruptive just for the sake of being disruptive. Talk pages are not a forum. If that's what you're looking for, do it outside Wikipedia, not here. And if you didn't come to my talk page to truly discuss, rather, to just stir the pot some more, please stay off this page. -- WV 15:40, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
(Notifications - any kind of ping, reverts, etc - don't work for IPs. However, as I understand it, they do get the yellow "you have new messages" bar if you post on their talk page.) ―Mandruss  05:20, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Undid[edit]

I made a recent edit to Jesse Ventura's page changing his unit affiliation and using a website address that had 3 pages of factual interviews from various Vietnam era SEALs that was copyrighted by Bill Salsibury yet you deleted the footnote citing it wasnt a credible website, yet several other attached footnotes from other websites were left alone and thus were deemed credible. What is your criteria for credibility on a website? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.75.69 (talk) 13:27, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, it's not my criteria, it's Wikipedia's criteria for verification of references and referencing. The The reference you provided is a self-published source and that's not acceptable for referencing. -- WV 00:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Ahmed Arrest[edit]

I think you are misreading the press release. There's a possible distinction with juveniles regarding custody but the reasons for taking him to a juvenile detention center for processing is functionally equivalent to an arrest. "Taking him into custody" = "Arrested." They cited the law he was arrested and that would have been the probable cause for taking into custody. For adults, they would not have been able to take a person into custody like that without an arrest. A Terry stop is a detention. People are making more out of handcuffing, though. It's generally policy in police departments that anyone arrested is handcuffed with hands behind their back while being transported unless a medical condition prevents it. After arrest and further investigation, they chose not to charge him but it doesn't negate the arrest. --DHeyward (talk) 05:05, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

And I stand corrected that in Texas, for juveniles they explicitly state that "taken into custody" is not considered an "arrest" under the law. --DHeyward (talk) 05:16, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I think his detention does constitute "arrest". The law in question (as I understand it) says that when someone has been arrested but is free not to disclose it, they can say "no" and be considered to have answered truthfully. I think that's because requiring them to say "yes but I'm not required to disclose this fact" would be incoherent: it would require them to disclose the fact in the course of saying that they're not required to. As I understand it, there is instead an implicit clause, in effect: it says only "Have you ever been arrested?", but it means "Have you ever been arrested, that isn't privileged from disclosure?" Furthermore, if I read it correctly, the Texas statute on kidnapping and unlawful restraint makes exception "when it is for the purpose of effecting a lawful arrest or detaining an individual lawfully arrested" -- not when it's either arrest or the substitute-for-arrest applicable a juvenile. (There are a bunch of clauses saying it's lawful to restrain a child, or for a child to restrain another child without force, intimidation, or deception. So I might have missed a pseudo-arrest clause in there. But I don't think so.) Nor do I think that this detention constitutes a Terry Stop. Here's how Terry describes arrest: An arrest is the initial stage of a criminal prosecution. It is intended to vindicate society's interest in having its laws obeyed, and it is inevitably accompanied by future interference with the individual's freedom of movement, whether or not trial or conviction ultimately follows. That's what they were doing. At that point, they suspected that he had perpetrated a bomb hoax, and were acting toward a possible prosecution for that offense. Finally, there's video of the police chief being asked about the "arrest", and not objecting to that description of what happened. --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 02:32, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. There is so much about this incident the media has gotten wrong (for instance, saying charges were dropped - there were never any charges filed) that I'm sick of reading the distortions of the truth in the news. Nothing personal, but I'm also sick of talking about whether he was arrested or not arrested, to be honest. -- WV 02:36, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

You really templated me ?[edit]

Nice going, but no. I'm enforcing WP:POLEMIC, consensus exists that his writing is polemic and per the policy, it needs to be removed, full stop. KoshVorlon 16:43, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Yeah. Twice now. Cut the bullshit. You were told to move on. Do it before you get taken to a noticeboard and will surely be blocked. -- WV 16:45, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, cool story bro, but I have both consensus and policy on my side, you don't have anything except WP:ILIKEIT. Take it there, if you dare! KoshVorlon 16:51, 28 September 2015 (UTC) PS: You reverted me with Twinkle and you referred to me edit as vandalism, which it wasn't. That's a mis-use of Twinkle, better read the manual again sport! KoshVorlon 17:06, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Where is this alleged consensus to be found and viewed? -- WV 17:08, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
It was in the edit summary | here . KoshVorlon 17:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────As I said: Blocked for disruptive behavior. You should have seen it coming. -- WV 17:26, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Outing Attempt[edit]

I've warned the IP once more and sent a message to get this stuff suppressed. Is there something I'm missing here? Thanks for your vigilance.

Best, GABHello! 21:25, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Have no idea what the mission here is, but the IP does seem determined. Annoyingly so. Their quoting of policy and use of Wiki-speak tells me they are not new here. -- WV 21:29, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Suppress, indef, rinse and repeat. GABHello! 21:31, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of others' talk page comments[edit]

Information icon Please do not delete or edit legitimate talk page comments, as you did at User talk:Stephkollm. Such edits are disruptive and appear to be vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. 32.218.35.60 (talk) 21:26, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Nope. It's WP:OUTING, and that's strictly prohibited. GABHello! 21:27, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Correct. -- WV 21:27, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Ronald Reagan[edit]

Hello,

I'm confused about the "lack of citation" on my post about Ronald Reagan. I attempted to cite the Economics/Finance blog Calculated Risk. Does the citation not come up? If so, what are the steps necessary to properly include the citation?

Thanks,

Waltersjoe86 (talk) 01:22, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for stopping by. The cite was there. The problem, Waltersjoe86, is a blog is not a reliable source. This was stated in the edit summary where I reverted your addition. There needs to be a reliable source accompanying such content -- especially a change in statistical content. Please see WP:CITE for a better understanding on what is acceptable reference-wise in Wikipedia. -- WV 01:25, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the clarification! I'll find a different source to cite.

Waltersjoe86 (talk) 21:54, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Edit warning?[edit]

You placed a stern edit warning on my Talk page. Care to elaborate? Checkingfax (talk) 03:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Looks pretty clear to me. What's confusing you? -- WV 03:55, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

AfDs of blocked editor's articles[edit]

Please comment here, if you like. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:12, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

No desire to comment there and dive headfirst into the drama. Especially since the user has previously told me to stay off his talk page. But thanks for the thoughtful notifcation/invitation, Anna. -- WV 20:14, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough. What are your thoughts on holding off for a couple of days until it is sorted out? I have yet to start checking to see if his claim of innocence may be true. Are you planning on nominating more? Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:21, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm finished with that work for now, Anna. As far as his claims to not be the banned user, I find it highly doubtful MikeV would have blocked JTV without an SPI and by using CU only if it were not certain they are one and the same. CU is about more than IP addresses for clues. There had to be very solid evidence against JTV for him to block in the manner he did. Regardless, even with simple steps of investigation regarding the usual signs of sockpuppetry taken, this could have easily been a good case for a Duck Block. I have faith in MikeV's determination, I imagine ArbCom will as well. -- WV 21:30, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
I trust Mike V's judgement, of course. I first posted at JTV to start a dialogue with the view that the block is right. DENY is for trolls and vandals. Socks who sock because they think it is the right thing to do should be engaged. Nobody wants to hurt other people, especially volunteers. We spend time here that could be spent with puppies in the park. When someone socks, it hurts us, personally. It steals our time. And it hurts the project they are trying to help. I want socks to make a choice: Own up, make a deal, and come in from the cold ...or... understand that they are really causing harm even though they think they are helping, and stop. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:43, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

G5 category[edit]

According to WP:G5, "G5 should not be applied to transcluded templates or to categories that may be useful or suitable for merging." (emphasis added).

You nominated Category:Papakating Creek watershed, presumably because it was created by JackTheVicar. It looks to me like it might be a useful category. Do you disagree?--S Philbrick(Talk) 01:39, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I deleted Category:Wildlife Management Areas in New Jersey before realizing the exception to G5, so let's discuss that one as well.--S Philbrick(Talk) 01:43, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
I agree it's a useful category, Sphilbrick. I don't, however, agree that it should be kept and should be deleted per G5 but also the spirit behind WP:DENY. It appears that JTV/ColonelHenry is a long-time sockmaster who should really go into the WP:LTA category. Take a look at everything (several sections worth of discussion) at AN/I last year regarding this individual [1]. His antics (and they are quite extensive and messy) go back over a decade. After you take a look there, and you still think the category should stay with JTV as the category creator, I won't protest. -- WV 01:45, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't really need to review the history. I'm comfortable with the concept of DENY (while recognizing that editors have good faith disagreements with the policy.) It is my understanding that G5 exists specifically for the purpose of DENY. I think the transclusian exception exists because we don't want sensible policies generating unreasonable amounts of headache, and deleting trancluded templates would be cutting off our nose to spite your face. However, G5 specifically has an exception for useful categories. I don't know the history of the inclusion of that exception. It may simply be that while no particular article is critical to the encyclopedia and therefore the exclusion won't cause major harm and will achieve our goal of denying recognition, if a category was created that turns out to be useful, it may create more problems than it is worth to delete it. I don't want to belabor this too much but I'd be interested to know if anyone can shed light on the rationale for this exception in case I'm missing something important.
One other possibility is that I delete it and then someone perhaps you are I immediately then re-creates it. Does no copyright infringement for a single word or two, and perhaps that would achieve the goal of DENY while not depriving the encyclopedia of the useful category. Any thoughts?
I may post this at ANI to get broader input.--S Philbrick(Talk) 02:19, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
Your proposal to recreate it is one I have recommended to other editors when they balk at deleting an article or category due to G5/DENY, Sphilbrick. I see it as a win-win for Wikipedia as it keeps the legitimate category but removes the banned/blocked sock from the equation and any history in the creation of it. -- WV 02:22, 1 November 2015 (UTC)


It's a bigger challenge in the case of an article. If you save the text and then simply re-create it you've violated copyright. If you don't say the tax credit from scratch good for you but that's a lot of work. At least with a three word category you don't have to worry about either.
This isn't a rush.
I want to emphasize, because sometimes text doesn't convey the right connotation, that I'm not criticizing your nomination. I'm genuinely puzzled that an apparently clear-cut CSD category has two exceptions, one I understand (I think) while the other isn't quite so clear to me.
There are also some additional complications. The editor in question denies being the originally blocked editor. I think that's being discussed behind the scenes and we shall hear at some time what they conclude. In addition to the two categories there is a good article in the mix.
In terms of timing, I'm signing off for the evening, have a meeting in the morning, then have to rush off to another family meeting in another state. Expect to be back in the afternoon and will look to see if there's any update on the functionary review. Depending on the results of that, I may post something at ANI to see if the possibility of deleting and re-creating is a good idea or not.--S Philbrick(Talk) 02:54, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
In terms of the article, considering what you have pointed out, it would be impractical and unwise, Sphilbrick. I'm not quite sure what the solution is, however, I have seen articles deleted but re-drafted later and then recreated. I do want to make it clear: my actions in regard to the articles and such created and edited by the editor in question, have been nothing less than honorable and never for the purpose of anything other than what is right and for the good of the encyclopedia. Certainly not a personal vendetta. I state this only because I am being accused by some of having nefarious motives with the reverts and AfDs and speedy deletion noms I have made today. As far as that editor now blocked, this will all be clear in time. As I have said elsewhere in the last several hours, I have faith in MikeV's decision to block and why. I am confident that the CU he performed was correct and that he wouldn't have blocked in the manner he did unless the results were without question. And yes, no rush. -- WV 03:06, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
I saw, without looking closely, that there were other aspersions cast at you. That was part of the reason I made the comment I did. Without comment on any of the other issues, I fully support the action you took in this case and we are, as editors are supposed to do, talking it through, to make sure that conflicting priorities are handled correctly.--S Philbrick(Talk) 12:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Advice[edit]

I'm looking for a more experienced editor to help me with a potential BLP issue. I made this edit [2] to remove a claim implying (if not directly claiming) criminal fraud. The source for the claim is a single buzzfeed article, which I understood as insufficient for negative BLP claims. My removal was reverted [3]. Is my understanding of sourcing requirements wrong? If not, can you advise me on how to proceed? I don't intend to edit war. Thank you. 107.150.94.5 (talk) 06:02, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

As the reverting editor pointed out in his edit summary, previous discussion on the article talk page is in regard to Buzzfeed being a reliable source. I don't think you can do anything more, considering such. And be careful not to violate WP:3RR should you continue editing there over the next 24 hours. -- WV 06:10, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

ANI thread[edit]

Please just do not answer the undue etc stuff. It only encourages them and the thread is already almost swamped in back and forth. Thank you! Cheers. JbhTalk 19:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

No worries, I had no intention of answering. It's obvious (especially considering his history) that he's looking to stir the pot and derail the discussion. -- WV 19:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I sometimes give in to the temptation to respond to that type. ANI - Wikipedia's gladiator pit - "fun for the whole family" m(

Also thank you for bringing up the issue at ANI yesterday, I didn't have the time to pay attention to anything beyond gnomish stuff between random spurts of RL activity. JbhTalk 20:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Rocky Dennis edit[edit]

Hi, just got your message on my talk page. I'm relatively new to this so I'm not sure how to link to the relevant rule pages, but my edits that you undid fall perfectly within the guidelines.

1. The un-boldening of the quote marks around the name "Rocky" is in line with all other articles that follow this rule (see Tom Hardy or Caitlin Moran).

2. Unlinking 'American' is correct, as it's unnecessary linking.

3. His parents should not be mentioned in the infobox unless they have Wiki pages of their own which can be linked to.

4. Large geographical areas should also not be linked, specifically countries; this is why I unlinked the US.

5. I added the US to the end of his birth and death places because I'm yet to see an article on a person (non-sportsperson) where this wasn't the case.

Let me know if we need to discuss this further; I realise I would have a much stronger case if I could find the relevant rule pages to link to, so sorry about that. All I know is that my edits fall within the lines of advice given to me by senior editors. -- HughMorris15 (talk) 17:04, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

HughMorris15: Regarding the above:
  • 3 - His parents most certainly should be named in the infobox. It's the names of any non-notable children you don't add.
  • 4 - There's no harm in linking large geographical areas.
  • Other changes made: Your size push of the image was totally unnecessary. The year you put in the caption was impossible since Dennis went to junior high in the 1970s and died in 1978. And yes, you really need to be quoting specific policy if policy is what you say you are going by. No one is perfect, and I think you were trying to improve the article, however, the changes you made didn't seem like improvements. To be honest, they seemed a bit like intentional disruptive editing (especially with the year change being completely incorrect). -- WV 17:12, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Winkelvi:
The year change was a complete mistake on my part (mobile editing; I should've paid more attention), and I appreciate you pointing that out, though it's a bit paranoid to assume that it's intentional disruptive editing when you can blatantly see from my history that I don't go around trying to do that stuff. The size change of the image was, again, something I was told was the norm for biographies. I guess I was given dud info. Could you link me to the pages about linking geographical areas and including parents in the infobox? I'm pretty sure you're incorrect on both counts, as I've been scolded by senior editors before ("large geographical areas shouldn't be linked because there's too much blue in one space for it to be easily readable", "non-notable relatives of any kind have no point in being in the infobox"), but I'd be happy to be proven wrong if you could help me out with a link to some help pages. HughMorris15 (talk) 17:19, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Not "paranoid" at all. If you had any clue how much vandalism and disruptive editing takes place in Wikipedia during a 24-hour period, and how much many of us have been dealing with for a while, you wouldn't call it paranoid at all. And it doesn't always come from anonymous IP editors. Yes, it does come from those with accounts. Especially new accounts such as yours.
Pretty much everything you need to know policy-wise can be found from this starting point: WP:PG. If you don't get your answers there, keep looking. As far as having been "scolded" in the past, sometimes WP:COMMONSENSE just needs to be applied along with WP:IAR. -- WV 17:52, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

RE Ben Carson edit warring[edit]

Hi Winkelvi, Not sure if you're aware but Calibrador is Gage Skidmore, There's a huge report here, Long story short he prefers his name on every single image in every single article and there's nothing we can do, If you edit war and go to 3RRNO his buddies will probably turn up and defend him so to be absolutely honest it's not worth it in the long run,
Anyway just thought I should make you aware :),
Thanks & Happy editing :), –Davey2010Talk 18:05, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I know who he is and really don't care if he's a professional photographer or if his buddies show up. The photo he's edit warring over was too dark - the one I replaced it with is a better rendition. Don't know if you are aware, but he was blocked by Bbb23 back in June for the same kind of edit warring behavior over one of the photos he contributed. This is an ongoing issue for him, and his ownership issues are obvious. If he doesn't want to have the photos he takes and contributes changed, he shouldn't submit them to Wikipedia where they are fair game for being edited or removed. That's my feeling about it, anyway. Thanks for the heads up - always good to hear from you, Davey. Hope you are well and, if you celebrate, have a Happy Thanksgiving! -- WV 18:18, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Ah right sorry Face-grin.svg, Ah I didn't realize you amended the photo - I thought you just reuploaded it under a new name Face-grin.svg, To be honest it'll always be an issue, Anyway it's nice to hear from you too! :), I don't think we celebrate Thanksgiving in the UK but thanks and I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving too :) –Davey2010Talk 18:46, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Oops! I forgot you are not on this side of the pond. We Americans in en.wikipedia tend to think of ourselves as the only ones here. Have a good upcoming weekend, then! :-) -- WV 18:56, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Haha well most people on here are american so it's easy to think that Face-grin.svg, Thanks and You have a great weekend too :) .. Infact have a very Merry Christmas too haha Face-grin.svg. –Davey2010Talk 19:14, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi and DRN question[edit]

Hi Winkelvi, I don't believe we've been formally introduced before, but I've seen you around on the wiki. I'm wia; nice to meet you! I'm wondering whether you're interested in continuing the DRN moderated discussion over at the Talk:Shah Rukh Khan dispute. I don't mind jumping in and helping out there if you're not able to or have other things on the go. Let me know if that's okay with you! Thanks, /wia /tlk 21:32, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, feel free to jump in. I looked at it yesterday, and didn't see any real progress. I will head over there now, but you are welcome to help out. -- WV 21:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

DR/N Khan etc.[edit]

Hi, please note the following edit. Based on the input at DR/N it seems pretty clear the content should not be in the lead. Best, Semitransgenic talk. 17:05, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, Semitransgenic. -- WV 17:08, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
can you advise? it appears another editor believes the dispute is unresolved 1,2. Semitransgenic talk. 20:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
for the record, second attempt to address objectivity matter. Semitransgenic talk. 23:38, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

over there at CS talk[edit]

after at least 8 edit conflicts - I'm going to watch some NFL for a bit. :-) — Ched :  ?  19:38, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

  • Oh - for future reference, what I was trying to post:
  • (edit conflict)x? In response to "sources say": Most of the sources at this time are news articles. Wikipedia in not a newspaper. We are an encyclopedia. (or at least that's what I've been led to believe). — Ched :  ?  19:39, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
NFL sounds good to me, too, Ched. The POV pushers are about to have a stroke, I think. :-) -- WV 19:47, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Alsee[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm Alsee. I noticed that you've Templated The Regulars, and pointlessly did so while you were already engaged in an article talk discussion with the user. These templates serve to explain the various policies to new editors. When novice editors breach policies, it is quite possible (if we assume good faith, which we must) that they are unaware of them, and educating them is helpful. On the other hand, most editors who have been around for a while are aware of these policies. If you believe that they have broken (or are about to breach) one, it is frequently the result of some disagreement over the interpretation of the policy, or temporarily heated tempers. In such situations, sticking to "did you know we had a policy here" mentality tends to be counter-productive in resolving the issue, as it can be construed as being patronising and uncivil.

Professional staff operating under professional editorial control are not commonly classified as "bloggers", and they do not fall under Self-published sources portion of policy. If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message at Reliable Sources Noticeboard#Salon.com. Alsee (talk) 01:02, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Sure, it could be construed that way -- if someone is overly sensitive and defensive. Or someone could see it as a reminder and a chance to stop and think about what they are doing or have done. In which case, leaving such a template is a helpful thing to do.
Professional staff at online publications most certainly can -- and are -- classified as bloggers. You've heard of the Huffington Post, have you not? There are also other online news-blogs where their writers are referred to as "bloggers". If you aren't aware of this, you should take the time to familiarize yourself with it. As far as referencing goes, no, I don't need a refresher, nor am I in any way a "beginner". Nice attempt at condescension and being patronizing/uncivil. Something you are chastising me for. Ironic, isn't it, Alsee? -- WV 03:55, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
I'll concede I was a bit pointy tossing your tutorial back at you, but there's no high ground for you to claim here. I can just echo back every comment about the templates. They sound just as (un)reasonable to me, as they would sound to you, if I copy-pasted them back.
I thought about what I had done. I had posted a Due Weight Reliable Source, accurately informing the reader how sources generally cover the subject. I understand you may not fully agree with my policy interpretations on that. I understand you were trying to protect a BLP. But there was an on-going article talk and we could have constructively and respectfully discussed any policy disagreements. It was very bad form to template my talk page, especially in the middle of discussions on article talk. I don't need a tutorial any more than you do. I fluently cited a pile of Policies and Policy subsections backing up many of your reverts. And did you notice that you posted a beginner tutorial directly below Wikipedia Tech Newsletter??
Hopefully things aren't too tense to make this comment, I'll try to be as constructive and collaborative as possible: We're on the same team trying to improve the encyclopedia. When someone makes an edit with several changes - and you have cause to revert one aspect - please don't jump to the revert button. Please keep the good parts and manually revert the objectionable piece. Alsee (talk) 08:14, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Have you read this?[edit]

FYI, a really wonderful article by Eric Garcia on being a journalist with autism from a somewhat unexpected media outlet, the National Journal. Hope the link works for you. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 17:58, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

It's a great article. Thanks for sharing it, Vesuvius Dogg. -- WV 18:32, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

MacFarlane[edit]

Hello Winkelvi,

Just looking for feedback as to why you reverted my edit for Seth MacFarlane as I removed the ambiguity and misinformation about his ancestry and provided a reference.

The original statement was: He is of English, Scottish, and Irish descent,[citation needed]

My edit was: He is of Canadian and English descent[1]

In my research, I found no evidence he is of either Scottish or Irish ancestry. His genealogy, the reference I used, which is the same reference used in the page for William Brewster goes back to 1620 and does not show any Scottish or Irish ancestry. One cannot make the assumption of ancestry based on his last name. Besides, in the last 400 years he has no Scottish or Irish ancestors.

Perhaps you would agree with this edit: He is of English descent[2] since this is the only known fact of his ancestry.

Take Care Rapprochement (talk) 03:18, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

We can't add content derived from original research, which is what your edit added up to absent of a reliable source. I agree that a last name doesn't always equate a certain ancestry, however, in MacFarlane's case, I think his ancestry is a given (unless his father or another MacFarlane ancestor of his father's was adopted). At this time, I'm going to put a cite needed tag on the content about his ancestry being Scottish. As of yet, I can't find anything that is a reliable source which supports his ancestry. -- WV 03:53, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

References

Timed Text MFD's[edit]

Please stop nominating these with the same rationale - I agree this is a cloudy area and needs to be fleshed out, but MFD is not the best venue for this. I am going to abort all of these and refer to a centralized discussion at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. If these ARE copyvios, they don't need to go through MFD, as they would be speedy candidates. — xaosflux Talk 03:36, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Wow. Could you be any more rude about this, Xaosflux? Being an admin and having the tools to delete with a click of the mouse doesn't give you carte blanche to be so abrupt and bring this to me in such a brusque, harsh manner. The way you've communicated here seems to be designed to shame me, as if I broke something or committed some huge policy vio. I didn't and you could have been much more kind. 'Tis the season to be jolly, after all. -- WV 04:14, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm so sorry this came across in such a negative way. In rereading my statement above, you are correct and this was very poorly communicated by me. I think you have brought up a VERY important point and these do need to be dealt with. I hope you will continue in the discussion and not be put off by this. — xaosflux Talk 04:19, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for walking it back a bit, xaosflux. I never meant to do anything inappropriate - obviously, because I did do it, I thought it was the right thing to do. No longer put off and I will take part in the discussion. Thanks again, and best of the holiday season to you! -- WV 04:22, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

WTF?[edit]

What "stated POV"? I have an opinion, that a used car salesman is a specific thing and distinct from a salesman who also sells new cars. That is hardly controversial! There are a metric fucktonne of sources describing Duggar's business as a "used car lot" and him as a "used car salesman". This is lame beyond belief! Guy (Help!) 01:08, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

WTF, indeed. What's truly "lame beyond belief" is that an editor of 10+ years is defending the your use of "used" tagged onto car salesman because in your opinion all used car salesmen are of low character and that's the appropriate description for the subject of a BLP in spite of policy on BLPs and POV. [4], [5] -- WV 01:16, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
And all because that's what the sources say. How stupid of me to want to follow the sources. Guy (Help!) 18:54, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
Please, cut the bullshit. This edit summary from you, "there is a differenc ein character between those who sell cars and those who only sell used cars." (found here: [6]), shows exactly why you wanted that content in: POV agenda. Has nothing to do with sources, and you know it. -- WV 19:14, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your notice[edit]

Hi Winkelvi, I hope you don't mind that I've removed your notice from my talk page. I do appreciate the reminder, but I wanted to say that I knew better and should have left that bit out. It was late last night and I was trying to sort out the best way to communicate the problem, and I dropped the ball on that one. I am bipolar and get quite hyper sometimes. I will remember in future. Thank you. Carlstak (talk) 15:39, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Just thought I'd let you know[edit]

LP has filed a sub-section on you on the AN/I report against him; you may want to reply. Not involved, just saw the thread and thought it was strange that he hadn't notified you. Kindest regards, Chesnaught (talk) 19:46, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I responded to allegations he made in the thread, so notification is fine but I don't believe it is required. Legacypac (talk) 19:55, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Chesnaught555, thank you for letting me know, I truly appreciate it. I have responded at the AN/I report in regard to the subsection and the non-notification by LP. -- WV 20:24, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

No problem sir. Chesnaught (talk) 17:25, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia writing guidelines[edit]

In your recent edits to Billy the Kid, you have cited several rules in your edit summaries:

  • better wording, colons are to be avoided in prose such as this
  • we are to write so the average 6th grader can understand what they are reading
  • if "of" is kept, it should not be redundant (referring to the change from "guilty of the murder of Sheriff Brady" to "guilty of Sheriff Brady's murder")

I'm not sure where you're finding these rules (especially that about the sixth grade reading level). In the last case, I actually prefer the first formulation ("guilty of the murder of Sheriff Brady"). The second formulation implies a possession of the murder by Sheriff Brady rather than Brady being the victim of the murder. The general upshot here is that you appear to be making minor changes that do not improve the article, merely for the sake of making the changes. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

WikiDan61: I'm sure those actually reviewing the article for GA will pick up on any issues and comment accordingly. As far as your final, parting shot that I'm not improving the article, I guess that kind of assessment varies from editor to editor. Do you have anything to say that is encouraging? Personally, I get tired of editors seemingly forgetting we're all volunteers, giving up our own time to make the encyclopedia better - not to intentionally "not improve [articles]". I get tired of editors whom they have never communicated with or meaningfully encountered prior that their writing looks like shit. If you have something encouraging to say, please do. If not, please stay away from this talk page. You are making comments that "do not improve" my attitude and cause me to ignore everything you have said here. -- WV 16:37, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

19 Kids and Counting - Anna's birthday edit[edit]

Hi Winkelvi! I just made a recent edit regarding the grammar of Anna's birthday on the 19 Kids and Counting page. As it stands, the entry reads "Anna Renée Keller (born June 23, 1988 (age 27)[98] married Josh Duggar on September 26, 2008." As you can see, there is an open paren "(" but no close paren because the ones surrounding her age do not correspond with the one for her birthdate. I attempted to explain this in my edit summary, but I think I did not explain it well. Additionally, the other members of the family have a separate set of brackets surrounding their birthday information and the citation, as in "Derick Michael Dillard [born March 9, 1989 (age 26)][citation needed] married Jill on June 21, 2014. Children" and "Benjamin Michael "Ben" Seewald [born May 19, 1995 (age 20)][citation needed] married Jessa on November 1, 2014.[46]" (bold added by me for emphasis). I'm just curious as to why you did not accept this edit and reported it as vandalism? I was simply trying to make the form consistent across the page and add a close paren (or bracket) as is customarily and grammatically correct. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.152.108.87 (talk) 07:35, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

It did appear there was some vandalism going on, but I apologize for not seeing the first parenthesis that went with the one you inserted. I have fixed the bracketing problem. Thanks for bringing this error to my attention. I will remove the warnings from your talk page. -- WV 07:57, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Acute accent in "née" - re Billy The Kid[edit]

Hello again. I'm pretty sure that there is an acute accent in the word "née" - it is French and means "born". In your recent edit to BTK I noticed you removed it. I reverted some vandalism on that page just now, but is it OK for me to place the accent back? Kindest regards, Chesnaught (talk) 12:50, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)You are correct; it is the French/female word for surname/family name at birth. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 13:07, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Gareth Griffith-Jones Thank you Gareth (fellow Welsh user too!). I will do that now. Chesnaught (talk) 13:11, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Glad to "meet" you!
Hi! to Winkelvi. Are you affected by the blizzard? — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 13:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
And likewise sir. Saw that on the news this morning. Chesnaught (talk) 13:17, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for handling the acute accent, Chesnaught. 'Hi' back to you, Gareth! No snow issues where I live at the moment. Would love to have that problem, though. Everyone loves a snow day, right? Cheers, -- WV 19:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Once again, no problem sir. Chesnaught (talk) 20:02, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

January 2016 2[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Floquenbeam (talk) 22:35, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

This has gone on too long; 5 blocks for edit warring in the past (not counting the one that was exempt. In particular, you continued to edit war after warning the other editor about edit warring, and after starting a discussion at WP:ANEW. If an unblock is requested, I'll defer to any uninvolved admin, but my own opinion is that this needs to stick for the full week, so Winkelvi realizes that he actually can't do this anymore, then promise to stop after the block. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:38, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Floquenbeam, I finally had time today to get all the edits done at BtK that were being suggested at the GA2 review for the article by BlueMoonset and Display name 99. In a week, I will no longer have that time. I also have noticed at the 3RR report that you blocked without looking at the comments EdJohnston had made there, yet you think your block is the answer. EdJohnston didn't think immediate blocking was the answer. This seems kind of like a WP:WHEELWAR situation to me, but I could be wrong. Regardless, now the GA is pretty much fucked because I can't edit the article for a week and in a week won't have time to do so. I could say "Thanks", but that would be inappropriately sarcastic. -- WV 22:56, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
My block conflicted with Ed's comment; I didn't overrule him, I acted in what I thought was the best way, and saw his comment after I was done with both of you. Calling this wheel warring is cynical wikilawyering; you know it isn't true. So don't do that. And don't blame me for screwing up the GA work, blame yourself. Also, I don't think your ping of Ed worked, so I'll do it here: @EdJohnson:. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:00, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Oh for crying out loud. Trying again: @EdJohnston:. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:01, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Winkelvi (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)


Request reason:

EdJohnston had stated at the 3RR noticeboard that both editors should stop edit warring. I noted his comment, decided to no longer revert at the article, and that was that. From what I read at the 3RR report, EdJohnston was saying "stop edit warring now or you will be blocked", and I heeded that advice. As far as what has now been deemed edit warring on my part: I continued to revert because the addition of incorrect content and section headers looked and felt like vandalism to me -- especially after the filing of the ANEW, the AN/I report, and the repeated warnings on the other user's talk page by me and one other editor seemed to be totally ignored. After Ed's comments at the ANEW report, I realized my edits weren't being seen as legitimate, and decided to stop reverting regardless if it appeared to be necessary. As far as my part in this, I was honestly seeing something that - as it turns out - wasn't happening. Ed's comments (because I have always trusted his judgement in the past as he has always been fair with me previously) was the snap back into reality I needed to see what was really going on. In the way of further disruption, this block is unnecessary, because -- as I stated above -- I've seen the error in my perception. I have to say that the block itself seems to fly in the face of what Ed already noted at the 3RR filing. I am trying to bring the article (Billy the Kid) to GA status. This block puts a serious lid on that effort -- I finally had time today to perform the edits being recommended at the GA review, in a week, when this block is slated to expire, I no longer will have the time. I imagine the GA nom will now fail because of the edit warring and my block, rendering me unable to continue working on toward GA status. I hope someone will recognize my sincerity and reverse or shorten the block. Truly, I have NO intention of edit warring at this article or causing any further disruption. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 22:41, 30 January 2016 (UTC) *NOTE: I'm asking anyone who might review this unblock request to also look at my most recent response to Floquenbeam below. I'd add it here, but don't want to increase the already existing wall of text. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 03:13, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Accept reason:

Okay, having discussed it with interested parties, I'm now unblocking you with the following caveats;
  1. You are now on a 1RR restriction. This means no more than 1 revert within a 24 hour period per article.
  2. Any attempt to "game" the system, such as reverting just out the 24 hour window will be treated as a violation of the restriction.
  3. If you break the restriction, you can be blocked for 1 month.
  4. The restriction lasts for three months and hence expires on 1 May 2016.
  5. You are a grown up, so I'm not going to be stalking your edits, pouncing on you at any point you may make two reverts within 24 hours. However, if anyone else is tempted to do that, I'll remind them that it takes two to edit war, and it is perfectly possible for other parties to be blocked as well, to prevent disputes escalating. This restriction is not an entitlement for others to "dump on Winkelvi", so watch it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:20, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Unblocking administrator: Please check for active autoblocks on this user after accepting the unblock request.
  • NOTE: I'm asking anyone who might review this unblock request to also look at my most recent response to Floquenbeam below. I'd add it here, but don't want to increase the already existing wall of text. -- WV 03:13, 31 January 2016 (UTC)}}

I agree with the block. It was surprising that Winkelvi continued to revert. Given his block log, there is not much excuse for him to keep reverting so long after the matter was filed at AN3. EdJohnston (talk) 23:16, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

EdJohnston: I continued to revert because the addition of incorrect content and section headers looked and felt like vandalism to me -- especially after the filing of the ANEW, the AN/I report, and the repeated warnings on the other user's talk page by me and one other editor. After your comments at the ANEW report, I realized my edits weren't being seen as legitimate, and decided to stop reverting regardless if it appeared to be necessary. On my part, it was honestly seeing something that wasn't happening. Your comments (because I have always trusted your judgement in the past and you have always been fair with me previously) was the snap back into reality I needed to see what was really going on. -- WV 23:22, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
One more thing Floquenbeam and EdJohnston: My ANEW report was ignored while others around it were tended to. When I filed it last night, there was no backlog. This isn't the first time AN3 reports I've filed have been completely disregarded. I've had the same thing happen at other noticeboards. Legitimate concerns ignored while similar reports filed by others are taken care of in a timely manner or even immediately, the editor(s) being reported allowed to continue edit warring, harassing, and so on. Please tell me what someone is supposed to do if Admins don't step in? Just let the edit warring, insertion of inaccurate content, perceived vandalism, etc. stand? I realize there is no deadline in Wikipedia, but when trying to get an article to GA status and it seems like there are those who are trying to sabotage the process, it's pretty frustrating. We are volunteers here who are trying to better the encyclopedia. It's my impression that the purpose of GA status is supposed to be moving toward that goal. When our legitimate concerns get ignored, it feels like no one really gives a shit about what the purpose of this place is supposed to be. -- WV 00:00, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I can't speak to the whole delayed-response issue you raise - I don't know the answer. But I do have a couple of comments that might help:
  • If you reach the point where a report to ANEW is needed, that's a very strong signal that you need to stop reverting too.
  • You're operating under the assumption that you are right and the other editor is acting in bad faith. When you approach it that way, you're ultimately setting yourself up for getting blocked. You say that you thought the other editor was vandalizing, but there was no reason whatsoever to think that. It was not a reasonable assumption. He may or may not be wrong, but if you start out assuming someone who disagrees with you is a vandal, you're causing problems for yourself. You seem to do that a lot.
  • When you react to another editor with aggression, it shouldn't be a surprise when they do the same. It doesn't make their aggression right, but it does make your acting all innocent wrong.
  • You can ask for uninvolved eyes at the appropriate Wikiproject talk page, or WP:3O, or some other WP:DR method, rather than act as if it is only you who can make the article better.
  • If someone disagrees with one of your edits, that doesn't prevent you from editing other parts of the article to bring those up to GA standard. You're acting as if his disagreeing with that section brought all your GA work to a screeching halt, delaying all further improvement. There was no reason for that to be the case.
  • I am not saying he did things right; he's blocked too. But you've been through this before. If 5 previous blocks for edit warring haven't resulted in change, then you shouldn't be surprised at the sixth. And, ultimately, a very long seventh, and a likely indef eighth.
  • You might consider a voluntary 1RR restriction; it would be essentially impossible for you to get in edit warring trouble if you only revert people once.
--Floquenbeam (talk) 00:41, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Floquenbeam: After reading this through a few times, I have to say I felt my heart go into my throat a little bit because of the truth in it. As smart as I am, I can't say I recognized or saw until now how right it all is. Yes, all of it. But especially the parts about what I see and what others see. For too long, I've been looking at what I do here from my own eyes rather than thinking about what others could be seeing and thinking. Not in a manner than equates being uncaring about the participation of others, but in the way that many of us see our participation on the internet: alone with our keyboards and no one else is in the room participating. Which, literally is true, however, the "Wikipedia room" is invisible and there are hundreds, thousands upon thousands in that room at the same time -- and we should never forget that nor should we forget they are also involved in the experience in which we are taking part. Talk about an epiphany!
Editing here for a while, 20k+ edits, and it took me this long to really "get" what you've said here? Stubbornness has always been one of my biggest faults; not seeing things with clear-headedness is also one of my character flaws (mostly due to being on the Autism spectrum). I will keep these words from you around for a reminder in the future. But, back to the edit warring: I know I should stick to 1RR but remembering to do so when it really counts has not been my strong suit in the past.
Thanks for your patience in explaining all of this above -- I sincerely appreciate it. Great advice. I will take it all and make it new day forward for me in the editing-realm. -- WV 00:59, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Winkelvi, I don't think we have encountered each other much but I am very used to seeing your name at WP:ANEW. I did a quick count and I found 42 edit-warring cases where you were either reported or, more often, reporting another editor. Some of these cases resulted in a valid block of the other editor who you reported but I have to wonder why you keep finding yourselves in these edit war situations.
Continually finding oneself in an edit war with another editor, even if the other editor is at fault, is not an ideal situation and invariably leads to blocks like this. I'm not going to lift Floq's block, I think your unblock request should be considered by an admin more familiar with your editing, but I think you should do a little self-reflection and think about how you can avoid finding yourselves in the midst of these edit wars. You might alert an admin to an edit war going on rather than filing more ANEW reports which can often just inflame bad feelings between warring editors. Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I got Ritchie's ping, but haven't read some of the comments here yet, as I'm a little swamped this morning. @Ritchie333:, Winkelvi, whatever you guys can agree to is fine with me. Is 1RR for forever, or time limited? I'm still OK with it either way, but it's a detail you should figure out. Winkelvi, I saw your post above, that's promising, I hope it is indeed a sea change of some kind. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:26, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Since Floq said "next block will be for a month" in the current block notice, why don't we go with that ie: 1RR probation lasts for a month, going over it gets a month's block? It's enough time to show that Winkelvi really does want to change for the better. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:28, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Ritchie333 et al, one-third through this section I was already thinking that this might end with a 1R restriction, albeit I wasn't thinking of a voluntary one. Winkelvi is pretty prolific so maybe a month is enough; then again, if we're going to overturn a weeklong block on the second day, we should make it clear that we're serious about the other end of the bargain, so maybe three months is more appropriate. Keep in mind, Winkelvi, that such a restriction is as much to protect you from yourself (as patronizing as that sounds--my apologies) as it is to prevent the disruption for others. What's just as important, though, is the realization that GA reviews and whatnot are not an excuse for anything, but Floq already said that. Liz, you have any opinions? Drmies (talk) 18:58, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
I think that those who have worked with Winkelvi should take the lead in deciding to lift this block AND holding him/her accountable to the conditions of the unblock. Personally, I think the 1R restriction should last longer than one month but if the result of a violation of the restriction is a month-long block, that should be an incentive to adhere to it. I also don't think otherwise productive behavior gives an editor license to violate other Wikipedia policies, practices and guidelines. But I think the goal of most admins in cases like this is to try to bring an end to disruptive editing and if Ritchie333 believes this is a solution, I'll defer to his judgment. Liz Read! Talk! 19:20, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm not an admin but I'd like to weigh in quick. Why is there consideration for lifting a block while WV is ignoring the block right below this discussion, pinging and even fighting with editors? As long as his flagrant lies about me remain with no Admin action at the of ANi, followed by his efforts to topic ban me below that I prefer to see him remain unable to edit. Legacypac (talk) 19:08, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Legacypac, that you are not an admin is both correct and a correct statement. Kindly refrain from piling on here: we are more than capable of handling ourselves and looking at all the angles. You are not going to rehash and reargue the points made in that ANI thread. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 19:16, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Drmies, I concur. WV has previously asked for LP to refrain from posting on his talk page. I take it you've read the AN/I report. Ches (talk) 19:19, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Drmies, Ritchie333, Floquenbeam, Liz: I have read what everyone has written here -- the advice and the proposal(s). The advice is great, the proposal(s) confusing. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to agree to or where these proposals stand. It seems what started today has been abandoned (which is fine, I know everyone has their own life to tend to). Some clarification would be helpful. The first proposal was 1RR, indef block if 1RR breached. The second proposal is 1RR for one month, one month block if 1RR breached. The third proposal is 1RR for three months, one month block if breached. And, am I to assume that if I wait out my block, I will be subject to the typical 3RR, and I could expect a one month block if 3RR is breached? Thanks for all the admins who have taken the time to comment thoughtfully as well as Chesnaught555 who has taken a productive interest in the GA Review I've been involved in and has offered to help out there. -- WV 00:09, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

  • This is administration in action, Winkelvi. We're trying to figure out what we can all agree on. Only's comment below is insightful, and you know it's true: you have have a large number of unfruitful interactions with others, many of them of the repetitive and disruptive kind. Now, in all those cases you were probably absolutely correct (like I usually am), and I know a few cases where you certainly were, but the fact remains that, well, you act a bit rashly sometimes. This is why we're discussing a 1R restriction--I know, from experience with other users, that this can work.

    If you wait out your block, that is if nothing else happens or is decided here, well, I suppose you're back to normal again, but you have to remember that an editor doesn't need to get to 2R or 3R to be guilty of edit warring. In other words, it is very likely that you can get blocked after just one revert. With a 1R regimen, at least you get the one! In principle, that is--3R is not a carte blanche to go reverting, and neither is 1R.

    Ritchie333, given the comments by Liz and Only, I think three months is a good idea. My dear Winkelvi, you and I have some history, and I have been on your side more times than not, I think; I want to see you editing, not being blocked. Drmies (talk) 03:51, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, you have been on my side many times, Drmies. I've always appreciated your advice, your humor, your ability to see things for what they really are and cut through the b.s. You're a good man. -- WV 04:30, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Arbitrary break[edit]

(talk page stalker) Liz made a comment about how it's telling that you've been involved in 42 different 3RR reports either as reporter or reportee. I think the number of people who are banned from your talk page (per your own decrees) is also quite telling. Since you've been blocked, I've noticed you speicfically mention 2 users being banned. I also have seen plenty of others over the past year or so who are banned from your talk page. And I know others have banned you from theirs. This suggests a lot of aggressiveness and contention that goes against the collaborative nature of Wikipedia. only (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

You are making a lot of assumptions here, Only. "the number of people who are banned from your talk page" How many are there, Only? Any clue? You seem to be thinking there are more than two - indeed, from your comments, you seem to imagine it's a large number. Any idea why I've asked certain editors to stay off my talk page? I'll give you the answer for this since you likely don't know (based on the fact you are making assumptions): every one of them have a history of harassing, haranguing or attempting to bully me. More than one of those asked to stay away from this user space has been caught tag-team vandalizing said user space. Some only communicate with me in order to provide extremely negative commentary, and usually when I am - what some would say - "down", their comments noted to be "piling on" (not just by me, by the way). Come on, Only, you've been here long enough to have witnessed such editors and that kind of behavior: kicking people when they are down, gravedancing, chiding, taunting. That's pretty much the only reason(s) I will have to request editors stay off this talk page. I don't think that's wrong at all. And, by the way, I've never told someone they are "banned" from this user space. I've only ever asked someone (in some cases told them) to stay away. So, now I have to wonder: what is your' point in coming here? Looks and feels like more piling on and kicking when I'm down. That's hardly part of "the collaborative nature of Wikipedia" you invoked above. -- WV 03:40, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
yes, that's EXACTLY why I came here. To pile on and kick you when you're down. Not to lend another admin's insight into an unblock discussion that is ongoing. (Hopefully you caught the sarcasm in these lines). What a poor lack of good faith here. As for the number, I don't have a count, but I know of five off the top of my head which is a large number compared to the amount of people a typical Wikipedia user has banned from his talk page (usually it's around zero). only (talk) 04:01, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, please stop piling on. What a pathetic excuse for an admin to simply show up to berate a blocked editor. Do you not have enough decency or self-respect to limit your sarcasm to your own talk page? Invite Winkelvi to comment thre if you wish to continue the discussion. Leave the condescension to your own talk page. It's obviously not welcome here and your judgement is lacking if you think this helps. --DHeyward (talk) 04:28, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Sarcasm noted. Silly edit warring at a blocked user's user space also noted. To the admins taking part in it: great example. -- WV 04:27, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Winkelvi, you are free to remove any comments on your talk page that you find unhelpful. Including my comments and sarcastic admin comments. They may revert me, but would be on shaky ground to revert you on your own talk page. You don't have to ban anyone to remove their comments. --DHeyward (talk) 04:50, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, indeed. And thank you for the reminder. This, and your attempt to help is greatly appreciated. I've always thought of you as a stand-up individual. Even more so now. -- WV 04:57, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Billy the Kid[edit]

The article Billy the Kid you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold Symbol wait.svg. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Billy the Kid for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Display name 99 -- Display name 99 (talk) 16:00, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Hold on[edit]

Display name 99, I'd appreciate it if you would look into things before you start pointing fingers inappropriately, inaccurately as well as making pronouncements about the GA review that you are the main reviewer of, but others have had to step in and assist you with. BlueMoonset doesn't seem to think (according to his comments on the article talk page) that things need to be finished in a specific time frame for the GA review to continue. You might want to check with him on that. I'm blocked for 7 days but you want me to fix everything within seven days? That hardly seems logical or fair. Further, you have invited MaranoFan, someone with a history of harassing me, vandalizing my user space, hounding my edits, and recently, intentionally trying to stir up trouble at this GA to work on getting the article to GA status? Really? Did you notice that he placed a "article needs help" category at the article being reviewed just today? Is that a helpful or collegial move on his part? Of course not. It's a way to needle and WP:POKE me because he knows I can't do a damned thing about it. It's likely to get others at the article based on the category and put a good wrench into the points raised. He knows it, he's trying to get the article failed, and that's his only interest in the article. Trust me. I, and several other editors, have been dealing with his antics for over a year. Last, you claimed that I did not try to compromise with Shooterseven. That's a falsehood. I did try to compromise with him. He ignored it and continued to edit war and remove sourced content and place incorrect content in the article. Chesnaught555 has offered to work on the article and keep an eye on it during my block. He's about the only one, at this point, that I trust to take up where I left off because he seems to have a handle on doing what's right there. Hopefully he will have time to do so. But, please, if you are going to comment on the goings on at the article and the players, know what's been happening before making snap judgements that are inaccurate and make the whole thing worse than it has become. Thanks. -- WV 17:25, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm completely free this week minus school and all that (I can access a library computer there though). I will have the time, I promise. Ches (talk) 17:31, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I removed the section inviting you to edit because when I wrote it I was unaware of the block. Anyway, MaranoFan and Chesnaught555 are both free to edit the article, as is anyone else who is not blocked. I have been in communication with both of them. Anyone who can wish may edit it so long as he does not commit vandalism. I will monitor the edits made and make recommendations accordingly. If MaranoFan, or anyone else, does something harmful, I will do my best to correct it and, if necessary, report it. However, it is not your place to tell me who can and who cannot edit what. The process of improving an article is collaborative. I am willing to work with whomever is willing to get involved in the process, including you, so as to improve the article. Evidently, the article does need help. Maybe BlueMoonset, whose contributions have been essential to this entire process, can provide that. But if he doesn't want to, I don't blame him. Display name 99 (talk) 17:42, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I didn't tell you to not say who can and cannot edit the article, I said, "Please use better judgement and look into things before making pronouncements". I'm asking you to be a little smarter about your surroundings. Because of all this, I think, at this point, it's wise for BlueMoonset to step in and hopefully mentor you through this process and possibly take the reins for a bit -- if he's willing to do so. From what I can tell based on your most recent comments, you don't seem to have a good handle on policy in general or in regard to reviewing for GA. The category MF placed there is problematic, especially since it's in GA review. If you don't realize that, you've proven my point about your inadequacies as a GA reviewer. What's more, you seem to now have contempt for me - as evidenced by this: "as is anyone else who is not blocked" - as well as a low opinion of me because of that comment. Based on that, Display name 99, I'm not sure I trust you to give a fair GA review and leave personalities aside (unless, of course, you have a good explanation for saying something that looks very much like a non-AGF dig aimed at my surrent editing status). Last thing: please, don't ping someone to my talk page who has been told to stay away from my user space because of their history of vandalizing both my talk page and user page as well as harassing me here through tag-team edit warring/vandalization. -- WV 17:52, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I concur. In my opinion the reviewer of BTK needs to be more experienced. Ches (talk) 19:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
By placing the article on hold, I intended to communicate that, for 7 days, the process was, in some ways, stalled. It was "on hold" until the block expired. I did not intend for it to mean that in 7 days the article will fail. You are right in saying that this would not be fair. In 7 days I plan to remove the "on hold" template and replace it with "on review," unless of course, someone talks me into failing it before then. Display name 99 (talk) 19:29, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
"unless of course, someone talks me into failing it before then." What the...? You're the main reviewer at an article nominated for GA, which is a position of some power, and: (1) You're threatening the nominator by saying you would allow someone to talk you into failing the article for GA?; (2) You would allow someone to convince you to fail the article, not by following policy and because it isn't eligible to be nominated and considered, but just because they've convinced you to fail it? Is that what you've just said? Please clarify, because that's what it looks like you just said.
BlueMoonset, your intervention, wisdom, and guidance is desperately needed. -- WV 19:43, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I was not trying to intimidate you, however the presence of edit-warring is grounds for an immediate failure. It is unfortunate that things have deteriorated to this point. Based on your reaction to the comments that I posted on the GA talk page, it appears as though you believe that you are in no way at fault. That is not true. Now, things have gotten so bad that we aren't even talking about the article. Let's try to turn that around. I have presented Chesnaught555 with the option of revising the popular culture references section, which it appears you did not quite get to before you were blocked. Maybe work can be begun on that. Display name 99 (talk) 19:56, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
(1) Please, in the future, indent your comments appropriately when responding to others. (2) This comment, "it appears as though you believe that you are in no way at fault" is inappropriate and totally off the mark. It's also a perfect example of what I mean by "please be aware of your surroundings". Have you taken the time to look at the comments and discussion here on this talk page surrounding the edit warring at the article the subsequent block? Any of it at all? Because, if you had, you would not be making such an accusation, DN99. Which takes me back to what I already said to you: don't make snap judgments and and make pronouncements before you know the whole story. Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, I'm not trying to be disagreeable or make the review harder for you. I do have serious doubts about your ability to give this review a fair shot, a knowledgeable and neutral review -- and all just from what you've said here today. Even if it fails (for valid reasons), I'd feel better about it happening via someone with more experience and a neutral approach. Which, at this point, seems to be lacking with you. I don't think you're a bad person or a bad editor, I just don't think you have the experience or good judgement skills needed for a task such as GA reviewing. BlueMoonset does. Would you consider letting him handle things from here on out (if that's allowed via GA policy)? -- WV 20:14, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I believe that it is permitted. It is not out of the question. However, let us examine your reaction here. I attempted to diffuse the situation by mentioning Chesnaught555's proposal to make some of the changes that you were going to make himself. However, you ignored that, and went right back to the old arguments. This is what I meant by saying "unless, of course, someone talks me into failing it before then." Anyway, I think I'm done with this for today. I'll check back later to see if BlueMoonset says anything. Other than that, don't expect to hear from me. Display name 99 (talk) 20:23, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict)"However, you ignored that" No, I didn't ignore it, Display name 99. Obviously so, in fact, because I stated above that I'm fine with him taking over at this point and until I am no longer blocked. I'm not sure why you think I ignored the suggestion. Also, please note that I have (once again) had indent for you. -- WV 20:31, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I'll carry on tomorrow. Not in the best frame of mind to deal with it at the moment, my apologies. Have already started by adding a reference for a book. Ches (talk) 20:29, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Some light reading material ...[edit]

... while you wait.

<SMILING> Thanks, Ched. -- WV 04:54, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Just in case you didn't notice already - take a look at who created it. Then you might LOL. (I really do hope that you, Richie, and Floq can work this out soon) — Ched :  ?  05:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
"I really do hope that you, Richie, and Floq can work this out soon" Thanks for that -- yes, I hope the same. And I did LOL. -- WV 05:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
  • If you ever want to talk - feel free to post, ping, or email me. I might not have the right answers, but I'm a good listener. :) — Ched :  ?  21:58, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
I sincerely thank you for the offer, Ched, and will likely take you up on it in the future. Thanks,-- WV 02:59, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Is this canvassing?[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jillyjo has posted on Legacypac and MaranoFan's talk pages in regards to what happened last night: SarahSV warning her to stop harassing you, and you thanking her apparently being "harassment". I've spoken to Jilly on her talk page, who still thinks that warning you twice (harassment in itself) was perfectly acceptable. I'm certain that this constitutes canvassing, as she's fully aware that you don't want any interaction from LP or MF, and what happened with Legacypac was a completely different and irrelevant matter to the BTK GA review. Prior to letting LP know, she had given him a barnstar for the vague reason of being "resilient". --Ches (talk) 10:36, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

No Ches it s not canvassing, I contacted some editors I know to give me their opinion on a matter on my talk page. You might want to read over WP:CANVASS. Have a wonderful night! Jilllyjo (talk) 10:39, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
I didn't ask for your input. And it is late morning over here. --Ches (talk) 10:42, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
but you were lucky I gave you the answer that you were wrong. Have a good day then, I forgot you were across the pond. Cheeerio to you! Jilllyjo (talk) 10:49, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Jilllyjo, you deliberately notified several editors whom WV doesn't want any interaction from. It's Wikihounding, and you tried to do it to me by telling Maunus what I said. He even deleted your childish discussion from his TP. You are acting like a primary schooler telling on another student. Stop it. --Ches (talk) 14:02, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
I don't think continuing an argument on this talk page is helping the situation at all. The aim is to deescalate conflict not stir things/drama up. Liz Read! Talk! 14:22, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Ches, thanks for caring so much. No, it's not truly canvassing (if there was a noticeboard filing and JJ was doing all this in response to such, then it would be). It is disruptive, childish, and stupid behavior, though. Can't say I haven't behaved in a similar manner at one time, but certainly not when I had caused the problem myself. At least Maunus had the foresight to finally call out the obvious: JJ is not a new account and it's going to be an issue if there isn't some forthcoming honesty about it. My advice is to not communicate with JJ about this any further, sit back, get some popcorn, and see how the whole thing unfolds. JJ is doing enough to make this a bonafide drama, no need to stir it up more, as Liz pointed out. I appreciate you wanting to do what you believe is the right thing - you have a good heart. The way this is going, though, I see WP:ROPE in the future of our red link editor :-) Thanks, -- WV 14:38, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Winkelvi. My apologies if I seemed to be stirring things up. No popcorn around so a packet of crisps will do the trick I guess :) --Ches (talk) 14:46, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Speaking of WP:ROPE, this particular stunt was strange but not surprising: [7]. And thanks to Liz for stopping by and attempting to diffuse. -- WV 14:54, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Not surprising at all... funny how you predicted that would happen. --Ches (talk) 15:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) My god. That "stunt" as you call it appears to be a user attempting to revert a vandal and accidentally reverting the anti-vandal bot instead (notice how the vandal bot and Jillyjo's edits both occur at the same minute). Stop trying to assume bad faith here! only (talk) 15:10, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
"My god", sorry, I misread it (I guess). Apparently, you've never done anything similar? No need to have a stroke over it, though, right as there seems to enough bad faith assumptions happening at the moment to go around. "My god", indeed. -- WV 15:17, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
This is the problem: you want to read bath faith into your "enemies." Stop doing that. Stop calling this user a "red link editor" as if there's something wrong with not having a user page. Do you want people to refer to you in conversation as "the Aspergers user"? Probably not. I'm not going to sit idly by and watch you attack and attack another user like you've done with so many before. only (talk) 15:22, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
You know, I've come to realize with this and other times you've popped your head up concerning me, only, when you get it wrong, you really get it wrong. This instance is no exception. -- WV 15:28, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Only, I have AS too, watch what you're saying please. That could easily be interpreted as an NPA violation. --Ches (talk) 15:24, 13 February 2016 (UTC)


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chesnaught555, it wasn't a personal attack. It was an example to illustrate a legitimate point. By the way, I have borderline AS. Display name 99 (talk) 03:12, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

The discussion is closed, Display name 99, so I have moved your comment outside the blue box that indicates a closed discussion. Hopefully no one else will comment further. I'd really like the matter to be done, okay? -- WV 03:27, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
Thanks also for being a kind and helpful editor. That cannot go by unnoticed! :-) Ches (talk) 15:53, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Ches. -- WV 16:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

No problem. --Ches (talk) 16:07, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Billy the Kid[edit]

The article Billy the Kid you nominated as a good article has failed Symbol oppose vote.svg; see Talk:Billy the Kid for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Display name 99 -- Display name 99 (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Have responded to this at the GA Review page, found here. -- WV 18:43, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
That notice gets sent automatically, so there's no use replying to it. Display name 99 (talk) 21:26, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, Display name 99, I'm quite aware it was sent automatically -- the fact that it was sent by a bot was not only indicated in this page's history, but it also says so above. Noting here that I responded was my specific choice for a specific reason. And yes, I can respond to it, and did, as you know -- but I didn't reply, because you can't reply to a bot (something I also knew at the time, hence the reasoning for my above comment, "...responded..."). -- WV 21:36, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Wordseventeen[edit]

You could add user:Zpeopleheart to the checkuser. I was sure that W and Z were the same person but checkuser said they were not. However it might be that one or other of the ones you have listed are socks of Z rather than W. (Z was blocked at the same time time and for the same reason as W.) I would think it highly likely that Z and/or W is editing now under a new name. They are leaving Allie X alone, wisely. Oculi (talk) 14:26, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Interesting, Oculi. When that whole debacle at Allie X and AN/I was happening late last year, I had also wondered if they were the same editors. I'm not going to add Z at this time, but am pinging Bbb23 to make him aware and give his thoughts on whether we should add Z. Thanks for the heads up. -- WV 14:36, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
I will observe the checkuser with interest. (W had edited Z's page, Z had edited W's page, just as if Z had forgotten he was not W. It seems amazing that they are not related.) Oculi (talk) 00:50, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Results published. DatGuy wasn't involved but the other two were confirmed. Best, --Ches (talk) 13:37, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Good. I still think there is something fishy about Zpeopleheart. It is a pity that checkuser did not test Z against DatGuy (who started on the day W=Z was taken to ANI). Oculi (talk) 14:18, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Oculi, I completely agree. Beginning to wonder if that is the case now. If any more evidence can be found then one of us can file the next SPI. Best, --Ches (talk) 14:32, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
I have an idea for more evidence. I will follow it up. Oculi (talk) 15:23, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Oculi, sounds good to me. Thanks. --Ches (talk) 15:29, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Just a little while ago, I was beginning to question DG's involvement in this; following his comment at the SPI, in which he accused WV and I of assuming bad faith, I apologised to him on his talk page (due to the fact that he wasn't a sockpuppet of Jilllyjo). He has accepted my apology, but if Oculi thinks that the evidence is strong enough, they can file the SPI if they wish to do so. --Ches (talk) 16:21, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
I've had a look at their editing patterns. W, Z and J don't appear to sleep: they edit throughout the 24 hrs. D has a different pattern and has never edited between 0:00 and 6:00. It seems likely that more socks of W or Z will pop up. Anyway, I might consider a 2nd attempt to link S W and Z. Oculi (talk) 19:32, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Is it really a good idea..?[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Do you really think it is necessary or wise to try and revert, strike, or otherwise remove every edit by Jilllyjo? It seems gratuitous at best, and WP:POINTy at worst when editors in good standing (i.e., me) have asked you to cut it out. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 01:17, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

G5 exists for a reason. The sock's comments are still there, just struck. If anyone wants to read them and take them seriously, they still can. I'm also an editor in good standing, and with a considerable amount of experience with filing SPIs and deleting edits and comments per G5 and WP:DENY. Based on that, I can say that this has nothing to do with being pointy. Unless you want to consider telling a blocked or indeffed editor to not waste their time socking because any edits they make while socking will be deleted, as if they had never returned, to be making a point. Then yes, I guess there is a point being made when G5 is exercised in a case such as this. -- WV 01:24, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Fine, do what you want. But I will revert you when you remove non-disruptive edits to things on my watchlist. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 01:28, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Great. Another defender of disruption. Surely, something to be proud of. Give yourself a barnstar for it. And super interesting how you claim Malcolm X is on your watch list when you've never edited the article or (as far as I can see) have edited the talk page. -- WV 01:31, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA review of "All I Ask"[edit]

Can I ask why you chose to review the GA nomination for "All I Ask"? It had only been nominated for 18 hours. About half of the Song Good Article nominations waiting to be reviewed were nominated in 2015, some for 7 or 8 months; it would have been more beneficial to review one of these. MaranoFan has canvassed someone else, I do hope that you wasn't a victim of canvassing done in a more discreet and less public manner.  — Calvin999 21:23, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

It's a type of article I'm fairly well familiar with, it's small, not complex, and I felt it could likely be done in a relative short amount of time. MF did not canvass me. Are you concerned about my involvement or is there something else you are worried about? -- WV 21:27, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
I was just worried that you'd been canvassed, as you wouldn't have been the only one. I thought this also because the review was taken up extremely quickly after nomination. But if you chose to review it of your own accord, then that is all. I do, however, have many concerns about the article, and I have left these on your review in the general discussion. I hope you don't mind my input.  — Calvin999 21:40, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Not at all. It's helpful for any working decisions during the review as well as the final decision to pass or fail. -- WV 21:54, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
@Winkelvi: Can you go through the article again, I think I sorted out the quote farms.--MaranoFan (talk) 08:40, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
Ah so you've actually read what I said and acted on it have you? I take it your thanks will make it's way to me at some point.  — Calvin999 08:58, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Surreal Barnstar Hires.png The Surreal Barnstar
Can I just say that even after the mess that is that review page, and given our history, you are still giving the article a fair review. I really hope this is a turning point in our wiki relationshipp. Thanks so much. MaranoFan (talk) 09:23, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

The AIA GA[edit]

When can I expect the next batch of comments, I feel like all the ones already there have been addressed. And before that intruder stalks me here again, (this is a polite enquiry). I am not asking you to rush it up but rather just asking a ballpark so I can respond in a Timely manner. It would be good if it could conclude before 1st March, when my final exams will start. Thanks, MaranoFan (talk) 14:36, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Below is a separate post regarding a different matter, posted by an IP.[edit]

This concerns my attempt to edit the entry for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan within the past 24 hours. "Original research or novel synthesis" was not required here, nor did I resort to either one.

There were two different edits that I wanted to make. One was to add the fact that the original release prints (contrary to the posters and advertising at the time) did not use the "II" in the title. This is simply an added fact and doesn't contravene anything already in the entry. In 1990 I wrote to Leonard Maltin about this and other entries in his annual paperback movie guide, and in all subsequent editions the following sentence was added: "Originally released without the 'II' in its title." If you want me to claim that as a source, I will!

In any case, it's simply a fact. I thought it would be of use because it ties into my other point (see below) and also because there are people who never saw the original release and believe the "II" was always part of the title, just as there are people who mistakenly think Star Wars was always called "Episode IV: A New Hope" during its original release.

As for my other point: Your reply made it seem as though there were preexisting evidence that The Wrath of Khan was in fact a sequel to Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and that such evidence stood behind every mention of TWOK as a sequel to TMP in the entry. But there's no reason to presume that there was any such intent. If anything, a "novel synthesis" would be required to construe that TWOK was a sequel to TMP rather than that it wasn't.

Consider: Paramount could have implicitly called the movie a sequel by consistently using "II" but did not do so. Not only was the "II" missing from the original prints, it was also missing from the pre-release advertising (of which images can be found online, in particular a 4-page color insert from a Time Inc. magazine that I myself saw in May 1982) and was missing from the cover of the novelization by Vonda McIntyre. Adding it was a late decision.

Moreover, no one at Paramount wanted to repeat the difficulties of making TMP, which are well documented. As already noted in the entry, Gene Roddenberry was given an "executive consultant" credit and new producers and writers were brought in. Production was moved to Paramount's television division.

The most important point is that there is no story continuity of any sort between TMP and TWOK. This was deliberate, and is true even though a few effects and spaceship models were reused from TMP for cost savings. As already noted in the entry, James Horner's music refers not at all to Jerry Goldsmith's score for TMP. Other areas of deliberate discontinuity between the films include the radical change in uniforms, differences in set decoration, the fact that at the start of each movie Admiral Kirk is stuck in a desk job and is itching to get back on the Enterprise, etc.

It is, of course, true that in the intervening years, books such as the Star Trek Chronology of the early 1990s have attempted to fit both movies (and the various TV series and later movies) into a date-based continuity. But there are inherent difficulties in doing so, which have been argued about on discussion boards ever since. One can as easily - in my opinion, more easily - make the case that TWOK deliberately ignores everything about TMP and starts fresh, by making a sequel not to TMP but to the episode "Space Seed," which not only was produced 15 years earlier but concerns events 15 years before those of TWOK.

So for me it boils down to "Why should I have to provide evidence that it's not a sequel, when there's no evidence that it ever was a sequel?"

I would appreciate a reasoned reply - thanks in advance.71.191.51.87 (talk) 19:22, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) 71.191.51.187 - as far as I am aware, WV is on a break, so I'll respond to this on his behalf. I can answer your question instantly: you violated Wikipedia's policy on original research, and to any other reader who isn't directly a fan of Star Trek (i.e. not you, nor I) the idea that ST II is not a sequel is unclear. It therefore needs backing up by a reliable source. Thanks, --Ches (talk) 19:09, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
Sometimes I just ignore posts, which is anyone's right, Ches, and sometimes a smart thing to do. Besides, I'm not on a break, I'm just very busy and not editing much at the moment. You know, that "real life" thing that gets in the way. -- WV 19:14, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
I think I took your recent comment on my talk page a little too literally. Sorry about that, I wasn't aware that you were ignoring it. I completely understand - that "real life thing" happens to most of us, right? :-) --Ches (talk) 19:16, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Warren Jeffs[edit]

Hi. I've just noticed that you reverted an edit of mine on Warren Jeffs while I was preparing a subsequent edit. Your change got lost in that update. You ask in your edit summary "Why was this removed? the category is accurate and appropriate?". I think my edit summary "in a subcategory" was quite clear enough so I am not going to restore. We do not normally put articles in a parent category as well as a subcategory. --Mirokado (talk) 23:18, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Your edit summary actually wasn't clear as it was without true context. If I had known it was already in a sub, I wouldn't have reverted. I will revert my revert now. -- WV 23:31, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

You are earnest, and I like that![edit]

I came to this user/talk page because your signature was pretty. I read some of your user page and talk page and, while it seems like you have a lot that you are working through and learning, you are very earnest and you care.

I like the person I see in your user page and in your responses to admins, even in the points that I would handle differently. I can see your good faith.

I know exhaustion and frustration can escalate situations to problems to battles. Sometimes we need to rest to have our sense restored to us; but sometimes, a person's heart simply wants to have the good parts seen. I don't know if that's true for you or for the other people on the opposite side of the situations mentioned on this talk page. And sometimes, people will even take good faith the wrong way. :)

I'm being vague and philosophical because I don't want to dump more advice on you. You have enough to digest at the moment. (About that one list you said helped you to understand some things: I wonder if the bullet-points format helped you process those points separate from the surrounding situations, and if also it helped the admin elevate those observations from by being muddied by those situations. Just a thought.)

Also, I am constantly ill in a way that doesn't allow me to reliably follow-up, so I have to do data dumps like this when I can, while I can.

If any of this is helpful, then I'm happy! If nothing else, know that a stranger to any of your WP activity—except your pretty signature—took a look at the you beyond the patterns others were pointing out, and liked what she saw. And, uh, sorry if this was too sappy. :) — Geekdiva (talk) 21:51, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Delete this.[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Feel free to delete this with any bullshit summary you like. I do not want you discussing me, not here, not there, not anywhere. I do my best to avoid you on here, and if you cant do the same, we have a problem. I have mood swings, which causes me to "retire" or "take wikibreaks", nothing to make fun of, it is a condition. I am a 20-year-old girl, why do you call me "he" and "teen"? I am asking you to stop all this. And-the following- is a note to anyone who Winkelvi tries to show this as a receipt to, I do not hate this editor. He continuously goes on harassing me and recruiting allies for a [[WP:WAR] against me. Guess what, I don't want one. But one thing is clear, you are obsessed with me, and probably so much, that you can't give it up now. But try to, please. It is not okay to make someone's whole wiki experience a hell, why don't you focus on the GA nom of Billy the Kid? I thought you were finally starting to do some constructive work, But ALAS I was wrong! So maybe you can separate yourself from me now. PLEASE DO!--MaranoFan (talk) 09:51, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) MaranoFan, please stop trying to escalate the situation between you and Winkelvi. Stop editing his user page, and his talk page, for that matter. It's obvious that you are attempting to provoke a response. Simple request, capisce? --Ches (talk) (contribs) 14:16, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
MaranoFan, I have to agree with what Chesnaught555 says above and disagree with part of what you say above. You are not doing your best to avoid Winkelvi. You edit here and you edit their userpage, that is not avoiding Winkelvi. Take this page off your watchlist (if it is on there) and walk away. If Winkelvi mentions you somewhere don't respond.
Winkelvi, stop talking about MaranoFan, here or anywhere. Do your best to avoid her.
There isn't any reason the two of you need to interact or talk about each other. -- GB fan 15:34, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
If there is a need for me to mention MF, I will. No need? Then the obvious will occur. Given MFs propensity to attempt provocation, harass me in my user space, and poke me elsewhere in Wikipedia, I fully expect the need to arise. -- WV 16:07, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A cookie for you![edit]

Choco chip cookie.png Here's a cookie :)  — Calvin999 10:23, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Calvin999. I just ran out of the Girl Scout cookies recently purchased so, perfect timing! -- WV 12:15, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heidi Cruz[edit]

I understand and share your concerns, but try to ease back on calling out every new SPA and whatnot. Focus on the argument, if need be. The closing admin will sort it out. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:46, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Will do. -- WV 18:57, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Haven't looked since I posted, but this is probably going to be kept--that's the nature of the beast, with us following the news cycle. Drmies (talk) 23:51, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Indeed. It stuns me that no one seems to care about or understand what the GNG policy really means anymore and completely ignore WP:NOTNEWS. We're quickly becoming People Magazine in the area of BLPs, in my opinion. Hope you are well, Drmies - always nice to hear from you. -- WV 14:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Likewise, Winkelvi. I just saw a supposed Cruz sex scandal go by on Facebook, and earth-shattering documents pertaining to Heidi Cruz, so we might see yet more of this. Drmies (talk) 14:37, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Can we please time travel back about 40 years? I love politics and election season, but I'm thinking even the Watergate era is preferable to what we are going through as a nation now. Ugh. Already sick of it all and we still have eight months more to endure. -- WV 14:43, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Ha, no, I'd rather not--40 years ago American was an awful place to live if you weren't a WASP, haha. Hey, I closed the AfD: it was not going to go in any other direction but keep, but I thank you for your efforts. Drmies (talk) 14:48, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Windmills aren't easy to tip over, but I do keep trying. :-) -- WV 14:51, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Unbelievable it was speedily deleted. I disavow myself of this action and register strong disagreement with. --Wikipietime (talk) 13:49, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

The Heidi Cruz article wasn't deleted.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:03, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Removed contribution to User Talk page of Heidi Cruz[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I see you have performed some serious editing on the talk pages of Heidi Cruz, the spilled beans section. I would like to see what you in particular removed but am not able to because the ability to do so has been disabled via the "curr/prev" feature of the history. I am guessing that you are a super editor of sorts and that this was intentional; am I correct in this? How might I see the results of your edit? The article topic is rapidly evolving in the media and the contributions I make are focused on improving the article. Looking forward to a reply. Thanks--Wikipietime (talk) 13:18, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Wikipietime: Your defamatory and potentially libelous comments were originally removed by me because they were a violation of BLP policy. They were such an egregious violation of policy that they were sent into oblivion by an administrator, never to be seen again. You were warned not only by myself on you talk page, but also by administrator. Hopefully, with this response, you are no longer confused by what transpired and why -- WV 14:45, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Could you address what you in particular removed but am not able to see because the ability to do so has been disabled via the "curr/prev" feature of the history. As far as "defamatory and potentially libelous comments"; in part, why I would like to see what is being referred to--Wikipietime (talk) 16:34, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Sorry. Don't remember exactly what you wrote to provide an accurate quotation. I will say, however, that your scurrying to the talk pages of other editors and claiming political censorship needs to stop as it's disruptive. -- WV 16:45, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Archived from article talk page as an unhidden record[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following is taken from the talk page of the Heidi Cruz article and placed here as a reminder of discussion before it is archived and forgotten -- there are some good points made, hence it being copied and placed here in my userspace
I have improved upon the infobox photo currently in the article, cropped it, and retouched it to be less blurry. When I included it in the infobox, I reduced the size so that the poor quality is less noticeable. It has since been removed and replaced with the photo of Cruz and her husband. An infobox photo should show the article subject alone, not with others, to give the right first look to the reader. While I realize that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is typically not the best argument, I think in the case of infobox photos (individual portraits, really), the example we have of other biographies and BLPs - infobox photos of article subjects alone - is best considered in this case. Here are the two article versions - one with the current photo, the other with the photo I cropped and corrected: larger photo of Cruz and husband, smaller, cropped and corrected photo of just Cruz. -- WV 21:45, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

WV's cropped version of the picture I took is just as blurry and horrendous as the one that User:Informant16 created. You can review User:Informant16's horrendous picture here: Informant16's crop of Heidi Cruz picture. I can't see any difference between Winkelvi's crop and Informant16's crop. Also, there is no hard and fast rule that the picture be on just one person. That is the Winkelvi's opinion which is trying to pass off as rule of law. It isn't.--ML (talk) 03:40, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Here's the deal: two if us have attempted to fix your crappy picture offering and make it infobox friendly and less crappy. If there's going to only be opposition to attempts to fix this infobox inappropriate photo, then I say there should be no photo until we can get one that is appropriate. There is no requirement that infoboxes contain photographs, therefore, not having one until we get a good one is the best option. -- WV 04:14, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Extended content
  • I don't like either one of the cropped versions since they're so obviously cropped, and (like the lamppost at Kent State) that microphone is awkwardly coming out of nowhere. Given that much of her notability, if not all of it, derives from her being the wife of, having an image with both in there seems appropriate to me. Y'all, let's try to have these conversations in a more friendly way and not descend to the level of discourse used by our subjects. Drmies (talk) 13:48, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Disagree. If she is notable on her own, as several editors argued at the recent AfD for this article, then the article entire should reflect that, including the first thing readers see when coming to the article. We write biographies in a certain manner to reflect who the article is about by putting less emphasis on the well-known spouse, child, or other relative of the article subject. There's no reason why this kind of standard isn't also applicable to the infobox photo. People are very visual. The current infobox photo gives an immediate visual impression that is the antithesis of individual notability. -- WV 15:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Well, if we disagree, it must be because you are of the wrong political or religious persuasion. What else could it be? You're clearly a Trump/Clinton/Bill Clinton/Cruz/Mrs. Cruz/Ben Carson operative. Drmies (talk) 15:57, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
I don't think we ALL disagree. The picture with the two of them is appropriate for the reasons that you stated. We will use it until someone takes a picture of her completely by herself which we can swap out latter.--ML (talk) 16:00, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Dammit, Drmies. You figured me out. I am an operative for all of them. My cover is finally blown. Time to COI tag myself. -- WV 17:12, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Are there not any better photographs which we can use under fair usage policy? I don't personally see any issue with the cropped photograph, but I feel as if the only way this can be solved is by looking for another one of better quality... --Ches (talk) (contribs) 16:22, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
There is nothing in Commons, there is nothing available in the free and fair use realm at Flickr. Of photos at Flickr that have her in them, there are very, very few. Which, in my estimation and in light of the fact that we live in a very photo-centric 21st century, takes Heidi Cruz back to the non-notable category making her ineligible for a BLP article on her alone, but that's me. -- WV 16:19, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
But, just to be clear for other readers of this discussion, Winkelvi is flat out wrong about Heidi Cruz's notability. There was a recent discussion on this and Winkelvi's own personal opinion was clearly defeated in the voting. Also, the fact that there are no Heidi Cruz pictures available in public use at Flickr does not change that determination.--ML (talk) 16:25, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Gawd. Don't get your knickers in a bunch over my comment about notability. It is my opinion, I'm free to express it, and I'm certain I'm not the only one who feels that way. You have no reason to worry that the Heidi Cruz article is going to be taken to AfD again anytime soon. And even if it did, it's obvious too many Wikipedia editors today have no clue what Wikipedia notability guidelines really mean nor what's truly encyclopedic any more. In the meantime, however, please stop attempting to poison the well against me or trying to censor my comments and thoughts on this or any issue in Wikipedia. You are free to not like what I have to say, but as long as what I'm saying doesn't violate any policies or guidelines, you are not free to bully or disparage me into silence. -- WV 16:40, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Just making sure that no one confuses your incorrect opinion with actual facts and I can say that no matter what you think. I did not bully you. That is a false statement. Just because I respond to your comments is not bullying so drop it because it is not true.--ML (talk) 17:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Just making sure no one confuses your claims of innocence with the facts both now and in the past: even when brought previously to ANI as well as when receiving notifications on your talk page about your penchant for using personal attacks, you have denied every time that anything you have said is a personal attack or bullying. Anyone reading this can take from that what they will. -- WV 18:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

I have never been to ANI and I don't know what you are talking about. But if you express your opinion and it is contrary to what the consensus is then I am going to point it out and pointing out with when you opinion is contrary to consensus is not bullying and there is nothing you can say or do to make it bullying.--ML (talk) 18:36, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Yes, you have been to AN/I (as well as AN/3). More than once. And, as I already pointed out, you took no responsibility for your actions nor did you admit your actions were inappropriate. Just like you are doing now. If, however, you continue to violate policy regarding behavior toward other editors, I will continue to call it out. Don't like it? You have two choices: stop the unwanted, policy-violating behavior or take your complaint about me calling you out to AN/I. Keep in mind that if you choose the latter, your behavior will then also be up for review and further comments from other editors. -- WV 20:11, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
I am going to repeat myself again. I have never been to ANI. That is just not true. Stop making that false accusation. Also, when you make a comment like you did here stating that Heidi Cruz is not notable and there has just been a AfD pointing out clearly that she is notable then I am going to comment on that and I am going to point out that your comment is simply not true. Also, just because you don't like what I have to say does not mean that I am doing anything wrong because I am not. I will not back down from pointing out that Heidi Cruz is notable. You don't like it? Too bad.--ML (talk) 20:34, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
You are free to repeat an untruth, but that doesn't make the truth disappear: 1, 2. You have also had countless warnings and notices placed on your talk page regarding your penchant for personally attacking other editors. I don't like your demeanor, how you behave toward other editors, and your battleground mentality. As long as you continue to personally attack others and use Wikipedia as a battleground, I will continue to point such behavior out. -- WV 20:53, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
The truth is that both of the links you provide point to the same complaints that you made about before and your complaint lead to absolutely NOTHING because that is what you have: NOTHING. I have never done anything wrong and I will never stop saying what I want to say. I have not personally attacked you and that is a falsehood. I don't care what you think of my demeanor. I am not bullying you. I am standing up to you and repeated threats and it is clear that you don't like that, but I am not going to stop. If you state that Heidi Cruz is not notable just because you incorrectly believe her to be then I am going to point that out and no matter how many times you repeat yourself and threaten to take me to ANI am I going to change anything I do. Your comments are useless. I will continue to point when you are wrong--whether you like it or not.--Winkelvi (talk) 21:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Fixed that error, and your second ANI report has been included above. Here's some food for thought: you can continue pointing out what you believe is an error in my judgement. There's no policy against that, nor is there policy against being wrong. There is, however, policy against personally attacking editors. You engage in it all too frequently. And with a vengeance. It needs to stop. -- WV 21:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Extended content

I suppose it should stop, I don't see why the discussion and evidence needs to be hidden upon first glance. -- WV 21:47, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Winkelvi - shame about the lack of photographs. I will say I concur, if there are no photographs available of her on her own it really does bring her notability into question... --Ches (talk) (contribs) 17:01, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of people and its subcategories have over ten thousand people we have articles for but not a photograph. Most of them are notable in some way. Jonathunder (talk) 17:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Yes, the lack of photographs does not prove anything.--ML (talk) 17:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:ANI[edit]

Discusiion regarding you.--MaranoFan (talk) 13:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

One question, If I am truly as bad as you are describing, why are you so opposed to a two_sided IBAN?--MaranoFan (talk) 14:27, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
One question, is it too much to ask for you to leave him alone? You want an IBAN, am I correct? --Ches (talk) (contribs) 14:29, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Ches, NE Ent closed the ANI humorously and appropriately (for the ridiculousness of it and the date, too). IBan, shmyban. :-) -- WV 23:54, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
Haha, good one! Glad to hear it didn't go forward, you didn't deserve it. :-) --Ches (talk) (contribs) 09:01, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Looks like it's been re-opened though... --Ches (talk) (contribs) 09:36, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes. Some editors chronically and slavishly forget that we are all "working" for free, this isn't employment, it's just the Internet, nothing here really matters in the long run, and none of us are as important to Wikipedia as we might perceive ourselves to be. In other words, if we left this place tomorrow, who would really notice? There are thousands more out there to take our place. This is a great tongue-in-cheek reminder:
-- WV 13:54, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Agreed, haha. Some editors here really do have a inferiority complex and feel the need to attempt to exercise authority when they are not administrators. Good old ANI, the plural of "anus" is the perfect place for people like that. Sometimes, people like that just need to take a step back and realise Wikipedia is not Keeping Up With the Kardashians. It is not about them. --Ches (talk) (contribs) 17:58, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping[edit]

Thanks for the ping but I'll respectfully choose to keep the comments to other places including Commons. For now, hopefully WP:Defendeachother will take place and I can cease responding to the endless badgering attacks by the tag-team. Thank you, — Cirt (talk) 16:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, Cirt. I would love for others to jump in, but my past experience tells me editors are more likely to jump in for piling on than to help defend other editors from attacks. -- WV 16:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Well then I'm not sure what more can be done at this point in time regarding the ad hominem and extraneous commentary. — Cirt (talk) 16:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

IP Block Information[edit]

Sorry, I came back from school for the question I don't respond at ANI. So, I'll give you information where I was blocked. The IP address is 73.133.183.36(probably Comcast or Verizon), with my very first edit. The block was issued at 5:18 on March 5, 2016, Blocking admin was Bbb23; blocked for incompetence, trolling, and vandalism for a period for a week, ending on March 12, 2016. But, try my talk page so, I can respond to my talk page here.KGirlTrucker87 (talk) 21:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

That IP address has never been blocked and has no contributions/edits whatsoever. -- WV 00:09, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
I'm currently on a wikibreak, and will be back on Wikipedia on April 16 because my parents grounded me for week for doing the wrong thing.KGirlTrucker87 (talk) 10:50, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Rollbacking my ANI close[edit]

[8] presume this was an error? Spartaz Humbug! 08:09, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it certainly was. In fact, when the pop up box came up asking if I truly wanted to perform the rollback, I chose 'cancel', so I have no idea why it still performed the rollback. My apologies for any confusion, but definitely a combination accidental mouse click and technical glitch, Spartaz. -- WV 12:21, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
No worries, it kept happening to me as well, which is why I assumed it was an error. I now have a script that removes rollback as an option from my phone/tablet. Too many fat finger errors! Spartaz Humbug! 15:17, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 11[edit]

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Fort Casey[edit]

Thanks for the response I finally figured out the problem and have fixed the External Link that made it appear Fort Casey might not be a state park after all. (I always thought it was, but the State Parks website was not cooperating with the notion.) It wasn't as easy to find as you made it sound, but yet, it was there and only required a little URL tweak to make it all work. --Haruo (talk) 13:38, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

I didn't use the external link, I did an Internet search to get the answers. Nonetheless, glad you figured out the problem. -- WV 13:57, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

DRN help needed and volunteer roll call[edit]

You are receiving this message because you have listed yourself on the list of volunteers at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Volunteering#List of the DRN volunteers.

First, assistance is needed at DRN. We have recently closed a number of cases without any services being provided for lack of a volunteer willing to take the case. There are at least three cases awaiting a volunteer at this moment. Please consider taking one.

Second, this is a volunteer roll call. If you remain interested in helping at DRN and are willing to actively do so by taking at least one case (and seeing it through) or helping with administrative matters at least once per calendar month, please add your name to this roll call list. Individuals currently on the principal volunteer list who do not add their name on the roll call list will be removed from the principal volunteer list after June 30, 2016 unless the DRN Coordinator chooses to retain their name for the best interest of DRN or the encyclopedia. Individuals whose names are removed after June 30, 2016, should feel free to re-add their names to the principal volunteer list, but are respectfully requested not to do so unless they are willing to take part at DRN at least one time per month as noted above. No one is going to be monitoring to see if you live up to that commitment, but we respectfully ask that you either live up to it or remove your name from the principal volunteer list.

Best regards, TransporterMan (talk · contribs) (Current DRN coordinator) (Not watching this page) Sent via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:05, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

You've got mail![edit]

Mail-message-new.svg
Hello, Winkelvi. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 15:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

 — Calvin999 15:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

BTK[edit]

I think you forgot to sign your comment on the talk page. Easily done. --Ches (talk) (contribs) 15:48, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

RfC History of South America[edit]

Hi Winkelvi, you may wish to comment. Kind regards -- Marek.69 talk 01:55, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

AFD[edit]

If you think Wikipedia is crazy and needs to change the rules under which articles are permitted, I am willing to help. Until then, I want to follow those crazy rules which allow non-articles to be articles and deletes things that should be articles but don't quite meet the rules. Sex positions, porn stars, high schools, TV episodes, video games, murders are all fair game but accomplished professors have to fight to not be deleted. Whiskeymouth (talk) 05:16, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

The Lyne article should not exist, and I stated the reasons why clearly and according to policy. -- WV 10:38, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Stop now[edit]

What can be really hard to understand about Wikipedia is that there are "rules which are written down fairly clearly" -- and there's usually exceptions, or "ifs, ands, and buts" to those, and lots of unwritten rules, one of which goes something like this. First the most part, no neutral ANI reviewer really cares very much about any individual, in either a positive or negative way, we just care that the work of the encyclopedia can proceed without too much interference. So if you repeatedly end as part of an ANI discussion, regardless of the relative rightness or wrongness of a discussion, eventually folks get tired of it and start sanctioning people, and not in a particularly logical or reasonable way. (There's a great book, Predictably Irrational, that goes into great detail about how non-logical the general population is).

If you enjoy editing Wikipedia and want to continue to articles, I'd appreciate that, as would others. That is going to involve learning very quickly what to ignore. Even worse, given you have a demonstrated history of reacting to provocation, it's going to take some time for that to stop. It's not particularly pleasant or fair, but it's the way it is, and neither I nor you can change that. But what I hope you can choose to do is simply stop reacting. Even though my article to Wikipedia space is 1/4 as good as yours, I'm pretty much left alone because I don't respond to provocation, which totally takes all the fun out of trying to provoke me. (Don't test that, although I won't respond, there are some admin stalkers on my page). And I realize I'm a total outlier in my ability to ignore stuff / focus on what I want to focus on, so my advice is easy to give but likely hard to follow.

Plan A[edit]

So what I'd suggest right now is stating you'll stop posting on ANI except to provide direct answers to any questions an administrator may pose about your behavior, and that you will totally avoid all interaction with MF and anyone else you're getting crossed up with. See User:NE Ent/Unilateral interaction ban (and note I wrote that a long time ago)

Plan B[edit]

If that's not something you're ready to do right now, just agree to take a total voluntary break of one to three months (longer is better). If you look at my edit history [9], you'll some months with hundreds of edits, and some with like 10. I've always found that when I return to greater activity that pretty much nothing important has changed, so it's not like you'll be missing anything by taking a vacation.

Plan C[edit]

If you're unable to anything like either of the above, it's possible to probable you will end getting blocked / banned for some period of time. That's not a threat -- I won't propose or vote on a ban for you -- it's an observation of what I've seen happen to editors on a similar track as the one you're one. It isn't particularly fair, and I think it hurts the project when that happens, but it's the way things are. NE Ent 21:19, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Thank you, NE Ent for taking the time to bring some logic into all this for me. What you've said makes sense and gives me a better picture I can not only visualize but agree with (in varying degrees). Plan A is absolutely possible for me, as it makes sense and is beneficial for all, although, I'm unclear on how/where to perform such a proclamation that would make a difference. Please advise on that, if you don't mind. The other thing that I have been reminded of with all you've written here is what an admin said to me about a year ago: that it looks too much like I argue/fight with others. That is never my intent, however, I'm aware that because of being on the autism spectrum, what I put into text form can come off that way because of my pragmatic/social skills being even more awkward without the benefit of body language, vocal inflection, and facial expression for the reader. Again, thanks for the time you took to write here what you did. It's deeply appreciated. -- WV 21:35, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
You don't have to, I'll do it for you. I should be around for the next few days, at least, if you're tempted to reply to something on ANI you're welcome to use my talk page as a sounding board first. And I totally believe what you're saying about your intent, due to various real-life jobs I've had some education and experience with autism spectrum individuals. NE Ent 21:47, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. (Taking down a few bricks in the wall, now) -- that last comment from you put a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye. Being understood is a hard, grueling, uphill battle for us spectrum folks. When someone (finally!) gets us and is kind on our uphill journey, reaching out a hand, it's appreciated in a very deep way. Thank you. I won't forget any of your assistance and kindness here. -- WV 21:53, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
(talk page stalker). Hi, Winkelvi (with c.c. to NE Ent). I notice you are at the 3RR/N presenting a case on behalf of another editor. It seems to be a fight over a single comma. I got confused enough by the case to lose sight of who wants the comma, who does not, and who is "right". Anyhoo ... what about Plan-A above? It is noble of you to fight the battle for somebody else, but it must be toxic to your cred around here. It appears that NE Ent is AFK, so if you ever want to bounce things off me, please come to my talk page. If we do not mesh, I know other editors that would have your back too. PS: I am the defendant in a 3RR case right above the one you most recently submitted. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:03, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
I don't understand what you mean by, "it must be toxic to your cred around here", Checkingfax. And just to be crystal clear, my report at AN3 had really nothing to do with the comma issue, it had to do with what I stated at AN3: someone who was blatantly violating 3RR by continuing to edit war and disrupting the editing process at that particular article. The blocking admin obviously saw the same thing I did, so, I'm confused as to why you think my report was anything contrary to Plan A above. -- WV 04:13, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Winkelvi. Sorry if I misconstrued Plan-A. I was extrapolating Plan-A to include 3RR/N as well, regardless of the merits of a a 3RR report. I did not go back to 3RR to see how any particular case played out. I do not hang out at AN/I or 3RR. I would like to be part of the support team that NE Ent offered you, and I would be honored for you to be part of my support team too. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:27, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Well, I don't think I read Plan A wrong, and it always read to me that I should stay away from AN/I, which I have done and will continue to do. As far as AN/3, I don't plan to hang out there and today's report was only a last resort thing. The editor reported had been warned not just by me but two other editors and I didn't report him until he had reached 7 or 8RR. Someone had to do something as it was completely out of control and he'd been given plenty of leeway. I welcome you as part of my support team and appreciate the offer to be so. I don't know how much of a help I would be to you as it does seem I now have a poisoned reputation in Wikipedia, however, if you're willing to allow me to be part of your support team, I will happily be there for you. Thanks for the communication. -- WV 04:33, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Winkelvi. I do not check my Watchlist very often, so I missed your reply here until just now. I have not reviewed that 3RR case but if you were sticking up for an edit war between others, that might not be such a good idea going forward. I am glad you are willing to be part of my support team. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 22:09, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I'm not sure what you mean by "sticking up for an edit war". -- WV 22:49, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Edit Warring[edit]

You've been warned many times about this and blocked many times about this. You clearly DO NOT understand the rules here, or crazy "libel" ideas when Reliable Sources that are very public have made statements well in line with Wikipedia's BLP guidelines. I will be asking ANI to enforce the long, long ban you were threatened with a few months ago. I warned you I would take this to the board . . . 68.19.5.162 (talk) 02:46, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

WV, told you were going get poked ... this is the nonsense you're going to have to ignore. NE Ent 03:25, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Indeed. -- WV 03:52, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Request for your input & guidance on Heidi Cruz article[edit]

Winkelvi, I'm attempting to add information to the Heidi Cruz article regarding an incident when she was suffering from depression. The addition has already been reverted once by User:MaverickLittle and I'm trying to avert a WP:EW. Would you please add your thoughts in the section titled, "Personal life: Depression" on the Talk page? If you think that the addition is inappropriate, please signify as such. I'm not taking a "hard stand" on this and I'm open to persuasion that the addition may not be appropriate. I would greatly appreciate your input. Thank you. Jtpaladin (talk) 23:03, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Commented there. -- WV 00:15, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Reporting Sockpuppet Barnstar[edit]

Sock Puppet Star.gif Sockpuppet reporting barnstar
Dear Winkelvi, thank you for reporting me as a sockpuppet. I have waited for months, and am now using my new privileges to make wonderful edits and new articles. Thank you for reporting me, even if I did not understand at the time. I have learned my lesson, not to sock puppet and will never sockpuppet again. Thank you, Cheers! CookieMonster755 📞 04:05, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
Welcome back, CookieMonster755. -- WV 04:16, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 month for long term feuding, causing significant disruption for other editors. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Floquenbeam (talk) 17:59, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

I totally don't understand what's going on. Feuding with whom and significant disruption where? -- WV 18:01, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

  • Note for reviewing admin: part of the whole Winkelvi/MaranoFan/Calvin999/Chesnaught/Legacypac/MaverickLittle feud. MaranoFan and Calvin currently sitting out similar 1 month blocks. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
You have added Maverick Little to this now? When and where was that EVER specified previously? If it was, I was not privy to it and if I had been, I would have totally avoided any contact with Maverick Little because of it. Please provide a diff that indicates anything, anywhere that you specified Maverick Little in your provisions, Floquenbeam. Your comments on this issue - even up to a couple of days ago, were in regard to FOUR editors, NOT five. Here is the link to your own statement regarding the feud just two days ago [10] and here is what you said, "so far the message seems to have been received more clearly by the other people feuding than by these two". That said to me that you were referring to me and Chesnaught555. I recall not one instance where you mentioned Maverick Little as being someone I was to stay away from. I feel I deserve a real explanation to your reasoning here for me to not see this as a knee-jerk reaction on your part. -- WV 18:04, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
You don't get to feud with someone because I never specifically listed them somewhere as someone not to feud with. If you don't understand that, perhaps a month is too short, because we cannot keep indulging you in your near constant battleground behavior with everyone. Your behavior is nearly constantly disruptive. You do it even when warned, except apparently you think as long as the disruption is with some other person it is OK. Every single time you are blocked you say you've seen the light and will change, you never do. IMHO, next block for the same behavior should be indef. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:22, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
To start, I don't see how responding to abuse of a template on my talk page by reminding someone they shouldn't abuse templates is battleground mentality. I'm open to understanding how it is. Next, please show me specifically how I have been battling/feuding with anyone, anywhere in Wikipedia since you warned me, MF, Chesnaught, and Calvin to stay away from each other. I have been taking part in discussion over content disputes, have tried to smooth over some things with other editors, started an RfC to help keep an edit war from continuing, have told a harassing IP I have been putting up with since July 2015 to stop being a coward, and I've stayed away from ANI. I continue - for three months now - to not edit war in any fashion. If any of that is feuding or battling, I'm not seeing it. But, as I said a moment ago, I'm welcome to understanding how it is. As far as this comment from you, "Every single time you are blocked you say you've seen the light and will change, you never do", I'm not seeing that as accurate, either. I've been working on bettering myself as an editor behavior-wise continually for quite some time. Other than the MF/Ches/Calvin/WV incident, which was a wake up call for me. My understanding of battleground behavior is, I believe, the Wikipedia definition of WP:BATTLE. If it is not, please be specific in outlining how I have been behaving otherwise so I can not engage in such again. I believe I have complied with the stipulations you made at ANI (which did not include any interactions with Maverick Little). I need to know how I have not complied and would appreciate a specific answer from you on this. -- WV 18:34, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
"You don't get to feud with someone because I never specifically listed them somewhere as someone not to feud with." Your comments for a reviewing admin above read: "Winkelvi/MaranoFan/Calvin999/Chesnaught/Legacypac/MaverickLittle feud." You did NOT include ML in the ANI comments and stipulations you made about the feuding (link to archived discussion here). It appears you have added something that was not in the agreement nor understood by me or anyone else involved. I don't understand how you - or anyone - can do that when there was a specific agreement in place.
Even so, like I said above, I don't see how I have been feuding with Maverick Little. At all. He put a bogus warning on my talk page and I responded by putting a warning about bogus warnings on his talk page. Is it wrong to use templated warnings? Does properly and appropriately using templated warnings constitute feuding and battleground behavior? I started an RfC on the matter over which ML improperly used the warning template on me so that there would be no feuding. If anything, I think that RfC proves my intent was never in the way of feuding with anyone, rather, to get a proper and peaceful resolution rather than see edit warring ensue.
Further, everything I saw in your warning about a month-long block was SPECIFIC to the MF/Ches/Calvin/WV matter, nothing/nobody else. I am a person who wants and needs specifics. Specifics go hand-in-hand with logic. As a person on the autism spectrum, specifics and logic are necessary for me to function as appropriately as possible among others, and that includes Wikipedia. I hope can understand that. NE Ent did, and his comments to me above are evidence of that as well as the result of my understanding what was happening and what was expected of me. It was followed up upon at the ANI where you specified a month-long block for anyone who violated the MF/Ches/Calvin/WV "treaty". I have not violated your specifics nor have I violated the treaty. -- WV 18:51, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
And, for the record, I think your month-long block of Maverick Little based on the "feud" was unwarranted, as well. -- WV 19:00, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Floquenbeam. Please reduce Winkelvi's block to 51-hours, as blocks are not intended to be a punishment. A 51-hour block is more than ample to get the point across to Winkelvi. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 19:35, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Floquenbeam. I have reviewed the ANI cases and I find this statement by you to be rogue and contrary to our five pillars:

Another approach, which I'm considering instigating unilaterally on my own, is to declare an involuntary cease fire, and the next time I see any of these people say anything remotely unkind about any of the others, no matter how justified that particular comment might be, either directly or on their friend's talk pages, no matter how many vandals they report or edits they make or friends they have, no matter how long they've been here, I'll block them for 1 month. And then I'll block anyone on the other side who gloats or gravedances. Until they're all blocked, or until they all stop it. Thoughts? --Floquenbeam (talk) 3:15 pm, 11 April 2016, Monday (20 days ago) (UTC−7)

At ANI there is also no mention of MaverickLittle. I again ask you to dampen Winkelvi's block. I am saddened you are seeking a site ban for Winkelvi. I am pinging Cas Liber to take a look at this. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 20:19, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
Ummm, I have no familiarity with any of this. Can someone put up some links? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:06, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive920#Proposal_for_interaction_ban_with_User:Winkelvi, Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive920#MaranoFan_and_WP:CIR_issues, User:Floquenbeam/ArbCom. NE Ent 21:27, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
  • I'm not privy to the ins and outs of this case, but I was asked to look at it. It may be true that the one editor wasn't specifically mentioned in the warning that Floquenbeam issued but that doesn't mean that disruptive behavior elsewhere is not blockable. I can't judge whether Winkelvi "deserved" a month-long block, and I don't want to judge on that since I kinda like Winkelvi and sympathize with them--and because I'm not really that objective I try to stay away when they run into an argument with other editors (y'all may have noticed my conspicuous absence from the most recent MaranoFan exchanges, an editor for whom I have no patience). Checkingfax, I do not believe it is your job to review Floq's work; you can have an opinion, of course, but this comes across as being arrogant and patronizing, and worse, that's not helping Winkelvi at all. Calling that warning "rogue", well, some take that as a compliment; it is certainly not lacking in regard to any of the five pillars, esp. given that these editors have, unfortunately (and I say this without pointing fingers), taken up an enormous amount of the community's time on various boards, including much of my time.

    Winkelvi, responding to a templated warning you think of as inappropriate with a templated warning is probably not the cleverest thing to do; sorry. Floq, if this is their only infraction (I don't know if it is or not), I would encourage some leniency--with the caveat that I am not entirely objective here. (If this ever comes before ArbCom, for instance, I will have to give it some more thought.) That's about all I can say here, WV--besides I hope you get to get out of the doghouse and back in the real editing world again, with an even milder and gentler approach... Drmies (talk) 21:23, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I appreciate everything you've had to say here, Drmies, and will take it all to heart. But, I do have to take issue with one comment you made: there was nothing in my motivation for placing the templated warning that was even close to attempting to be clever. It was simply me trying to do the right thing and warning someone to not post inappropriate an unwarranted warnings on someone's talk page. In hindsight, I can now see that it wasn't the best decision on my part, but there was nothing malicious intended and certainly nothing that could be considered intentional disruption or toying with another editor by any stretch of the imagination. -- WV 21:46, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Hi, Drmies. Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. Rogue is making up and enforcing policy outside of consensus. I will highlight what I consider to be rogue:

Another approach, which I'm considering instigating unilaterally on my own, is to declare an involuntary cease fire, and the next time I see any of these people say anything remotely unkind about any of the others, no matter how justified that particular comment might be, either directly or on their friend's talk pages, no matter how many vandals they report or edits they make or friends they have, no matter how long they've been here, I'll block them for 1 month. And then I'll block anyone on the other side who gloats or gravedances. Until they're all blocked, or until they all stop it. Thoughts? --Floquenbeam (talk) 3:15 pm, 11 April 2016, Monday (20 days ago) (UTC−7)

I am giving my thoughts, per the request by Floq. It is my analysis that Floq made an inappropriate veiled threat and now made it a promise instead. I am sure Floq was pissed, but now is the time to stand down and be resonable. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 21:41, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Winkelvi, I wasn't saying you were trying to be clever; in fact, I'm sure it was an impulsive edit. I'm saying it wasn't clever. Checkingfax, try as I might, I cannot see in Floq's statement what you see. I see a final warning, not a threat, and I happen to know that admins have latitude, given to them by the community. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 01:12, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Rather than 4 different threaded replies, they're all here in one handy paragraph. I'm not pissed off, I'm just kind of resolved that this constant bickering has to end one way or another. Drmies, this block isn't just for the templated messages on ML's page in isolation; that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It is for the constant bickering and templating and reverting and ANI reporting that has been going on for months. I made it clear in the last ANI that the community has had enough of this, and WV's response here boils down to "well, you never said I couldn't do that same behavior with other people". I'd ask any reviewing admin to take a 5 minute look at WV's contribs and ML's contribs. They are littered with templated warnings to enemies, always followed by removal of templates from their own pages with snarky edit summaries, all based on disruptive behavior on both sides in articles and article talk pages. That is a majority of what they do. A 51 hour lock would most certainly not be ample to get the point across, because previous blocks of up to one week have not been enough to get the point across. As always, I have no problem with other admins reviewing and modifying anything I do, or taking it to ANI for broader review. But there comes a time when repeated promises to change behavior need to be discounted, when the behavior hasn't actually changed. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:04, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Floquenbeam, I know you aren't replying to me here, but there are a few things I'd like to say. First, you say that there has been constant bickering and templating and reverting and ANI reporting. Actually, in regard to my behavior, there hasn't any of that since the truce discussed at ANI. Other than putting warning templates on the talk pages of those who were vandalizing and going to AN3 once in the last two weeks for a continual edit warrior (whom I hadn't encountered previously), I have not been doing any of the things you listed at ANI over two weeks ago as problematic behaviors you didn't want to see any more. So yes, I invite anyone to look at my contributions to verify that has been the case. I would also like those looking into this to know that I have been on a 1RR restriction for three months. Haven't come close to violating it. Have no desire to edit war ever again. Have no desire to go beyond 1RR ever again. So, when you say that I'm someone who makes promises but doesn't get the point when it needs to be made, that is also not true. I understand you are frustrated with the four of us. I really do get it. That's why I have done everything I can to keep my nose clean since the ANI discussions and not do what you said to not do. I had NO idea that putting what I saw as a justified warning template on the talk page of an editor not involved in the ANI truce discussion would be an issue for you. In hindsight, I can see why it was the last straw for you, however, I don't think it was at all fair to block the other party for a month as they were not involved in the MF/Ches/Calvin/WV debacle. In summary, yes, the bickering has to end. And you know what? As far as I am concerned, I'm done with worrying about what others are doing in Wikipedia. Hand to my heart, lips to God's ears - done with it. If that means I never go to a noticeboard again or warning template anyone again, then fine. Let's make that agreement and I will stick to it. Just like I have stuck with every other agreement I've made in the past: the 1RR agreement, staying away from certain articles, staying away from topics, staying away from certain editors. All informal, all agreed upon, all promises kept. I don't know why you think I've not followed through on these things, but I have. If I hadn't, I would have been blocked for them as I know there are admins and others who watch me and report to admins when they think I've crossed a line. That's all I have to say and, short of formally requesting an unblock, or if I am asked a question and need to respond, I won't post further. If you, or anyone else has anything to say in response, I'm open to hearing all of it. -- WV 20:23, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

These things are true:

  • Wikipedia is an encyclopedia; the encyclopedia needs editors.
  • Winkelvi is an editor who has self identified as having Asperger Syndrome.
  • The needs of the encyclopedia outweigh the needs of any individual.
  • Therefore, we do not, or should not, make exceptions on standards of behavior due to individual's real life situations.
  • If we are a humane society, an individual's circumstances should inform our approach to addressing deviations from behavioral standards.

Based on the above, it is my proposition that the block on Winkelvi is unnecessary, and unnecessarily harsh.

Reviewing the previous ANI threads, Proposal for interaction ban with User:Winkelv and MaranoFan and WP:CIR issues, and especially Floquenbeam's proposal, several significant things were emphasized:

  • Repeated participation in ANI threads
  • Interaction with the the cluster editors, mostly, I believe, regarding music articles, listed at User:Floquenbeam/ArbCom

Subsequent to that statement -- because I've had real life interactions with Asperger's indiviudal, I suggested quite specific behaviors for Winkelvi -- the so called Plan A above. Since them time, Winkelvi has been steadfast to his word with no ANI posts [11], and as far as I'm aware, no on-wiki mention of the editors listed at User:Floquenbeam/ArbCom.

Note that Irisdescent's reply to Floquenbema's proposal specifically suggested Yeah, that, with an exception for user talk pages. If they want to whine and bitch at each other about nothing much they can do so as much as they like on their own talkpages as far as I'm concerned, -- a comment Floquenbeam did not object to.

Therefore, to block Winkelvi for interacting on talk pages with an editor not listed as a "Hatfield" or "McCoy" at User:Floquenbeam/ArbCom --harsh.

Now, has Winkelvi been a little over the top with his posts to MaverickLittle's page [12] -- absolutely. But consider the incoherent and contradictory approach Wikipedia has to communication -- we have tomes of templates under {{Single notice links}} -- and we expect editors to (maybe) not template the regulars [[WP:DTTR|] -- except those of us that do WP:TTR. I get the argument that "he should have known" the behavior was too similar to the music editor / ANI stuff -- but given, the unclear, contradictory advice this community gives out, saying that to an Asperger's individual is like telling a color blind person "Don't take the blue pill."

So, rather than keep the block in place, why don't we give very specific expectations to Winkelvi, and let him get back to editing. Because the history of his behavior since he agreed to follow Plan A clearly shows that, to a very large degree, he will follow additional expectations (and if he fails to it will be either they weren't clear enough or didn't anticipate a particular situation).

My suggestion is this: Winkelvi strictly focus on content, and restrict discussion on article talk pages to content related issues, not other editor's behavior. The only exception that seems reasonable would be a single edit warring notice, and subsequent report to WP:3RR if another editor goes over the 3 per day limit. NE Ent 01:08, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

You've got mail, in your inbox![edit]

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Hello, Winkelvi. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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CookieMonster755 📞 19:44, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Got it and replied! -- WV 19:54, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Brushy Bill[edit]

Winkelvi, I understand and appreciate your effort to maintain a high degree of accuracy in Wikipedia articles. Specifically, the Billy the Kid bio. Rumors of Survival paragraph. "In 1948, a Central Texas man known as Ollie Partridge Roberts, who went by the nickname "Brushy Bill", began to claim he was Billy the Kid. "

Two books identify Brushy Bill Roberts as Oliver Pleasant Roberts; "Billy the Kid, His Real Names Was...", Jim Johnson, 2006, Outskirts Press, Inc., Denver, CO, and "Brushy Bill....Just Another Billy the Kid Tall Tale?", Roy Haws, 2015, self-published. Both books cite the source as the World War I registration of Oliver Pleasant Roberts, nearest relative, Mollie Roberts. Brushy Bill said he married Mollie Brown ("Alias Billy the Kid", p. 90).

I do not find a source that justifies the name, Ollie Partridge Roberts. There are several references to Ollie Partridge Roberts on the internet, but no source is cited. Thank you, BBA HistorianBBAhistorian (talk) 22:02, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

The two sources you mention above are self-published and, therefore, are not appropriate or sufficient for sourcing within Wikipedia. As I have told you previously, Wikipedia uses reliable sources -- self-published works are not considered reliable sources. Currently, the Billy the Kid article contains reliable sources that confirm Brushy Bill's name to be Ollie Partridge Roberts. Unless something is available that would support the real name you purport was Brushy Bill's, then the content in the Billy the Kid article, along with the sources already present, needs to stay as is. -- WV 00:24, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Unblock request[edit]

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Winkelvi (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)


Request reason:

Two weeks into my block, I am requesting to be unblocked. To be clear, it was never my intent to be involved in a battle or feud with anyone. When I performed the edit that led to my block, it never occurred to me at the time that would be seen as battling or feuding with the other editor. Now, however, I can see how it would be perceived as such and I realize now it actually was a continuation of conflict between the other editor and myself. Such conflict only inflames emotions and creates more drama. That's not appropriate and it's not fair to the other editor because it has the potential to set them up for an inappropriate reaction. And that has the potential to lead to disruption.

The time I have had away from Wikipedia has been beneficial as it has allowed me to breathe, separate myself from the behaviors that got me blocked, and look objectively at a couple of important things:

  • (1) What I can contribute positively to Wikipedia;
  • (2) How I should go about that from here on out.
    • For #1, I know that I am a good copyeditor, enjoy making image contributions, and going forward will focus on that plus working toward helping to bring articles to GA status.
    • For #2, I now realize that my focus has been too much on people in Wikipedia rather than editing, improving, and adding content in Wikipedia. I am a rule follower and when others don't follow the rules (from my perspective, whether my perspective is right or wrong), it gets under my skin. I will not longer allow my Autism to affect me in Wikipedia in the manner that damages my perspective while participating and contributing and ends up damaging others and negatively affecting their perspective while contributing.

Moving forward:

  • Remedies for my past problems with editors and editing:
    • Resolving to no longer let what others do here affect me in such a manner that it will negatively influence my contributing and the contributions of others. This will put my focus on editing articles and seeing others more positively while ignoring those who I may see as not positively contributing.
    • Interaction-wise, as I had been doing prior to my block, I will continue to not interact with editors with whom I had issues and were seen as part of the "feud" discussed at ANI a few weeks ago.
    • When dealing with other editors, think about how my actions/comments/reactions will affect others and whether the result of that will be a positive or negative to the community.
    • Simply walking away when things get too contentious and heated
    • Refrain from using warning templates as a way to establish a foothold in a dispute
    • Utilizing dispute resolution forums such as DRN, and 3O.
    • Remembering that no matter how important or urgent things may seem at the moment, it's still just the internet.
    • With all this kept in mind by me as I go ahead, I don't see how I can go wrong in the same area(s) again and will do my level best to change the past unhelpful and non-productive behaviors I've engaged in previously.
Thank you for considering my request. If I do receive an unblock as a result, any suggestions from experienced, neutral editors and admins on how to better my participation and activities in Wikipedia would be welcomed. Respectfully,-- WV 21:00, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Decline reason:

I have just spent a considerable amount of time checking the history of your previous blocks. I see you have a history of this kind of "I really didn't realise what I was doing, but now I do, and I won't ever do it again" kind of unblock request. I also see that in the past that has worked, but that after each block you have returned to the same disruptive editing. The blocking administrator for your last block said "I'll defer to any uninvolved admin, but my own opinion is that this needs to stick for the full week, so Winkelvi realizes that he actually can't do this anymore, then promise to stop after the block." Well, the block didn't stick for the full week, and just a few months later we are here again. I think it's time for a block to really stick for the full length, so that at last you learn that ignoring policy until you are blocked, and then promising you now understand and won't make the same "mistakes" again will not keep getting you out of blocks indefinitely. The alternative is that you don't get that message, and probably sooner rather than later an administrator decides "Enough is enough. Winkelvi has had enough short blocks and not learnt: it's time for an indef block." The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:20, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Actually, JamesBWatson, you're quite incorrect in your assessment. Every block I've experienced, every strong direction I've been given (when told if I didn't comply I would end up with a block), I've come away from it doing what needed to be done to keep from being blocked and have not "returned to the same disruptive editing". Adding to that, far as I know, I've never been blocked for the reason this block was imposed. I have learned what was needed to be learned here and have made resolutions (as outlined above) to make sure none of this needs to be learned again. As far as what the blocking admin mentioned regarding this particular block, that same comment was made by the same admin for two others blocked for the same reasons/incidents/feuding - and they were unblocked two weeks early. Neither made the detailed notations about changes in behavior that I did in my unblock request. -- WV 13:44, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
The problem with that is that there are about 200 other ways you can be disruptive. We can't let you learn your lesson and get off the block early for each type of disruption. It is not enough that you regularly change your form of disruption, you need to learn to not be disruptive in any form. HighInBC 14:06, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Look, I'm not interested in arguing about this. I did what I should do following a block: Made a plan, outlined it above, admitted I was wrong, and it was rejected. I followed up with my comments to the declining admin. Now you're telling me I'm someone who is incapable of controlling themselves regarding disruptive behavior. That is uncalled for and totally unfair, HighInBC. -- WV 14:13, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
(ec)That is not what I have said. What I was trying to communicate with you is that your comment about how you have learned from your past mistakes and that your current block for something new does not address the reason for the declining of the block. I am pretty sure you are capable of not being disruptive, you do it for months straight sometimes.
You are right that you are saying the correct things after a block. But once the block is over you have in the past found other ways to be disruptive. Nobody is suggesting that you can't avoid being disruptive, just that you have not so far. The fact that the disruption changes form does not invalidate this.
All that aside I am seeing that 2 of your 3 unblocks(not counting the one that was reversed due to 3RR exemption) were for edit warring. Edit warring that continued up until this January. Since your first unblock for edit warring you have been blocked for edit warring. This sort of contradicts the claim that you don't repeat behaviour after being unblocked for something. HighInBC 14:25, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Have I edit warred since I was last blocked and warned for it and a 3-month 1RR was imposed on me? No. Did I come anywhere close to even appearing as if I had violated that 1RR restriction? No. Is it fair for you to bring that up? I don't think it is, mostly because you have not researched how that all happened and how it all ended up. Is the recent, now obviously permanent result what's important or are the events leading up to the final result important? As far as what you said, yes, it does basically state that I am not capable of not causing disruption. Your follow up comment, "you have in the past found other ways to be disruptive", confirms this belief. Like I already said, I'm not interested in arguing about this. I think you believe you are being helpful here, but I have say, I'm not seeing the helpfulness or what I'm supposed to get out of your comments other than what I've already said I gleaned from them. -- WV 14:34, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm just curious, how many voluntary wikibreaks have you taken for WP-related reasons, and for how long? My Wikiworld changed dramatically after I trained myself to do that, and I think I've taken about three for a total of about 2 weeks. To a great degree, it put me in control of my own situation here. ―Mandruss  14:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm glad that worked for you. -- WV 14:36, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. See WP:WIN. ―Mandruss  14:39, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
I have no idea how that applies to your comments or my response. Please be specific as to why you referred to that policy. -- WV 14:42, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Referring to the spirit, if perhaps not the letter. As is your habit in my experience, you have to pick apart every opposing comment to the nth degree, expertly ferreting out anything that could be construed as a flaw in the argument, endlessly demanding that others play that game with you. It looks to me you have been given as much due process as anyone ever gets at Wikipedia, if not more, and you should drop it. Refusal to do so shows a clear need to WIN. ―Mandruss  14:50, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
I get what you are saying, however, your assessment of my intentions is quite off. I have never engaged in game playing. Those on the Autism spectrum are really not capable of such behavior. With me and other Aspies, what you see is what you get, there's nothing untoward or calculating behind it. -- WV 14:55, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Case in point. You picked out one bit of my comment, endlessly demanding that others play that game with you, and focused almost entirely on it. The rest of my comment got a I get what you are saying, however, and your past pattern of behavior suggests that you probably do not get what I'm saying. I think a far better reply would have been: "I get what you're saying, and I'll give that some thought", especially if you then actually gave it some thought. ―Mandruss  15:03, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that's what those on the high end of the Autism spectrum do. Pick out and focus. It's one of the reasons why we are such good content- and copy-editors. While I'm sure you do think you know what I get and what I don't, it's obvious to me (the object of your assumptions) that you really don't. Frankly, I'm not certain what your purpose in coming here and commenting truly is. Past history between you and I shows you intentionally trying to poke and needle me and argue endlessly at various article talk pages. At this point, your comments are starting to mirror that past activity. I suppose some, knowledgeable about how you have interacted with me and have discussed me at ANI and article talk pages in the past, would see your appearance here as gravedancing. If you have nothing truly helpful to say, please refrain from making more unhelpful comments that are now just pointing out what you see as my character flaws. Doing so is certainly not accomplishing anything productive, in fact, it's only starting to make me angry. -- WV 15:19, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm on the autism spectrum, too, by the way. ―Mandruss  15:21, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Right, the old "you have commented on my behavior multiple times before, so you must be out to get me, so I don't need to listen to anything you say" argument. That's when I check out. Take care. ―Mandruss  15:23, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Please stop. Please. I read what you wrote, I will consider your words as the day goes on. But this continual display of WP:WIN and WP:LASTWORD from you is not helping anything. If you truly are on the Autism spectrum, then you know that repeated bombardment to force your point and agenda is just more noise than signal, and it only makes matters worse for us. Now you've gone from bombardment to bludgeoning. I already told you you're making me angry, yet you continued. Enough, okay? -- WV 15:28, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

  • Winkelvi, I have just read all the posts to this page since I declined your unblock request. I have found it very interesting, and there's a number of thoughts that have been prompted. I will try to restrict myself to mentioning only those that I feel stand at least some chance of being helpful to you. However, I find that difficult: my natural tendency is to say everything that comes to mind which seems to me relevant, whether helpful or not. That is one of the many symptoms of a combination of being somewhere moderately on the autism spectrum and having quite severe attention deficit disorder.
First of all, "the same disruptive editing" was an unfortunate choice of words, since, as you have rightly pointed out, the disruptive editing is not exactly the same. However, as has been pointed out by another editor, it is essentially part of the same pattern, the particular forms being variations on essentially one theme.
In answer to Mandruss you have referred to "just pointing out what you see as my character flaws". I know only too well what that feels like, having spent a lifetime of people attacking me for what they see as character flaws which are in fact parts of how my brain is programmed, through no choice of mine. However, whether Mandruss regards them as character flaws or not, it is, I think, worth trying to see whether there is any truth in them. The tendency to "pick apart every opposing comment to the nth degree, expertly ferreting out anything that could be construed as a flaw in the argument" is one which I suffer from, and which many people I have known throughout my life have regarded as a character fault, or even as a "game" that I play, as Mandruss called it. I know, however, that it is nothing of the sort for me, and I have no doubt the same applies to you. Nevertheless, not being a character flaw or a game does not prevent it from being a problem, and it is worth being aware of the problem, so as to make it possible to watch out for it and try to minimise its effect. It seems to me that you do have an unfortunate tendency to latch onto one aspect of a situation where you feel you can prove the other person wrong, and concentrate on that, apparently oblivious of all other aspects of the situation. Often the aspect you latch onto is some minor detail, while you seem to miss the central point. I do not mention that to criticise you, much less to attack you; I say it in the hope you may perhaps think about it, and try to see how it applies to the conversations which have been going on on this page, because if you can do that then it is possible you may be able better to understand what others were trying to say to you, and learn from them. It seems to me that some of the things which have been posted to you on this page have mistakenly blamed you for things for which you are not to blame. That is unhelpful, for various reasons, including the fact that it gives you something clearly wrong for you to focus on criticising, instead of focussing on other aspects of what has been said, which in some cases could be helpful. Blaming someone for the symptoms of an autistic spectrum condition is as unhelpful as blaming someone for being left handed, but simply dismissing attempts to point out what the problems caused by such a condition are is equally unhelpful. You say that in the past you have learnt to avoid specific problems which have led to specific blocks. Perhaps you can now put some thought into how to try to avoid the essential common point which lies underneath all of those specific problems. That common point is always focussing on what you disagree with from other editors, rather than on what you might agree with. Time and time again when another editor has posted a message on this page recently, in what looks to me like an attempt to help you see what the problems are, instead of considering how what has been said might help, you have focussed on criticising, if not attacking, some aspect of what the other editor has said, and dismiss it. I am not interested in blaming you for that, and I do not attribute it to a "character fault", but the point is no matter what the cause of the problem, if you can recognise that it is a problem, then that opens up the possibility of watching out for it, and trying to avoid it, or at least mitigate its effects. I suggest that when you see a message from another editor which you perceive as negative or unfair, before you respond to it, try thinking "Although I think this is unfair, can I find any element of it which may be valid?" Sometimes the answer will be "no" but more often there will be something positive there, something worth taking note of. If there is anything positive, very often it will be a good idea to respond to the positive aspect, and just ignore the negative aspect. You don't always have to respond to the part you feel most strongly about. Also, in the small minority of cases where there is nothing positive, very often the best response is no response: you don't always have to say anything at all.
I have no way of knowing whether any of what I have said will be of any use to you, and if it isn't then feel free to forget it. However, I hope you will believe that it was written in a sincere and good-faith attempt to offer you something that may be helpful. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 20:55, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
JamesBWatson: Want a shock? I absolutely agree with everything you have said here. Further, I want you to know how I completely appreciate you taking the time to not simply ignore my response to your unblock denial (unfortunately, it's something most admins do, in my experience). The time you have taken here to formulate and communicate your thoughts succinctly and kindly in regard to my problems in Wikipedia is, in my opinion, unprecedented. Thank you for giving me so much to go on, think on, work on, and remember when I find myself feeling as if I'm backed in a corner or going a direction that's unhelpful all around. Cheers and sincere thanks to you. -- WV 03:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for saying that. I put quite a bit of thought and effort into thinking out what to say, and it's good to know it's appreciated. In answer to your question "Want a shock", actually it isn't a shock. The whole reason why I took the trouble to write what I did was that I got the impression that you very likely would understand what I said and agree with it, if I could express it in a way which came across as sympathetic to you, rather than coming across as yet another person blaming you. I wasn't at all sure whether I had succeeded in doing that, but from what you say it seems I probably did. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 08:57, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
  • A tiny point, of no importance at all, but I can't bear knowing that I said something wrong and just leaving it. Above, I wrote "what another editor called the essential common point which lies underneath all of those specific problems". In fact, as far as I remember no "other editor" said that, it was my own expression. In an earlier draft of my message I quoted from another editor, but then I decided to drop the quotation, but I accidentally left the words "what another editor called" in place. I am now removing those words. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 09:13, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Something I forgot to mention when I responded several hours ago, JamesBWatson is that the advice you gave is great, I plan to follow it, and also plan to implement the strategies you mentioned when my block is up. Thanks again,-- WV 01:37, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Billy the Kid[edit]

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Billy the Kid you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. Time2wait.svg This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BlackJack -- BlackJack (talk) 13:00, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, BlackJack. Thanks for taking up the review of this article. I've been waiting quite a while for someone to tackle the GAR on it, so I'm happy to see it's finally going to get done. Unfortunately, because I am currently sitting out a month-long block until June 1 (or so -- I've never been good at figuring out when blocks end), I won't be able to do anything you suggest improvement-wise on the article to bring it to GA status. I've put a lot of work into this article to get it ready for a GAR and would hate to not be able to participate. Is it possible to put the GAR on hold until my block expires? Thanks,-- WV 23:35, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello, WV. Don't worry as I haven't done more than an initial read so far. That was to ensure there are no grounds for immediate failure (and there aren't). I'll take my time until you are back. It isn't an article I can do quickly in any case. Thanks for letting me know, and all the best. Jack | talk page 08:56, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply and your willingness to not rush it. Appreciated! See you in a few days. :-) -- WV 14:00, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, June 1, at 18:58 GMT (not sure what that is where you live). I'm more than willing to help with the GA, by the way - is there anything I can do to help? --PatientZero talk 09:02, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

For clarity[edit]

Are you under a 1RR agreement? It would be silly to get blocked over Chris Kyle where you've already made 2 reverts today. Keri (talk) 17:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

No, I am not. -- WV 17:32, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
That's cool. I don't want to see people being blocked at all. I've requested PP again. Keri (talk) 17:34, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Madonna and the lede[edit]

TFTW Winkelvi. Just trying to improve a GA article that sometimes looks like a Rolling Stone review, not adequate for an Encyclopedia. Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, Frank Zappa also "Pushed the boundaries" but the language tone (and style) in their articles is mostly neutral. Greetings. Ajax1995 (talk) 16:03, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Ajax1995, you are violating the three-revert rule - you need to gain consensus on the article's talk page, rather than revert. --PatientZero talk 16:09, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Ajax1995, it doesn't matter if you're right regarding content wording, it doesn't matter if you're wrong regarding content wording (in this case, I believe you are wrong). What matters is that you are edit warring along with the others and not discussing a thing at the article talk page as you should. I opened up a discussion there and suggest you get to it. -- WV 16:17, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
That's right Winkelvi, reaching concensous, a better result will be achieved. Good Day! Ajax1995 (talk) 18:01, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Noel Neill[edit]

As I am sure you are aware, there's been a request for an RfC on whether to keep or change the image. I set up an informal RfC to last for about one week. Hopefully the editors involved can come to a solution before then. You're a far more seasoned editor then me, so I wanted to leave a personal message about it on your talk page. I feel like I'm stepping over some toes but I assure you, this is not my intention. I have no quarrel with any editor involved or any solution created. Feel free to ping me if you need anything. Mr rnddude (talk) 07:35, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Mr rnddude, I appreciate the notification and the courtesy as well as recognizing the situation for what it is. -- WV 07:40, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, kind sir[edit]

Hi, Winkelvi. Thank you for your support of my nomination for adminship. I really appreciate your comments and your !vote. It means a lot to me. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 07:24, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
AKA the baloney-fighting barnstar! HappyValleyEditor (talk) 01:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

LOL! Thanks, HVE :-D

A barnstar for you![edit]

WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
Thank you for helping protect Wikipedia against fraudulent content, undisclosed paid editing, and COI. These things represent one of the largest threats to the integrity of the project and would surely have long since destroyed Wikipedia if were not for individuals such as yourself maintaining the front line. Mkdwtalk 20:18, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Wow - never saw that coming. Thank you, Mkdw! And thanks for spotting the sockpuppetry happening and connecting it with the (likely) appropriate accounts. I wondered if we had a sock-situation going on there. Good on you for taking it to SPI. -- WV 20:34, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 August 2016[edit]

CHARLES JOSEPH WHITMAN[edit]

Sir ...

Please be so kind as to explain, in some detail, why you removed the added changes by COLONEL77 from earlier today to this page for CHARLES JOSEPH WHITMAN / USMC ...

Seems strange ... ???

Am one of the few who actually knew Charles Whitman and was involved in his funeral so what was added is absolutely, 100 % correct ...

Seems too many of you ' EDITORS' make these changes to myself and other people without sensible reasons and for what seem to be basically wrong reasons when we are mostly only adding more, better and really ' correct ' material where a good amount of what has been entered on WIKIPEDIA since day # 1 is and has been totally wrong ...

You must know this ...

To-date, we have made literally hundreds of such corrections / additions which have not been altered / removed ... ???

Lastly, please send your response to - CLAYMARSTON@HOTMAIL.COM - rather than an internal response we never seem to find in a timely manner ...

Thank You Very Much ...

COLONEL77/ - www.historicalmilitaria.com -

COLONEL77 (talk) 16:59, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

No, I won't be sending you a reply to your email address. Yes, I made those reversions. Those reversions were made for the reason stated: unhelpful additions, original research, improper/no referencing, unencyclopedic tone. Please see WP:OR, WP:TONE, WP:VERIFY, WP:REF, WP:RS for policy on all the issues listed above. -- WV 17:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
=============[edit]

Your non-response is not at all helpful in any way, shape or form as 50 years later on from 1966 there is NO REFERENCE remaining to be found for any of the items we added / corrected which at times on WIKIPEDIA is just plain dumb as one cannot locate ' reference ' every single event, statement in the history of this orb ...

Therefore, by removing these totally accurate / correct additions you are depriving all the people who might view the WHITMAN page from this point forward of knowing the additional facts of his death, funeral, where the cemetery is actually to be found and all those other points ...

Howwever, after scrolling down your way, way too long, almost endless, list of virtually nothing but complaints / accusations toward and against you one can then fully and readily understand you are utterly unsuited / unqualified for being able to have access to ' comment ' / ' correct ' / ' remove ' anything at all on WIKIPEDIA ...

Lastly, why are all you ' EDITORS ' never ' allowed ' or better still ' afraid ' to send an email to any person at a proper email address showing your real name rather than hiding out under your so-called dumb nom de plumes ... ???

This is all juvenile / childish / unprofessional / not businesslike, to say the very least ...

Therefore, we shall not bother you further in this regard as anyone seeing any of the above will know you are someone to most definitely steer well clear of.

- www.HistoricalMilitaria.com -

BIOGRAPHER OF THE LOST OF THE VIETNAM ERA - 1955 to 1975 -

REMEMBER, THERE IS HONOR STILL, IT IS FOR YOU TO SEE IT LASTS ©

IN REMEMBRANCE OF THOSE WE NEVER KNEW BUT OWE OUR LIVES AND FREEDOMS TO ©

R E M E M B R A N C E

SEMPER FIDELIS

COLONEL77

COLONEL77 (talk) 19:08, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

You are welcome to your opinion, however, you are not welcome to do what you will with Wikipedia articles if what you are doing is against policy and guidelines. -- WV 19:22, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey winkelvi[edit]

Can you make your pic version a bit darker? Her top appears green-greyish instead of black. EditsOrArticles (talk) 01:18, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Comparing both photos (infobox and the second from the same event) with three different devices, I see her top looking exactly the same darkness and hue. The second photo in the body of the article was too dark and the shadowing didn't allow for her eyes to be seen clearly. -- WV 01:22, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

August 2016[edit]

Information icon Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia as you did at Gal Gadot. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been undone.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges.

Not sure what you are up to, but there has been a discussion at the talk page for a while regarding the infobox photo. If you would like to see a different photo in the infobox than the one that has been there for over a week, please take part in the discussion rather than make what appears to be a "pointy" edit. Ismadeby (talk) 15:14, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Gal Gadot. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount and can lead to a block, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection.
Ismadeby (talk) 15:17, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Please stop making disruptive edits, as you did at User talk:Winkelvi and Gal Gadot.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. -- Ismadeby (talk) 15:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Winkelvi reported by User:Ismadeby (Result: ). Thank you. -- Ismadeby (talk) 15:32, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Amy Stiller[edit]

Hi. I have declined this speedy, because the page was redirected, not deleted, so the OldAfD template is useful. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 09:56, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Note[edit]

Block notices of active blocks can be removed. Declined unblock requests of active blocks cannot. --NeilN talk to me 20:15, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I did not know that. Thanks for clarifying, NeilN. -- WV 20:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

VOA[edit]

If we need a better-quality picture, I guess we have at least two choices: contact VOA and/or contact Trump HQ. If you pick one, I could do the other. It would need to be done fast, I suppose. Maybe by overnight mail, like FedEx (which is not easily ignored) to a particular mid-level staffer at each organization.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:19, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 August 2016[edit]

Arbitration Case opened[edit]

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/The Rambling Man.

Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/The Rambling Man/Evidence.

Please add your evidence by September 17, 2016, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/The Rambling Man/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For non-parties who wish to opt out of further notifications for this case please remove yourself from the list held here

For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:04, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

AN[edit]

You were mentioned a few times at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Self-promotion by User:Calibrador. This message is just a heads up because it doesn't look like your username was linked/notification generated. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 18:53, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 2 months for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

As various users have demonstrated at WP:AN, you've been following Calibrador around to different articles to confront him repeatedly: you recently got a one-month block for exhibiting a battleground personality, but you've again been engaging in battling someone all over the place. The edits you've reverted, as far as I've seen, aren't downright bad edits such as vandalism or stuff that would result from absolute cluelessness, stuff that needs to be removed: they're content about which editors can disagree in good faith, so there's no good reason to be stalking this user. Nyttend (talk) 20:44, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 September 2016[edit]