User talk:YMB29

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Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

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Meelar (talk) 06:01, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


Contents

Welcome![edit]

If you are interested in Russia-related themes, you may want to check out the Russian Portal, particularly the Portal:Russia/New article announcements and Portal:Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board. You may even want to add these boards to your watchlist.

Again, welcome! abakharev 05:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Civility[edit]

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Edit summaries like reverted edits by a nazi sympathizer are unacceptable abakharev 05:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Relax[edit]

Calm down! "Nazi Symphatisator"? "Sily"? You will get blocked is that what you want??

"Nazi Sympathizer" was two years ago. -YMB29 (talk) 01:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Я тоже Русский, и согласен с тобой! Ну чтобы выжить в Википедии надо искать нетральность. Ну выругаешь ты его, и что? Тебя блокируют нахрен и все, он будет радоваться! Нужно тебе это?? Культурно спорь, даже не с культурными людьми. Это всего лишь Википедия. Спокойнее! Знаешь сколько тут западников которые с радостью заблакируют всех Руских и привратят Википедию в свой агитационный ларек? Ну дашь им причину блокировать тебя! Кому от этого легче станет? Спокойнее! Тебя никто не торопит. Kostan1 (talk) 22:18, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Я знаю, но за "silly" меня не заблокируют. -YMB29 (talk) 01:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Please enter the talk page of the article. Kostan1 (talk) 11:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I uploaded the new version[edit]

Hope you agree on it. Kostan1 (talk) 11:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I owe you an apology[edit]

I'm sorry for taking you as the POV pusher in the article and for speaking to you with rudness. The reverts that Biophys just did, while at the same time you chose the talk page to bring up the points you don't agree with clearly showed me who is the POV pusher. I'm sorry. Kostan1 (talk) 13:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry you were not rude. I don't know what we are going to do with Biophys; talking to him is like banging your head against the wall... -YMB29 (talk) 00:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Please bring a link saying the NKVD Order No. 00689 lasted only for two years. Kostan1 (talk) 13:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I linked the article in my version and on the talk page. NKVD Order No. 00689 changed NKVD Order No. 00486. -YMB29 (talk) 00:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

A barnstar (your first?)[edit]

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
For helping to bring the Human rights in the Soviet Union to an NPOV, for being civil and using the talk page for things you don't agree with, for reverting a user who clearly pushes his NPOV into the nutral version, even though you yourself don't agree with many things in it. In other words, for maturity. Continue to be a great user! Kostan1 (talk) 11:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


Thank you. -YMB29 (talk) 04:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Let's talk?[edit]

Hi YMB29, maybe we should talk a little instead of edit waring? Is that you who edits in Russian WP as Deerhunter?Biophys (talk) 01:50, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

No it is not me.
If you want to finally talk then I am waiting for you to do so on the article's talk page. -YMB29 (talk) 01:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Maybe later. I just wonder: you are doing almost nothing but reverts in a single article for the entire month. Do not you have anything better to do? You apparently came here from Russian WP. So, what are your real interests?Biophys (talk) 02:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
I am not from Russian WP.
Look at what you are doing in that article. I can't add anything to the article because of your senseless reverting. If you can't discuss, then maybe you should stay away instead of always reverting. -YMB29 (talk) 16:17, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be best if we both edited something else. But this is up to you. Regards,Biophys (talk) 18:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
For some time maybe, but any future changes or reverts will have to be explained if asked. -YMB29 (talk) 18:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Arbitration case regarding the Eastern European mailing list[edit]

The Arbitration Committee has passed a motion to open a case to investigate allegations surrounding a private Eastern European mailing list. The contents of the motion can be viewed here.

You have been named as one of the parties to this case. Please take note of the explanations given in italics at the top of that section; if you have any further questions about the list of parties, please feel free to contact me on my talk page.

The Committee has explicitly requested that evidence be presented within one week of the case opening; ie. by September 25. Evidence can be presented on the evidence subpage of the case; please ensure that you follow the Committee instructions regarding the responsible and appropriate submission of evidence, as set out in the motion linked previously, should you choose to present evidence.

Please further note that, due to the exceptional nature of this case (insofar as it centers on the alleged contents of a private mailing list), the Committee has decided that the normal workshop format will not be used. The notice near the top of the cases' workshop page provides a detailed explanation of how it will be used in this case.

For the Arbitration Committee,
Daniel (talk) 01:16, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Editing restrictions[edit]

Please be informed that we are both placed under editing restrictions.Biophys (talk) 17:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Nope, this is not true. Only members of the secret email list are topic banned. The list of members is here: [1]. You can continue editing. Offliner (talk) 08:55, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know. Looks like Biophys does not want me to edit because he can't revert like he is used to. -YMB29 (talk) 16:45, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom clerk warning[edit]

You have recently engaged in a series of posts on ArbCom pages which contained highly charged assertions and hence breached the specific guidelines on user conduct handed down by ArbCom concerning the EEML case. You are thus receiving a first and final warning. Any further misconduct will result in a ban from the relevant ArbCom pages until the conclusion of the EEML case (except in direct response to an ArbCom question). Violation of that ban will result in blocking. Manning (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Read, read, read....[edit]

You have very certain opinions in the talk page of the Winter War. I see you are interested in Finnish-Russian wars, so I suggest you read some books written of these subjects. It would help as all, as there would be a necessity to explain military history basics. As the Finnish historian Timo Vihavainen said a week ago in an interviews, there is not so much different view of historical event between Finnish and Russian historians. Only some marginal Stalinists (he used the word, I would use some softer title) still dispute with historians. For a start, you could watch television documentry (spoken Russian, with Finnish subtitles) by Russian Televisio Channel in You Tube [2]. It has 10 episodes, total about 1 hour. Peltimikko (talk) 21:22, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

All those who don't share the Finnish view are Stalinists...
Anyway, thanks for the link, but what was the point of this message? I am not the one who is making POVed, uninformed edits or comments. -YMB29 (talk) 00:08, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
I am sorry if I gave impression of that only the Finnish is right. Opening of the Moscow Archieves in the 1990s has generally backed the Finnish view of the Winter War, but also deepends our understanding of the war. However, as I have wrote in the Continuation War's talk page, the Finnish historians have also have to changed their earlier views. For example, earlier the Finnish histography saw the Continuation War as a separate war between Finland and the USSR, but in 1990s and especially in 2000s, historians, especially younger, see the war and an ally with Germany against the USSR. Peltimikko (talk) 08:02, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Well yes I agree that there is a better understanding now. However, there is still a lot that can be debated and subject to different interpretations. Are the Finnish archives open like the former Soviet ones? -YMB29 (talk) 15:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
The Finnish archives are located in "Arkistolaitos" [3] (trivia: before 2008 there was the War Archives (Sota-arkisto), but became a part of bigger The National Archives Service (=Arkistolaitos)). Generally speaking the Finnish archives has been open for years, especially after the Soviet Union collapse, but there is an excetion: a couple of years ago the Finnish Defence Forces release couple of banned photos which can be seen in Commons (they were either too cruel or politically incorrect). Peltimikko (talk) 23:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for the info. -YMB29 (talk) 15:44, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Re : Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern European mailing list[edit]

This arbitration case has been closed, and the final decision may be viewed at the link above.

  • User:Piotrus resigned the administrator tools during the case proceedings and may only seek to regain adminship by a new request for adminship or by request to the Arbitration Committee.
  • User:Piotrus is banned for three months. At the conclusion of his ban, a one year topic ban on articles about Eastern Europe, their talk pages, and any related process discussion, widely construed, shall take effect.
  • User:Digwuren is banned for one year. He is directed to edit Wikipedia from only a single user account, and advise the Arbitration Committee of the name of the account that he will use. Should he not advise the committee by the end of the one year ban, he will remain indefinitely banned until a single account is chosen.
  • User:Digwuren is placed on a one year topic ban on articles about Eastern Europe, their talk pages, and any related process discussion, widely construed. This shall take effect following the expiration of both above mentioned bans.
  • The following users are topic banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about same, widely construed, for one year:
  • User:Jacurek is topic banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about same, widely construed, for six months.
  • User:Tymek is strongly admonished for having shared his account password. He is directed to keep his account for his own exclusive use, and not to allow any other person to use it under any circumstance.
  • The editors sanctioned above (Piotrus, Digwuren, Martintg, Tymek, Jacurek, Radeksz, Dc76, Vecrumba, Biruitorul, Miacek) are prohibited from commenting on or unnecessarily interacting with Russavia on any page of Wikipedia, except for purposes of legitimate and necessary dispute resolution.
  • All the participants to the mailing list are strongly admonished against coordinating on-wiki behavior off-wiki and directed to keep discussion of editing and dispute resolution strictly on wiki and in public. All editors are reminded that the editorial process and dispute resolution must take place on Wikipedia itself, using the article talk pages and project space for this purpose. No discussion held off-wiki can lead to a valid consensus, the basis of our editorial process. Off-wiki coordination is likely to lead to echo chambers where there is a false appearance of neutrality and consensus.

For the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 17:42, 22 December 2009 (UTC) - Discuss this

Re:[edit]

I saw your comment about me in Human rights in the Soviet Union. Next time, if you are going to complain about me personally, please do it at appropriate noticeboards, such as AE, ANI, etc. Thank you.Biophys (talk) 15:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

With regard to this your comment. Remember, WP:NPA, please.Biophys (talk) 22:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Now I can only quote the words by the sock of Mvei (see above at your talk page): "Ну выругаешь ты его, и что? Тебя блокируют нахрен и все, он будет радоваться! Нужно тебе это?? Культурно спорь, даже не с культурными людьми." Do you agree with Kostan1? I do.Biophys (talk) 05:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Are you trying to provoke me into saying something? -YMB29 (talk) 05:40, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I responded at article talk page because this is mostly about the content, at least on my part.Biophys (talk) 22:30, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I asked an advice here. Biophys (talk) 17:14, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

AE[edit]

I made a suggestion here. You may respond if you wish. Thank you.Biophys (talk) 13:16, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Russavia-Biophys[edit]

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Russavia-Biophys/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Russavia-Biophys/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ~ Amory (utc) 05:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Please be informed that I commented here.Biophys (talk) 22:28, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Russavia-Biophys[edit]

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following is a summary of the remedies enacted:

  • Russavia (talk · contribs) is prohibited from commenting on or unnecessarily interacting with editors from the EEML case, except in the case of necessary dispute resolution.
  • Vlad fedorov (talk · contribs), Ellol (talk · contribs), and YMB29 (talk · contribs) are banned from editing articles about the Soviet Union and former Soviet Republics, and all related articles, broadly construed, for a period of no less than 6 months. At the end of 6 months, they may each apply to have their ban reviewed by the Arbitration Committee.
  • Biophys (talk · contribs) is banned from editing articles about the Soviet Union and former Soviet Republics, and all related articles, broadly construed, for a period of no less than 1 year. At the end of 1 year, Biophy may apply to have the ban reviewed by the Arbitration Committee.
  • Consecutive to that topic ban, Biophys is restricted to 1 revert per week per article in the topic area for 1 year.
  • Russavia and Vlad federov are admonished for posting personal information of other editors.
  • Editors wishing to edit in the areas dealt with in this case are advised to edit carefully, to adopt Wikipedia's communal approaches (including appropriate conduct, dispute resolution, neutral point of view, no original research and verifiability) in their editing, and to amend behaviors that are deemed to be of concern by administrators. An editor unable or unwilling to do so may wish to restrict their editing to other topics, in order to avoid sanctions.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ~ Amory (utc) 22:08, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Discuss this

Editing restrictions and ongoing discussions[edit]

I'm sorry to hear you have been banned from editing or rather participating to the ongoing discussions on the Continuation War and the related topics. I'm rather dubious that making an appeal for getting you 'rights' to at least participate in the ongoing talk page discussions would do much good after reading the arbitration decisions. Though we have been mainly disagreeing on topics and occasionally i felt nearly like coming into blows that is pretty much exactly what should be expected when discussing a contested topic with able opponent.

I could still make an appeal for at least talk page rights or rather rights to continue and finish the currently ongoing discussions if you think that would be any of any help. Not sure where and how to do it though - I'm not really familiar with wiki arbitration system. - Wanderer602 (talk) 16:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your concern. Yes even though we had intense arguments we could still come to an agreement and compromise (which was impossible with that other user).
Looks like the decision won't be changed now. Don't know why they made it; I guess they were in a rush to close the case... I asked about posting on talk pages and continuing the discussion, but this is not allowed also.
In a couple of months I can ask for a reconsideration of the topic ban. -YMB29 (talk) 20:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Arbitration motion regarding Eastern European mailing list[edit]

Following a motion at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment:

Remedy 20 of Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern European mailing list ("Miacek topic banned") is lifted.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, NW (Talk) 00:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Discuss this

Arbitration motion regarding Russavia-Biophys[edit]

Following the request for clarification that you filed at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment on 21 April 2011, the Arbitration Committee has resolved that:

Remedy 8 ("YMB29 topic banned") of [Russavia-Biophys] is terminated, effective immediately. YMB29 is placed on a one-revert-per-day restriction in the relevant topic area ("articles about the Soviet Union and former Soviet Republics, and all related articles") for a period of one year. YMB29 is reminded to abide by the principles discussed in the decision, as well as all applicable Wikipedia policies and guidelines, in his future editing, and that he remains subject to discretionary sanctions under the terms of related decisions should he violate them.

For the Arbitration Committee, AGK [] 12:17, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Discuss this


Your use of templates[edit]

From Template:Disputed & Template:Dubious and from other templates you prefer to post across the articles... All actually require the person making the claim to actually post description of the issue to the talk page. They are not for flagging items that an editor simply thinks might be incorrect. - Wanderer602 (talk) 16:49, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Again, please refer to Template:Dubious, Template:Synthesis, Template:Or before using them. Thank you. - Wanderer602 (talk) 07:31, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
We are discussing the issues on the talk page, so they are valid. -YMB29 (talk) 15:00, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Actually you should mark clearly in the talk what exactly in the tagged section is the problem, blanketing the article with tags and then stating that discussion is ongoing without clearly stating what exactly was the problem with the tagged sections is clearly not the way usage of those templates. - Wanderer602 (talk) 16:04, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Notification of ANI (incident) report[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. - Wanderer602 (talk) 07:05, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal[edit]

Hi YMB29! Sorry for the few days' gap in discussion on the dispute resolution noticeboard. I've gone ahead and started a thread at the Mediation Cabal about Battle of Tali-Ihantala to get the ball rolling. The mediation page is located at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/24 October 2011/Battle of Tali-Ihantala. You don't need to do anything just yet - the next stage is finding a mediator. If you want to fill out more details about the dispute itself then that's fine, but there shouldn't be any discussion there just yet. Hopefully we can all find a speedy and peaceful resolution to all the issues there. All the best — Mr. Stradivarius 14:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi there, hope everything is going well for you. I have decided to mediate the MedCab case myself, if that is ok by you. There are some ground rules I've made which I would like agreement to - you can find them at the mediation page linked to above. Thanks — Mr. Stradivarius 05:33, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Ok thanks for deciding to mediate the case. -YMB29 (talk) 15:00, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi again YMB29. About these tags and these tags - sorry, but I think they are best left out for the duration of the mediation. I can appreciate that you might want to warn readers about the things being disputed, but because of the number of statements under dispute, I think this is better done by the neutrality dispute banner right at the top of the page. The banner at the top of the page is a big bright warning, and should be enough to make the vast majority of readers view the article with a critical eye. If either of you are still adding or removing tags while the mediation is ongoing, however, it runs the risk of making the dispute more about the tags than the actual content. Please understand that this is not making any judgements about the tagged statements themselves, but that it purely procedural. I hope you can consider my opinion here, and I trust that you will refrain from more tagging while we are in mediation. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius 02:43, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update[edit]

Wikipedia-Medcab.svg

Dear YMB29: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:

Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/24 October 2011/Battle of Tali-Ihantala

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Mr. Stradivarius, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 21:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update[edit]

Wikipedia-Medcab.svg

Dear YMB29: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:

Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/24 October 2011/Battle of Tali-Ihantala

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Mr. Stradivarius, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 05:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey[edit]

Peace dove.svg

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite


Hello YMB29. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released.

Please click HERE to participate.
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.


You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 11:55, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested[edit]

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Continuation War". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 4 September 2012.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 19:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Request for mediation accepted[edit]

The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Continuation War, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Continuation War, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.

As mediation proceedings begin, be aware that formal mediation can only be successful if every participant approaches discussion in a professional and civil way, and is completely prepared to compromise. Please contact the Committee if anything is unclear.

For the Mediation Committee, AGK [•] 10:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Please[edit]

Could you please stop repeatedly calling me "misleading" at noticeboard [4],[5]? I am not. The Soviet/Russian "candidate" degree in humanities is usually counted at best as M.S., not PhD (in US). These guys have to enroll again in PhD programs in US and spend a few years to earn their real PhD degrees. I also said "deportation" (singular). Thanks, My very best wishes (talk) 20:30, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

You did not specify which deportation.
Candidate of Historical Sciences is equivalent of a PhD in history. I don't know where you get that it is like a master's degree. -YMB29 (talk) 22:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
This depends on discretion of employer (e.g. university). They may ask to provide a formal certification of your diploma (there are organizations in US who do such certification). As far as I know, the result will be that a Russian "candidate" of History or political sciences is equal to M.S. But that may depend on specific organization in Russia that gave such degree (not VAK of course, but History department of MSU, for example). The programs and requirements in Russian and US PhD programs in humanities are very different. That's the problem. My very best wishes (talk) 00:48, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
There may be exceptions, but generally it is considered equal to a PhD.
If you have evidence that Asmolov is not qualified as a historian, present them. -YMB29 (talk) 02:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
I am not a historian myself. So you might wish to read this lecture by Doctor Miller (this is a much higher degree than "candidate", right?). Here is what he thinks:

"Исаев и Дюков. Дюков очень интересный персонаж – можете набрать его в «Википедии», найдете о нем целую статью. Александр Дюков – директор фонда Историческая память. Молодой человек, где-то ему 30 с небольшим, окончил, кажется, Историко-архивный, никогда с тех пор по профессии не работал. До недавнего времени. Создал фонд и где-то по три-четыре книжки в год сейчас издает. Откуда фонд финансируется, остается догадываться.

Я успел прочитать две книжки. Первая книжка посвящена политике УПА – Украинской повстанческой армии в отношении евреев. Книжка по содержанию более или менее пристойная. Но тут как бы совпадение интенций и исторической правды получается. Потому что ему важно было показать, что УПА плохо обходилась с евреями. Действительно, плохо обходилась. Что в этой книжке бросается в глаза, так это большое количество материалов из архивов ФСБ, которые, как отмечается, впервые вводятся в научный оборот. Как он их получил? Надо спросить у мемориальцев, как они получают документы из ФСБ. Наверное, это обычное и простое дело.

Now he tells about the book "The Great War Slandered" by Dyukov:

... Эта книга – отповедь клеветникам, опровержение самых грязных, самых лживых мифов о Великой Отечественной войне, распространяемых врагами России».

"И вот в такой стилистике вся эта книжка и написана, из чего вы можете примерно заключить, что это за человек. Итак, вот такой фонд, вот такой историк, которого Данилин называет любителем. Какие издательства издают его книжки? - «Европа», «Regnum» «Эксмо». Про них тоже можно кое-что сказать. «Regnum» возглавляет Колеров, который служил в администрации президента, «Европа» – это Павловский и его центр."

Finally, Dr. Miller asks:

"Как вы думаете, писания Дюкова кто-нибудь примет всерьез за рубежами нашего отечества? Вот мы смеемся над тем, что публикует украинский Институт народной памяти? Смеемся. И заслуженно. И они так же будут смеяться над тем, что публикует Дюков." My very best wishes (talk) 03:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

This is just one opinion from the Russian Wikipedia article on Dyukov. There are positive opinions too.[6]
However, again you talk about Dyukov and not Asmolov. -YMB29 (talk) 04:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Historians whose renditions of Soviet history depart from incontrovertible facts and historians who look upon those historians favourably are not reliable. This is a very old argument that has long been put to bed. A degree in and of itself is not an indication of reliability. VєсrumЬа TALK 13:34, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
What "incontrovertible facts" are you talking about? It seems like any source that is not anti-Soviet is unreliable to you... -YMB29 (talk) 21:18, 16 March 2013 (UTC)'
Well, just one for instance, Dyukov maintains no Estonians were deported in cattle cars, that all rode to resettlement in Siberia in coach car trains attended by physicians and nurses for their welfare. An utter lie. It would take days to document everything wrong with what he's written, he's little more than RT's poster boy for debunking so-called Baltic lies. And I'll thank you not to engage in personal attacks.
Oh, as for the positive reviews of Dyukov's works, the individuals cited are hardly reliable as to the objectivity of Dyukov's scholarship. VєсrumЬа TALK 23:31, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
I am not engaging in personal attacks; your view is well known.
Again, this is not about Dyukov and your dislike of him. However, considering that he based his research on archival documents, I will not be surprised if he is right... -YMB29 (talk) 04:24, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Since FSB archives clearly lie (assuming his reportage is accurate, there's no third party verification), I would not be surprised if his scholarship is worthless. You know the old saying, garbage in, garbage out... Since Dyukov is well aware of testimony to the facts, his choice to call such testimony a lie is his choice. Oh, let's not forget his documentary movie blaming the Poles for starting WWII, classic victim blaming. VєсrumЬа TALK 02:57, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
So the archives lie? This is not a serious argument... -YMB29 (talk) 04:23, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Formal Mediation opening[edit]

Hello! My name is Lord Roem and I've been appointed the mediator for your RfM before the Mediation Committee. First and foremost, remember to keep an open mind during this process. Communication breakdowns are the root cause of these disputes, so only being open to compromise and hearing the views of the other party can we all move forward. With that said, please do the following things as we start the mediation:

  • Mark the Mediation case page on your watchlist, if you haven't already
  • Prepare and post a short opening statement on the case talk page here that is no more than 250 words. Briefly bullet-point the issues you feel are in dispute, and your initial position concerning those issues.

If you have any questions during this process, always feel free to leave a note on my talk page. But, please try to keep all discussion on the case page itself. Best regards, Lord Roem (talk) 05:44, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

MiG-25[edit]

Hi. It was not shared by F-14. 9 MiG-25s were shot down by F-14 and one by a F-5, whose pilot was Yadollah Javadpour. In the Tom Cooper's book is only mentioned the F-14 victories not of F-5s.Diako Zandi 20:27, 31 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diako1971 (talkcontribs)

Look at that page again carefully.[7]
It says (shared) in the last column. -YMB29 (talk) 20:50, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

February 2013[edit]

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Thomas.W (talk) 22:14, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Response[edit]

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Notice of complaints filed against others rel Continuation War talk page[edit]

Three complaints have been filed at Administrators noticeboard/Incidents [8] seeking relief from actions taken by users on the Continuation War talk page, on which you have been active. Paavo273 (talk) 23:55, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 28[edit]

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3RR[edit]

If you make another revert at Battle of Berlin in the near future you are likely to breach the WP:3RR rule. -- PBS (talk) 01:59, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.[edit]

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This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!


Please revert yourself at Battle of Berlin talk[edit]

Hi again User:YMB29,

Please immediately revert your hiding of my comments rel Solonin. This is inappropriate and could be construed as a 3RR violation when taken with your 3 reverts in 24 hours to the article page: "A "page" means any page on Wikipedia, including talk and project space. A "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part (my bold), whether involving the same or different material."

In future, please do not hide other contributors' info at talk pages, especially unless you have received courtesy permission to do so.

Your prompt attention to this matter will be appreciated. Regards, Paavo273 (talk) 21:15, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

3RR does not apply to talk pages...
That was not even a revert.
You can unhide it if you wish, but you breaking it into a separate sub-section makes the discussion hard to follow. -YMB29 (talk) 21:38, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi again YMB29,
Actually the 3RR rule (see my quote from the rule above) DOES apply to talk pages. But I see your point. I've put it in its own section below, so as not to interrupt the thread. As such, feel free to delete the one you've hidden. It would have been better I see now to start a new MAIN heading for Solonin. Regards, Paavo273 (talk) 21:42, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

September 2014[edit]

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Tell me if you are too busy to look into this but[edit]

Can you advise if there is any way to appeal this warning which was given to me by PBS? Is a help me tag applicable or anything else? Gregkaye 19:30, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

@Gregkaye: As far as I know, appeal requests should be posted on the admin noticeboard. You can try posting there, but from my experience it is usually hard to get admins to look into an issue and do something, especially if it involves undoing an action of another admin. -YMB29 (talk) 02:46, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
I hope you don't get phased by your experience. Thanks for the advice. Gregkaye 05:05, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Articles you have edited are covered by discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBEE[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svg Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding Eastern Europe, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

This message is informational only and does not imply misconduct regarding your contributions to date.

These discretionary sanctions apply to both Rape during the occupation of Germany and Soviet war crimes. I am alerting some people who have edited those articles during December so that you will be sure that your future edits of these edits are properly neutral and conform to all Wikipedia policies. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 17:24, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 29[edit]

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Reverting of articles by User:My very best wishes[edit]

The only thing what is he doing is reverting of articles, without meaningful and neutral explanations, because of such dumbs i deleted my account on wiki. 93.223.14.167 (talk) 21:17, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that is just harassment. You are not the only one who left wiki because of this. -YMB29 (talk) 21:20, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
No, YMB29. If you care to look at this IP's editing history, the actions were not harassment. The IP is actually an IP hopper from Bayern who is still actively engaged in WP:TE. You are, therefore, actively encouraging harassment by casting WP:ASPERSIONS about My very best wishes. If you believe you have a case against him, take it to an ANI. Judging by your editing behaviour on the Rape during the occupation of Germany, your judgement is being impaired by personal grudges rather than being based on content. I would strongly suggest that you focus on content. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:57, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Ok... Did you really have to reply on my talk page over a week later about something that did not involve you? I guess you are keeping an eye on my editing behavior... -YMB29 (talk) 05:11, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
@Iryna. Speaking about my recent interactions with YMB29 on several pages (we did not interact at all during two previous years), I believe these particular interactions were just fine. I made some changes, YMB29 reverted, and we discussed. This is basically along the lines of WP:BRD. This is not to say that I support highly partisan sources used by YMB29 or his sustained slow-motion edit wars in numerous pages with multiple users, ones that he always "wins". My very best wishes (talk) 15:43, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
My apologies, YMB29. In re-reading my missive, I realise that it came across as being an obnoxious reprimand targeting you editing behaviour (you're welcome to trout slap me for the rendering of my message). Yes, there was a time lapse as I didn't consider it to be an urgent issue and am busy IRL. My intention was merely to remind you that we should be wary of our responses to unsolicited complaints against other regular contributors. I've been keeping an eye on this IP hopper as I'm fairly certain s/he is a user known to me who is evading their block. I wanted to point out that regulars should be cautious about empowering trolls whose impetus is that of divisive tactics.
Of course I've been following the deliberations over the article you've both been working on, and understand it to be a collaborative effort. I simply want to remind you that it's best to be vigilant about being played. Keep up the great work (both of you)! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:17, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, I agree: this a suspicious IP (they just admitted above to be a "secondary account", possibly to avoid detection), and the claim about "harassment" was completely bogus. In fact, I tried to help by convincing YMB29 that he is using inappropriate sources (using better sources could help him to avoid the disputes), but unfortunately this did not work [9], [10], so I give up. My very best wishes (talk) 23:40, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't know how reverting me in different articles is helping me. This is just the kind of actions that lead to disputes and edit wars.
So what Russian historians are appropriate sources according to you? You have to understand that there are reliable sources with views you don't agree with and they belong in the articles. You don't see me removing reliable sources just because I don't agree with what they say. -YMB29 (talk) 01:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I know. You remove crimes on the occupied territories because you think they are not war crimes [11] (edit summary). My very best wishes (talk) 05:48, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Political repressions and war crimes are different things. I still did not get the sources I asked for, but at the time I was busy with other topics and did not care enough to continue on with this.
This has nothing to do with removing "inappropriate" sources, so what is your point?
I see that you are spending some more time researching my editing history... -YMB29 (talk) 06:33, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Repressions against civilian population (imprisonment and executions) by the occupying power do qualify as War crime. My very best wishes (talk) 14:49, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The countries were annexed not occupied. Also, you are linking to an article that needs serious work. -YMB29 (talk) 17:05, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
How, precisely, does that exclude it from being a War Crime, YMB29? Is this some form of WP:OR equivalent to a woman not being legally able to be raped by her husband because he has conjugal rights? You should also note that there is nothing untoward in checking an editor's contribution history in order to establish patterns and a predelection for particular changes in content surrounding a particular issue (known as a WP:SPA). In fact, your pattern of editing certainly lends itself to such an interpretation. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
So now I am a SPA...
Imprisonment or deportation by a government of its own citizens are not war crimes. If you are claiming otherwise without sources, you are guilty of OR.
Checking a user's history and following him around to lecture and/or revert him is wiki hounding, which is a form of harassment. -YMB29 (talk) 07:34, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
"The countries were annexed, not occupied". So, you believe that Baltic states were not occupied by the Soviet Union (diff above). Well, this is just one of many fringe ideas you are trying to promote here (others are that mass rapes in Germany did not happen or that Stalin did not plan to transform Finland to another Soviet Republic, for example) and conduct slow motion edit wars on multiple pages to enforce these fringe views by nationalist authors. This is obvious from looking at the edit histories of the corresponding pages, including this, this, this, or this and their talk pages, such as here, which shows clear pattern of WP:TE/WP:DE editing. Of course, this could be reported by someone to WP:AE, but this is not my responsibility. I do not care any more. Good bye. My very best wishes (talk) 14:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
You cared enough to spend time researching my edit history again.
Go look up the word annex and occupy. If you still think it was occupation for 50 years, you are the one promoting nationalistic views.
Anyway, all you are doing is showing again and again that you are wiki stalking me. -YMB29 (talk) 18:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Try reading the policy you're invoking again with care: "Correct use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing unambiguous errors or violations of Wikipedia policy, or correcting related problems on multiple articles." No one has been 'stalking' or 'harassing' you. You've called attention to yourself by your tendentious editing patterns, and this has happened over a protracted period of time. There is nothing peculiar or 'hounding'-like about developing an uncomfortable feeling about a contributor's bent and quarrelsome method of editing, then following their editing history in order to establish whether it is typical or atypical for that contributor. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 08:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
So what tendentious editing patterns are you talking about? We have interacted only in one article, in which you removed text without consensus on behalf of someone else. You came here to post also on behalf of someone else, to defend another user.
I guess you easily develop "an uncomfortable feeling" about users who don't agree with you on something...
The fact that you keep coming to my talk page when there is no real reason to do so (our brief article dispute was over a month ago) speaks for itself. -YMB29 (talk) 23:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

translating the Russian historian[edit]

I meant a RS for the translation - you keep linking to the Russian - article - but then one is asked to trust your translation - but you are not a RS imo. Sayerslle (talk) 00:57, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

You simply don't understand how translations are used here. -YMB29 (talk) 01:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
and you? - see talk page at the article - if you take on the task , you are meant to put the original on the page - did you do that? no you bleedin well didn't. . you simply don't follow the rules and understand how translations are used here, , and, remember , Translations published by reliable sources are preferred - (especially I should think when about contentious topics, where pov pushing is likely a problem that could emerge) - Sayerslle (talk) 01:25, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Alert[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svg Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding Eastern Europe, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

This message is informational only and does not imply misconduct regarding your contributions to date.

Poeticbent talk 22:17, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Blocked for one week[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked temporarily from editing for deliberately misrepresenting sources to push an agenda, as noted at User talk:Nick-D#User:YMB29. I also note this recent post were you wrongly stated that "the text is directly supported by the quote provided", which suggests that you see nothing wrong with this conduct - I seriously considered making the block duration indefinite. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.  Nick-D (talk) 22:07, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Extension of block to one month[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked temporarily from editing for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

Disruptive editing: Misrepresenting sources. This user has been blocked several times for short periods, without any change apparent in his behaviour. Longer blocks now need to be considered.

I have extended the block given to you by User:Nick-D due to your continuing tendentious editing, and seemingly unchanged behaviour: misrepresentation of sources, followed by continual arguments against consensus, as demonstrated recently at AN/I. As you noted, WP:ARBEE applies to this case, and it is in accordance with this previous decision that both Nick and I are acting.

Now, honestly, editors here can see that you are very passionate about investigating the aftermath of issues such as the Soviet seizure of Berlin at the end of the Second World War. Wikipedia would greatly benefit from clear-eyed editors who could bridge the range of sources available in both Russian, English, and other Eastern European languages. I think I would speak for more editors that just myself in saying that quoting full sources, and then debating their level of historical credibility, with due regard given to potential ways history is shaped through official lens, would be very welcome. Personally I would very much encourage you to consider reviewing WP:PILLARS and thinking about the ways you might contribute positively to building this encyclopedia, without undue emphasis on debating issues on talkpages. I'd be happy to put further thoughts on this to you should you wish it.

As always, please feel free to appeal this block through the normal process, and I am just about to doublecheck that I have continued to allow you to edit your own talkpage. Kind regards Buckshot06 (talk) 22:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

YMB29 (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)


Request reason:

As I understand the original reason Nick-D wanted to block me was the text cited to Bird. I don't understand how the text was a deliberate misrepresentation by me given that:
  • It was first added to Battle of Berlin by another user in 2010[12] with consensus from other users, and has been in the article for years.
  • It states exactly what Bird says about the statistics, without stating or implying anything else. See the section below for more details.[13]

As for Roberts' text, I was not trying to imply that Roberts' view was that the scale was normal or low; that was not the point I was trying to make when I added the text. I did correct myself with a partial self revert[14] and was going to make more changes. Again, see the section below for more.[15] If I did make a mistake, it was unintentional. I think good faith was not assumed towards me with regard to this text, because Nick-D already decided that I should be blocked for re-adding Bird's text.

Regarding what Buckshot06 added, I was and still am willing to discuss content issues and go through dispute resolution if everyone sticks to the content. Too often some users on talk pages have concentrated on me instead of the content. I felt that I was harassed by a group of users (some of them have a history of doing that), so I created the ANI report.
My last block was almost three years ago, so it is not like I was continuing disruptive behavior.
If there are concerns about my editing, I think changing my block to a 1RR limitation for a month or longer (or have some kind of a supervision over my edits) would be the better solution. -YMB29 (talk) 23:37, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

The bottom line is that my block is mainly based on the assumption that I intentionally misrepresented sources to push a POV, which is simply not true and insulting. I ask for any neutral admin or user to read the text section below[16] that explains everything. -YMB29 (talk) 18:24, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Also, my block was further extended to indefinite, because I tried to explain that there was no misrepresentation and presented evidence; I think this is unfair too. -YMB29 (talk) 22:49, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Decline reason:

In all seriousness, an unblock with topic ban may be possible if you accept there are problems, however continuing to deny the problems is unlikely to lead anywhere. PhilKnight (talk) 21:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first and then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Given that your misrepresentation of Roberts' book was very similar to your misrepresentation of Bird's review (as noted at User talk:Nick-D#User:YMB29, that's not at all credible: there's no way that this was an accident. You have clearly been misrepresenting sources to further an agenda of casting doubt on the scale of the rapes committed by Red Army forces in Germany. I concur with Buckshot's decision to impose a longer block. Nick-D (talk) 01:57, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

:::Decline request to be unblocked. There is no real evidence at this point to suggest that you will change your behaviour: you're continuing to make tendentious arguments which, as Nick-D has shown, fly in the face of what you actually did. Should you wish, you can use this talk page as a sandbox to demonstrate that you are able to edit in line with Wikipedia's normal standards. We can talk again in two weeks or so, giving you a chance to consider your actions - a cooling-off period. Buckshot06 (talk) 02:30, 14 February 2015 (UTC) I have been advised that I, an involved admin, cannot review the unblock request. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Nick-D, there is a misunderstanding. I told you a number of times I did not add the text sourced to Bird to the Berlin article; it was first added by another user (well respected) in 2009.[17] Why don't you look at the diff? This change had consensus and was in the article for years. I only re-added it when other users came to the article and started reverting it.
Regarding Roberts, I corrected myself with a revert. I can honestly say that I was not trying to imply anything Roberts did not say. Can you re-read the text (after my revert)? As I told you, I was going to add his view on the scale today.
Also, are you suggesting there will be a topic ban too? I don't understand.
Buckshot06, how can I use this page? I don't think fair attention was given to my arguments. I don't need two weeks to cool off. How about a few days?
Also, can I email you later (don't know if your email communication is turned on) about an issue I noticed right after I was blocked? I don't want to post it here. -YMB29 (talk) 03:15, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Construct the text here that you would like to add, and invite comment upon it, noting where you would have it inserted. Two weeks is just about the least amount of time I judge you might need to consider your actions, but as I've just been advised, I cannot consider your unblock request. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
@Buckshot06: The problem is that another user has taken advantage of my block right away to revert my edits (and those of others) on multiple pages, including Rape during the occupation of Germany. This shows that the situation is more complex than it looks. I can present evidence, but I don't know if it is appropriate to do so here. -YMB29 (talk) 03:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Also, a SPA has reactivated right after I was blocked[18] to revert more text that I added to Rape during the occupation of Germany. -YMB29 (talk) 03:35, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
You have been blocked for your conduct, so what others may or may not have done is not at all relevant. Nick-D (talk) 03:36, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
So it is ok for others to revert my edits on multiple pages, including those which don't have to do with rape in Germany, as soon as I am blocked? Also did you look at my reply about misrepresenting sources? -YMB29 (talk) 03:45, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
On the Bird stuff? Wikiblame shows that you added the first (and most problematic) of the two examples I checked [19] (the diff is [20] and your edit summary was "new text"). Wikiblame isn't turning up who originally added the second example, but even if I was to accept your argument, you're the one who recently re-added it despite having apparently having access to the reference and you're responsible for this as well anyway per WP:PROVEIT. Nick-D (talk) 03:59, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I added it to Rape during the occupation of Germany from the Berlin article. It is a valid text, which was discussed by others many times on the talk pages. There is no misrepresentation. I believe you jumped to conclusions. I will add a section about it and the other text below. -YMB29 (talk) 04:08, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Further tendentious arguments and blaming other people isn't going to help your case from this point. Nick-D (talk) 04:14, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Can you look at the section when I finish it? I will let you know. -YMB29 (talk) 04:16, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
@Nick-D: Please see the section below. -YMB29 (talk) 05:13, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
The analysis on my talk page is accurate. You are still picking out bits of the texts, and ignoring the authors' actual arguments to push your views (in Roberts' case, his focus is on why the Red Army committed a number of rapes he regards as being greatly above the "normal" level that would be expected for an army of this size and does not suggest that the numbers were not high as you are implying that he wrote). Given that you're still doing this while blocked, I am extending the block duration to indefinite as it seems likely that you'll take up this stuff again once the block expires. 06:23, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
@Nick-D: Are you serious? I added a section that explains everything. How is this disruptive? Did you even read it carefully? I told you that I modified Roberts' text and did not imply that he thinks that the Red Army committed rapes on a normal level. This is an insulting accusation, just like with Bird's text.
Basically, you are punishing me for explaining my case.
I think I have explained everything clearly. Can another admin look at this? -YMB29 (talk) 06:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
For starters, the first sentence of the paragraph you wrote on Roberts' views is grossly misleading: he doesn't consider the "extend of the Red Army's rape is hard to judge" - he states that it was very high and why this was the case is then the focus of his analysis. The rest of your "revised" paragraph gives readers no inkling of this at all. Nick-D (talk) 06:51, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
He directly says that it is difficult to judge, see here.
He does imply that it is high (although not millions) later, but I did not intent to make claims about the scale; that was not the point of my edit (and it was not the right section to do that).
Again, I did not consistently push this text. If someone would have told me that they think the text is still not accurate and a specific part should be changed, I would have considered changing the wording (like I did the first time) or letting them do it. -YMB29 (talk) 07:04, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Other comments[edit]

"Why are you coming here". I am coming here because you need an interlocutor now that your access to ANI is barred. Not only am I am experience editor, but because I am also an experienced administrator (as an administrator I have never taken any form of administrative action against you (per involved)). Your situation is by no means a unique one and so I can see where it is heading. If you were to agree to option 4 I am fairly certain that I could ask an uninvolved administrator to do the paper work providing that user:Nick-D consents to such a development. Then if after a year or more of responsible editing in other areas, if you wished you could open a suitably worded ANI to have the sanctions lifted. -- PBS (talk) 12:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

You seem to be here to insult me and to make sure I am gone for long. One or two comments were enough, but you keep coming.
You were involved in a long dispute with me, so you are not exactly neutral. You seem to be a well respect user here, but in our dispute I found your conduct inappropriate.
Using arguments from an obvious SPA (who simply copy and pasted text written by another disruptive user) against me in the ANI, further shows that you are not objective when it comes to me.
I don't see why I should be banned for a long time based on accusations that are simply not true. If I am blocked, this should be based on something I actually did and based on evidence, not accusations. -YMB29 (talk) 20:10, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Questions and observations[edit]

Question 1[edit]

Buckshot06, I have a question. Why did you ask Nick-D if I should be blocked?[24] Was it because of the ANI thread or the reverting at Battle of Berlin? -YMB29 (talk) 04:32, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Here is what I think happened. You saw the reverting at Battle in Berlin. You saw three users reverting text and me trying to restore it, and concluded that I was the problem. Here are some points I want to make for you to consider:
  • Those three users never edited the article before. You see nothing wrong with users coming to an article they never edited before to remove text (that was added over 9 months ago), claiming that it was sneaked in without consensus, and then doing the same for text that was added in 2010? I actually notified you about this.[25]
  • The first removal of text[26] was done because supposedly the sourced historian is a falsifier of history.[27] The same user removed text cited to the historian from three other articles.[28][29][30] The whole claim about the historian was made based on an accusation found in a blog. As you know, we can't consider blogs reliable sources, especially for information about a living person (WP:BLOGS). The historian is a credible academic source, see here[31] for more information about all this. The next two reverts simply repeated the first, and the last two reverts also removed text that was added back in 2010, falsely assuming that I added it there.
As for my revert Thursday, I assumed that my argument on the talk page[32] was convincing, since no one replied.
  • So this is basically a spill over from the dispute at Rape during the occupation of Germany, where one user followed my history to make a revert in the Berlin article, and then the other two users repeated his actions. You think this is a proper way to build a new consensus in an article? Two of the three users reverting the text were members of the EEML, and here is relevant information from that case regarding consensus: When a group of editors consistently and repeatedly participate in the same discussions to support the same point of view — especially when many or most of the members of that group had little or no prior participation in the underlying dispute — it is reasonable to presume that they could be coordinating their actions. Evaluation of consensus in particularly divisive or controversial cases need to carefully weigh the possibility and avoid ascribing too much weight to the number of participants in a discussion — especially when policy enforcement or sanctions are considered.[33] -YMB29 (talk) 06:39, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
@Buckshot06: Can you comment on the points I made above. I am trying to figure out why you asked Nick-D if I should be blocked. -YMB29 (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Question 2[edit]

@Nick-D: I still can't understand why you think the text cited to Bird was a misrepresentation. You don't trust me then fine, but I don't think you can suspect Paul Siebert (who first added the text[34]) of any mischief; he was a well respected user. Did you read his comments in the section below?[35] The fact that the text was in the article for years should tell you that no one had a problem with it.
The users who removed it from the articles were not even saying that Bird does not criticize any particular statistic. They were claiming that I cherry picked the criticism, because Bird's review is positive overall. Since the subject was not Beevor's book, but the statistics, I don't think that is cherry picking either.
I also can't understand why my attempts to explain things to you are considered by you as continuation of disruptive editing. I think there is a misunderstanding and I am willing to discuss this with you. As I understand, your view is that Bird criticizes some statistics, but not the 2 million figure? -YMB29 (talk) 23:00, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Text issues[edit]

Bird's text[edit]

This is the text in question (in bold) that was in Battle of Berlin:

Although all sources agree that rapes occurred, the numbers put forward are estimates. A frequently quoted number is that 100,000 women in Berlin were raped by soldiers of the Red Army (Helke Sander & Barbara Johr: BeFreier und Befreite, Fischer, Frankfurt 2005), but this estimate has been questioned by Nicky Bird (Nicky Bird, International Affairs (Royal Institute of International Affairs 1944–), Vol. 78, No. 4. (Oct. 2002), pp. 914–916), who characterises the statistics as "unverifiable".

This is the text from Bird:

Perhaps 2 million German women were raped, 100,000 in greater Berlin. Beevor estimates that 10,000 died, some murdered, most from suicide. The mortality rates for the 1.4 million raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia were probably much higher. Statistics proliferate, and are unverifiable. Beevor tends to accept estimates from a single doctor - how can we possibly know that 90 per cent of Berlin women were infected by VD, that 90 per cent of rape victims had abortions, that 8.7 per cent of children born in 1946 had Russian fathers?

So Bird mentions the statistics, but states that they are unverifiable. This includes the 2 million and 100,000 figures; he does not accept these figures as fact since he says perhaps. All of Beevor's rape estimates come from a German book by Sander and Johr (see the citation in his book[36]), which presents estimates from a doctor, and Bird criticizes Beevor for trusting that doctor.

How is the text added to the article a misrepresentation? It only states what Bird says about the statistics and nothing else; it does not state or imply that Bird thinks the scale of the crime was low or anything like that.

The text was first added to Battle of Berlin in 2010.[37] There was a long discussion on this, see this archive.[38]
These are the comments by Paul Siebert (a user who was well respected but stopped editing):

  • "In other words, we have the Anglophone scholarly secondary source that confirms the MathFacts' point about the data obtained from a single doctor, and that explicitly states that Beevor's book is not the most accurate source for the rapes in Berlin (although quite good in general)."
  • "Of course not, because, firstly, for every mathematically educated person the procedure used by Jorh (see above) is a complete nonsense, secondly, journalists do not publish their reviews in scientific journals, so Bird is not a journalist but a scholar... In actuality we have (i) Sander's and Johr's estimations, that have been quoted by other scholars (although with reservations, see, e.g. Grossman); the Sander's and Johr's work meet reliable source criteria so we can use it in the article; (ii) the Beevor's book where some conclusions are drawn, mostly based no Sander's and Johr's findings; this is also a reliable source; and (iii) the Bird's review that states that the rape statistics is unverifiable; this is also a reliable source. Note, we have no sources that either question this Bird's conclusion or state that the Sander's and Johr's data are verifiable. Therefore, we have only minimal freedom of manoeuvre, and any manipulations with these sources would be a synthesis. We have to state that Sander and Johr made estimations that have been quoted by some other authors, although statistics are unverifiable."

Again, the text was in the Berlin article for years, and after as long as the discussion was on that archived page, it is hard to claim that it was sneaked in without consensus. From what I can see the main debate was about where to place this criticism, in the main text or the footnotes. -YMB29 (talk) 04:58, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Last May I added the text sourced to Bird to Rape during the occupation of Germany.[39] I added the exact text quoted from Bird, but it was later trimmed down by another user.[40] Since Bird criticizes the statistics used by Beevor in general, including the 2 million figure, and the text does NOT say that Bird thinks the scale is greatly exaggerated, this is also not a misrepresentation. -YMB29 (talk) 06:56, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Furthermore, the subject is the statistics and not Beevor's book, so not stating that the review was positive overall is not cherry picking. -YMB29 (talk) 01:13, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Just to clarify, a deliberate misrepresentation and distortion of Bird's view would have looked something like this: "Bird thinks the scale of rapes was greatly exaggerated, stating that Beevor's statistics are unverifiable." However, neither I nor Paul Siebert added such badly worded texts to the articles. -YMB29 (talk) 05:32, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Roberts' text[edit]

Link to the page in the book:[41]

Here is the text I added based on Roberts' book (after my partial self-revert):

Historian Geoffrey Roberts writes that the extend of the Red Army's rape is hard to judge. Nazi propaganda was predicting mass rape by Asiatic hordes of "judeo-bolshevism" before the Soviets entered Germany, and, after the war, exaggerated figures were put out to partially exonerate Germany by showing how much its civilians suffered. He notes that the German Army probably committed tens of thousands of rapes on the Eastern Front, but that murder was the more typical crime for them.

This does not say or imply anything about what Roberts thinks the scale is; I did not intend to make it look like he thinks it is low or not high. The point was to show that Nazi propaganda portrayed the Red Army as Asiatic hordes and post-war politics exaggerated the figures to show that the Germans were victims too. Also, the text was meant to explain that the German Army committed these and worse crimes too.

Note that I put this in the Analysis section, and not the main section where the numbers are mentioned.

This is the text I wanted to add to the article just before I got blocked to clarify what Roberts' opinion is on the scale (I found it in his other book, where it is stated a little bit more clearly):

According to Roberts, estimates of the scale of the rapes range from tens of thousands to low millions, and the true figure is probably in between.

If someone believed that I was missing something, I was not against them making changes, or telling me exactly what was misleading (instead of just telling me that I am misrepresenting the source). There was no edit war over this. When I was told the first time on the talk page that the text was not right I made a change myself to address the concerns.[42]


So I think stating that I misrepresented two specific texts on purpose is not a fair observation, especially when it is the main reason for my block. -YMB29 (talk) 04:58, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments[edit]

I feel an obligation to check this quotation. First of all, here is complete text of this review by Bird. One should always look at the entire text. Did you read it? It is immediately obvious that the two-paragraph quotation of the source by Paul Siebert you refer to here was incorrect. He combined together two paragraphs separated by a large portion of text, but did not indicate "..." between them. Now, after reading the entire review by Bird, it becomes abundantly clear that he provided a highly positive, praising review of the book by Beevor (it ends by words "Beevor's book will remain the last word", etc.), even though the reviewer noted lack of reliable statistical data on the subject. Given that, using this review by Bird to criticize work by Beevor (as you did) was indeed a misinterpretation by taking something you like out of the context - I agree with Nick-D. My very best wishes (talk) 00:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

That is not what Nick-D said. He assumed that Bird does not criticize the 2 million and 100,000 figures, which is not how I see it, not how Paul Siebert saw it, and apparently not how you see it too.
What you are saying is that I cherry picked by adding only criticism from Bird's review. However, the fact that his review was positive overall has nothing to do with the subject, which was the statistics (not Beevor's book), so mentioning that the review was mostly positive would have been off topic. -YMB29 (talk) 00:33, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I may not be objective and therefore will not argue any further. Perhaps the link to the text of full article (above) and the arguments at talk page of Nick-D could help a reviewing admin to independently look at this issue. However, given the ungoing discussion on ANI, I assume that admins are waiting for the official ANI closure prior to doing anything here. My very best wishes (talk) 00:51, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
And you are patiently waiting for them to do something here?
This is what Nick-D said:
Bird actually wrote that "Perhaps 2 million German women were raped, 100,000 in greater Berlin" without questioning this, and called the statistics in general "unverifiable" rather than this figure as was wrongly attributed to them.
I don't agree with this interpretation. The fact that Bird says "perhaps" DOES mean that he is questioning these figures. Also, if Bird writes that the statistics are unverifiable in general then obviously that includes the 2 million and 100,000 figures. -YMB29 (talk) 01:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
No, this is not what Nick-D said. He said [43]: "the issue they raise is that it's difficult to verify any particulate figure rather than the scale of the rapes being greatly exaggerated. As such, the statement added to the article misrepresents the source.". And, yes, I must agree with Nick-D after quickly reading the entire review. My very best wishes (talk) 01:11, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Nothing is said about what Bird thinks the actual scale was. The subject is the statistics. I or Paul Siebert did not write "Bird questions the scale of the rapes, saying that..."
Also, like you said, you are not neutral here, so you should not be posting here too much. -YMB29 (talk) 01:18, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
The purpose of your edit [44] was clearly to show that the scale was greatly exaggerated, especially since you placed him just behind Senyavskaya. Word "also" in your edit places Bird in the same camp as Senyavskaya, but he is not. And that is misrepresentation. My very best wishes (talk) 01:25, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
He was placed after Senyavskaya, because she also criticized the statistics used by Beevor (all the statistics come from a German book by Sander and Johr), see my original edit [45] (before it was trimmed down). -YMB29 (talk) 01:31, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

(Reply to this edit[46]) But that is precisely what you did in this edit by selectively quoting Bird out of context, placing him directly after Senyavskaya, and telling "also". This way you clearly misrepresented Bird as a supporter of Senyavskaya, who like her, believes that the scale of rapes was greatly exaggerated, while he did not mean it at all. My very best wishes (talk) 14:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

You are repeating yourself. Again, Bird is not taken out of context. Nothing is said about the scale. He criticizes the statistics and that is the only thing that is being mentioned, and the only thing he and Senyavskaya agree on. -YMB29 (talk) 14:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I will tell no more because you removed and moved comments made by me and other contributors [47]. However, I do not see how any reasonable admin can unblock you after looking at WP:Consensus at the ANI thread and your request and comments above. My very best wishes (talk) 17:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Post in the right section if you don't want your comments moved. You seem to be so concerned that I might be unblocked... Of course if there was real deliberate misrepresentation of sources, others would support a long block for me or anyone, but, as I explained here, there was no misrepresentation. -YMB29 (talk) 17:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Sockpuppet investigation[edit]

FYI see ForzeX and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/YMB29 -- PBS (talk) 14:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

So you decide to open a SPI just because a user leaves a comment on the talk page that points out an obvious fact I have stated before (Solonin is not an academic historian)? This is just further harassment. Again, you show that you are desperate to get me blocked for long. -YMB29 (talk) 15:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
So was this really necessary? You thought that I was dumb enough to create another account just to post a comment on a talk page... -YMB29 (talk) 19:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── From the SPI Checkuser:

"Technical data is clear: both accounts  Unrelated. - Mailer Diablo 19:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)"

Dumb no tenacious yes. -- PBS (talk) 21:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

@PBS: I don't think you should have bothered with this based on only one comment.
By the way, you know full well that the text I am accused of misrepresenting[48] was added by another user in 2010 and has been in the article for years (with you being ok with it), yet you are silent over this... -YMB29 (talk) 22:24, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Battle of Berlin discussion[edit]

However, you know that I did not misrepresent the sources, at least Bird's view, yet you don't say anything about this. -YMB29 (talk) 13:07, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

My earlier comment (you know that I did not misrepresent the sources, at least Bird's view, yet you don't say anything about this) was referring to the fact that you know that I was not the one who added Bird's text, which is the main reason for my block. You participated in the discussion with Paul Siebert before he added it, and were ok with the text as long as it was in the footnotes. So if you were an objective admin, you would mention this, regardless if you think there are other problems with me. -YMB29 (talk) 17:57, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── You write It was one thing when you did this on the article's talk page, but to do it here to try to influence admin decision is going too far. No it is not, as I have no longer any reason to assume good faith, as the opinion I formed when you reverted back in your first edited the Battle of Berlin page and argued strongly for it on the article's talk page, has been confirmed by many other editors: That you edit in bad faith to force through what I think is a biased POV. I refrained from saying so until this ANI, because I have been following the behavioural guideline and assuming good faith, but as the guideline says "This [Assume good faith] guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of obvious evidence to the contrary".

I told you above that you had four choices, and offered you a way out of an indefinite block, but since then you have not shown any understanding of why you were blocked or proposed any real strategy for encouraging an admin to unblock you. I was not going to comment on your bias and deliberate misrepresentation of sources but neither am I going to remain silent while you make statements such as However, you know that I did not misrepresent the sources" because you do misrepresent the sources. If you did not want me to comment, then you should have restrained yourself from making such a comment. But I think that one of the problems you have is that you do not know when to stop. The whole idea of this section was to keep it brief as the last admin who reviewed you last unblock request suggested; but here were are again with a wall of text, and I will not be at all surprised if you append yet more text after this comment. -- PBS (talk) 01:05, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Well it has grown thanks to you...
As I have shown above, it was you who deliberately misrepresented sources with regard to Senyavskaya and Russian historians. There was no excuse since you knew that it was not only Senyavskaya's view.
Regarding my first edit, my attempt was to attribute each statement to each of the sources cited. You made it clear that you did not agree with that, so I dropped that idea; I don't know why you keep bringing this up.
I told you that when I said "However, you know that I did not misrepresent the sources," I was referring to Bird's text, which you know is not a misrepresentation. You know that I am right about this, but again, as it is common with you, you simply ignore what proves me right. -YMB29 (talk) 04:09, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Breakdown of the blocking admin's analysis[edit]

Here is Nick-D's analysis of Bird's text[57] and my comments:

[58] This is an accurate quote from the book review, but is only referring to Beevor and not criticising the statistics more generally as was implied.

No, the statistics that Beevor and other authors use all come from the German book BeFreier und Befreite (by Sander and Johr) and were calculated by a German doctor, see Beevor's citation in his book (Dr. Gerhard Reichling, "Charite and Kaiserin Auguste Victoria" are the clinics whose data was used). Perhaps a little background knowledge would have helped understand this better.

Indeed, immediately above this quote the Bird writes that "Perhaps 2 million German women were raped" and "The mortality rates for the 1.4 million raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia were probably much higher" without stating that these figures are incorrect or not feasible

This is also incorrect, see the full quote:
Perhaps 2 million German women were raped, 100,000 in greater Berlin. Beevor estimates that 10,000 died, some murdered, most from suicide. The mortality rates for the 1.4 million raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia were probably much higher. Statistics proliferate, and are unverifiable. Beevor tends to accept estimates from a single doctor - how can we possibly know that 90 per cent of Berlin women were infected by VD, that 90 per cent of rape victims had abortions, that 8.7 per cent of children born in 1946 had Russian fathers?
Bird does criticize the 2 million, 100,000 and 1.4 million figures. The fact that he says perhaps means he doubts them. Immediately after he states that "Statistics proliferate, and are unverifiable." Also, the next sentence says that "Beevor tends to accept estimates from a single doctor," and like I explained above, all the rape estimates come from that doctor. So there can't be any doubt that Bird criticizes all the mentioned figures.
Furthermore, if Nick-D thought that Bird criticizes only the statistics mentioned in the last sentence, these statistics (specifically 90% of rape victims had abortions and 8.7% of children born in 1946 had Russian fathers) were used to derive the 100,000, 1.4 million and 2 million figures. This was discussed here. So even if one thinks that Bird is criticizing only the figures in the last sentence, he of course is also criticizing the other figures that were derived from these.

the issue they raise is that it's difficult to verify any particulate figure rather than the scale of the rapes greatly exaggerated. As such, the statement added to the article misrepresents the source.

The text (In his review of Beevor's book, Nicky Bird also criticizes the statistics, stating that... followed by the quote) does not say or imply anything about the scale "being greatly exaggerated." It only mentions the statistics, which Bird does criticize.

[59] this is also unacceptable for similar reasons to reasons above: Bird actually wrote that "Perhaps 2 million German women were raped, 100,000 in greater Berlin" without questioning this, and called the statistics in general "unverifiable" rather than this figure as was wrongly attributed to them. I can see no good faith way this mistake could have been made: it's an obvious distortion of the source.

Again like I said above, Bird does criticize all the stated figures (including the 2 million one), which come from a single source.
Also, Nick-D did not take into account that the text was first added back in 2010 by another user[60] after a lengthy discussion, and it has been in the article all these years. There was consensus to add the text and the user who did it had a good reputation.


Analysis of Roberts' text[61] with my comments:

From comparing this with the source, it's also clear to me that the source is being misrepresented. Roberts does indeed state that it's difficult to judge how many rapes took place and argues that estimates have been exaggerated to partially exonerate Germany. However, he also states that "hundreds of thousands of rapes in Germany" took place (and endorses the views of historian who estimates that the number may have been as high as 2 million),

Roberts quotes a historian who says that it may have been 2 million (after mentioning lower figures), but that does not mean Roberts endorses this. He considers hundreds of thousands as the more likely figure. In his other book he makes this clear.[62]
Also, quoting a historian who says that estimates range from tens of thousands to two million only confirms that the scale is hard to judge.

with this being much higher than the number which would be "normal" [his word] for a force of this size, and the focus of his analysis is what lead to such conduct. I can see no good reason for omitting this when discussing his analysis.

The point that Roberts makes is that the scale of the crime was exaggerated for political reasons and that is what I originally wanted to show, because that makes him stand out from other Western sources cited on this issue. Yes, he does state that the scale was still high, even though it was exaggerated. I did not originally add Roberts' opinion about what he thinks the actual scale probably was because for this he quotes Naimark,[63] who was already cited in the article (in fact the exact quote Roberts uses from Naimark is paraphrased in the article). I can understand the argument that Roberts' view on what the scale most likely was should be mentioned, but I was going to add this myself after I found it clearly stated in his other book mentioned above. To say that I intentionally omitted it to imply that Roberts thinks the scale was low or anything like that is really stretching it and not showing good faith. This was newly added text that was going to be expanded on. I also omitted a lot of things he says (which I was going to add later) that make the Red Army look better with regard to this issue.[64]

This earlier edit was much worse - saying only that "Roberts concludes that, given the scale of the conlfict and the size of the territory involved, probably tens of thousands of rapes were normal for such a conquering force as the Red Army" deliberately misrepresents his argument that the Red Army's conduct was much worse than "normal" conduct for such a force. Again, I can't see any way that this could have been the result of a good faith mistake, especially given the agenda being advanced.

If it was not a good faith mistake then why did I remove the sentence[65] when it was brought up on the talk page? I realized that it does not look right and might be misinterpreted, so I removed it.
Saying that I tried to advance an agenda further shows that Nick-D had no good faith towards me after he misinterpreted Bird's text.

-YMB29 (talk) 18:43, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Some notes about the ANI thread[edit]

These are the calls for a topic ban before the block and my comments:

Support topic bans on all editors active in this dispute. I am not a fan of the "block 'em all, let Jimbo sort 'em out" approach, but in this case, it seems appropriate. Regarding Volunteer Marek, this user has been nothing but a thorn in the side of anyone attempting to have a civil discussion or improve an article, so a topic ban on him would greatly improve the editing environment. Viriditas (talk) 03:24, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[66]

This was obviously directed at the other user.

Support WP:BOOMERANG topic ban for YMB29. Per everything I said above and based on the diffs I have looked fully into the edits YMB29 is complaining about being wrong were correct:

Dyukov is a revisionist historian
Yep cherrypicked the reviewer does not say his methods call into question the magnitude of the rapes as this quote seems to imply.
Removing the weasaly "A frequently iterated claim that the] war time rapes had been surrounded by decades of silence." and replacing it with "The" does not violate WP:MOSINTRO
Albert Axell is not a historian by any accademic measure.
Saying that "There is dispute from Russia concerning these claims." Re the rapes is unsupported. Saying some Russian historians dispute the rapes is supported.

I see no point in continuing through the rest, I want to go to bed.
Volunteer Marek and the others(not going to list them VM is the one brought up by name in the sanction) may have been UNCIVIL but I can not say I would have remained civil in the same situation. It would be great if we had a civility policy with teath but we do not. Topic banning all the other editors for responding to a WP:TENDENTIOUS editor is extreme. I am sure VM and the others can be a real pain in the ass but this is not the issue to topic ban them over. JBH (talk) 04:14, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
[67]

This user showed up to the ANI claiming that he is neutral, but his comments show that this is not true. Not only the tone of his comments did not show neutrality (we discussed that here), but also his analysis of the dispute like the one above:
  • I was not the one who added Dyukov and I later agreed to have him removed. However, my point was that if Dyukov is a revisionist then there should not be a problem finding a source for that, otherwise it is a WP:BLP violation. Someone changed the main article on Dyukov about a week before this ANI thread to say that he is an obvious revisionist, instead of attributing this to an Estonian source like before[68]; this is a WP:BLP violation.
  • This is again about Bird's text. There was no cherry-picking and nothing was said about the "magnitude of the rapes." The subject was the statistics and the review does criticize them, for more see here.
  • This more than anything else proves my point that the user did not know what he was talking about. He picked the wrong sentence in the diff... The sentence he mentioned was not disputed.
  • If Axell cannot be called a historian, provide a source for that. I provided sources that say he is a historian,[69][70][71] and what sources say is more important than what some users think.
  • There are many sources that prove that it is not just "some" Russian historians who dispute mass rape (not rapes as was wrongly written),[72] but this user of course did not bother to check.
I did not want to respond in detail to his walls of text at first, because that would mean posting walls of text of my own in a thread that was quickly getting too long, and also because I felt that it was obvious that he was simply advocating for the other users while pretending to be neutral.

Support topic ban for User:YMB29 from this issue. Currently he is again repeating the same behaviour that User:JBH has identified at my talkpage. Buckshot06 (talk) 07:59, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[73]

I am not sure why he thought my behavior at his talk page was disruptive.[74] I was the one who came to his talk page to simply notify him of what was happening in the Berlin article, but he did not get the points I was making and decided that I was causing trouble, probably because there were three users removing text and only I was trying to restore it. This is a very simplistic approach to determining consensus. More about this is here.
Also, him repeating the claim (on his talk page) that I was somehow trying to invalidate "Western scholarly consensus," shows that he did not pay attention to what I was saying on the talk page.

-YMB29 (talk) 02:39, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments[edit]

If you are going to quote me include the diff otherwise it looks like I wrote the comment here, since you copied my signature as well, and removes context. Please ping me as well if you are going to discuss my edits, it is only polite. Thank you for your understanding. Jbh (talk) 03:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

How did you even know about this so fast? Do you have my talk page on your watchlist?
The diffs are added. Your comment and those of others are in small and italic font, so I think it is obvious that you did not post here.
This section is basically for any admins who may want to review the ANI thread when looking at my block. If you want to discuss anything mentioned above, you can do that here. -YMB29 (talk) 04:04, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for putting in the diff. I have gotten kind of picky about quotes and context from other experiences here. Yes, your talk page, and any place I have made a lot of edits is on my watch list. I have no comments on the block issue, that is between you and the admins. Have a good day/night. Jbh (talk) 04:14, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Unblock question[edit]

@PhilKnight: I am not denying that there are problems. I can admit problems with some users and probably there are some reverts that I should not have made. I can accept a block or a topic ban if it is for something I did, but in this case I can honestly say that I was not trying to intentionally misrepresent sources.
Did you read my explanation regarding Bird's text[75]? Again, the text was added by another user after a long discussion in 2010 and has been in the article all this time. I think there was a misunderstanding of the text and my actions by Nick-D, but my attempt to explain this to him resulted in an infinite block.
I have already been blocked for almost a month. What do you suggest I should do? Is there a way to have uninvolved admins or users look at the text and comment on it? -YMB29 (talk) 22:56, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

  • I suggest you make a new appeal to WP:UTRS and keep it as focussed as possible. PhilKnight (talk) 18:47, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
@PhilKnight: Ok, I will file a new appeal, but is there a reason I should use UTRS? I thought it is only used when talk page access is revoked. Do you think it will help keep the appeal focused? -YMB29 (talk) 19:35, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't know if UTRS will hear an appeal if talk page access unless talk page access is revoked, but, yes, I think there's too much information on this page, and that a more focussed approach would be better. PhilKnight (talk) 22:24, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Ok, so I will make a new regular appeal that is more to the point in a new section below, thanks. -YMB29 (talk) 04:32, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Unblock request[edit]

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

YMB29 (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)


Request reason:

I was advised to create another unblock request that is more focused on the issue and is not drowned in comments. I was blocked for intentionally misrepresenting sources, but I believe that this is not a fair decision. I never tried to do this and never will. My block was then extended to indefinite, because I tried to explain that there was no misrepresentation, especially intentional, to the blocking admin, but he interpreted this as continuation of disruption.

The main reason for my block is the text sourced to Bird. I think the blocking admin (Nick-D) misunderstood the source and text I was trying to restore, and I ask that an uninvolved admin or admins review Nick-D's decision, that it was a misrepresentation of the author's view. I explain everything in detail and provide the text and quote from the source here[76]. My main points are:

  • The text was first added by another user, who I don't think can be suspected of mischief, in 2010[77] after a long discussion, and it has been in the Battle of Berlin article for almost five years with no one objecting.
  • The text does not say or imply anything the author (Bird) does not directly state. He criticizes the statistics as unverifiable and that is the only thing the text says.

I could understand if Nick-D would just disagree with me on this text, but to say that I intentionally distorted the source to push a POV is unfair, especially since I am not the one who first added the source and text. The dispute with other users was not even about the text saying or implying something that Bird does not state; they claimed that I was cherry picking criticism from a book review that was mostly positive.[78][79] I don't agree with this also, because the subject was not the book, but the statistics, which Bird does criticize. I think this is a content dispute that can be settled through dispute resolution; there was no need to block me over this, especially indefinitely.

Another piece of sourced text was also mentioned, but I think it would be a non-issue if Nick-D did not already decide to block me for Bird's text (he did not assume good faith as a result). In this case, I also did not intend to imply anything the author does not state, and I corrected an unintentional error I made. For more see here[80].

If any more explanation, diffs or links to sources are required, I can provide them. -YMB29 (talk) 03:33, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Decline reason:

There's a plethora of evidence to show that you misrepresented sources, whether intentional or not. I would advise waiting for the standard offer. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 08:11, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first and then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Any administrator who decides to unblock needs to consider what alternative action if any needs to be taken over an ANI which was in process when this block was imposed it is now archived at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive874#Edit warring, personal attacks and hounding by former EEML member. -- PBS (talk) 10:00, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

The block was not imposed because of the ANI thread. Most there were supporting additional action, because they assumed that I was really guilty of misrepresenting sources. If a user, especially one I had disputes with, intentionally misrepresented sources, I would probably do the same. However, you know that I did not misrepresent the sources, at least Bird's view, yet you don't say anything about this. -YMB29 (talk) 13:07, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


@The ed17: Can you explain what you mean by plethora of evidence? If you think I did something wrong and want me to avoid repeating it in the future, then you should tell me what exactly I did wrong. I believe there was a misunderstanding of my edits.
Did you look at the points I made[81]? All I ask is for someone to look at my evidence and discuss the text issues with me. -YMB29 (talk) 17:30, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


@PhilKnight: I created a request that was more focused on the issue as you suggested, but it does not look like the admin above looked at the issue itself. I don't understand what he means and he has not clarified his statement.
All I am asking is for my block to be properly reviewed, as well as the decision to extend it to indefinite just because I tried to explain and present evidence.
I don't think there is a way to review the block without looking at the texts and sources[82] that I am accused of deliberately misrepresenting. Can you look at this carefully when you have time? -YMB29 (talk) 20:30, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

PhilKnight, are you going to look at my block when you have time or should I create another unblock request? Can you at least suggest what I should do now? I have already been blocked for a long time and no one seems to want to look at my arguments and evidence. -YMB29 (talk) 18:45, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I'd suggest creating another unblock request. PhilKnight (talk) 11:22, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Unblock[edit]

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

YMB29 (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblock)


Request reason:

It was suggested that I create another unblock request. I was blocked for misrepresenting sources, but the admin who blocked me misunderstood the source and text I was trying to restore. He also did not consider that the source and text were actually first introduced by a well respected user in 2010[83] after a long discussion on the talk page, and they have been in the article for almost five years. As a result of all this, the admin decided that I was pushing some agenda and did not have any good faith towards me. Here is his analysis and my comments.[84]

Also, the block was extended to indefinite just because I tried to explain and present evidence[85] after being blocked.

All I ask is for the block to be properly reviewed (as well as the decision to extend it to indefinite), which I think cannot be done without looking at the article texts and sources I am accused of misrepresenting. So far it does not look like anyone looked at my evidence and considered my arguments. -YMB29 (talk) 17:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Decline reason:

You did misrepresent the source in this edit, giving an impression contrary to what the author actually says, proceeded to selectively quote it here, again misrepresenting the point made by the source, and then incorrectly tried to blame another editor for your issues on this very page. Huon (talk) 22:54, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first and then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

The problem is, that you did misrepresent the sources as part of POV-pushing, and you are continuing to deny this or even take responsibility for material you added (note that by re-adding disputed material you took responsibility for it per WP:BURDEN, so the question of who first added it is not at all relevant). As well as the analysis of this editing on my talk page, the reviewing admin should see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive874#Edit warring, personal attacks and hounding by former EEML member where there was consensus that YMB29's editing was unacceptable, and this block justified. Nick-D (talk) 01:04, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

There was consensus at the ANI after you and Buckshot06 made me look like a trouble maker. Of course others would want me blocked for a long time when they see that I was blocked for misrepresenting sources. However, I did NOT misrepresent the sources.
Did you read my analysis of your analysis[86]? You misunderstood what Bird is saying (he DOES criticize the 2 million and 1.4 million figures) and then assumed nothing but bad faith. Instead of discussing the issues with me, you did not want to hear me out and extended the block to indefinite.
I don't think you could suspect Paul Siebert, who first added the source and text, of POV-pushing. That material was added to the Berlin article with consensus and was undisputed for almost five years (in the other article for about nine months). You don't see anything wrong with a couple of users removing it, falsely claiming that I sneaked it in without consensus? It was properly cited and had consensus, so the burden was on them to prove that it is inaccurate or at least try to discuss it properly (per WP:BRD). -YMB29 (talk) 06:30, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

@Huon: Do you at least see that I did not misrepresent Bird's text? That was the main reason for my block.
As for Roberts' text, I removed the disputed sentence myself when I realized that it did not sound right.[88] How can you hold this against me? This shows that I was willing to listen and understand what others have to say.
This was not an attempt to misquote the source. I provided the sentences that were asked for. Maybe I should have quoted more of the text or provided a link to the page, but why would I deliberately misquote a book that was available online?
You think an indefinite block is justified for this? -YMB29 (talk) 04:44, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

I see no point in arguing which source you blatantly misrepresented to push a certain point of view, and I think an indefinite block is entirely justified for conduct such as yours. Huon (talk) 19:40, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Huon, it is not about arguing. If the admin made a mistake interpreting a source, that is important to consider when reviewing the block.
In your decline reason, you linked to text that I added, but I corrected it myself later[89]; this is important to consider too.
Did you look at my explanation and evidence[90]?
I am not a POV pusher. I was always willing to compromise and if I made mistakes, I was willing to correct them myself. If you need any evidence of this, I can provide it. So I am perplexed why you and some other admins are not willing to listen to me and look at my evidence. -YMB29 (talk) 20:48, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


Regarding this, I don't understand why Nick-D is so concerned about me creating unblock requests, if he thinks his decisions are correct.
For the second and third requests, I asked first if I should create them and it was suggested that I should (look at the sections above). -YMB29 (talk) 20:05, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Commenting on text issue[edit]

  • YMB29, I got your email. Sorry, but I don't think that there's anything that I can do to help. Looking at the discussion here and at ANI, I'm afraid that the consensus seems to be that your block should stand, and I don't have the power to unblock you against consensus. It is onerous, I know, but Ed's suggestion of the standard offer is probably the way to go here. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 23:33, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
@Mr. Stradivarius: I was not blocked because of the ANI. The discussion there was about a topic ban, not an indefinite block, and there was consensus only after I was blocked for "misrepresenting sources." This was not a community ban. The decision to block and extend to indefinite was taken by an admin.
I was not asking you to unblock me, but I wanted to know if there is a way to have uninvolved users comment on the source and article text I am accused of misrepresenting. -YMB29 (talk) 00:13, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
@Mr. Stradivarius: So there is no way to get neutral users to comment on the text issue? The source and text were first introduced to Battle of Berlin by a respected user[91] (you may remember him from the Holodomor mediation). The sourced text was added with consensus and was undisputed for almost five years. So it is not like it was some obvious crap that I pushed into the article just before being blocked. -YMB29 (talk) 22:31, 10 June 2015 (UTC)