Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 June 29

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June 29[edit]

Anyone who knows David Banner[edit]

Can you help and fix my articles David Banner production discography.

Thank you.

--Piazzajordan2 (Talk.) 03:06, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

cyclone, typhoon, storm[edit]

what is the difference between cyclone, typhoon and a storm? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. Calvin 1998 (t-c) 04:19, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Instead, how about you save the RefDesk the effort and look at cyclone, typhoon, and storm? Paragon12321 (talk) 04:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Also see hurricane and tropical depression. --Teratornis (talk) 07:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

334 M.O.B.B.[edit]

Can somebody help me out with that page?

--Piazzajordan2 (Talk.) 04:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

We don't really do that (but we can tell you where to find help). Perhaps ask the relevant WikiProject to help out? Calvin 1998 (t-c) 04:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
The article has been deleted. I think the speedy deletion tag was correct. One interview is not enough to show notability. If you find more sources, the article should be able to claim notability. Paragon12321 (talk) 04:37, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Firefox looses my cookie[edit]

I am a regular Wikipedia user. For some reason Firefox has started dropping my login almost immediately after registering. I have checked my cookie settings and am not otherwise having problems with cookies. What could be the matter? I'm tired of editing through MSIE. (talk) 06:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any cookie-related extensions (see tools, add-ons for a list of extensions)? Also, look at Edit, Preferences (or is that Tools, Options on Windows?) - check the Privacy tab for how long you want cookies to be stored, and check you haven't added Wikipedia to the Exceptions list. Also check the settings of the "clear private data" option, if you use that. Finally, did you remember to check the "remember me" box when you logged in? --h2g2bob (talk) 14:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I've done all those things, and the same thing happens. Installed FF3 today, but the same problem persists. I have deleted all Wikimedia cookies, to no effect. (talk) 22:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

main heading[edit]

Hi.. I was wondering how i can change the main heading for a text.. If you search for EFG International, International is spelled with a little i.. and I want it to be a capital I... Thank you for your help Regards 08:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I've  Done it for you - when autoconfirmed, you can do it yourself by clicking the 'move' tab...... Dendodge .. TalkContribs 08:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Put {{db-author}} on the page. I've just done it for you. If you want anything else to be deleted that you've made do the same. I've also removed your email address as it is likely to get spammed a lot etc if it's visible here. --Tombomp (talk/contribs) 09:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Google may maintain a cached copy of a page for some time after the original page disappears. Wikipedia has no control over what Google does. Some Internet archive sites such as the Wayback machine may maintain copies of some pages indefinitely. However, the PageRank of obscure pages may be low, pushing them down in Google's search results. On the other hand, if your name is unusual and appears on very few Web pages, a Google search might find all of them and list them on the first page of results. The general rule with information is that once information is on the Web, not even the RIAA's lawyers brandishing the DMCA can precisely control what happens to it. --Teratornis (talk) 17:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


am looking for a complete list of trees of united states —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:11, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Did you mean types of trees? Or a complete list of trees? If it's the former, it's best to ask at the reference desk for humanities. If it's the latter, all I can say is "good luck". :) Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 09:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
The science ref desk may have better tree-related knowledge. Also look at Category:Trees of the United States (an incomplete list). --h2g2bob (talk) 14:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Search Wikipedia with Google for: list of trees - that finds some articles with various lists of trees. For example, we have a List of Minnesota trees, which gets you about 1/50 of the way there (actually more than that, since many trees inhabit more than one state), if you're looking for a native species list, rather than a list of all the actual trees (we have some articles that list some notable specific trees). Do you want only native trees, or also exotic invader trees? The U.S. has lots of the latter. List of wild mammal species of Florida isn't about trees, but it's a featured list, and if you will make a featured list of all the U.S. trees, I will give you a barnstar. --Teratornis (talk) 02:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

can we find a user identity from a username[edit]

Hi, I've done some searching for this, and googled the helpdesk archives, but even though I assume it has come up before, I don't know where in the vast world of wikipedia it would be. The problem is this: someone I know has been defamed on a wikipedia page, and I need to know if there is a way we can find out anything about the identity of the perpetrator given the username. Can we get either the person's name, or even just the IP address which they used for their login? (talk) 09:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

No. Usernames are hidden from public view. The only way to find an IP address of a user is to do a checkuser, which is limited to only a handful of trusted users. However, this is almost never done, and only in extreme circumstances. See the checkuser policy and the privacy policy. Thanks, PeterSymonds (talk) 09:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
We can fix pages if you post the information to the living persons' noticeboard. Please read Wikipedia:Contact us/Article problem/Factual error (from subject), which says "Due to privacy concerns, we will not reveal information such as the IP addresses of registered Wikipedia users, except when mandated by law." While you are considering using a legal route, please do not edit Wikipedia. --h2g2bob (talk) 14:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Resizing images already used on Wikipedia[edit]

I'm trying to resize some overly-large non-free images already in use on Wikipedia articles. Whenever I do this, I have to reupload the image using the "upload a new version of this image" link on the image page. I then have to re-enter the fair use rationale, re-choose the copyright tag, my "comment" winds up being a big huge ugly mess (generally, it's the entire fair use rationale), and the old image can still be reverted to. See w:Image:YGW Cover 1.jpg. But, I see image pages where the comment is just a concise "resized for fair use reasons" or such, and the old image is totally gone. See w:Image:ID eNTITYvol1cover.jpg. (Actually, I can't make a nice concise comment anytime I upload an image; there is no place to enter your "comment".) What on earth am I doing wrong? I'm so frustrated trying to read the help pages I'm about to rip my hair out. --hamu♥hamu (TALK) 09:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

When you re-upload an image, the Summary becomes the comment— it does not replace the current summary text. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:32, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay, between the help here and from another editor I got this figured out. Because the reupload screen looks identical to the original upload screen and hides all the original content, I thought what gets reuploaded would entirely replace the original content, including more than just the image, and it was causing me no end of stress. LOL Thanks! --hamu♥hamu (TALK) 22:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


I'm working with Template:Derivatives market and I just wanted to know how to hide it in the Credit-linked note article. Thanks, Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Add |state=collapsed to the transclusion in the article (it's a parameter I just added)...... Dendodge .. TalkContribs 09:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I've just  Done it for you...... Dendodge .. TalkContribs 09:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for that. What did that parameter do exactly? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:58, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
It tells the javascript that does the "collapsing" to display this transclusion on the article in the "collapsed state" when the page is first opened in your browser. Normal is to have it in "autocollapse" which means that all boxes will be open when there are fewer than 3 collapsible boxes, and collapse them all if there are 3 or more. See also the documentation section of {{navbox}}. --TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Multiple images[edit]

I have two images I'd like to add to an article but I'd like them to both be in the same image frame, one above the other so they look like a single image (they're both the same width). Is there a way to do this? In case I'm not clear, have a look at the graphs I did for Gompertz function- there's three separate graphs that I combined to a single image. Could I get three individual images into the same frame if I can't combine them into a single one (they are animated gifs)? Cheers. Reyk YO! 09:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Try {{multiple image}}. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Editing a redirect[edit]

Need technical assistance. How to correct redirect(change name and spelling in redirect) without losing original article. I corrected a redirect and after saving there is only a double entry but not original article. Thanks.Caboga (talk) 13:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

If you redirect something, the article won't or shouldn't be there anyway. StewieGriffin! • Talk Sign Listen 14:52, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
When you ask about a page, always link to the page. Otherwise, Help desk volunteers have to waste time looking at your contributions to determine what you are trying to ask. On Wikipedia, we do not have simple general rules that work 100% of the time in every situation. Instead we have a set of complex rules which occasionally contradict and give rise to exceptions and special cases (much like law in the real world); therefore, we usually have to see the pages that led to a question, to see which conditional branch we are on. You appear to be asking about House of Kabudžić/Caboga and House of Caboga. The latter appears to be a redirect to the former just now, so whatever the problem might have been, I don't see the problem now. If you want to see the redirect page itself, you have to add &redirect=no to its URL, like this:
Please read Help:Redirect and WP:MOVE which explain how this works. --Teratornis (talk) 16:13, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

References causing gapping[edit]

Hi, I've noticed that when an article contains references this often leads to uneven gapping between the lines of text, see Dartmouth College for example. Is there anyway to overcome such gapping? Jamesmh2006 (talk) 17:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

There is a CSS edit that could possibly be made but I think it wasn't a good idea. I wouldn't worry about it - anything with a superscript messes up anyway. For example, this messes up this paragraph quite nicely. x42bn6 Talk Mess 17:23, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't see a problem with line spacing in Dartmouth College. I'm using Mozilla Firefox under Ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy). The problem may depend on the Web browser. You might find something useful in Wikipedia:Browser notes, or maybe in another link under WP:EIW#Browser. --Teratornis (talk) 17:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm using Mozilla Firefox 3 with Windows, and I don't have any problems, what browser are you using? - tholly --Turnip-- 20:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyright and references[edit]

How is copyright related to references? How do I tell if a reference can be used in WP? See this page for example. It says "All rights reserved" at the bottom but can I use it as a reference wrt copyright? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 17:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

We take information from outside sources to write our articles. If the place we take the information from is in the public domain, or under certain types of free licenses, then you can use the actual words, sentences, paragraphs as they appear appear in the source. By contrast, and for the vast majority of text on Wikipedia, when we use a source, it is copyrighted and our task is to distill from the source the information and write about it in our own words; you must not copy the words used—it is the form of the sentences that is copyrighted, not the information conveyed. Referencing is the act of telling users where you got the information. It is never a copyright violation to tell users where you got the information. The only connection between the references and copyright I can see is that it's sometimes a good idea to state in the reference that the source material is in the public domain so that others won't delete your contributon as a copyvio or a putative copyvio. Likewise, if you add a whoe bunch of polished text to an article and don't cite your source, that has all the hallmarks of a text dump and is likely to be reverted as a likely copyvio.

All this means that with respect to the website you reference in your question, so long as you aren't copying the words used on the website, the copyright status of that page is irrelevant; you can use the website as a source of information and then cite. I suggest using <ref></ref> tags with {{cite web}} in between to format the reference (if you donlt know what I mean, please see {{Refref}}). However, pleae also be aware that what we want in references is reliability. This page is dedicated to explaining what consitute reliable sources. I'm not sure that site is very reliable as a source. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Probably a majority of Wikipedia's reliable sources are under copyright. As to whether this is a problem, it depends on what you mean by "can be used." You can cite a copyrighted source, but you cannot copy and paste from it at length. See: WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE, WP:FOOT, WP:CITET, and WP:COPYVIO. If you can be more specific about what you want to do with this reference, we can give a more specific answer. --Teratornis (talk) 17:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
You can cite a reference with {{Cite web}} template code like this:
{{cite web
|title=Funded credit default swap
which I generated with the WPCITE plugin for Firefox. See: WP:EIW#Citetools. --Teratornis (talk) 17:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks for those replies. Now let me explain what I'm trying to do here. I removed some unsourced information from Credit derivative that at best, is confusing but is also not entirely true. Now I want to include the proper information which is

"A funded credit derivative involves the protection seller (i.e. the party that assumes the credit risk) making an initial payment that would be used to cover any potential credit events."

I don't like to add something without a source and I found the page I linked to above which is not available for free use. May I go ahead? This will really help me because all of the text books I use when editing are also copyright protected.

I should add that I'm fully aware of the reliability policy but I unfortunately don't have anything better at the moment. You will agree that the wrong information had to go, right? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 18:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and added the ref and the information. Please have a look at the last two sentences of the first paragraph under Credit derivative#Types and check if you think it's a copyright violation. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 20:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems from your comments that you still think a copyrighted work somehow makes it less usable as a reliable source. That isn't the case at all. We cannot copy and paste extended chunks of copyrighted material, but we can certainly cite it. Many if not most citations on Wikipedia are probably of copyrighted works. The only issue with the source you cited might be whether it qualifies as reliable, not whether it is under copyright. However, I'd just go ahead and use the source, and if someone else thinks it is unreliable, they can challenge it. Unfortunately I lack expertise in the domain of finance to comment on the correctness of either the before or after; I suspect the odds are low than any other Help desk volunteers having the necessary expertise would be reading just now. If you want opinions on the factual content, you might ask on the Reference desk - someone over there might know about finance. However, on Wikipedia, a sourced claim carries more weight than an unsourced claim. You mention textbooks - these can be acceptable as reliable sources, and you can cite them with the {{Cite book}} template. If you tell us the title(s) of some of these textbooks, we (or you) can possibly look them up with {{Google scholar cite}}, from which it is easy to generate {{Cite book}} templates with fields pre-filled. You can cite multiple sources for a single claim; having more sources makes a claim more reliable, and therefore less vulnerable to challenge by other editors. So by all means, cite whatever textbooks you find that support the claim. --Teratornis (talk) 02:38, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia has lots of articles that are about books. If you have a textbook which is notable, it might have an article on Wikipedia, and if so, the book would almost certainly qualify as a reliable source. That doesn't mean everything in the book is necessarily true, but it would satisfy Wikipedia's requirement as a source for any factual claims that book supports. --Teratornis (talk) 02:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

citation bullets in References section[edit]

I have been unable to figure out how to create an anchor to the citations section and format it so that so the asterisk will be interpreted as a bullet, i.e., the reference will appear with a little square in front of it rather than an asterisk, as it does in your help section and tutorials.

I have cut and pasted suggested, properly formatted references from your tutorial into the sandbox, so I am pretty sure I am not making a typing error.

Here is what I put in the sandbox: (You will need to look at the actual text I typed rather than how it is interpreted in order to see what I am talking about.)

another article Ritter2002

I may be misunderstanding you but are you looking for something like this:
  1. another article?
Zain Ebrahim (talk) 20:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, my question continues onto the section immediately below, and has since been answered. Thanks. Neuroscientist1 (talk) 22:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


  • Brown, R (2006). "Size of the Moon", Scientific American, 51(78).

* this is another citation

* Ritter, R. (2002). The Oxford Style Manual. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-860564-1

  • Ritter, R. (2002). The Oxford Style Manual. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-860564-1

The Brown reference was cut and pasted from your tutorial, as was the Ritter "cite id=" reference (including the "cite id=Ritter2002" and "/cite" parts.

I then cut and pasted the Ritter reference, without the "cite id=" formatting, as a separate reference.

When Ritter (or anything else I type) is listed without "<cite id=" and I select "show preview" it displays a little square as a bullet.

When the exact same text is used with "<cite id=", the asterisk is not interpreted as a bullet, and appears as an asterisk. In your tutorial, it shows the asterisk being interpreted as a bullet, even when used with "<cite id=".

Am I missing something?

How can I make this work? Or when we use "cite id=" is is supposed to appear with an asterisk rather than a bullet?

Neuroscientist1 (talk) 20:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)Neuroscientist1

You are doing the following:
<cite id=Ritter2002>* Ritter, R. (2002). ''The Oxford Style Manual''. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-860564-1</cite>
But you should be typing the asterick before the reference, like so:
*<cite id=Ritter2002>Ritter, R. (2002). ''The Oxford Style Manual''. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-860564-1</cite>
This renders it properly as:
  • Ritter, R. (2002). The Oxford Style Manual. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-860564-1
Ta-da! Also, it is unnecessary to type your name after ~~~~. –thedemonhog talkedits 20:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I appreciate the guidance. Neuroscientist1 (talk) 22:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD mess[edit]

I entered a tag for a proposed deletion here, but the version of TW I'm using may well be out of date (or used incompetently). While I read up on the correct way to submit articles for deletion someone may want to check the mess I've made in case it seems like vandalism. The reason for prod noted on the talk page. --Raerth (talk) 21:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Now fixed, thanks anyway :) Raerth (talk) 21:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I was just about to reply here. :) No probs. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 21:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


But no on can submit the name | jon janes | in the search box to find me ?

I myself and a few companys, find your Wikipedia seems to be full of spam messages that keep deleting accounts and pictures that are owned by the user that owns the copyright depite placing then under a free licence


please help us before our company decides your just to complicated to use

Jon janes —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jon janes (talkcontribs) 21:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The search box only searches the main article space, and not the userspace. Your article is currently at your userpage, so it will be ignored by any searches using the search box. PeterSymonds (talk) 21:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes. You seem to be a bit confused as to the purpose of Wikipedia. You probably want MySpace or Facebook. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
See WP:BFAQ. --Teratornis (talk) 02:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
The user has been indefinitely blocked, has posted a malformed unblock request request on his talk, which I have now properly formatted. – ukexpat (talk) 13:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Clearing Search (wikipedia)[edit]

How do I clear out the search box on Wikipedia so that it does not pop up with all of my previous requests? It's getting clogged with erroneous search suggestions.

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you can, to be honest. Are you using Mozilla Firefox? I think that happens automatically, but I could be wrong. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 21:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Firefox can't clear Wikipedia search functions for whatever reason. Maybe a feature Wiki could add.


The search box has two modes: in AJAX mode, Wikipedia autofills the search box as you type; in non-AJAX mode your browser remembers old entries. To change the mode, go to Special:Preferences, select Search and check or uncheck Disable AJAX suggestions. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:52, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't have an account to log into. Is it possible to change it without logging in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Should have noticed that. No- preferences are just benefit of having an account. See Wikipedia:Why create an account?. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 22:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


Hi, Ive tried to post an article several times on Luis Fernando Correa-Bahamon, one of the most important figures of real estate in today´s world. He is the World-President of FIABCI (International Real Estate Federation). Wikipedia always puts me on a special limited-time basis which lets me edit my article since the "topic" is not relevant. Im not sure what to due since ive tried in a couple of ocasions. Please tell me what are the possible reasons im getting this, and what I should due in order for it to be published. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

See Why was my article deleted?. Do you have an account? Only logged-in editors can create new articles. Did you try to edit an article in our sandbox page? The sandbox is for our many new users to practice their wikitext editing, and Wikipedia automatically clears out the sandbox at frequent intervals. If you don't want to create a new account, you can request an article, and maybe someone else will make it. I searched Special:Log for "Luis Fernando Correa-Bahamon", and it does not appear Wikipedia has ever had an article with that exact title. Neither does the Spanish Wikipedia have such an article: es:Luis Fernando Correa-Bahamon. --Teratornis (talk) 02:06, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Where are you posting this information? Anonymous users can't create articles, are you attempting to add the information into another article? Corvus cornixtalk 17:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC)