Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 September 10

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September 10[edit]


MOST IMMEDIATE HELP REQUIRED.SwabiVal' (talk) 01:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)






E-MAIL ADDRESS: <blanked>

The file you uploaded is File:District Swabi (Overview), N-WFP, Pakistan, 2009-09-09jpg..JPG. I do not understand what you want done with it – perhaps because your use of ALL CAPS makes your post very difficult to read. You should know that using ALL CAPS is also widely regarded as rude – the equivalent of shouting. —teb728 t c 04:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
You probably want to use the photo in an article. See Wikipedia:Picture tutorial for a tutorial on how to do that. —teb728 t c 04:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Help with AfD listing[edit]

I used Twinkle to nominate an article for AfD but something seems to have gone awry. The deletion discussion is appearing in the log but the header for the discussion is not. What did I do wrong? L0b0t (talk) 03:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Not sure what the problem is with Twinkle, but the AfD log page transcludes the discussion page, so if the discussion page doesn't have the section header, it won't appear at the log page. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Seems to have fixed itself. A delay in TW maybe? Thanks. L0b0t (talk) 03:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Ah, it did not fix itself. When I said "fixed" I meant I had fixed it (with this edit).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Thank you very much, sorry I did not notice earlier. L0b0t (talk) 14:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I've done that before - when you create the AfD entry, the discussion page does not yet exist, so the entry isn't shown. When you then create the discussion page, the AfD entry will be shown. I must admit, this confused me the first few times I created an AfD, but now I create the discussion page before saving the AfD entry - then preview the AfD discussion before saving it, and hey presto - it's there! I doesn't matter whether you use Twinkle or do it manually as I do, until the discussion page has been created, nothing will show on the AfD. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 12:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

My details on wiki?[edit]

Can I add my details (about me) in wiki as a page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 08:37, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

You are very strongly discouraged from writing your own autobiography, as you will obviously be biased in the subject matter. You do have a user page, which you can use to put some basic information about yourself, but keep in mind that it is designed to facilitate communication with other editors on Wikipedia, and therefore the information you put on there should be relevant to your work on Wikipedia. I hope that helps to answer your question! — QuantumEleven 08:51, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
And before you can create either an article or user page, you have to create an account and login. —teb728 t c 10:04, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
If you are notable, then sooner or later someone will create an article about you! If you are not notable, the nearest you can get is to register an account (see Wikipedia:Why create an account? for the benefits of doing this) and then create a user page - but make sure that you read Wikipedia:User page which shows what kind of things should and should not be on a user page -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 12:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit notice[edit]

How do you add an edit notice that shows up when someone edits your user page? Professor M. Fiendish, Esq. 09:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried WP:EDN? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Links removed[edit]

I have been adding links to a not-for-profit UK based charity ( We provide information, advice and support for those in relationships. In particular dealing with issues like parenting , affairs, jealousy, sex, or having a child with disabilities. This site is completely free and is a service available to all 24/7 and provides detailed information beyond the remit of wikipedia especially because we are an evidence based research organisation (One Plus One). Our forum is also moderated by trained relationship counsellors providing invaluable support to users. Therefore we would very much like to add links to the site where appropriate (intimate relationships, parenting, divorce, separation etc). Despite the efficacy of the site links are continually removed by editors - please could someone advise me one what to do!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

External links need to add "meritable" information for the user that the article does not yet capture. Sites that provide advice and support are therefore not appropriate. But you also mention information so you should state your case at the relevant article's talk page (or a project page). Please have a look at WP:EL#ADV first. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
FWIW I think the removal of those links is appropriate per WP:ELNO - linkspam. – ukexpat (talk) 13:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Formatting for URLs[edit]

I've been having an issue finding ways to format text for URLs. The purpose of doing so is to specify a page to look up when creating links to Right now, "best practices" are to use either {{urlencode}} or {{anchorencode}}, each of which presents its own issues. Urlencode replaces special characters with their percent-encoded equivalent, except that it replaces spaces with plus signs ( requires underscores or spaces). Anchorencode, on the other hand, replaces spaces with underscores but uses a period instead of a percentage sign when percent-encoding. I view four possible alternatives, each of which I would need help with:

  • If I can use a version of MediaWiki's #replace function, I could replace the plus signs with underscores after doing urlencode
  • Have someone create a new template or something else that turns spaces into underscores and percent-encodes everything else
  • Have someone create a new template or something else that percent-encodes everything ( accepts "_", " ", or "%20")
  • If an external link could somehow accept spaces, browsers could convert to percent-encoding

Thanks for any suggestions. --Zach425 talk/contribs 10:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Update: User:Splarka suggested that I try {{FULLPAGENAMEE}}, an existing magic word that does exactly what I was looking for. This has now been incorporated into the {{}} template. --Zach425 talk/contribs 05:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Can't adjust table widths[edit]

I'm clearly doing something stupid here but I can't see it. I have an article at FLC: Gwen Stefani discography. The two tables for her singles have columns for song titles. I can't seem to fix the widths of these columns. It should be 210 pixels. Can someone help? -- EA Swyer Talk Contributions 12:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Seems to be working fine here (on FF and IE). Algebraist 12:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Article title[edit]

I need to change an article's headline, and I cannot figure out how to change it; it currently reads "National Health Information Network" and it should read "Nationwide Health Information Network."

How do I make this change?

Thank you,

Zhan Caplan 14:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)14:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zcaplan (talkcontribs)

That will require the page to be moved to the new title, but to do that your account must be autoconfirmed. I will take a look at it. – ukexpat (talk) 14:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
OK I moved it for you. I also tagged it with a couple of additional issues tags: it has no references to support notability (please see WP:CORP, WP:RS and WP:CITE) hence the references and notability tags. It also reads like a promotional press release so the tone will have to be fixed. – ukexpat (talk) 14:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Start a page[edit]

how do I start a wiki page —Preceding unsigned comment added by Legalanalyst (talkcontribs) 14:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

A Wizard is available to walk you through these steps. See the Article Wizard.
Thank you.

Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines with which all articles should comply. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.

Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.
If you still think an article is appropriate, see Wikipedia:Your first article. You might also look at Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. An Article Wizard is available to walk you through creating an article. TNXMan 15:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

rhododendron leaves[edit]

we were browsing in a flower nursery looking at rhododendrons ,but we were struck by the beauty of the leaves on this particular plant,there were gold coloured lines on the green background,of the leaf ,i thought they would look lovely in the garden ,even when the flower was not in season, on getting home we realized we hadn't got the name,it will be next year when we are in the area again can anyone help us recognize this plant,my wife loves plants but we are by no means experts.

thank you. N Pugh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The help desk is for questions regarding how to use Wikipedia but I'm sure the folks at the Reference desk would be more than happy to help you. Jeffrey Mall (talkcontribs) - 14:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Have you tried reading the Rhododendron article? -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 15:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Link needs to be renamed[edit]

This is an old name and the link should be Joint_Forces_Staff_College. The current link is being re-dircted. How do I change it. I'm the web administrator at JFSC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The article on the Joint Forces Staff College is located at To help navigation around the site if someone does a search for Armed Forces Staff College they will be redirected to the article. Be aware the article is actually located at, and the redirect is located at When you use a redirect the URL displays the redirect addresses, rather then the address of the page that you have been redirected to. Hope this helps you, if it doesn't and I'm making no sense then please just ask for clarification, SpitfireTally-ho! 15:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Nothing needs to be changed - it's working exactly as it should: Armed Forces Staff College (the old name) redirects to Joint Forces Staff College (the new name). – ukexpat (talk) 16:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
As Ukexpat says, it's working. As Spitfire says (in a roundabout way, sorry mate!) if you search for Armed Forces Staff College, it'll go to the correct article, but the address bar will show the page as Armed Forces Staff College - this is the normal behaviour for Wikipedia. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 16:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Software Code for formating LaTeX[edit]

The open source code project, Sage, seems to have a better codes for formating LaTeX. It requires users to download some font but otherwise the response will be better and the display is also better. Can I suggest wikipedia to adopt this piece of source code for LaTeX formating and display? If this is not an appropriate place to post this suggestion, can some body help to duplicate this at the right place and let me know the post location? Thank you. --Ling Kah Jai (talk) 15:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:VPR or WP:VPT would be better places. Algebraist 15:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Image upload issue[edit]

I've uploaded an image several times but it still doesn't appear. I've followed all the instructions but all I get is a big red X.

Can you help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gusdeadman (talkcontribs) 15:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


Andrew —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gusdeadman (talkcontribs) 15:47, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It displays OK for me. The image page is at File:The-ogdens-hellish-mad-rush-cd-cover.jpg. Try bypassing your cache and/or doing a server purge. More importantly, I have nominated Hellish Mad Rush for deletion as it does not appear to meet the notability criteria set out in WP:MUSIC. The deletion discussion is here. – ukexpat (talk) 16:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I get the same as the OP. I've tried bypassing, and purging, but I don't see it in IE8. It shows OK in Safari though. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 16:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Shows fine in Google Chrome.--Unionhawk Talk E-mail Review 16:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Fine in FireFox. IE has some funny problems with jpgs, IIRC. Algebraist 17:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


How do you nominate an article for deletion?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 17:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

See WP:Deletion. Algebraist 17:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I would also spend some time reading up on other articles that are nominated for deletion just to see the types of discussion that will follow after you nominate a page, they can be found at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion under current discussions. Happy editing Ottawa4ever (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Rendering bug[edit]

Is this a rendering bug? I have a list followed by a category, and some non-list plain text. The result seems to compact the plaintext onto the list. --Sigma 7 (talk) 17:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Nope. You would still need to add <br /> to make a line break.--Unionhawk Talk E-mail Review 17:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Behaviour like that should be documented. --Sigma 7 (talk) 18:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

FUNSKOOL - Lokhandwala Complex , KANDIVALI - EAST page edition required.[edit]

Resolved: User indefinite blocked by User:Orangemike for username violation and spam links

Dear Sir,

I had opened my Account earlier in Wikipedia and Posted details of My Well Known Preprimary School - FUN SKOOL situated in LOKHANDWALA COMPLEX, KANDIVALI - EAST, MUMBAI - 400101. Now I want to add our web site address link in that article. But I have forgotten my Password, and when I have asked to send new password with same user name, I didn't find any mail from wikipedia setting new password from my any of the mail inboxes. I don't know which mail address I had given.

Now I have opened new user account. I am Chairman of FUNSKOOL and want to add my web site link - <removed> in Lokhandwala - Kandivali FUN SKOOL page.

Please help me and do the needful.

With Thanks & Regds, Yogesh Joshi <blanked> - Chairman FUN SKOOL Lokhandwala Complex, Kandivali - East, MUMBAI - 400101. MYFUNSKOOL (talk) 19:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

this is a scam and the site...FUNSKOOL

This site may harm your computer.

I suggest an admin give him a warning or a block for posting this. Off2riorob (talk) 19:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

(to the original poster) Okay, several things. First of all, that website redirects to <funskoolindia · com> which is not a school; it is the website for a company which manufactures toys of the Hannah Montana/G.I. Joe variety. On casual inspection, this website does not seem to be a valuable addition to Wikipedia, entirely apart from the fact that, as Off2riorob mentions, it looks like the site may have been compromised, possibly to deliver malware.
Second, if you are the editor who added information about Funskool to the Kandivali article here, here and here, you were editing as an anonymous editor under an IP address at that time, not an account. The only way you can retrieve a lost password for an account is if you provided Wikipedia with your email address. Otherwise, there is no way to get your password back. However, you can start a new account and edit under that instead, as you seem to have found out already. You may wish to read our information on usernames however, as promotional usernames, or those which represent a company are not allowed.
It would be good if you didn't add that link to any more Wikipedia pages at this time, not only because it may cause harm to any readers who visit it, but also because it doesn't seem to relate to the organisation you state it relates to. If you have any other questions, editors at this Help Desk should be able to assist you. Good luck! --Kateshortforbob talk 21:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Incidently, here is the Google Safe Browsing diagnostic page for funskoolindia_com - Of the 267 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 2 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2009-08-24, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2009-08-20. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 14:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Listing links to redirects.[edit]

Is there a tool that will tell you if any of the wikilinks on a particular page link to redirects? The toolserver does not seem to have such a feature so I wondered if anyone else had written one. Boissière (talk) 19:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes there is, Splarka's dabfinder script. Copy the following code into your monobook.js page - go to your preferences, appearance tab and you will see a link to it in the "Skin" section:
Then clear your cache. There will then be a "find redirects" tool at the bottom of the toolbox on the left hand side of En Wikipedia pages. Click it and it will highlight redirect links on the page. Let me know if you have any problems. – ukexpat (talk) 19:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
There's also User:Dschwen/HighlightRedirects. BencherliteTalk 19:42, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I wanted that Splarka tool and added the code to my monobook, went to my preferences and appearence tab and then couldn't see the skin section? Off2riorob (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Woops, got it now, ta Off2riorob (talk) 20:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Even more comprehensive is User:Anomie/linkclassifier.js. It automatically highlights redirects and dabs, and has as slew of link colors. Don't forget the associated CSS as documented. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 22:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for all the answers. I'll give them a try. Boissière (talk) 14:21, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Clearing browser's search history[edit]

How do I delete history. Every time I type a letter it provides suggestions based on prior searches. I do not want that function.Mafmcf1 (talk) 19:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Click here: Special:Preferences, Along the top of the page you will find a tab that says "Appearance", click this, under the "Advanced options" section of the page that you come to you will find a tick box that says: "Enable "jump to" accessibility links" untick this and click "Save". You may then need to bypass your browsers cache. That's it. If something I said doesn't make sense or you need further help please don't hesitate to ask. Note that this will not stop your browser from storing the pages you visit, but it will stop the search bar from displaying them every time you type a letter in it. Furthermore this feature will only be disabled whilst you are signed on to your account, all the best SpitfireTally-ho! 19:53, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
This may also be the auto-suggest feature that fills in as you type; you can disable it by reading WP:RFAQ#SEARCH. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 22:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Anyone know?[edit]

I need to locate the bit of text under the edit box, under "Please note" that says, "Only public domain resources can be copied without permission—this does not include most web pages or images." There's a new document at Wikipedia:Copy-paste summarizing some of the major policies on this (and the FAQ) which is probably appropriate for linking there, but I need to know where to find it to pitch that proposal. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

All system messages (MediaWiki namespace) are located at the quite large Special:AllMessages. In this case the one you want is MediaWiki:Edittools. Xenon54 / talk / 20:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Deleted Links[edit]

I added links to several pages and they were all deleted by different page 'owners' or editors. They were to a non-profit film library of interviews licensed under Creative Commons. And they were, I thought, within the editorial guidelines of Wikipedia.

How do I go about getting these edits reversed? It took quite a bit of time and I think added value to the Wikipedia pages. They were video interviews with the subjects. And since they link to a non-profit, no one stands to gain. We were simply hoping to share the videos with a wider audience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcalison (talkcontribs) 20:43, 10 September 2009

For example.. [[1]] Off2riorob (talk) 20:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC) which was reverted here with no edit summary [[2]] Off2riorob (talk) 20:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

When searching for discussions on the links, I came across some talk about your edits on WP:ANI (now archived here), as well as some posts on it at WT:WPSPAM (now archived here). I also see that you were blocked for adding the links, and the reasons given on your talk page.
Given your (Mcalison's) above statement of having a conflict of interest in adding the links, I would recommend that you discuss them on the talk page of each article, and allow an established third-party editor add them if the discussion results in an agreement that the link is beneficial to the individual article. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 20:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


I'm afraid Wiki is not a crystal ball. I wish it is. isn't Wikipedian's guesses better than normal humans. Do Wikipedians have better guess than questioners usually do?-- (talk) 20:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

(You might want to read Don't abbreviate Wikipedia as Wiki.) The policy that says Wikipedia is not a crystal ball isn't going to change anytime soon. Wikipedia's purpose is not to speculate. The point of Wikipedia is to present verifiable facts that are already published in reliable sources.Xenon54 / talk / 21:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
If you want to find a wiki that speculates about the future, you could try looking on Wikiindex:. For example see Wikiindex:Future. And since Wikipedia may be around for a long time to come, we'd end up looking silly when our predictions fell flat. See Retro-futurism. --Teratornis (talk) 02:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible to have only the history of the user page deleted?[edit]

I've been trying to find out if it's possible to delete only the edit history of my User page without deleting my user page altogether or fully exercising my Right to Vanish.

I used a lot of userboxes when I was younger that shared a great deal of personal information and self-aggrandisement, stuff I'm not so comfortable with people seeing today. I've since blanked my user page, but anyone can see all the stuff I once wrote about myself in the previous revisions. I want to continue to edit on Wikipedia, and for my talk page and contributions to remain in tact, all I'm looking to do is delete any record of all those userbox-filled versions of my personal page.

What sort of request do I need to put in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reveilled (talkcontribs) 21:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, it's not possible to do what you ask. You must have the userpage completely deleted under CSD U1 to remove the history, and even then it's visible to administrators. Xenon54 / talk / 21:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Actually, all that's required is a request to a friendly administrator to delete your userpage and restore only the last edit. I'll leave a message on your talk page. BencherliteTalk 21:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Personal information that you would like removed may (or may not) be accepted as sufficient reason for a request for Oversight. If you really want this information deleted, to the point where not even administrators (who are all but anonymous) can see it, RfO is your best chance. Intelligentsium 23:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

what a good attitude![edit]

I read about the good attitude of LASE LADIMEJI hail from Ipetu Ijesa,Oriade local Govt. The establishment of CHERIECOCO HOTEL both in Lagos and his own town is commendable. I am a student and also a Civil servant hail from Ipetu -Ijesa. I WISH TO KNOW MORE ABOUT HIM AND CONTACTS. Thanks.

...Paul Abiti, <redacted> —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our roughly three million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the left hand side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. – ukexpat (talk) 21:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


hemal is very good cricketer in surat —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

That's there a question you'd like to ask? Xenon54 / talk / 22:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Your edits to Barry De Vorzon[edit]


I recently made edits to Barry DeVorzon's bio on wikipedia. A few days later, those edits were erased, and I received the following message in my Wikipedia inbox.

"Hi! You made some edits to the article about Barry De Vorzon. The text you used was copied from this website - I'm afraid that's not acceptable on Wikipedia. All material on Wikipedia is licensed by the CC-BY-SA and GFDL licenses, whilst material on other websites is almost always copyrighted to the original author, and hence re-using it on Wikipedia is a copyright violation. You can find more info about this here: Wikipedia:Copyrights#Contributors' rights and obligations.

Also, even if you hadn't copied the text wholesale, the tone of the text would still have been inappropriate for Wikipedia - we strive to write all our articles from a neutral point of view, so that means no glorification like "highly successful", "successful career", "hit song" - unless those can be clearly backed up by verifiable sources.

Please don't think I'm picking on you, I'm just trying to help you find your feet with Wikipedia, and hopefully avoid frustration from having your edits reverted by other editors! :) If anything isn't clear, or if you'd like to ask questions, please don't hesitate to leave me a message on my talk page. Welcome to Wikipedia! — QuantumEleven 12:18, 3 September 2009 (UTC)"

I am new to Wikipedia, so I apologize for not adhering to the neutral point of view standards. Using your guidelines, we will submit a new bio.

On a separate note, I made those edits at the request of Barry DeVorzon (who was sitting over my shoulder at the time of editing), because the information listed in his bio on wikipedia was incomplete, and in some instances, incorrect.

The website you referenced that the text was copied from is Barry Devorzon’s own website for his Christmas Cd. He owns the website, so there are no copyright issues. The text used is his standard bio.

I understand that this is a self-editing community that is trying to maintain a standard of accuracy and verification. However, I'm not quite sure how he can verify his own life? He is all over the internet, and his chronology of hits, awards, and motion pictures are readily available.

I will remove the non-neutral language and resubmit. I hope you'll find this next submission acceptable.

Also, could you please advise me on how to upload a single photo of Barry to his bio section? We have photo of Barry in Jpeg format. When I click the embed file icon in the tool bar, it inserts the following: "File:Example.jpg" I am not a programmer, so I don't know what to do with this.

Any direct help links you could point me to would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Ari —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbarie (talkcontribs) 23:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ari, and thanks for asking about how to submit material that will be kept - it's a common question! The only point I'll make at the moment (I'm about to go off-line) is that even though you are using text from Mr De Vorzon's own website (which I couldn't actually find - could you provide a link here?), that website would be most likely be under copyright to Mr De Vorzon (or the owners of the website) - unless it specifically gives permission that is compatible with Wikipedia's usage (i.e. CC-BY-SA and the GFDL) then we can't use it without explicit permission. You (and Mr De Vorzon) may want to look at WP:IOWN which explains how this can be done. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 23:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Another thing for you to read is WP:COI: Many people think that someone with a close connection to the subject should not be writing about the subject at all. They feel that you should only make content suggestions on the article talk page and let other editors decide whether to implement them.
In any case you are certainly welcome to upload a photo. Go to Commons:Special:Upload. Use a descriptive filename, and license it under a free license (one that allows anyone to reuse it for anything); I recommend the {{CC-by-sa-3.0}} license. When you go to use the photo, you replace Example.jpg with the name of the photo you uploaded. There is an image tutorial at WP:Image tutorial.
Just for my curiousity, how does he spell his last name? I notice that you spelled it three different ways. —teb728 t c 00:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

References to for-sale sources[edit]

Now and then I run into a citation (or whole group of citations) to articles that ARE FOR SALE. I've searched WP and have been unable to find ANY help or ideas addressing such citations.


I find for-pay citations to be next to worthless;

  • I can't verify whether the information is part of the source cited ... nor read it for further details.
  • These citations tend to discourage further citation to not-for-pay sources.
  • It does not seem appropriate (except as a last resort) for a publicly-edited, free resource to be promoting privately-held, for-sale resources.
  • What is WP POLICY on the inclusion of references to for-pay articles/journals?
  • Is there a template or markup to request not-for-pay references?

If you can point me to policy pages or internal discussions, I'd be grateful! Twang (talk) 23:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

We at Wikipedia do not promote "privately-held, for-sale resources". However, it is a Wikipedia policy that all sources must be verifiable, and therefore many sources are books or periodicals. It is because these articles are "for sale" that they are reliable (i.e., the writers make their living from these, so they have to be correct). If you require further information about references, feel free to peruse WP:RS, WP:CITE, and WP:V. Intelligentsium 00:05, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
It sounds like he is talking about the paid archives accessible through Google news not books or newspapers in a store. Is it OK to link to those for verification of an inline citation?Cptnono (talk) 00:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Follow-up. I don't know the answer to this but I am going to give you my experience. Highbeam sucks since the summary in the search response is full of "..." and what their preview is too short. You might get lucky with the one that archives the LA Times. I actually used one today as a last resort. I assume worst comes to worst you can rely on WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT:
If your source is not findable online, it should be findable in reputable libraries, archives, or collections. If a citation without an external link is challenged as unfindable, any of the following is sufficient to show the material to be reasonably findable (though not necessarily reliable): providing an ISBN or OCLC number; linking to an established Wikipedia article about the source (the work, its author, or its publisher); or directly quoting the material on the talk page, briefly and in context.
I would be shocked if the LA Times was not archived at Richard Riordan Central Library or one of the universities.
I have also seen an admin request emailed copies of newspaper articles for verification but I don't know if that is common or cool.Cptnono (talk) 00:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I always say, just reference the original print publication; don't bother with a link to a paysite. There is no requirement that any citation to a print source be accompanied by a link to an online reproduction of said source. --Orange Mike | Talk 00:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)