Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 August 29

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August 29[edit]

Editing reference with external link[edit]

Resolved:  – ukexpat (talk) 14:05, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I am new to this and have been trying to edit a reference with an external link on the SS Ophir page. The alteration I want to make doesn't really need an external link but I have had not success in editing it.Gubby1940 (talk) 00:52, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Can you be more specific about the problem? SS Ophir has not been edited since April and your account has no edits other than this post. Maybe Wikipedia:Footnotes is of help. Note you have to edit the section where an inline reference is linked from. All 4 references in SS Ophir are in the lead section so you can click the "edit this page" tab at the top. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:32, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I have managed to do this now, thank you. It was a small change. In Reference 3 you had that Joseph Jenkin's log and diary are at the National Library of Wales when in actual fact they are held by the State Library of Victoria. (I have been transcribing the diary). Thanks againGubby1940 (talk) 08:08, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Bruce DePalma[edit]

Resolved:  – ukexpat (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I am curious to learn why the Bruce DePalma page been deleted?

What is the stated reason/official position on this?


Dan —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

This article was deleted on 9 March 2009. See here for the discussion that resulted in the deletion of the article. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 07:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Mango disease[edit]

Resolved: Jeffrey Mall (talkcontribs) - 14:14, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

i am naveed from bahawalpur pakistan.want to ask about mango disease called quick decline or sudden death of mango plants.indications r as mango plant leaves turn dry and then fully die in 3 to 8 days .please send me detailed suggestions along with treatment protection ....thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

If you don't find an answer in the mango article, try asking at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. This Help desk is for questions about using Wikipedia. —teb728 t c 08:57, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
As teb728 says, this Help desk is for questions about using Wikipedia, but a quick search under "mango disease" found List_of_mango_diseases, which has links to many articles about particular diseases. Hope this helps, if not, then go to the Science Help Desk. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 10:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
You might want to seek professional advice though. We can't guarantee that any information you obtain here are accurate. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 10:16, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


I can't find Egypt to select on Paypal country drop down menu when I try to donate money to wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:36, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried it through the Egyptian Wikipedia? -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 11:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Mind you, a quick look (using Google Translate) didn't find a donation link, but there might still be one there somewhere - I don't read Arabic, unfortunately. Otherwise, you'll have to pay in US$ - Paypal will convert from Egyptian currency to dollars when they take the money from your card/bank. For a rough conversion of currency, try Egypt Currency Converter -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 11:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Please ignore the previous post! Paypal does not cover Egypt (in fact, the list of countries does not seem to include any of the Arabic world Approved Signup Countries. You might need to look at Ways to donate (or طرق التبرع -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 11:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
It appears PayPal does not cover Egypt. The Google search PayPal Egypt finds many places saying so and Egypt is not listed at See other options at wikimedia:Donate/WaysToGive/en. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[edit]

According to the above Wikipedia article, in the info-box it states that this movie has made a total Gross revenue of $147,103,117, however according to the reference( it's total worldwide gross is $136,933,838 (a difference of about 10 million). Am I missing something or is this info-box totally wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:43, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I have changed it in [1] to match what the source currently says. It's possible it said something different earlier. Foreign box office figures are often not tracked as well as domestic. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Also, if you see such discrepancies in the future, feel free to be bold and edit it yourself to match the figure; just make sure to explain that in the edit summary so that an overzealous recent changes patroller does not mistake it for sneaky vandalism. Tim Song (talk) 12:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
In the past I have done such things, however it has lead to a software called Huggle or HG to send me a message saying that I am the one who is vandelizing. So I just see you guys instead of doing it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Yep, that sometimes happens when you don't explain it, and I apologize for that. Our recent changes patrollers sometimes mistake a legitimate edit for sneaky vandalism. I'm a Huggle user myself, and when we see a small edit with no explanation from an IP, there's a pretty good chance that it's sneaky vandalism rather than constructive edit. That is why a brief explanation in the edit summary (e.g., "changed figure to match source") is very important. Tim Song (talk) 12:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
It is that type of attitude that annoys me with Wikipedia, quote "when we see a small edit with no explanation from an IP, there's a pretty good chance that it's sneaky vandalism rather than constructive edit" this is supposed a be an encyclopedia that anyone can edit, but when someone does edit it no one bothers to check sources and blames it on someone who is editing from an IP address when they are found to be wrong. I have enough knowledge of Wikipedia to understand how it works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Also when you say "when we see a small edit with no explanation from an IP" you are implying that everyone should know the rules of Wikipedia before knowing the facts!. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
As Tim Song said, using informative edit summaries to explain your edits is good and reduces the risk that somebody reverts the edit without investigating it carefully. Creating an account also helps and has other benefits. Experience shows that a higher percentage of IP edits than registered edits are unconstructive, and a higher percentage of edits without edit summaries are unconstructive. I understand it can be annoying but consider this: If good faith editors always used a lot of time to carefully look for sources for every unsourced IP edit with no edit summary before considering to revert it, then there wouldn't be time to examine many of the edits. This would increase the risk that constructive edits by you and others are later destroyed by vandals without it being discovered. Yes, mistakes happen, but in a work of Wikipedia's size it may sometimes be better to fix a lot of errors and make a few mistakes along the way than to fix few errors and make no mistakes. If you discover a good but unexplained edit has been reverted then you can redo the edit with an edit summary and source. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:42, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Wow, PrimeHunter says it better than I can (difference between a sysop and a newbie rollbacker?). Generally RC patrollers spend (this is my totally unsourced and subjective estimate) like 10 or 20 secs for each edit they encounter, because there are so many edits to review. Certainly there's some collateral damage, but I think that it is justified under the circumstances. I can't speak for all patrollers, but personally, if you redo an edit I just reverted with an informative edit summary, I would not revert without additional checking. Tim Song (talk) 17:20, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Judging from your talk page Tim Song you should'nt even have the right to make such decisions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:57, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Huh? Feel free to express your opinions at my editor review. All constructive criticisms are welcome. If you feel that I've misused my rollback rights, feel free to file a complaint here. Tim Song (talk) 01:02, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Help in creating articles[edit]

Resolved: Article tagged, editor assisted. Jeffrey Mall (talkcontribs) - 17:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Any way I can ask for editing help in creating an article? I can't do an article all on my own, and maybe a fellow Wikipaedian can help me out. I'm writing an article on low rock. Come see. --Nmatavka (talk) 11:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

The way we indicate something is under construction is with an under construction template. (I added one)
A better approach would be to move it to a user subpage, because it isn't yet ready (as you acknowledge) and someone with itchy fingers might still propopose it for deletion. That won't happen in a user subpage. (If you don't know how to do this let me know and I'll do it.)
Then you can ask for help either by asking specific questions here or for general feedback here --SPhilbrickT 12:41, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) To be honest, having a message at the top of the page reading "This page is a work in progress. Either help, or leave it alone." isn't a good way to encourage help! I see that SPhilbrick beat me to putting a proper template on it to show the status! If you don't think it is ready for being in the main encyclopedia, you can move it to your user space, which would make it less likely to be under threat of deletion. To do this, click on "Move" tab, and for the new title put User:Nmatavka/Low rock. As for help, probably the best places to leave a message are WikiProject Music's Talk Page or WikiProject Rock Music's Talk Page. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 12:43, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
As for specific advice, one of the first things to do is to establish Notability by showing that the term is used in a number of places, including a reliable source--SPhilbrickT 12:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm leaving a message on your talk page about some sources of information. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 13:14, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Two questions[edit]

1. I'm at a loss to explain how this happened. Could someone please enlighten me?

2. Can a user be blocked for being active but not editing the mainspace? (i.e. asking HD and RD questions, user pages, user talk pages, etc.) Xenon54 / talk / 15:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Number 1 - I don't know how that happened either - I'm looking forward to seeing the answer!
Number 2 - yes, if they are vandalising, being abusive, etc -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 15:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
1. This edit changed a normal lower case g to a ɡ in {{Infobox Writing system}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
For question 2, I've seen blocks issued to people under the general idea that they are "not here to build an encyclopedia" and/or using Wikipedia as a Facebook/Myspace replacement. TNXMan 16:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I hope the answer for number 2 is "only if they are disruptive," because most of my edits are to the RD and HD! Livewireo (talk) 14:32, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


Resolved: Jeffrey Mall (talkcontribs) - 18:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I made an edit yesterday to Justin Moore (singer), rolling back a copyvio. However, nearly 12 hours later, it still hasn't shown up even though the article correctly shows that it's removed. The servers have been really laggy lately as well. Which leads me to two questions: Why isn't that edit showing up when all my others the past week have, and why are the servers so lousy? We seem to have server issues nearly every week. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many ottersOne batOne hammer) 17:26, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

  • I added a couple of tables to an article yesterday and they didn't show up for 20 minutes, if the revert you did hasn't showed in the history even 12 hours later, I doubt it will, have you tried cleaning your browser's cache? Jeffrey Mall (talkcontribs) - 17:34, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Yes, and I've tried purging. Seriously, we've been lagged as heck all week. What's going on? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many ottersOne batOne hammer) 17:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
      • Oh, that's why it didn't show up: I just looked and the last edit made by that guy was a self-revert. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many ottersOne batOne hammer) 17:40, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
        • Yes, that would result in you making a null edit which doesn't show up in the page history. After making a null edit, you return to the article without any indication that you didn't make a registered edit. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Table, center cell only.[edit]

Resolved: TiriPon (talk) 20:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I am trying to find how to do this,I guess simple thing, which is center the content of a multiple columns table's cell.

The easy way to center is to center the content of an entire row.

I am trying to align="center" the 1st column and align="left" column 2 and 4. I can only center the entire row for now.

Is there a way to only align center column 1 and leave column 2 and 3 aligned left?

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by TiriPon (talkcontribs) 18:46, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe there is an easy way to apply a format to a column once it is here. I think you can format it in, say Excel, then import.--SPhilbrickT 19:41, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
You cannot set alignment of a column in a single place (unless you use a row template). You have to align each cell in that column. See how at Help:Table#Pipe syntax tutorial. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Res judicata prints as iudicata[edit]

The article heading Res judicata misprints the "J" as an "i". Why is this? JohnClarknew (talk) 19:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't. The article Res judicata redirect to Res iudicata--SPhilbrickT 19:40, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Also, Latin phrases use "i" in the place of "j". That may be where you got confused. TNXMan 19:42, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I have moved (retitled) the article to its overwhelming common names, where it should have never been moved from, which also solves your printing issue.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:06, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't see the latin spelling referred to in the article anyway. Your correction makes sense. Thanks. JohnClarknew (talk) 20:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, Fuhghettaboutit, why did you capitalize Judicata in the title? That doesn't match the usage in the article. And the article now begins "Res judicata or res judicata is … ," which doesn't make sense (or at least is confusing). Deor (talk) 22:33, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I moved it to the lowercase title, per MOS, and I fixed the double redirects. hmwitht 22:59, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I also fixed the lead sentence. hmwitht 23:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
The capitalization was me typing too fast. Clearly not a proper noun.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:17, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Links to commercial websites in articles (not relevant to content).[edit]

Resolved: Link removed per WP:ELNO Jeffrey Mall (talkcontribs) - 23:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

This article: “Drunk driving (United States)”


contains a link, [3], to a commercial website. It is a subscription service for avoiding DUI roadblocks. Is this acceptable Wikipedia practice?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonthaler (talkcontribs) 23:31, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Try Beta[edit]

Resolved: Jeffrey Mall (talkcontribs) - 23:53, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

If i start trying the beta version of Wikipedia, and then I don't like it, can I go back to the original version?--camr nag 23:33, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Yep, no problem. Tried it myself. Garion96 (talk) 23:36, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
You do it by clicking "Leave Beta", which will be right where "Try Beta" is currently located. hmwitht