User talk:Writ Keeper/Archives/6

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can you undelete this and alert User:WikiFrow at the following thread [[1]] that it has been userfied with a link to their sandbox? It was previously deleted as advertisement but has recently been awarded prizes and will merit it's own standalone and I have agreed to help them make an article on this software. Thanks in advance Hell In A Bucket (talk) 17:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi again guys, I have amended this and would love to know your thoughts on how it all appears now.
WikiFrow (talk) 14:09, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi again, would you be able to take a look at the page again and let me know if anything needs tweaking as I hope to get this live asap, many thanks for your time once more!

WikiFrow (talk) 14:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

The Tea Leaf - Issue Seven (special Birthday recap)

A celebratory cupcake from the Teahouse Birthday Badge

It's been a full year since the Teahouse opened, and as we're reflecting on what's been accomplished, we wanted to celebrate with you.

Teahouse guests and hosts are sharing their stories in a new blog post about the project.

1 year statistics for Teahouse visitors compared to invited non-visitors from the pilot:

Metric Control group Teahouse group Contrast
Average retention (weeks with at least 1 edit) 5.02 weeks 8.57 weeks 1.7x retention
Average number of articles edited 58.7 articles 116.9 edits 2.0x articles edited
Average talk page edits 36.5 edits 85.6 edits 2.4x talk page edits
Average article space edits 129.6 edits 360.4 edits 2.8x article edits
Average total edits (all namespaces) 182.1 edits 532.4 edits 2.9x total edits

Over the past year almost 2000 questions have been asked and answered, 669 editors have introduced themselves, 1670 guests have been served, 867 experienced Wikipedians have participated in the project, and 137 have served as hosts. Read more project analysis in our CSCW 2013 paper

Last month January was our most active month so far! 78 profiles were created, 46 active hosts answered 263 questions, and 11 new hosts joined the project.

Come by the Teahouse to share a cup of tea and enjoy a Birthday Cupcake! Happy Birthday to the Teahouse and thank you for a year's worth of interest and support :-)

-- Ocaasi and the rest of the Teahouse Team 20:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
You are receiving The Tea Leaf after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To add or remove yourself for receiving future newsletters, please update the list here

My, what a useful wonderful person you appear to be

Frank Whittle CH 011867.jpg The "Knows an Order of Magnitude More Stuff than Floquenbeam" Award
OK, you strike me as smart enough that I should subtly yet obsequiously suck up to you, in the hopes of asking future favors of a technical nature. Unfortunately, being a Wikipedian, I have no social skills, so I only know how to suck up non-subtly by giving you one of these Wikilove thingamabobs. Floquenbeam (talk) 21:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Hah, I like it! I dunno about that, though; I still don't know how slide rules work. Writ Keeper 21:27, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The Teahouse Turns One!

It's been an exciting year for the Teahouse and you were a part of it. Thanks so much for visiting, asking questions, sharing answers, being friendly and helpful, and just keeping Teahouse an awesome place. You can read more about the impact we're having and the reflections of other guests and hosts like you. Please come by the Teahouse to celebrate with us, and enjoy this sparkly cupcake badge as our way of saying thank you. And, Happy Birthday!

Teahouse First Birthday Badge Teahouse First Birthday Badge
Awarded to everyone who participated in the Wikipedia Teahouse during its first year!

To celebrate the many hosts and guests we've met and the nearly 2000 questions asked and answered during this excellent first year, we're giving out this tasty cupcake badge.

Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
--Ocaasi and the rest of the Teahouse Team 22:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

You are a Teahouse Founder!

From the first months, through its first birthday, you have stuck with the Teahouse, nurtured its community, learned and helped, shared and improved. Simply put, the Teahouse would not be what it is without you. Stick around, because we need your lovely attitudes, sincere dedication, sharp minds, crafty design, caring reform, technical wits, and good humor. Display this delicious badge with honor, for you are a Teahouse Founder.

Teahouse Founders Birthday Badge Teahouse Founders Birthday Badge
Awarded to editors who participated in the Wikipedia Teahouse during its first months and are still participating a year later.

To celebrate the editors who have been with Teahouse from the beginning through its first year, we've made you this extra special birthday badge! Teahouse continues to be awesome because you are still here all these months later, so thank you. You are the Foundation of this awesome project.

Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges
With the utmost cheer and appreciation,
--Ocaasi and the rest of the Teahouse Team 23:00, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Unicode question

I'm using a different computer than when I made my most recent edit to User:Ryan Vesey/common.css. Now the icon I added is a box. Do you know what I can do to my computer so it recognizes the character? Ryan Vesey 00:35, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse script install

Hey Writ! Happy Teahouse Birthday :)

I was throwing errors with 'section editing not supported' for common.js pages, so I removed the section=new from the preload at Template:Teahouse_host_navbar. It worked better. Then, I added the WikiLove badge script to that option just like the other 3 scripts in there. Now, when I try to install the scripts the first time I get a 'section editing not supported error'. But if I go right back and try it again I got the proper instructions with editing field below. Any idea what could be causing that?

BTW, I am not having this problem on my testing account, so maybe it's an issue with the other junk I have in my common.js page for Ocaasi. OcaasiNew (talk) 19:47, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Also, I noticed that on the script instructions page, there is a fifth script that's mentioned but not preloaded, Wikipedia:Teahouse/Scripts_instruction, that script being the

Teahouse Q&A Response Links

Is there a reason it's on the instructions but not preloaded? Thanks for any guidance. Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 19:37, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Same to you! That sounds like a caching thing; you had the old version of the page the first time, which still had the section=new in it, and then it refreshed. Is it repeatable?
By the way, you have to be careful about that. IIRC, it works without "section=new", but it overwrites whatever's already in the .js page with the new text rather than adding it. Obviously that's fine for someone who doesn't have any scripts installed, but it's not cool for someone who does.
As for the other thing: I baked Equazcion's script into the "Ask a question" gadget a while back, so it's enabled by default for everyone. No need to install it; actually, if it's still mentioned there, we should take out the mention. :) Writ Keeper 19:45, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Okay, yeah, I looked it up and now I remember. It's not that it overwrites the old page, it's that the preload just fails quietly if the page already exists. So, the wikitext will be just what was there already, without the preload. Writ Keeper 19:51, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm not getting an overwrite effect when I try it. I think you're right that' the issue is not repeating, so probably cache issue. If you could test to confirm with you common.js that would be great. The thing about it not preloading if the page is already created is that the instructions at the top manually walk you through copying the scripts from the instruction box into the edit box, so it still 'works' just less conveniently. Not sure if that's a suitable compromise.
I'll remove that old fifth script from the instructions page. Ocaasi t | c 19:55, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

A favour

Could you look at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Polllilur? Ta. Peridon (talk) 17:44, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Wow, that wasn't a hoax? Could've fooled me. Writ Keeper 17:50, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Cindy reckons his battles are genuine - I'm still suspicious. The planned novels are definitely non-notable and probably totally imaginary. I'm not sure that this isn't a sock case involving a regular. That edit summary that he always uses rings a bell... Peridon (talk) 17:55, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I dunno about that. You're right, though: that edit summary does sound familiar. Damned if I know why, though. Writ Keeper 18:00, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
I mean that. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 23:05, 6 March 2013 (UTC))

Time for a block?

I rather think that you have seen the recent thread at User talk:Qwyrxian with reference to Lowkeyvision. I think that contributor perhaps now has me in their sights, as well as others in relation to different incidents. Eg: their edits to Lohara dynasty within the last 24 hours are plain bad and their single contribution to Talk:Lohara_dynasty#History template makes no sense at all. This spewing of inaccurate accusations has surely gone on long enough? Perhaps an enforced break while they read the very policies that they keep citing would not go amiss? I've left another note on their talk page relating to the false copyvio accusation etc. - Sitush (talk) 21:49, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

He's definitely starting to be annoying, but I'd like to try to give him one last chance. Mostly because, although I don't doubt that he got to that page from your contribs, nor that they're non-useful contributions, I'm not really sure he meant it to be targeting you; it seems to still be within his general area of interest, and they don't seem to be targeted specifically at your edits. Pointy perhaps, but not spiteful. There's another example where he did so to one of Qwyrxian's edits, but it was actually a useful edit, providing a source for a previously-unsourced statement that Qwyr had removed. So if you can bear with it just a little longer, I'd like to try. That said, feel free to ask for a second opinion from any other user if you feel I'm being too naive/wishy-washy. :) Writ Keeper 22:34, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I think it was a fair warning and a reason why you are a fair administrator. Kudos. For this: I admit that system isn't broke. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 22:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC))
I mean that(Lowkeyvision (talk) 23:05, 6 March 2013 (UTC))
Ok thanks, Writ Keeper. I am not in the habit of seeking second opinions for administrative matters. I approached you because we've had little, if any, involvement with each other and you happened to pop up there. I do think that Lowkeyvision is being deliberately disruptive when ever they seem not to be getting their own way. I've seen this pattern time and again on caste articles in particular and I can't recall an occasion when it ended happily for the disruptor. But time will tell in this instance: either they'll change or they'll be disruptive once too often. I need to find a bookmaker! - Sitush (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I am now on 3RR at Lohara dynasty, having tried to engage the pointy-ness regarding claims that the article in POV-y on the talk page. No need to warn me of the consequences. - Sitush (talk) 23:14, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1. [2]

2. [3]

3. [4]

4. [5]

5. [6]

I have asked Sitush 5 times to please put up the neutrality tags in good faith. Please warn him.

Also the administrator Qwyrxian again used his administrator tools to protect Sitush. I am holding my tongue but look at it please. See the first post. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 00:21, 7 March 2013 (UTC)) Please read this. He is now refusing to put up the neutrality tags. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 00:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC))
User:Qwyrxian now just did a roll back on his talk page.

04:12, 23 January 2012 Qwyrxian (talk | contribs) changed visibility of 3 revisions on page User talk:Sitush: edit summary unhidden (RD2: Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material)
04:11, 23 January 2012 Qwyrxian (talk | contribs) changed visibility of 4 revisions on page User talk:Sitush: content hidden and edit summary hidden (RD2: Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material)

(Lowkeyvision (talk) 00:41, 7 March 2013 (UTC))

You're misreading the logs. Qwyrxian performed those actions (which are called revision deletions, not rollbacks; rollbacks are something else) on January 23, a month and ha half ago. They were done to protect Sitush, yes--to protect him from some truly vile insults that someone was throwing at him. That's part of the job of an admin.
As far as the neutrality tag, I have to agree with Sitush on this one. "Neutral" doesn't mean that we don't say anything that could be negative or positive about a person. "Neutral" means that we fairly represent what's in the sources, and that we fairly represent the overall consensus across multiple sources. (And by the way, the one edit is clearly not a copyright violation.) Writ Keeper 01:04, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah shoot, you are right. I am being paranoid...why is my first source in the deleted logs then? (Lowkeyvision (talk) 01:08, 7 March 2013 (UTC))
Okay, but the fact that he refuses to put up neutrality tags on a subject that is debated is? (Lowkeyvision (talk) 01:10, 7 March 2013 (UTC))
Debated by whom? That's the point. If it's debated in other reliable sources, then yes, it's a good idea to have the discussion on whether the article conforms to NPOV. But if the sources agree that a person is weak-willed (and, as Sitush mentions, also when the subject is dead, so that we avoid posting harmful things about living people), it's not against NPOV to say that. Writ Keeper 01:49, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The author never actually wrote "Weak Willed. "The author is very balanced and fair in his assessment and can not imagine him writing such a poor descriptor of a person. I have ordered a copy of the books to verify. Thank you once again. Btw, he is still refusing to put up the neutrality tags. If I go over 3 revert limit I am done. What is wikipedias policy regarding having maintenance tags removed? (Lowkeyvision (talk) 02:39, 7 March 2013 (UTC))

To be honest, the policy is that maintenance tags are pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things, so there's no sense in fighting over them. The point of a maintenance tag is that it draws the attention of editors seeking problems to fix; this clearly already has editors' intentions, so a tag is not really needed. It's better to try to engage in a discussion on how to actually fix the problem than argue about a silly tag, right? :) Writ Keeper 02:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Agreed. Substance over silliness. (Lowkeyvision (talk) 02:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC))

A barnstar for you!

Administrator Barnstar Hires.png The Admin's Barnstar
That is indeed its name! Drmies (talk) 20:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
My toughest case yet! Writ Keeper (t + c) 21:01, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Re: DYKcheck

WP teahouse logo 3.png
Hello, Writ Keeper. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived. Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 23:19, 8 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.

A note of thanks

Thanks for fixing my Teahouse scripts... Now every user name has that "TB" button next to it. Cheers! ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 04:09, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

WP teahouse logo 3.png
Hello, Writ Keeper. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived. Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 05:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.


That was very sane of you. Thanks William M. Connolley (talk) 16:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure beats the usual insane actions WK takes. :-) BTW, what does the last phrase ("just as ...") in this sentence mean? "By the way, this unblock was without prejudice towards the problem being reported or the outcome of any discussion in this thread, just as the original block was."--Bbb23 (talk) 16:40, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Basically, I was taking this comment of Kim's at face value ("And that's before we consider any of the main issues at hand here"). The original block wasn't addressing the problems reported originally, it was in addition to any sanctions that might arise out of that. So, since Kim's block wasn't meant to be "what happens to DS as a result of his reported actions", neither was my unblock. Does that make sense? Writ Keeper (t + c) 16:59, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, thanks. I think the removal of the word "original" would make that clearer, although it may just be me.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:06, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Sure, I was actually internally debating using the word "original" there. I actually had decided to not use it, but then after I hit submit and read my finished post, I saw that it was still in there. Decided it didn't change that much, so I left it in, but I'll happily take it out if it makes the meaning clearer. (So much for sanity...) Writ Keeper (t + c) 17:09, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, WK. It's the buttons that are insane; they should understand what we intend and act accordingly.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:35, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for fixing that at ANI. I was just notified of what I inadvertantly did while posting there. :-)—cyberpower ChatOffline 19:19, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

No worries! I was going to post to your talk page earlier to let you know, but then I said, "Eh, it's not that big a deal, might as well do it myself." Gets it done that little bit quicker. :) Writ Keeper (t + c) 19:21, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


Network-idle.svg The Dual-Boot Barnstar
In recognition of the fact that you actually deserve more than one Barnstar for your recent work, Ched in his typically lazy manner drops off your "Dual-Boot" Barnstar for:
  1. Your efforts and work to embiggen the communication levels of Wikipedia.
  2. and the {{The Admin's Barnstar}} For your efforts to review a situation and keep things fair and WP:EQUAL in difficult times.
Heh, thanks. Not sure whether I deserve it or not (the "just doing my job" cliche comes to mind, and I'm not sure how good I am at it), but thanks all the same. :) Writ Keeper (t + c) 00:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Well I appreciate you stepping in and working your tail off to sort things out. It left me felling a lot more comfortable to step back from the situation. (I hate having to repeat myself sometimes) Not that I ever doubted it.Ched :  ?  00:19, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


Thank you for your kindness. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Any time. :) Writ Keeper (t + c) 18:22, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


Well, the retirement didn't last long and they're already bombarding me with quick-fire edits that are just clueless, however courteous the language may be. Have I fallen for a troll here or what? - Sitush (talk) 23:39, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think a troll...I think a POV-pusher who doesn't realize that POV pushing is what he's doing. Take this, for example, in his first section: "I am requesting because it is somewhat offensive to those whose ancestry converted from Hinduism". That's POV pushing, but I don't think he realizes it. To be honest, though, I'm so far out of my depth in subjects like this that I barely know which way is up. (And yeah, the rapid edits are annoying; I got spammed with something like twenty emails within twenty minutes. I'm not sure he realizes that it's annoying, though; it's an easy mistake to make for someone new.) I'm not really sure what to tell you at this point. Writ Keeper (t + c) 01:15, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Vitruvian Barnstar Hires.png The Technical Barnstar
It was like finding a needle in a haystack. Thanks for fixing my user Javascript setting page. Best, Tito Dutta (contact) 05:23, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Civility Barnstar Hires.png The Civility Barnstar
Also, fuck you, young person. I hate young people with a passion. Drmies (talk) 21:16, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


1. [[7]]

2. [[8]]

Banging rocks to become shiny. ;)

(Lowkeyvision (talk) 06:58, 17 March 2013 (UTC))

An unabashed fit of self-indulgence

So. Has it always been like this, and I just never noticed? Or maybe it's not actually like this at all, and it's just a few people making a very loud noise. I dunno, it doesn't really matter. I'ma take a short break, maybe see if things settle down. Maybe I'll actually try to find an article to work on (wouldn't that be a shocker), and work on it offline. I swear I had a great idea for a new article, but I can't remember what it was, and I can't even remember if it was in a dream or in real-life that I noticed we were currently missing it. (That happens a lot.) Maybe I'll try to figure out if that was real, and work on it if it is.

TL;DR: If you're here to ask me for help, maybe try someone else. I'll be back later. <3, Writ Keeper (t + c) 20:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Wearing admin pants does seem to give one a sudden insight into Wikipedia's seedy underbelly, doesn't it? Don't stay away too long; you'll be missed. Plus, god only knows what will happen if I have to try coding my own scripts; I'd either break the Internet or accidentally birth SkyNet. Take care, and all the best. Yunshui  20:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
  • FWIW, Writ Keeper, I've discovered that if you un-watchlist AN, ANI, all Arb-related pages, and a surprisingly small number of user talk pages, the encyclopedia at large really has no idea all this idiocy is going on, and is operating fairly normally, and could probably benefit from your wisdom. Still, your way makes sense too. Especially since one needs self-control not to "take a quick peek", which I admit I broke an hour ago. And especially if it's nice outside where you are. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
What is this "outside" of which you speak? Do we have an article on it? Yunshui  20:33, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm not 100% sure, as all I know about it is what I learned eating Cheetos and watching the Nature Channel on television, but it appears to be a dangerous place with ice and snow and hurricanes and a large fireball in the sky undergoing uncontrolled atomic fusion. But from what I understand people still go out in it to "unwind", which I suppose means "appreciate the climate-controlled and Cheetos-stocked inside of my living room more". --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:50, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Sounds awful. Literally. Yunshui  20:58, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Back. Writ Keeper (t + c) 02:45, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
For your recent outburst of extreme sanity in the midst of a Dramahwar™ during which there was precious little. Best regards, —Tim. /// Carrite (talk) 02:23, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

WP teahouse logo 3.png
Hello, Writ Keeper. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived. Message added by Tito Dutta (contact) 05:52, 21 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.

On the subject of Teahousage, you might want to comment on this thread, since I mentioned you as a possible solution... Yunshui  11:01, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind, the script I was thinking of has been located. I just sort of assumed it was one of your own inventions... Yunshui  11:26, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Could you help?


TAFi requires the help of an uninvolved admin to push the button to put it on the main page. Could you help? If so, please do tell. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:49, 21 March 2013 (UTC)



I am an 18 year old student proficient in java, and willing to learn almost anything related to coding/ any other topic. I just finished my examinations, and I was wondering if I could help around in any way I could.

If there is anything I can help around with, please do tell.

Thanks, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 06:29, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Heh, thanks! The Mediawiki code (or at least the bits of it I'm interested in with respect to the section numbering issue) is in PHP, not Java, but it's not too different. The most visible difference is that PHP variables all start with a dollar sign ($); in college, we used to call it "big money Java" for that reason. Though to be honest, it's probably more similar to C or Javascript than Java. Anyway, I talked to some Mediawiki-savvy people yesterday, and they agreed with my instinct that the place to start looking is Parser.php, specifically extractSections on line 5381, so you can take a look at that, if you like.
Here's a transcript of the chat log:
Chat log
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
[17:47] Writ_Keeper     hi all; anyone here familiar with how sections work in mediawiki?
[17:47] Writ_Keeper     i'm looking at extractSections in parser.php and wondering if that's a good place to start
[17:49] MatmaRex        Writ_Keeper: the only person who's really familiar with the parser is TimStarling, and he's away and in Australia. but ask away.
[17:49] Writ_Keeper     hm.
[17:50] Writ_Keeper     well, there's a common complaint on a project on enwiki about section numbering
[17:50] Writ_Keeper     the project is set up to be top-posting rather than bottom-posting
[17:50] Writ_Keeper     and that breaks the section numbering
[17:51] Writ_Keeper     if someone creates a new section above you while you're editing a different one, your edit goes to the wrong section, since your section id is out of sync
[17:52] Writ_Keeper     I replied to someone who complained that it would be a major efort to fix that, since it would presumably involve rewriting the parser or something
[17:52] Writ_Keeper     and wanted to find out what it would *actually* take
[17:52] Writ_Keeper     so
[17:52] DanielK_WMDE    Writ_Keeper: it's not easy to fix, but possible.
[17:52] Writ_Keeper     if anyone has any ideas on that, or where to begin researching it, that'd be cool
[17:53] DanielK_WMDE    Writ_Keeper: sections headers contain id-attributes, sou you can link to them [[#like this]]. That ID could be used insead of the section number to identify the section.
[17:53] DanielK_WMDE    completely replacing the old system would be hard, but one could transmit that ID in addition to the section number, and then double-check before saving
[17:54] DanielK_WMDE    that would generate an edit conflict. still better than the current situation.
[17:54] Writ_Keeper     is that something taht has to be done on your end, or is that already available to the client?
[17:54] DanielK_WMDE    It could be done on the server, most likely in EditPage.php
[17:55] DanielK_WMDE    hm... but...
[17:55] DanielK_WMDE    well, that ID is present in the generated HTML, not in the wikitext
[17:55] Writ_Keeper     wher is it in the HTML?
[17:55] DanielK_WMDE    that makes it hard to do this on the client side
[17:55] DanielK_WMDE    Writ_Keeper: can you link me to the page in question?
[17:56] DanielK_WMDE    for a more relevant example
[17:56] Writ_Keeper
[17:56] Writ_Keeper     (the target, not the redirect, obviously)
[17:56] DanielK_WMDE    Writ_Keeper: ok. so you can click on the TOV and go to
[17:57] DanielK_WMDE    the #Image_licensing thingy works, because the (currently) second section has that ID in the HTML code. let me find it...
[17:57] Writ_Keeper     the ID of the span in the header?
[17:57] Writ_Keeper     *section title
[17:57] DanielK_WMDE    Writ_Keeper: yes
[17:58] DanielK_WMDE    <span id="Image_licensing" class="mw-headline">
[17:58] DanielK_WMDE    inside the <h2>
[17:58] Writ_Keeper     hmmm
[17:58] Writ_Keeper     well, maybe I can incorprate that into our JS reply gadget
[17:58] DanielK_WMDE    but for editing, you need to find the relevant place of that marker in the wikitext
[17:58] DanielK_WMDE    the parser has all the necessary info for that, but in JS, that's going to be tricky
[17:58] Writ_Keeper     yeah...
[17:59] Writ_Keeper     wait, can I pass that to the API instead of the section number?
[17:59] DanielK_WMDE    also note that the id is generated from the == section title ==, but can look rather odd when non-ascii characters are involved.
[17:59] DanielK_WMDE    Writ_Keeper: no you can't. but making that work would be the way to go, imho.
[18:00] DanielK_WMDE    that's the approach i'd recommend.
[18:01] DanielK_WMDE    Writ_Keeper: seeper inside, the function Parser::getSection() would need to work with these identifiers.
[18:01] Writ_Keeper     right, which just calls extractSections in turn
[18:01] DanielK_WMDE    that's probably a good starting point for a bit of code spelunking.
[18:01] DanielK_WMDE    yep
[18:01] Writ_Keeper     that's what I'm looking at atm
Other possible areas of inquiry I'm considering are looking at how the page is generated, to see where that span ID comes from. (Knowing HTML, CSS, and JS is probably going to be necessary too, but if you don't already know that, it can be easily learned at the W3C tutorial sites.) Writ Keeper (t + c) 14:04, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

please tell me.

if there is not any admins than who controls the pages and can stop from adding inaccurate matirial.who has the authority to lock any page and stop other users to edit or adding extra material in whom we can complain about any issue.please tell me.

thanks.--Paramsinghantaal (talk) 14:24, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I didn't say there weren't any admins, just that Sitush isn't one. Admins have the technical ability to lock pages, but we don't do this to control what content people put into pages. We only lock pages to prevent vandalism or edit-warring from further damaging the encyclopedia. If you have a content issue, the right way to go about resolving it is to discuss it with Sitush on the article's talk page. If you've tried that and it hasn't worked, then there are a few dispute resolution venues on Wikipedia that you can make use of, such as third opinion or the dispute resolution noticeboard. As a general rule, admins, when acting as admins, do not control things on the article-content side; we only try to control behavioral issues, so that normal editors can deal with the content issues in peace. Writ Keeper (t + c) 14:33, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

can you help

i think you are an admin.i request you to help me in this had read allready about my problem.this is an important matter.--Paramsinghantaal (talk) 14:44, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am an admin. However, there is nothing I can do with the admin tools to help you. As I said, admins do not control content, we only keep the peace. The only opinion I can express about your content dispute is that of a normal editor like any other, and one who is totally uninformed about Indian caste issues at that. Nevertheless, my totally disinterested, outsider's view is that Sitush, as he says on the talk page, is right about one thing at least: you need to actually provide reliable sources that explicitly say what you're trying to put into the article. Wikipedia operates on the principle of verifiability, and if you want to make a change that is contested by other editors, you need to provide sources to back your claim and show that it is verifiable. Making vague references to other sources in the article and saying that readers should decide for themselves is not a substitute for providing concrete sources. Writ Keeper (t + c) 14:51, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

reliable source

you asked me to gave same reliable source.i requsted you to see the article about BANDA SINGH BAHADUR on this site.please read the section 'early life'.now please compare that how many historians are supporting the fact that i claiming and how many supporting sitush,s.the calculation is so is 8 to 2(these figures are just from this wikipedia itself).now what more reliable source you wants.before cheking it you asked sitush that what is his reliable source. now with whom you would like to go.the eight historians or two.--Paramsinghantaal (talk) 15:47, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not the person you should be making a case to. Talk to Sitush on the article's talk page. I can't help you. Writ Keeper (t + c) 15:55, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Hey WK, how did they manage this? I thought I semi-protected the article! Drmies (talk) 16:02, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
You did, but they had hit autoconfirmed that morning, at 8:46 UTC on March 21st, when their account turned four days old. Their tenth edit was at 2:47 UTC, on the 19th. (Deleted contribs count for the purpose of autoconfirmed, so you have to factor those in when determining the tenth edit; there were 5 deleted edits on the 17th.) Writ Keeper (t + c) 16:08, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
How'd you get so smart? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 16:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Swim Deep

thanks for talking sense

Genius needed

Hi Writ. It's your friendly technical unsophisticate Teahouse community organizer. I wanted to give you an update on some items from the Teahouse Wishlist and get your thoughts about how to move them forward.

Unrelated to you, we're working on a Badgeometer trophy case to show off people's earned badges. We're also working on adding an evidence (diff) parameter to all badge templates, so we can distinguish specific actions that led to a badge and count multiple badges of the same type that are earned by an editor. Really neat stuff involves a badge activity feed so we can livestream who gives and gets badges, right on the Teahouse main page or Q&A page. Jmorgan is going to be creating a spec sheet on how to do this with our badge data tables and we'll have that spec in the next month I hope. We also want to create a preload button on host profiles to award them a host badge, just like we do for Guest profiles. And in April we're going to start running some impact metrics using the database, and do a qualitative satisfaction survey about badges.

Ok, so that's all interesting background, but the part where I think you might be especially useful is this:

  • Just like there are talkback links for user signatures on the Q&A page, we'd like to create links which would automatically add a Great question or Great answer to a user's talk page.
  • If we can do that, we're curious if it's possible to "star" a question or answer which generated the badge, as a visual way to represent on the Q&A page that something great was done.

I think the first idea is possible with some userscript, preload magic. Would you be interested in giving it a shot? The second idea is probably much more complicated, but I'm curious what the technical challenges would be.

I hope you're doing well, Ocaasi t | c 19:00, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Remove autopatrolled from my account?

Hey Writ, I had been meaning to ask this for a while and your discussion gave me the impetus to actually do so. I'd prefer not to have the userright. My articles don't tend to be problematic, but I don't make enough to be a burden, and I would prefer to get at least one other eye on what I contribute. I only accepted it because at the time new articles were not being indexed until they were reviewed, and pre-New Pages Feed my articles were languishing unreviewed so they didn't appear in Google Searches. That is not a problem anymore, can you do whatever you need to do to take away autopatrolled? Ryan Vesey 21:52, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing; if you ever want it back, just ask. Writ Keeper (t + c) 21:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. Also in regards to autopatrolled, I initially brought this to Moonriddengirl because I thought it would be primarily a copyright issue, but it turned out that copyright wasn't a major factor in this situation. Can you check out User talk:Moonriddengirl#Close paraphrasing?/Remove autopatrolled status?. (I really wish administrators would be more careful in who these go to. I've also got a removal request going at User talk:Ironholds#Pull an autopatrolled tag?) If there weren't so many autopatrolled editors, I'd propose that they all be rechecked. Ryan Vesey 22:36, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I know we're not supposed to take offense at deletions, but I can't help it because you were so incredibly rude to do so reflexively, without warning.

Well, I spent some of my time today working on creating Wikipedia entries related to my DYING father's achievements in life, which are many and important. My hope was he could see them before he passes away. I created several entries for his pizza recipes and his personal history, and input some initial information with every intention of entering more information as I can gather it, and digitize it. Unfortunately, you rendered my investment of time and effort completely wasted by deleting my entries within minutes of creating them, absolutely without warning.

Apparently the Wikipedia community, which I just joined, is run by people with enough time on their hands to immediately make judgement calls about matters of which you have no basis to know, and who have little or no respect for the time and effort of others. I make this observation on the basis of your actions, and others who immediately pounced on posts which nobody would likely search for unless they were waiting, vulture like, for someone to post something, anything at all, new for them to attack.

So, yes, I am offended. I know that the guidelines ask nicely for us not to be, but I simply cannot help being offended when people go on offense against me, and especially when they do so as offensively as you have done, in deleting articles I wrote before even giving me - a brand new user - any guidance or opportunity to correct whatever you found objectionable (which I gather is the mere fact that I wasn't done yet).

I want to point out to you that the guidelines also say that there's no hurry. I'm pretty sure I read that. Well, that's clearly not the case, thanks to people behaving like you have.

For your information, Sir or Madam, I most definitely AM the son of Wayne Lynn who most definitely DID invent the recipes I listed, and my articles were NOT "hoaxes". If you had given me even a little time to provide the proof of that, I would have included it. But I wasn't to that stage in my approach to creating these articles yet.

I hope in the future you will bear this in mind, and not be so "trigger happy" in deleting entries immediately after they are made, without even giving the person a chance to do anything at all to preserve their effort, and address your concerns. Shame on you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edward L. Lynn (talkcontribs) 17:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, then, I really am. It wasn't in any way personal, although I can see why you would think it was. But your articles were indistinguishable from the numerous hoaxes that are submitted literally every day to Wikipedia. There were no sources, not even a token effort at sources, and I couldn't find anything remotely close to a source when I searched on my own. Without it, there's no way to tell that the articles aren't a hoax. I mean, you understand how ridiculous the moniker "Johnny Appleseed of American pizza" sounds to someone unfamiliar with the subject, right? And I don't mean that to belittle your father's accomplishments, I mean that it sounds like something someone made up. If you have reliable sources for these articles, then I'd be more than happy to restore them to you for you to work on. But without sources, I'm afraid I have to stand by my deletion.
If you wish, you can ask for a second opinion from any administrator you like (since an administrator will be able to view the deleted pages), and I'll abide by their decision. You can see a list of administrators here; I'd recommend checking the contribs of any admin you choose to make sure they're still around to answer your question. Alternatively, you may also ask for a formal review of my deletion at Deletion review; there are instructions on the page, but I'll help you with the process if you need it. Writ Keeper (t + c) 17:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Are any of the pizza recipes candidates for wikibooks? Ryan Vesey 18:23, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
"Shame on you"? I'm pretty sure that Writ Keeper was following appropriate policy, as far as I'm concerned here. TBrandley 18:27, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I don't know, maybe I was being precipitous. I'm confident in saying that these weren't deleted out of policy, but perhaps I should've simply tagged them and let another person look before deleting. Edward's laying it on a bit thick, I think, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. Writ Keeper (t + c) 18:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
@Ryan (and Radical Edward): Uh, I kinda doubt it; they're fairly nonspecific. But I'll restore them if either of you would like to go through them for that purpose. I'm not very familiar with Wikibooks. Writ Keeper (t + c)
@Writ_Keeper: Allow me to point out to you that the guidelines on page deletion state, "Page deletion is normally a last resort. If a dispute centers around a page's inclusion (e.g., because of questionable notability or where the subject has requested deletion), this is addressed via deletion discussions rather than by summary deletion." It would seem to me that the spirit of this would be to contact people with any concerns, and to give them a reasonable amount of time to address them. So, yes, I think you WERE a bit precipitous to say the least. But I do accept your apology. I hope in the future you won't be so quick to assume bad intentions on the part of others, that you will afford other users at least a minimal amount of the benefit of the doubt, that you will contact people and give them a reasonable amount of time to respond before taking actions you might regret, or they might, and I hope you will bear in mind the shortcomings of Wikipedia (no "save as draft" button comes to mind), and consider the possibility someone's articles may be a work in progress. Ed Lynn (talk) 18:53, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
You're right that there's no "save as draft", but there actually is an equivalent: instead of creating articles right away, you can create drafts in your userspace. To do this, create a page with the title "User:Edward L. Lynn/<article title>". So, in the case of, say, Reuben Pizza, you'd go to User:Edward L. Lynn/Reuben Pizza, create it, and write your article there. Then, once you're done, you can move it into mainspace. While it's still in your userspace (which is what the "User:Edward L. Lynn/" part means), it's not a "real" article; other articles shouldn't link to it, and it won't show up on Wikipedia searches. But on the other hand, you'll have time to work on it. I really wish that capability was better-advertised, but that's how it is, I guess. Writ Keeper (t + c) 18:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for that guidance! I wish you had just told me that in the first place, and I would have taken advantage of that. But, better late, than never. I'll do that. I agree with you, that needs to be better advertised. Ed Lynn (talk) 19:30, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I was a bit short with you, I'm sorry. If you need any more help, just let me know. Writ Keeper (t + c) 19:32, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I'll give you this, you have the fortitude to admit your mistakes, and that's rare these days. I appreciate that. And I certainly came on strong with my reaction, but then again, I'm old enough to remember the days before the internet, when letters were still relevant, and the strongly worded letter of reproach was an art form, and one I sought to master since it was (and still is) often the only way to get through to people. I do hope you learned a lesson from this, I know I did.

One other thing, I would appreciate it if you would edit the reason for deletion to change it from "blatant hoax" and replace it with something like "incomplete". Also, if you can send me the text you deleted for each entry, so I don't have to start over from scratch - if that's even possible - I would appreciate it. Ed Lynn (talk) 20:01, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it's not technically possible to go back and edit a log entry like that. I can restore the text to you, though. Writ Keeper (t + c) 20:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
As an admin, are you able to see my email address? If so, can you please send that to me at my email? If not, do you need it? Ed Lynn (talk) 20:06, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I can't see your email address; I can email you through the standard Wikipedia interface, but it's a bit clunky for sending large portions of text. Would restoring them directly into your userspace under their respective titles (like the example I provided before) work? If you like, you can then copy what you want from them and ask for them to be redeleted, or just work on them right where they are. Writ Keeper (t + c) 20:12, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
That should work. Thanks! Ed Lynn (talk) 20:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Okay, done; you can find a list of 'em at this page. Do keep in mind, though: they still need some serious sources. Also, you should take a look at and think about notability; the article about the man, if backed with good references, is probably notable, but the individual kinds of pizza might not be. Good luck, and happy editing! Writ Keeper (t + c) 20:57, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Is there a way to keep a template out of the article space?

Forgive my ignorance, but I believe what I am looking for is called a parser function. In any case, I wonder if one exists that could create a warning if {{Centered pull quote}} is used in the article space. If so, I plan on taking it to TfD and requesting that (it is currently technically allowed if the quote has already been used in the text). It's used in many articles right now, but is rarely used correctly. I don't feel it should be used in the article namespace at all. Ryan Vesey 00:31, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Yep, you can use any of the templates listed at Template:User_other#See_also; I'll set something up in the template's sandbox in just a second. —Theopolisme (talk) 00:38, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Hmph. Well, I was going to say that you need to combine a parser function and a magic word to the effect of {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACENUMBER}}|0||<template code>}}, but I guess Theo's thing works, too. Writ Keeper (t + c) 00:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
That works too ... work your magic, Writ... Just trying to be as obnoxious as possible. ;) —Theopolisme (talk) 00:48, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


So, are you willing to enter a good faith discussion about what happened at AN/I? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:16, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure. What's on your mind? I really don't see where the personal attack is in Mathsci's first post. Re-closing the ANI thread was uncool (and more importantly, shortsighted for the purposes of reducing drama), but I can see why it happened and don't think it's a serious infraction of anything. Writ Keeper (t + c) 01:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, let me rephrase that. I can see, in theory, how one could say that Mathsci's statement could be construed as a personal attack. But it is far from clear; in fact it is one of the biggest stretches I can think of. Hence the "worth mentioning" clause in my re-close. Your ANI report was not 100% completely baseless, but it's not worth discussing, I think. Writ Keeper (t + c) 01:21, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
I just want to be treated with respect. MatchSci could have easily (and still can) treat me like an equal by striking thru the offending phrases. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Okay, let's think about this (and I'm only thinking this as I write it, so it might not make a whole lot of sense): you consider what he said a clear personal attack. He considers it otherwise. We have no concrete policy on the subject, so we have nothing objective to go by.* You ask him to remove it in accordance with your perspective, which is fine. He declines, as from his perspective there's no reason to do so. But then, when you try to force him to withdraw his statement, are you really getting him to treat you as an equal? Or are you getting him to treat you as a superior, because your perspective is more right than his? Well, maybe not. Maybe you're just going to ANI because you think his perspective is unreasonable, which is fine, because not all perspectives are reasonable. But then, a number of people tell you that his perspective is not unreasonable, and your thread gets closed because of this. By reopening it and continuing to pursue it, are you still trying to be an equal? The more it's pursued in the face of opposition, the more it seems to be a struggle for dominance, rather than equity. Punishment, rather than redress of grievances.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, though; I do that sometimes. Maybe it's as simple as this: what's better for the project, causing a fuss over something so trivial, or letting it just go by? Certainly, there's a case to be made about a "toxic atmosphere" and all that. But is this comment really going to do that? I kinda doubt it's that serious. And while not having concrete rules on personal attacks is annoying in cases like these, it has an upside, too: we're not bound by precedent. By letting this one slide, we're not obligated to follow, or stretch, precedent and let the situation deteriorate. We can do the best we can in each situation as it comes, and I for one just don't think that continuing an ANI thread over something so minor is a good idea, what with the inevitable bickering and ill-will inherent in all such discussion on the fringes of NPA and civility. Writ Keeper (t + c) 01:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
*:The closest we have to applicable policy is "comment on the content, not the contributor", but it could be argued both ways on that score; that the "no surprise" bit is a comment about you, or that it's a comment on your past behavior; I would tend to argue the latter, but it could reasonably be debated
No, all you've done is help continue the toxic environment. This is why it keeps coming up again and again. The next time, it need not me or MathSci, but I want you to know that your actions helped continue the problem, and continue the drama which you very ironically claim not to like. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that is certainly a reasonable conclusion from your perspective, and I'm not going to begrudge you it. But my point is really this: why is your perspective valid and not others'? To horribly mangle a physics maxim: all frames of reference are relative; no one frame is privileged over another. You're allowed to think however you want to think, and welcome to it, but the fact is that several people have now told you that what Mathsci said was not a personal attack. Your opinion differs, obviously, and that's fine, but why does your opinion take priority over theirs, such that you would start an ANI thread and try to force its reopening? Is that not creating more drama than simply rolling with the punches, letting it slide off like water off a duck's back?
There is only drama because you chose to perpetuate it. When the thread was closed the first time, had you simply said to yourself, "Self, I guess other people are having a different reaction to Mathsci's comment; maybe it's worht reconsidering?", the drama would have been over. You chose to do otherwise, which I'm not casting judgement on, but I don't think that, between reclosing the thread and reopening it, my action was the one to create the drama.Writ Keeper (t + c) 14:53, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
It's a reasonable conclusion from any perspective. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia for heaven's sake. Do you honestly think that personal attacks are allowed in such an environment? The kind of stuff that goes down at Wikipedia would never be allowed at a real office environment. Your actions are part of the problem, not part of the solution. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:07, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
It's evidently not a reasonable conclusion from all perspectives, as there are several reasonable people who have concluded otherwise. I don't honestly think personal attacks are allowed in this environment, so we're in agreement there, and I've never suggested otherwise. Where we (and others) disagree is whether Mathsci's comment actually was a personal attack. The ambiguity I'm talking about is in deciding what constitutes a personal attack and what doesn't. I would additionally submit for thought that stifling legitimate criticism under the guise of personal attacks contributes to a different yet equally toxic environment: one of stagnation and decay. I do not assert that such was your goal, because I think that you genuinely believe that Mathsci's comment was a personal attack, even though I don't agree. I bring it up because it's a reason to not accept the "lowest common denominator" of comments that could be considered personal attacks as attacks themselves, to evaluate reports of personal attacks closely, and to decline action on borderline cases where appropriate. Writ Keeper (t + c) 15:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

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Hello, Writ Keeper. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived. Message added by Pratyya (Hello!) 03:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.

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For this answer --Tito Dutta (contact) 06:03, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Barnstar of Humour Hires.png The Barnstar of Good Humor
Since a good laugh is all you're going to get tonight, sucka. Drmies (talk) 03:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Auto Closing script

Rather epic failure, not sure what needs fixed. [9] Werieth (talk) 00:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Damn. Which thread were you trying to close? Writ Keeper (t + c) 00:50, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I figured out the problem; it's the sections within the template that's throwing off the index. Fix is in the works. Writ Keeper (t + c) 01:45, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
All right, it should be fixed. Writ Keeper (t + c) 01:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

TeaHouse scripts import breaking all my JavaScript.

Hey Writ, I'm trying to load all four of the JavaScript files for the TeaHouse that were recommended using Mozilla's reference:

importScripts('User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/teahouseUtility.js', 'User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/teahouseTalkback.js', 'User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/teahouseTalkbackLink.js', 'User:Ocaasi/WikiLoveinstallscript.js');

and there is something wrong causing none of my scripts to work. Going to comment them out for now, hope you can help. Face-smile.svg User:Technical 13   ( C • M • Click to learn how to view this signature as intended ) 12:32, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, the importScript function used in user js pages is a Mediawiki function, not a Mozilla function, and there's no Mediawiki function for loading more than one script at the same time. A Mozilla function is not going to be able to meaningfully interpret a Wikipedia page title like 'User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/teahouseTalkback.js' anyway. Just use an importScript() for each of the Teahouse ones, rather than importing them all at once. Writ Keeper (t + c) 13:43, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Scripting question for you...

Do you know of, or would it be difficult to make, a script similar to User:Writ_Keeper/Scripts/teahouseUtility.js that would drop-down a menu of smiley / emoticon images that I could just click on the image and it would add the proper template to the page? This tab would only be available when editing talk pages, of course. You seem to know more about the mw. JavaScripting (I'm trying to learn, but they do some weird stuffs) than I do. I'm not asking you to outright create it for me, just point me to the references so I can figure it out and create it myself (as a learning adventure). Once it is completed, I might like to offer it as a Gadget, but that bridge shall be crossed once upon it is reached. Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. User:Technical 13   ( C • M • Click to learn how to view this signature as intended ) 00:35, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Basically, as you can see in the source for the Teahouse utility, the starting point is adding a link to the actions menu through the addPortletLink MediaWiki function, and then attaching a click event handler to the link you just added to provide the functionality. I pretty much just poke around the Mediawiki site to see what useful stuff is there; I don't have any one page there that's more useful than another, but mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript or mw:ResourceLoader/Default modules might be good places to start. I also use JQuery a lot, so of course that API is a great thing to have open on another tab for reference. As far as a dropdown submenu, I don't think Mediawiki really does that. You could probably implement your own with an onhover handler, but that could be tricky.
Honestly, though, doing it the way the utility does it and adding it to the user actions menu is probably the wrong approach, from a UI design perspective. It's too far separated from the edit box, and probably takes too much time to display the choices and choose one. What I'd suggest is adding a new toolbar below the current edit toolbar (the div with id of toolbar) and add a button for each smiley, probably using the smiley's image as the button itself, and then adding a click handler to each of those for the functionality. Then you need to insert text into the textarea at the cursor location; that's not something I've done, but I'd usually just search StackOverflow or some other places for ideas; this one looks promising.
Sorry if that's not much help; if there's anything else you think I could help with, just ask. Writ Keeper (t + c) 03:51, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
I wonder if there is some way I can add a custom set to the MediaWiki:Edittools section and have the images insert the template text at the character location? User:Technical 13   ( C • M • Click to learn how to view this signature as intended ) 05:58, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Take a look at User talk:Σ/Editnotice, where he just uses <charinsert>Σ</charinsert>—the CharInsert extension seems like exactly what you're looking for. —Theopolisme (talk) 06:01, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Not sure how I can manipulate that to show icons like Face-smile.svg, Face-sad.svg, Face-wink.svg, ... and have it insert the proper code. {{Smiley|1}}, {{Smiley|2}}, {{Smiley|3}}, ... User:Technical 13   ( C • M • Click to learn how to view this signature as intended ) 06:06, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── My mistake; didn't realize that it didn't let you show icons...that's a pain...unless..could you just use some javascript to replace the <charinsert></charinsert> raw links with image links? —Theopolisme (talk) 06:11, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Here's what the raw HTML generated by the tag looks like:
<a onclick="insertTags('Á','','');return false" href="#">Á</a>
I'm by no means a javascript genius, but it seems like it'd be possible to find links that met this format (and had, say, a given value for insertTags()) and then appropriately restyle them..or even just write a new function to call insertTags? —Theopolisme (talk) 06:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
I see something totally diff when I select "Latin"
<p style="display: inline;" id="Latin"><a href="#">A</a> <a href="#">a</a> <a href="#">Á</a> <a href="#">á</a> ...SNIP... <a href="#">ə</a> &nbsp; <a href="#">{{Unicode|}}</a> </p>
So, I could probably change the wiki markup section (I'm too use to typing all of those out and I always forget it is there) to replace the entire
$('p#Wiki markup').html('<a href="{{Smiley|1}}"><img src="(file location)" width="20px" height="20px" /></a> ...SNIP... ');
User:Technical 13   ( C • M • Click to learn how to view this signature as intended ) 06:31, 30 March 2013 (UTC)


I had no idea that Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations had so many cases. Wanna come help? It's useful work, not too difficult, and more fun than cleaning the toilet. Drmies (talk) 02:07, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse Talkback script not working on this computer

Your Teahouse Talkback script is working for me at work, but it has stopped working here at home (I can't see the TB links). I guess that the loss of this function is connected with some software update on this machine; I am now running Internet Explorer 10, and I wonder whether there is some preference that needs setting again? Any advice would be appreciated. - David Biddulph (talk) 08:43, 31 March 2013 (UTC)


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Hello, Writ Keeper. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge.
Message added 12:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Ushau97 talk 12:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Heads up

Bearing in mind your recent comment that you'd rather not block someone twice, I've left a note with Floq regarding the re-emergence of Lowkeyvision. Alas, Floq seems to be offline for the weekend but doubtless will look in before too long has passed. - Sitush (talk) 11:39, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

No worries, this has been resolved with an indef/sysop-only talk page access type of arrangement, and the new sock was blocked within minutes. - Sitush (talk) 00:27, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
*sigh* I suppose it was inevitable. They were just not in a mindset compatible with editing collaboratively. Writ Keeper (t + c) 13:16, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


(please note that enwiki is not my native wiki - i began being a bit more active here pretty recently, my native wiki is hewiki): just curious: what does it mean when you wrote "TL;DR: per kipod. " in WP:ANI? this is a genuine question, meant mostly to satisfy my curiousity - i truly did not understand. some searches brought me to believe that "tl;dr" means "too long; didn't read", which i find cute, but i'm not sure what it meant in this context? did you think my $.02 was too long? or someone else's? this Q. is not of utmost importance - i'm just curious about the lingo. thx, peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 18:36, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Of course, no worries. I probably should've been more clear. I meant that my own post was over-long, so if somebody didn't feel like reading my huge wall of text, my brief summary of my own post was "per kipod", since you pretty much said exactly what I meant in a much more concise way. Perhaps something like "TL;DR summary:" might've been clearer. But yeah, I meant that my own post was TL, and that I wouldn't blame anyone if they DR. :) Writ Keeper (t + c) 18:40, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
thanks for the explanation... still learning the ropes here, and your assistance is appreciated. peace. קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 18:55, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

General Consensus

I would like to ask your opinion on another subject. I go by a nickname of "ShoeMaker" most of the places I edit, and have registered a separate account with that name on other wikis in case I refer to myself as that. I do not edit from the account and everything there is a redirect to my main. I've been hesitant to do that here because I'm afraid I'll just get blocked and accused of "abusing multiple accounts" even though the account had 0 edits (I'd even do the redirects from this account) by someone like Hex. Am I justified in feeling like this, or do you think I would be okay doing that? User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 00:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it would be okay to do that, and no, in my experience, Hex is not looking for a pretense to block you. Writ Keeper (t + c) 00:57, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

The help i require

Could i have some help formatting my userpage and/or add a picture to it? Wertercatt (talk) 21:46, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure, what do you need? Writ Keeper (t + c) 21:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse poke

Hi Writ. My apologies if you already saw this and chose not to respond, for any reason. Just wanted to check: User_talk:Writ_Keeper/Archives/6#Genius_needed. Best, Ocaasi t | c 21:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey, Ocaasi! Sorry, I meant to reply to that, but it slipped my mind. Naively, the first thing should be pretty easy; it's not really fundamentally different from the talkback script. Unfortunately, the talkback script doesn't really detect signatures per se; it detects links to user talk pages. So, if someone adds a link to a user talk page in the body of their question, that'll still get picked up by the script. It might be possible to do both in one through a preloaded template; it'd be easy enough to add these templates automatically as part of the ask a question and reply to question widgets. If we do a template to supply the front-end, and then have JS for the backend, that might work. The problem with that, of course, is that it depends on people using those widgets; I sure don't. Maybe J-Mo could add a HostBot task to automatically add the templates to anyone's posts that are missing them.
Basically, the way I see it working is: we make a template or two that act as the "star"; they could be a button that fills in and posts the badge to the user's talk page when you click it. The template code would look something like <span class="starButton" username="(poster's username)" sectionname = "(section name)"> {{#if: {{{starred|}}}|(unstarred template code)|(starred template code)}}</span>. That should provide the Javascript all the info it needs. Basically, the bottom line is that it's pretty tricky, but probably doable. Writ Keeper  00:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Peace Barnstar Hires.png The Barnstar of Diplomacy
I leaving this to make sure that you know that I appreciate your patience with me. I know I can be a stubborn fool at times, but I don't see sticking to my beliefs and virtues as a bad thing most of the time. User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 15:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)


Thanks for reverting the removal of the free image. I guess I saw the re-insertion with a extremely similar name and thought they where the same file. Werieth (talk) 17:45, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep, no worries; it fooled me, too, at first. As I just said on your talk page, you were maybe laying it on just a little bit too thick, but your intentions were good, and you weren't wrong. So, time for a cup of tea and a relax all around, yeah? :) Writ Keeper  17:49, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


I find myself wanting to create a "Frog Blast the Vent Core" Barnstar for quality comments at ANI. Well stated. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 18:09, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Heh, thanks, but as with most witty things I say, I can't claim to be its author. It's a nonsense phrase from an old computer game called Marathon, where some of the enemies were suicide-bomber alien clones disguised as civilians; the only way to tell them apart was through their speech. Real civilians would only shout "They're everywhere!", while the simulacrums would yell various phrases with various degrees of comprehensibility; "Frog blast the vent core!" was by far the most memorable. ;) Writ Keeper  18:23, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I can see why! And that's another game to add to my list, if I can track down a copy. Thanks, UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 18:47, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Actually, that should be pretty easy; I believe Bungie released the source code and resources for all three games, and you should be able to download and play them for free. I believe the fan-rewritten engine I used to play it last was called Aleph One; that's probably the place to start looking. (It's a trilogy, by the way; all three are well worth playing.) Writ Keeper  18:50, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Just wanted to note that after seeing that comment I came here to compliment you on your excellent taste in both games and references. ~ Amory (utc) 20:45, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for an excellent admin!

Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
Thank you so much for TPSing another admin's talk page and taking immediate action to revdelete harassing edits towards a child at Nashua High School North! You're a great administrator. (talk) 20:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, 76! <3 Writ Keeper  20:58, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

How do I view the edit filter catches?

User:Mmxcanvas is another sock of the wahooart guy. I tried to find his edits in the filter log, which I think is here, but nothing showed up. Am I trying to view it wrong or is something wrong with the filter? Ryan Vesey 03:50, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Actually, considering two of the most recent editors found at the SPI, is there any way for a bot to find a list of all pages created with a link to wahooart where the page creator isn't currently blocked and make a list of those creators? Ryan Vesey 03:57, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
Well, there's nothing wrong with the regex; when I run it through batch testing, it picks up the edits. It might be hitting the condition limit or something; once an edit hits the edit filter condition limit, it isn't tested against any more filters, and mine is the last filter of them all. Not sure what can be done to fix that. Writ Keeper  04:31, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Frieda and Diego Rivera

Can you provide the link for the ANI discussion of the blocked editor who created this now deleted article? I am not questioning the decision per se, but the user name and link is not in the deletion summary, and since i innocently helped the article along at one point, id like to know the details behind this. thanks in advance for your attention, if you can reply at my talk page id appreciate it.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. The ANI thread is here: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Kavdiaravish/User:Stonex201. If you'd like the article restored to your userspace, that shouldn't be of a problem; just let me know. It's just that all of this user's articles have been mostly copyvios (from books, which makes them more difficult to detect), and what isn't tends to be not worth saving. Writ Keeper  03:34, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
I looked into it, and I don't think this individual work is notable enough for an article. i m not a fan of giving most museum holdings individual articles.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:07, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

DRN organisers

Hello. I am just letting you know that I've made a proposal to create a rotating DRN organiser-style role that would help with the day-to-day running of DRN. As you are a listed volunteer at DRN, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this, and the other open proposals at DRN. You can read more about it here. Thanks! Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 00:19, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Your input and guidance would be appreciated

Hi Writ! :) If possible, can you please comment in a disucssion I'm having on Drmies' talk page. I think I may have stumped him, so he's looking for input from others to help us on this matter. Thanks! -- (talk) 03:43, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Heh, this is one of those weird things where there probably is no "right" answer. I've replied on Drmies's talk page. Writ Keeper  04:29, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! Yunshui closed it. -- (talk) 08:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

ANI - User:Justlettersandnumbers Request

Hello Writ. Could you quickly review and possibly close WP:ANI#User:Justlettersandnumbers please? Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 15:44, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Share the cookies

Christmas Cookies Plateful.JPG Here's a plate full of cookies to share!
Hi Writ Keeper/Archives/6, here are some delicious cookies to help brighten your day! However, there are too many cookies here for one person to eat all at once, so please share these cookies with at least two other editors by copying {{subst:Sharethecookies}} to their talk pages. Enjoy! AutomaticStrikeout (TCSign AAPT) 20:24, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


Sorry for trimming your stuff off Bish's talk page; you kept edit-conflicting me, and my shorter version is simpler to read. DS (talk) 15:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, no worries, do what you gotta do. As you saw, I was twisting myself up enough already. Writ Keeper  15:17, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


Possibly I made some mess unwillingly. I wanted add my concerns regarding Rouge administrator Future Perfect at Sunrise for his record. I doing it first time. The following is the text: "Yes, Mr. Future Perfect at Sunrise s blocking freedom of speech on Talk Page. See his restriction for Talk Page of Nicolaus Copernicus. This is just blocking users with inconvenient arguments for his POV, and busting up the investigation against and others although I did not edited the article but only added historical facts to conversation. See the unnecessary investigation @ [10]"

Also I was attempting to use the Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. the first time. Seems to be wrong way and unsuccessful. I an not edit the Mr. Future Perfect talk page by some reason. Seems to me he restricted it for IPs. I will be appreciate for you help or at least suggestions. -- (talk) 17:06, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Like I said, it seems that you grabbed an old version of the page for some reason; this can happen on occasion due to technical issues. All you should need to do is this: click on this link. It should take you to the latest version of the Administrator's Noticeboard/Incidents page. Once you're there, you can click on the "New section" tab at the top of the page. This will bring you to a new screen; just type in the message you want to leave and hit "save page"; it'll do the rest for you.
That said, I should let you know a few things. I haven't looked into your issue to see what's going on, nor have I had any significant dealings with Future Perfect at Sunrise. But generally speaking, I can tell you that using terms like "freedom of speech" won't get you very far at Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a private website; there is no right to freedom of speech. It is indeed against the rules for an admin to protect a page to benefit their point of view, but usually when these kinds of complaints surface, it's a misunderstanding of the admin's intentions and Wikipedia policy on the part of the plaintiff (so to speak), rather than true abuse of the tools granted to admins. Nevertheless, you're free to post a thread on ANI to have their actions reviewed. Writ Keeper  17:16, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!-- (talk) 17:24, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Vitruvian Barnstar Hires.png The Technical Barnstar
Thanks so much for your awesome commonHistory.js script. I made some instructions encouraging education program instructors to install it. Here's a comment we got back from one of them: This is incredible. What a time/work saver! Well done! Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 19:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
You're very welcome! :) Writ Keeper  19:19, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I am not a number, I am a free man

And I thought I was the only person who had watched that show... —Theopolisme (talk) 19:16, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

"I will not be pushed, pulled, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own." Great show. I got the DVD box set a while ago. Writ Keeper  19:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
DVD box sets? Soooooo 2009. Talk about archaic southerners. ;) —Theopolisme (talk) 23:05, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


It was inevitable, eh? Going through the archives there was a discussion two years ago to reduce it from 75. There wasn't much activity, but 50 was kind of settled on. Anyway, the big problem was mainly solved when some sysops went through most of the qualified editors. I wouldn't say no to another discussion on the threshold, but for me personally 5 is far too low. A lot of the requests at WFPERM are populated mainly by stubs, which while fine often involve only a couple of references; 5 is just too easy to game. Maybe after all this has died? ~ Amory (utc) 19:57, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I figured it wouldn't stick. The 5 threshold was fairly arbitrary on my part, but if we're going to discuss it, I would suggest we try to align that expectation with the content-creation expectations for an admin. Like I said, I had two DYKs at my RfA and that's it, so even at 5, I was considered qualified for admin, but not autopatrolled! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about when I talk about fairness and equity: in this instance, it seems like we're penalizing people for not wanting to be an admin. Perhaps what we need is a more nuanced guideline that takes article quality into account (although that in itself could be a nightmare). Writ Keeper  20:07, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
The way I see it is that since Autopatrolled can be given out by any single sysop, a somewhat reasonable barrier exists because that's the only vetting they're going to get. However one feels about the process the very least we can say about RfA is that it is usually a quite thorough airing of grievances. Most of the opposes to the proposal hinge on the view that the +sysop implicitly involves an exceptional to the 50 rule of thumb, and many at RfA are quite adamant that exceptional measures require exceptional behavior. I think there'd be a better chance of getting a 30 article target than asking RfA editors to change en masse. ~ Amory (utc) 20:21, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Well, I meant that we change this number to whatever the RfA number is, but it's a discussion to be had for another day. :) My rage has blown over, and now I just feel tired and want everyone to walk away on good terms (like that'll happen). :P Writ Keeper  20:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Maybe I'm just too demanding. Maybe I'm just like my father, too bold. Maybe you're just like my mother; she's never satisfied. Why do we scream at each other? This is what it sounds like when the doves cry. Writ Keeper  21:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Game. Blouses. ~ Amory (utc) 22:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
  • If I had my way, editors could only retain autopatrolled if they were averaging an article a day. Any less than that and they shouldn't have it. If someone creates an article a week or an article a month, but occasionally creates 300 articles in a 5 hour period, they should apply for autopatrolled before their mass of articles are created. Ryan Vesey 04:01, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for defending my talk page. I was tempted to instruct the IP contributor that the correct spelling is "fellatio", but I concluded that such a comment might be equivalent to waving a red flag in front of a raging bull. And that led to curiosity about whether or not bulls are color blind. And then I started thinking about Hemingway's remark that the only truly masculine sports are bullfighting, auto racing and mountaineering. And then I had to reconcile my deep love for mountaineering with my abhorrence for bull fighting. And then I forgot about the spelling lesson. But thanks anyway. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:58, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm actually surprised Hemingway only put one sport that guarantees a minimum of one bloody, brutal, senseless death of a living being every match in the top three; I thought for sure that hunting would make the list, too. Live and learn. (As an aside, I was actually tempted to help the IP out with his unblock request myself, but decided against it.) Writ Keeper  04:16, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Okay, is it weird that, after rereading my post, I have absolutely zero recollection of typing the words "live and learn"? Writ Keeper  04:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
As it is late at night where I live (though morning somewhere), it is perfectly OK that you typed "live and learn" without remembering it. After all, it is a good three word observation of the best of the human condition. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC)