User talk:Zaian/Archive02

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Table Mountain

Regarding the cableway, it can definitely be expanded, and when that occurs it should be broken out again as a separate article. The reason I merged it was because for the time-being it is short enough (and more importantly contextual enough) to wholly belong to Table Mountain. As for the hiking info, I'm not sure that Hiking on Table Mountain would pass muster. I'm purely arguing in terms of policy and guidelines here, not trying to be difficult, but I think somewhere on WP:NOT would be something along the lines of "Wikipedia is not a how-to guide" or something similar. Factual information (e.g. geographic description) about the trails themselves is obviously merited, particularly if there are good references. We may disagree on whether it belongs here or not, but it definitely also belongs on Wikitravel. If you have the inclination to do so please put it there. While I'm on about references, I haven't had much luck (or maybe I haven't looked hard enough) finding references for much of the stuff written in the article (e.g. History, Flora, Fauna sections etc.), if you know of any then please cite them as well, it would add to the quality of the article. I keep comparing this to Mount St. Helens, Tabel Mountain is worthy of a featured article but it needs to be expanded and referenced. Cheers. Zunaid 14:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Back in South Africa

Hi, get iBurst or myWireless from Sentech.. Cheers, Gregorydavid 11:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Scouting Barnstar

The Scouting Barnstar

- A hearty thank you for your steadfast, tireless, and quality contributions to Scouting articles. Rlevse 01:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Your vote please

Hi Zaian - Please vote on the proposed name change of the 'South African farmer murders' page. The straw poll is here. Please also pass this message on to others you think would be interested. Thank you! Cheers, Jason Lionchow - Talk 08:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

PW Botha defence and prime minister source

Hi. My source is a December 1979 U.S. Intelligence paper, which obviously does not say how long he kept both jobs: paragraph 12 of [1]. Preceding paragraphs would also probably interest you - the very brief nuclear weapon info in the PW Botha article isn't entirely accurate, but give a reasonable flavour. Rwendland 10:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I've updated the article. This BBC article [2] confirms Malan as defence minister from 1980-1991. Rwendland


Jediwannabe nominated South_African_Scout_Association at WP:GAC. It's in dire need of more refs. Rlevse 20:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

This article was put on hold. The issues on the talk page look lengthy but aren't that bad. With a tad of work, it'll be GA. Rlevse 04:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


I moved the paragraph because it made more sense having it right next to the picture of the buffalo. :-)

I don't oppose moving it back, but I think it makers sense next to the photo. Thanks for yopur note. --evrik (talk) 14:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you know?

Updated DYK query On 21 November, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article fly-whisk, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)(c) • 14:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bronzewolf.gif

{| align="center" style="background-color: white; border:8px solid red; padding:5px; text-align: center; font-size: larger;" |Warning sign |This file may be deleted. |} Thanks for uploading Image:Bronzewolf.gif. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. When you use a generic fair use tag such as {{fair use}} or {{fair use in|article name}}, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Oden 05:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Zaian: This guy tagged two of your images in the BW article. Use something like this for the rationales )this is BSA specific):

It is believed this image is eligible to be used under fair use for the following reasons:

  1. Permission to use all images of BSA badges with their motifs in Wikipedia was obtained from BSA on 13 Dec 2005. Badge, rank, insignia images are reproduced with permission of the Boy Scouts of America.
  2. This is copyrighted material of the BSA. All rights are reserved by BSA.
  3. BSA images is only being used in Wikipedia articles for informational and educational purposes.
  4. The image's inclusion here will not result in financial loss to the copyright holder.
Hope it helps. Rlevse 08:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the image was uploaded before May 4, 2006 so I removed the no rationale tag. However, it would still be a good idea anyway to add a fair use rationale. --Oden 10:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Year links

Responded on my page. Cheers. MadMaxDog 10:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Africa Award

Zaian, instead of pestering you with half-witted formulations of praise for your contributions to Africa related articles, let me instead give you this award --Ezeu 08:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Zaian is presented this Africa Award for his excellent contributions to Africa related articles. Presented by Ezeu from the Africa-related regional notice board

Experimental Scout camp

Hi Zaian - I see you started the page on the Brownsea Island Scout camp. Would you have any objections if I changed the spelling to Commonwealth/British English, as per the Manual of Style ([[3]]), the part that says 'If there is a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, use that dialect ... Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country.' This is very much a British topic, albeit of international significance. 14:36, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

No objections - I use Commonwealth spelling myself. Zaian 19:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Recent AIV report

Hey, there. :) Blocked the IP you reported, but thought I should also mention requests for oversight -- in cases where personal information of that sort is posted, we have a select few users who can completely remove edits from page history (even admins won't be able to see it). There are of course only a select few circumstances where this is done, but p-info is usually the main thing. I've already emailed them about this one, but if you see anything of that nature in the future, just letting you know this is available. Cheers, and thanks for helping to combat vandalism! Luna Santin 19:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Wood Badge

See talk on GA nom here. We think it would be a good idea if you could add a SA section.Rlevse 16:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Ventersdorp

Hi, since you appear well versed in all South African ,I was wondering if you could help me find websites which information relating to acts of rebellion and violence in the reform process era as there simply isn't enough on wikipedia for saying the tremendous event that was the end of Apartheid. I began the Battle of Ventersdorp article and I believe you editted the image of, thank you, because I had uploaded it and although I have footage of the Battle of Ventersdorp it was the only still shot I could find and it was in black and white and of poor quality. I'm looking to clean- up the Battle of Ventersdorp article and make it more factual and less floury in keeping with wikiquette.

If you could give me any links or if you want to do the work of editting yourself I'd be so grateful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 23:47, 27 January 2007

Did you call another contributor a RACE TRAITOR? Zaian 06:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Did you know?

Updated DYK query On 4 February, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John Perlman, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
--GeeJo (t)(c) • 23:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for featuring John Perlman. However it's a pity that this South African story was only featured for 6 hours between 1am and 7am on Monday morning South African time. Zaian 06:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a pity, the updates are a bit irregular because of different people doing different shifts on different timezones, but if you submit a few times, the long and the short stints will balance each other out hopefully. There was a time on a weekend when it stayed for 40 hours.... Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Please notify first

Hi Zaian

I see you deleted the edits I made. Fair enough, i did NOT include references. However, i now have references, and they are good ones...from different mediams, both on the net as well as in books. And if you would like to see those, i can give you the details-which you can research.

I would appreciate it, if you could notify me BEFORE you delete edits, as to state my case. If not, i will have to state my case and complaints further up.

My name SIMPLY states my origin(I am a BOER-which Is politically correct if you wish to enter details) , as well as my interest and proffesion. I have now stated my name and it's origins to you, if you need any more information dont hesitate.

I seek to simply state the TRUTH, and FACT

Your Co-operation is appreciated.

BOEREGENERAAL —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boeregeneraal (talkcontribs) 12:56, 5 February 2007

If you are able to add verifiable facts to the article in a neutral way, please do so. It's not necessary for editors to notify each other before deleting text, so I'm afraid I will not be doing that. Please do not threaten me with taking your complaints "further up". Zaian 11:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


From Talk:Rondebosch Boys' School:

Just something very minor - why can one find two links to the same site on the page? Surely one is enough? -- Chris Lester talk 14:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
It causes no harm to have an External Links section like many other articles, together with a link in the infobox. However, the main reason I reverted your deletion is school rivalry :-) You have made quite a few bad-faith edits to this page. If this minor issue worries you, why not delete the equivalent link from the Diocesan College page that you have edited quite frequently? Zaian 14:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Well then what would you describe your actions as? I'd say your attitude and response is petty - one based upon actions of nearly eight months ago! Redundancy is not something that I believe in - but you are welcome to feel different about it. You also seem to assume a number of things: (1) that I approve of the link on the Bishops page, (2) that I am out to make this an inferior page to the Bishops article (why all your "if you look at Diocesan College"?) and (3) that you can choose which information to include or exclude from a page (e.g. Why did you remove the latest rugby score, but were happy with the UCT Maths Competition?). You would be well-advised that this edit is cleary not in bad faith (maybe even an innuendo on your part that I cannot do anything good on this page?).
Now -- let's stop poisoning the well (you started it...). If the article is relatively short (which Rondebosch is), then maybe a link twice is not at all needed; however, if the page is far, far longer, one may consider, in order to make information far easier to access. That being said, I think you need to be more objective when it comes to deciding what to do - please judge the edit, not the editor. Reverting someone for school rivalry is really a sickening and pathetic excuse. -- Chris Lester talk 19:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I said school rivalry with a smiley. Before reverting, I checked several school pages that had the link in both places. I admit that I did not trust your editing this page and I don't think that's completely unfair, but you're right, it was a while ago, so I will back off. Please accept my apology for offending you. I hope we'll work together in better friendship in future. Would you object to moving all of this correspondence to our respective talk pages? It's of little relevance to this page and does neither of us credit by leaving it here. Zaian 19:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

From User talk:Chris.lester:

Hi Chris, I've left a comment on the talk page. Please take note mainly of the line where I apologise for offending you. OK? Zaian 19:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for that -- its fine. I understand where you come from (i.e. I have openly admitted to being badly behaved 8 months ago), so would understand if you treated my edits with suspicion. That being said, I understand that such an issue of weblinks is trivial and not worth worrying about. I think we would both agree that poisoning the well reflects badly upon both of us - and would be happy to put this behind us. -- Chris Lester talk 19:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Mbeki source

Hi, thanks for the message. Maybe I was too quick to revert without starting a discussion first. Perhaps your input on the article from the FT I read might help. Also, I'm not 100% how to link or reference the article as I cant link to a source that requires the user to have access rights. I agree though, that it seems more likely to be Govan Mbeki than Thabo Mbeki but the article doesnt seem to say that. The following is the article I read:


LENGTH: 151 words



The Gov'nor

Thabo Mbeki's state visit to Britain is not all about bouquets and banquets.

There was a nice family touch yesterday when the South African president opened a health faculty at Glasgow Caledonian University - to be named the Govan Mbeki health building after his father.

Mbeki Snr, Mandela's prison companion on Robben Island for many years, was not called Govan out of any loyalty to the shipyard on the Clyde. He was named in honour of Edward Govan, the Scottish missionary who founded the non-racial school he attended in the eastern Cape - Lovedale College.

Both Govan Mbeki and Mandela attended the school, as did Thabo, before he fled into exile.

When Mandela visited Glasgow Caledonian in 1996, he turned down the offer to have the new building named after him. Too many public places already bore his name, he said. So why not call it after one of his closest friends - Govan Mbeki?

LOAD-DATE: June 13, 2001

Copyright 2001 The Financial Times Limited Financial Times (London,England)

June 14, 2001 Thursday London Edition 1

What d'you think? thanks--TheEditor20 09:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm you may be right! Govan Mbeki it must be. Sorry, I must have been scim reading. I will add it to Govan Mbeki's page but god knows I will probably mess up the referencing so have a look and see what you think. thanks--TheEditor20 09:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It's subscription I'm afraid, unless your like me and get it free with your university. Also, I am using Lexix Nexix Executive, and I think that the professional version doesnt bring up as much stuff. --TheEditor20 10:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Bop coup

Hi I put up the article because it was a big turning point when ending Apartheid but I was wondering what exactly needed cleaning up, since you 'cleaned it up' according to the page edit history? 13:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

P.S. You seem to have a lot of info at your disposal, do you have any names for the three guys who died in the Battle of Ventersdorp?

Are you the same anonymous user who called another contributor a RACE TRAITOR? I don't want to talk to the person who wrote that. Zaian 13:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

William Devino was that annoying copycat

He shares an IP address with me and found my work on the William Devino page and decided he'd copy me, so he called himself William DeVino and yes he was quite racist to people, look on RevJohn's user page. He got banned because he said "Sieg Heil" on his user page I remember him now. And he said a lot of other things about Jews and blacks and just seemed a bit of a di** to be honest.

JBAK 13:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Why do you think that edit was by User:Williamdevino? It was anonymous. Zaian 14:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Something to do with the fact I KNOW HIM. And his name ain't William. 15:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Well done, you're smart aren't you. We edit together.


Well I've deleted my User page.

Have a nice time.


I've been allowed to return to wikipedia on the basis that I behave appropriately, I promise I'll apologise to RevJohn from what I said but I noticed that you've put that the Tebbutt Commision wasn't part of the TRC, are you sure?

So let me get this clear in my head, there was the Tebbutt Commision which looked into the entire 2 day invasion and then a seperate hearing for the killings brought by the 3 families?

BOV1993 14:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Goedgevonden

I've done an article on the Battle of Goedgevonden because I think it's relevent to both AWB and South African history. Please add anything that you know.

BOV1993 17:49, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It's not a notable event. Please stop asking me questions - you were recently banned for disgusting behaviour and I don't want to help you. I will edit articles if I think they need it. Zaian 20:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Zaian

Best wishes for you and for your future contributions to Wikipedia. Cheers, RevJohn 11:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 23 February, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bisho massacre, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--ALoan (Talk) 13:50, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


You were 'watching' me as you put it, why? I don't appreciate you taking on the role of God and watching my edits, I find it disturbing that you have time to watch all my edits. Please stop this.

BOV1993 19:03, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I have a right to watch your edits - what you do on Wikipedia is public. I am monitoring you because (a) I'm actively involved in editing topics which overlap with your interests, (b) you have made some useful contributions so you are not just a vandalising kid, however (c) you have gone WAY over the mark in the past - have you forgotten that you several times threatened to kill blacks? and (d) I want to make sure that you NEVER do something like that again. Your best bet is to accept the rules of behaviour and stay out of trouble in your editing. If you start making waves, there are plenty of administrators who will be very happy to ban you. Considering your past actions I'm very surprised that your new account was not immediately blocked, but you've been given a chance to clean up your act. I recommend that you start by deleting your latest comment on User talk:RevJohn. You anonymously threatened to kill his son - he has ABSOLUTELY NO obligation to treat you in a polite way, even though you apologised. Do you understand? Zaian 19:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Look here, don't say 'do you understand' to me for a start, just because you know something about some things doesn't mean that you know everything. As for me and RevJohn we've settled things quite nicely and we didn't need your services in doing so.

I'm not going to go into this any further but I don't appreciate being talked to like I'm 5 years old over the internet by a guy who's for all I know younger than me. If you want to settle this face to face we can talk on msn. I'd really like to give you my point of view on Msn in fact.

I'm going to forget that you said, "Do you understand", as though you're my teacher for the sake of our future work on wikipedia but I'd be more respectful and understand if you were an administrator.

Anyway don't take anything I say too seriously, RevJohn didn't and I threatened him, so I think Zaian you can lower your tone with me.

BOV1993 00:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not interested in talking to you on MSN. I'm glad you've sorted things out with RevJohn. Zaian 06:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Regarding "Anyway don't take anything I say too seriously, RevJohn didn't" ... Are you kidding? BOV1993 I have taken your comments VERY seriously. Your remark above is wrong. You are being offensive. Zaian's comments are spot on. You BOV1993 do not understand. BOV1993 please don't make further edits to my user/talk pages and don't refer to me with incorrect comments about what you think I think. And I don't want to enter into a dialogue with you. I would suggest you try to stick to making constructive objective edits to Wikipedia. RevJohn 13:13, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Please do come on msn

I'd love to have a talk with you Zaian, I'd also like to know why you believe that the Goedgevonden incident was so similar to the one in Ventersdorp?

BOV1993 00:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


It's up to RevJohn. If he believes a apology is sincere enough to warrant a block reduction I'd be happy to comply. - Mgm|(talk) 10:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Why did you revert my edit?

On the Bophuthatswana coup page you called what I said 'unsourced' and an 'opinion', it was said in the Bang Bang Club and was most probably the feeling of all AWB members and sympathisers present, are you disputing that their goal wasn't to fight a battle on South African soil for their cause.

Let's no forget that despite the outcome, the idea of the AWB was to secure Bophuthatswana as an Apartheid homeland and not to randomly kill people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 09:52, 30 March 2007 (UTC).


It's me again ;) This link [4] comes up with a "Document not found" error. Can you maybe please check if you have added the correct link? I know that this info is probably true -- but it makes sense to correct the link. Cheers -- Chris Lester talk 13:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


Hi - Any chance you have any other photo's from last weekends race. I was busy running and therefore did'nt get many pictures. I would like to use them to help promote the race and the charity I am running for. Thanks and apologies if this is not how I am supposed to contact you. I'll check back here every so often for a response. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FunRunner (talkcontribs) 13:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

I'm afraid the only suitable shot is the generic shot of the finish line, which I put in the article. You're welcome to use that one. Zaian 15:27, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Knotting and ropework

Thanks very much for your recent work and cleanups. Those lashing, splicing, and whipping articles really do need some work... As you'll probably see in your watchlist, I moved Cat:Ropework up a level to be in Cat:Skills since Cat:Tools didn't make much sense to me. But since I've been wrong before about category stuff, revert as necessary. Also feel free to join WP:KNOTS if you are so inclined. Regards, --Dfred 03:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm glad you think my changes were useful! Zaian 14:55, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey Zaian

Hey Zaian, I see you've been to England, ever come to the West Midands?

BOV1993 20:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


Can you stop acting like you're a Moderator, just get on with your edits and I'll get on with mine, stop 'watching' me. I don't like you, stop calling me an extremist, come and hear what most people I know think, they think I'm a liberal, no- one likes you. You just cause trouble 14:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, BOV1993/JBAK/Williamdevino, until you can find a rational argument, cite your sources, be brief, spell properly, think neutrally, log in when you edit, or persuade an experienced editor that your rambling additions to right-wing topics are better than my edits, I will be carrying on with my editing with no regard for your opinion. Remember you've been blocked many times, so it's not me causing trouble. At least you've stopped with the death threats, so you have made progress, though. Regards, Zaian 14:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Re:Mr. Mandela

No problem, I tend to watch Alien's page (as he does mine), we'll sometimes respond to questions from other users. I don't have a lot of suggestions, because I just happened to glance at the article in response to your question.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm very much a WikiGnome when it comes to politics and religion: certainly Nelson Mandela was an extraordinary man, so if I see trivia, unformatted references, well, I definitely know it's not GA. Now you've massively improved the article, so I think a re-nomination is in order: and for someone more experienced than me to judge. Alientraveller 15:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


Are you saying that the AWB didn't have that image? I think most people would agree that they were seen as a national joke and an organised White survivalist force.

JBAK88 18:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

My last edit was cited

The edit you said was 'incoherent and uncited as usual' was actually from, we've used information from that website before, why not now?

I think you're anti- Christian, just because I'm a Christian who has followed God's word, through my actions in the past, you feel the need to repeatedly damage my work. Oh well, I guess we know who'll get the very last laugh. 10:10, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice

I ordered it over amazon last night and chose express delivery so I got it, it's very informative, although I'm only part way through it's quite funny to think I'd become quite mislead.

I didn't realise that the standard of living for Whites was dropping.

JBAK88 16:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I've no idea where you got the idea that white living standards are falling in SA today by reading a book that dates from 1994. Zaian 19:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

You don't understand, I meant that living standards for Whites were falling prior to the Reform Process and by the way it was written in 1996.

Maybe the end to Apartheid wasn't such a bad thing anyway, if life was bad for Whites.

JBAK88 15:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that's a bit clearer. Strange interpretation though. By the way the first impression was in October 1994. I was there, remember... Zaian 19:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you help?

I've been reading on in the Alistar Sparks book, I've opened a page on the Volksfront Alliance, I think I've provided the groundwork, however I'd like you or Deon to add the finishing touches and confirm that I haven't been confused.

JBAK88 16:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Defender For trying to defend wikipedia, mislead though you may be. (Please don't think this is a piss- take, it's not!)JBAK88 13:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Stop hand nuvola.svg

You will be banned for impersonating a wikipedia administrator, this is your final warning.

JBAK88 18:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)