Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

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This page is for reporting and discussing incidents on the English Wikipedia that require the intervention of administrators and experienced editors.

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User:JohnWilkinson (re-opening case)[edit]

This is a continuation of a previous case from December 2016 / January 2017 (although I think may be getting my noticeboards confused; am I in the right place?) Either way, long-term unconstructive editing dating back to October 2015. Today, User:JohnWilkinson is back to his old tricks at Gennady Golovkin, loudly spouting his nonsensical agenda against the IBO and presenting himself as some all-knowing authority on boxing. When it comes to utter nonsense like this, the phrase I'm looking for is "I cannot". Again, I dread interacting with him in any way, but please do something. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:54, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

He rarely if ever used talkpages, refuses to engage... a short block seems necessary. --Tarage (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
He's been making these edits for almost two years, but only returning every few months to do so. A short block won't ward those off. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:57, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
Topic ban? --Tarage (talk) 21:10, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
Since he has no existing block log, a short block is the obvious next step. I'm prepared to do it if this recurs. Deb (talk) 21:17, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I think we need to be a bit more strict here. The user is clearly NOTTHERE- he wasn't on this last username nor the one before that. The user has been given chance after chance- the first ANI thread got derailed after unintentional OUTING and the second ANI thread (ironically enough opened by himself) raised serious CIR issues- a 'last chance' if you like. At this point, I can only conclude that this user has serious CIR issues between the anti-IBO agenda and nonsensical edit summaries and is just NOTTHERE to build an encyclopedia. jcc (tea and biscuits) 22:28, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
This is absolutely ridiculous. This might be low-level and intersperesed by months of inactivity, but it's no less trolling for that- or disruptive. Frankly they should probably be indef'd and get it over with. They narrowly escaped sanction in (two) previous ANIs, as a result of doing their usual M.O. disappearing act. At the last one, NinjaRobotPirate was pretty clear as to the consequences of any continuation. — O Fortuna semper crescis, aut decrescis 07:48, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
It's true my talk page message was supposed to be a final warning, but maybe I wasn't clear enough about that. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:23, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
No issue with another admin blocking now but I'll be alerted whenever JohnWilkinson edits and will block if they don't heed my clear, final warning. --NeilN talk to me 17:57, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Should that happen, do I come back here yet again or just let one of you know? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:35, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
@Mac Dreamstate: I'll be alerted whenever JohnWilkinson edits and will monitor them so there's no need to notify me. --NeilN talk to me 14:34, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Here he goes again.. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:51, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
Already indefinitely blocked. --NeilN talk to me 23:52, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
After doing a little bit of poking about on the net, this block is as much for his sake as it is ours. Blackmane (talk) 03:55, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

User refuses to gain consensus for major changes[edit]

User:Tvx1 recently (about two weeks ago) began making major changes to the way race schedule tables are laid out in IndyCar season articles (e.g. 2017 IndyCar Series). He did so without opening discussion on any talk pages or project pages. He unilaterally reversed a long-standing practice of color-coding different types of tracks in these tables. I am simply asking that these tables be reverted to their prior appearance and a discussion opened with other editors regarding this change. I am absolutely fine with supporting his changes IF he achieves consensus, but he absolutely needs to do so before making such major changes. Furthermore, he has accused me of edit warring and violating WP:OWN, despite the fact that I am only suggesting that he follow the norms of editing on Wikipedia and actually interact with others. I believe this behavior is shameful and insulting and he should be warned against doing it in the future. Eightball (talk) 15:25, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, you are at 3 reverts over the same edit. Under 24 hours? I don't know. My math is off today. I've had like 6 hours of sleep. Secondly, this is a content dispute. It doesn't belong on ANI. Thirdly, there are no rules that require seeking consensus over WP:COLOR guidelines and such. You don't own the article, it doesn't require consensus. Nothing in Tvx1 suggests "shameful and insulting" behaviour. I propose this thread be closed. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 16:35, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I will also add that Eightball has also been launching personal attacks at me on my talk page. Additionally to the actions of Eightball, JoeyofthePriuses has been blanket reverting my edits on numerous IndyCar Series season articles (e.g. 2016 IndyCar Series, 2015 IndyCar Series over the last 24 hours. That user does not provide any explanation in their edit summaries as to why thy revert to a less accessible version of these articles. Prior to starting to make these articles compliant with guidelines and policies, I had a discussion on my talk page with Mark McWire supporting my actions. I even keep track there which articles are done and which still remain to be done. Lastly Drdisque also reverted Eighball's actions earlier today, so I'm certainly not acting against everybody else.Tvx1 19:25, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Well Eightball's edits and comments on Tvx1's talk page are extremely concerning here [1]. This is quite alarming "This isn't a debate, this isn't an argument, this is what you're going to do. You're going to post on the talk page of that article and you are going to SUGGEST the changes you made. And if people agree those changes are good, we will make them. You do not get to unilaterally decide to make those changes. You know full well that's how this website works. I do not care one bit about wiki guidelines. They are non-binding and I will ignore them as such. They are almost universally poorly thought out. You will explain why you think your changes are for the better, you will support your arguments with real evidence, or you will move a long. Act like an adult. " Canterbury Tail talk 19:20, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm most worried about the "I do not care one bit about wiki guidelines. They are non-binding and I will ignore them as such. They are almost universally poorly thought out" in that quote and the blatant personal attacks launched at me in this subsequent post on my talk page. WP:COLOR isn't poorly thought out. Quite on the contrary, it's carefully thought out to make our content as readable as possible and it also takes into account that there are wikipedia readers who don't have the ability to see color at all. Moreover, entire row coloring, like the ones contested, is not accessible to people using assistive software like screenreaders. That's why I can't see a good reason to blatantly ignore that guideline.Tvx1 20:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
JoeyofthePriuses has now posted a message similar to Eightball's on my talk page.Tvx1 20:20, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
To say "Act like an adult" is seriously uncalled for. His behaviour is alarming. I withdraw my previous proposal and move on to a WP:BOOMERANG. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 20:23, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I have now reverted JoeyofthePriuses' edits. If they continue to revert, I think RPP is appropriate until we can get this resolved. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 20:28, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Also, assuming they aren't the same person, this edit summary is very own-y. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 20:49, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Okay, there's now some major stalking going on by Eightball and JoeyofthePriuses of Tvx1's edits. Tvx1's edits seem quite reasonable and stood for over a week before Eightball (a very infrequent editor often warned for edit warring and attacks/harassment who incidentally has never edited these Nascar article's before) decided he didn't like the edits and seems to have claimed some kind of ownership on them. I say that TVX1's edits were good, made in good faith and were not challenged at the time. The disruptive editing is coming from Eightball and JoeyofthePriuses who are engaging in an edit war over something they've decided they don't like. Quite telling that Joey edited the main article at the start of this dispute after Tvx1's original edits and seemed to have no issue with them until Eightball came in with the disruptive editing. They should be the ones taking to talk, not edit warring and insisting Tvx1 should take to talk. I think a huge boomerang is due to Eightball and Joey here. That being said, Tvx1 stop reverting constantly. Canterbury Tail talk 21:08, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
You know what, I've done a skim through all of Eightball's edits and their talk page. It seems every single time they edit a page they get warnings for edit warring or harassment. They're WP:NOTHERE and I suggest we just block them indefinitely. Canterbury Tail talk 21:17, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
I fully protected 2017 IndyCar Series before I saw these last few messages. Maybe an indefinite block would be a better solution. Otherwise, it seems like we're going to fully protect a dozen articles just because of ownership issues. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:28, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
Canterbury Tail, I will not revert on any of the articles involved as long as the issue has not been resolved here. I have no intention whatsoever to cause disruption. I'm just trying to make the articles which fall under the scope of WP:AOWR friendly to read for all (or as close as I can get) of our readers. To clarify on my actions, I have not started doing this recently, contrary to Eightball's claims. The first time I made such an article compliant with accessibility guidelines was in in August of 2015 and these edits stood until an IP returned the excessive colors roughly six months later. I also made the articles on the 1986-1993 IndyCar season compliant with the guidelines in February and those edits still stand. Thus this is not a spur of moment, but merely a daunting tasks which I have been executing over an extended period. I then had a friendly discussion on my talk page with Mark McWire and have been gradually tackling the articles since. I takes time though. I try to do at least two article every day (in the evening) but unfortunately I don't always find the necessary time. Nevertheless I'm already over halfway.Tvx1 21:45, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

So where do we stand with this? What sort of resolution should we go for?Tvx1 19:15, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

While the MOS can in some cases can be ignored, WP:COLOR is an accessibility issue which affects lots of our readers, which means it should be followed unless there is a very very good reason not to. And I have yet to see one presented. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:20, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Yeah. As far as I'm concerned your edits in this area have been around for a while and as a result have an unspoken consensus, and some of the earlier talk has written consensus from other editors. It seems it's only two editors piling on each other that have issues. If Eightball and JoeyofthePriuses take issue with these changes then they need to take it to talk instead of throwing around threats and harassment. If they start reverting again without discussion as to why these changes shouldn't be implemented and going against WP:COLOR they'll be treated as disruptive edits. Canterbury Tail talk 13:35, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
I think there's also the question of OWN. The two editors' main concerns revolve around getting consensus for major changes. There is no policy or guideline for such. We don't have to reach consensus for all edits. It's called WP:BOLD unless you're unsure of the content you want to add. COLOR is a guideline to help readers with contrast issues. I don't see how that requires consensus? It doesn't. When Tvx1 made a bold edit, Eightball just quickly reverted insisting on getting consensus when it wasn't necessary in this case. While I do agree that Tvx1's behaviour was a little too much, Eightball's was worse. With various edit summaries from yelling, OWN behaviour, not citing actual policy, demanding a policy be cited, etc. It's problematic. This is all the same for JoeyofthePriuses. None of the users have been activate since their last revert and have been silent. I think their method is to let it slide and avoid consequences. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 13:52, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Actually Tvx1's edits weren't that bold, they've been making these kind of changes in this area of articles for months. And Eightball had never even edited the article in question before deciding they didn't like it. Canterbury Tail talk 14:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Actually, I'm afraid that at least Eightball won't let this slide. On one of the rare occasions I have crossed paths with them I have been involved in another case were where they posted to a noticeboard with the request of "tell the other guys I'm right", only not to edit Wikipedia at all for nearly two weeks before returning and reacting with this when they found out that the discussion hadn't gone their way.Tvx1 21:18, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Don't worry about Eightball. If there are any issues let me know and I'll look into it. Canterbury Tail talk 13:55, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
I find it quite bizarre that neither involved editors have edited wikipedia at all since roughly the same time after the initiation of this discussion.Tvx1 15:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)


User:Ettrig has a minority view of where templates like Template:Expand French and Template:Expand German (as well other maintenance templates, e.g. Template:Alphabetize, but he hasn't acted on non-translation maintenance tags). A discussion has been started at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Layout#Position_of_.7B.7BExpand_French.7D.7D_etc but Ettrig's view has attracted no support. Nonetheless, he has repositioned tags on well over a thousand articles, and he continues to do this despite numerous warnings (see User_talk:Ettrig#Please_stop_repositioning_language_templates_immediately). I'm involved in this dispute and cannot take administrative action here. Can someone else tell Ettrig to knock it off until he gains consensus? There is also the question of how to undo Ettrig's changes. Calliopejen1 (talk) 00:29, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Sadly, the discussion died out almost immediately. Last entry was 2017-06-07, more than a week ago. --Ettrig (talk) 05:53, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Can we start with the remedy proposed by User:Justlettersandnumbers here? Mathglot (talk) 07:19, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
No, absolutely not. What is needed is a real discussion about the best placement of this template. Maybe it also needs another form. My argument in condensed form: This template, when placed at the top, is a significant disturbance for the reader. It does not provide important information to the reader, almost no information relevant to the reader. The information provided to the editors is almost always obvious anyway and in a large minority of cases it is erroneous (the french article pointed to is a stub). --Ettrig (talk) 07:42, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
  • No-one except Ettrig appears to have expressed any agreement with the idea of moving these templates from their long-standing position at the top, along with other maintenance templates, to the bottom of the article. S/he appears determined to impose their view on the encyclopedia, by modifying the template documentation and then moving the templates. The order of elements of an article is set out in the MOS at WP:ORDER, but there was no discussion of this major change at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout until I raised it there on 5 June. In discussion there, Ettrig appears to be a minority of one - if "the discussion died out almost immediately" it was because of such strong consensus. I would encourage reversion of all these moves, which do not have the community's support. PamD 08:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
This statement was not true when it was entered. PamD themselve had expressed lack of disagreement. --Ettrig (talk) 05:53, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm afraid I find user Ettrig's attitude less than collaborative, even if he/she has a very valid point that the tag is often misused (and could usefully be removed in those cases). There's been discussion, as linked above, and there has been no support for Ettrig's position. Nevertheless, he/she has continued to make the same edits. It's one thing to be bold, another to to edit when you know that consensus is against you. I did previously suggest a mass revert of the user's edits, but had not at that time realised just how many of them there were, nor how far back they go. This would seem to be a task for a bot – if there's consensus that it should be done? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:32, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Collaboration and consensus means that when there is conflict the subject matter is to be discussed. I have tried to discuss, but met no substantive arguments. It has been as above, mentioning of supposed consensus. MOS:ORDER says that elements typically appear in the following order. This is clearly not a definitive instruction. Template:Expand French is not a typical maintenance tag. It does not point at a problem. It points at a perfectly natural state of affairs (when used correctly, which is often not the case), namely that the editors on the French Wikipedia have put more effort into phenomena that are near to them, such as French communes and Quebec. The beginning of an article is very precious space. This is where the reader starts. When this tag is put there, it stands in the way of the reader finding the information she is searching for. This may be warranted when the article has a problem that needs to be fixed quickly or that the reader needs to be warned about. But this is not a problem. It might also be warranted if it stimulates good activities. It does not. I have now seen a lot of these articles (about 2000). The vast majority of them (about 80%) have had this template in more than 8 years. Obviously, a person who can translate from French to English does not need this template to find suitable articles to translate. And if she looked at this article and found it lacking, with that language knowledge it would be the obvious thing to do to look at the French article for material and inspiration. I have now seen a lot of the articles that are tagged with this template. And beleive me, they are not the most important articles to translate. The typical such article is a French commune with 100 inhabitants that has a French article that is a stub. This template harms the reader. It provides no value that counterweighs this. This should be discussed. Voting is not collaboration. --Ettrig (talk) 15:34, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Ettrig, that you have "met no substantive arguments" is demonstrably false. You may not agree with the arguments that others have presented, but that does not mean they are not substantive. Regardless, there is no need to hash out the actual issue about placement on this page -- WT:MOSLAYOUT is the place for that. The only question is whether it is appropriate for you to be moving them en masse without gaining consensus first. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:10, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
I will also note that you moved around 50 additional templates after being informed of this discussion here. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:12, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
  • So, this is the way this should go: Ettrig should agree to stop moving templates until there is some consensus. Everyone involved should probably put together an RfC on the issue, and work out/agree to wording for that RfC, and then everyone should respect the outcome. Too easy. TimothyJosephWood 21:12, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
ANI is about incidents involving user behavior, not content disputes. Ettrig should stop moving templates around, now, period, whether or not there is or will be an Rfc. They are entirely independent of each other and should remain so.
Anyone who wishes to may, of course create an Rfc at any time, and they don't need a green light from anybody else about the wording or anything else in order to do so. Creating an Rfc is a proper subject for the MOS talk page, not ANI.
Pending an Rfc that may or may not happen, and may or may not support Ettrig's position if it does, the templates moved thus far should be rolled back, in order to avoid sending the signal to future editors that a unilateral change to an instruction or guideline without consensus along with an accompanying, massive unilateral effort to alter articles to their own PoV would be allowed to remain standing, and that there is thus no downside in attempting it. This impression would be detrimental to the encyclopedia, and could be wasteful of the time of many editors to fix the concomitant damage. Mathglot (talk) 06:43, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
  1. ANI is supposed to be about user behavior, but as often as not is about content disputes.
  2. Calm down. This is not Lake Pontchartrain flooding into the encyclopedia. It's template placement, and it's not really going to make an iota of practical difference to our readers where the things are at anyway. You all act like this is some serious material damage to content, when it's an overall exceedingly minor MoS dispute. It is pretty much hysteric pedantry at its finest.
  3. There's this accusation floating around that the user themselves added the language to the article, there have been no diffs I've seen of that, and from what I can tell it's been present for nearly ten years.
  4. The current language seems to indicate that the correct placement is at the bottom of the article, and I've seen no rebuttal to that other than the idea that people seem to have simply ignored that guidance, and the accusation that behavior in apparent accord with that guidance is somehow disruptive falls flat. You can't claim no opposition when you've made no effort to open the issue to a wider audience other than the user in question and everyone who happens to disagree with them and is therefore aware of the discussion, and do so on an page with 70 watchers, most of which are probably inactive.
Overall, someone should have opened an RfC on this a long time ago, and because they haven't, we've apparently driven an editor with 13k mainspace edits into retirement. Good job. TimothyJosephWood 22:45, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
(1) Huh? I only raised a user behavior issue here; there is no need to resolve the content dispute on this page (discussions are ongoing elsewhere). (2) I agree that it is not a grave emergency; that is why no one brought this here until Ettrig made over 1000 (and possibly over 2000 edits) along these lines. (3)/(4) The current language was changed by User:Ettrig himself, see [2]. It was left in this condition while discussion occurred, but only Ettrig has expressed agreement with this view. And how can you claim that Ettrig has been driven into retirement? He made 50 of these edits yesterday. Also, Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Layout has 505 watchers, and Wikipedia_talk:Translation has 263 watchers. It is Ettrig's burden to get wider attention on this issue if every other person participating in the discussion opposes his view. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:34, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
Clarification: I first alluded to User:Abrahamic Faiths being the first to challenge Ettrig's actions back in September. For whatever reason, AF has recently retired. Mathglot (talk)|
As far as I can tell, the majority of what the user did was copy/paste the guidance that was on the templates basically since they we're invented and transferred it verbatim to a related page. I'm fairly surprised that this has made it to ANI and no one seems to have realized that, and everyone seems to think that this user in particular decided this by fiat some time in the last few weeks.
This is precisely why users like me have been adding it to the bottom: because we looked at the template, read the guidance, and did what it told us to do. TimothyJosephWood 00:27, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Since your points 2 and 4 are about content issues I'm not going to respond to them here.
Regarding your point #3, the template language in question has only been around since August. It was added unilaterally without discussion by User:Ettrig, presumably to justify his subsequent or concurrent mass changes. Your impression of its being older than that is due to misreading or not seeing the transclusion, which picks up the 2017 (current) version even when the file you are looking at is from 2009.
The diffs you requested are available and will prove the point; they can be found at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Layout#Expand language diffs. This behavior is not okay, regardless whether the content change is an improvement . Mathglot (talk) 04:28, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Rereading the above, I'm not sure if that was clear, as I didn't really respond to your specific comments. So, I will now.
  • As far as I can tell, the majority of what the user did was copy/paste the guidance that was on the templates basically since they were invented and transferred it verbatim to a related page.
    1. No, that never happened.
    2. The guidance has only been on the templates since August.
  • I'm fairly surprised that this has made it to ANI and no one seems to have realized that,
    • That's because there's nothing there to notice.
  • ...and everyone seems to think that this user in particular decided this by fiat some time in the last few weeks.
    • August 30, to be exact. Yes, this particular user. Witthout consultation, and edit-warring when anyone challenged. I'd say that's a fair definition of "By fiat."
Mathglot (talk) 05:11, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
  • An RfC has been started here, and the user has agreed here to stop making changes pending the result of the RfC. So I think we're done here probably. TimothyJosephWood 23:11, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
This is now—what?—the fourth time you have conflated an Rfc concerning a pretty minor MOS content dispute, with an ANI discussion about a user's remarkably diligent and months-long massive alteration of hundreds (now, thousands) of articles to suit the user's PoV against consensus, following a unilateral change to a doc page which Ettrig edit-warred to enforce. Your repeated attempts to link the two either represents a misunderstanding about what a guideline talk page is for, or what ANI is for, or an attempt to obfuscate the issue here at ANI and dismiss a serious violation of user behavior concerning consensus and dispute resolution. So, no: we are not done here.
We will be done here, when the community has had its say about whether such behavior is acceptable, or not. The guideline on consensus says, Consensus is Wikipedia's fundamental model for editorial decision-making, and is marked by addressing legitimate concerns held by editors through a process of compromise while following Wikipedia policies. The behavior of this user is one of the more persistent and flamboyant examples of flouting this core guideline that I have seen in my years at Wikipedia. (I don't doubt that the experienced admins and editors here have seen much worse; but I haven't, as this is my first one.)
I followed your link above, and there is no statement there by the user. Perhaps you meant, this link? I don't see that the user has agreed to stop making changes, what I see is a nebulous comment that makes no such promise but can be interpreted however you like. But if you are right about the user's intent, then let them make an unequivocal statement about that here in plain English. Stopping the unacceptable behavior is the first step.
However, acquiring such an unequivocal statement is not the end of the story, but merely the beginning. My chief concern about this whole issue is the very bad precedent that might be set if we do nothing in the face of such user behavior. I fear that this would send a message in Wikipedia's voice that unilateral doc alteration and massive article change by a lone-wolf editor against consensus may be engaged in with impunity, thus encouraging such behavior in the future.
For a remedy, I call for no block or ban on this user; rather, I call for a rollback (revert, undo, I'm uncertain of the proper terminology) of all changes to articles[a] made by Ettrig since the beginning of this campaign (approximately 2016-08-30, I believe). For this remedy to have any teeth and mitigate future hazard it must be fully decoupled from the ongoing Rfc at the risk of encouraging rogue editors in the future; if we "wait and see how the Rfc comes out" it will only encourage the rogue-on-the-fence to take a shot at it. So that is precisely what we must not do here.
As I said, this is my first ANI, and I'm not quite sure how to proceed, or what happens next. I've stated what I see to be the main issue, I've described the risk I see of damage to the encyclopedia due to Ettrig's behavior, and I've formulated a remedy[b] which I would like to see discussed among interested editors.
Oh, I almost forgot: the rules call for diffs. Well, these aren't quite diffs (I'd have to supply 5,000 of them) but two rev history links should suffice to illustrate the point. Ettrig is a knowledgeable editor of many years' standing, having contributed to innumerable articles[Warning: long page] in any number of topic areas. Somewhere around a year ago, they started on this large-scale campaign of article changes[Warning: long page] to the exclusion of almost any useful improvement to the encyclopedia.
Now what? Mathglot (talk) 05:37, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Oh, and I suppose these two links would be useful here: these represent two attempts to discuss with Ettrig about achieving consensus first and stopping their unilateral actions. One is from last September initiated by User:Abrahamic Faiths, and the other from this May by Mathglot, when I first realized what was happening. Mathglot (talk) 06:12, 19 June 2017 (UTC) updated by Mathglot (talk) 06:58, 19 June 2017 (UTC)


  1. ^ Clarification: the rollback/revert should only apply to changes made to articles specifically for the purpose of moving language templates around prior to achieving consensus for such a move.
  2. ^ Giving credit where due: I wasn't the first to suggest the remedy, I believe Justlettersandnumbers was, followed by Calliopejen1.
  • What happens now is that you drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. You can't block an editor for an edit war that happened ten months ago, and you can't block an editor for changes that they're no longer making and that can just as easily probably be reversed by a bot. You can't make mass changes the consensus for which is still underway. What you do is take your thirst for vengeance and retribution, put it in a box and throw it in the nearest river because the things that should have been put in place months or years ago are now in place, and if those involved don't respect that, then you come here. TimothyJosephWood 02:03, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Nonsense. There is a clear consensus that the templates have been placed at the top. I would suggest that Ettrig make no article-space edits until he returns the templates to the top. If consensus were found that the templates belong at the bottom, that could be done by a bot. Moving them to the top would be more complicated, and probably could not be done by a bot. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:43, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Wwallacee continuing unprovoked personal attacks[edit]

Summary: Over a year after I last interacted with him, Wwallacee today used the opportunity of an unprovoked attack on Apollo The Logician to label him and me as a certain highly political but loutish element in the Irish Wikipedia editing force". I asked him to withdraw the attack, but he posted to the same page without responding.
Background: In April last year, Wwallacee took exception to an innocuous edit of mine to an article he was editing, and posted to the talk pages of over twenty articles on which he was not previously involved (apparently by going through my contributions), warning them of my "political bias" and asking users to "monitor me". This discussion at ANI followed which led to him being blocked. Far from being deterred, two weeks later he opened this thread at ANI with a 4,000-word essay in which he went through a huge number of my edits on articles and talk pages that had nothing to do with him, claiming that they were disruptive. In both discussions, every one of the responses from neutral editors said that my editing was and always had been unproblematic. The failure to close that second discussion without any admonition to Wwallaccee led me to withdraw from Wikipedia for several months. Nevertheless, and despite the fact that I didn't interact in any way with him again, he continued with his attacks: this, after the second ANI discussion had been archived and I had retired (notice that comments at ANI were "attacks against me by Scolaire's supporters, whom he must have contacted outside of Wikipedia somehow"), this in November ("Scolaire's disruptive and coercive behavior"), and now the "highly political but loutish element" comment today.
Just to re-iterate, apart from a couple of edits on "his" article – which were in no way intended to provoke him – and the ensuing drama, Wwallacee and I have no history whatever. The reasoning behind this persistant campaign baffles me.
I am asking for Wwallacee to be indefinitely blocked unless or until he acknowledges that what he is doing is contrary to WP:NPA, and promises never to do it again. Scolaire (talk) 13:49, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Having reviewed the threads linked above, I really don't think Wwallacee is ever going to comprehend that his conduct needs to change. His strategy is to attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees with him, all while accusing Scolaire of doing precisely the same thing. Lepricavark (talk) 17:29, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Yeah that was completely uncalled for and his not dropping the stick is problematic. --Tarage (talk) 23:25, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
In favor of a one-way IBAN? (talk) 00:13, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

This complaint appears to be resulting from an edit by User:Wwallacee on his own talk page. i think User:Scolaire probably needs tougher skin. Power~enwiki (talk) 03:26, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Did you look at the evidence presented in the complaint? Wwallacee has some very problematic editing habits and it is time to address them. Lepricavark (talk) 18:21, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
I have no idea of the case history, but this has already been on ANI according to the complaint, and the only new edits discussed are on WWallacee's talk page. Power~enwiki (talk) 18:26, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
If you don't know about the case history, you probably shouldn't be so dismissive of Scolaire's complaint. It's not a good look for an inexperienced editor to tell an experienced editor to grow tougher skin, especially when you haven't really reviewed the matter. Lepricavark (talk) 18:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
I can handle my own look. Do you agree or disagree with my statement that the only action Wwallacee is accused of that hasn't previously been adjudicated here is editing his own talk page? Power~enwiki (talk) 18:40, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
You didn't review the case, but you did give a far more experienced editor some condescending advice. And let's not use a strawman to distort Scolaire's complaint. It's not a simple matter of Wwallacee editing his own talk page. It's a matter of Wwallacee using his own talk page as a device for attacking another editor. Lepricavark (talk) 18:48, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
To put it even more bluntly, this board is for editors to seek assistance from admins and experienced editors, which you are obviously not. Blackmane (talk) 02:24, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Anonymous socks edit warring. BLP issue[edit]

At Ion Cuțelaba, "two" anonymous IP users keeps (re-)adding unreferenced information in violation of BLP policy.

Diffs: [3][4][5][6]

Based on the latest two edit summaries, seems that they are familiar with WP customs & policies, and as they are ignoring the BLP policy and are "warning" other users, this looks to me like some kind of wiki-trolling. XXN, 15:29, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

I've semi-protected this for three days. Please discuss the issues on the talk page and leave posts on the IP talk pages inviting them to the discussion.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:58, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Persistent vandalism[edit]

Resolved: Article semi-protected by Dlohcierekim for 2 days. TheDragonFire (talk) 13:10, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

There is repeated vandalism on the Vanita Gupta article by IP's. Mitchumch (talk) 05:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Requested temporary Semi protection at WP:RFPP. No point discussing here. Yashovardhan (talk) 05:43, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Beast Donald[edit]

I've tagged a large number of images uploaded by Beast Donald (talk · contribs) for speedy deletion as they are unused in article space nor would their use comply with WP:NFCC#8. The large major of these uploads feature the character Shizuka (a minor) from the anime series Doraemon including panty shots, nudity, or in other sexually provocative situations. On top of that, the editor only uses the account to upload the images or create new articles, but uses IPs to include some of their images in articles.[7][8][9][10][11]Farix (t | c) 13:03, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

  • Blocked and nuked most of his uploads. One of them may have been illegal in the US, showing cartoon children in explicit positions. Feel free to mark any of the others for CSD. Dennis Brown - 16:07, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Soumyabratabhat8974 - Exploration Mission 2, Orion (spacecraft)...[edit]

Hi. For about 3 weeks, the user Soumyabratabhat8974 frequently edit the "Exploration Mission 2" (and lot of other pages like "Orion (spacecraft)"") with fantasist or irrelevant assertions, that are always reverted by me or other editors. Is it possible to block him on this page ? Thanks. --FlyAkwa (talk) 13:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

  • He was already blocked two days ago and obviously hasn't edited since. You didn't notify him that you bought a case against him here, something that is required and noted at the top of this page. I have provided notification but you need to do this yourself in the future. Since they were already blocked for 48 hours, there isn't anything else for us to do. BTW, you would be expected to provide that information in your complaint. Dennis Brown - 17:11, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
    • My mistake : I put the notification in his "user page" rather than his "talk page". Thanks for your answer. --FlyAkwa (talk) 10:25, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Request block of User:Henia Perlman[edit]

This user, who says that she has been a teacher for more than 20 years, has been making edits to The Holocaust and related articles, but has not followed Wikipedia guidelines, had ignored advice of people that have adopted her and sought to mentor her.

She had been given warnings about not adding unhelpful or uncited content and continues to make edits after a final warning. The last edit was this edit after receving comments from here and here.

I am sure that there is not an intention to be disruptive, but there is also not an intention to try to work with others on the content to ensure that it is appropropriate and follows Wikipedia guidelines, such as being properly cited.

The warnings are posted on User talk:Henia Perlman. I don't remember asking for someone to be blocked before. Is there anything that I am missing?–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:00, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I am not an admin, but let's see if we can avoid a block here. I've posted a couple of observations at Talk:Holocaust. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:18, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
I see that. I hope some headway can be made.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:23, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
CaroleHenson, I hope so, too. There are certainly enough people trying to help her, both here, and at French wikipedia. I see your frustration, and that of others, and understand why you would call for a block. I can also see the sincere desire to help on the part of this new user, also, but I also see the disruption in the face of repeated attempts to instruct. I wouldn't be opposed to a short, narrow, topic-based block as a wake-up call given the situation but I just wanted to echo Yngvadottir to see if we can avoid it. My approach has been on Henia's talk page, here. Let's hope something works. Mathglot (talk) 20:35, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, Mathglot.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:46, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
I agree, maybe an article ban for the Holocaust article, that can be lifted when Henia shows that she is able to make edits that are policy compliant. I think this article is particularly challenging for a new editor, who may not understand why large rapid changes to the article are being reverted. Editing very broad and lengthy articles like this can be challenging and sometimes more specialized articles are a better experience. Several editors have suggested expanding more specialized articles and I'm inclined to agree that Henia should take a break from this article until she is more experienced.Seraphim System (talk) 20:53, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Henia would like to have time to present her own version[edit]

Thank you so much for trying to consider. I am a new comer, retired from teaching the Holocaust for 20 years (not mentioned in Carole’s message), considered an expert in Holocaust research and education, experienced with how the average reader can understand the wikipedia Holocaust article (thousands of my students read it) with personal Holocaust background, an old lady mentally challenged in some aspects, would like to use her time to constructively contribute to the Holocaust article and other history articles.

From the beginning, as a newcomer my good faith contributions have been immediately reverted, many times, without attempt to talk to me, and using all kind of wiki terms, subjected to rollback, warnings, accusation of being disruptive (I checked wiki: and it does not seem that my conduct was disruptive as a new comer, and threats. It is only lately, that I felt a more truthful attempt to help me out, but because of the past, I didn’t know how much it was genuine. I was let to understand that there is a group of people, carefully watching contributions to the Holocaust article. I understand, I think the reasons. But, it was very clear to all, that I am not a Holocaust denier, as I posted some material about me in the user talk.

The whole wiki experience has been very stressful, especially with the death of my husband, and almost pushed me to give up being involved in Wikipedia. I did ask my previous mentor to help, but I didn't hear from him, after I asked a specific question. So, I just asked all editors, to help me with technology (some have been doing that without my request), as we all want to improve the content of the articles. andI am crying writing all that! I would like to present my own version, in more details.

One can also read the history in my user talk and talk of the article. I am ready to actively listen. I have to go now as I am flying to visit my grandchildren out of town. Thank you for your kind attention. Henia Perlman (talk) 17:53, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

the only thing I want to point out is that I have no idea where the the idea that anyone was at all thinking that this editor had anything to do with Holocaust denial. That statement is totally out of left field and I'm not really happy with the veiled insinuation that those trying to work with Henia have ever implied, much less said she might be associated with such things. Other than that, I'll let the various talk page and user talk page posts speak for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:19, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
I am at a loss what to do at this point. It has been quite a unique experience, but hopefully those who have stepped forward might have better luck.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:20, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @Henia Perlman:, please take a few deep breaths, and don't cry. You can become a good editor at Wikipedia, but there are some things to learn around here, just like when you learn a new language or move to a different country. Lots of people are trying to help you, and I've left you a message at your talk page, here. Enjoy your grandchildren, and write to me on your talk page, if you've a mind to. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 20:40, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I don't want to second-guess anyone here, especially since I'm no longer actively watching The Holocaust, but since I had several interactions with User:CaroleHenson/User:Rachelle Perlman last month and have followed the situation off and on from a distance, I feel moved to make a brief comment and a proposal. I'm 99.9% sure she's not only editing in good faith but also trying to work within expectations that, for whatever reasons, she doesn't seem quite able to grasp. She said to me, "It is very difficult for me to behave as a digital native" (permalink). I offered advice in that thread, as did others elsewhere, and she has taken some of it. For instance, she visited the Teahouse, began using edit summaries, and stopped marking substantive edits as minor. So it's not that she's been unwilling to change, but clearly she hasn't been willing or able to change enough, and I don't blame the editors who've been working so hard to improve the article for feeling fed up.
    Proposal: in lieu of being blocked, Ms. Perlman agrees not to edit the article The Holocaust directly for a predetermined interval (at least the remainder of this month but preferably longer), instead proposing all of her changes on the talk page. In this way, she'd still be welcome to contribute but would leave matters of formatting, style, and policy compliance up to more experienced editors. If she's willing to agree to that—and stick to it absolutely—then there would no longer be any preventive purpose in blocking her. If she's not willing to agree or proves unable to follow through, then I guess it's a CIR thing and a ban of some sort may be necessary. RivertorchFIREWATER 03:34, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Agree - I think that's a good idea.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:46, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Support - I think this is a good solution. Paul August 11:10, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Support Agreed, this would be a good solution. Seraphim System (talk) 11:15, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Agree - Like you, and probably all of us, I'm also 99% sure she's working in good faith and trying to do the right thing, just having a hard time of it. I've made an offer on her talk page to help, and the unstated advice I had in mind is nearly identical with your suggestion above (although checking my crystal ball, e-o-month isn't going to be enough, I'm guessing e-o-Summer at the very least). There's also been offers of help from all sides, including on French wikipedia, where she has been running into the same problems on the same topic . As someone who has contributed to more than one WP, I think an interesting wrinkle to consider for your proposal, would be to try to determine what her intentions are vis-a-vis contributions to en-wiki vs. fr-wiki, as the policies and cultures are pretty different. Trying to learn one culture and set of rules is hard enough as a new contributor (even as an experienced one), without having to learn two of them at once. As she is someone who self-describes as non-tech savvy and raises their age as a consideration, that is a really tough row to hoe. Btw, I don't mean to imply she should lean more towards fr than en necessarily, not at all; rather, that she should consider picking just one to become familiar with first, and then, after she feels fully at ease with the first one (a couple of years, I would guess) then try the other. Regarding her topic of expertise and choice, it's unfortunate that it's one that is known to attract passions and controversy, as it just makes it harder for her here, and I'm actually kind of surprised that it's not covered under sanctions here or here. In any case, I have a lot of specific ideas of how to help her, I hope she takes me up on it at her talk page. Mathglot (talk) 19:13, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
(Post-script): I re-read your proposal, and there is one area where I might disagree, namely, in the part about raising her ideas on the Talk page. I think this will lead to endless discussion and frustration all around; I believe she should stay away from the article and the talk page, and either avoid the topic entirely while learning the ropes, or come at it from the non-controversial edges on low-visibility pages. The article in question is a member of eleven different projects, and any one of them could provide task lists of things to do. For example, the To-do list at WikiProject Jewish history has any number of articles and categories of articles needing attention [avoid Dreyfus affair however; still controversial a century later]. Imho, that would be a more fruitful way of learning the ropes, while contributing productively to the encyclopedia in a less stressful and less frustrating environment. Mathglot (talk) 19:28, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Mathglot, Yes, that would be better, if she would agree to it. So far, it's my understanding that she's only interested in writing about the Holocaust. It would be great to get Henia Perlman's input on this.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:51, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Mass harassment[edit]

Please have a look at the abuse log here. This appears to be some type of off-wiki-organized mass harassment. The abuse log seems to be stopping most of it. I've blocked a bunch of accounts and protected the page, but I'll be offline shortly, so more admin eyes might be needed. -- Ed (Edgar181) 20:57, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Vandalism on request apparently. Salt the page in question? It has already been deleted. Kleuske (talk) 21:15, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
There's also another target mentioned. Kleuske (talk) 21:18, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I protected Nudah after one edit there; not quite in the same vein as deleted posts above, so not blocking anyone. It was kind of an IAR WP:CSD#A7, anyone is free to unprotect if they disagree. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Crazybob2014 and unsourced content[edit]

Crazybob2014 (talk · contribs) is an infrequent contributor, but when he's around, it's usually to add unsourced content. Recently, I've been trying to clean up the massive amounts of unsourced content and original research in film articles. This has been an uphill battle in some quarters, because some people aren't used to having to source their edits. After becoming frustrated with this, I raised the issue here, where a consensus found that production companies need to be explicitly sourced. Yesterday, in List of Columbia Pictures films, CrazyBob2014 added unsourced content. I reverted it, only for Crazybob2014 to wordlessly revert me back in this edit. When I pointed out I'd already given him a level 4 warning for adding unsourced content, his response was that content doesn't need to be sourced, and my "unsourced rule" is "stupid". I honestly don't think Crazybob2014 is going to stop adding unsourced content. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:14, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Well considering a consensus exists, they've been warned against their actions, they've responded to (and thus read) the warning the next step here would be a block. @Crazybob2014: I'd be keen to hear from you regarding this -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 11:20, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I've left a clear warning on his page. We will see how he reacts to that. Dennis Brown - 13:00, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
    • He didn't react well. He's still restoring unsourced content. He finally added a citation in this edit, but the source fails verification – it doesn't mention Columbia. Can someone please block him so I can continue sourcing this article in peace without being reverted by an incompetent editor? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:56, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
      • Im not incompetent, im protesting this article. Crazybob2014 (talk) 19:59, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
        • Two things come to mind. First, have you tried to find sources NRP? You aren't obligated of course, just saying sometimes that is easier. Second to Bob, I'm really not interested in your protest. I will give you credit for adding the source (which is why I'm writing this instead of blocking you) but protesting isn't going to help. All contested additions to all articles require sourcing, preferably from 2nd party, WP:reliable sources, although there are some exceptions where we use less then perfect sources (like you used) or primary sources (from the company that put out the movie). No one is singling you out. On the contrary, we expect this from all editors. To treat you different would be to single you out, in fact. Dennis Brown - 20:38, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
          • Most of the sources in that article were added by me. I've also sourced the production companies and distributors in The Emoji Movie, one of the contested entries. I haven't gotten around to The Star (2017 film) yet, but it's listed here in Variety Insight's database. I dislike working on this kind of tedium – production companies, film distributors, etc are all terribly uninteresting to me – but, as I said above, I'm trying to fix a large number of mostly-unsourced articles that have languished for years. Several editors have objected to what the sources say, and I'm tired of dealing with it. I would like the area cleared out of disruptive editors so that I can get back to work on these articles. And, yes, I'm adding sources to the article for the entries that are sourceable. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:52, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
            • I appreciate. Like I said, you aren't obligated to, but if was just one or two, it's easier. There are a couple of different areas where we have problems with editors that won't source and demand their additions are included. Musicians are one, cinema is another. At this point, I think I've given Crazybob2014 fair warning and made it clear that if his edits are challenged and reverted, he needs to either leave the material out or go find a source. I will say that my standards for some of these are pretty low when it comes to WP:RS if it is likely true. It's the old "I would rather be happy than right" thing that I live by. If the source he uses is passable but imperfect, I would leave it until someone else finds a better one. That doesn't mean you have to do the same. I just try to not sweat the small stuff and instead focus on the contentious stuff. Dennis Brown - 00:31, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Rape in India[edit]

some people keep on not letting me add information from the Times of India report on India's Rajya Sabha - which is indian parliament upper house - being told about India having third highest number of rapes in the world. On the page Rape in India.

i used correct good sources. that can be checked on my version. but still one user said its not reliable source (actually times of india is of india's top newspapers). and when i add with another Google books source someone else deletes my contribution again and uses reason of 'last stable version' and other people keep on helping each other to delete my paragraph with no good reason. wikipedia allows everyone to contribute. (talk) 13:15, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Hey anon. What you should do when you have a content dispute with other editors is go to the talk page at Talk:Rape in India, discuss the disagreement and try to reach a consensus. The others, like User:Capitals00 and User:El C should probably join in the discussion, and explain why they disagree on which version of the article is the better one. TimothyJosephWood 13:25, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
@Timothyjosephwood: thanks for pinging. Certainly, what IP says is actually disputed by our better article Rape statistics#By country which shows that there are enough reliable sources that estimate other countries having huge amount of rapes and they are not appeared in the list that IP user is talking about. While there would be almost no argument against "no.1" candidate, dispute starts with "no.2", "no.3" and anything after that. Capitals00 (talk) 16:21, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Meh. Wouldn't hurt to post that on the talk page, for the sake of WP:BITE and all. You know, some people end up on ANI when they meant to click on the Teahouse. TimothyJosephWood 16:23, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Fair idea. Done. Capitals00 (talk) 16:28, 20 June 2017 (UTC)


Could somebody have a look at this user's recent contributions please. Edit-warring on at Lochtegate and Otto Warmbier, and some very aggressive recent edit summaries. (I have not checked the contributions of whoever s/he is arguing with, so make no claim about whether they are or are not problematic.) Many thanks. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 16:04, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I reported the user DonitzLiebt's edits at AIV, but I believe more attention is needed. This user repeatedly added Ryan Lochte and Lochtegate, which have been reverted by mostly Yoshiman6464 and others. I reverted one of the user's edits, but look at this and that. There are too many diffs to offer, but [12][13] should suffice. --George Ho (talk) 16:08, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I would also like to mention that the user in question mentions "white privilege" in the Loche article, but denies it in the Warmbier article. Plus, if you try reminding of the user of the contradictions in the Warmbier, DonitzLiebt will claim that you are delusional, like here, here and here. Yoshiman6464 ♫🥚 16:12, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Also, the user added in the unneeded article, Ugly American (pejorative), in both Otto Warmbier and Lochtegate. Yoshiman6464 ♫🥚 16:12, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
This user is also in edit war with me. I warned him 3 times, but he continues. I support this report. -- » Shadowowl Marcos Rodriguez | t | SPI | AIV | Sandbox | Helpdesk » 16:16, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
In raising it here, I had in mind mainly this edit summary and this one. (I haven't checked whether these are the same diffs already mentioned above or different ones.) --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 16:18, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Indefinite banned by User:John Reaves -- » Shadowowl Marcos Rodriguez | t | SPI | AIV | Sandbox | Helpdesk » 16:22, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I've just realised that I failed to notify the user in question in accordance with the requirement shown above. I doubt whether it would have affected the outcome in the circumstances, but nonetheless, I should clearly have done so, so please accept my apologies. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 17:45, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

No worries, Money money tickle parsnip; I already did. --George Ho (talk) 17:47, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Deletion and move request[edit]

Could an admin please delete the article currently at OnePlus 5 and replace it with the version at Draft:OnePlus 5. Please ping me on here when it is completed. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:38, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

  • The draft version is just a fraction of the size of the current version, why aren't you just adding/subtracting the text? Dennis Brown - 16:51, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Dennis Brown: Well, I tried to fix this, but before I could finish the round robin move the draft was recreated. I've redirect the draft to the article, and marked OnePlus 5 Placeholder, round robin for G6. So someone should come through and clean it up soon. Or if you feel like it, you can do us the honors. The placeholder apparently had copyvio issues too, so two birds one stone I guess. TimothyJosephWood 16:51, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
I just had figured that out. I was looking to hist merge the two articles actually. Done. Dennis Brown - 16:54, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Thank you two for your help. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:55, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Yeah... good luck with that hist merge. It looks like they were created in parallel. BTW Emir, you may want to consider applying for Wikipedia:Page mover rights. This allows you to suppress redirects and IMO is pretty essential if you are involved in moving things between main and draft spaces. Otherwise you end up leaving a bit of a mess that has to be cleaned up. It also allows you to do round robin moves so you can (usually) take care of things like this yourself. You've got almost 20k edits and a clean block log, so I don't see anyone turning you down. TimothyJosephWood 17:04, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Merges are easy with the delete/undelete tool, click a couple of buttons, then revert to the best version. It's just pointless if you have persistent copyvios. Dennis Brown - 17:13, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Socking and Series of Draft-like User Pages[edit]

Handled and moved to SPI. Dennis Brown - 13:23, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not sure what's going on, but all of the above accounts have user pages that appear to be drafts for the same company. CSD per A11 seems reasonable, but give the number of pages and accounts, thought an admin might want to look into this further. Perhaps an SPI is in order? EvergreenFir (talk) 17:31, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

It's highly likely to be one individual using multiple accounts. I can't really tell if this is some kind of attempt at advertising or promotion, or if this is just a misguided new user. I moved one copy of the user page to Draft:Kompas TV and deleted the others per WP:CSD#U5. Aside from a {{softerblock}} I gave Inspirasi Indonesia, I'll leave it up to others to decide whether SPI or blocks are needed here. -- Ed (Edgar181) 19:21, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
  • {{Checkuser needed}} Dennis Brown - 20:48, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
    • Checked. Katietalk 22:15, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
    • There are three groups here that are  Confirmed to each other, and I'd say they're  Likely the same person or persons. Based on the user agents, I think this is a group of people, not one individual. Blocked all, along with a slew of accounts that didn't complete the registration process. Katietalk 22:27, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disruptive editing by user[edit]

I have to report persistent disruptive editing by User:Jytdog. On the article of Alternative for Germany for months disagreements concerning certain content details have occured, however it was basically handled decently by the user community. A recent long lasting RfC on the article talk page concluded yet another question raised by the before mentioned user Jytdog. Nevertheless the user decided (albeit he/she seems to be experienced according to edit history and his/her given edit rights) to edit against the RfC decision even showing utter assertiveness in behaving so and showing to other editors as to be seen in history ([14])with edit comment "don't push it." though the content is against the RfC consensus. Recently another user edited the page, ignoring the RfC. Additionally it needs to be mentioned that the user at the time the RfC was held regarding the correct usage of the term ( German nationalism or Nationalism) he/she started to make massive edits in the main article of German Nationalism, possibly (merely "possibly" since i tend to be cautious with insinuations of such kind; yet taken the circumstances into account) to give somehow a broader ground for his/her case in the RfC in the main article of Alternative of Germany. I do not like to engage into any serious quarrel here, nevertheless as this dispute with the user goes for a log time, and behavior even seem to become more reckless especially by the fact him/her ignoring unambiguous recent consensus, (and also his/her threat to once again make an ANI) i bring this situation up here. I noticed the user at his/her talk page. --Joobo (talk) 17:41, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

  • I full protected the article for 3 days. Looking at the RFC, Jytdog does seem to be editing against the close at an RFC on the talk page, one that is recent and one that I don't see the close challenged on. Would like to hear their side of it. Dennis Brown - 17:47, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Dennis. The RFC was a) about the infobox (which I have not changed) not the body of the article, and b) was badly attended. It was what it was. I didn't bother challenging it because I challenged the last one at AN here and that got little independent feedback (what feedback there was, agreed that that the close was questionable). This close was definitely questionable but again i didn't challenge it and haven't changed the infobox.
I told "Joobo" here that I would be bringing an ANI case later this week (related to this mess.) and this ANI filing by "Joobo"| is an obvious and weak effort to pre-empt. You will hear more from me anon on this matter. Jytdog (talk) 17:56, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
    • Then I would strongly suggest you simply agree to leave it as "nationalism" until you form a consensus on the talk page at a later time. Right now, info box or not, the best estimation is that "nationalism" is what the community of editors on that article want, info box or not. Per WP:BRD, I think the burden would fall on you here to form a new consensus. If you agreed to that, then I could unprotect the article and we would be done here. Dennis Brown - 17:59, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
It has been "german nationalism" in the body for a long time, until this RfC about the infobox, which the 'team' has tried to push though into the body. It is a contentious article. It does not have enough neutral eyes on it. I have tried to get more independent eyes on it. Jytdog (talk) 18:03, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
I suppose my own feelings on this matter are clear, but the Troll accusing me of vandalism ought to start by assuming good faith. -Roxy the dog. bark 18:10, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany or the village pump is where you get more neutral eyes on it. The shortage you speak of is one of editors, not admin. It only takes one admin to block; it takes many editors to form a consensus. Frankly, I don't give a fig which link is used, but when I see what looks like a legitimate and unchallenged RFC on the matter, then as an objective admin with no preferences, I have to support the side that took the time to start an RFC and get a consensus. I've already explained this. I've given you a pretty easy out here, if you are wise enough to take it. Dennis Brown - 18:17, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice about WP:Germany - I had not thought of that. Ditto the village pump. I had no further intention of changing the body when the page was protected. I of course accept the "out"; there is nothing that I am "in" at this point. "Joobo" has no case here. As I noted their filing was purely pre-emptive and bad faith, and I will be bringing a diff-ful case against "Joobo" and their gang later this week. Jytdog (talk) 18:21, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
I've removed protection so everyone can edit based on your pledge to leave that one area alone for now. Now it is on you to form a new consensus. Dennis Brown - 18:50, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
  • User Jytdog has to be kidding. On his User page he states selfconfidently "I believe strongly in Wikipedia's Five Pillars." but then he cannot even accept the outcome of a RfC eventhough he is an, according to his edit history and user rights, highly experienced user? He even says "It has been "german nationalism" in the body for a long time, until this RfC about the infobox, which the 'team' has tried to push though into the body. It is a contentious article. It does not have enough neutral eyes on it" Apparently he has real problems with accepting something he does not like to accept. If one carefully reads the talk page and edit history of the concerned article most likely everyone would notice at one point that Jytdog continuously tried to push subjective views on the mattter on the article risking WP:LBL and neglecting WP:V. I assumed good faith for most of the time in his actions, I reall did not just saying so; even when other users gave up on that long before that as to be seen on the talk page. He it seems did nothing but accused bad faith in mine or other edits-just cause it did not conformed with his views.
Now he is again stating astounding phrases as "I will be bringing a diff-ful case against "Joobo" and their gang later this week" which are nothing but incredible. What "gang" are you refering to? Do you know what Wikipedia:Civility means? Did you ever hear of WP:CONS when it comes to WP editing (after 100.000 edits)? I have no connection to the other users at all; and mere disagreeing with you does not make us a "gang" or a "team" or whatever you like to vilify any other users as we are. This could actually already count as a personal attack. However, you deliberatly ignored points that were brought up, behaving as by other users claimed like WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. What does it tell about your editing style if you push the WP guidelines to the edge, and even if you initiate or want a RfC you still seem to blatantly ignore its outcome. This falls absolutely under WP:STONEWALL. And then not even to mention again the at least highly suspicuous, lets say coincidental editing of the article page of German Nationalism while the RfC concerning the inclusion of its exact term was still ongoing on the Alternative for Germany talkpage.
You can do all you like Jytdog but if someone takes some time and gives the whole thing a genuine look, also combining the parallel edits by you on the Alternative for Germany article site and the edits on the German Nationalism article site, the case outcome most likely does not goes against our "gang" but the kind of editing and behavior you applied over the period of the last couple of months. And quite frankly, i am absolutely flabbergasted that i have such a confrontation with a user of your experience and position of over 100,000 edits here in this project; as one might not expect that at all. But perhaps after such time and such amount of input one starts to believe to neglect certain aspects of this projects guidelines and pillars and gets a "i stand above it all" attitude.--Joobo (talk) 20:44, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Can't argue with the jist of this. I've seen Jytdog around plenty, and while they are an assertive editor, I haven't seen this aggressive of behavior before. Still, I don't have the full picture, so trying to reserve judgement and hoping he will cool down and accept the consensus, then work towards a different consensus if that is what he wants. Admin can't get involved in the content sides of these things. Dennis Brown - 20:51, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── and now canvassing of their compadre, Wormwood/Hayek. This is the kind of thing I will be discussing later but if "Joobo" keeps at it they will hang themselves, as Wormwood/Hakek did at AN last month (diff, already provided above) Jytdog (talk) 21:05, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes as he was included in the edits today i gave a notice to him that he should not be surprised for what might be going on. That does not prove your point at all and is once again a mere distraction of the way you behaved the last couple of months. But after all the talk you should know best what you want to do.--Joobo (talk) 21:16, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Read WP:CANVASS. Please, continue hanging yourself. Jytdog (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2017 (UTC)


Really long entry by L.R. Wormwood
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The WP:CANVASS allegation is ridiculous - this is AN/I, and I am involved. I have set about supplying diffs, so this can be resolved quickly.

Per User:Dennis Brown's comment above, I have also seen User:Jytdog around a lot, and he’s done a lot of work to keep POV-pushers off medicine and science-related pages, but his recent behaviour on Germany-related articles has not been especially edifying, and has resulted in an enormous amount of wasted time and misdirection of effort. With regard to what has already been said, User:Jytdog's allegation that there is a "tag team" at work here is fairly serious, and he has provided no diffs to support it. This will be impossible, since I have had no involvement with any of these editors outside of this dispute (AfD and German nationalism). User:Jytdog should therefore attempt to provide evidence, or withdraw the comment. I would also be interested to hear why User:Jytdog believes the recent RfC close is "questionable", given that it is 1-6 over several weeks.

User:Jytdog has been involved with several long-running disputes over the contents of the summary box on the Alternative for Germany article. Here in May 2016, here in March 2017, and here last month, finding himself in the minority, by a substantial margin, on each occasion. I am only bringing this here because I want to improve some of his recent changes to the German nationalism article (and to the Alternative for Germany article where he is ignoring the outcome of a recent RfC), and am currently unable because he keeps leaving threatening messages on my talk page diff, and in edit summaries diffdiff.


Context: Specifically with regard to the dispute on the Alternative for Germany page, the argument pursued by at least three users is neatly summarised here, where I point out that the historiography usually takes the term ‘’German nationalism’’ to refer to the process of German unification in the 19th century, and the ideas and contexts that gave rise to that process. This would also be true of Italian nationalism (and the Italian unification).

This point was first made by several users in the course of this straw poll, and was then repeated - entirely for User:Jytdog’s benefit - here, then here, then here, then here, then here, then here, here, and finally here. This is not an exhaustive list, you may read the full discussion.

Complaint: User:Jytdog responded to these comments by repeatedly declaring that he didn't understand "the problem". Here, for instance, he simply demands that someone explain: “What exactly is the problem?”. He does the same here with “I do not understand the opposition to this”. This looks very much like WP:IDHT to me. Here, he apparently, and perhaps deliberately, mistakes what others have been saying where he suggests that other users are claiming "that "German nationalism" means only calls for territorial expansion". This is obvious misrepresentation of the comments he "diffs" in support. Other comments consisted mostly of bald assertion, such as here. The only attempt to actually address the substantive argument that myself and others had provided was made by a German IP.

It is possible that User:Jytdog genuinely does not understand what myself and others have been attempting to explain to him (which would still be problematic), but I very much doubt it, and therefore I would suggest that the wall of incredulity he has put up is consistent with a deliberate refusal to get the point (WP:NOTGETTINGIT).

The same is also true of User:Jytdog’s behaviour on the German nationalism article, where in the edit summary here, he simply asserts that no one has explained their rationale for removing the comment, when I have clearly done so here, and the reporting user has done so extensively, as a cursory glance at the talk will confirm. I have also requested that he point us to the sources he is using for his WP:SYNTHESIS here, which so far he has not done.


I didn’t feel very strongly about the ‘’”German nationalism”’’ dispute – I thought the point being pushed was fairly pedantic, and I didn’t think it would generate much confusion. This is clear from my comments here, here, here, here, and the fact that I didn’t express a strong view in my RfC vote here.

What I did ‘’’’strongly’’’’ object to was User:Jytdog’s decision to re-write the lede for the German nationalism article in order to support his own position in the content dispute on the Alternative for Germany page, which I think is a clear instance of WP:GAME and WP:POINT.

User:Jytdog made some fairly substantial changes to the German nationalism article, many of which were useful (post-1945 content), but in doing so he essentially redefined the term. Whereas the opening used to describe ‘’German nationalism’’ as that relating to the German unification and nationalist movement in the 18th to 20th centuries (which is how the term is used by students of German and European history), having read as follows:

“German nationalism is the nationalist idea that Germans are a nation and promotes the unity of Germans into a nation state. The earliest origins of German nationalism began with the birth of Romantic nationalism during the Napoleonic Wars when Pan-Germanism started to rise. Advocacy of a German nation began to become an important political force in response to the invasion of German territories by France under Napoleon.”

After User:Jytdog’s changes, it now reads as follows:

“German nationalism is the nationalist idea that Germans are a nation, promotes the unity of Germans into a nation state, and emphasizes and takes pride in the national identity of Germans; the latter is problematic given the actions of Nazi Germany and ideology of the Nazism.”

The relevant diff can be found here. The lede was also revised so as to take the focus away from the 19th century German nationalist movement, and direct it towards the latter part of the 20th century, and the history of ‘’nationalism’’ in Germany in general, as is evident here.

He even claimed that his own re-writing of the opening of the German nationalism article validated later use of “German nationalism” further on in the Alternative for Germany article here (“correct WL in article” in the edit summary). This is despite the fact that the closing decision of the RfC (which can be found here) is very explicit – "Consensus is that the article should describe AfD's ideology as "nationalism" rather than as "German nationalism". 6 people voted, 1 for "German nationalism" and 5 for "nationalism"." Ignoring the outcome of RfC votes is always considered WP:TENDENTIOUS.

General unpleasantness and WP:BADFAITH[edit]

Besides the threats and unpleasantness I’ve received (diffed at the top of this comment), there is a general pattern by which User:Jytdog interprets every contribution which does not accord with his own views as a cynical attempt to “cleanse” or sanitise the page.

This is all, ridiculously, a dispute over a summary box, between those who wanted it to look like this, and those who would rather it looked this. The !votes and discussion in the closing RfC summarise the main arguments summarise this dispute (available here).

User:Jytdog has liberally insinuated that people who believe the summary box should be presented differently are pushing some kind of agenda. Here, for instance, he claims to “revert cleansing”, when he is in fact restoring obvious vandalism. This is an accusation against a user whose username is one letter away from Melanchon, which makes the allegation even more unfair and frustrating.

Here he accuses the reporting editor of “playing down the positions of this party”, on the basis that the user disagrees with him that listing 9 items in the summary box, each accompanied with a WP:REFBOMB, is unnecessary and detracts from its purpose per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. He does the same thing to another user here, leaving this on the talk. He also accuses the editor who closed the RfC of “cleansing” the article here. Here (admittedly a while ago now), he insinuates that I am an "alt-right troll". You are welcome to check my editing history if you think that is credible.

There is no conspiracy here. The majority of users in each case sincerely disagreed with Jytdog’s preferred presentation of the information, disagreed that things like Climate change denial were political ideologies, and agreed that his use of German nationalism was inaccurate. In sum, I think it would be best if User:Jytdog took a break from editing these pages, and considers in the meanwhile whether he is actually being fair to other users. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 22:22, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Note: I was given a block for alleged WP:CIR and WP:BLUDGEON several months ago in a related dispute on the Alternative for Germany page. I have not bludgeoned any talks since, and I hope I am more competent now. Before Jytdog attempts his usual well-poisoning, it's worth noting that (a) that particular incident is the only blemish on my behaviour record, and that Jytdog's block log demonstrates that in his case this is not so, and (b) that I had wanted a WP:FRESHSTART, but I was immediately outed by an involved user here and here, by which time there was an RfC on the page, so I thought I might as well continue there. Whatever he means to insinuate with the Wormwood/Hayek stuff is desperate and unfair. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 22:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

You may have wanted a fresh start, but you were not given one. Your block history on all of your accounts is perfectly applicable. Saying that it was your 'only blemish' is incorrect and deceitful. --Tarage (talk) 23:45, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
@Tarage: It is my "only blemish", I have been blocked once. Please withdraw "incorrect and deceitful" immediately, this is false. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 23:58, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I've hatted the above because it is bludgeoning the entire discussion and making it difficult to follow. Leave it hatted please. Dennis Brown - 00:00, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I've decided to leave Wikipedia for good in the light of this, and everything is concluded at my end (so User:Jytdog won't have to threaten his ANI report that he's been promising since March that he had no intention or grounds to write). My IP is semi-public (university) for some of the year, and that won't be me. I'm sure I can find more rewarding things to do with my time. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 00:55, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

As though "competence" issues and one instance of being blocked for bludgeon, without prior warning that this would be a possibility, would make anyone a "very problematic editor". I had wanted Wormwood to be a WP:FRESHSTART, but you immediately and maliciously outed me, which gave me no reason not to return to the RfC you set up. The narrative that I imagined simply setting up a new account would be a fresh-start is not true, as they are both aware. This will be my last reply, and I will request a self-block to avoid being drawn back in.
As the user below notes, this is not about me, or whether you can dishonestly portray any of my recent actions as "problematic", and you should stop - both of you - attempting to derail the report. L.R. Wormwood (talk) 13:25, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
This is not about L.R. Wormwood but about the user Jytdog who, deliberately ignores basic WP guidelines, eventhough he is a long time WP editor and selfproclaimed user who cherishes the five pillars of WP. Fairly detailed history of recent month long dispute now highlighted as above by me and L.R. Wormwood. Please read it and if you need, please also verify it yourself. Links and examples are provided massively. Do not make it about something unrelated about a question if a user is actually retiring from WP or not. That has nothing to do with the issue brought up here initially. --Joobo (talk) 12:41, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
You may not be aware that when an AN/I report is filed, all involved editors, including the one who opened the report, become fair game for comment and analysis. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:51, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Short block needed to get the attention of an IP-hopper using IPv6[edit]

Someone using 2405:205:A0E1:39F0:* (i.e. a single user, since that's what people usually get when using IPv6) is repeatedly adding irrelevant material on RCI (company), one of the largest time-share brokers in the world with operations in 100+ countries, detailed information about their office in Bangalore, India (one of more than 100 local offices of theirs...), and names of staff there, probably because of wanting to have their name on Wikipedia (see page history of the article...); so far having used four IPs in that net in quick succession, and getting four identical messages (see User talk:2405:205:A0E1:39F0:471B:4F8:59E9:744D), but obviously not having read any of them. So could someone please block them for 12-24h to get their attention? - Tom | Thomas.W talk 18:13, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

  • I protected. Kinda pushing the number of reverts since it wasn't vandalism, even if it was disruptive, so please be careful. Dennis Brown - 18:19, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

User:Mrakd002.302 Continued addition of unsourced material[edit]

This user has a long history of unsourced additions, mostly with a focus on music, specifically Stevie Wonder. User has received multiple final warnings, each of which was WP:REMOVED by them ([15], [16], and [17]). The latest final warning was not only removed but the issue was replaced to the article without sourcing (see [18] and [19]). Additionally this user has received numerous warnings on refactoring other people's comments on talk pages, including at at least one of the many AfDs of this user's articles ([20]).--☾Loriendrew☽ (ring-ring) 21:47, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

User:TheOldJacobite behaves like he owns articles,[edit]

(non-admin closure) Content dispute, please discuss on article talk page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:00, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:TheOldJacobite keeps reverting encyclopedic and sourced contributions in the article Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy (film) and only refers to a poster. He/(she?) behaves just like an owner of the article. Only his interpretations are valid and he has twice called me a vandal at my talk-page. He has just written one tiny comment at the talk-page. Administrative assistance required. User is impossible to talk with and accepts only his own versions. He even denies that David Dencik has a casted role in this film, despite three internet links and the fact that his name is mentioned in the film/motion picture together with the film title, director and the other actors as well as in the casting credits of the film. (As if he has something against this particular actor). It's the general behavior I haven't encountered here ever before which I find very troublesome. All other ways but his/(her) are vandalism, the user appears to think. Boeing720 (talk) 03:18, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Boeing720, issues about article content need to be discussed on the talkpage of the article, not here at ANI or on user talkpages. If you have questions or concerns, bring them up on the talkpage of the article. If you need further assistance, you can inquire neutrally at WT:FILM, or engage in some form of dispute resolution. Softlavender (talk) 04:13, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Well, that is very fine with me - however not with User:TheOldJacobite who (twice) did leave a notice at my talk-page, which includes a link to this page, and that he thinks I'm a vandal. I'm not used to make complaints such as this - and it wasn't really a question of article content, but of behavior (including example). I will however make yet another effort at the talk-page. Boeing720 (talk) 04:42, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Refspam and personal threats by Jesuslord4ever[edit]

This is my first ANI case. Please see [21] and [22]. But also [23] (Jesuslord4ever you can finally reach real admins here). Also of interest is the earlier issue discussed here: WT:MED#A_website_called_chronoleaks_that_seems_not_to_be_about_ineffective_methods_of_waterproofing_timepieces. My involvement: I participated to that WT:MED thread, I think that I rightfully reverted the editor's edits and warned the user using standard templates. I later by courtesy linked this editor to the WT:MED thread such that a better explanation for the blacklist of the site could be available. This site was apparently also reflink-spammed by another account before, prompting the blacklist decision which ensued. These links were also not to reliable sources and some were in a medical context. Thanks, —PaleoNeonate - 06:29, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't see any personal threats. Just the incoherent ranting of someone who thinks they can get away with ignoring community standards of behavior by bullying tactics. Not here to build the encyclopaedia. I think PaleoNeonate's blacklisting of the site was not excessive at it appears to be a blog and not very likely to provide a reliable source for anything, particularly not a medical article. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:58, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I was not the one who blacklisted it (this should be clear by the WT:MED thread), but I agree that it was a good decision. It's possible that I misinterpreted the rant as a threat, here's the quote which appeared to be a threat: Being admin dont give every right. Working at the NSA does give some one the right to delete the every putin email registed. Or making his mails public to your get what i mean ?. You think you acted right ? Noo your didnt, your acted uporn emotion, and an elite admin does not act on emoting. PaleoMeanate you Pseudo yourself right, remember online your never know with who you are dealing, so be kind to everybody because you dont know if its a test or not which I interpreted as: "You hide behind your pseudoname, but beware, ... incoherent threat of espionage, intrusion and/or decoy...". I'm of course neither an administrator, nor was any action "act on emoting", just application of standard practices, with politeness... In any case, I agree about NOTHERE, this part is obvious. Thanks, —PaleoNeonate - 13:17, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Obvious troll is obvious. (talk) 18:59, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Update: the editor was blocked indefinitely by Bbb23 after another attempt to spam the site on Wikipedia by other means. —PaleoNeonate - 23:52, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Editor making disruptive edits to Game of Thrones articles[edit]

AffeL (talk · contribs) was blocked for almost a year between 2013 and 2014 before receiving a STANDARDOFFER.[24] He has since continued to engage in disruptive behaviour including, but not limited to, OR, edit-warring, BLP violations, personal attacks, and IDHT (just look at how frequently he blanks his own talk page). His interactions with me go back a little less than a month, but he's been doing essentially the same thing with a lot of editors for a long time, an messing up a lot of articles while doing so.

The following is a brief summary of his disruption in the past week, the last of which led to a block for 48 hours from User:Yunshui, but this almost certainly won't solve the problem given the number of warnings and last chances he's been given. Yunshui advised me to take this here so the community can discuss the larger problem, although I had been considering ANI for some time.

Summary of recent behaviour
  • Denial of edit-warring charges based on a wikilawyer-ish "definition" of edit-warring.[25][26][27]
  • Copy-pasting the same IDHT response to a legitimate concern about sourcing seven times in a row.[28][29][30][31][32][33][34]
  • Engaging in off-topic commentary about how much more popular Game of Thrones is than its source material,[35] then repeatedly attacking me for responding to said off-topic commentary[36][37] and going so far as to directly claim that he wasn't the one who brought it up.[38]
  • Repeatedly collapsing my FAC comments or decontextualizing them by leaving uncollapsed only my first comment and his first (non-)response, but none of my further responses.[39][40][41] I had actually given him permission to collapse everything except my first comment, but he misquoted that[42] and later admitted to having not carefully read it before acting on it.[43] Not reading other editors' comments is a recurring problem with him.
  • Reinserting counter-consensus content with the rationale that there has been no specific consensus not to include it, even though there had been a standing consensus for almost two years[44][45][46] or with no explanation at all.[47][48]
  • Repeatedly claiming to have done a thorough source review of a long article containing at the time some 146 inline citations in roughly two hours,[49][50][51][52] hand-waving evidence to the contrary as "must have missed that one"[53] and dodging requests to clarify whether he means something else when he says he did a source check.[54][55] (Although he did specify what he meant -- I can to the "Sentence X in our article is an accurate summary of the claim made in paragraph Y of this source Z" thing at the talk page. -- before promising to do it, and he very openly did not do that.)
  • A couple or baseless accusations of sockpuppetry against me and User:Curly Turkey.[56][57] (I explained how it is baseless here, although I really shouldn't have to explain myself to someone who created nine sock accounts to evade their indef block.)

If anyone wants older evidence of disputes with people other than me and Curly Turkey ping me. Another more general problem is his poor sourcing standards. He has a tendency to add sources to articles that don't directly support the content, add "sourced" article content that is at best only partly supported by the sources, and remove maintenance tags by adding sources that don't actually address the issue. This, this and this are particularly glaring examples (note that the latter two are also BLP-violations, engaging in unsourced speculation about the romantic relationships of two actors and the career choices of one other), but the problem is endemic, including in at least one of his successful (!) GA noms. Attempts to broach this issue with him on his talk page have been unsuccessful.[58][59]

I'm torn on how to deal with this. He is essentially a Game of Thrones SPA, so TBANning might be too harsh. Technically an indefinite block is the appropriate sanction for a formerly indeffed editor who was unblocked on condition that they change their behaviour and then failed to do so. Another option would be indefinite 1RR, which would at least force him to use the talk page. Or, better still, 0RR. Softlavender warned him about edit-warring last time his name came up here,[60] and he's not exactly a stranger to ANEW.[61][62][63][64]

Hijiri 88 (やや) 09:07, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

  • I have to be honest, your treatment of the FA [65], particularly in the collapsed section is pretty harsh, Hijiri 88. You seem to be a lot more aggressive, and off-topic than needed. I've only been through a few GA/FA processes, but if you treated me like that, I would have just told you to piss off and given up. That doesn't mean he doesn't have some issues, I'm just saying your behavior there isn't up to Wikipedia standards. Your first paragraph is "it's worth noting that when nominated the article contained a very dubious unsourced claim about Dinklage's career choices, which the nominator added to th lead during the course of this RFC.[1][2] The original nominator (whose talk page I have on my watchlist) was the one who added this unsourced claim to the body last fall, and has a history of questionable sourcing issues, and pushing articles with said issues through the GA process; it wouldn't surprise me if, once one scratched beneath the surface, this FA-nominated article revealed similar problems." so you are automatically making claims against the FA nominator after saying (then striking) "I'm neutral on whether the article should be promoted as is". You seem to have enough of a bias/involvedment regarding him that you probably shouldn't be reviewing his FA nominations. Dennis Brown - 12:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
@Dennis Brown: Until I commented, an article with demonstrable sourcing issues (multiple instances of OR based on a questionable interpretation of primary source data, and a few spots of unsourced content) looked like it was going to be promoted to FA. That's not a good thing. Also, you seem to be ignoring the timeline: I chimed in with a neutral comment, simply stating that the nominator had demonstrated sourcing problems on multiple articles in the past few months, including the nominated article. AffeL responded with a series of off-topic comments about me and blatantly lied about having gone through every sentence of the article and confirmed that they were verified by the source in under two hours. Only then did I decide to oppose the nomination, after the nominator had spent three days insulting me, lying to me, and refusing to do any of the heavy lifting necessary to bring the article to FA standard. It should be pretty clear from this if nothing else that I went to more trouble to check the article's sources than the nominator did. Hijiri 88 (やや) 20:36, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • The rest of the claims are editor issues but I'm not inclined to block for them as I think much of this was brought upon yourself by your aggressive attitude at FA. The SPI claim, I would respectfully disagree with Yunshui on the block, although the block was certainly within admin discretion and the letter of policy. Two offhand comments could have easily just drawn a strong warning. AffeL is certainly wrong when he says 2 reverts aren't edit warring. Once revert can be under the right circumstances, and his grasp of some of Wikipedia's policies is obviously less than optimal, but ignorance alone isn't usually sanctionable. Dennis Brown - 13:03, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
You seem to be ignoring all the warnings the same user had already been given, though. He was EW-blocked for a year and was only unblocked when he said he understood what he had done wrong and would not do it anymore. Do you want me to go through his talk page history and dig up all the warnings he blanked without reading? Hijiri 88 (やや) 20:36, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
No, I want you to stop assuming that because my perspective is different than yours that I've somehow failed to do something right. It's a bit condescending and frankly, unwise. I'm not worried about last year, I'm looking at this FA, and in this FA, I don't think your behavior has been a model for other Wikipedians, which I've already stated. Your further comments have not dissuaded me. Dennis Brown - 00:10, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I know its a lot of work, but in the future it would probably be more effective to review the article for sourcing problems if you suspect this, out of respect for other editors who have worked on the nomination, I don't think you should vote oppose without evidence — it is a lot of work, so anyone posting thorough evidence of something like this should probably get a barnstar for bringing it to the community's attention, but accusations like this need evidence. Seraphim System (talk) 13:38, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
@Seraphim System: I tried. I went through the first several paragraphs, but that just wound up creating more work, because every time I tagged something AffeL came along, removed the tag, and added another source that had little-to-no relation to the content, or simply removed the content (with a misleading edit summary) so that I then had to consider whether said content was important to meet the comprehensiveness criterion. Anyway, reporting someone on ANI for lying and saying that they did a thorough source review that they obviously did not should (among a plethora of other offenses) should not require having done a thorough source check oneself. The article needed a bunch of fixes to meet the FA criteria, and AffeL (who also edit-wars while pretending he doesn't; see the first bullet point) made life extremely difficult for those of us who tried. Hijiri 88 (やや) 20:36, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Also, you should bear in mind how difficult it is to load the majority of those sources, with their pop-ups and automatically-playing videos on even a fast internet connection. No one should ever be forced to source check an entertainment article unless they are trying to get the article promoted. But if I had done the heavy (and I mean heavy) work to get the article promoted, the result would be AffeL taking credit for my work (work that he made for me with his clumsy reading of sources) on his user page and throwing it in my face next time I try to make an edit to the article he doesn't agree with and he reverts me. That's what he has been doing on the other articles I mentioned. Hijiri 88 (やや) 20:45, 21 June 2017 (UTC)


After my cresation of the article Worldventures User:Exemplo347 added a G11 tag. I removed it and started a discussion on his talkpage as well as the article talk (which he has not replied to) After he reinserted it I notified him of the creation of this thread he replied "Please, please do that. I'd really like it." He also broke 3RR by inserting it again. He seems to be biased with the articles content which leads me to believe that he is a paid editor. Hotelpool (talk) 13:42, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

We've got lots of biased editors who don't get paid a lick. Is there a specific edit that says "Paid editor"? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Actually, I've deleted it now. Since you started the article, you aren't supposed to remove a speedy delete tag, so frankly I'm not concerned about how many reverts they did. If anyone should be blocked, it would be you for continually removing the tag. What you created was unambiguous Grade A Spam with no encyclopedic value. Dennis Brown - 13:47, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @Hotelpool: Please do not remove CSD notices from pages you have created yourself. Please 'contest the deletion' and let the reviewing admin decide- as, indeed, they did. — O Fortuna semper crescis, aut decrescis 13:48, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Enjoy your day folks. Exemplo347 (talk) 13:49, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I have recreated the article. I will start other measures to combat this if this fails Hotelpool (talk) 13:50, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

  • Deleted again and salted by Black Kite. Dennis Brown - 13:51, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • No, you won't. I have deleted the article again, and if you re-create it you will be blocked for persistent spamming. Black Kite (talk) 13:51, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Final warning given - Hotelpool, I really recommend you cut it out, as I or another admin will be blocking you the next time to attempt to re-create this article -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 13:53, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Can someone please deal with this - Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Exemplo347? Thanks. Exemplo347 (talk) 13:54, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

  • Blocked 12 hours - we've all got better things to be doing here than mopping up inappropriate articles, arguing or dealing with silly SPIs -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 13:56, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I would suggest looking a little deeper into Hotelpool (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)'s contributions. Their 6th edit was a level 4 warning [66]. Within three hours of creating their account, they added a speedy deletion tag to an article [67]. Then this doozy[68]. Here's another grossy unwarranted level 4 warning [69] for this edit. This is not a new editor, probably a troll, and almost certain a sock of another blocked user.- MrX 14:41, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I'd agree. I don't care who you are, posting "have a nice block" on someone whose only warning is a level 4 you put there... nope. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
{{Checkuser needed}} Chrissymad raised some concerns that this could be Swissfishpool but I'm not familiar enough with them to duck-block.. A checkuser would be appreciated -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 15:22, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Then Chrissymad should file an SPI linking to here. ~ Rob13Talk 15:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Rob, and I've deactivated the Checkuser request. As an SPI clerk I'm not going to go hunting around to this-and-that discussion here and there to find the evidence. Put the evidence in a proper SPI and then we'll see about Checkuser. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 16:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
The Swissfishpool case is also  Stale for what it's worth. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 16:33, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I had already echoed the possible linkage and Bbb23 deleted the SPI, so he obviously saw it, thus a CU has already reviewed. Dennis Brown - 16:35, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Just adding this note here for future reference ... regarding the site involved; see also the history at WorldVentures (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 19:29, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

  • Yeah ... it could have been deleted as G4, though I'm quite glad it wasn't, as I've never been claimed as a sockpuppet at an SPI before. There's a first time for everything. Black Kite (talk) 19:35, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Spam and copyright violations added to article[edit]

IP added copyvio/spam content on June 6 to Wyke Farms. Later, user Palomalacy did the same thing and an admin hid the revisions for both the IP and editor. Just today, IP came back to remove the sourced controversy section as inaccurate. I'm not sure of the best place to report this so I'm posting here. SL93 (talk) 16:30, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Sourced controversy section failed verification; dead link - Listed as published November 2016, but accessed April 2016. Simply an unencyclopedic local article consisting of "He said, she said." I have removed the section. ScrpIronIV 19:17, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
It is the website for several newspapers in Somerset but recently redesigned its site and appears to have deleted everything that was there before. The Western Daily Press tweeted it ( on the date it was published; the access date was clearly a typo for 2017. It could probably be found in a newspaper, but I agree it isn't important enough to be mentioned in the article. Peter James (talk) 23:42, 21 June 2017 (UTC)


CodeEditor123 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Seems to be NOTHERE, but has been here for awhile, regardless recent edits are unacceptable. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:06, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

@FlightTime: Blocked 31 hours for vandalism, pretty sure it's just going to be a case of not being here but I'm happy to keep an eye out and reel in the rope when the block expires -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 20:10, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
@There'sNoTime: Thank you :) - FlightTime (open channel) 20:12, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

dispute over speedy deletions[edit]

i jonnymoon96 have been accused of making way to many mistakes which if i have you are welcome to reverse my work the dispute is with my latest contributions with speedy deletion Special:Contributions/Jonnymoon96 i have a dispute with MrX here is his quote on my talk page User_talk:Jonnymoon96 Please don't nominate any more article for G11 deletion until you fully understand WP:CSD#G11. You are making too may mistakes and creating a lot of unnecessary extra work for others. Please get a second opinion from an admin or one of the regulars at [WP:NPP]] if you think a particular article should be speedily deleted. Thank you.- MrX 21:44, 21 June 2017 (UTC) to be fair i have made mistakes before also here is MrX Talk Page User_talk:MrX here is our conversion on his talk page "thank you for your work and thank you for letting me know about your contesting Speedy Deletion i appreciate your work Jonnymoon96 (talk) 19:50, 21 June 2017 (UTC)" "Thank you Jonnymoon96. You should be careful about nominating articles for deletion because you consider them too promotional, including The Trevor Project and Graphiq. These deletion nominations are not in accord with policy or practice. I suggest getting a second opinion from an admin or experienced editor before doing any more nominations like this. I hope that makes sense.- MrX 21:38, 21 June 2017 (UTC)" i have complied with his requests--Jonnymoon96 (talk) 22:17, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Here's an opinion from an admin. You should stop tagging articles for deletion completely - and you're tagging quite a few. At least some of your nominations (I didn't look at all) for AfD are also inappropriate. You don't nominate an article because it's overly promotional as that's not a basis for deleting an article at AfD. I suggest you work on improving articles rather than trying to get them deleted.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:06, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
I am not sure why you brought this here. If you are complying with his request, then that should be the end of it. --Tarage (talk) 23:09, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • A look over your deleted contributions is troubling. I'm not sure how POPLINE or Daiya got deleted, for example. They both seem fine to me. -- Tavix (talk) 23:16, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Block review - impersonation[edit]

I just blocked Yamla's Brother (talk · contribs). Whoever this is has been setting up impersonation accounts on a number of Wikimedia projects. I have admin rights here and blocked this for evident reasons. I raise the block here in case anyone thinks I shouldn't have acted directly. Barring objections, I plan to keep blocking these where I see them. --Yamla (talk) 22:37, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

It's one of our LTAs, block away as you see fit.--Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 22:41, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Two editors writing autobiographies and not communicating[edit]

We have a couple of editors, PeterColemanUSA (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) and PaulColemanUSA (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log), plus an IP, (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), writing autobiographies at Peter Coleman (sailor) and Paul Coleman (sailor), adding subjective POV material such as this. There has been some attempt at communication (see Wikipedia:Teahouse#References and sources., Wikipedia:Teahouse#haven't heard back... and Wikipedia:Teahouse#Are "in good order" ?), but competence issues seem to be impeding communication. I'm posting here in the hope that we might get Peter and Paul's attention. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:30, 21 June 2017 (UTC)