Wikipedia:Help desk/Archive 23

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Picture With Caption[edit]

How do you add a picture with a caption to an article?

  • It's really simple. For example, let's say you want to put a picture of Colin Mochrie that says "Comedian" as a caption somewhere. Just type "Image:Whos biopic mochrie.jpg|right|frame|Comedian".

Except replace it with the correct jpg.For more help, see Wikipedia:Picture tutorial.--Anti-Anonymex2 22:55, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Accidental Vanity Page[edit]

i created a personal biography as an article by accident and need it moved to the would i do that

  • You could either put a notice that it is a user page, or allow it to be deleted and write the user page.--Anti-Anonymex2 23:04, 9 July 2005 (UTC)
Since there's no article history of consequence (you're the only who's edited the article, right?), the easiest approach is probably just copy what you want to the user page and then add a speedy delete tag on the article. A speedy delete tag is a line like {{deletebecause|reason}} where you'd replace "reason" with something like "meant to be user page". -- Rick Block (talk) 02:26, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

php, java, javascript, flash[edit]

Bear with me. I've just been asked to port an entire informational website to Wikipedia (to which I replied "Wikiwhat?!?") The website describes an experiment at the University of Wisconsin physics department. It makes use of php, java, javascript, and Macromedia flash. Sifting through the documents (which are pretty helter-skelter) all I've found is that I cant use flash. What about java, javascript, and php? While I'm at it, is there a coherent AND comprehensive users guide to wikitext? Thanks, apchar

No, you can't use any of those with wikipedia. If you mean your own mediawiki running somewhere else, then you're free to use them or whatever else you want. Docs at wikipedia:help. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:07, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured articles[edit]

Is there a way to easily determine the date of the article's featured status? I sometimes wonder if the article has improved since WP:FA or am I seeing it in the middle of a subsequent edit war (eg: Cold fusion). hydnjo talk 01:09, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Would you consider looking at the history of the talk page easy? The addition of the {{featured}} tag should be fairly easy to recognize. -- Rick Block (talk) 02:33, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
OK, found it ( 10:07, 20 August 2004 Meelar (featured)). Missed it when I looked before asking for Help. Sorry about the bother. hydnjo talk 02:47, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
BTW, try and see how easy it is to find without my hint. hydnjo talk 02:59, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry - I didn't mean my question to be flip or sarcastic, but I can see how it could be read that way. What I meant was "The addition of the featured tag on the talk page should be fairly easy to recognize. Are you looking for an easier mechanism than that?" BTW - to find it you can display the last 500 edits to the talk page (or 500 at a time until you find it) and search on the page using the browser's "search" function. If this doesn't work, the easiest way I know is to do a binary search on the talk page entries (look at a really old version for the featured tag, assuming it doesn't have the tag, then look at a version about half-way between current and the last one you looked at, narrowing down where it must have been added by half each time until you find it - with 500 versions it takes looking at about 9 versions to find it this way). -- Rick Block (talk) 03:22, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
I know how to do it that way. Try and see how easy it is to find it your way. The version that I was looking for is about 150 versions ago and it doesn't particularly stand out. Not easy IMHO. hydnjo talk 03:50, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
So Rick talk, what I'm wondering is: What if someone could expand the {{featured}} template to include the version such as {{featured|date}} or something like that. I sure don't know how to or I would give it a go. Thanks for listening, hydnjo talk 04:38, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
I believe all the featured templates link to the nomination subpage (unless it's too old). So I think you should be able to just click on the link to the nom page, see when the nomination was, and since it would have been promoted a few days later, there's your date. --Dmcdevit 05:07, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
OK, I quit. The encyclopedia reader notes that the article has been awarded {{feature}} status at some point in it's history and it's up to the reader to figure when that was. I can just imagine not some Jr. High kid doing that. hydnjo talk 05:26, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Guys, hydnjo is right. The point is not whether WE can do these things, it's whether a reader can. It would be useful for a reader to know how long ago an article became featured. Isomorphic 05:53, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

How to get out of Nostalgia skin?[edit]

I used Preferences to set my skin to Nostalgia. Now I want to go back to the normal default skin, but there doesn't seem to be a Preferences link anywhere on the Nostalgia page!? How do I get back? Is there a direct URL I can use? Wasted Time R 02:18, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Never mind, I found the Special:Preferences direct URL. Wasted Time R 02:20, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

User pages[edit]

I searched around for a guideline and tried to look at other users' for a general idea, but I'm kindof confused as to what (or if I really even need to in the first place) I should do with my user page. Can I/am I supposed to put basically whatever I want or is there a general template that's better to use? I'd rather not write up a bunch of irrelevant garbage that proves unnecessary. :) Thanks! Mixvio 10:24, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

For the most part, you can have whatever you want, within limits. It's a good thing to tell us a little about yourself, what you like to do (particularly here), how long you've been here, etc. Check out my page if you'd like some ideas. Feel free to steal ideas from other people's pages as well, I sure have. There is a page about them, Wikipedia:User page as well. Lots of templates can be found here. If you have other questions, feel free to ask! -- Essjay · Talk 10:38, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
On the other hand, if you feel that creating a page about yourself is unnecessary vanity, then there doesn't seem to be any disadvantage to not bothering. Notinasnaid 12:32, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Some editors "take bluelinks more seriously than redlinks" is the only particular disadvantage I can think of; I know I had a note on my talk page when I first started that said that. -- Essjay · Talk 12:34, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia cloned content?[edit]

No doubt Wikipedia is great in both senses, as useful as extensive to find the right place to submit this comment. I know that your copyright allows the use of Wikipedia content in our own sites but I think that does not includide cloning your site as it seems is happening at this site:

Maybe I'm wrong but in such site it seems not only Wikipedia but other reference sites has been clones or are being hot-linked somehow. Comments about help desk?... well I will like that you add an easier way to contact you to report things like this since it took me almos an hour find this page and I'm not if it is the right one to report the above link. Greetings and keep up the good job ;)

This is allowed. Wikipedia is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License which allows anyone to reuse the content, even for commericial purposes, as long as they adhere to that license. See Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks for more info on this. Angela. 12:29, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
  • You say that it took you almost an hour to find this page. We don't intend for it to be so hidden. For example, I imagine a user who wants to ask a question might get here by clicking on "Help / Contact us" at the left, and then selecting "Asking questions" from the table of contents. It then lists this page, the Reference Desk, the Village Pump, and General Complaints. Clearly this isn't as obvious from a new-user perspective as it seems. Do you have any suggestions on how we might improve things? Thanks, Bovlb 15:08:29, 2005-07-10 (UTC)

sale of medal[edit]


I think you may have slightly misunderstood the purpose of Wikipedia. It is an encyclopedia, and I hope you will find it useful. For selling things, you might find sites like eBay more useful. Notinasnaid 12:25, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Actors date of birth[edit]


I am a college student and my current project involves actors and their age. I want to compare their ages with their salary. Do you have a database that also contains actor and director names along with their ages? It would be fantastic and appreciated if you could send me a word doc or the db with this info or a link to your site, which might contain all of this in one list. Thank you very much, any help that you could give would be greatly appreciated.


Sorry, we don't maintain such resources. Your best bet would be to check the Internet Movie Database and get the names and ages manually. Meelar (talk) 15:05, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
If you're willing to do some work, there is a reasonable amount of data here that could be used for this purpose but you'd have to extract it yourself. Step one would be download a copy of the entire database (see Wikipedia:Database_download) for analysis via MySQL. Step two would be to figure out how to use database queries related to Wikipedia categories. Then starting at category:actors you could enumerate through actor articles (note that categories in wikipedia form a general directed graph, so there may be cycles and not every article recursively in category:actors is necessarily an actor) looking for the birth year category the article is in. From this you would have actors and their birth year (not quite age, but probably close enough for your purposes). There's a category for directors as well, see category:film directors. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:42, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

User insists on copyright violation[edit]

User:Marvzlorenzo (who I suspect is also editing as User: keeps placing an unfree image (Image:Pala343.jpg) into Airbus A340. I've already identified it as a copyright violation, tagged it and added it to Wikipedia:Copyright problems, and informed him several times about the copyright violation, but he keeps putting it back on the article. He has not replied to me at User_talk:Marvzlorenzo or User_talk: What should I do? And if I remove the unfree image again, my 3rd time to do so, would I be violating the three-revert rule? TheCoffee 14:47, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I'll remove it and give him a "heads up" note. If he keeps it up, we'll go to the admins. -- Essjay · Talk 14:48, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

I just realized the WP:3RR allows me three reverts, so I could have removed it one more time. :p Anyway, thanks! :) TheCoffee 15:02, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I've removed it and left him a note, as well as left a note on the talk page. For now, my advice is don't remove it again, because it may be seen by some admins to be a revert war rather than a copyvio problem. If he adds it again, go to the Admin noticeboard. -- Essjay · Talk 15:05, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

I'll watch this issue and jump in with my admin stick if I need to. Manning 15:36, July 15, 2005 (UTC)


This may not be the right place th ask this, but what happened to the sandbot? It hasn't edited since June 26. Howabout1 Talk to me! 15:29, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

  • AllyUnion had to fix the bots because of the MediaWiki 1.5 upgrade. The best you can do is cleaning the sandbox manually until it's back up and running. - 16:11, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks. Howabout1 Talk to me! 16:16, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

looking for a chance[edit]

hello yes i write to you to get a chance to work with you cause i work as a journalist in morocco i hope that u reply me so soon thx so much my email is jodyac AT hotmail DOT com

  • If your contributions contain accurate and useful information, many other people will gladly fine-tune your English. Benefits all around. alteripse 17:34, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
  • You probably know a lot about the nation of Morocco that people around the world do not know, also about nations adjacent to yours. Since this community encyclopaedia is written by people mainly in other countries, you may be able to improve on many pages relevant to your specialist background knowledge.
  • You might also visit Category:Limited geographic scope to see a list of articles that have been designated as not doing a good enough job from a global perspective. You might want to visit each of those pages, see if the topic interests you, and is one that you know something about, then introduce yourself on its "Talk" page with your special area of know-how. I am sure you will be welcomed at many such pages.

AlMac 23:29, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Current Time[edit]

I have the current time displayed on my user talk page using {{now}}. Is there a way to modify the time to show a different time zone other than UTC? NoSeptemberT 17:50, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I think if you go to preferences, then time zone, you can change the display to fit your own time zone (or whichever you prefer). You could look at meta:MediaWiki_User's_Guide:_Setting_preferences#Time_zone for more info. --Dmcdevit 04:16, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
If that's the case, why does the template source for {{now}} explicitly define UTC? --Andy Janata 04:49, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
It doesn't define UTC, it's just a link to it, I believe. But it still looks like I was wrong. I had assumed that {{CURRENTTIME}} was variable according to a user's preferences. After some experimentation, it looks like not (although sometimes I have trouble clearing my cache). May want to ask this on the technical Village Pump, as they'll have more knowledge over there. --Dmcdevit 05:36, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
By "define", I meant "have it in the page source instead of dynamically generated". I should have worded that clearer. --Andy Janata 14:41, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I also have problems clearing my cache. Ctrl-Refresh doesn't work. NoSeptember0>- 16:20, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

using images from other language wikipedias[edit]

There are some images I would like to use from other language wikipedias, but I seem unable to display them. Is there any way to do this other than taking their image and uploading it a second time on the English wikipedia? --Pravit 20:10, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

'Fraid not. However, if their licence is compatible with Wikipedia:Commons, you're better to upload it there. While images can't be magically included from other wikipedias, they can be magically included from commons. And (here's the good karma bit) any other languages that want to use the image can immediately get it without having to do the copy. So you can't make matters easier for yourself, but you can for others. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:20, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
There is no link in this article to Commons, it is on --Fenice 20:37, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Getting information[edit]

Wikiwiki and the Wikipedia are brand new to me. I just browsed into it yesterday. And I'm quite impressed with what I've seen so far - the approach, the work that's been and is being done, and its potential. While the answer to my question may be available on your site, I thought, perhaps, I could get it faster and be more certain of the answer if I asked directly. Hope you don't mind. My question is this:

Is it permissible/ok to introduce a new "Theory" through/in Wikipedia?

Background: I'm a retired, rather old, man. I've been developing concepts about things I couldn't find personally acceptable explanations/answers for all my life. They just accumulated. However, the ideas have been coming together in recent years and I've been trying to get them down on paper. That's what I've been working on recently. Concurrently, I've been wondering how and where to introduce them. I like the feedback ideas integrated into Wikipedia. Feedback often helps one explain his ideas more clearly. I could introduce the stuff in relatively small pieces or sections. Since I don't ever expect to get the work completely done, I can expand on it with the parts I do get done while I'm still around. I think it may be something your readers, and contributors, might be interested in.

I've been educated as a Mathematician, minoring in Physics. However, I spent my career as a computer applications software system architect/designer and developer. I retired in 1988. The name of my theory is, "The Theory of Conservation". It's founded on the idea that the only way of proving anything is by observation (and measurement). It is derived from documented personal observations communicated to society in Scientific Reports. -- 23:27, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

The introduction of new theories is explicitly disallowed by Wikipedia policy. Sorry. -- Cyrius| 23:52, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
You might consider putting your ideas on Wikinfo, which is somewhat similar to Wikipedia, but specifically allows stuff that would be prohibited on Wikipedia by the Wikipedia:No original research rule. However I don't know how many people would get to see it! rossb 09:49, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Wikinfo is designed to attract an audience that wants stuff not found on Wikipedia. Different system for a different market. Yes, that audience is smaller, but at least it exists. The Wikipedia:No original research rule is one that is needed to maintain the stability of the 'Pedia. Sorry. Manning 15:50, July 15, 2005 (UTC)


Hi there.

Myself and a friend - both of us professional musicologists, active music lecturers, published authors, accredited editors, musicians and composers - have just spent most of our free time in the last week or so revising the unholy and incoherent mess that was the old entry for 'serialism'.

Imagine our disgust on finding this evening that someone called 'Stirling Newberry' has deleted massive sections of what we carefully and conscientiously wrote, and replaced it with stuff that simply *is not professionally competent*. We ask that his garbage be removed *at once* and the page 'locked' in its *previous state* until this issue is resolved satisfactorily.

Users of the site are most definitely *not* being served by the page in the idiotic, messed-up form in which it now appears. I stress that this man Newberry is writing about a subject from a position of *arrogant ignorance*; I am, indeed, *staggered* that he can *casually delete many hundreds of carefully researched words* without the slightest hesitation.

Do, please, let me know what is to be done about this issue.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

Mark Doran.

I looked at the diffs between this editor's version and Mr. Newberry's version, and I must say, they both seem to have their merits. I would say both versions could be integrated into one, though I have no expertise in this area. Mr. Doran, have you discussed this at all on the article's talk page? Perhaps you and he could come up with a compromise. Hermione1980 23:49, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello Mr. Doran. I don't know if you are aware of the so called three revert rule or not. So, please become familiar with this rule as it will not serve your position well if you are in violation. hydnjo talk 00:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Not being a musicologist, I can't evaluate the merits of the different articles. I do, however, suggest that you explain on the talk page what's wrong with the current version. Is there a dispute over certain facts, or is the current version just badly explained? Isomorphic 05:12, 11 July 2005 (UTC)


I find the Help for Wikipedia to be very strangely organized. However, my real question is simply: How do I mark text as being in italics, because it is a proper title of a book?

If you wanted to italicize bob, you would put ''bob''. Howabout1 Talk to me! 01:03, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Just to clarify: use the single apostrophe twice. Do not use the double apostrophe or you will get "bob" instead of bob. hydnjo talk 01:13, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. That worked.

Robert McClenon 11:51, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Vitamin products that contains Beluga (Sturgeon) Promtaines[edit]


Could you please reponse to the below questions.

1) What is Beluga Protamines?

2) Is there any harm to child bearing age women to consume these vitamin products?

3) I've done some research through the internet and have gather some facts regarding the Beluga Sturgeon in Caspian sea. The sources said that these mammals are contaminated with Mercury or Pesticides. If they are contaminated would there be any harm to human to consume any vitamin products that contains Beluga protamines?

Thank you for your time.

Kind Regards Hannah.

Please take all factual questions to the reference desk. ---asx- 02:01, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

How to Float a Table of Contents[edit]

Is it possible to float an article's table of contents over to the right side of the page? How would you do that?

  • If you mean a separate window I doubt it's possible and it would annoy many many people so it's no. If you mean with javascript, you can't use that in an article so again I don't think so. Elfguy 02:03, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the quick response. I wasn't very clear. I mean on the same page, like the picture of the comedian above on this page. Can you right align a table of contents like that? -asx- 04:44, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Turns out there is a template that does this, i.e. you add {{TOCright}} to a page. This particular template, and the whole notion of letting editors specify a right aligned table of contents (overriding the default left aligned table of contents) is under discussion at WP:TFD so this template may go away sometime in the near future. If you have an opinion about this you're welcome to comment at WP:TFD. -- Rick Block (talk) 05:07, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Excellent, thank you very much! -asx- 11:45, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
  • There also exists {{TOCleft}}. The result of the TfD debte was to keep TOCright. MOS guidelines for the use of this template in particular, and of floating TOCs in general, are now being discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#Template:TOCright_2. I urge anyone interested in this subject to read and comment there. Settling this with an MOS guideline is IMO the best way to proceed. DES 19:40, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Help for groups[edit]


I want to ask you. Who in here do I contact to offer my help and services to the "Anime" and the current "Comics" projects. my proflie is User:CharlesWiki so, I ask of you to give me an answer as soon as possible

--CharlesWiki 03:50, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I would think the Comics project page would be the place to go. Dismas 04:04, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Hide my edits option[edit]

There doesn't seem to be a way to keep the "Hide my edits" link to stay the way I want it. When looking at my watchlist I hit the link but then when I look a few minutes later at my watchlist, my edits are visible once again. Is there a preference that I'm missing somewhere that will set this more permanently? Thanks, Dismas 04:17, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't think so. I've gone through all the preference settings and can't find anything. One thing you could do is have a tab permanently set to your watchlist (or a seperate copy of your browser) and then hit refresh when you want to update. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 09:50, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

View another Users History[edit]

Is there a way to view another user's history (what they have edited)? -asx- 05:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes. From their user page or their talk page there is a link to "user contributions" that dispays the user's edit history. You can also type in the "search" box "special:contributions/username". -- Rick Block (talk) 05:14, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Great, thank you again! -asx- 05:17, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I cannot for the life of me find this link to :user contributions. Can someone point out where it is? thanks -- RA64
It's on the left in the middle of the screen. Howabout1 Talk to me! 03:19, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
Ok, found it, thanks -- RA64

Source for a fact in Coca Cola entry?[edit]

Hi, I may not be channeling my question to the appropriate source, but I thought I'd start here. I'm just trying to find out if I can locate or track a specific fact within the Coca Cola entry, more specifically, within the subentry of "I'd Like to Teach the World To Sing."

The fact I'd just like to verify, or at least pin down the source on, is this:

South Africa applied for a version of the commercial without black people in it. Their application was refused.

Thank you, hsvokos

  • Should probably discuss that on the article talk page. Elfguy 15:58, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
  • There's a note on the I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing page. It does sound strange - do countries normally "apply" for adverts? Something isn't quite right about the detail as stated... Shimgray 16:53, 11 July 2005 (UTC)


Could someone please revert the massive text dump on Template:POTD to this clean version by Sj? My talk is near impossible to reach and my edits to the template aren't sticking. - Mgm|(talk) 18:22, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

I can't seem to revert that page either...--HappyCamper 18:33, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Grr. I'm trying, but it's not working. (This response is also a test edit to see if all of WP is down, editing-wise.) Hermione1980 19:00, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I can view the history of Template:POTD, but I can't view the page itself, I can't view diffs from the history page, and I can't edit it. What's up? Hermione1980 19:26, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to try and sort it out. Give me a min. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 19:29, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm trying to delete the page and recreate it from scratch but that's not working either. I'm at a loss. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 19:36, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I had something similar happen to my userpage last week; User:Linuxbeak was able to fix it by reverting, even though he couldn't load the page (massive textdump = page loading falls over). Not quite sure how he managed to do so, though, as I'm not entirely familiar with the rollback tool... Shimgray 19:38, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

(losing indent) Normally the rollback too works by comparing an edit with a previous one. If we try that we get the following error message

Line 1: Line 1:
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 100000000 bytes exhausted 
(tried to allocate 12 bytes) in 
/usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/DifferenceEngine.php  on line 530

There is another way to do a rollback which I am trying now Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 19:51, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I tried moving to it a different name and that doesn't work either. If what Theresa's trying doesn't work, seems like it's time to get a developer involved. -- Rick Block (talk) 20:06, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, something strange going on. All the above attempts also failed with timeouts for me. What is particularly strange is that User: contributions has the Rollback flag against the Template:POTD page, but a following edit to the page one minute later. This isn't normal, and perhaps is part of the problem. I'm thinking someone with direct access to the database is needed. The POTD template is on quite a few user pages so this problem must be affect a fair number of people. -- Solipsist 21:02, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

When I tried doing a rollback on the user contributions I got this error message

Error in numRows(): Deadlock found when trying to get lock; Try  restarting transaction
   * GlobalFunctions.php line 424 calls wfbacktrace()
   * Database.php line 541 calls wfdebugdiebacktrace()
   * Database.php line 638 calls databasemysql::numrows()
   * LinkCache.php line 162 calls databasemysql::selectfield()
   * Title.php line 1129 calls linkcache::addlinkobj()
   * Skin.php line 1271 calls title::getarticleid()
   * SkinTemplate.php line 180 calls skinmonobook::makeurldetails()
   * OutputPage.php line 459 calls skinmonobook::outputpage()
   * OutputPage.php line 671 calls outputpage::output()
   * Database.php line 398 calls outputpage::databaseerror()
   * Database.php line 345 calls databasemysql::reportqueryerror()
   * Database.php line 938 calls databasemysql::query()
   * Article.php line 912 calls databasemysql::update()
   * Article.php line 1168 calls article::updaterevisionon()
   * Article.php line 1939 calls article::updatearticle()
   * index.php line 175 calls article::rollback()
   * index.php line 3 calls require()

I hope someone can make sense of that. Time to go looking for developers Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 21:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I've asked Tim and Brion. I've also blocked the IP for a couple of days. This may well have been an accident by a newbiw rather than a deliberate attempt at disruption - actually I'm 90% sure it is, but I wanted to give the developers some time to sort things out before letting the anon have a chance at doing it again. If any admin things I'm being OTT and unblocks the IP address then I wont complain. It's difficilt to know what to do for the best here. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 21:44, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Ahhh. All seems back to Peace and Tranquillity. Thanks and well done to everyone who helped resolved the problem. -- Solipsist 23:10, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Satanname problem[edit]

What am I doing wrong? I have spent hours trying to change my signature to one that includes my talk page link. Even with good advice, I can't seem to do it. I have tried almost every permutation I can think of and nothing works. I want to have the tildes print out Mothperson with "cocoon" in subscript. So far I have come up with nothing that doesn't include a lot of visible brackets. To wit: [[User:Mothperson|Mothperson]] 20:44, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Put the following text into your signature preferences: ]] <sub>[[User talk:Mothperson|Cocoon </sub>. With the automatic additions by the system, it should be [[User:Mothperson|Mothperson]] <sub>[[User talk:Mothperson|Cocoon]] </sub>[[]]. Let's see if this works: Mothperson Cocoon testing signature...

Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 20:50, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I can't seem to get rid of the sub in the following text, but HappyCamper has a much better solution. Oh well. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 20:55, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Try this:
  1. Click on preferences and check off the little square that says "Raw signatures (without automatic link; please don't use templates for this)"
  2. Then, in your nickname, type something like
    • [[User:HappyCamper|HappyCamper]] <small>[[User talk:HappyCamper|cocoon]]</small>
  3. You'll get a result like the thing below when you type in ~~~~:

Lookee - I am now slightly less annoying than I was before! Or more. Whatever. Thanks, you guys!!! Mothperson cocoon 21:04, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Picture problem[edit]

An anon editor has twice replaced the image in the Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (video game) article with what I believe is a copyvio image (it has a watermark on it, and no copyright tag is listed). I reverted him both times. The image in question is Image:109675e.jpg. Is there a problem with that image? If not, is there really a reason to replace the existing image (Image:HarryPotterAzkabanbox.jpg)? Thanks, Hermione1980 22:27, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

  • No, if it's got a watermark it's probably a bad idea to keep it. Though looking for a 2D frontal image of the box without the watermark is a good idea.- Mgm|(talk) 04:59, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Ricardo Clark[edit] Plata. Argentina.

  • What is your question? - Mgm|(talk) 05:00, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
    • Is it a question, or advertising? --Dmcdevit 05:05, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Bookmarks ?[edit]

The page intro says 'Remember to check this page again (how about a bookmark?) '. Testing shows standard browser bookmarks work OK. Is there a some sort of personal scratchpad area available for temp. storage of links, notes, etc?

You might find your user page useful for this; in this case, User:Sablime. Shimgray 00:22, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
See my user page for a rough idea. Near the bottom of the page. I keep those links there since I don't want to have to find them everytime I need them. It's handy since I access the Wiki from different computers on a daily basis. Dismas 00:31, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Editing a Page[edit]

How do you edit a page on wikipedia?

Click on the "edit this page" link at the top. That's the short answer, the longer answer is that you should look over the Help page. It can be accessed from any page on the Wiki up in the upper left hand corner where it says Help / Contact us. Dismas 00:28, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles that appear to be copied from other sources[edit]

While browsing through Wikipedia (great site!), I've come across a few articles that have 1 or 2 paragraphs copied, word-for-word, from another website. I guess I'm not entirely clear on what the policy is for this. I spent a good 10 minutes searching through the Wikipedia FAQ and such, but have not found a good guideline to follow.

Thus, I would like to know what I should do if I see a copy/paste job and:

  • The other website is listed at the bottom in the "See also" section, but the "quotation" is indicated,
  • The other website is *not* linked or cited from the article,
  • The copy/paste is minor (say, 2-3 sentances),
  • The copy/paste is major (say, the entire article), or
  • I can't tell who actually copied whom -- Wikipedia or the other site

Sometimes, I might be qualified to rewrite the article, but often I am not. Is there a central "Please rewrite these plagarized articles if you are qualified" page that I can link from?

Thanks! --Jeff 01:26, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • Please see Wikipedia:Copyright problems, which gives instructions on how to procede. As I understand it, we do not copy any text from other websites, except for explicit quotations. Sources should generally be cited. Bovlb 01:35:27, 2005-07-12 (UTC)
  • Agreed. I was referring to websites that are copyright, and not freely licensed. This applies to most websites, including those that have no explicit copyright notice. Bovlb 01:53:14, 2005-07-12 (UTC)
  • By the way, we're always concerned when people can't find the relevant pages. For example. Wikipedia:Copyright problems is linked from Wikipedia:Copyrights, which is linked from the bottom of every page in Wikipedia. Do you have any suggestions on how we could make this easier to find? Bovlb 01:38:50, 2005-07-12 (UTC)

On having problems finding this resource:

The "Copyright" link at the bottom of each page takes me to the LGPL; I didn't expect it to have useful instructions later on the page. The first place I'd looked was in the FAQ, which has a Wikipedia:Copyright_FAQ link, but that only seems to explain how to re-use Wikipedia's content. The Wikipedia:Fair_use page also seemed useless, although now I can find a link to the copyright problems talk page (which doesn't really help....).

Now that you've told me that I should be looking for "copyright problems", I can find the link in the FAQ / Problems / Copyright Problems... but I wouldn't have thought to look there first.

Also, on the Edit Page page, there's a "DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED ..." warning, but no link to what happens if you do (ie, the Copyright Problems page).

thanks again --Jeff 01:57, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • Are we sure that Jeff isn't looking at one of the many WP mirrors? hydnjo talk 02:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Things like that had occured to me, but in the particular article that triggered me to post this, Transmission Control Protocol, the text was lifted from an article on [Microsoft Support], and I doubt MS would touch [L]GPL with a 10-foot pole. Jeff 03:56, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
I haven't looked in depth at this particular possible copyright problem, but I have noticed that with technical, Internet-related articles like this, it can appear that a copy-vio has occurred when in fact, both sources are just quoting an RFC or something similar. —HorsePunchKid 04:06, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, well, in this particular case, the word "Windows" slipped into the text. No self-respecting RFC uses Windows as an example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rat144 (talkcontribs) 2005-07-11 23:11:03 CDT

Extra Attention[edit]

How can i mark a page as in need of "extra attention"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachsfanclub (talkcontribs) 2005-07-11 21:14:16 CDT

Where is Help Desk[edit]

I can't find the Wikipedia help desk. Where is it?

You're at it ask away :). Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:18, July 12, 2005 (UTC)


Why do my Help Desk questions keep getting deleted?


—Preceding unsigned comment added by Zachsfanclub (talkcontribs) 2005-07-11 21:23:12 CDT

  • For some reason keeps deleting your contributions, possibly accidentally. See my answer to your question above. Bovlb 02:32:11, 2005-07-12 (UTC)

Cookies not enabled, page gone?[edit]


I recently created a page called Rise_of_the_Hippies (, I made it on the 1st of July. Anyway, today, I came to check on it, see if anyone had changed it or anything, and, whoah, it's gone! So I go to login into my account (because I had that page on my watchlist, so I wanted to see if it still existed or if it had been deleted for some reason), but when I tried loging in, it said I had to have cookies enabled, but I do have cookies enabled, I even looked through my cookies and found wikipedia cookies. I use Firefox. I also tried logging in in Opera, and it still said I have cookies disabled. I can't try IE because my IE is screwed.

What's happening? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 2005-07-11 21:28:03 CDT

  • See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Rise of the Hippies. hydnjo talk 02:44, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Perhaps the "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name" text should link to the VfD page (if any), perhaps in the last bullet item, next to the candidates for speedy deletion link. Bovlb 03:10:46, 2005-07-12 (UTC)
  • Note also that another Wikipedian left you a note about this on your talk page on the 3rd of July. If you were able to log in (which no-one has yet addressed) you would have seen that you had a new message. Regarding your login problems, if you have not already done so, you might want to check HTTP cookie. Is it possible that you have installed software or are using a proxy that blocks cookies? Bovlb 03:17:32, 2005-07-12 (UTC)

Shrinking and aligning this table[edit]

For a table like this:

Island Political status
American Samoa (overseas United States territory)
Anuta (in the Solomon Islands)
Cook Islands (self-governing former territory of New Zealand)

How do I shrink it and fit it on the right side of a page?

Thanks, lots of issues | leave me a message 02:56, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

There. On the first line, after the "{|" put "width=X%" for however wide you want it (to shrink it) and "align=right" (to right-align). I did it myself for this table so it'd probably be easier if you just look what I wrote. Good luck. --Dmcdevit 03:42, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Simple question regarding page on Jesus[edit]

Why is there no mention on the possibility of Jesus traveling to India during his "lost years"? There are many books about this and weather someone belives it or not is one thing, but it should at least be mentioned shounldn't it?

For questions on factual topics (eg. Who is the pope?) see Wikipedia:Reference desk, that is the preferred location for factual questions, or you could always ask that question on talk:Jesus since that would also be an appropriate place to ask this question. Jtkiefer 06:18, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Four ways to answer your question occur to me.

  1. If you think an important fact is missing from an article, feel free to add it.
  2. If want to ask a question about an article, the article talk page Talk:Jesus is the best place, and the people who have been working on the page will see your question and respond.
  3. If you were asking whether Jesus went to India, as opposed to why it doesn't mention it in the article, the right place to ask would be the WP:Reference desk, rather than here at the Help desk.
  4. Or I could answer your question directly: because it is someone's fantasy for which there is not a shred of evidence beyond a slight vague similarity of some of the ethical teachings recorded. Lots of other fantasies and speculations about Jesus over the last 2 millennia have been omitted. alteripse 06:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia is edited by volunteers. If this is a well-documented fact, it could still be the case that no one came around to adding it before. - Mgm|(talk) 08:12, July 12, 2005 (UTC)


Sciguy47 06:25, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I want to put up a Neutrality Disputed banner. How do I do it?

double page[edit]

I want to insert a notice saying that the there are two articles about the same thing with different names. Where are the templates?? Couldn't find them. --Suspekt 08:09, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


Am would like to inquire on the courses that Bugema University is offering and if people outside Uganda have access to these courses.

regards Mulemwa.

  • You'd be better off contacting Bugema University directly about this. We are not connected to them. - Mgm|(talk) 10:31, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Template question[edit]

I'm trying to use 19°56′N 99°51′E / 19.933°N 99.850°E / 19.933; 99.850 on my wiki at home, but it doesn't work.

Template:Coor dm is displayed instead of the href and Latitude Longitude tuple that are shown on Wikipedia.

I imagine that my home media wiki 1.4.6 does not understand the Template?

Where can I "download" the Template, or whatever I need to do to make it work?

Thanks for your help.

  • Have you got Template:Coor dm on your home wiki? Otherwise you need to copy the code to the template on your own wiki and follow instructions on the related talk page. - Mgm|(talk) 10:34, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Where can I find the code for the template?

I found several pages that discussed the template... no code.

How do I install the code once I've found it?

Thanks again.

Follow the link to Template:Coor dm, click edit and copy the code from there. In general, to find the code for the template {{some_template}}, just look up [[Template:some_template]]. Most templates are in the Template namespace. If it's not, it's just a normal page and can be found at [[some_template]].
Templates, whether within the Template namespace or not, are just normal Wiki pages and don't need to be downloaded or installed into the MediaWiki in any way. Try, for instance, sticking the name of any page between curly brackets in the sandbox and you'll find that the contents of the page get displayed. Check the two links at Help:Template for more information. — Asbestos | Talk 11:16, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry.

I go to the Template:Coor dm, the edit page, and copied what was there :

{{{1}}}°{{{2}}}′ {{{3}}} {{{4}}}°{{{5}}}′ {{{6}}}

I guessed at what the positional parameters ought to be, faked it when I got to 7, saved it... what was produced was the whole string, with the numbers I gave, wrapped in three layers of curly braces.

{{{19}}}°{{{56}}}′ {{{N}}}{{{99}}}°{{{51}}}′ {{{E}}}

  • What you need to do is ensure that Template:Coor dm on your Wiki contains the same source as the corresponding page here. Then {{Coor dm}} should work for you. Bovlb 14:23:21, 2005-07-12 (UTC)
  • Ok:
  1. Copy the contents of the page (after clicking edit). You should get [{{{1}}}_{{{2}}}_{{{3}}}_{{{4}}}_{{{5}}}_{{{6}}}_{{{7}}} {{{1}}}°{{{2}}}′ {{{3}}} {{{4}}}°{{{5}}}′ {{{6}}}]
  2. Now, create a new page in your wiki called [[Template:Coor dm]]. Paste the contents of the above into the page and save it.
  3. On some other page, type {{coor dm|19|56|N|99|51|E|}}
  4. The link you made in your first post (19°56′N 99°51′E / 19.933°N 99.850°E / 19.933; 99.850) should show up in your wiki.
  5. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Geographical_coordinates for how to use the three different templates available (you'd have to copy and paste each one, as above, if you want them all).
  6. For details of the parameters, including the optional seventh one, see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates#Implementation_details
    Asbestos | Talk 15:45, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank You Asbestos! I did not understand the extra layer of indirection required to make it work.


I am working on

I create dm and place the Template there.

I place {{coor dm|19|56|N|99|51|E|}} on the sandbox page, but it shows up as Template:Coor dm

  • Try {{User:Jfl/Sandbox/Template:coor dm|19|56|N|99|51|E|}}. The default namespace for templates is the top-level Template one. Bovlb 03:42:06, 2005-07-13 (UTC)

Thank you Bovlb! It now works as expected. And thanks to all. I am developing an understanding of how all of this works. Jfl 04:54, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

The secret police:[edit]

I would like to know who the secret police of the soviet union (Russia) were and how did they operate?

Well, the reference desk is really the place where this question should go, not here. But to try to help you out... During what time period were you thinking of? Under what rulers? Were you thinking as far back as czarist Russia or maybe after the break up? You could probably start with the KGB which weren't all that secret but had a lot of secrets attributed to them. Dismas 12:30, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

What is a crimson tide?[edit]

(Reply) This is easier to answer than you might think. On the left of the Wikipedia screen is a box labelled Search. Just type crimson tide there and click the Go button. Notinasnaid 16:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

And if you're actually asking about the origin of the name for the University of Alabama sports teams, you might want to see this web page. -- Rick Block (talk) 00:34, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Renaming an article[edit]

How do I rename an article, if the title of the article (name of a person) is misspelled?

I was trying to enter a stub on Allan Lichtman and wound up misspelling it Allan Licthman.

Robert McClenon 17:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Click on move at the top of the page. Then enter the new name. Howabout1 Talk to me! 17:17, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Enter the new name in the correct field and don't forget to include a reason for the move. - Mgm|(talk) 18:00, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. That worked. (The reason for the move was that it had been misspelled.)

Robert McClenon 11:50, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Provide wikilink to a section of an article[edit]

How do I wikilink to a certain section of an article rather than just the article. e.g. On the Rangers F.C. page how do I link to the 'Honours' section rather than the whole article. Thanks in advance. - Forbsey 18:58, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

It'll look like this: Rangers_F.C.#Honours. Notice that if you're at an article and you click on that in the table of contents, that's what the web address reads as well, so you can just copy it all (starting with the article name) to be sure. Also, when you do redirects, they can't go to a specific section only articles. --Dmcdevit 19:33, July 12, 2005 (UTC)


                 NOBEL  LAUREATES


 Leland H. Hartwell

 Barbara McClintock


 Harold W. Kroto

 A. H. Zewail

 D. C. Hodgkin


 Wolfgang Ketterle      

 S. Chandrasekhar      

 Pierre-Gilles de Gennes

Nobel laureates: Their Publication productivity, collaboration and authorship status Scientometrics,62(2):261-268.

Follow this instruction: 

click on the following link,click on Browse Publications (A-Z), click on S, Click on Scientometrics, clck on Issue No.,to find Abstract.


PHYSICS NOBEL LECTURES 1981-1985,Scientometrics,61(1):.,4,10;journal,3,45;browsepublicationsresults,2114,2412; ......................




 Tibor Braun

 T. S. West

INDIAN SCIENTISTS >------------------------------------------------- > Bio-Medical and Agricultural Sciences > Vinodini Reddy

> M.S.Swaminathan

> K.Ramiah

> P.M. Bhargava

> C.R.Bhatia

> R.K.Mitra

L. L. Narayana

 U. R. Murty


Physical Sciences > C.V.Raman NOBEL LAUREATE PHYSICS

> P.K.Iyengar

> K.S.Krishnan

> Vikram Sarabhai

> R.Chidambaram

> R.G.Rastogi

> H.J.Bhabha

Productivity Reference Curve for Indian Scientists

Resistance to expert opinion[edit]

I remember seeing at one time an article about the potential for Wikipedia to marginalize input from experts. Does someone know where this might be? ᓛᖁ♀ 19:46, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like you're talking about that infamous Larry Sanger essay. Is this what you want? --Dmcdevit 22:53, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
I think that's it. Thanks! ᓛᖁ♀ 23:30, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
If you're interested in the opinions of experts who contribute, I'd be happy to give you mine. (As in, do I feel marginalized). -- Essjay · Talk 11:45, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

List of special Wikipedia keyboard shortcuts?[edit]

Dear Wikipedia help desk volunteer,
          I have just spent the last half hour searching throughout Wikipedia, trying to find a definitive list of the special Wikipedia keyboard shortcuts. What I mean is, for example... Normally in MS-Internet Explorer, the keyboard combination: Alt+F will pull down the file menu, however in Wikipedia the Alt+F keyboard combination causes the selection of the Search field, enabling the user to have quicker access to this field.

          There are at least 5 or 6 more similarly reassigned keyboard combinations that Wikipedia enables whenever it is browsed. Apparently Wikipedia uses some kind of keyboard reassignment script, that becomes functional whenever it is browsed.

          My question is, would anyone happen to know if there is a definitive list of these special Wikipedia keyboard shortcuts available anywhere, and if so, where? As apparently there was previously no Wiki article about this, I have started one at Wikipedia:Keyboard shortcuts which is still basically a stub.


                                                                                Scott P. 21:14, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

What to do if someone uses Wikipedia improperly?[edit]

If I see someone using Wikipedia for their own linking campaign for spammy sites, what should I do to report it?

I could not find a page to read up on this isssue.

You could start by removing it yourself, but try the wikipedia:admins noticeboard. Howabout1 Talk to me! 23:42, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
Spam is a common occurence, and most editors take it upon themselves to delete spam where they see it and leave notices on the talk pages of the users doing the spamming. If a particular user(s) is persistent, then do indeed being it to the attention of the admins at the noticeboard at the above link. — Asbestos | Talk 00:28, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Also, if you see a mass campaign (not one or two articles; like thirty or forty) and it's still going on (as in, they haven't stopped yet) report them at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Only use that page for items requiring immediate administrator intervention, though. -- Essjay · Talk 11:43, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

AD vs CE[edit]

I noticed an edit to Jewish leadership changing one to the other and now the article has mixed notation. What is WP policy (if any) about this? hydnjo talk 00:33, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

AIUI, mixed notation is discouraged, unless there's an obvious reason for it (like discussing the terminology). Best to stick with whatever was the dominant one before, or the one most appropriate for the context. Similar practice to, say, using British/American spellings - doesn't really matter which, since people will cope with both, but at least be consistent in any given article. (The obvious additional points are "don't go changing articles wholesale" and "if possible, use the more appropriate of the two styles", though this latter is less relevant for AD/CE than it is with spelling, when article titles may be in dispute...) Shimgray 00:41, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
policy is one thing practice is that we creap away quitely in the hope that no one will notice and start another edit war over this (or we change the whole thing to VE just to confuse people).Geni 00:48, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I should probably have mentioned that People Get Real Touchy About This One At The Moment, So Be Careful, yes... Shimgray 01:08, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
So, since both the lead-in and the only other reference were written as AD it would seem that to change only the second reference makes no sense at all. And it would seem that the editor that did that was wrong to do so. Correct? hydnjo talk 01:27, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Oh, and I don't know if this matters or not but the article originated as AD. hydnjo talk 01:37, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Originated as AD, is dominantly AD? Change back to AD for consistency. Shimgray 20:05, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
This issue is a can of worms. You may want to check out Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/BCE-CE Debate and all its associated subpages and talk pages (if you are brave!). Basically I'd just make sure an article is internally consistent, and then run like heck from any dispute about the notation. --Dmcdevit 01:55, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
And this is the anon's one and only edit (with no talk page of course). Any more advice before I act boldly? hydnjo talk 02:28, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Well, since I just noticed it's an article on Jewish ledership, perhaps the sentiment is that AD (effectively recognizing Jesus) is POV. This is similar to how we don't use CE on Jesus and related articles because it POV in the context of the article's subject. I'd say use your best judgment aand either change it all to CE if that makes it seem less POV, or change it back to whatever it was before. And if you do think it would be controversial, maybe raise the issue on the talk page of that, or associated higher-profile articles. But I'd tend to just be bold first. Good luck. --Dmcdevit 02:58, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • The best is to discuss these things on the article talk page. Elfguy 03:07, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Unseen text[edit]

Hello Wikipedia, I did a search on 'Kevin Trudeau' and my result came up three paragraphs shy of the full detail.

My search revealed the following:

" Kevin Trudeau is an "as seen on T.V." author of the book Natural Cures "They" Don’t Want You To Know About (ISBN 097559950X). In it he makes various claims about the safety and health of our food supply. Also he maintains the pharmaceutical industry is actively suppressing these cures, so that they can continue to profit from their patented treatments.

[edit] Legal trouble On September 7, 2004, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) announced that they were banning Trudeau from "appearing in, producing, or disseminating any future infomercials that advertise any type of product" because he repeatedly made "fraudulent" and "unsubstantiated" claims in them. Trudeau reportedly paid 500,000 dollars in cash and a luxury vehicle to suffice a $2 million dollar fine against him. The charges arose from work Trudeau did on an infomercial advertising Coral Calcium, a dietary supplement. However, Trudeau's infomercial advertising his book still airs on a daily basis because he is still allowed to promote publications.

[edit] Book

Trudeau's book In the book Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You To Know About, consumer advocate Kevin Trudeau claims that the Food and Drug Administration is actively banning all-natural cures so that consumers are forced to buy drugs and therefore support the drug industry. He also claims that there are all-natural cures for serious ailments such as cancer, attention deficit disorder, arthritis, acid reflux disease, herpes, and many other diseases. However, the drug industry would not take in any profits if consumers bought all-natural remedies, so Trudeau says that the FDA shuts these companies down in order to keep the drug industry in good financial shape. "It's all about the money" he says.

The other main issue in Trudeau's book is his accusation that the food industry is actively putting ingredients in food today like MSG that make people fat and make people addicted to that product. He also claims that growth hormone is being used on animals such as cows to make them grow faster, and therefore we are getting "hormone replacement therapy" just by eating at fast food restaurants. "

A friend of mine alerted me to the rest of the article (below) which he could see on his browser, but for some reason I cannot.

" Trudeau claims that many diseases are the result of toxins in our water and poisonous additives in our food supply. To attain health and become disease free one must eliminate toxins from the body by drinking only distilled water or spring water. Kevin and many others claim that tap water contains contaminants like chlorine, fluoride and should be avoided. Kevin advise using a shower filter and a reverse osmosis filter to mitigate the harmful effects of contaminants in our water supply. Kevin recommends other holistic detoxification methods such as colonic irrigation and herbal remedies.

According to Trudeau, another essential component to health is to nourish the body with 100% natural foods. Highly processed or even lightly processed food are devoid or lacking essential nutrients that the body needs to be strong and live free of disease. Trudeau advocates eating only Organic food, including vitamin, mineral and whole food supplementation. According to Trudeau nutritional deficiencies can lead to depression, lack of energy, lowered immunity, sickness and disease. Many foods like eggs and coconut oil which have been widely believed to be unhealthy, Kevin claims are perfectly healthy.

Kevin Trudeau encourages healthy lifestyle choices and reducing unnecessary stress such as excessive driving or dwelling on negative thoughts. Positive thinking, random acts of kindness (what goes around comes around), meditation and even having sex improves health.

Kevin says that chiropractic, homeopathy, acupuncture, and other alternative medicine have been the target of negative propoganda campaigns by the establishment despite having an excellent track record in treating their patients.

Beyond this claim Kevin insists that there are cures for many diseases like diabetes, heart disease and cancer that are deliberately supressed or outright banned by the FDA. Kevin begins his book with his own story when at the age of 21 he discovered he had a mitral valve defect in his heart, an incurable debilitating condition according to establishment medicine. Kevin claims his life was saved by a procedure which was performed in Mexico because it was banned in the United States. "

This is spam and your presentation is as dishonest as Kevin Trudeau. Go away. alteripse 03:04, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Uhm it would have been best not to copy the whole article. In any case, articles on Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. That means between 2 users watching the same article, there can be modifications and they see different versions. Click on the history tab on the top of the article to see the previous versions and who added what to it. Elfguy 03:06, 13 July 2005 (UTC)


The help page says to sign discussion entries with four tildes for handle and time. That worked last year, but after a period of inactivity it doesn't recognize me any more, showing me as unregistered like this: 04:42, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I can say Art LaPella, but then I don't get the date and time.

  • What happens when you try to log in? - Mgm|(talk) 05:06, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • I logged in, and that fixed it, at least for now. Thank you. Art LaPella 05:14, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

joseph wilson's ny times article[edit]

Are articles and books concerning the CIA subject to vetting and approval by the "company?" If so, who approved the Joseph Wilson article in the New York Times concerning "yellow cake" purchases? If the article did receive approval, why? If the article was approved by the agency, was it an attempt to protect the intelligence community from "bungling" by the administration? Without passing judgment on the article, my question is, how did it get published in the first place?

  • I'm confused as to why you would ask on Wikipedia information about a NY Time article.. In any case you should try the article's talk page or the Wikipedia:Reference desk. Elfguy 12:25, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Current and former CIA employees are bound by certain legal constraints on what they can publish, but everyone else, including Joe Wilson, are not. We have a free press and it would be impossible for the CIA to demand control over the media like that. At least so far. Give Bush a few more years, and after a couple of his extremist Supreme Court appointments, it may well be a different story. But for now, at least, this is still a free country. -asx- 00:45, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Multiple Topic Returns in Search Related Question[edit]

If I am searching for all articles on a specific topic, say a specific city, but I want a return for all the articles relating to that city, how do I do that search? When I try and search, all I get is the city's main page, but I'd like to expand it to all pages. This' especially helpful with smaller cities. Thanks!


If they exist, the Search button should turn them up. Perhaps you're hitting Go instead of Search. -- Cyrius| 05:41, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Hrm. There must be a problem with Wiki maybe?

IE when I do a search for "pirate" & click go, I get the main "pirate" page. When I click search, I get nothing except "Wikipedia search is disabled for performance reasons. You can search via Google or Yahoo! in the meantime.", along with search boxes for wiki, yahoo & google.


I also used to (as of yesterday) be able to search for a partial word search, ie typing in "pirat" & I would get everything with "pirat" (versus pirate) in it. That doesn't seem to be working.


in other langages[edit]

I copied a page from Wikipedia which had a section on the left labeled "in other langages" containing a list of links to pages on the same topic in other language wikis.

But no such section appears on my copied page. Instead the same links are just arrayed along the bottom of the page.

  • Did you copy the coding from the edit window or from the main article screen? Such links are usually written at the bottom of an article and later interpreted by the software and placed on the side of your screen. -Mgm|(talk) 09:39, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Right. I copied from the edit window.

[[de:Chiang Rai]] [[fr:Chiang Rai]] [[ja:チエンラーイ]] [[nl:Chiang Rai (stad)]] [[no:Chiang Rai]]

The links are arrayed, by the wiki software, in a box on the left of the screen in the original page, with href's pointing to the relevant language wiki and page; but at the bottom of my copied page, as local href's. As Above.

Can you please provide a link to the copied page? -- Rick Block (talk) 14:02, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I cannot. The copied page is on a machine behind a firewall that cannot be reached from the outside.

If you look at this page in the edit window you can see exactly what's been copied between the nowiki tags.

In the original window that markup produces the box on the left, with the pointers to the actual language wikis.

In my window that markup produces local pointers to nonexistent pages.

There must be something I have not installed or configured on my local wiki which is present on the wikipedia wiki and which causes the correct, external pointers to be generated in the page the wikipedia sends over the wire.

  1. We have edited the page on Wikipedia and the 'in other languages' sections now displays correctly, although it is and was identical to the markup which would not so display here 'at home'. So we are still unsure what the trouble was. Thanks for all your help.

praying with shoe on[edit]

why most of muslim of nowadys abandon praying with shoe and practicing bid'a of puting their shoes outside the mosque?

  • As far as I know muslims have left their shoes at the "front door" of their mosque for ages. They have to wash their feet in order to be clean when they enter the holy place. As far as I'm aware, most mosques have storage facilities for shoes, so people don't have to leave them outside, but that may be different in some countries. - Mgm|(talk) 09:43, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Interwiki: Stub[edit]

Hi. I'm hoping to get some help here to solve a dispute in the Interlingua wikipedia. In the Iawiki, the term 'Esbozo' is used for stubs, but this has been disputed. As part of resolving that dispute, I'm trying to find out what 'Stub' articles are called in other langauges. The problem is that templates, naturally, can't have interlangauge links to other templates, and I can't read most of the other langauges well enough to find a stub article and look it up myself

I need to know what "stub" articles are called in French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Russian, Dutch, and German. Other languages would also be handy (I know they're called "gxermoj" in Esperanto), especially Scandinavian languages, but aren't 'officially' used to derive words.

Gratias! Almafeta 08:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

In French it's "bouchon", in Spanish "esbozo", in Italian "stub", in Portuguese "esboço", in Russian "Болванка" ("bolvanka"), in Dutch "beginnetje" ("a little start"), in German "Stub". See "in other languages" on Wikipedia:Find or fix a stub. David Sneek 09:03, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Thank you.  :) You can close this request now. Almafeta 11:54, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Sub domain wiki's[edit]

I wanted to know , how wikipedia , handles the wikis of different languages . i.e, ,

 * is this done by having different instance of mediawiki and different instances of database
  * is it just one many wiki instance and one datbase instance
  * is it just one wiki instance and one wiki database , if yes , how to acieve it 

Thanx heaps,

New articles[edit]

When I make an article, especially an article at ÉFF, it is almost immediately deleted. It is quite short but I have put {{stub}} on it! -- 11:47, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I have no particular advice, but would ask whether you have tried checking Watch this page. Maybe someone dislikes your article and is behaving badly by deleting it. Can some more knowledgeable person make a comment?

Robert McClenon 11:54, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

It may be that someone felt that the article did not seem as if it belonged in an encyclopedia, or that it was simply too short and uninformative, or too like a dictionary definition, or that because it did not include enough context it seemed like nonsense. Of course, all of these are wild guesses as we cannot now see the article, and I have no idea what ÉFF is. The nice people here may have some suggestions about whether it is suitable or needs particular changes but perhaps you could reply here with the full text of what you wrote? Notinasnaid 11:59, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I've found no evidence there was ever an article at ÉFF. At least, the deletion log, doesn't show a thing. Are you sure that's the exact title you used? - Mgm|(talk) 12:06, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
    • Looking at the contribution history of the person asking the question [1] I came accross an edit on 16 June at talk:?ff. Clicking any of the links (article, history or diff) leads to the Bad title page with a url of %EF%BF%BDff. I suspect this is a hangover from before the unicode conversion, and so the best bet is to try starting an article at ÉFF or Éff (where there also has never been an article), whichever is aprorpiate. Thryduulf 13:44, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Orphaned Pages[edit]

I found ur site by accident about 2 months ago and I am hooked. I think that the random page link is great. Leads me to articles I never knew even existed. My question is about the orphaned page site. What does that mean? Are these pages that people don't veiw anymore or haven't viewed in some time? Thank you.

Orphaned pages are ones that aren't linked to by any other article; see Wikipedia:Orphan. You can de-orphan an article by linking to it from another article (if it's appropriate, obviously); you can find orpahns by clicking on the "what links here" link in the toolbox. It could even become a game of "find the orphan": click "random page", then when one loads, click "what links here." If it's an orphan, de-orphan it. If not, click "random page" again and keep going. Fun and helpful! -- Essjay · Talk 15:09, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
It's ur site too! :D -asx-

Linking to sub-articles, without awkward link name[edit]

In the Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom article, the first line reads:

The United Kingdom has an uncodified constitution...

I wanted to change the constitution link to uncodified constitution, being as that would be more straightforward and convienient than constitution; however, linking to uncodified constitution only redirects to constitution. Within the constitution article, I clcked the "uncodified constitution" link, and from the address, got this link name(title? whatever)- Constitution#Uncodified_constitution.

Long story short, I wanted to replace the constitution link in the Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom with Constitution#Uncodified_constitution, but this replacement doesn't integrate smoothly with the text.

Is there a way to do this without, for example, creating a new article on an uncodified constitution? I know it seems trivial, but I have run into the same problem on a couple other articles, and was just wondering what I am missing. Thanks!


Just for simplicity: You would end up typing [[Constitution#Uncodified_constitution|uncodified constitution]]. -- Essjay · Talk 15:57, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • See also bug #218 about making redirects to section headings work. It was closed WONTFIX because of the lack of a satisfactory technical solution. Since then, a new technical solution has been proposed. Bovlb 16:13:21, 2005-07-13 (UTC)

    • Thank you both! -M

Claiming a username which was grabbed by a vandal[edit]

Hi, I'm running an interwiki bot on de: and many other Wikipedias. I'm using the username 'Zwobot' on all these sites. Now I wanted to create a similar account on en:, but I noticed that a vandal has grabbed this username: User:Zwobot. He used it only once [2], obviously pretending to be me (he used a machine-translated German summary text).

Is it possible to delete this account in order to make it possible for me to use that username? --Head July 6, 2005 22:40 (UTC) (P.S.: I already asked for help here, but nobody reacted, so I'm posting again)

I don't think so; but you could use a similar name and leave a note on the vandal account's page that it isn't you. I'm pretty sure that accounts can't be deleted by admins, but maybe a developer could help you. -- Essjay · Talk 17:07, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Problem with an Image[edit]

The image in South_Asian_Association_for_Regional_Cooperation article has misspelled the name of two countries (India and Bhutan). I could not edit or replace the image. The image in question is I don't know what to do as I'am new to Wikipedia.

That's because the image was copied from the French Wikipedia. The only way to get a correct version would be to download the image, edit it yourself in Photoshop or some equivalent, and re-upload it. Best wishes, Meelar (talk) 18:19, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
...or you could ask the original creator of the image to produce a new version with the english spellings. Leave a message at fr:Discussion Utilisateur:Nataraja - Nataraja's user page there indicates he speaks english pretty well. Generally people are very happy to help. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:41, July 13, 2005 (UTC)


How do you mark something as being in a category?--Anti-Anonymex2 20:19, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Just put [[Category:Category name]] at the bottom, replacing "Category name" with the name of the category. Hermione1980 20:23, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

What is WikiPedia's policy regarding citations including Library of Congress Classification Codes, Dewey Codes or Colon Classification Codes? What is the policy re listing BT, NT, RT for Broader, Narrower and Related Terms?--merosonox 09:00, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

A child's right to His natural Father[edit]

Please refer all factual questions to the reference desk.

I moved this question with the answers to the ref desk (look here). alteripse 10:52, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

VfD administrivia[edit]

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Pelloud has been voted on for over a month now and not closed presumably because it's missing the date subdirectory. Can an administrator move it to the correct directory or close the VfD regardless? Thanks. Samw 00:39, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

It's been listed on VfD since July 6. Can you show me me a link to where something shows it's been around longer (maybe there's a previous vfd)? --Dmcdevit·t 00:46, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, you're both correct, my apologies for the confusion. Samw 03:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Why doesn't my contribuition appear when i type the article name in the search engine?[edit]


Last weekend i made a contribuition called "San Miguel Arcangel de la Frontera mission" but now when i try to find it via the search engine it says that "no page with that title exists"... the only way i can access it is via tipying "mission" on the search engine... the click on "spanish missions in California" and then click on the link "San Miguel Arcangel de la Frontera", which by the way is the route i took in the first place to make my contribuition.

There also exists another mission called just "San Miguel Arcangel" and i put what i think is called a "redirect" at the top of that page so you could click on the link there to get to my contribuition... but now if you type on the search engine "San Miguel Arcangel" or "San Miguel Arcangel de la frontera" neither appear, only the text, as i mentioned before, that "no page with that title exists"...

Could you please help me out? and also let me know what it was i did wrong so that this wont happen again?...

   Thanks, EjidoMike 01:52, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
I just searched for "San Miguel Arcangel de la Frontera mission" and found it. The search tool is case-sensitive just like article titles, so make sure your capitalizing the necessary words. --Dmcdevit·t 02:16, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Just remember that if it doesn't come to your page directly, you can always use the 'search' methods that it gives on the 'No page with that title exists' page, below the search box, and they should find it. Seeaxid 02:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Ok... i found it!! thanks, both of you... =) i'll remember that in the future. EjidoMike 04:29, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

What if an album title redirects to something else?[edit]

I was looking at the Heartsdales page, and I wanted to see what information was up for their albums. Their first album, Radioactive, redirects to Radioactive decay, which has absolutely nothing to do with Heartsdales. =/ None of the other single/album links link to a page that has anything to do with Heartsdales, either. I'm pretty new to this, and so I don't know all that much. But is there a way to fix that? --StarPrincessLita 03:49, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

You could create Radioactive (album). -- Essjay · Talk 04:02, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

^^;; Ok...also, I know it's not allowed to copy information straight off of another website. But what about off of another Wiki, like from Some of the stuff on there is exactly the same as here. --StarPrincessLita 04:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Well you have to look at the copyright notices. has a copyright notice at the bottom of the page. which state that "Content is available under Attribution-ShareAlike" Looing at the to get the definition of that licence it states that "Share Alike. If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under a license identical to this one." Now Wikipedia pages are subject to the GFDL which is not identical to the cc attribution-sharealike. So in theory (and IANOL) it looks to me as if you can't copy and paste stuff from their wiki to ours. However there is nothing to stop you from rewriting the page into your own words. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 07:04, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Alright...interesting then. Take a look at the Heartsdales page on both. (Just as an example) It's exactly word-for-word, at least for the main page (and not the single/album pages). *shrugs* Ok.

  • It appears that our article was copied from theirs with no attempt to comply with the licence. I have removed it. See WP:CP#July 14. Please let us know if you see any other examples. Bovlb 14:50:14, 2005-07-14 (UTC) See also MediaWiki talk:Copyrightwarning for a discussion about how to make copyright concerns more obvious to new users. Bovlb 14:53:00, 2005-07-14 (UTC)

One last thing. When I go to the Heartsdales page, then it says I can write a new article at a temporary page. I got most of my information from the Heartsdales page at, and is it ok if I take some of that information and just rewrite it to make the Heartsdales page here? Basically using the same information but in my own words, is that alright? --StarPrincessLita 15:02, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

  • That's fine. Information isn't copyright, only its specific expression. IANAL, TINLA. Note, please be patient with the WP:CP gnomes who will delete the page and copy over your temp page. Bovlb 15:05:58, 2005-07-14 (UTC)

Great! ^^ I'll get to work on that, then. ^^ --StarPrincessLita 15:09, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

getting in touch with trevor horn(producer)![edit]

hi my name is oscar. i am a singer and i have recorded a demo that i have been told by others is very good. i would like to get in touch with Mr trevor horn as not only am i a massive fan of his work but i would like for him to somehow listen to the c.d. or even better give me advice on how best to produce it.. this is a very strange request i know but any which way you can help i would be eternally gratefull.

regards Oscar


A) We don't have any connection with this Trevor Horn person. B) Questions here are about how the Wiki works and help with using it. Questions such as yours and who the Pope is and such belong on Wikipedia:Reference desk. Dismas 13:55, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I want to help Wikipedia.[edit]

Hello, I noticed today that the Wikipedia search was "disabled for performance reasons."

I'm curious if this disabling could have been prevented by a more efficient search? Or perhaps some other software related issue.

I'm a skilled programmer who might be able to provide assistance. I'm wondering whom I could contact about offering help.

Thanks, David - wikipediapublicemail at defective dot net (email reformatted for security)

PS, I would love a spell check feature in text inputs. That's another thing I'd like to help with.

I'm pretty sure spell check has been suggested before and shot down; I don't remember the reason. As for the search being disabled, I run across that every now and then, but it's usually back if you try again; could it be that there was just too much traffic on the servers at the moment you clicked "search"? -- Essjay · Talk 07:35, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
But you could still take a look at meta:Development tasks. I have a feeling Wikipedia is always looking for new developers. You may want to contact one of them if you're interested. By the way, User:Humanbot did automated spell checks with human supervision. --Dmcdevit·t 07:57, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, but that was on existing articles. Best option for new input is to use a bookmarklet or a Firefox extension or Greasemonkey script depending on what browser you use. - 08:15, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Adding a link on the Cellular Automata articles list.[edit]

I have tried to understand the on-line help, and I just don't get it. I want to add a link from the Cellular Automata page to John von Neumann's page. That is, when I look at Cellular Automata, I see there are 22 articles in the category Cellular Automata. Von Neumann should appear as one of the articles, preferably under the letter V. So, my problem is that I just do not see within the on-line documentation how to accomplish this goal. In particular, I would like to add material regarding von Neumann's model of Cellular Automata, as I am an expert in that field. So, since there is not now a page that gives details on the cells, nor how they work in combination, I would like to add that information. Clicking on the article John von Neumann (or, should it be, von Neumann, John?) ought to get the user to a page that provides details on von Neumann's model, and that page I would like to contribute. You can see that I have already added detail to the page Mathematics/Cellular Automata/Universal Constructor, correcting some misconceptions of previous contributors. Yet, nowhere on that page are the details of von Neumann's cellular automata model itself. It would generally be inappropriate to include that information on the Universal Constructor page, as Universal Constructors can be constructed in many kinds of Cellular Automata, or, indeed, in many environments that are not Cellular Automata. In fact, von Neumann's original notion of a Universal Constructor is surprisingly consistent with the contemporary notion of a robot. The Cellular Automata model of a Universal Constructor was an outgrowth of suggestions from Stanislaw Ulam, and owe to von Neumann's lament that it would be exhorbitantly expensive to stock a sea of parts from which his robotic Universal Constructor could construct its replicant. Ulam suggested that the mathematical abstraction of Cellular Automata would make the task much less costly.

Please, do provide me a little bit more detail regarding the

 1. adding of an article about von Neumann to the Cellular Automata page
 2. providing such links and categories to allow readers to navigate to that new page, should they have
    interest in von Neumann within the context of Cellular Automata
 3. show me how to avoid automatic connection to the page regarding the person of von Neumann

Thank you very much for your kind attention to this matter.

William R. Buckley

  • Links are made using double brackets like '[[John Von Neumann]]' or in case you want to name it differently than the actual title [[John Von Neumann|von Neumann]]. If you want to put his article in a category, go to his article and put [[Category:Category name|Von Neumann, John]] at the bottom there. Please consider registering, or if you've already done so, to sign your questions with four tildes like this ~~~~. - 08:22, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

how do you send messages?[edit]

How do you send messages on here?

  • I presume you mean on talk pages? If so, then go to the talk page of the user for whom you want to leave a message, then click "edit this page" and leave your message at the bottom, unless they have different instructions on their page. You can find thier talk page by clicking on thier name in thier signature and then clicking the link at the top of the page that says "discussion." Some users (like me) have a link to their talk page in thier signature; if so, you can click directly on that link to be taken to thier talk page. Don't forget to sign your post with the four tildes (~~~~); our software will automatically change it to your username and the date. -- Essjay · Talk 09:16, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
  • And if you've entered a valid email during your registration or later in your preferences, you can also click the "E-mail this user" that appears in the menu when you visit their userpage. - Mgm|(talk) 10:30, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
    • Why, yes, that's true; thank you for thinking of that MGM! -- Essjay · Talk 10:43, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

sewage backup[edit]

I live in a house and the original owners had a sewage backup problem and it created some sort of flooding of the lower level of the house. I don't know what was done to repair the mess but I do know that when I moved into this house, the carpeting (lower level) buckled and even though a few rooms were re-carpeted, one, at least, still buckles. The lower level is also quite damp and a mustiness can be smelled on entering the house. Can methane gas created from sewage problems in a home, cause health problems or allergies. The lower level also has mould in areas. I am new to this site. I typed in methane on my home page and it led me to Wickipedia.

Questions such as this would be better suited at the Wikipedia:Reference desk. This page is for questions about how the Wiki works. Dismas 14:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Adding an infobox[edit]

I would like to know how to add an infobox and how to edit it. I would like to be answered with the markup I need and any advice or whatever has to be taken into account. Thanx

  • Have you read Wikipedia:Infobox yet? Markup may differ per specific infobox. Which one do you want to add and to which article? - 11:45, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

There is no clear answer to my general question[edit]

What's your question? You never know, we might have a clear answer. -- Essjay · Talk 11:26, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

How censorshihp works in here and how to cite wibsite sources which may not have clear author?

If there is free participation in Wikipedia (at least I understand it that way) there is very easy way to write about issues which have no sense or events which never happened. How then any edition and control of such informations works? As the platform for so many topics for so many people, wikipedia can deliver all we are looking for and at the same time we can ?freely add what we know and would love all other readers know. HOwever, among all people there are always some who do not want to create the knowledge but to play with the freely available space to provide wrong information so then expressing their dishonesty but also harm those whose search ended up on such wrong information. How then, Wikipedia censorship works? In addition to this aspect, there is one more I need to ask: I didn't find in here information about one of the best pianists of 20 century. However, I have sources to present them in here but they are not only my words but there are sources I can bring that information from (like making compilation essay). How then can I do that and how can I present the source for that information, esciecially that some of them are from different websites with no clear authorship?

Wikipedia operates on the principle that there are more good people than people willing to disrupt the system, and that the appeal of abusing a system which is so easily (and frequently) abused is so limited that a "good job" of vandalism is unlikely.
In response to your other query, "best" pianists of any age is a Point of View thing, and Wikipedia is set up to present a Neutral viewpoint at all times. But if you can't find information on some specific pianists, by all means add it, and add them to any pages you can find listing pianists (or even add those pages too). If you're taking work from other sources, rewrite it (the wording is theirs, but in most cases the information isn't), and if appropriate give reference to the articles in a "References" section at the end. --Zootm 11:39, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

There are a number of systems in place to keep Wikipedia under control. See Wikipedia:Replies to common objections for additional information about the project and how it is monitored.

Second, if you have sources you would like to work from, please feel free to draft an article; be aware however, that you cannot post direct copies of any copyrighted work on Wikipedia. Also, please be sure that any information you include, while in your own words, is the result of a verified source, and not your personal opinion. Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers has a great deal of useful information on how to contribute to Wikipedia. -- Essjay · Talk 11:42, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Quick Latin->English Translation[edit]

Hi - I thought it'd be nice to translate the five word inscription on Image:RLSS Bronze Medallion.jpg into English; however, the only wiki pages I can see relating to translation are for whole articles from other language wikis so I'm not sure where togo. Alternatively, can somebody who reads this translate it for me? I can't imagine it's exactly a gruelling task if you know any Latin (I don't know a single word). Drw25 14:32, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

  • I've found a Latin speaker - so hopefully I'll have no need for an answer to this query. – drw25 (talk) 16:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

adding external links[edit]

Hello, I have just read an article in the Washington Post which would be a fine addition to the Animal Hoarding page.

I do not see a way to add external links on the editing page.

How is that done?

See Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page#Links_and_URLs (external links are covered towards the bottom). — Asbestos | Talk 15:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

REDIRCT from an article to a category[edit]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, I didn't find it in my searches. Pointers gratefully accepted. I am helping create content on another MediaWiki engine based project BrickWiki and in the course of organising things we are replacing a number of articles with categories. I'll leave whether that's goodness or not to later... suffice it to say that as articles get replaced, it seems to make sense that they be turned into REDIRECTS to their category replacement so that searches work (or does it make sense??) rather than just deleted

Here's an example: this article redirects to the category Bridges. I used the syntax

  #REDIRECT [[:category:bridges]] 

and the redirect indeed does take you to the category. But the category's articles and subcategories are missing! Apparently coming in via redirect means that the engine doesn't know it's a category or something? Contrast how it looks if you go directly there (click the category link rather than the article link, above)... (don't read too much into the lack of actual content there, we're just getting started in many areas and want to try to get some of the categorization stuff understood first)

Is it possible to redirect an article to a category, and have the category's articles and subcats appear? If so, how? What am I doing wrong? Thanks for any tips! ++Lar 19:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

(and ps, if any closet LEGO heads want to jump in and add some content or help organise things, that would be spiffy!! BrickWiki aims to be more indepth on LEGO than Wikipedia is, but retain ties (many articles are referenced or lifted with credit) and retain the Wiki Nature.)

Yep, sorry but redirects to categories don't work currently. Take a look at bug 710 for more info. So right now, redirects to categories are not used and in fact deleteable. Sorry. --Dmcdevit·t 19:40, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
k, thanks for that! I did not think to look in bugs, because I was sure it was just cluelessness on my part. I won't redirect to categories HERE and the community will have to decide whether to disallow it on BrickWiki... 'preciate the speedy answer! ++Lar 19:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


How can you tell if someone is a sockpuppet?--Anti-Anonymex2Come to my page! 21:59, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Developers can, but I just ask the user if they are. You can tell if two or three users vote in the same way on a proposal and that is their only eit. Howabout1 Talk to me! 22:47, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

  • You should also take into account similarities in editing style and articles they edit. - Mgm|(talk) 05:13, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Bruce Campbell Interview: 7/18:[edit]

Hey, Wikipedia!

I'm a friend of Bruce Campbell's from a film I did opposite him for Sci Fi Channel, "Terminal Invasion." Bruce is scheduled to be my guest on Monday, 7/18 at 4 pm on, a radio show I do each week.

I see that Wikipedia has a popular Bruce Campbell page. If you could by any chance put a blurb on an appropriate page of your site, I'm sure the fans would appreciate it, and so would I! (I'm not sure how to do this on your site!)

During the interview, the fans can email in questions for Bruce, and Bruce will answer live...if they miss the interview, they can listen to it in the archives.

If you have any questions, let me know! I'm available by email at this address...

Thanks for spreading the word!!! We all appreciate it.

Best, Chase Masterson

Sorry, but Wikipedia is neither free advertising nor a blog. Might want to read over those pages. We are an encyclopedia. Feel free to contribute any encyclopedic information you can! --Dmcdevit·t 22:46, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Chase Masterson is trying to spam Wikipedia? I don't know how I feel about that. :) -- Cyrius| 23:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

AGWIII aka Grayson Walker aka Rex Judicata[edit]

SqueakBox, you are on the right track with your conclusion about AGWIII. He is Alvan Grayson Walker, III aka... Grayson Walker aka ... AGWIII aka ... Rex Judicata aka ... Vatray aka ... Babbie aka .... Barbara Diaz aka .... Barbara Rodriguez..... he morphes into many aliases. Don't be as 'fooled' as those poor subscribers of Parents Without Rights ... if they only new the real reason he wasn't allowed to see his son! EDNA

Is it appropriate to have this attack paragraph here? Does this leave Wikipedia open to libel or slander concerns? John Barleycorn 23:53, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Chinese names[edit]

When including a Chinese name in a list with Western names, what is the proper format? For example, in the article on the University of Arizona, I added Fang Lizhi (family name first). If I preferred Lizhi Fang for alphabetical purposes, it wouldn't link properly.

There is no official answer, do what you please. Chinese names are very flexible. Don't worry about it -- no one will care. No one will raise a ruccus either way. i.m. pei. Pei is the family name. I.M. Pei has no problem with the anglicized order. Many people don't either

The entry on water is profane.[edit]

Hi. I went into the entry called Water and got this message on the page "f... you all." I'd guess this is happening on other pages, too. Can you do anything about this? Thanks

sleep issues[edit]

Hi, I am new to wikipedia. I am quite concerned about the sleep page (narcolepsy too). Understandably it has been marked for cleanup. I am a sleep researcher (8 years post phd, well respected) and see that there appears to be a lone scientist "mrsandman" trying to clean up the content. Unfortunately it seems that other laypeople can have the ability to overwrite his posts according to their whims or what they "feel they know intuitively". This makes a bad impression for me regarding wikipedia. I'd love to jump in and help fix the content, as public education is an important intrest of mine. However, I won't if it means blowing away large amounts of time when people with opinions, not facts, can wipe my work away.

Is there any help for this situation? how is this type of problem solved by your group?

thank you in advance, I would really like to help here. will you please also reply by email, this wiki format is confusing to me. J. Faraco (stanford center for narcolepsy research)

  • The very nature of Wikipedia means that anyone can edit any article and put in what they think is best. The hope is that, over time, the good will outweight the bad, and the truth will emerge. Feel free to contribute to the article, but be aware that anyone you write can be edited. Elfguy 01:12, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

See discussion with our intuitor at Talk:Anabolism. I think with patience we make progress. alteripse 01:21, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi, this is a common concern from new editors. You should read Replies to common complaints about amateurs, I think you'll appreciate it. Remember: "Amateurs generally recognize when they're dealing with an expert, and start contributing differently — by asking questions, saying which bits of an article are unclear, and doing some research 'grunt work'. Wikipedia benefits from having amateurs and experts work together." --Dmcdevit·t 01:30, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
One other point may be worth raising. (I have been careful not to read the article, so I don't know how this applies). Wikipedia is not a medical textbook. That has two particular consequences. (1) It should be more accessible than a medical textbook, using only terms well known or defined elsewhere in the encyclopedia. A different style of explanation might be appropriate. (2) It need not be confined to the medical point of view. For any condition, it would be appropriate to include information on history, including historical misunderstandings, folklore, popular misunderstandings, views of alternative medicine, and theories proposed outside the medical establishment always provided that the status of such information is made very clear. Where articles go bad, it can mean that there is not enough separation into topics. The scientifically minded should not be offended to see sections labelled "folklore" or "popular theories outside the medical establishment" and should probably not even read them, still less remove them. Just a thought; again, I don't know how relevant this is. Notinasnaid 10:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

In a word, not. You need to read the article histories and talk pages to understand how irrelevant your comments are to Dr Faraco's distress. The very earnest and polite contributor referred to has been attempting to insert his own intuited (his term) and very idiosyncratic fantasies about sleep and metabolism into the articles, despite 3 kinds of problems: violation of our no original research rules, use of tecnhical terms in a completely idiosyncratic way so that a reader who looked them up in a scientific dictionary could make no sense of his text, and finally trying to integrate these ideas into the existing scientific text apparently oblivious to how non-compatible and "non-consilient" his novel theories are. We have a very limited number of genuine experts willing to contribute here and Dr Faraco is raising the obvious question that each asks after running into the inevitable earnest but clueless amateur who doesn't even know what he doesn't know but is willing to persistently attempt to insert it in the middle of, or even instead of, authoritative information about factual subjects. Most quickly move on. Every type of encyclopedia has its strengths and weaknesses: many of us feel that this is our greatest weakness, and we need to look for creative ways to mitigate it without ruining the things we like about WP. Haven't you wondered why you can count on one hand the number of professionals who are willing to contribute relatively accurate and complete articles on their subjects of expertise here? alteripse 11:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I haven't read the article in question. However, having read Alteripse's summary, I have a suggestion. Isn't there a template that can be added that states that the accuracy of the article has been questioned? Couldn't he also then post a Request for Comments asking for other knowledgeable people to review the article?

Yes there is. it is {{disputed}} (t/l). It serves as a warning to readers, and can help spur discussion on the relevant talk page. An RfC is a possible further step. DES 23:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


I've written a thesis with completely new ideas about the world we live in and would like to have it issued on Wikipedia, but I would Link title not want it 'edited' by anybody.

How do I go about doing this? Astrid

Then you need to put it on a different wiki. alteripse 01:23, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

What Alteripse means is that one of the central tenets of Wikipedia is No original research. This is an encyclopedia, not a primary source or journal. Also, you'll see this notice every time you edit: If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it. --Dmcdevit·t 01:36, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
Wikisource or Wikibooks might be better suited to your needs than Wikipedia. I don't know enough about either the projects or your requirements to be certain though. Thryduulf 10:25, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


When I look at my contributions list, it doesn't show the namespace. Is this part of mediawiki 1.5? It is very useful to see what edits I have made on talk pages. Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:05, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Worksforme. -- Cyrius| 03:23, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Me too. If you do all the normal things on your end (clearing cach, reboot, etc.) does it still do it? May want to take it to the bug report. --Dmcdevit·t 04:26, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry for my ignorance, how do you clear your cache? Howabout1 Talk to me!
Try clicking on Refresh while holding down the Ctrl key. NoSeptember- 04:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Nothing special happened. I'll just clarify my question so as to avoid mis-communication. When I click on my contributions, there is no bar letting you chose the namespace. Thanks. Howabout1 Talk to me! 04:37, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
I see what you are saying. The only thing I can change on the My Contributions page is the number of entries per page. (No hiding minor edits etc.) This should be a Village Pump - technical question. NoSeptember- 04:41, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I do believe it was a previous feature, I seems to have been removed along with the text: "Showing below up to 23423 results starting with #9889." (I've used random numbers), for what reasons I'm unsure Seeaxid 07:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I'll take it to the pump. Howabout1 Talk to me! 14:45, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Text overlapping image frame problem[edit]

In my resolution of 800x600, text on the article Ireland overlaps the uppermost image (the world map). To be exact, "rrently a part of the" is overlapping.

What is the best way to fix this? --Commander Keane 11:46, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Editing Minor Errors / Suggestive Editing[edit]

Sure hope this isn't dumb . . .

I have noticed a number of minor errors in some of the articles for example; the use of the chemical abreviation 'C' in reference to Calcium. I believe 'C' = Carbon and 'Ca' = Calcium.

Also what appear to be minor errors in spelling, grammar and phrasing causing the poor old eyeballs to do the occasional double-take.

Problem is I am not an authority on chemistry and english usage is not universal and therefore subject to debate.

Is it possible to do a 'Suggestive Edit' which is then subject to review by the original authors/contributors? In this way I can perhaps make a small contibution by "offering" improvements and corrections that would enhance an article or pick up a small mistake that has been overlooked

Great Stuff though - it sure has come on since the last time I looked . . .



Your best bet is to go ahead and make the change; it will most likely be seen by another editor. All edits to Wikipedia are subject to review, that's the beauty of the project! -- Essjay · Talk 12:08, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
If you want to try and ensure your edits are checked, try putting something like "Please check changes for accuracy" in the Edit summary box. Shimgray 12:38, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
  • C is indeed Carbon. Ca is Calcium. If you're unsure whether your edits are "correct" you can also post a note here pointing at your edits when you're done. Always try to verify your information somewhere. Happy editing. - Mgm|(talk) 12:50, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

how to prove the riemann hypothesis[edit]

i read comments on my paper how to prove the riemann hypothesis the commentator said that he skimmed the proof and that the proof is ugly nasty broken no proof at all ado junk ......etc i give my deep thanks and admire him for his distinguished scientific attitude .fayez fok al adeh.

  • Should probably discuss that on the article's talk page. Elfguy 14:55, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Most Wikipedia contributors already know how to prove the Reimann Hypothesis but we don't want the secret to get out. Manning 15:38, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Missing text on a page[edit]

Hi, I was visiting your site (great resource, by the way), and I noticed that, on the generic "Indonesia" page, the first line of text ends abruptly, and appears to be missing quite a bit of content. Could you check it out? I'd fix it myself, but I have no way of knowing what text is supposed to be there!

Thanks for your time.

Jonathan Quirk

It seems that there has been quite a bit of vandalism to that article today, the 15th. You can see the changes by going to the "history" page of the article. The link is at the very top of the page. Dismas 14:08, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


Hello I am in need of finding the turningin radius for a semi-truck. If anyone knows who or how to contact to find this information I would appreciate it very much!!!!! Please let me know as soon as possible


I would think that contacting the maker of whichever model you're looking at would be the easiest way. They probably have a web page with all the relevant info. You don't even say if it's a Freightliner or Mack or anything, so how are we supposed to know? Dismas 14:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
See the reference desk for factual questions. It tells you that right at the top of the page. -- Cyrius| 15:51, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Fast food[edit]

I am doing a research paper for school. I would like to use your information, but if I don't have an author I can't use it.

Here are the 2 links I need authors for:


  1. I suggest this question belongs on Wikipedia:Reference desk
  2. When you are on those pages (above links), click on history to see who entered what data.
    1. Link to the user pages associated with those edits. Even then, you might not have the author name, just the pseudonym they using here.
    2. Depending on what kind of school this is for, you could try making up a name for an author. You can get kicked out of College, never to return, for doing that, but it is often acceptable behavior at the Secondary school level.
  3. Recognize that you may be asking for something that does not exist. Wiki is not intended to be works that are created by a few people called "authors" but intended to be a community shared effort, that will later be improved by other contributors. AlMac 15:06, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I would say this question belongs here, as it's not related to facts in the real (non-wikipedia) world. The page you're looking for is probably Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. And I wouldn't try making up author names--that's ususally frowned upon, at least in my high school. Best wishes, Meelar (talk) 15:10, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Choosing the right name for a person[edit]

I want to create a stub article for the mathematican Richard K. Guy. Currently the page exists, and is a redirect to Winning Ways for your Mathematical Plays. There are currently about 10 references to him as Richard Guy and 6 as Richard K. Guy (and I added the 'K' to one reference the other day). There is one other passing reference to a "Richard Guy", in Thomas Manners.

Is it most appropriate to create the article as Richard K. Guy and add a redirect from Richard Guy? Or create only one? (Which one?) Should the other references to the name be fixed up to settle on a consistent version? He does use the initial on publications and the current uses are fairly consistent in including the initial only when referring to a publication: maybe it is appropriate to keep that distinction.

I'm slightly worried that Google also found a reference to the name in the deletion log archives (01:06, 20 Sep 2004 Ilyanep deleted "Richard Guy"). Is there any way to find back discussion or content of deleted articles? Hv 14:59, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

(1) Our policy is to use the most common name for a person. Aliases like that can be addressed by using redirect pages. (B) Only an admin can view deleted page histories. I just checked out the deleted version. It was created by an anon on Sept 20, 2004. The content of the article was:

InsertformulahereLink title

Headline text


so as you can see, it was patent nonsense. →Raul654 15:07, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

  • You should create an article under the proper name, and then if other names are often used you can create redirects from them. Elfguy 15:42, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks both, I've made it so. Going through to make sure everything links now. Hv 19:33, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Just trying to report vandalism[edit]

First of all, I tried to edit the page and could not clear the vandalism.

This website does not make it easy for a new user to try to fix any problems if they are non-typical.

On the "nu metal" page, someone should clear the vandalism.

Thank you.

To revert a vandalised page, click the History button at the top (next to Edit this page) and select the last version of the page before the vandalism (ie the one you want to revert to). Then click on Edit this page, make sure you say you're reverting vandalism in the edit summary, and then press Save. You'll get a warning saying that you are editing an old version of the page, but just say okay to that. MyNameIsClare talk 15:17, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
oops, forgot to add... when I said to "select the last version of the page", I mean click on the date stamp of the last page, rather than any of the other links MyNameIsClare talk 15:24, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

My editing won't come up[edit]

I've heavily edited the article "Der Ring des Nibelungen". As far as I can tell, I did everything right (it's my first go at editing). However, when I do a search for the article, it comes up with the version before my edit. However, when I look in the article's history, all the edits including mine are there.

Being new to this, I've probably done something stupidly and obviously wrong. What is it?



  • Sometimes the version you get is cached so it may not be the latest one. You may need to wait a few minutes and then refresh the page. If the history shows your edit is the latest and hasn't been reverted, it should show in the article itself. Elfguy 15:41, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Sometimes the problem may be your own web browser's caching. Try the Refresh button on your web browser also. Robert McClenon 23:23, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Vendor list[edit]

What are the steps to become a vendor or get on your vendor list for computer hardware and software for Wikipedia. We are a State Term Schedule, MBE/EDGE member for the state of Ohio.

We don't have one, that I know of. -- Cyrius| 17:08, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia isn't a corporation, we operate using volunteers and donated funds and hardware. See here. Elfguy 17:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Themn Songs from old radio shows[edit]

I'd like to find the names of old theme songs from the 30's and 40's. Half a dozen would do, and the shows and personalities involved. Such as, "I love to spend each hour with you. As friend to friend, I'm sorry it's through." Who was the person and what was the name of the show? Do you have such a list?

how do I change information in the article header?[edit]

I want to change the header information for:

"Pilatus Aircraft From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Pilatus Aircraft Ltd. is an aircraft manufacturer located in Stans, Switzerland. It is owned by the Oerlikon-Bührle company and employs more than 1,100 people"

because according to,

in January 2000, Oerlikon-Bührle changed its name to "Unaxis" and in December 2000 sold Pilatus to a consortium of Swiss investors

But it seems I can only edit the history section, not the header


If you click on the "edit this page" tab at the very top, you can edit the whole page. The edit tab by the history section allows you to just edit one section, which can be quite helpful for a large page. However, the lead paragraph is rarely set up as a seperate "section" like this. Shimgray 18:22, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Is Liver Disease common in Southern Italy?[edit]

My mother was born in Bari, Italy, and came to the US in 1948. She died of Non-Alcoholic Cirrhosis of the liver (NAHS)at age 75. Her mother and sister also died of NAHS, and her father died from cysts on his liver. They did not have hepatitis, and were not drinkers.

Does anyone know if Non-Alcoholic Cirrhosis and other forms of liver disease unrelated to alcoholism are common to this region of Southern Italy?

JoAnn Bowland, USA


Where can I vandalize and write ridiculous articles without admonishment where people can see it?--Anti-Anonymex2Come to my page! 17:15, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sandbox smoddy 21:34, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
This is a strange question. If that's what you want to do, then maybe it would be better appreciated over at uncyclopedia. --Dmcdevit·t 22:03, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Changing subject headings[edit]

hello! i just wrote an article on the topic of "Angus Mac Kaskill" a giant and strongman from cape breton, nova scotia. unfortunately the heading was mis-spelled as " Angus mac askill" and i am unable to change this. If you can help, i would sincerly appreciate it. I hope to contribute regularly to wikipedia, the most valuble resource i have yet found on the World Wide Web. Thank you in advance for any help or advice you can give to me on this matter! Hamster Sandwich 00:08, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

What you really want to change is the article name, and not just the heading, and that's why you can't find it to change when you edit. Up at the top there's a button next to edit that says "move". Click on that and choose the new name for the article along with a comment as to why you're changing the name. Take a look at Wikipedia:How to rename (move) a page for more guidance. --Dmcdevit·t 00:24, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
Moved and Wikified a bit. -- Cyrius| 00:28, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

using Wiki with MSN and Yahoo IM[edit]

My friend has some sort of setting in her instant messaging that allows her to view information on a specific topic, which is located in the dialogue box. She uses Trillian as her main IM service.

Is this service available to Yahoo or MSN users? Please provide any information.

Thank you.

  • Questions like these are better sent to the Reference desk at WP:RD. - Mgm|(talk) 08:08, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

How Long Should We Assume Good Faith?[edit]

Certain internet ne'er-do-wells have been going around and systematically removing and deleting content they don't agree with, or attempting to add misinformation to articles for "entertainment" purposes. While it isn't outright vandalism, it does go against the spirit of Wikipedia. I would be interested in any guidance on what protocols, if any, are in place to prevent this. —Xydexx 02:08, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

If you think edits aren't in good faith, you could start an RfC to gather community input. -- Essjay · Talk 02:50, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
Also, for more discussion of this and other "good faith" questions, there's always Wikipedia talk:Assume good faith. Friday 02:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Re-register for German Wikipedia[edit]

I corrected a date on the English Wikipedia and left a long explanation on the discussion page. No one has objected or commented. So I want to fix the same problem on the German Wikipedia, a language I can more or less follow. When I previewed the change it showed numbers as if I weren't registered. I tried re-registering on the German Wikipedia, but it said (in German) that my user name didn't exist. Should I re-register as a new user? Art LaPella 04:31, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

You currently must create a new account on every Wikimedia project you wish to be logged in on. This limitation is being worked on. -- Cyrius| 04:37, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikiproject Template[edit]

Some of us are getting a project started on Jouranlism. See -- Wikipedia:WikiProject_Journalism. It's advised in best practices to create a template to place on talk pages of relevant articles for advertising the project and getting more editors involved with it. Thing is, I can't figure out how to do this. I tried to use the "generic project template" and placed it on a page, but it duplicated almost all of the contents of the project page on the talk page where I tested it out, so I removed it. I'm still stuck on this and it seems the template articles themselves are kind of screwed up in tems of redirects -- or maybe it's just me. Any help on getting a template going would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Calicocat 05:58, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Library of Congress / Dewey / Colon Classification Code Usage[edit]

What is WikiPedia's policy regarding using Library of Congress Classification Codes, Dewey Codes or Colon Classification Codes? What is the policy re listing BT, NT, RT for Broader, Narrower and Related Terms as an alternative to "See also"?--merosonox 03:10, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Keep up the good work[edit]

Wikipedia is great. I have been hearing all of this talk in the news about a Politician named Karl Rove. I came here and found all the background info (UNBIASED and please keep it that way) which is really great to get a foundation on what all the talk is about. Keep up the good work of monitoring postings and please don't become biased with political views.

Al Hadaf magazine archives[edit]

I am trying to locate old issues of the Al Hadaf magazine: The official magazine of the PFLP. Where can I find archives? Thanks, Anon.

Template Troubles[edit]

Wow, in all my edits, this is my first post here; I've answered plenty of questions, now it's time for one of my own. I have a problem with templates, or more accurately, user subspace templates like {{User:Essjay/Welcome}} . I used to have a to-do list that was based on the {{todo}} template, but I stopped using it because I hate the color of the background (ugh, tangerine).

Anyhow, I tried to use the same basic format for a userspace template {{Essjay/todo}} and it worked, the list was included, but it didn't update unless I edited both pages. For example, if I wanted to add an entry to the list, I would have to go to User talk:Essjay/to do and change the list (the same way it works for Template:todo) but I'd also have to go to User:Essjay/to do and make some silly change so that I could resubmit and get the transclusion to update. Any idea why it wouldn't automatically change? The template-namespace ones automatically update, but mine won't! (And yes, I repeatedly cleared the browser cache.) -- Essjay · Talk 10:07, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

The trouble is the difference between the template namespace and other namespaces with respect to transclusion. When a template is changed, all the other pages that link to it automatically have their server caches (as opposed to browser cache) purged. With other namespaces, you need to purge the server cache manually. This is most easily done by clicking edit and changing the "edit" in the URL to "purge". This would result in -- this would update the page. Perhaps a link at the top of the page to purge it would be appropriate. smoddy 11:13, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

It worked! You're amazing! -- Essjay · Talk 11:51, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Source for Images[edit]

I'm pretty new around here, and see a big opportuntiy to improve the overall quality and enjoyability of wikipedia by adding photos or pictures to articles. Like the article on Joseph_C._Wilson, for example. He's been in the news every day for at least a month, and in the news regularly for 2 years. He's a major figure at the center of a huge story. And we have no picture of him. Same is true of lots of articles; a simple photo would go a long way to improve.

So, exactly how does one go about finding public domain images that can be inserted into articles?

You can start at Wikipedia:Public domain image resources. Good luck, and make sure to read Wikipedia:Image use policy. -- Essjay · Talk 10:37, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
Well, you could find out where he lives, go there, hang around until you see him, take a picture, and put it in the public domain... Bear in mind that in looking for a "public domain picture" you're asking someone to have done that for you. Notinasnaid 09:21, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Thank you Essjay, I didn't know that resource was available. Noinasnaid, I don't understand what you are saying in your 2nd sentence. -asx- 17:17, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I guess what I'm doing is challenging the assumption that somewhere, there must be a public domain photo of something, especially something in the news. Freelance photographers may have spent thousands of dollars to get a shot of a newsworthy person or event (in travel and unpaid time waiting around). Who will give their photo away? Would you spend thosuands of dollars to get that picture and give it away? Notinasnaid 17:30, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Donation link does not work.[edit]

How do you tell someone this?

This is a pretty good way to start. However, it seems to be working to me. Could you be more specific in describing how it is not working? -- Cyrius| 16:37, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

What should be done about this article?[edit]

I was hitting random articles and came across Ramon_Ayala. As you can see, it's hardly a decent article, but I don't know enough to expand upon the topic. I added {{cleanup}} and {{music-stub}}, but is there anything else that could/should be done? Fallstorm 04:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Sometimes you just gotta do what you can. -- Cyrius| 05:32, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

mauren o'hara artilce[edit]

I think I saw a error on the page which is a web link going to the wrong page.

rio grande 1950 is a movie she did but the link goes to the river instead of the movie.

On John Wayne's article it goes to the movie.

I didn't know how to fix it or wasn't sure if the author wanted it to be that way.

Thanks, I just fixed it. Of course, in the future when you feel that a change is needed to an article, it would be best to go ahead and make it yourself. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone is able to edit an article by following the Edit this page link. You do not even need to log in, although there are some reasons why you might like to. Wikipedia convention is to be bold. You do not need to be afraid of making mistakes. If you are not sure how editing works, have a look at How to edit a page, or try out the Sandbox to test your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. --Dmcdevit·t 08:18, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

battery operated vaccum cleaners for maintaining aircrafts[edit]

We are a facilities management organisation based in mumbai, India. We are looking out for manufacturers who produces high power battery operated vaccum cleaners for maintaining aircrafts.

Upon browsing the net we have coma across your profile and understand that you are manufacturing the above. If you are in a position to offer us high power battery operated vaccum cleaners for maintenance of aircrafts please revert us back at along with all the details and rates. i.e. ex- mumbai.

Thanking you, yours truly, J.S. KAHAAN

Dear Mr Kahaan, I think you have found some misleading information on the internet. Could you let us know what profile you have found, that seems to say Wikipedia are a manufacturer of vacuum cleaners? If you can let us know, someone might be in a position to correct the error. Notinasnaid 09:19, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Or maybe you could send us ten million dollars and we will see what we can come up with... alteripse 17:42, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

This is even worse than the ones who want to know how to get into our graduate program. -- Cyrius| 18:56, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Most aircraft that are large enough to require vacuum cleaners have their own 110v power supply. Batteries are probably not necessary. I suggest you revise your business plan. DJ Clayworth 16:08, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

special character entries[edit]

hi ,

livin in this day and age of computers and trying to enter a new article into wikipedia i am struggling a lil.

problem is, i'd like to see few articles in here covering the meaning of different combinations of special characters which, afterall are used largely today for purposes such as using emotes when sending texts or in messenger services. so i was thinkin of tryin to add few articles explainin what ;) or :'( or even :P meant, cos i rememebr i had no clue few months ago... but heres where the problem kicks in, when i go to add a new entry in wikipedia, it only offers alphabetical enteries, unless im mistaken (i might be, have a habit of

so ne clues how i can stick in special character articles?

Were you thinking of something like this? -- Essjay · Talk 17:06, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
Or perhaps the request is asking about how to create articles like -) (which redirects to Emoticon)? If the latter, there are a few characters that cannot be used in article names see Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(technical_restrictions). Other than these, you can create an article with non-alphabetic characters in the title just as you would any other article. -- Rick Block (talk) 17:27, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

find out why people are declared dead when the brain stop functioning even when the heart still beating[edit]

I am moving this to the Reference desk. alteripse 17:42, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Instructions for disambiguation links[edit]

Where are the complete instructions on how to create the various sorts of disambiguation links?

I see that there appear to be two types of disambiguation. In the first, the primary link is to a disambiguation page. In the second, an article page contains disambiguation links.

The specific problem is that there was a reference to a book by John Cornwell, whose name was bracketed to provide a link. However, the link was to a different John Cornwell. The two John Cornwells are a contemporary writer on the Catholic Church, and a hero of the First World War. My preference would be to have the primary link be to a disambiguation page. Where do I find the instructions?

Robert McClenon 20:28, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

You might want to check out the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). Unfortunately, it looks like it may be somewhat out of date; I'm pretty sure I've seen other dab templates in use, though I can't seem to recall them. —HorsePunchKid 20:37, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Television show from the 80's or 90's[edit]

I am looking for any information that you may have regarding a television show in either the late 1980's or the early 1990's about a judge whose family was murdered and he tries to find the killers by day and is a judge on the bench at night. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.-- 20:43, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

"For questions on factual topics (eg. Who is the pope?) see Wikipedia:Reference desk."
Could it be Dark Justice (1991)[3]? Bovlb 21:24:20, 2005-07-17 (UTC)


(1)history of supercompter from 1943 to 2005 (2)effect of computing technology in nigeria (3)defination of settlement hierachy and is clasification

A "please" in there somewhere would be nice! - Adrian Pingstone 21:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
What do you mean please?! This is your job, isn't it? :) I also didn't see a question, but in any case, this belongs at the Wikipedia:Reference desk, not here. --Dmcdevit·t 21:15, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
(1) there is a time line of super computers from 1920 to present day. "fluid definition" is an understatment.
(2) Have you heard of the Nigerian Scam? That is now the biggest crine in that country.

AlMac 07:19, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

How do I become "unicode compliant"?[edit]

I came to Wikipedia earlier this year and did a lot of work, mostly on Hong Kong cinema topics. I've been away for a few months, busy with other stuff, and apparently a major software upgrade that I little understand happened in that time. When I now click on "Edit this page," I get a "WARNING: Your browser is not unicode compliant, please change it before editing an article." What does this mean, what are its implications for my ability to contribute, and how do I become compliant? I'm running Internet Explorer 5.1 on an iMac. No snide Mac comments, please! ;)

(The following may or may not shed light: When I first came here post-upgrade, earlier in the week, I was having hideous problems navigating Wikipedia and every time I went to a new page I would get a box popping up that read, I think, "Internet Explorer Script Alert: Handler Could Not Be Removed." This was just during one evening, though, and it mysteriously cleared up since then.)

Sorry to be another clueless/needy non-tech-head, but researching and writing are the strengths I'm bringing here, definitely not tech knowledge. I've tried some googling and haven't found much of help on unicode or related topics. Thanks!

Michael Wells 21:54, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

No snide Mac comments (I worship them), but I will make a snide IE comment. IE is crap. If you have the option, install the latest version of Mozilla Firefox [], which will be fully standards-compliant. If you don't, you can muck things up somewhat since a software upgrade a few weeks ago. Cheers, smoddy 21:56, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
I believe the consensus (last time this question was asked) was that IE for mac was an essentially abandoned product, which isn't capable of proper unicode support and for which no usable upgrade is available. I think the best thing to do is to switch to using Safari (web browser), Mozilla Firefox, Camino, or Opera (web browser). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:57, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
Beat me to the snide IE comment! Once you use tabs, you'll never go back. I like Netscape, but there's really not that much of a difference as long as you escape from IE. This may shed some light on the handler problem , but that was fixed, and probably doesn't have anything to do with the unicode problem. Try a new browser and see what happens. --Dmcdevit·t 22:05, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
This is a snide Mac comment (sorry, it's unavoidable). IE for Mac may be crap, but IE for "Mic" sure isn't. Jarlaxle 22:03, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
Heretic. smoddy 22:10, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
It might be worth pointing out what this message really means. It means that editing an article in a browser that isn't Unicode compliant can damage any characters in it that aren't part of ASCII. That would include, for example, the potential to damage any accented characters. Because these could be in a part of the article you aren't even looking at, it would be best to avoid using a browser like this, as you also might not be able to see what is there to be damaged. Notinasnaid 10:41, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Would it not be worth linking to an article on unicode compliant internet browsers or alternatives to Internet Explorer so that those seeing the message know where to find a suitable alternative? Thryduulf 11:11, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be better to add unicode compliance (and foreign-font, RL support, etc.) information to comparison of web browsers. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 11:16, July 18, 2005 (UTC) copycats?[edit]

Does Wikipedia allow to just copy-paste articles? I just noticed an article that is word-for-word copied there.

As long as they give proper attribution under the GFDL, yes, they can reprint it word for word. There are a lot of sites out there that are just word-for-word copies of Wikipedia articles. -- Essjay · Talk 22:40, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
It's a very common practice across the web. Take a look at Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks if you're interested to learn more. --Dmcdevit·t 22:42, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
(after 2 edit conflicts) Yes. Wikipedia is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License, which means that it can be reused and modified, under certain conditions. is one of the best websites around at fulfilling the requirements. See also Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. Cheers, smoddy 22:43, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Wild Chamomile[edit]

This is the Help Desk. Your question has been moved the Wikipedia:Reference desk. Please see Wikipedia:Reference_desk#Wild_Chamomile.Asbestos | Talk 23:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Tony Blair's picture[edit]

Has someone changed the photo in the article entitiled "Tony Blair"? I wonder what else has been sabotaged?

You didn't date stamp your question, so it's hard to say. The article looks fine - had some vandalism late last week which was quickly repaired by Rhobite, but nothing else to report. The image hasn't been changed for a while. Manning 02:59, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
Actually the lead image itself was vandalized today, another image uploaded in its place. It was reverted in 13 minutes, nothing to worry about. --Dmcdevit·t 03:23, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Problem uploading images[edit]

I created the article and wanted to upload some images for it, but when I click the "upload file" link, it asks me to login, and my BrickWiki login doesn't work. How do I upload the images?

This isn't BrickWiki (whatever that is). You'll need to make an account here. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:59, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
Oh, I see, you want to add pictures to some other wiki. We don't run BrickWiki, so you'll need to go ask them how to fix problems there. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:01, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

ROM the SpaceKnight[edit]

Your article on ROM the spaceknight doesn't credit the person who created it. No offense taken.

Here's the URL to verify the info.


Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel that a change is needed to an article, it would be best to go ahead and make it yourself. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone is able to edit an article by following the Edit this page link. You do not even need to log in, although there are some reasons why you might like to. Wikipedia convention is to be bold. You do not need to be afraid of making mistakes. If you are not sure how editing works, have a look at How to edit a page, or try out the Sandbox to test your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. --Dmcdevit·t 03:42, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Infobox template, do we have one for models?[edit]

I tried searching the Template namespace for this but search isn't working again. So what I'm looking for is a template for a biography infobox, if we have one that is. I was thinking of something similar to the infobox used for Jenny McCarthy or Karen McDougal but without the Playmate references. It would be for use on the articles for the likes of Cindy Crawford or Kate Moss. So do we have something like that? Or should I go ahead and make one? Thanks, Dismas 04:12, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

There's the standard ones, (like Template:Infobox Biography/Template:Infobox Biography Living Person), but I don't think there's a specific model one. At least I don't think. --Dmcdevit·t 05:49, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Templates & tables[edit]

I'm creating an article in one of the wikicity projects, but I presume the language is the same everywhere. When I copy and paste a table from another article, intending to edit the data, all I get is a link that says Template:(whateverthetemplatenameis). When I click on the link it's a blank article/create a page. When I edit the existing page, all the data I entered is still there, but when viewed it just says "Template". How do I make this stop and get the damn table to appear? Cprhodesact 05:31, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm having the same problem. I wish I had an answer, too. Calicocat 16:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Could it be that the page you are copying from uses a template to format the table? Have you tried editing the source page and see what is in the wiki code? DES 16:46, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Can't make that work. All I ever get is Template:(whatever). I just want the table - I don't want a template. Cprhodesact 22:42, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


About a month ago, in the “Squatting” discussion page, I suggested that a distinction be made between squatting (1) as the act of initially settling on Crown land without permission, as in the Australian pastoral expansion or the westward movement in the USA in the nineteenth century, and (2) the more modern, principally urban act, of occupying a building without any right or title. I argued that the motivation and methods of these two processes are fundamentally different, and the use of the same term muddies this distinction. So, I asked, could we disambiguate between, say, "Squatting (pastoral)" and "Squatting (urban)". The pastoral/historical form of squatting in Australia is a topic I have some interest in and knowledge of, and would like to make some contribution. The urban/social form is not within my sphere of interest/knowledge, and I’m happy for others to develop it further. Two questions: 1. Am I within my rights in unilaterally deciding to separate the topic, or is there some protocol to go through? 2. If the topics are separated, what is the most appropriate way of doing it? I don’t want to break any rules, or offend anyone, but I would like to see the topics differentiated, so that both can be improved in their own right. What do people think? MulgaBill 07:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

1. Yes, Be Bold! and 2. See Wikipedia:Disambiguation, looks like a type 2, meaning two equally notable articles. Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages) for specific formatting of disambigs. --Dmcdevit·t 07:15, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
  • I think you will find that the "more modern, principally urban act" of occping private property without the owners permission is actually the older usage, adn goes back in english law before the settlement of either Austrialia or the Americas, and applies to both buildings and undeveloped land. Thjis I think that your distinction is incorrect and should not be made. There may be a distinction to be made between squatting on public and private property. Note that "homesteading" in the US westward expansion was not considered squattign -- it was a procedure created by statute where a person family could occupy unclaimed public land of a certian size, and if they lived on it and developed it to a specified standard within a specified time would be granted title, and in the mean time had legal rights to occupy the land. DES 07:45, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • You are within your rights to edit the topic and separate the meanings, but be sure to first verify your facts, and cite sources, otherwise someone may revert your changes. DES 07:45, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Article submitted but not appearing[edit]

Hello I submitted an article 3 days ago, but it did, or has not yet appeared. The article/information is on HMS Whitshed... Do I need to do something to get it added/accepted..? I have an account on Wikipedia.. Many thanks for your help ---Alan3baker 09:24, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I can find it here: HMS Whitshed (D77). Perhaps you forgot the full name? Remember, Wikipedia is case-sensitive, too. And btw, there is no process for gatting work "accepted," this is a wiki. If you still can't see it, try clearing your cache. --Dmcdevit·t 09:37, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
He was probably looking under HMS Whitshed, which had no redirect. The history is rather disturbing; "rewrite to avoid copyvio". Why was the original material taken from another web site? -- Cyrius| 09:42, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Weird - I just rewrote that. is a good source, especially for things like obscure vessels. It was added by an anon., so I failed to connect it with the user above... and figured a quick rewrite was simpler than delete and recreate, since it was mostly easily convertible factual data. Shimgray 10:17, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

google and wikipedia[edit]

When a new article is placed on wikipedia has anyone any idea (ballpark figure) how long it takes for this article to be picked up by google? Assuming that this article is linked to by wikipedia articles alreay in the google database. On a related aside - how often does google scan wikipedia? - I would hope very often given how dynamic and regularly changing wikipedia is.

I'm not sure, but from a quick search, I have a feeling the frequency, or relative up-to-datedness varies by article. When I check Googles cache of cetain articles, spearmint is from "Jul 12, 2005 13:04:37 GMT," George H. W. Bush is older, from "Jul 9, 2005 05:24:16 GMT," while George W. Bush is from yesterday, "Jul 17, 2005 05:37:28 GMT." All in all, they're all relatively recent. I would assume that when Google caches WP's pages its picking up the new ones too (though I'm only assuming). Of course, most people don't just view Google's cache. So even if it is out of date on existing articles, they'll just click through to Wikipedia itself and see the newest version. --Dmcdevit·t 10:04, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
I can't answer the question but just for fun I googled an article I contributed to Wikipedia - Margaret Dawson - and found it on the following sites (as well as Wikipedia):,, (what does a convict have to do with astronomy!!), and Are these mirror sites or what? MulgaBill 10:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Yup. Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks has a (mostly) complete list. Shimgray 12:01, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Actually it's nowhere near complete and mostly out of date because there doesn't seem to be anyone working on it, and most of the noncompliant mirrors don't bother to give contact information for some reason. --Dmcdevit·t 21:05, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
Really? Ah, well. I hadn't had reason to go looking through it for quite a while, which may well have been back when it was maintained. Has a fair number, though; indicative of the sort of places our stuff ends up. Shimgray 21:11, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

wikipedia credibility[edit]

How wikipedia guarantees it's information is credible at any moment? Giving biased information or incorrect ones may take time to be corrected in future by wikipedians (if they read the matter and be expert about that matter), so for that period of time someone unfamiliar with that topic may read the article and acquire wrong or biased information.

Of course, it can't guarantee anything at all. And everyone using the internet or any other resource should be encouraged to have a sceptical attitute to any information they find anywhere., from a random internet search to the most handsomely bound book; explaning clearly how Wikipedia works to people who use it could be a key part of this. But see Wikipedia:Common objections. Notinasnaid 10:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Basically, we don't and can't. There's an overwhelming likelihood that what you read at any moment is correct, and we strive to make sure incorrect or dubious material is corrected or removed at short notice, but we're only human - and the very nature of the system means that material has to be public before we can correct it. Wikipedia:General disclaimer, which is linked as "Disclaimers" from the bottom of every page, is pretty emphatic about this - WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY is put at the top, rather emphatically. You might find that page interesting to answer your questions, though it's fairly dry and legal.
That said, it is worth emphasising that what we have is generally reliable - and it's a good idea to take anything published on the web with a pinch of salt. Shimgray 10:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Suggested reading: Wikipedia:Replies_to_common_objections#Wikipedia_can_never_be_high_quality. There's some good food for thought there. --Dmcdevit·t 10:26, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

English Pronounciation Symbols[edit]

Is it possible to add English pronounciation symbols to a definition? I am looking to define a word - with associated pronounciation. I have tried the unicode characters consistent with the IPA's definition and wikipedia does not appear to support them (i get a null character empty box)


  • Are you sure you're browser is fully unicode supporting? While I can read a lot of them, some of the characters don't show up for me. Also, pronounciation and word definition is probably better aimed at Wiktionary. - Mgm|(talk) 12:55, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Hoodia Gordonii entry has a link to commercial site[edit]

Is this your policy? If it is I have a few sites that I would like cross referenced at the bottom of the page too.

See Wikipedia:External links. Adding unrelated commercial links to articles is considered vandalism and will be removed; repeated violations can result in a block against the editor responsible for adding the link. Exceptions are made where the site is particularly relevant, such as linking to eBay's website from the eBay article, or to IBM's website from the IBM article. In general, however, do not link to a commercial site unless it falls under one of the "do" criteria of the External links policy. The link in Hoodia Gordonii seems to be to modblog, and I'm not familiar enough with modblog to know whether it's a good link or not. -- Essjay · Talk 12:52, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
Short answer: no, it's not. In the article on Hoodia, the link was spam, and I've removed it. Lupo 12:56, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

How often do Wikistats update?[edit]

Wikistats used to update every couple of weeks or so, but now I haven't seen an update in over two months. Is this something that a human must update, or is it something that should automagically update, but is broken? It's not clear from the page. Thanks! --Yekrats 13:54, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

from the comments at the very bottom of the page, it looks like something that needs to be updated by a human from the latest SQL dumps. I don't know how to do this however. Thryduulf 14:39, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Think only admins can do database queries. Elfguy 15:42, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • The special page to do this isn't in the list anymore. You can either ask someone at meta, or do it from a very recent database dump. - Mgm|(talk) 19:45, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

short cut to block log[edit] is what I've been using, in a template I'm creating. But isn't there a shortcut like Special:blocklog/user=Gumby for this? Uncle Ed 14:27, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

changing wiki name[edit]

is there any way that i can change my account name without creating an entirely new account ? Sr. Metro 15:16, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

No, sorry. There used to be a way but it was abandoned. Howabout1 Talk to me!

  • You can, of course, create a new account, and place a note on each account pointing to the other, or include 'formerly known as" in your new sig. DES 15:34, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm under the impression that Wikipedia:Changing username is still going; it looks like requests were being filled less than a week ago. Reassigning anon edits is no longer done, but I'm pretty sure username changes are. -- Essjay · Talk 17:09, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Incorrect link[edit]

Gentlemen, Under "Gilmore Girls"....the actor Scott Patterson has a link to another Scott Patterson who was a Canadian and no longer living.

Although the spelling is the same.....this is NOT the actor currently playing the part of Luke.

Thank you.

Thank you, I have fixed it. Howabout1 Talk to me! 16:27, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Person search[edit]

Need to contact Melody Whittle (maiden name). Her father, Belmont Whittle and my uncle, Leroy Whittle were brothers. They owned Whittle furniture in Palmetto, FL. Melody worked either for the Bradenton Police Office or the Bradenton Sheriff's Office. She moved to Jacksonville area years ago and her parents later went to live with her. I assume she is working in city or county law enforcement. My email is My phone # is 864-683-2022.

Thank you, Harry Sandlin

  • WTF does this look like the ads section in a paper? What's wrong with these people. Elfguy 16:57, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Calm down Elfguy, I feel the same way, but don't take it out on him. Just add someting at the top. Howabout1 Talk to me! 17:00, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
    • We could have a full page red blinking warning and we'd still get off topic entries. There is no salvation :P Elfguy 17:06, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Is there an email notify for updated pages?[edit]

Is there a place in preferences to set a request for a notification email to be sent when a discussion page is updated? Thanks.

I don't think so; if there was, some of us with hundreds of pages on the watchlist would need separate email accounts just for that! -- Essjay · Talk 17:32, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

suggesting a change in an article to the original author[edit]

Dear Wikipedia:

I was reading the article on "morphogenetic field" and I was very happy with the high quality of the writing, but I wanted to suggest an improvement - I don't want to edit the article, I would like to suggest to the author of the article that a particular topic might be mentioned.

How can I get in touch with the author of this article to make my suggestion?

thanks, Bruce Gould Chicago

  • You should use the article talk page to suggest improvements. You can look in the history to see who contributed what and talk to them on their own talk page. Elfguy 17:54, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • You can find the history section of the article here. The initial author appears to be anonymous, but you can contact any of the other editors by clicking on their name and then click on the link discussion at the top of their userpage. Alternatively, you could head over to Talk:Morphogenetic field and make your suggestions there. - Mgm|(talk) 19:50, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

How to add your own Alphabetical Index ???[edit]

Does anyone know how to implement an alphabetical index for one's own mediawiki like the one here:

Don't spam your questions. -- Cyrius| 18:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I didn't come across it anywhere else. I suggest you ask a developer or check the mediawiki documentation which I believe resides on the meta wiki. - Mgm|(talk) 08:29, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

I want to help![edit]

My speed on the keyboard is around 100 words per minute. I wonder if there is any work that involves typing, that I may be entrusted to do, since I can spare some time doing something worthwhile and noble. I firmly believe that 'Knowledge is ennobling' to quote one great philosopher.

Thanks, Look forward to a reply. Aziz

RSS Feed[edit]

Does Wikipedia have any rss feeds? Thanks.

A couple. See Wikipedia:Syndication. Shimgray 18:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

USB drive[edit]

Dear, Will you please tell me the difference b/w simple usb flash drive and Micro Vault USB 2.0 Flash Drive Memory Stick.(Advantage and disadvantage) Thank you aamir mir

Using other scripts in English Wikipedia[edit]

How do you use other scripts besides the common Roman Script to put on an aritcle? For example in the artice Mahabharata, Devanagri Script is used in the first sentence to show the word in Sanskrit.

A unicode-capable browser and a way to get the desired characters into it is all that is necessary. -- Cyrius| 19:52, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Colored Links[edit]

Hi there fellow Wikipedians!

I was wondering if it's possible to color a link. I know how to color normal text like so, but no matter how I experiment, I can't get links like this to be any color other than the default blue or red. Is this changeable? If so, how?

Thanks a lot!


  • Yes, it is. By adapting the CSS settings for the skin you are using. The page where you can find more about changing it evades me at the moment, but I think you should do it at User:Hinotori/myskin.css. - Mgm|(talk) 23:07, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
    • Hrrmmm. Not sure if it was intentional, but the link you gave me leads to editting a blank page. I think, in any case, you're talking about skins which are only visible by the user who "changed" the color. I was curious as to how to edit the color of link so it appears that way for everyone else to see (as in my white on black text above). Hinotori
[[Magic|<span style="color: white; background: black">Yes, it is.</span>]]

A number of people use this to color their signatures, one of my favorite being Starblind (See this example) -- Plutor 18:57, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Thank you so much! You are a king among men. May I please have your babies? Hinotori

Burial at sea during peacetime aboard the U.S.S. Power DD-839[edit]

Hello. I was a pall bearer for a retired Chief Petty Officer. I was a sailor stationed on the ship at the time.We were stationed in Mayport Florida 1959 through around 1962. During this time period we performed this special deed. However, I am having difficulty getting any information. I would like to have this information for my family. I have been on other sites and can not seem to find any records. Can you folks help me. Thank you, Jack.

insert ndash not working with new software[edit]

Since Wiki got the new software 2 or 3 weeks ago, when I'm editing and go down to "insert" and pick what used to be an ndash, it inserts a regular dash (–) not ndash (–), or at least it no longer shows "ndash" in the edit window. Does it insert ndash but just not show it in the text, or is it not working? Bubba73 22:07, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any difference between the two. Why make things more complicated than they are? - Mgm|(talk) 23:08, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
    • Oh no, you've invoked the wrath of typographers. Everybody run! -- Cyrius| 00:07, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
    • They look the same to me too in the edit window. I started out using "-" on the keyboard, and people changed a lot of them to ndash. Then I started using the "insert" and picking the dash, which showed up as ndash. But with the new version of the software, it seems to insert the same thing as the keyboard in the edit window. But they are different in HTML "-", versus "–". [[4]] Bubba73 02:59, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Removing posts by others[edit]

What is the Wikipedia policy regarding this, I can't find it or even a link to it on the Civility page or other policies that I thought might relate to it. Thank you. --AI 02:38, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

You may be thinking of Wikipedia:Remove personal attacks (which is not policy per se). There is also some relavant info about civility here. Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines is also helpful. --Dmcdevit·t 03:25, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
It also depends on the context. Unsourced edits are often removed by other editors, particularly if they make a claim that is generally unkown or unsupported by existing evidence. Vandalism to articles is routinely removed. Posts that are made in the wrong place, i.e. questions placed in articles, would be quickly removed. Links to commercial sites or that do not seem appropriate are frequently removed. Posts to user's talk pages may be deleted (unpreferred method) or archived (preferred method) by the user who "owns" the talk page. If you have specific examples you're concerned about, feel free to leave me a note on my talk page and I'd be happy to look over them and get back to you. -- Essjay · Talk 19:27, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Attaching Photo[edit]

Kentuckay 03:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)Am a new user, and need some advice on how to attach a photo of a mural I painted. Was painted to encourage and inspire. Thanks for any assistance given.--Kentuckay 03:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Click on the Upload file link on the left to upload it. Don't forget to mention the license (such as public domain or GPL) under which it is released in the description. Then just use the image tag to add it to an article. Elfguy 03:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Changing article's IP address to a user name?[edit]


I've contributed several articles here logged in under my account, but there are some articles & edits I contributed without logging in (inadvertently). Is there any way to change articles/edits that I've made without logging on (which show an IP address as the author), to show that they were created/edited under my user name (under the history tab)? All the articles I wrote without logging in all have the same IP address, since the internet connection I used to make these edits has a static IP address, AFAIK...

misternuvistor 03:21, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Changing attribution for an edit. Short answer: No, as far as I can see. —HorsePunchKid 03:27, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Template center align[edit]

I'm very frustrated after trying for a long time to just get a picture centered. This should be very simple, but I can't do it.

I'm trying to edit this page Template:Bahá'í, to get the picture aligned in the center. Later I'll edit the picture to make it transparent, but right now it won't align center.

I want it to look like this page: Template:Christianity

Cunado19 04:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I think I may have fixed it for you, take a look and see if it's what you wanted. Dismas 04:32, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

You fixed it. But I swear I tried that several times already. Oh well, it's good now. Cunado19 04:38, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. Dismas 08:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


Long rambling question below - sorry...all teh details! - but the last paragraph sums it up.

I'll start by saying I'm not very saavy (obviously) at maneuvering through WIkipedia... And I really did spend a bunch of time trying to get to the answer I am looking for. It is a reflection on my left brain (or is that right brain) failure in these kinds of things.

So - A long time ago - when I first entered cyberspace and was exploring - I searched Wikipedia for "mail art" because this was a movement I had been very seriously and deeply involved in for years.

To try to make this long story short - I was please that my name was listed in a column with others I had corresponded with. Some had short biographies, some didn't. I jumped in and filled out the page

So be it if the consensus is that my listing should not be there - that it was written in too self-promotional a language - I can live with that... - although I know others listed there who have written their own bios (Mark Bloch) - and many included who did not have a very "high profile" (BuBu). But anyway...

It is disconcerting to see how my communications were misunderstood - and that this is how it lives on the internet - and that my lack of skills around this project has ended up with this.


Other than by some strange mistake I would never have " used at least four different user IDs" to publish things about myself!!!

So how can I resolve this - clarify things so that people seraching my name are not confronted with this - which not only removed me from a location where I do feel my brief profile can tightfully exist (as I said - I did not put my name there in the first place) because of the way I worded the profile, but has left this negative unfinished stuff all over the web... like even "wapipedia"...

Hope you can help.


Alex Hirka (ala Alex Torridzone Igloo)

If it's the vfd discussion you're worried about, it can't and won't be changed. The record speaks for itself, and anyone reading through it will come to their own decision. But I highly doubt any google searchers are likely to find that page, and if they do, they are even less likely to know what it is talking about or understand its meaning. I'm not exactly clear on what you want to be done, but if you seriously think you have a case in keeping an article you could thake it to Votes for undeletion and make your case. I'll warn you though, you should read through Wikipedia:Autobiography, as this was probably a major reason your article was deleted. It may be telling that no independent person ever created an article on you, either before you did or after yours was deleted... --Dmcdevit·t 06:56, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Place ment[edit]

list of placements in College of Engineering, Guindy

  • Please read the instructions at the top of this page first. - Mgm|(talk) 08:19, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

what is meant by a P-code[edit]

Depends on the context. See P-code. You're welcome. Lupo 09:32, July 19, 2005 (UTC)


In the Hurricane Emily article, I'm trying to fix the Wikinews link near the middle (in Impact) so that it's shorter, but still leads to the same news article. I've tried using raw HTML, combos of different code, and other things.

In other words, I still want the box with "Wikinews has a related story: (link)", but the current link is too long and looks bad. Is there ANY way I can make that news link like I would a normal Wikipedia link, so it can be shorter?

I want: Hurricane_Emily_is_second_strike_for_Jamaica

To become: Emily_2nd_strike_for_Jamaica

Or something. But, I still want the box indicating the wikinews.

Hope that made sense ^^;;

  • I think that would require moving the article on wikinews to a new title and then update the link accordingly. As it's in a template you can't use piped links or anything else. - Mgm|(talk) 11:03, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
  • BTW, remember that the size of the title is a result of different naming conventions on wikinews. Maybe putting it in a different spot in the article helps as well.
  • Update:Solved. The title was shown on one line because it had underscores in its title instead of spaces. Once I removed those it looked much better. - Mgm|(talk) 15:06, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

I'm being bullied[edit]

Someone put this on my talk page.

Please stop adding GIANT KILLER MUSHROOMS to Wikipedophelia. It is considered vandalism. If you DO NOT want to experiment, please DO NOT use the sandbox. You're Welcome Biatch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Wikipedia is so friendly why are you lot so horrible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 12:44, 19 July 2005

Well, first, you don't have a Talk page, as you haven't opened an account; you'll have a (probably different) IP-address Talk page each time you edit, often shared by other Users.
Secondly, the Talk page of the address from which you were editing when you left the above message has no such message. Either you've changed addresses since then, or you're trying to have us on.
Thirdly, even if it's the former, your message doesn't really make sense; how could the action of one person be correctly described as "you lot"? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:54, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
The word "vandalism" above actually links to the fungus article, checking the what links here from that page I see that only one ip's talk page has a link to that article. This was left in April 2004 in an un-obfuscated link regarding a user who had been editing that page. So my guess is this is not a good faith post. Thryduulf 16:00, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Amy Dumas[edit]

Is there any need to use such terms as 'slut' and 'whore' on the reference page refering to Amy Dumas.

This is not exactly the right thing to do but just one narrow minded persons idea of a poke at someone significantly more successful that the person posting the reference.

Please ensure that your pages are kept factual and clean of obscenity.

I've just examined the page. The comments aren't currently there; an anonymous vandal added them a week ago [5], and they were removed an hour and a half later. I'm not sure why you're not seeing the current version; perhaps a local caching issue? Regardless, the current revision is clean. Shimgray 13:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
  • As you are surely aware by reading about Wikipedia, it is an open and free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, which means anyone can put any vulgarity on an article. Vandalism is usually corrected very fast by the many thousands volunteer contributers, but it is very possible to find some. As for Amy Dumas I don't see any vulgarity, but if you find any, you can edit it yourself and revert it. Elfguy 13:21, 19 July 2005 (UTC).

Links being removed from page[edit]

I have put a link on pages which are related to the article, but the link is being removed constantly. Is there anything that can be done about this ?

  • Talk about it on the article talk page. Be advised that if they are advertisement links they are not permitted and will be removed. Elfguy 16:09, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I guess this is LBC. The "History" link will show you the comments people made when removing your link. If you disagree, the best thing is indeed to add it to the talk page. It may also be worth noting Wikipedia:Three Revert Rule which says that if you revert your change more than 3 times in 24 hours it's breaking Wikipedia's please discuss it, rather than getting into a revert war. Notinasnaid 16:16, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Hi, Thanks for the information about the contributions (Links) being deleted I have now added a discussion on the LBC page. It seems that the links for are continually being deleted by someone. I agree with you, and others here at the help desk, that this could be seen as advertising and it should be discussed.
  • Replay Radio, however, is non commercial and is set up only for LBC listeners for selected popular LBC shows - hence the link was added to the relevant pages of the LBC presenters which are also on Wikipedia. These links, however, have also been deleted. Replay Radio actually has nothing to gain from adding the links from Wikipedia to Replay Radio as they dont sell anything, they dont even advertise ! Replay Radio covers the cost of everything and lots of people have given up a lot of their time to get Replay Radio to the stage it is at now. Replay Radio offers a free service which only adds value for people who listen to LBC. The web site is in BETA stage testing and a selected number of people are using it for testing, however, the more people who know about Replay Radio and the more people who can get involved and contribute towards it (and im sure most would agree ) is better.

Recent Changes: Viewing "N" Only[edit]

Is there a way to list only newly created pages "N" on the recent changes page? Thanks.

I don't think so, but Special:Newpages has the same effect. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 15:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Who wrote all this[edit]

who is the author of these articles or where can it be found? --Anon

  • Wikipedia is written by a large international group of volunteers called Wikipedians. You can see who contributed to particular article by clicking its history link. - Mgm|(talk) 16:43, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Forgotten Username/Password[edit]

I signed up with Wikipedia a few months ago and have since forgotten my username. Is there anyway to get this and my password sent to the email address that I registered the account with?

I know my email address (of course) and a couple possible passwords.

Thanks for the help in advance.

  • Do you remember articles you've edited or even better created? If you know about such articles, we can check their histories to see what users edited them. Unfortunately you need a username to have a new password sent to you. - 19:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Who is Kayanna Ramirez?[edit]

On the List of people whose first name is not commonly known

a Kayanna Ramirez ("Coolest Person Ever") is listed. Who is this?

A google search turns up only the wiki page.

Some kid who has been removed from the list. -- Cyrius| 18:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
  • Thank you so much for mentioning this. I believe the entry was a joke. I've removed it, as well as the other 3 hoax entries placed by the same user on the same day. Joyous (talk) 18:53, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

How do I fix a Copyright Violation on the article I created?[edit]

It has been some time since I posted the article. In the process of trying to understand how to make it look like everything I wanted it to look like, low and behold I got a copyright violation notice. All I wanted to do was fix that error and have it repost but it doesn't seem to do that. How can I just get it back in place with no problems? I really appreciate your help and response. Thank you!  :)

Do you mean that you accidentally inserted a copyvio tag, or that someone else believes the article is a copyvio and inserted the tag? If you accidentally inserted it, it's fairly easy to remove. If someone else inserted it, then you need to demonstrate that it isn't a copyvio; the best way to do this is to provide your sources on the talk page.
If you tell us what the article is, we can go look at it and try to figure out what's going on. -- Essjay · Talk 19:50, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

That is great, thank you! The article is Fullpower. I really don't know what the problem is but I think it is maybe that I created an external link to their website in the body of the article....pls take a look, any help or suggestions is appreciated!!!!  :)

Most of the article is made up of large chunks copied from elsewhere. You can't do that. -- Cyrius| 22:11, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Cyrius is quite right. The problem with both your article, and your proposed replacement is that you have taken copyright text and submitted it to Wikipedia. By doing so, you are claiming that you wrote it, or that it was freely licensed, neither of which appears to be true. Please read Wikipedia:Copyright#Contributors' rights and obligations. (Maybe the "policy" link in Template:Copyvio should point directly to this section.)
This is nothing to do with adding the external link, except in that it made the copyright violation easier to detect. You cannot return the article to its prior state.
Please help us by letting us know how this could have been made more obvious to you. Thanks, Bovlb 23:59:33, 2005-07-19 (UTC)

What process should I follow?[edit]

A couple days ago User:Broonee posted a question on the reference desk about a bridge which was really just a picture of two topless girls with the bridge somewhere in the background. He has since taken up a campaign it seems to post the picture wherever he can and demand that it's relevant to the topic of the article. See: Skybridge (Vancouver), Censorship, and Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Vancouver Skybridge.

So, I basically see him as a person with a very low level of maturity (partially because of his use of the word "Boobies" instead of "Breasts") with a computer, an internet connection, and too much free time. What I'm looking for is what I need to do to maybe have an admin step in and tell him to cool it. Or is there some other course of action that should be followed? Dismas 20:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

This user has spent his entire time vandalising articles and trolling. I've blocked him permanently; I don't know why this wasn't done days ago. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:57, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you! Dismas 21:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Question about an article[edit]

Transportation_in_Norway has been copied from the CIA factbook information on Norway without attribution. Is this a simple case of non-attribution or is this a copyvio? Fallstorm 21:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

The CIA World Factbook, as a work of the US federal government, is automatically in the public domain, and is thus available for use. I still think it should be cited, but, nevertheless, it is perfectly legal. smoddy 21:28, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Nearly all of the country articles were seeded from the factbook way back in the distant past of Wikipedia. Unfortunately, many of the sub-articles haven't progressed much further as people ignore them in favor of cramming everything into the main article. -- Cyrius| 22:12, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Should I create an article or just link to the information in another article.[edit]

Here is the situation: In the article Holidays of the United States in the section State Holidays , Vermont had a red Town Meeting Day link that did not have an article yet. I was looking for more information and somehow found an article called Town meeting which had what I needed, so I created a redirect for the Town Meeting Day link in Holidays of the United States that took the reader to the Vermont section in the article Town meeting.

Should I also create an article for Town Meeting Day? My thinking is no, this topic is likely to remain only a few sentences, and having the information in two places gives it more of a chance to get out of sync with each other. But now the section Vermont, in Town meeting also has a red Town Meeting Day link in so I’m thinking I should now edit it so it isn’t a link.

Avoid creating articles with little to no content. Redirecting is fine if that's on topic. Elfguy 22:49, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
It sounds like making a new article would indeed be unnecessary. If I understand you correctly, you're still seeing a red link for the "town meeting day" link in Holidays of the United States. I'm not, so if you see one when you should clear your cache. If you mean a redlink somewhere else, on which article? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:51, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
You can also change the place where the original link was found to use a piped link, like this: [[Town meeting|Town Meeting Day]] which will look like this: Town Meeting Day. But there is no reason to write a separate article on "Town Meeting Day" unless it would have significant content not included in and not appropriate for the existing article Town meeting.DES 22:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)