Wikipedia:Deletion review

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Administrator instructions

Deletion Review (DRV) is a forum designed primarily to appeal disputed speedy deletions and disputed decisions made as a result of deletion discussions; this includes appeals to delete pages kept after a prior discussion.

If you are considering a request for a deletion review, please read the "Purpose" section below to make sure that is what you wish to do. Then, follow the instructions below.

Purpose[edit]

Deletion Review may be used:

  1. if someone believes the closer of a deletion discussion interpreted the consensus incorrectly;
  2. if a speedy deletion was done outside of the criteria or is otherwise disputed;
  3. if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;
  4. if a page has been wrongly deleted with no way to tell what exactly was deleted; or
  5. if there were substantial procedural errors in the deletion discussion or speedy deletion.

Deletion Review should not be used:

  1. because of a disagreement with the deletion discussion's outcome that does not involve the closer's judgment (a page may be renominated after a reasonable timeframe);
  2. when you have not discussed the matter with the administrator who deleted the page/closed the discussion first, unless there is a substantial reason not to do this and you have explained the reason in your nomination;
  3. to point out other pages that have or have not been deleted (as each page is different and stands or falls on its own merits);
  4. to challenge an article's deletion via the proposed deletion process, or to have the history of a deleted page restored behind a new, improved version of the page, called a history-only undeletion (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these);
  5. to repeat arguments already made in the deletion discussion;
  6. to argue technicalities (such as a deletion discussion being closed ten minutes early);
  7. to request that previously deleted content be used on other pages (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these requests); or
  8. to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias (such requests may be speedily closed).

Copyright violating, libelous, or otherwise prohibited content will not be restored.

Instructions[edit]

Before listing a review request, please:

  1. Discuss the matter with the closing administrator and try to resolve it with him or her first. If you and the admin cannot work out a satisfactory solution, only then should you bring the matter before Deletion Review. See § Purpose.
  2. Check that it is not on the list of perennial requests. Repeated requests every time some new, tiny snippet appears on the web have a tendency to be counter-productive. It is almost always best to play the waiting game unless you can decisively overcome the issues identified at deletion.

Commenting in a deletion review[edit]

Any editor may express his or her opinion about an article or file being considered for deletion review. In the deletion review discussion, please type one of the following opinions preceded by an asterisk (*) and surrounded by three apostrophes (''') on either side. If you have additional thoughts to share, you may type this after the opinion. Place four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your entry, which should be placed below the entries of any previous editors:

  • Endorse the original closing decision; or
  • Relist on the relevant deletion forum (usually Articles for deletion); or
  • List, if the page was speedy deleted outside of the established criteria and you believe it needs a full discussion at the appropriate forum to decide if it should be deleted; or
  • Overturn the original decision and optionally an (action) per the Guide to deletion. For a keep decision, the default action associated with overturning is delete and vice versa. If an editor desires some action other than the default, they should make this clear; or
  • Allow recreation of the page if new information is presented and deemed sufficient to permit recreation.

Remember that Deletion Review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question. It is an opportunity to correct errors in process (in the absence of significant new information), and thus the action specified should be the editor's feeling of the correct interpretation of the debate.

The presentation of new information about the content should be prefaced by Relist, rather than Overturn and (action). This information can then be more fully evaluated in its proper deletion discussion forum. Allow recreation is an alternative in such cases.

Temporary undeletion[edit]

Admins participating in deletion reviews are routinely requested to restore deleted pages under review and replace the content with the {{TempUndelete}} template, leaving the history for review by non-admins. However, copyright violations and violations of the policy on biographies of living persons should not be restored.

Closing reviews[edit]

A nominated page should remain on deletion review for at least seven days. After seven days, an administrator will determine whether a consensus exists. If that consensus is to undelete, the admin should follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Administrator instructions. If the consensus was to relist, the page should be relisted at the appropriate forum. If the consensus was that the deletion was endorsed, the discussion should be closed with the consensus documented. If the administrator finds that there is no consensus in the deletion review, then in most cases this has the same effect as endorsing the decision being appealed. However, in some cases, it may be more appropriate to treat a finding of "no consensus" as equivalent to a "relist"; admins may use their discretion to determine which outcome is more appropriate.

If a speedy deletion is appealed, the closer should treat a lack of consensus as a direction to overturn the deletion, since it indicates that the deletion was not uncontroversial (which is a requirement of almost all criteria for speedy deletion). Any editor may then nominate the page at the appropriate deletion discussion forum. But such nomination is in no way required, if no editor sees reason to nominate.

Ideally all closes should be made by an administrator to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal is applied consistently and fairly but in cases where the outcome is patently obvious or where a discussion has not been closed in good time it is permissible for a non-admin (ideally a DRV regular) to close discussions. Non-consensus closes should be avoided by non-admins unless they are absolutely unavoidable and the closer is sufficiently experienced at DRV to make that call. (Hint - if you are not sure that you have enough DRV experience then you don't).

Steps to list a new deletion review[edit]

 
1.

Before listing a review request please attempt to discuss the matter with the closing admin as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the admin the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision. If things don't work out, please note in the DRV listing that you first tried discussing the matter with the admin who deleted the page.

2.

Copy this template skeleton for most pages:

{{subst:drv2
|page=
|xfd_page=
|reason=
}} ~~~~

Copy this template skeleton for files:

{{subst:drv2
|page=
|xfd_page=
|article=
|reason=
}} ~~~~
3.

Follow this link to today's log and paste the template skeleton at the top of the discussions (but not at the top of the page). Then fill in page with the name of the deleted page, xfd_page with the name of the deletion discussion page (leave blank for speedy deletions), and reason with the reason why the page should be undeleted. For media files, article is the name of the article where the file was used, and it shouldn't be used for any other page. For example:

{{subst:drv2
|page=File:Foo.png
|xfd_page=Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 February 19#Foo.png
|article=Foo
|reason=
}} ~~~~
4.

Inform the administrator who deleted the page, or the user who closed the deletion discussion, by adding the following on their user talk page:

{{subst:DRVNote|PAGE_NAME}} ~~~~
5.

For nominations to overturn and delete a page previously kept, attach <noinclude>{{Delrev}}</noinclude> to the top of the page under review to inform current editors about the discussion.

6.

Leave notice of the deletion review outside of and above the original deletion discussion:

  • If the deletion discussion's subpage name is the same as the deletion review's section header, use <noinclude>{{Delrevxfd|date=2017 October 21}}</noinclude>
  • If the deletion discussion's subpage name is different from the deletion review's section header, then use <noinclude>{{Delrevxfd|date=2017 October 21|page=SECTION HEADER AT THE DELETION REVIEW LOG}}</noinclude>
 



Active discussions[edit]

21 October 2017[edit]

20 October 2017[edit]

Lý Thuần An[edit]

Lý Thuần An (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

I assert there was not a consensus to "keep" as only one editor posited a GNG claim; it's unclear if the other made a NPOL argument or INHERITED. The lack of keep rationales seems to point to a delete outcome. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:21, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Weak endorse or if you want, weak overturn to no consensus. There was not a consensus to delete. Being posthumously declared king is arguably ANYBIO1, and while no one appealed to that, it was the gist of what those arguing keep were saying. I saw this on the first close and thought NC would be a better option, because Chris' best argument was the verifiability claim (WP:DEL7), which was slightly addressed, but participants didn't come to a conclusion on. Why weak endorse? The outcome is the same so I don't see the point in overturning to NC, but wouldn't object to it. I also think it'd be reasonable to hold a merge discussion or boldly redirect it and see where that goes. I don't see a consensus to delete in that AfD, however. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:42, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse -
Some background: I closed this AfD as keep, then at the request of Chris troutman I reopened & relisted as it was a non-admin closure. It was then closed as keep by the admin Kudpung.
Note: the article which was originally titled Lý Thuần An has been changed to an alternate romanisation of Li Chun'an.
Subject: The subject is a chinese merchant and politician who lived in the 9th century, he was the son of a prominent 5 dynasties period official and father of emperor Lý Công Uẩn, the founder of a Vietnamese dynasty. (Note: A dynasty is roughly what we would call a country or state, an 'official' is the equivalent of prime minster or cabinet minister/senator, however they hold the position for life.) After his death, his son, then the emperor, granted him the rank of 'King', although he had not been one in his lifetime.
Sources: The subject is discussed in two reliable sources which Wikipedians have been able to read. The Chinese official history confirms his existence, as do several reliable western works cited in the article. Other sources are cited in the article, which I have not read. Due to the lack of people who speak Chinese and Vietnamese, finding more sources is unlikely at this stage.
Claims to notability.
A. WP:NPOL Criterion 1. As a politician who held a national post equivalent to transport minister.
B. WP:GNG With two reliable sources, this deceased person from a time-period in antiquity meets the general notability guideline.
C. WP:ANYBIO Criterion 1. as the recipient of a highest honor bestowed by the leader of an independent state. This award was both well known and significant, the award of which is still known 1100 years later.
> Dysklyver 20:08, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse We don't judge arguments simply based on whether BOLDED links are used, and none of the keep !votes were sufficiently contrary to existing policy or common sense such that they would have had to be discounted by any admin. A no consensus close would have also been well within the realm of admin discretion. Jclemens (talk) 03:08, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

19 October 2017[edit]

Luis Perez (football)[edit]

Luis Perez (football) (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

I have found several sources that I don't believe were in the article at the time. I think it may pass GNG. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13] WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 18:44, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Endorse as the perfect example of why the sports specific guideline works much better than the GNG. None of this coverage meets the standards of NCOLLATH, which contains a section on sourcing that is a significantly stringer requirement than the GNG. The only sources here that come close to meeting it are primary, and thus excluded by WP:N. In short: if a subject doesn't meet the sourcing requirements their SNG says to look for, we should also assume it doesn't meet the GNG. Also, my standard complaint about DRV not being AfD 2.0 and asking us to reassses sourcing less than a year after the original discussion not being an appropriate use of deletion review when there was a strong consensus in the original discussion. If you think you have enough sourcing to write an article that passes G4, you don't need permission. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:26, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

16 October 2017[edit]

Michael Anissimov (closed)[edit]

Whiskey Bards[edit]

Whiskey Bards (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (restore)

The Whiskey Bards are a band. The article about the band should be evaluated according to WP:MUSICBIO, which reads Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria.

1. Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.

I have four published works referencing this band. Two of them were music reviews.

WP:ALBUM/SOURCE says Specifically, reviews should be written by professional music journalists or DJs, or found within any online or print publication having a (paid or volunteer) editorial and writing staff (which excludes personal blogs), and must be from a source that is independent of the artist, record company, etc.

One of my reviews is from rambles.net, an online arts and culture magazine. Here is a link to their editorial and writing staff page.

The other reviewer is Gerard Heidgerken, a professional DJ who uses the handle "Bilgemunky." For six years, he hosted a pirate-themed radio show. It was a Dr. Demento styled show, with an emphasis on sea shanties and pirate music. As part of the show, he reviewed pirate movies, pirate books, nautical-themed music albums, and even clothing and rum brands. The radio show no longer airs, and Bilgemunky only performs at pirate-themed special events now. But the podcasts of his show are still available on iTunes and his reviews remain active on the website for his broadcast.

In addition to the reviews, I had an article from The Arizona Republic, a well-established newspaper, more than a century old. The article was about pirate-themed music. Two members of the band are mentioned by name and one of them is quoted.

The fourth source is an article from the Arizona Star, another newspaper, also more than a century old. The article title contains the name of one of the band members.

That makes four non-trivial published works, as required by WP:MUSICBIO. The reviews were professional according to WP:ALBUM/SOURCE. The newspapers are unquestionably significant. Cybotik (talk) 03:35, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Comment It is possible for an article on a notable topic to be so poorly written that it provides no indication of importance and so can be properly deleted via WP:CSD#A7. In the discussion at User talk:Deb#Whiskey Bards (recreated) and User_talk:Cybotik#Whiskey Bards both parties seem to have engaged in a discussion about notability which therefore bypassed the speedy deletion issue. I think Deb should address the issue of lack of indication of importance (and not WP:Notability) to defend the speedy or undelete the article (and send to WP:AFD if appropriate). Thincat (talk) 11:40, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
    • Would you say that "They are regular performers at Renaissance Faires" is an indication of importance? I can't see anything else in the article that is. Three earlier drafts of the article have been turned down by Jytdog and others. The deleted version is slightly better, but it was not I who brought up the question of notability and, as you rightly say, this is not directly relevant. Deb (talk) 12:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
      • I can't see the article, of course, but if that is all it said then "no". Unfortunately I have a very poor opinion of the general standard of reviewing and guidance at AFC so I tend to disregard it. However, I know that some AFC reviews are done satisfactorily so this may be one such example. Thincat (talk) 12:49, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
        • No, that's not all. I've put the article text here so non-admins can view it and make up their own minds. Deb (talk) 14:12, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
  • The creator had agreed to put the article through AfC before it was deleted and in my view it would be fine to restore it so they can do that. Jytdog (talk) 15:44, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
  • ;Endorse' I see no reason that it would possibly make an article, and AfC is meant for topics that have some potential,. Øf the four references in the article, two are local stories about a local band, which are indiscriminate unreliable sources for the purpose of notability, and the other two are blogs. Their recording is self-produced. DGG ( talk ) 16:07, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
    • One of the "blogs" appears to be an on-line literary magazine with both a long history, an editor, and a large number of contributors over time. Hobit (talk) 19:17, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Endorse as (barely) within discretion but I think speedy deletion was a poor action to have taken over something where so much analysis for notability was required. I am very sceptical that the "most obvious cases" requirement of CSD was really met. Also, the deletion should have been undone on reasonable request. I don't think AFC review is limited to "topics that have some potential", an assessment of potential is the result and not the prerequirement of AFC. There is no pre-review stage and anyway DRV is not pre-review. So, I think the article should be undeleted (particularly per Jytdog) and put in an AFC submission state. The weak status of references would be pertinent considerations at AFC or any XFD. Thincat (talk) 07:26, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
  • overturn Sources appear to be arguably above the GNG bar, making this not a great candidate for a speedy (multiple, independent, in depth and 3 are reliable). It should be allowed to stand at AfD. My guess is it won't make it, but it meets the letter of our notability guidelines and so it shouldn't be speedied. Hobit (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
    • My guess is that my difference in opinion with others is that I'm treating rambles.net as a quality source and others are dismissing it entirely. If it's a blog, it just barely appears to predate the word "blog" and it clearly has editorial oversight. Hobit (talk) 19:19, 20 October 2017 (UTC)


Recent discussions[edit]

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9 October 2017[edit]

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