Wikipedia:Deletion review

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Administrator instructions

Deletion Review (DRV) is a forum designed primarily to appeal disputed speedy deletions and disputed decisions made as a result of deletion discussions; this includes appeals to delete pages kept after a prior discussion.

If you are considering a request for a deletion review, please read the "Purpose" section below to make sure that is what you wish to do. Then, follow the instructions below.

Purpose[edit]

Deletion Review may be used:

  1. if someone believes the closer of a deletion discussion interpreted the consensus incorrectly;
  2. if a speedy deletion was done outside of the criteria or is otherwise disputed;
  3. if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;
  4. if a page has been wrongly deleted with no way to tell what exactly was deleted; or
  5. if there were substantial procedural errors in the deletion discussion or speedy deletion.

Deletion Review should not be used:

  1. because of a disagreement with the deletion discussion's outcome that does not involve the closer's judgment (a page may be renominated after a reasonable timeframe);
  2. when you have not discussed the matter with the administrator who deleted the page/closed the discussion first, unless there is a substantial reason not to do this and you have explained the reason in your nomination;
  3. to point out other pages that have or have not been deleted (as each page is different and stands or falls on its own merits);
  4. to challenge an article's deletion via the proposed deletion process, or to have the history of a deleted page restored behind a new, improved version of the page, called a history-only undeletion (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these);
  5. to repeat arguments already made in the deletion discussion;
  6. to argue technicalities (such as a deletion discussion being closed ten minutes early);
  7. to request that previously deleted content be used on other pages (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these requests); or
  8. to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias (such requests may be speedily closed).

Copyright violating, libelous, or otherwise prohibited content will not be restored.

Instructions[edit]

Before listing a review request, please:

  1. Discuss the matter with the closing administrator and try to resolve it with him or her first. If you and the admin cannot work out a satisfactory solution, only then should you bring the matter before Deletion Review. See § Purpose.
  2. Check that it is not on the list of perennial requests. Repeated requests every time some new, tiny snippet appears on the web have a tendency to be counter-productive. It is almost always best to play the waiting game unless you can decisively overcome the issues identified at deletion.

Commenting in a deletion review[edit]

In the deletion review discussion, please:

  • Endorse the original closing decision; or
  • Relist on the relevant deletion forum (usually Articles for deletion); or
  • List, if the page was speedy deleted outside of the established criteria and you believe it needs a full discussion at the appropriate forum to decide if it should be deleted; or
  • Overturn the original decision and optionally an (action) per the Guide to deletion. For a keep decision, the default action associated with overturning is delete and vice versa. If an editor desires some action other than the default, they should make this clear; or
  • Allow recreation of the page if new information is presented and deemed sufficient to permit recreation.

Remember that Deletion Review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question. It is an opportunity to correct errors in process (in the absence of significant new information), and thus the action specified should be the editor's feeling of the correct interpretation of the debate.

The presentation of new information about the content should be prefaced by Relist, rather than Overturn and (action). This information can then be more fully evaluated in its proper deletion discussion forum. Allow recreation is an alternative in such cases.

Temporary undeletion[edit]

Admins participating in deletion reviews are routinely requested to restore deleted pages under review and replace the content with the {{TempUndelete}} template, leaving the history for review by non-admins. However, copyright violations and violations of the policy on biographies of living persons should not be restored.

Closing reviews[edit]

A nominated page should remain on deletion review for at least seven days. After seven days, an administrator will determine whether a consensus exists. If that consensus is to undelete, the admin should follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Administrator instructions. If the consensus was to relist, the page should be relisted at the appropriate forum. If the consensus was that the deletion was endorsed, the discussion should be closed with the consensus documented. If the administrator finds that there is no consensus in the deletion review, then in most cases this has the same effect as endorsing the decision being appealed. However, in some cases, it may be more appropriate to treat a finding of "no consensus" as equivalent to a "relist"; admins may use their discretion to determine which outcome is more appropriate.

Ideally all closes should be made by an administrator to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal is applied consistently and fairly but in cases where the outcome is patently obvious or where a discussion has not been closed in good time it is permissible for a non-admin (ideally a DRV regular) to close discussions. Non-consensus closes should be avoided by non-admins unless they are absolutely unavoidable and the closer is sufficiently experienced at DRV to make that call. (Hint - if you are not sure that you have enough DRV experience then you don't).

Steps to list a new deletion review[edit]

 
1.

Before listing a review request please attempt to discuss the matter with the closing admin as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the admin the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision. If things don't work out, please note in the DRV listing that you first tried discussing the matter with the admin who deleted the page.

2.

Copy this template skeleton for most pages:

{{subst:drv2
|page=
|xfd_page=
|reason=
}} ~~~~

Copy this template skeleton for files:

{{subst:drv2
|page=
|xfd_page=
|article=
|reason=
}} ~~~~
3.

Follow this link to today's log and paste the template skeleton at the top of the discussions (but not at the top of the page). Then fill in page with the name of the deleted page, xfd_page with the name of the deletion discussion page (leave blank for speedy deletions), and reason with the reason why the page should be undeleted. For media files, article is the name of the article where the file was used, and it shouldn't be used for any other page. For example:

{{subst:drv2
|page=File:Foo.png
|xfd_page=Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 February 19#Foo.png
|article=Foo
|reason=
}} ~~~~
4.

Inform the administrator who deleted the page, or the user who closed the deletion discussion, by adding the following on their user talk page:

{{subst:DRVNote|PAGE_NAME}} ~~~~
5.

For nominations to overturn and delete a page previously kept, attach <noinclude>{{Delrev}}</noinclude> to the top of the page under review to inform current editors about the discussion.

6.

Leave notice of the deletion review outside of and above the original deletion discussion:

  • If the deletion discussion's subpage name is the same as the deletion review's section header, use <noinclude>{{Delrevxfd|date=2017 June 26}}</noinclude>
  • If the deletion discussion's subpage name is different from the deletion review's section header, then use <noinclude>{{Delrevxfd|date=2017 June 26|page=SECTION HEADER AT THE DELETION REVIEW LOG}}</noinclude>
 



Active discussions[edit]

26 June 2017[edit]

23 June 2017[edit]

File:James Thomas Hodgkinson.png[edit]

File:James Thomas Hodgkinson.png (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (article|XfD|restore)

This was a fair use headshot photograph of the perpetrator of the 2017 Congressional baseball shooting, used to identify him in the section about him in that article.

I think the closer erred in closing this discussion. Opinions were divided about whether the image meets the NFCC, which should have resulted in a "no consensus, default to keep" outcome, given that no one side's arguments seem to offer a particularly more compelling interpretation of the NFCC. The closer's reference to "precedent" is mistaken in that Wikipedia does not apply (binding) precedent, but looks at each case individually; this is even more so where the "precedent" is exactly one closure by the same closer themselves, and took place on a notoriously poorly attended forum such as FfD, where individual discussions can't amount to much in the way of community consensus.

The closer has replied to these concerns in detail on their talk page, which I appreciate. They argue that the "keep" opinions did not (explicitly) address the NFCC, but in my view this should not be necessary. The NFCC are a highly technical and obscure policy, which ordinary editors can't be expected to know by heart. The "keep" opinions make sufficiently clear why the respective editors consider it necessary to include the image and why they do not consider it replaceable with alternatives, such as text, or an equally non-free prison mugshot.  Sandstein  10:14, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

  • Overturn to No consensus, with no prejudice agaisnt relisting if anyone so Chooses, but no automatic relisting. While not explicitly citing the NFCC, those in favor of keep did make policy-based reasons clear enough that they should not have been discounted, in my view. I must agree with the nomination on the issue of "precedent" here. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 00:58, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Overturn to keep Sandstein, there are a number of editors who believe that NFCC questions should default to delete, because copyright. It's unfortunate that they're trying to impair our coverage of current events based on their own particular interpretations. Jclemens (talk) 03:32, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse as closing administrator. Please see my initial response to Sandstein's query. DESiegel, as I explained on my talk page, only one editor made an attempt to address NFCC, and specifically WP:NFCC#1. However, that was not the nominator's issue with the image, who pointed that out and was accused of bludgeoning the process in doing so. Sandstein stated: "It's normal practice to illustrate biographies of significant public figures" in the context of articles about the incidents and not the perpetrator. This is, to the best of my knowledge, not true. This also not policy, nor does it address policy – NFCC or otherwise. Philosopher and Doctor Papa Jones cited Dennis Brown's keep argument, who was addressed the wrong criterion to begin with, and Sandstein's keep argument, which failed to address any policy to any agree, for his own keep argument. AGreatPhoenixSunsFan's argument boiled down to "just showing a picture of the attacker in question shouldn't be a reason for deleting an image altogether", and again failed to cite policy for this. zzuuzz's "replace" comment and El cid, el campeador's "remove" argument were both misguided, so I discounted those entirely. What I was left with: Fourthords's (nominator) arguments citing policy, George Ho's argument citing policy, and Quackslikeaduck's agreeing with George. I did not see a discussion that would have resulted in "no consensus", let alone "keep". xplicit 13:52, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Overturn to non-consensus (which defaults to keep) though my own actual view is keep. The NFCC restrictions on article use are very restrictive. In interpreting them, we need to avoid making them yet more restrictive beyond the bounds of a reasonable interpretation. I've always though WP should make some attempt at consistency, but one previous afd discussion is not sufficient for binding precedent in a general interpretation. DGG ( talk ) 23:33, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse Just for reference, I am aware of one other discussion about this type of non-free use at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2015 November 26#File:Chris Mercer.jpg. I also don't think seeing the picture of Hodgkinson in this case improves the reader's understanding of the article content to such a degree that not seeing it would be detrimental to that understanding. If there was something particularly notable about his appearance that was related to this shooting that was covered in reliable sources, then perhaps using the image would be OK. There is, however, nothing in 2017 Congressional baseball shooting#Perpetrator that mentions his appearance at all. I think the arguments against this type of non-free use are much stronger in this case, just as they were much stronger for File:Chris Mercer.jpg and File:Rodger small.png, in that none of the Hodgkinson's actions or beliefs seem to be in any way related to his physical appearance so I don't see how WP:NFCC#8 or even WP:FREER are met. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:16, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

22 June 2017[edit]

Draft:Bust of Cristiano Ronaldo[edit]

Draft:Bust of Cristiano Ronaldo (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

The subject is notable per WP:GNG. There are Wikipedia articles about works of art that have received much, much less coverage. This article was nominated for deletion very soon after its creation, and editors voted to delete the article as a stub. The draft has been expanded, and sourcing clearly shows notability. I anticipate several editors who participated in the AfD discussion will return to reiterate their previously expressed opinions, but I'm hoping some uninvolved editors will cast a vote to overturn the deletion after assessing sourcing. --Another Believer (Talk) 14:58, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Additional sources to add to the article, not counting others published since April
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:21, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse closure - DRV is not a place to re-hash the same arguments already made at AfD. The consensus in the discussion was pretty clear cut, so absent any new information there is no reason to overturn this decision. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:21, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Absent any new information? The draft has been expanded, and there are more sources on the talk page, and there has been more coverage since its unveiling. And these are just the English-languages sources. Not to mention, the artist has since created a bust of Gareth Bale, so there are many more recent sources revisiting his earlier work. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:32, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse closure - It still does not make it notable. Kante4 (talk) 15:41, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse closure It's still not notable. Number 57 16:24, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse closure Still not notable. No actual addition of substance since AFD, the majority of the article is verbatim quotes from mostly minor outlets, and the few major outlet quotes are a simple review of social media's reaction to the bust. No real mention since a couple of days after the reveal, indicating the AFD wasn't too soon. --SuperJew (talk) 16:35, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse closure - good close. GiantSnowman 17:19, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse closure - uninvolved in original discussion, and can tell you right now that at best this gets a by-line in Cristiano Ronaldo's main article. I have serious misgivings that even then, on the scale of things, this is not a particularly notable feature of CR's career. Koncorde (talk) 17:40, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Expanding on entry seeing as there are some new comments.
  • 1. There is an awful lot of art in the world, and an awful lot of bad art. Wikipedia is not a repository of bad art.
  • 2. The piece was crafted for Cristiano Ronaldo International Airport and it's notability is associated with that airports renaming and the ceremony. If the statue is referenced, it should be merged with that article (and doesn't need anywhere near the amount of cruft).
  • 3. People talk below about Michael Jackson's statue outside Fulham. This is another example of WP:OTHERSTUFF. It wasn't notable to the club's ground in particular beyond kitsch value, and ended up being forced into a stub of its own which collected dross. Its strangeness of location lent it some degree of notability, which is why I could kinda see how it got argued through. Jackson's statue for HIStory meanwhile should be a stub for the album, but as the artist is notable and it went on a notable world tour of its own, then it has a different set of criteria.
  • 4. The editor contributes a link to other banal art, of which very few have their own article (I don't believe any do) somewhat undoing the argument.
  • 5. Any argument regarding the Gareth Bale sculpt should also take into consideration that it is an advertising ploy by a major betting chain. It is again not notable art, nor notable to Bale, it is perhaps relevant to PaddyPower, or if the artist was to have his own article.
  • 6. Filling an article with lots of words is nice and all, but it's a bad article, and very poor from an encyclopedic point of view. It is a blatant case of WP:RECENTISM as are most arguments in support.
At most this article is a sentence or two at the Airport, and references under Rinaldo's a page by the airport being named in his honour, but we should not be crufting this kind of stuff. Koncorde (talk) 08:53, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
  • @Number 57: In the AfD discussion, you said, "Whilst the bust is hilariously bad and has received quite a bit of media coverage, it isn't separately noteworthy to the subject." Here, you say, "It's still not notable." Can you explain how the subject isn't notable, or is simply saying "not notable" a suitable argument?
  • @SuperJew: In the AfD discussion, you said the subject was not notable enough for a standalone article. I suppose you provide some further explanation for your vote above, but I wouldn't call the publications used in the draft minor. In fact, I don't think any of the sources used are inappropriate or non-notable, and they all have Wikipedia articles of their own. How are these minor publications?
  • @Kante4: In the AfD discussion, you said the subject was "not notable enough", and above you said, It still does not make it notable". Can you explain how the subject isn't notable, or is simply saying "not notable" a suitable argument?
  • @GiantSnowman: In the AfD discussion, you simply said, "does not merit a separate article". Above you say just "good close". Can you explain how the subject isn't notable, or is simply saying "not notable" a suitable argument?
IMO, this work of art has received a suitable amount of coverage in reliable sources to justify a standalone article. This draft is much longer than the article that was marked for AfD, and there are quite a few additional sources posted on the draft's talk page. Not to mention, there are more sources to add that have been published since April. I'd appreciate more detailed reasons why this draft is not appropriate for Wikipedia.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I'm frustrated that I'm having to fight an uphill battle to publish an article with this much sourcing when I'm not seeing detailed reasons, based on policy, for its removal. I know I'm probably coming across as a sore loser, and here I was told to "move on", but I have been through the process of saving a deleted article before (which was promoted to Good status), and I do mean well by coming to this venue to request reevaluation. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:48, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Weak Support Overturn - the varied and extent of the coverage the topic of the article has received passes WP:GNG in my opinion although its overall significance to Cristiano Ronaldo's carrier is another matter. Inter&anthro (talk) 21:18, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
    • @Inter&anthro: could you be more explicit about which side you're arguing? In these discussions, people generally either say, endorse, which means they think the deletion was correct, or overturn, which means they think the deletion was in error. It's not entirely clear reading your comments which of those you're arguing for. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:56, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Hi RoySmith I apologize I am unfamiliar with the process, I meant to say that I was supporting the recreation of this article. Inter&anthro (talk) 00:03, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Thanks. No worries about being unfamiliar. We're happy to have new people get involved in the project. -- RoySmith (talk) 11:46, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Support reinstatement The notability is mainly based on the avalanche of mocking comments in the mainstream media and social media that followed its unveiling. This was an noteworthy phenomenon, and it has made this sculpture notorious, which is a form of notability. We should not be swayed by this being called "bad art". It might be considered part of a movement of kitsch or banal art, which could include:
This is to give some context to Santos's sculpture, which I do not rate as having the quality of Koons' work. This sculpture follows a style that has been established for other football-related sculptures, see here.
Santos's sculpture of Gareth Bale opens the possibility of covering both these sculptures in an article on the sculptor. However, his sculpture of Ronaldo is more notable than its sculptor, and I support the promotion of Draft:Bust of Cristiano Ronaldo to article space. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:28, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Moot You don't need to be at DRV to put this back into mainspace. Several new references have been added since the close, including New York Times, BBC, Independent, and Telegraph. That appears to solidly establish the GNG is met for the topic just with the new references! Several arguments made in the AfD were non-policy-based (e.g., NOTNEWS never applied at all), and I am not convinced by the arguments supporting the original AfD close. I'll further note that the original AfD closer is not an administrator, and likely should not have closed the contested AfD in the first place... Jclemens (talk) 07:11, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

21 June 2017[edit]

Draft:Lely (Company)[edit]

Draft:Lely (Company) (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (restore)

Page was in Draft, still actively work in progress. I worked according to Wikipedia's guidelines and regulations, and have no intention of breaking them. As explained to admin, I was drafting a page about a notable company which I can further explain. This is an internationally active company which already has Wikipedia pages in other languages. Attempt to reason with the respective admin failed, unfortunately, I have not heard back since. I feel disappointed and slightly offended. I do not see any reason why this company does not deserve a page on English Wikipedia, nor do I understand why any chance to draft such a page should be nipped in the bud. Dvanleerdam (talk) 14:39, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

  • The page was deleted under WP:CSD#G11, which means that it was promoting the subject. I can see why the deleting admin came to this conclusion: despite being only 53 words long it described the company as a "leading" manufacturer and gave a series of impressive statistics about how big the company was. This is considered a serious problem even with drafts, as a promotional draft still acts to promote the company even though it's only a draft. Given your user page (which says you're a contractor who works with this company) I suggest you read our guidelines on conflict of interest. Hut 8.5 18:03, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • I'd have speedied this if it were in mainspace, though I'd have thought it was borderline. In draftspace, it wasn't so promotional that it needed to be tagged within two minutes of creation and deleted within half an hour. —Cryptic 18:36, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Overturn and Restore to draft space. Those statistics, while possibly serving a promotional purpose, are presumably objective facts, and "leading" while a judgement, is the kind of judgement often included in valid company articles (although it should be sourced, as should the stats). Had I seen this tagged for G11 in mainspace, I would have declined the speedy and warned the tagger, and I am surprised atFortuna Imperatrix Mundi for tagging this in draft space, where somewhat more leeway should be given. I am even more suprised at Jimfbleak for doing the dewletion. There does seem to be a COI here, but that is not a reason to delete, speedy or otherwise. G11 is for blatent promotionalism, requiring a total rewrite, which in my view this was not even close to. That said, Dvanleerdam, deletion for promotional content never reflects on the validity of the subject, merely on how it is being described. A more objective version should always handle a proper G11 deletion. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 19:26, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Lely (company) war speedied from mainspace in 2011 for the same reason.
    User:Dvanleerdam, the guideline covering the usual decision process for whether this company will ever be suitable for inclusion is Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies), beginning with the statement: "... has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources". Wikipedia is not a directory of all companies, or of all big companies, successful companies, good companies, or any other variation of selection, except for companies that are already the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Before starting an article on any company, be sure to have multiple such sources, each all of (1) contains significant coverage; (2) source is reliable; (3) source, author, published are independent of the company; (4) the coverage is secondary source coverage, meaning it is commentary, comparisons, analysis, etc, and is not just repeating facts. A yet better way to get started is to find coverage of the company in existing articles, and improve content making mention in those articles. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:22, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Overturn and restore to draft While I appreciate the vigor with which some admins go after promotional material, draft space is the one spot where we should have borderline cases (NOINDEX'ed, obviously) in the process of refining promotional copy and making it encyclopedic. Do we actually need to change CSD to say G11 doesn't apply to draft? We seem to be overturning a lot of these. Jclemens (talk) 01:48, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

19 June 2017[edit]


Recent discussions[edit]

18 June 2017[edit]

16 June 2017[edit]

14 June 2017[edit]

13 June 2017[edit]

12 June 2017[edit]

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