Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

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Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, mediation, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button Button rediriger.png to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. "Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups.

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Case Created Last volunteer edit Last modified
Title Status User Time User Time User Time
Talk:Rosie Batty#RE_Edits_and_possible_disruptive_editing Closed E ribbon toner (t) 4 days, 21 hours Robert McClenon (t) 1 days, 11 hours Robert McClenon (t) 1 days, 11 hours
Talk:Disney Channels_Worldwide#Disney_Asia In Progress User 261115 (t) 3 days, 23 hours Robert McClenon (t) 11 hours Bankster (t) 10 hours
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains#Oakland Coliseum station New Titanosaurus (t) 2 days, 20 hours Nihlus (t) 21 hours Titanosaurus (t) 20 hours
Talk:Beauty and_the_Beast_(2017_film)#Non-notable_awards Closed Saiph121 (t) 2 days, 10 hours Robert McClenon (t) 11 hours Robert McClenon (t) 11 hours
Talk:LJN Closed 73.75.63.212 (t) 1 days, 1 hours Robert McClenon (t) 23 hours Robert McClenon (t) 23 hours
Talk:Altruism (ethics)#Nonsense New 77.47.74.232 (t) 22 hours Robert McClenon (t) 20 hours NomenNominandum (t) 52 minutes
Last updated by DRN clerk bot (talk) at 15:00, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


Current disputes[edit]

Talk:Rosie Batty#RE_Edits_and_possible_disruptive_editing[edit]

Symbol comment vote.svg – General close. See comments for reasoning.

Talk:Disney Channels_Worldwide#Disney_Asia[edit]

Pictogram voting wait blue.svg – Discussion in progress.
Filed by User 261115 on 15:47, 12 January 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

This dispute is with several articles related to Disney channels, the articles are Disney Channels Worldwide (this one), List of Disney XD TV channels and Disney International HD.

The main issue is with the Disney India channels and their distribution to other countries in the Indian subcontinent. It is a very common thing for the countries in Indian subcontinent like Sri Lanka, Nepal, Maldives to use Indian feeds of the channels with a small number of channels from Southeast Asia. But the mentioned countries have the Indian versions of Disney channels. Spshu thinks that these countries don't have the Indian channels and instead have their own channel feeds operated by Disney India. You can see on Disney XD list page that Sri Lanka is listed as a separate channel market when it is actually a peripheral market to the Indian one. I tried my best to fix it and explain, but I keep getting reverted.

The second issue that was recently brought up was Disney India's channel launch in the Maldives. Again, they are the Indian versions including Disney International HD, an India only channel. I gave a source for this launch on the talk page. He again thinks that Maldives get a separate version of Disney International HD compared to the Indian version. Like I said before these countries take channels from India and not have their own versions.

The final issue is the programming list at Disney International HD. I tried to add all the shows currently running on the channel with a source, and upcoming ones with source provided. But I keep getting reverted to his version that only has programmes mentioned in a news article.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

I have tried to explain this in detail on the talk page, but Spshu keeps reverting and forcing his revision to stay no matter what.

How do you think we can help?

I think it would be helpful if someone who is familiar with this topic and complying to Wikipedia guidelines could comment on it and help us reach a consensus on the issue. Currently this dispute has not been resolved.

Summary of dispute by Spshu[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by Bankster[edit]

Let's start with the List of Disney XD TV channels issue.

Spshu re-organised the list and separated many countries which share network feeds as independent markets. This is a problem not only present for European channels (which he tries to defend himself using the "reference" provided, a MAVISE list, not reliable since it doesn't have precise information and is often off about the network's structure) but also for the Asian region, where Disney XD only has one sole channel in Southeast Asia, based in Malaysia but covering surrounding countries via different feeds according to their geographical location. These feeds often have different characteristics but their programming schedule is exactly the same i.e. Malaysia having 4 audio tracks enabled for its feed (Malay, English, Tamil and Chinese) while Thailand only having two tracks (Thai and English), but programming remains in simulcast.

Same goes for India; the Mumbai-based Disney channels are often distributed in surrounding countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka due to geographical and audience advantages. However, the network's Indian feeds remain undivided. Hence, I do not understand Spshu's logic by stating that Maldives, a country that Disney officially stated to launch their networks on its territory via TV operator Dhiraagu, has its own localised feeds. It's so far obvious, by this time, that the Maldives are receiving the Indian channels and not their own; nonetheless, Spshu wants a literal mention about it, and he will not recognise it otherwise. That is original research against him. This applies also to Disney Channel Worldwide for the Southeast Asian and European markets. Lithuania doesn't have an IPTV Disney Channel in Russia. Instead, they receive (along with Latvia and Estonia) the three Disney networks with a Russian audio track enabled for them (launched in 2012). The ex-Yugoslav countries receive the same EMEA Disney feeds available for Middle Eastern and African countries, as well as there are two European feeds shared by three countries (in Central Europe, these are Czechia, Slovakia and Hungary; in Eastern Europe, Romania, Bulgaria and Moldova).

For Disney International HD is the same: the channel was launched exclusively for India, but available also for the Maldives via Diraagu since its deal with Disney. Neverthless, Spshu has stated that, with the launch of the channel in the country, Disney has launched another feed. This has no sense at all.

The user continues to address WP:ORIGINAL as his only defence on these discussions; however, by relying and tergiverse sources, he is the one committing it. --Bankster (talk) 03:40, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Disney Channels_Worldwide#Disney_Asia discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
  • Volunteer note - The filing editor has notified the other editors. There has been discussion on the article talk page that has not been conclusive. This case is ready for a volunteer moderator. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:03, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

First statement by moderator[edit]

I will act as the moderator in this case. Please read and follow the rules. I have not researched this dispute. It is up to the parties to provide brief concise information. Now: Will each editor please state, in one paragraph, what they think should be changed (or what they think is right and should be left alone)? Robert McClenon (talk) 15:21, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

User:User 261115, User:Spshu, User:Bankster ??

First statements by editors[edit]

Firstly with the Disney International HD article, Maldives should be listed in the broadcast area of the infobox. I have already given a source for this. There is no "Maldives version" it's the Indian one like I said before these countries normally take the Indian channels. And the programming list should have all the current shows currently playing on the channel, they're even mentioned on the official corporate website. I also gave source for upcoming programmes. With the Disney XD TV list, Sri Lanka should be listed in the "other" column in the India market as it's just the Indian feed, not a dedicated Sri Lanka feed. Same goes for Pakistan, Nepal and Maldives. I think User:Bankster will be able to explain the SEA Disney Channels better as I'm not 100% sure about my claims. User 261115 (talk) 15:36, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Second statement by moderator[edit]

Can users Bankster and Spshu please each state, in one paragraph, what the issues are? (A statement above that is three paragraphs doesn't count.) This noticeboard is for relatively simple content disputes that can be resolved in one to two weeks. If the issues are complicated and can't be formulated in two to three days, then I will have to forward this dispute for formal mediation where the mediator will have more time to get the editors to tease out the details. So, please, be concise. Is the real issue whether to have a long list of channels and countries, where sometimes one country is feeding off another country's channel? If so, is there any reason not to list all of the countries? Is the issue something else? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:24, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Second statements by editors[edit]

The issue spans couple of articles. First, Spshu addresses a badly-structured organisation of the Disney networks in Europe and Southeast Asia in List of Disney XD TV channels and Disney Channels Worldwide. For Europe, he uses the MAVISE website, which isn't concise and isn't accurate, for Southeast Asia and India, he treats every country the networks reach as different market for different assumptions (aka, thinking that the launch of the networks in a country means the launch of different localised channels, despite the references not saying so and the networks having only one channel for each brand). For Disney International HD, he claims that the Maldives is receiving the channel as a localised network, despite the references not mentionining any localised launch and only addressing the Disney deal with a local TV provider to distribute the Indian channel in the country (Diraagu). He constantly assumes his own positions and force them with no other editor giving a third voice. Spshu claims our contributions are original research, while his assumptions aren't. --Bankster (talk) 04:36, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains#Oakland Coliseum station[edit]

Symbol wait old.png – New discussion.
Filed by Titanosaurus on 18:30, 13 January 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

I am currently having a disagreement with Pi.1415926535 and Morphenniel on the necessity of the bus service table, platform layout diagram, and usage of the airport logo in the article.

For the past couple of months, I have been adding information to the article using other articles about rail-bus interchanges that also have bus service tables for reference, including a couple of good articles like Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue and Flushing–Main Street (WP:ATAIDD). My primary motivation for adding this information is my knowledge on the subject, in addition to BART/AC Transit officially establishing the Oakland Coliseum station as a major bus station/transit center (Source 1, Source 2), so naturally I think that the article should have information about where the buses go, kind of like how the airport articles on here have information on where flights go. The 12 bus routes that serve Oakland Coliseum carry over 2.5 Million Passengers a year combined (The rail stations in the complex see a little over 2.6 Million Passengers a year for comparison Source 1 (Starts at Page A-1), Source 2 (Page 20)). The idea of bus tables, platform layout diagrams, and airport logos that indicate which connecting bus routes serve an airport as being too excessive hasn't really been enforced on the other articles that I referred to in editing this article (some of which were deemed to be good articles by some editors of the very same WikiProject Trains where my edits are being disputed), so why is it all of the sudden being strictly enforced on this particular article?

I think that Pi.1415926535 is removing information simply for aesthetic reasons without considering the actual informative content that he would be removing, and that Morphenniel is just being disruptive. If I am in the wrong I will be more than glad to remove the table, but I think that my edits have certainly been informative and relevant to the subject, and are in line with many other esteemed articles on here about bus-rail interchanges.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Pi.1415926535 has started a discussion on the WikiProject Trains talk page, but has yet to respond to what I think were legitimate and appropriately sourced arguments that support my point of view. Morphenniel on the other hand keeps linking to the "Wikipedia is not a travel guide" policy without really addressing the solution I suggested of creating a uniform guideline for articles like this, has derided my thoughtful and well-researched contributions to this website as "nonsense", and is making false accusations about me without addressing my points or making any otherwise meaningful effort to reach a resolution.

How do you think we can help?

I think that you would be able to help facilitate a more productive and serious discussion on this issue. I am planning on improving other similar articles with similar information, and I feel that with your guidance, there can finally be a somewhat uniform guideline for what train/bus station articles should look like. WP:NOT does somewhat address this issue, but some members of the WikiProject Trains group appear to loosely and rather hypocritically decide which articles they want to apply it to as aforementioned.

Summary of dispute by Pi.1415926535[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

My basic view is this: the article is about a transit station complex. It is not about the services that can be accessed at the station, nor about the infrastructure they run on, except as it relates to the station. That means that information like the fares for the airport connector line, exactly where each bus route goes, and details of when they run and what terminals they serve are simply not relevant to this article. (However, the location of the bus transfer area, which bus routes stop at the station, and the general geographic area that the station serves as a bus terminal for - those are all pertinent details about the station itself.) There is no reason to have a highly detailed table displaying all the service details of the bus routes that serve the station - that's a perfect example of what Wikipedia is not. Similarly, I don't believe that the platform diagram needs to be included - it takes up a lot of space, doesn't show anything not included in the prose, and doesn't accurately show the orientation of the platforms. Past consensus was highly in support of those diagrams on NYC Subway articles, but against them elsewhere (I believe the particular case was the MBTA system). Flushing–Main Street (IRT Flushing Line) is actually a poor example to compare to - it never should have passed a GA review with a giant bus table, a two-sentence section, nor a digression about neighborhood attractions.

I have attempted to clean up the article so it is accurate and supported by reliable sources; my proposed version can be seen here. Titanosaurus has added a great deal of information that I feel is irrelevant or unreliably sourced - that includes the mention of an unimportant security fence (currently sourced with Google Maps, plus two reports that don't actually support the claim and don't even mention the fence), claiming that the southernmost track is the Coast Subdivision (sourced to the non-RS OpenRailwayMap wiki, and contradicting a reliable government report that I cited), and a wordy sentence about the station not having a ticket machine (with an unsourced claim about it being atypical). They have cited OpenRailwayMap and the neighborhood gossip site NextDoor for other claims, and even their reliable sources are poorly formatted. It is similarly misleading to say that the station serves bus routes with X number of riders - that doesn't actually tell us whether those riders actually use the station.

Titanosaurus has been slowly adding this extraneous information to the page (and others) for months now - dozens of small edits without a single edit summary - despite at least one previous request on their talk page. They have reverted every edit that Morphennial and I made to reduce the level of cruft (including a 3RR violation the other day), and responded in what I felt was an aggressive manner at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains#Oakland Coliseum station and User talk:Titanosaurus#Bus connections, including accusing me of bad faith because I have removed questionably relevant information on several occasions. I understand that Titanosaurus has put a great deal of work into this article, but unfortunately that work has not actually made a better encyclopedia article. Wikipedia articles are to provide a concise and relevant overview of subjects, not to provide detailed travel information. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 07:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Morphenniel[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

The issue is plain. Wikipedia is not a travel guide. If needed, the article can refer to the website of the transit authority. What is being added to this article is essentially non-encyclopedic. Furthermore, the complainant is not abiding by WP:BRD, and is reverting without discussion, even though they know that the content they are adding is in dispute.

Outside scope of this board. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I recommend a cooling-off period for Titanosaurus. A block of 72 hours would seem appropriate.

As an example of what Titanosaurus has done, we can also consider the article on Eastmont Town Center. The version as last edited by Titanosaurus was this [1]. I have since edited it down to a more reasonable size per this diff [2]. The article was effectively duplicating work already done in another article, which was List of AC Transit routes. The article on Eastmont Town Center had become swamped and overwhelmed with information on the bus service, which was plainly wrong. My version has kept the basic information, but if a user wants more detail, then they only have to click on the link which then takes them to a more detailed page on the bus service. The article is cleaner, and less like a travel guide on how to get to Eastmont Town Center. I suspect that there are many other articles that Titanosaurus has edited which are now overburdened with information on the bus service, rather than keeping to the specific details pertinent to the title of that article. - Morphenniel (talk) 15:25, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
Why are you straight up adding false information to articles? SamTrans is discontinuing Route 297 this Sunday, and was trying to make the page reflect that. Deletion is not cleanup, and the reasoning behind my edit is something that could have been easily figured out with a couple clicks in a few seconds. I also find it interesting how you kept my omission of Route 297 on the All Nighter (bus service) page, making me question what exactly was the purpose for your barrage of edits today. Your behavior today is a bit unsettling and reeks of WikiHounding. TITANOSAURUS 18:11, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains#Oakland Coliseum station discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
  • Volunteer edit - There has been discussion on the project talk page. The filing editor has notified the named editors, but other editors took part in the discussion, and should also be notified. Has there also been discussion on an article talk page? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:26, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
A discussion was started here, but is mainly being discussed at the WikiProject Trains talk page at the moment. TITANOSAURUS 07:18, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  •  Volunteer note: @Titanosaurus: Please discontinue carrying the discussion here or replying to comments made by other editors. This is not the place to do so before the case is opened. Once this case is opened, it will allow you to make your arguments then. Thanks. Nihlus 18:22, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
Absolutely, will do. TITANOSAURUS 18:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Beauty and_the_Beast_(2017_film)#Non-notable_awards[edit]

Symbol comment vote.svg – General close. See comments for reasoning.
Filed by Saiph121 on 05:11, 14 January 2018 (UTC).

Talk:LJN[edit]

Symbol comment vote.svg – General close. See comments for reasoning.

Talk:Altruism (ethics)#Nonsense[edit]

Symbol wait old.png – New discussion.
Filed by 77.47.74.232 on 17:13, 15 January 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

An editor (Epipelagic) tries to insert the following sentence in the mentioned article:

"However, he did assert that, beyond "just courtesy of the heart", it was a "duty" to treat those weaker than oneself "more delicately" than one treats oneself and one's equals." These words are a distortion of a Nietzsche quote.

The original quote is (in []):

"For the mediocre, mediocrity is happyiness; mastery of one thing, specialization as a natural instinct. It would be complietly unworthy of a more profound spirit to have any objection to mediocrity as such. Mediocrity is needed before there can e expections; it is the condition for a high culture. [When an exceptional person treats a mediocre one more delicately than he treats himself and his equals, this is not just courtesy of the heart, - it is his duty] . . . Who do I hate most among the rabble today? The socialist rabble...."

The sources mentioned by Epipelagic also refer to this quote, but regrettably distort it. This is the quote in original German language: "Für den Mittelmässigen ist mittelmässig sein ein Glück; die Meisterschaft in Einem, die Spezialität ein natürlicher Instinkt. Es würde eines tieferen Geistes vollkommen unwürdig sein, in der Mittelmässigkeit an sich schon einen Einwand zu sehn. Sie ist selbst die erste Nothwendigkeit dafür, dass es Ausnahmen geben darf: eine hohe Cultur ist durch sie bedingt. [Wenn der Ausnahme-Mensch gerade die Mittelmässigen mit zarteren Fingern handhabt, als sich und seines Gleichen, so ist dies nicht bloss Höflichkeit des Herzens, — es ist einfach seine Pflicht…] Wen hasse ich unter dem Gesindel von Heute am besten? Das Socialisten-Gesindel..."

I am native German and can confirm that the quote was fateful translated. Epipelagic insists on Kaufmann's interpretation but Nietzsche's actual words are twisted.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

See talk-page.

How do you think we can help?

Epipelagic seems to be an ideologue, I do not feel that my discussion with him was very useful. He mainly makes no logical arguments. He said for exampel: "As it turns out, on Google the term "the mediocre" is associated with Nietzsche 184,000 times. But the term "the weak" is associated with Nietzsche 292,000 times. So it is you that is trying to propagate false information and talking complete nonsense. " I do not know how to deal with such a person, and therefore ask for help.

Summary of dispute by Epipelagic[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

My view is there is nothing more to be said unless the disputant supports his position with reliable sources. --Epipelagic (talk) 00:34, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Reliable sources for what? You insist that your sentence should be in the article. All this has already been discussed. So far your only excuse is that Nietzsche wrote in German. Do you have any reason to assume that the English translation is insufficient? The sentence you want to include in the article is incorrect. The word "mittelmäßig" can only be translated too mediocre. It would be good if a mediator with knowledge of German would be here. NomenNominandum (talk) 14:34, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Altruism (ethics)#Nonsense discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
  • Volunteer note - There has been discussion on the article talk page. The other editor has not been notified. The filing editor is advised that if they want to engage in a dispute resolution mechanism, it really is a good idea to register an account. Comment on content, not on contributors. (Is there a dispute about article content? If so, can it be stated without complaining about the other editor?) Robert McClenon (talk) 18:31, 15 January 2018 (UTC)