Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 November 14

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November 14[edit]

Images and text[edit]

An image with thumb and right given as options

Can anyone tell me how to wrap text round an image. What I mean if that is not the correct term is that I want to place text by the side of an image, and not underneath. Thanks Ron Barker 11:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

You need to 'float' the image to one side so that text wraps around it. The easiest way to do this is by thumbnailing the image by giving the options 'thumb' and 'right' (or 'left') to the image; the image I've floated to the side of this question was produced by [[Image:Example.svg|thumb|right|An image with thumb and right given as options]]. See Help:Image for more information. --ais523 11:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks I cannot believe the speed of he response! Ron Barker 12:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Article has been wrecked - List of twin towns and sister cities[edit]


This article has been wrecked List of twin towns and sister cities Can you help, please?--Vernon White . . . Talk 00:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I cannot fix it. Experimentation indicates the problem is the size, maybe the number of templates. The current version [1] breaks for me right after Annaberg-Bucholz, Germany in the Estonia section. If a few entries much earlier are removed then it breaks correspondingly later. If all entries above the Estonia section are removed then nothing breaks. Maybe the only solution is splitting or shortening it. PrimeHunter 01:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh my word. The problem is definitely the template limit - according to the page's HTML source, things are WAY too big:
Pre-expand include size: 2047954 bytes  <-- That value cannot go over the Maximum value below. If a template causes it to do so, it isn't transcluded.
Post-expand include size: 434427 bytes
Template argument size: 149991 bytes
Maximum: 2048000 bytes
I'll try to split it up into lists by continent, since that seems to be the current division anyway. Hopefully it won't blow up my computer. Hersfold (t/a/c) 04:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, it's done. Now that they're separated, everything is displaying properly. Hersfold (t/a/c) 05:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Good work. PrimeHunter 12:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Red links list[edit]

I was just wondering, there is a list of articles by number of pages that link to them. Is there also a list of articles (that do not yet exist) by number of red links linking to them? If there is such a thing I would be very interested. Thank you. Baldrick90 00:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Most wanted articles. PrimeHunter 01:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Preventing my page from being deleted... for a little while[edit]

Hi, i'm a Senior in high school starting up college applications to various Universities. One of the Universities I wish to attend is Rice University in Houston, Texas. Its a difficult University to get into. I am trying to set myself appart from all the other applicants in the pool. I was wondering if i could temporarily create a Wikipedia page under my name until April 1, 2008. I know they said that creating pages under names is a bad idea and they would usually be deleted. If i created a page about myself is there anyway i could prevent it from being deleted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

No, but if you create an account, you can make a user subpage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartyllama (talkcontribs) 01:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
See WikiIndex for other wikis that accept biography pages from people who are not notable enough for Wikipedia (yet). For example, you could try WikiBios, where anyone may write an autobiography, without the bother of Wikipedia's notability requirements. --Teratornis 01:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Creating a page for Jared Andrew CohenVulakovichkl 01:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[edit]

How can I create/edit information for a page on Jared Andrew Cohen. He is an accomplished artist and a scholar of history and political science, with a special focus on Africa and U.S. foreign policy. In order to work, research, and travel through 21 different African countries, Jared has sold his own artwork in galleries and to private buyers. His book, 100 Days of Silence: America and the Rwanda Genocide, led to his employment as a consultant for PBS Frontline's documentary on that genocide. Jared's experience in government includes work at the State Department and summer employment at the Pentagon. Outside of government service, Jared worked for the Institute for Democracy in South Africa (Idasa). Jared is the youngest consultant for the "Forum on Early Warning and Emergency Response," has worked for the Hoover Institution, and is the founder and editor-in-chief of Six Degrees: A Stanford Journal of Human Rights. Fluent in Kiswahili and conversant in Maa and its dialects, he spent three months living with the Maasai of Kenya, herding cattle and conducting research. He started the Ilboru Project, which sends school supplies and teaching aids to the Ilboru village of Tanzania, where Jared says his interest in Africa began. Jared was the first junior to win Stanford's Hines Prize for the best senior honors thesis and has won several research and anthropology awards. Before attending Stanford, Jared was an all-state Connecticut soccer goalie and holds the state record for most career saves (fourth all-time in the United States). Jared gets inspiration from his parents and sister "who have always encouraged me to follow my passion." (

Can you let me know how I can do this?

The pages at Help:Starting a new page and Wikipedia:Your first article should have most of the information you need. Before you begin, please carefully read through our policies and guidelines on notability, citing reliable sources for verification, neutrality, and formatting and article layout, where many new users commonly make mistakes. You may also want to consider checking out what Wikipedia is not, the deletion policy and criteria for speedy deletion so you know specifically what to avoid when writing your article. I hope this helps. Hersfold (t/a/c) 02:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Who is the webmaster?[edit]

Who is the webmaster? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a wiki with a huge number of contributors and no single webmaster although some people have more permissions than others. Is there something more specific you want to know? PrimeHunter 02:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
To detail that further, the majority of Wikipedia is run by regular editors with no extra permissions. Around 1400 editors have administrator permissions, and a few of them have additional permissions such as bureaucrat, oversight, checkuser, and others. The ones who would be closest to "webmasters" would probably be the developers, who keep the servers running and write the MediaWiki software that Wikipedia runs on.
However, any questions you might have could probably be answered by an experienced editor. Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 03:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Family Becker orCourtovielle[edit]

Looking for– —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Do you have a specific question? There are no Google results on orCourtovielle [2] or on Courtovielle [3]. PrimeHunter 02:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

How to make a page[edit]

I am a gamer, and would like to make pages on favorite charecters. PLease,respond and tell me how to make a page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at Wikipedia:Your first article. --Sopoforic 02:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Also see Wikipedia:Notability (fiction).
You will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.
Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.
If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. PrimeHunter 02:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Log in problems[edit]

I am Dagoflores and my E-mail is <email removed>. mx without spaces.

Suddendly today my password sttoped being validated, so I requested a new password, but it never came over the E-mail.

Now I can not log in.

What should I do? Please send message to the mentioned E-mail address.

Dagoberto G. Flores-Lozano Aguascalientes, AGS, MEXICO —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I have removed your email address as this page is highly vulnerable to spammers and other security risks which could compromise your email if it is posted here, as stated at the top of this page. Also, we are not able to respond to your questions via email.
As for your request, the emails do sometimes take a while to come in. If you are sure you validated your email before the account stopped working, then check your spam folders and try waiting another day or so if you haven't already done so. If you did not validate your email address, we are unable to recover your password and you must create a new account. That may be the best option anyway - your account is only shown to have made only two edits almost three years ago. Sorry we can't be of more assistance. Hersfold (t/a/c) 04:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Never mind, as suggested by another Wikipedia Administrator, I just opened another user record, hope this is not against your policies. By the way, he told me that "Senior/Elders rights" is not encyclopedic enough as to deserve a Section at this site. Is it so?, Which is your opinion?, by the way I researched the term at Goggle & Yahoo, and found nothing... is not that funny?, I am trying to change the world Society through Wikipedia? How I should promote this? Is there a WikiForum? MEXICO-AGS - --JuanPuebloMex (talk) 21:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Requesting an Article[edit]

I have looked everywhere to try to find out how I can suggest an article... all I sen up at is a bunch of lists of articles people are requesting and a bunch of nonsense that I don't understand. All I want is an article over the Argentinian Mastiff... a dog. I have looked at all the articles over requesting articles and they don't help, so please don't send me a bunch of links.

Hey... I have an idea! How about you (whoever is reading this message) just request the article for me! Since it took me about 20 minutes just to find out how I can sent you a message... you can spend about 2 minutes to request it! Thanks in advance! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

You can create the article yourself at Articles for Creation. Cheers, --Bfigura (talk) 05:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
You can also read the one at Argentine Dogo. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone completely messed up a page[edit]

Someone ruined one of the pages, they messed up some of the info on there. Here is the link —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:08, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. It looks like the vandalism has been reverted now. In future you can do this yourself - see Help:Reverting for more information. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 05:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

different seasons in northern and southern hemisphere.[edit]

w —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure of your question, however please note that this help desk is for questions about using Wikipedia. If you have a question about something not related to this encyclopedia, the Reference Desk may be able to help you. - Rjd0060 06:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Question regarding usage of Wikipedia[edit]

Hi there, hope this is not a stupid question, but after reading the term of this service I am still unclear about the topic.

I want to know if I can list 3 people and their up to date biographies on the wikipedia AND the music project (band) that they are involved with? It will be written subjectively as stated.

Please let me know if I can use this service?

Thank you

I can be contacted back on email address removed Pedro :  Chat  08:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanx for your time —Preceding unsigned comment added by Virgo28 (talkcontribs) 08:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Virgo28. The key thing is that the band, and/or members of the band, are notable. You might find guidelines at WP:MUSIC will help you. Pedro :  Chat  08:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I hope you mean objectively, not subjectively. Arthena(talk) 10:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Protecting Pages[edit]

How can someone protect a page? ( I want to protect my userpage and subpages) - Lex94 Talk Contributions Guest Book 10:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Protection policy, specifically the Semi-protection section, and Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. --Silver Edge 10:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


I would like to know if there is any way to determine a city, town, ect that is located in every state. We are working on a Boy Scout project to promote Scouting and it would be great to address every state by use of a common location. Thanks John Blair —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi. :) Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
U.S. state lists the capital and most populous city in each state, and has links to articles for each state where more cities are mentioned. PrimeHunter 14:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

GNU Free Documentation License and translating articles, for free distribution to clients as a newsletter(printed copies)[edit]

I'm sure this has been answered before, but I can't track down any answers and I'm having a heck of a time understanding exactly how to comply with the GNU FDL. I've read the license several times ,but am unable to find an answer to my question.

If I see an article, such as the "Management", which is part of a compilation that is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License , and I make it into a derivitive work such as an article or a newsletter or a journal by translating it in a vernacular language, say Gujarati, that I then distribute to my clients, what must I do? Should the whole GFDL Text, which is of three to four pages shall be printed alongwith the article, which is merely one page?

My questions: ++What else would I have to do? Is there something about linking to the GFDL? ++Where do I have to do this. It seems crazy to list the contributors and the GFDL. Could I put the URL Address in place of the full GFDL Text? The license is longer than the work covered by the license. ++Is there some other way to use the article from wikipedia without violating copyrights law?

Thank you all so very much in advance for your help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 14 November 2007

Yes, unfortunately at the moment you have to embed a copy of the license in your work, and a list of authors, due to the way that the license is worded; maybe you could just do it in small font (but large enough to be readable). The GFDL was originally designed for large books, where this isn't really a problem, but it can cause problems for things like newsletters. There is a new draft of the GFDL being considered that might solve some of these problems, but it's unlikely to be used for several years, and so at the moment you're stuck with the situation that you have to include the license with the article, even though it's longer. Your only other alternative is to convince all the authors of the article (visible in the 'history' tab at the top of the article) to multilicense the article under a simpler license, and that doesn't usually happen, especially as many of the authors often can't be tracked down. See Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ for more information. --ais523 12:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

sending a request to the reference desk[edit]

How so you know when you request has gone to the refernce desk? It seems to have ended up at the end of long list of other requests. There was no send button once I entered the box like this. All it had was 'save page' not 'send page'. Does it save to a place that the reference desk reads?

Thank you Nonie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nonie Hodgson (talkcontribs) 13:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, your question has been saved correctly at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#highest lake in each continent. The page should be displayed with your contribution and without a "Editing ..." headline after you pressed "Save page", and that shows the page was correctly saved. PrimeHunter 14:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Note: Many people will only answer where it was asked, so you have to monitor the above link for answers. There is one now. PrimeHunter 14:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed new user warning template[edit]

I've had quite a few occasions where I've noticed a user leaving a message for another user on their userpage, rather than their talk page. Going in and moving the message across doesn't take much time, but then writing out the usual "By the way you accidentally left your message on the userpage rather than the talk page, I've moved it across for you, watch out for that in the future" message on the user's talk page takes up the time.

I've had a look through Category:User warning templates, and whilst I can see a template for warning someone about leaving talk in articlespace, I can't see that there's a similar warning about leaving talk on userspace, not user talk space.

I've come up with the template (based on one of the other warnings) which is currently in my Sandbox at User:Gilesbennett/Sandbox - the versions shown either include a link to the specific user's pages in question (where that detail is inserted as part of the template usage) or doesn't (if left blank).

My question is (i) have I just reinvented the wheel, and if so, where's the wheel? And (ii) if I think this is a sensible template to include in Category:User warning templates, do I just create the template in templatespace and add the appropriate category tag to it?

Thanks in advance for any comments. Giles Bennett (Talk, Contribs) 13:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I haven't heard of a template that provides such a message, and I know most of the UTM templates we have. You might want to bring it up at WT:UTM, as you'll probably get more useful comments there. Hersfold (t/a/c) 15:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikitables - no show/hide[edit]

I want to copy the following Wikipedia page to my own wiki in order to experiment with show/hide wikitables:

Everything seems to be working, but there is no [show] or [hide] at the right. Here is what I have done:

1) From MediaWiki:Common.js, copy the section that starts with the comments:

/** Collapsible tables *********************************************************

 *  Description: Allows tables to be collapsed, showing only the header. See
 *               Wikipedia:NavFrame.
 *  Maintainers: User:R. Koot

2) From MediaWiki:Common.css, copy the section that starts with the comments:

/* wikitable/prettytable class for skinning normal tables */

3) Copy the following templates:

Hidden Rh

OldGrantonian 14:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid we can only offer support with the English Wikipedia - the Mediawiki software and external sites that use them are a bit beyond our scope. You might be better off asking at the MediaWiki support desk. Sorry! Hersfold (t/a/c) 15:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Wiktionary link[edit]

At Tyrone Wheatley I am having trouble remembering the format for a wiktionary link.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 14:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It's like this: [[:wikt:word]] Arthena(talk) 15:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
See: Help:Interwiki linking for general background. wikt: and wiktionary: are both valid interwiki link prefixes for Wiktionary. For example: wikt:Wiktionary is an inline link. If you want to add a Wiktionary link on an article's title word, displaying it in a nice box, use the {{Wiktionary}} template. --Teratornis 17:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Cannot see newly created Wiki page when googling subject[edit]

I just started a new page today. Before going beyond the first paragraph and uploaded image, I saved my progress and per wiki it said changes saved were immediate. I went to Google this new page and do not see the wiki page. Does it take up to 24 hours for a page to be available via a search engine? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NorthernFlyer (talkcontribs) 16:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it takes somewhere between 12 and 24 hours for the Google bots to update their search. GlassCobra 16:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
(ec) Unfortunately, the google search listings do not update at the same time as Wikipedia does, I believe you're correct — it does take 24hrs to my knowledge, but it will update it's self in the next few days. Qst 16:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Google takes an unpredictable amount of time to update its index of Wikipedia, and apparently nothing we do can change this. However, Google tends to elevate Wikipedia articles in its search results, suggesting that Google bots may be similarly prioritizing their Wikipedia scans. In the greater scheme of things, the normal indexing delays are insignificant. After all, There is no deadline. --Teratornis 18:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Template parameter with list of items?[edit]

Is it possible to use a template parameter as a list? So, for example, I have a parameter:


instead of:



which I them (somehow!) can use like:

My list is:
# a
# b
# c

Expressed in another way, the problem is if I pass a list of items as a single parameter, is there a way to break it up into multiple parameters. Maybe using a "listofitems" template?

Sure, I can do it with myparm1 type of syntax, and #if stuff, but say I have loads of items in the list, it gets unweildy.

Thanks for any ideas!

Rugops 17:08, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

You can't do it like that. You could use numbered parameters, like this:
and a whole lot of complicated ParserFunction markup to adjust the list to the right length at the other side, but the template system wasn't designed for the sort of usage you're suggesting here. --ais523 17:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Are you saying you want your template to be able to handle a variable number of items? The MediaWiki template syntax is not as flexible as, say, Perl or Python, but some of these intricate templates do some impressive things. You might also see:
For example, searching for: variable list finds the {{Pagelist}} template which seems to accept a variable number of arguments. You might find something there to emulate. --Teratornis 18:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

reference dilema[edit]

Good Morning Wiki,

Thank you for your fast reply. I have included the response below. I am a little disappointed.

I fail to see how an encyclopedia must rely solely on other interpretations before allowing information posted on brand new devices and creations. I am an amateur historian, so I know the value in reliable sources, and there absolute importance in making objective articles about topics. I agree they are required 95% of the time.

But what about cases were the topic is completely new? Does wiki not have a research team capable of verifying posts about brand new items? Surely there is something that can be done when an article posted has brand new information about something few of heard about simply because it hasnt existed, or received much recognition?

Encyclopedias do not avoid publishing information on new products solely because they are not yet known by thousands of people. Does this mean that in order to publish work to Wiki, it has to be an old topic well documented? If this is true, does that not mean that all information on wiki is outdated? Why stop new interesting and important material on new devices, services, establishments, inventions and people simply because they are new and not well documented online? Surely this defeats the purpose of having an upto date encyclopedia?

How can I compile references about something that hasn’t been referenced yet? Does wiki not whish to take on the role of educating people? If so, why not include new articles about new inventions and allow others to learn about them, write about them and begin the documenting process? Revisions can then be made from the original article, hammering out the facts, while also allowing Wiki to take on the important role of being the first to document new inventions.

You have presented me with a catch 22. I cant generate objective reliable verifiable references without showing people the invention, and I cant tell the history of the invention without references...? With all due respect, this course of action is contrary to the free information and educational principles I thought Wiki stood for.

There are a number of reporters for BBQ equipment and new inventions that have written about the Cobb. If I referenced them would that work? What if I referenced all documents send to me from the various distributors? What if I submitted the emails I have received from people at the Cobb company? Would that qualify? I could include customer reviews also both negative and positive to the Cobbs performance?

What would qualify as a third party source? Would an online blog or online magazine publication be considered this?

I have used Wiki most of my life as a source of upto date information. Surely Wiki will not stop new information about new devices from being made available to the public? I wrote objectively, adding no personal inclinations to the device. I merely wrote its history which I personally compiled. Had someone compiled this information before me and posted in a news article, we would not be having this problem.

Why is that not enough as a starting article? Why not allow users and future writers to amend, add or rectify the article later? Please consider the unique position I am in. I whish to write future articles on other new inventions in wiki which have not yet been posted, but how can I reference third parties when the topics in question do not even yet have first parties?

Thank you for your time and attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew Concepts (talkcontribs) 17:41, November 14, 2007

Wikipedia does not seek to be "on the cutting edge" of anything; we are accumulators of previously published knowledge from reliable, neutral, third-party sources. If something claims to be "brand new information about something few of heard about simply because it hasnt existed, or received much recognition" then I'm sorry, it has no place here. Please read our standards on notability, corporations, advertisements, and above all verifiability. Blogs, advertisements and catalogs, customer testimonials, company websites: these are not adequate sources of information that can be relied upon as impartial. --Orange Mike 18:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
There are thousands of other wikis. For almost anything a person could want to write, there is probably another wiki which will welcome it. For example, Wikinfo accepts original research. If you cannot find a suitable wiki for your subject matter, then you can start your own. Thus the "dilemma" you perceive is actually a "false dilemma," because Wikipedia's rejection barely limits your remaining choices. Also, be aware that "wiki" is not the same as "Wikipedia." (You may live in a house, but if someone asks where you live, "House" is not a distinct answer, because there are many houses.) --Teratornis 18:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Also see WP:NOT for a list of types of content Wikipedia does not include. Far from being "the sum of all human knowledge," Wikipedia actually excludes the vast majority of human knowledge. However, this may be partly due to the current physical constraints of the project (number of volunteers, amount of monetary donations, server space, network bandwidth). If Wikipedia continues to grow, it may tend to become more comprehensive over time. On the other hand, other wiki projects are trying to fill the gaps that Wikipedia leaves (such as wikiHow for procedural knowledge), so perhaps Wikipedia will stick to its self-imposed limitations indefinitely and let other projects handle the rest. --Teratornis 18:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Correct Definition for The United States Professional Poolplayers Association (UPA)[edit]

Hello My name is Frank Alvarez III. I am the presidnt of the United States Professional Poolplayers Association. Thank you for listing us in your definations. However the contect is incorrect and is misleading to our industry and potential interests. Here is a list of items that need to be corrected.

1. "United States Professional Poolplayers Association (UPA") is the proper name.

2. We are not in competition with the Billiard Congress of America. They acknowledge us as the governing body. We partner with them. They are a trade organization and we are the men's professional association. There is no competition.

3. We are not in competition with the International Pool Tour. They are an international entity and they are not officialy acknowledged by the billiard industry. We govern the U.S. rankings and official tour.

4. Please post the proper information about our assocation as found here:

Thank you.

Frank Alvarez III UPA, President E-mail removed NF24(radio me!Editor review) 21:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Uparep (talkcontribs) 19:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

An editor has moved the article to the official name United States Professional Poolplayers Association. I removed the unsourced statement about competition and notified the editor who added it. PrimeHunter 12:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Some of the above is certainly good correction material. But other parts of it strike me as "spin", and some of it is utterly POV-pushing WPT bashing; there is no love lost between UPA and WPT, who are in fact in direct competition - for professional players, TV airtime, sponsors, venues, and prestige (or I should say have been and probably will be again - WPT is on hiatus due to some financial problems). Furthermore, the BCA is the WPA US affiliate, and in this role it necessarily plays a part in US-level WPA ranking events; it is also the major sponsor of the WPBA. Both of these compete for the same resources with the UPA and (when it is active) the WPT. Furthermore, BCA is also a national amateur league. Characterizing the BCA as simply an trade association is not accurate. I'll let all of these edits stand for now but some of this will be undone, expanded with more detail, and fully sourced. Note to Help Desk folks: Don't take official representatives' (of anything) word for it; per WP:COI Wikipedia articles should not be directly edited by article subjects and their using WP:HELPDESK to edit them by proxy isn't really any different. This should instead have been discussed at the article's talk page. PS: To Alvarez's credit, the BCA/UPA relationship is far more complex that the article described; this too should be expanded upon and sourced. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:12, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

translation of articles[edit]

How can I translate an article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElenaHB (talkcontribs) 20:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:TRANSL might be what you're looking for, or at least a place to get started. I hope that helps some. Hersfold (t/a/c) 22:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Ipatinga kits[edit]

I don't really have the resources necessary for the job so I was wondering if someone could make the following pictures able to go into a football (soccer) article. To do this someone would have to break them up into different sections, see here. And please remove the red as well, Wikipedia kit designs are not suppose to have a lot of detail. If someone isn't able to do it or if this isn't the place to ask can you point to me someone who will be able to do it. Here are the pictures: Ipatinga home.png Ipatinga away.png. Thanks AJSDA115 20:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

No reason to remove the red, we've got Kit body red sleeve seams.pngRandom832 02:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

case citations[edit]

Does Wikipedia have an 'in house' way of citing cases, maybe in the form of a {{citeweb}} or {{citebook}} template? What is the most common practice of citing law cases? Martijn Hoekstra 20:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't edit law articles, but maybe Category:Law citation templates is of help. PrimeHunter 20:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, well, there they all are. Erm. That looks pretty confusing though. I'll see if I can find what I need. Thanks though! Martijn Hoekstra 20:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

SEM Micrographs[edit]

Joseph Evans [Ticket#2007111410015488] to me to contact you about my question. When I looked up "strawberry" on Wikipedia, I noticed that there were several photos of strawberries but no micrographs. A few weeks back I took some SEM micrographs of strawberry seeds and "hairs" for my grandaughter My question was how can I donate or post a micrograph of a strawberry seed on the area where there are photos of strawberries? Bob Lindsey21:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)21:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)~~

Assuming you already have the images on your computer, WIkipedia:Uploading images explains how to put them on the wiki. Algebraist 21:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use or overuse?[edit]

I'm wondering if someone could give me a all-clear on a block of text I cut and paste to see if it falls within fair use. Everything *is* cited but I'm concerned that so much is quoted and paraphrased that the cited author is all but writing the section. Of the sentences in the section:

  1. one sentence of the editors own composition
  2. a rearrangement of the clauses of a sentence found in the source: the first half thinly paraphrased and one clause quoted.
  3. one sentence of the editors own composition - a synopsis of two sentences in the source following closely (but not immediately) after sentence #2
  4. "Reports XXX:" followed by a large blockquote completes the section. In the cited source, this block quote follows the source of sentence #3.

Please advise - is this OK? Egfrank 21:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Text should be your own work as much as possible, if not entirely. Block quotes are OK if used sparingly and a source is provided, however you should try to avoid copying text verbatim from other sources as much as possible. Re-arranging sentences does not constitute your own work, and "thinly paraphrasing" text isn't a great idea either. Sorry. Hersfold (t/a/c) 23:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Hersfold is correct. A few quotes were relevant is okay, but the majority of an article should be the editor's own work. Paraphrasing is not a way to circumvent copyright. - Mgm|(talk) 23:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

That's what I suspected but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't being overly stringent. OK - the question is what to do next. The text was written by another editor and moved from another article - which raises two separate questions:

  • it is in the history of the two articles but in the current text of only one. Can I just replace it with something else or does more need to be done?
  • Although this probably the most dicey edit I've seen from this particular editor, it is not the first time I've seen this editor cut things close. So...
    • I'd like this editor to understand better understand the difference between fair use and um...the p. word
    • I'm absolutely *not* the person to tell this user that this is not such a good idea.
Egfrank 10:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, situation taken care of - deleted the passage and left a general note to "editors" on the talk page. Egfrank 05:55, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

fixing user categories[edit]

Hello: I'm trying to fix Category:User mx-es to make it comply with IETF language tags, but somehow I messed up the links. Maybe and admin may help me clean up this mess. Please post message on my userpage.-- Louie 21:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


How do you request pages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Lee91 (talkcontribs) 22:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

You could start at Wikipedia:Requested articles and look for a category that fits the subject of the article you are requesting. Leebo T/C 22:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


I want a important questions on physics on Second year intermedaite exams —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're trying to do research to study for an exam, the reference desk may be able to assist you. However, please be aware that we will not do your homework for you, and we will certainly not provide exam questions, mainly because we don't have them. Hersfold (t/a/c) 22:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Try WikiAnswers Lex94 Talk Contributions Guest Book 02:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC) or [ Yahoo! Answers Lex94 Talk Contributions Guest Book 02:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Uploading Information[edit]

I have a question about the Service Corporation International page. SCI is a client of Morningstar Communications. We wish to update the page with factual and verifiable information regarding the company. Is this a violation of the 3rd party policy? 22:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I assume you're a representative of Morningstar? I would recommend that you read the conflict of interest guideline; if you can add information to the page that is presented from a neutral point of view, then go ahead. GlassCobra 22:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Just a reminder that you should also make sure that you have a reliable source (a reilable website or published writing) for your info. ~ Bella Swan 22:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

deleting a wiki page[edit]

hi-- i need to delete an entire wiki entry that i wrote but don't know how. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Which page is it? And under which account did you create the page. Only Administrators can delete pages through one of the deletion processes. Woodym555 22:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
First, log in by clicking "Log in/Create an account" at the top of any page. Then, put {{db-author}} on the top of the article. An admin will come around and delete it if you actually wrote the page. NF24(radio me!Editor review) 23:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The Beatles Record Sales[edit]

On this page -,_worldwide_charts - it says that the Beatles had SEVEN other songs on the Billboard Hot 100, besides the top 5, on April 4, 1964, but the article only lists SIX. What's missing24.5.26.60 22:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for pointing out that discrepancy. The best place to post about this is at the talk page of the article (go to the article and then click on the tab marked "discussion" at the top). Just about every page on Wikipedia has an associated talk page like this for discussing the content. By the way, you can link to any article on Wikipedia by typing just its name, surrounded by doubled brackets ([[The Beatles record sales, worldwide charts]]). Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit 23:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

How do you insert a statistics table on the side of the page[edit]

Hi im a new user to wikipedia, and i've been trying to add a stats table but i cant figure out how. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slugfest101 (talkcontribs) 23:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

What sort of stats are you trying to add? Articles sometimes use infoboxes to convey statistical information about their subjects. If you want to display stats about yourself for your userpage, you may be interested in userboxes. If it's stats about Wikipedia you're interested in, Help:Variable might be what you're looking for. If none of these fit, or you just need help making tables, then Help:Table should show you the proper code. I hope this helps! Hersfold (t/a/c) 23:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Answered below at #How do you insert a mmastatistics table. Please make follow up posts in the same section to keep the discussion together. PrimeHunter 01:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


How can I create an entry for my company? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

First off, it would be better not to because you likely will have a conflict of interest. You are discouraged from creating or editing articles about something you are related to. If you really want to create the article, then read the links below, and if it meets those guidelines, then you may want to create an account or post on articles for creation. NF24(radio me!Editor review) 23:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Further reading: Wikipedia:Notability, Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies), Wikipedia:Verifiability
The pages at Help:Starting a new page and Wikipedia:Your first article should have most of the information you need. Before you begin, please carefully read through our policies and guidelines on notability, citing reliable sources for verification, neutrality, and formatting and article layout, where many new users commonly make mistakes. You may also want to consider checking out what Wikipedia is not, the deletion policy and criteria for speedy deletion so you know specifically what to avoid when writing your article. Also, you'll need to register an account before you will be able to edit a new page. If you would rather not do that, you can request an article at Requested Articles or submit one for consideration at Articles for creation. I hope this helps. Hersfold (t/a/c) 23:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

How do you insert a mmastatistics table[edit]

im still a little confused —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slugfest101 (talkcontribs) 23:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Please tell us the name of an article which has a statistics table in it that you would like to see in similar form in the article you are working on (may I assume it is Mike van Arsdale?).--Fuhghettaboutit 01:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
You can use {{MMAstatsbox}}. See Template talk:MMAstatsbox for how to use it. PrimeHunter 01:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)