Wikipedia:Bureaucrat discussion

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A bureaucrat discussion or 'crat chat is a procedure by which bureaucrats on Wikipedia can discuss whether consensus is present at a particular request for adminship (RfA) or request for bureaucratship (RfB). They can also be held for resysop requests if there is a doubt concerning the suitability for restoration of admin permissions.

Bureaucrat discussions should not be confused with the regular discussions, involving bureaucrats, at the bureaucrats' noticeboard and on other pages.


Bureaucrat discussions are only held when a bureaucrat is unsure whether consensus has been reached in an RFA or RFB. Typically, these are borderline cases, or ones in which unusual circumstances apply.

Before restoring the administrator flag, a bureaucrat should be reasonably convinced that the user has returned to activity or intends to return to activity as an editor. Should there be doubt concerning the suitability for restoration of admin permissions, the restoration shall be delayed until sufficient discussion has occurred and a consensus established through a bureaucrat chat.[1]

Holding a bureaucrat discussion ensures that the decision making process in such cases is transparent. However, as bureaucrat discussions delay a decision and can take considerable time on the part of bureaucrats, they are used only as a last resort, after measures such as extending the RFA or RFB have been considered. They are not used for all controversial cases; if the closing bureaucrat can determine consensus alone, there is no need for a bureaucrat discussion.


A bureaucrat discussion is started by one bureaucrat placing an RFA or RFB on hold. This ends the discussion on the RFA or RFB and prevents any more comments in support or opposition being added.

The bureaucrat then creates a subpage of the RFA or RFB's page, on which to hold the bureaucrat discussion. They start a discussion by giving an explanation of why they feel unable to determine consensus, and highlight some areas which the discussion may need to address. The discussion is linked from the RFA or RFB. Finally, the bureaucrat informs other active bureaucrats of the discussion, both on their user talk pages and on the bureaucrats' noticeboard.

To keep the discussion focused, it is open only to bureaucrats (other editors may comment on the associated talk page). Bureaucrats who have taken a position on the RFA or RFB itself are expected to state this and recuse themselves from the discussion. The talk page of the bureaucrat discussion is available for all users to comment on the ongoing discussion, and bureaucrats will often respond directly to comments made there.

Past experience has shown that bureaucrat discussions usually work best when they operate over a short time frame. Once several bureaucrats have participated, if agreement arises, the RFA or RFB is closed as usual. If no agreement among the bureaucrats emerges after one to two days, a common proposal will be to close the RFA or RFB as "no consensus", given that as a group, the bureaucrats cannot determine consensus.

Note: In April 2017, Bureaucrat User:Useight analysed Former admins desysopped for cause. Of the related 59 RfAs Useight could find at that point in time, none had been closed with a CratChat.([1]).

Previous bureaucrat discussions[edit]

Discussion Type Date Duration in hours Outcome Initiated by Closed by
Danny RfA April 9, 2007 4 Successful Taxman Rdsmith4
Gracenotes RfA May 31, 2007 134 No consensus Cecropia Cecropia
Cobi RfA October 10, 2007 17 No consensus Deskana Cecropia
Remember the dot RfA October 28, 2007 13 No consensus Deskana Deskana
Riana RfB March 6, 2008 60 No consensus WJBscribe WJBscribe
Avraham 2 RfB May 12, 2008 3 No consensus Kingturtle Taxman
Kww 3 RfA October 17, 2009 44 No consensus WJBscribe Andrevan
Nihonjoe 4 RfB November 25, 2009 82 Successful Avraham EVula
Juliancolton 2 RfB January 2, 2010 26 No consensus Nihonjoe Nihonjoe
Lear's Fool RfA January 9, 2011 47 Successful X! EVula
Mlpearc RfA August 11, 2012 16 No consensus Pakaran Pakaran
Salvidrim RfA January 13, 2013 24 Successful Avraham Avraham
Trappist the monk RfA September 16, 2013 24 Successful WJBscribe WJBscribe
Lugia2453‎ RfA November 4, 2013 36 No consensus Wizardman Xeno
SarekOfVulcan 3‎ RfA January 25, 2014 57 No consensus Maxim Xeno
Mkativerata 2 RfA August 9, 2014 31 No consensus Writ Keeper Xeno
Rich Farmbrough 2 RfA July 5, 2015 27 No consensus Maxim WJBscribe
Cyberpower678 RfA July 10, 2015 31 No consensus WJBscribe WJBscribe
Liz RfA August 4, 2015 37 Successful WJBscribe Maxim
Hawkeye7 2 RfA February 1, 2016 27 No consensus Avraham Nihonjoe
Godsy RfA December 5, 2016 36 No consensus WJBscribe Xeno
GoldenRing RfA April 7, 2017 40 Successful WJBscribe Maxim
Jbhunley RfA August 7, 2018 42 No consensus Xaosflux Xeno
RexxS RfA April 8, 2019 60 Successful Maxim Dweller
Floquenbeam 2 RfA July 29, 2019 92 Successful Primefac Primefac
Money emoji RfA February 18, 2020 107 Successful Primefac Primefac
Non-standard chats
In July 2018, a non-standard 'crat chat formed regarding a resysop request, running for about 70 hours before closing successfully.

Notes and references[edit]