Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 August 12

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August 12[edit]

legal aspects of jallikattu[edit]

after the supreme court judgement lot of controversy is created about jallikattu. it has to be regulated not banned —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk)

I didn't know jallikattu but we have an article on it. Note that Wikipedia is not a soap box. PrimeHunter 01:00, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

find me plz[edit]

Nitafutia shule yangu tafadhali —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk)

This is the help desk for the English Wikipedia. Do you have a question in English? Maybe you would be more interested in the Swahili language Wikipedia at PrimeHunter 03:02, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Asian ideologies[edit]

-what are the different asian ideologies? 03:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Here is a Google search that lists quite a few. --Teratornis 03:35, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Your question is best suited to the reference desk, so I've moved it there and replied. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 06:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use image size[edit]

I took pictures of statues that are considered to be derivative works. Image 1, Image 2. I know they have to be low resolution in order to be considered fair use, but to what size should I resize them to? Thanks in advance. BlueAg09 (Talk) 04:30, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Seems fine to me, or at least low-res enough that there's no need to worry unless you get a specific complaint. As my personal guideline, I figure the default image thumb size is a good starting point (250px, I think). This doesn't go above that to the point I'm worried about it. Appreciate the concern, though. – Luna Santin (talk) 12:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Remove category listing from pages.[edit]

Quick question, is it possible to have these hidden on the page, like how it's possible to hide TOCs? Thanks --Lucid 05:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

If there's a way to do that, I'm not yet familiar with it, sorry. Javascript could do it, but that involves a pretty heavy change that probably wouldn't be implemented for one or two uses. Depending on what in particular you're trying to do, other workarounds may be available; any details? – Luna Santin (talk) 12:05, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Mainly, I want my user page to display without a scroll bar. With the categories at the bottom and the WM info bar, plus the infobox, that's not doable. If I could remove the category box, though, it should fit fine, and give me enough room for everything I want on my page --Lucid 02:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Link Error[edit]

On the page for The Streets album Hardest Way To Make A Easy Living, the link for the Q Magazine review goes to the Pitchfolk Media review instead. Captainkid 05:45, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

As a fan of The Steets, I've gone ahead and fixed the link; the Q (magazine) review is actually not availible online, as far as I can tell. If you're interested, you can fine it on their May 2006 issue, on p.116. --Haemo 05:58, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Nagykovácsi coordinates problem[edit]

A couple of months ago, suddenly, an error message appeared one day on this page where the coordinates were previously and successfully recorded. I had made no changes at all to the article.

The error message is this

"Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "�""

Clicking on the error message takes you to a

"Map sources/GeoHack" page (whatever that may be) with a banner at the top that reads:

"This is one of Magnus' toys. It is based on the mapsources extension by en:User:Egil. For the source of this script, see geo_param.php, geohack.php, mapsources.php, and transversemercator.php."

I've tried a number of times to fix the sudden Nagykovácsi "coordinates problem" (the article on Nagykovácsi didn't seem to have a "coordinates problem" before and I have now given up trying to fix it because as I don't know how to.) If any wise folk out there can help I would be grateful.

Artdesigns2006 06:15, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The coordinates on the Nagykovácsi article are in the {{Infobox Hungarian settlement}} template. If the error started with no changes to the article, then I would suspect a change in the template. Indeed, the template page shows the same error in the example on the template page itself. Someone must have edited the template to make it work in some other article, without checking all the backlinks to insure the other articles are using the newly-modified template correctly. For example, the Sopron article uses the same template without visible error. Comparing the wikitext of Sopron to Nagykovácsi, we see that the former uses decimal coordinates (which work now) and the latter uses Degree-Minute-Second coordinates (which do not work now). Someone must have edited {{Infobox Hungarian settlement}} so it expects decimal coordinates now, without updating either the example template in the template page itself, or all of the articles that use the template. See: Wikipedia:Obtaining geographic coordinates for tools you can use to convert all the broken DMS coordinates to decimal coordinates. Or maybe you or someone else could modify the template to accept either coordinate format. --Teratornis 19:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Teratornis, for your time and very clear explanation. With it in mind I went back to the Nagykovácsi article and changed the coordinates to decimal values.

Artdesigns2006 04:34, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Timeshare tour centers?[edit]

I am hoping that you will be able to help me. I am looking for a list of all Timeshare sales centers. Locations that a person can go on a presentation for 90 minutes. I am only looking for locations in the USA.( all locations in The USA ) Thank you for your help. 10:05, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Wiki for potentially non-encyclopedic information[edit]

Hi, I'm working on a list of native iPhone applications and would like to put this list

  • on a wiki
  • that is already regularly visited

to ensure future growth of this list. (list so far). Now I think that putting this list in wikipedia might not be the correct place, becuase it's not encyclopedic, and it's original work. I found this wiki, but it is unfortunately not regularly visited, so that's a no-go. My question: is there I place to store such original-non-encyclopedic-work, like for example a sister-project called "wiki-trivia", "wiki-data" or somesuch? None of the official sister projects fit my bill, but maybe there is something else? Thanks for your help, Peter S. 11:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You may find what you're looking for at Wikipedia:Alternative outlets or list of wikis :-). Melsaran 14:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Also try searching on WikiIndex:
I question your objection to using IPhone Wiki; you say it is not "regularly visited," but what do you expect for a wiki that focuses narrowly on a product that has not even been on the market for two months? Even if a particular wiki receives many total visits, there is no guarantee that any particular article on the wiki will get any attention. Even Wikipedia, probably the world's most-visited wiki, has thousands of neglected articles. We have 28,918,178 registered users, but even so, there is no guarantee of recruiting others to help with an arbitrary project here; some articles gets lots of attention, and some get little. If you can't find a thriving wiki for your project, I suggest you just go ahead and edit your list on IPhone Wiki and don't worry about how many views your page gets or whether anyone else helps out. If your page meets a real need, other interested people will eventually find it (because everybody knows how to google, and because wikis in general are on a growth curve). If the whole world consisted of people who limited themselves to things that were already well-established, nothing new would ever happen. Don't be afraid to innovate. Innovators often have to go it alone for a while, until they can build enough of something that works to sell their ideas to other people. --Teratornis 17:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. The iPhone Wiki is unattractive because it was created 7 months ago and the news items there are - 7 months old (many other iPhone pages have several news items each week), so that's what makes it unattractive to me. I don't want to place this item in the middle of a "ghost town". But Wikinfo fits the bill pretty well. Thanks for all the links. Peter S. 18:28, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I am looking for information regarding ethnic backgrounds[edit]

I am looking for information regarding the Cherokee Indian ethnic background and also the German Ethnic background. What I need to know is some type of history for each of them and also if the group suffered any forms of discrimmination or if they participated in any form of discrimmination. I also need to know if either of these two groups faced the following: prejudice,segragation,or racism.

Try looking it up in the relevant articles first, using the search function. If you cannot find it on Wikipedia, try doing a general search on the internet (e.g. with Google). If you cannot find it anywhere, you may ask it at the reference desk. Good luck! Melsaran 14:38, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

wikipedia image storage[edit]

Help! I am pretty new to Wikipedia. I have created a new page for Prospect Hill Cemetery in Washington, DC for which I also maintain a website. I would like to add some photos to the Wikipedia article and have uploaded the first image. But I can not figure out where those uploaded images are stored so that I can use the reference in the article. I think I need some guidance here. Thanks wenzela (Al Wenzel)

First, welcome to Wikipedia! If you wish to include an image in the article, please ensure that it is a free image, and not a copyrighted one. Details can be found here. You can find instructions on how to include images at Help:Image. Generally, you should use something like [[Image:Nameofyourimage.jpg|thumb|right|50px|Description of the image]]. Cheers! Melsaran 14:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Welcome again Wenzel to Wikipedia. May the Wikipedian community please kindly suggest that you sign after your question with two hyphens and four tildes (e.g. --~~~~) Thank you very much. --Mayfare 15:30, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
You can also see a complete list of images you have uploaded by clicking "my contributions" in the top left of your screen. On the contributions screen, click on "logs" under the title, and that will show all of your photo uploads (along with some other things). Natalie 04:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC

RSS Feeds on Specific Questions[edit]

Hello. I have read your WP:RSS article. How can I subscribe a specific question to RSS feeds without subscribing the entire Reference Desk's history? If I subscribed the entire Reference Desk's history to RSS feeds, my feed will show me that the Reference Desk was changed not necessarily my question. Thanks in advance. --Mayfare 15:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that is possible. The article you read describes our compatibility, and it does not seem to mention what you're asking for. Sorry. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like you want "by-section" RSS, rather than the current "by-page" model. There's a few difficulties, there: section numbers change frequently, and section titles aren't usually as static as one might think. Not sure how big performance issues might be. But in any case, I don't believe that's a feature or going to be one, soon, sorry. As another option, you could ask if the kind volunteers at the refdesk/helpdesk would reply to your user talk page, which would at least get you the on-wiki new messages notice bar. – Luna Santin (talk) 18:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


What causes anaemia in an HIV/AIDS positive patient

You might find what you are looking for in the article about AIDS. If you cannot find the answer there, click here to post your question at that article's talk page. If that doesn't solve your problem, you can try asking your question at Wikipedia's Reference Desk. They'll be glad to answer questions about anything in the universe (except about how to use Wikipedia, which is what this help desk is for). I hope this helps. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

WYSIWYG Editor for Wikipedia?[edit]


Is there any WYSIWYG editor for wikipedia? I've got alot to contribute but it really is a nightmare editing the articles. If you could get a fully fledged text editor it'd be great. Referencing is quite difficult, I've found.

I've done a few searches and I've got wikiEd installed, but it isn't that good.

Thanks for any help.

It would seem the page at m:WYSIWYG editor provides some instruction on how to implement such an editor. I'm not sure how well they work, though. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:13, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Help With Rothersthorpe[edit]

Can someone help by doing the co-ordinates, as two bits of text are overlapping each over and it is non sensicle, cheers ( its at top right of article)27pence 16:12, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The Infobox UK Place template is creating a set of coordinates of its own. In order to get them to display properly, you're going to have to choose between the Infobox's way of doing things (decimal coordinate system) or the coordinate template's (normal dms style). Note, however, that removing the coordinates from the infobox will also remove the map. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:17, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Knuckle Banjo[edit]


Just purchased a Knuckle Banjo. What is this insterments history and how is it played? Any further information you can give me will be appreciated. Very interested in this insterment.

Many thanks to you.

Sincerely, Katie

You might find what you are looking for in the article about Banjo. If you cannot find the answer there, click here to post your question at that article's talk page. If that doesn't solve your problem, you can try asking your question at Wikipedia's Reference Desk. They'll be glad to answer questions about anything in the universe (except about how to use Wikipedia, which is what this help desk is for). I hope this helps. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:22, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

How do I kill a crape myrtle?[edit]

While I love crape myrtles for their southern elegance, they can be an obnoxious unwanted guest when a diseased or damaged tree has to be cut down. I have three such problem children that continue to send up shoots. I can't afford for the stumps to be removed,(we rent this place) and would like not to have to resort to chemical applications. However, if chemicals are the only thing to keep me from fighting this battle, BRING 'EM ON!!!!!

I'm afraid we can only offer assistance with how to use Wikipedia. The folks at the Reference Desk might be able to help you, but I'd recommend you ask a local gardener or someone else experienced with this situation. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:49, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
This is just one example of a vast amount of non-Wikipedia related queries that are really starting to drive everyone up the wall. Can we not make it super CLEAR that this isn't allowed? Lradrama 17:38, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I'll see if I can tweak the header a bit... but unfortunately, some people still miss the really big letters. Hersfold (t/a/c) 17:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
If we look at that header with the big red writing, it couldn't be any clearer could it? Eeeee some people you have to deal with... ;-) Lradrama 18:42, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I am pretty sure we cannot, with current technology, make it "super CLEAR" that Reference desk questions belong on the Reference desk. This is just what happens when people try to use unfamiliar technology. Many people require repeated exposure to a new chunk of information before it sinks in - that is why, for example, you have seen those iPhone commercials fifty times in the last month. Advertisers understand the repetition principle very well. So do drill sergeants. When an average person looks at something unfamiliar for the very first time, often they are simply blind to some aspects of it (such as some of the instructions at the top of this page). See: Cognitive distortion - many people tend to jump to conclusions based on the first clue they see (such as the title of this page: "Help desk" which they interpret optimistically as applying to their need for help), and then their cognitive filters reject data that doesn't support their premature conclusion. This is not to say we shouldn't have instructions - some people comprehend them, and I believe that even when a person doesn't fully get the instructions on the first exposure, that first exposure still counts as one of the repetitions they will need to finally get it. But rest assured that no amount of tweaking of the instructions will make them comprehensible to all new users on the first exposure. That just isn't how the human brain typically works (or fails to work). If we had the technology to make the Help desk idiotproof (such as computers that could pass the Turing test), such technology could just as well answer all the questions automatically, and we would not need human volunteers to answer them. --Teratornis 18:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, I should add that any Help desk volunteer who finds him/herself bothered by inappropriate questions (and I'm as guilty of this as anyone else, given that some of my replies might be construable as, shall we say, a bit condescending now and then) might consider stepping back a little. To function constructively in any online venue requires more than the average person's endowment of sangfroid. There are lots of Help desk volunteers who seem willing to share the load, so when you've seen one more inappropriate question than you can take, you don't have to take any more for a while. The Help desk suffers from some rather serious ergonomic shortcomings, not the least of which is that it requires more knowledge of talk page conventions than most new users are likely to have. It's almost as if the Help page is designed for the people who don't need it (i.e., someone with enough Wikipedia experience to use the Help desk properly might also know how to look up their own answers). In any case, it might help to remember that Wikipedia is essentially just a giant experiment to see if we really can build an encyclopedia of the highest quality with millions of volunteers on a wiki. While the general progress is impressive, not every aspect of the project amounts to an unbroken string of success. --Teratornis 19:05, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
People have suggested changing the name to something like Wikipedia:Help Desk for Using Wikipedia, but those proposals have not gone anywhere.--Max Talk (+) 20:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

My summary of the same points:

  1. People don't read the instructions, therefore
  2. Don't be surprised when they don't read the instructions,
  3. Don't complain when they don't read the instructions, and
  4. Try to help them out with whatever they do do. AndyJones 21:02, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Nicely put. Will do just that. Lradrama 13:12, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


Please delete me completely out of WikiProject Fashion, ASAP. --Bandoim 17:49, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You don't appear to be on the participants list. I'm afraid I don't understand your request. Hersfold (t/a/c) 17:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
That's one WikiProject I delete myself from every day just by getting dressed. --Teratornis 19:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
All seriousness aside, see WP:PROJGUIDE for more information about joining a WikiProject. There is no binding mechanism for joining (or leaving) a WikiProject. You just add your username to the list of participants on the project page to join, and delete your username from the list when you want to leave. If your username is not on the list of participants now, you aren't in the project. If you mean that you want to remove any record of your past participation in the project, that's a little more complicated. See: m:Right to vanish. --Teratornis 19:12, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Requesting articles[edit]

Hello. I have a question. How do you request articles?

You can go to Requested Articles, or if you're an unregistered user and have an article already written, you can submit it at Articles for Creation. Hersfold (t/a/c) 18:13, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The Wilmington Ten Incident of February 1971[edit]

Why is it still in an unintelligble form after about a month in the Wikipedia. Why is it in a sandbox?--Larry Reni Thomas 18:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I have had a look at the article, and, yes, it does need a lot of work. But it didn't really need to be put on the help desk did it? And do not put your signature in the body of the article - that was one of the reasons why it looked such a mess. Lradrama 18:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
If you'd like someone to come by and help work on an article, you can tag it with the code {{cleanup}} as I have done. That makes editors more aware that the article is in need of improvement. Of course, you're more than welcome to help make the changes yourself. :-) Hersfold (t/a/c) 18:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Well done for sorting that out. ;-) Lradrama 20:48, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


Where can I find images such as the ones found here. Please leave answers on my talk page - Pheonix 19:49, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You can find them right there. Just click "edit this page" and copy the image you want. Then, paste it where you want to use it. --Boricuaeddie 21:23, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
No, no, no, I mean where can I find images like these or of the same style - Pheonix 23:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

How to delete a link template[edit]


I know how to nominate articles for deletion, but how do you nominate a link template for deletion? Thanks in advance. Miles Blues 21:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You're looking for TFD. --Boricuaeddie 21:21, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

How to request for an article split[edit]


I would like to request for the article Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States be split into a page with the list on its own but I don't know where I can propose this. Would somebody please explain to me on my talk page where to make such a request.--Southern Texas 23:38, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I replied this on User talk:Southern Texas: you can place {{Splitsection}} in Speaker of the United States House of Representatives#List of Speakers, and discuss further on the talk page of the article. PrimeHunter 01:32, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

How to find uploaded images[edit]

Now that I have uploaded an image for a page I can't find it. Help --Wenzela 23:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You are probably looking for Image:Prospect hill gravesites.JPG. All the other images you have uploaded were deleted. To see your upload log, click here. You can use that page in the future to locate all images you have uploaded. I hope this helps! Please feel free to reply if you have any further questions. --NickContact/Contribs 23:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

My "Baby Mack G" profile was deleted and i can say why I am notable[edit]

First off I was the kid speaking on that Hurricane Chris Song "A Bay Bay" which is number 15 on the top 100 in itunes. And then I was the kid in the Soulja Boy song "Crank Dat" the kid dancing in front of Mr. Collipark and I want my account back.