Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

"WP:DRN" redirects here. For the "Deny Recognition" essay, see WP:DNR.

Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN. Do you need assistance? Would you like to help? Request dispute resolution If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible. This noticeboard is for content disputes only. Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion. We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other content or conduct dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves. The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. The discussion should have been on the article talk page. Discussion on a user talk page is useful but not sufficient, because the article talk page may be watched by other editors who may be able to comment. Discussion normally should have taken at least two days, with more than one post by each editor. Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{subst:drn-notice}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will not suffice. Do not add your own formatting in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session. Follow moderator instructions There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc. If you need help: If you need a helping hand just ask a volunteer, who will assist you. This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy. For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our FAQ page. Become a volunteer We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input. Volunteers should remember: Volunteers should gently and politely help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants. Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted here. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. If any editor objects to a volunteer's participation in a dispute, the volunteer must either withdraw or take the objection to the DRN talk page to let the community comment upon whether or not the volunteer should continue in that dispute. Listed volunteers open a case by signing a comment in the new filing. When closing a dispute, please mark it as "closed" in the status template (see the volunteer guide for more information), remove the entire line about 'donotarchive' so that the bot will archive it after 48 with no other edits. Open/close quick reference To open, replace {{DR case status}} with {{DR case status|open}} To close, replace the "open" with "resolved", "failed", or "closed". Add {{DRN archive top|reason=(reason here) ~~~~}} beneath the case status template, and add {{DRN archive bottom}} at the bottom of the case. Remember to remove the DoNotArchive bit line (the entire line).

Case		Created		Last volunteer edit		Last modified
Title	Status	User	Time	User	Time	User	Time
Battle of Busan (1592), Battle of Myeongnyang	Closed	John21716 (t)	3 days, 17 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	14 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	14 hours
Killing of Tyre Nichols	Closed	WikiWikiWayne (t)	3 days, 15 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	3 days, 5 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	3 days, 5 hours
Schloss Fuschl	Closed	Jamesluckard (t)	1 days, 6 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	15 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	15 hours
2024 Libertarian Party presidential primaries	New	Dieselkeough (t)	1 days, 3 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	15 hours	25stargeneral (t)	11 hours
East Palestine train derailment	Closed	Grinhelm (t)	14 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	4 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	4 hours

If you would like a regularly-updated copy of this status box on your user page or talk page, put {{DRN case status}} on your page. Click on that link for more options.
Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 06:00, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Current disputes

Battle of Busan (1592), Battle of Myeongnyang

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by John21716 on 13:49, 20 March 2023 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Battle of Busan (1592) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Battle of Myeongnyang (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved John21716 (talk · contribs) たたたたたたたたったポンタ (talk · contribs) Dispute overview In the talk page of two battles, which are Battle of Busan (1592), Battle of Myeongnyang, I frequently requested たたたたたたたたったポンタ to suggest the evidence that prove the following two points to resolve, which are the proof of the Japanese navy conquering the west coast of Jeolla-do during the second Japanese invasion of Korea (1597~1598), and the proof of the Japanese advancing and conquering Hanseong as well as the northern part of Korea after the battle of Busan. However, たたたたたたたたったポンタ is stiil refusing to provide such evidence, and he is repeating his argument that the two battles are the victory of the Japanese as well as the war itself. Contrary to his argument, I am against of admitting his argument, and the stalemate of the debate is still not being resolved. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Battle_of_Busan_(1592) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Battle_of_Busan_(1592) How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? I think you can help two users,including me by facilitating both users to provide reliable and clear sources, rather than original researches and mere arguments, to make a breakthrough and, if necessary, by providing third opinion or mediation. Summary of dispute by たたたたたたたたったポンタ Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Battle of Busan (1592), Battle of Myeongnyang discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. Volunteer Note - The filing editor has not notified the other editor of this filing. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Killing of Tyre Nichols

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by WikiWikiWayne on 15:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Killing of Tyre Nichols (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved WikiWikiWayne (talk · contribs) AgntOtrth (talk · contribs) Dispute overview Newbie SPA Editor insists that the content other editors make must only include exact words or wording used in the source. This good faith newbie SPA editor is rabid and militant about maintaining precise control of the article content. There are conduct issues, but that's another story, I assume good faith and give the benefit of the doubt for their content control efforts and their tenacious conduct. Possibly they are not self-aware of how their content and conduct are perceived. I am not lecturing. I feel this editor is coachable and open to that but I do not know the process to pull that off nor do I have the bandwidth to be a sole coach for content & conduct. Please refer me to WP resources to help this editor tone down their conduct. I know you will only be addressing content. Please help this newbie SPA editor as I don't wish to malign or harm them and I suspect that they are an editor with great possibilities. Thank you. They engage in copyvios, linkrot, poor grammar, misspellings, run-ons, lead too long, not using summary style, reverting content, and not understanding content essays, guidelines, policies, norms, or intent. My coming here is to help them, not harm or blame them. They add unnecessary content to talk pages by copying template content back to the talk page of the editor who templated them. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? Talk:Killing_of_Tyre_Nichols Killing of Tyre Nichols:Revision history: Edit summaries & reverts & edits User talk:AgntOtrth How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Let the newbie SPA editor know what they are doing is harming the encyclopedia and coach them on how to be an awesome editor, and to stop wikilawyering to support their content edits; stop reverting the content of good edits. Provide a support team to filter their content edits maybe in a personalized "pending changes" protocol until they internalize their own direct content edits. Teach them the need and how to build out references that contain full metadata and use the citation style in place. My only goal is for AgntOtrth to slow their roll, edit content within our norms better, and be an awesome, liked, productive, and appreciated Wikimedian. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 15:29, 20 March 2023 (UTC) Summary of dispute by AgntOtrth Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. I disagree with your claim of acted in good faith. You have engaged in edit warring on the article twice in 30 days. The first edit war you engaged, you reverted 3 edits from 3 different editors in a short period of time. You then placed a warning on my talk page accusing me of edit warring - that is not good faith, since you had just engaged in a edit war on the same article. In the last 24hr you reverted edits, even though another editor conduct copyright check that only 39% and that showed violations unlikely. You have been uncivil to me, and have not identified specific issues - you have made blanket statements. You blanked an entire article without identifying specific issues or utilizing the talk page in good faith. You blamed me for your choice to blank an entire article. You blanked section I did not edit - that is not acting in good faith. You have made almost 22% of the edits on that article, yet you accuse me of ownership - I have made less than 7% of the edits. You reverted the article 3 time before you discussed the reverts on the talk page. I asked you for help in identifying and fixing issues, you did not provide help. AgntOtrth (talk) 16:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC) AgntOtrth – Those are not considered reverts. My edits are encyclopedic – mainly polishing edits. MOS edits. Continuity edits. Archiving refs. Repairing refs. Fixing typos. I have not added much content to this article. Take care always. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 01:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC) And yet your first edit war, was about article content. You could go to temp page for the re-write and identify edits that vviolate. AgntOtrth (talk) 01:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC) Killing of Tyre Nichols discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Schloss Fuschl

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Jamesluckard on 00:29, 23 March 2023 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Schloss Fuschl (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Jamesluckard (talk · contribs) Justlettersandnumbers (talk · contribs) Dispute overview Twice, on 9/12/22 and 12/27/22, I attempted to expand the article on the Schloss Fuschl. The first time, user Justlettersandnumbers reverted my additions for being "ill-sourced." The second time, I found more sources, but Justlettersandnumbers again reverted my changes, claiming my edits were "Promotion," that a portion failed the "Crystal Ball" rules, and criticizing my additional sources. I attempted to open a dispute resolution previously, on January 18, but it was closed because I failed to mention the request on the subject talk page and the user's talk page. I then did so, and have given two months now for a reply. I believe the sources I found are the best available. The primary source is a booklet written by a legitimate local historian. It was published by the hotel, but only contains historical data, no opinion about or endorsement of the business. I also cited multiple news articles. Wikipedia says Promotion consists of "advocacy, opinion, scandal mongering, self-promotion, or advertising." I can't find evidence of that in what I wrote. The Crystal Ball rule feels like it is being applied incorrectly. I provided sources for statements about the near future. The Crystal Ball page here says it's okay to include things about the future if they are "almost certain to take place." Also, almost everything in my two revisions is also in the German-language article, which has virtually no sources listed. I asked two other members here to add their thoughts. You'll see their comments on the Talk page. One is a friend, the other is a stranger I found on a page I frequently edit, the St. Regis New York hotel. I am requesting a dispute resolution because the other user has not replied recently, and the page is fairly obscure, so it hasn't attracted any other Talk page comments. I hope a fair resolution can be found. Perhaps I just need to find more sources for my text, but it's all historical information, it seems a shame to delete it entirely. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? Talk:Schloss Fuschl, User talk:Justlettersandnumbers How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? I would like an impartial moderator or moderators to look at my revisions of 9/12/22 and 12/27/22, then review the comments on the Talk pages, and decide what the best course of action is. Thanks! Summary of dispute by Justlettersandnumbers Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Schloss Fuschl discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2024 Libertarian Party presidential primaries

– New discussion.

Filed by Dieselkeough on 03:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• 2024 Libertarian Party presidential primaries (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Dieselkeough (talk · contribs)
• TheGuardianOfTheWiki (talk · contribs)
• TrimeTaveler1 (talk · contribs)
• 25stargeneral (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The issue is in regards to a List of Candidates who are set to go into the 2024 Libertarian Presidential Primaries. One User is claiming that in order for an individual (even if they are notable on wikipedia) to qualify as being apart of the list, they must have had major media coverage, which in context does not ever happen. While third party sites, such as third party watch, and the candidates themselves saying that they are running, as well as FEC filings, Coverage in debates, participation in party conventions running on the ticket, does not matter.

Secondly, they consider the list, and the sources the candidates used on the 2020 libertarian presidential list to be insufficient and "bad editing"

They give undue weight to Joe Exotic, only allowing him to be present on the article as a result.

According to the policies on Notability, individuals on Lists do not need to be notable. Despite this, The user in question is insisting that they must be.

Mike Ter Maat, Jacob Hornberger, Lars Mapstead are all major players as of this time. And considering the limited media appearances of the Libertarian Party, The Limited sources at hand ought to be considered, due to it being a list of candidates, and not an article or biography for each one.

In context to the LP, Joe Exotic is an extremely minor player, who was actually expelled from the party, so giving him undue weight is absolutely inaccurate in all respects.

So, given the limited media surrounding it, the fact that the party is convention-nomination, the fact that each candidate is backed by multiple verifiable sources, including the FEC, The fact that there is limited media coverage, the Misinformation presented by the article, and the fact that Wikipedia's Policies are explicit about lists, some of the other candidates in the list need to be added.

At the Very lest it needs to be explicitly clarified that the list is very much inaccurate and misleading.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2024_Libertarian_Party_presidential_primaries#major_candidate_listing_criteria

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

I believe being able to add other candidates to the list, and to be able to loosen the restrictions an editor has been trying to enforce upon everyone, would help make the article more accurate and avoid misinformation currently presented by the article.

Summary of dispute by TheGuardianOfTheWiki

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by Trimetaveler1

I had posted my FEC filing number/date/website, but the code was admittedly sloppy. I am also a major player, I recently inherited some money, and plan on having a major tour with multiple parties and working with multiple candidates within the LP as I have been doing, but I am ready to go to the next level. I know some of you think I am a joke, but I have a 65,568 page Radical Restructuring plan, funding, and connections to the music industry, and pro skateboarding industry. I was at many state conventions as Jedi Hill's VP in 2020 and Vermin Supreme's VP for part of 2019 and drove Adam Kokesh's bus, and worked with Daniel Behrman. I also am friends with the late John McAfee and his wife. I also campaigned and signed up libertarians at music festivals all over the country (during the period of the LP's largest growth ever) But whatever happens, happens... worst I could do is post some screen shots for ten people to see... right? Furthermore... Joe Exotic is the biggest name to announce so far, Vermin Supreme received more individual donations than any LP primary candidate ever, and you guys said "comedy doesn't belong in politics" but are now trying to run Dave Smith. Vermin is gone, you missed your chance. It is obvious who the players are, and whose court they think it is, but I represent the voters, not your lame af caucuses, not the right ones or the left ones you fight and don't realize you are all there is... My idea is to prune the LP platform to one plank, and argue over adding new planks later as progress is made. But please keep fighting among yourselves, it only proves how right I am that the LP has become a dysfunctional embarrassment equally by both sides labeling themselves as the right and left. Only someone like Vermin or Joe Exotic, can save it. I am just a few people's 2nd favorite candidate, if I win anything it is by accident, but any fun I have is sort of like winning... So figure it out and let me know if I am cool enough or not.

Summary of dispute by 25stargeneral

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

This is pretty simple, all content on Wikipedia requires citations to reliable sources. I've tried to explain to these new editors that the candidates' own websites and press releases are not RS, to no avail. Independent Political Report (which also runs Third Party Watch) is also not a RS, and has been repeatedly rejected by RS/N as an "unedited link aggregator". If any of these editors are able to produce RS for the candidates they're trying to add, I'd be more than happy to add them to the article. I have never claimed that candidates must be notable under Wikipedia's notability guideline to be in the article; I have only said citations to reliable sources are required. 25stargeneral (talk) 19:57, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

2024 Libertarian Party presidential primaries discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer Note - The filing editor has not notified the other editors on their user talk pages. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Corrected that mistake. All editors have been informed on their talk pages. Dieselkeough (talk) 18:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

East Palestine train derailment

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Grinhelm on 16:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute East Palestine train derailment (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Muboshgu (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I removed a section of the East Palestine Train derailment Wiki page due to a lack of relevance. User Muboshgu reverted my good faith edits without justification. The user stated that I should use the talk page. I posted in the talk page and undid Muboshgu's edit. Again Muboshgu undid my edit and said to use the talk page. I responded by undoing their edit and said "Then reply on the talk page". Muboshgu responded with I don't have to or want to. Revert again and I'll block you for edit warring. I would like dispute resolution to Muboshgu and my editing. I think that a user should back up their undoing of an edit. Additionally, how do you resolve a dispute with someone that refuses to discuss the issue and issues threats. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2023_Ohio_train_derailment&action=history How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? If Muboshgu wants to undo my edits is fine. But they should be willing to talk and back up their rational. Summary of dispute by Muboshgu Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. East Palestine train derailment discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.