Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 August 11

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August 11[edit]

Co-ordinates in article[edit]

Hi guys, can anyone help me to fix a little problem on an article? I just added co-ordinates and they've come out messy. The article can be found here Liverpool gay quarter and I wanted them to look like the co-ordinates on this article Canal Street (Manchester) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks User:Richie wright1980

  • DONE. I have changed the article and used the following markup text, in the top infobox, to invoke Template:Coord to show the latitude and longitude. Inside the infobox:
coordinates = {{coord|53|24|26|N|2|59|13|W |type:landmark |display=inline}}
Those parameters are similar to how the coordinates were set in article "Canal Street (Manchester)" but with parameter "display=inline". I shortened the numbers for seconds of latitude and longitude, as rounded to just "26" and "13" because that is enough precision to locate a city section. Formerly, the numbers were "{{coor dms|53|24 |26.0721016866745 |N|2|59 |13.081083297729492 |W|...}}" with 13-decimal precision, which is typical when trying to pinpoint a GPS signal location. Thanks for the question, because this is an issue that causes many people trouble, as evidenced by how long it took to answer your request, and update the article page. Those long GPS numbers (such as "26.0721016866745") can be confusing, so I hope this answer will help reduce similar problems. -Wikid77 23:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Links can not be displayed in IE8[edit]

IE8 cannot display the links of a web page which are displayed in IE7.If we put the compatibility view of IE8 those can be displayed. Can you please provide the difference between IE7 and IE8 in code perspective? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Which page? - David Biddulph (talk) 07:25, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
If you are talking about a Wikipedia page, that is an issue that needs to be discussed at Wikipedia:Village pump/Technical. If you are asking about a page which isn't in Wikipedia, then the best place is our computing reference desk. --ColinFine (talk) 07:29, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

External link problem[edit]

I posted one link recently here at but now it is removed by Wikipedia what would be the reason. link was to this website with title Happy Easter, kindly suggest me how to link this site to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:08, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia's guideline for determining which external links belong in an article is at Wikipedia:External links. The criteria are deliberately strict – Wikipedia is not Google, and the number of links in Wikipedia's See also sections should be kept to a minimum. I see no reason to believe the site you've linked above is reliable, nor that it contains information not already present in the Wikipedia article. So it does not belong in Wikipedia. I've removed the similar link you added to Mother's Day for the same reasons. Adrian J. Hunter(talkcontribs) 08:38, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

MediaWiki 1.17wmf1[edit]

What is the difference between MediaWiki 1.17 and MediaWiki 1.17wmf1? Marthelati (talk) 10:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC) And how do I download it? Marthelati (talk) 10:18, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

MediaWiki 1.17 is a public release. It is available for download here, and it is the version you should use if you are setting up your own wiki.
1.17wmf1 is a Wikimedia "mod" version of 1.17, including some of the changes that will be released to the public in 1.18. It is very difficult to download, and it is not advisable to try to do so. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 11:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect spelling[edit]

Hi guys My name is Jandamarra O'Shane and i have noticed that the spelling of my first name is incorrect, how ever my name was spelt like that in the media due to my farther trying to change it himself. The truth is its spelt the same way as the great man i was named after from the Bunuba clan in Western Australia.

I would really like for you's to change it please...  :D :)— Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Currently, 4 of the available references on the page say the name is Tjandamurra. Only 2 of the references say the name is Jandamarra. We cannot take your word for it that you are O'Shane. If you can provide multiple reliable sources to prove that the name is Jandamarra, I'm sure there could be a discussion. Otherwise, is there a way to contact the Wikimedia foundation, prove your identity, and have them change it? Maybe another editor patrolling the help desk can help with that. Ryan Vesey Review me! 13:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
See WP:BIOSELF. – ukexpat (talk) 13:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Reference does not format correctly[edit]


In the article Napkin ring problem in the first reference, how can I force the second {{WebCite}} to wrap and indent correctly? I already tried stuff like nowrap and break tags but nothing seems to work as desired. Inserting characters such as the word "and" between the two WebCite templates also doesn't work, as this produces a leading space, forcing a dotted box to appear (as always is the case when a line has leading spaces). Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 13:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Done? I think it's best to list just one thing in each {{citation}}, and neater to use the "archiveurl" parameter within that template, rather than the separate {{webcite}}?  Chzz  ►  14:07, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
(e/c) I think it's a bug/feature of the template. It may be a better idea to use the {{Cite web}} template with the |archiveurl= parameter. In fact the {{Citation}} templates should be changed to {{Cite book}} and {{Cite web}} as appropriate. – ukexpat (talk) 14:09, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Does the trick. Thanks to both of you. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 14:12, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Who did the edit?[edit]

I was doing a minor edit to the 2011 England riots page (adding a 'the'). I had to make a number of attempts due to edit conflicts. About this time my username was credited with an edit (Revision as of 13:19, 11 August 2011) I did not make. Has my account been hacked or is this a wiki problem? Rsloch (talk) 13:58, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Prior to your edit, another editor had just removed the word thugs, it looks like you accidentally undid it without an edit summary. Ryan Vesey Review me! 14:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) (Referring to this edit.) I think it's exceedingly unlikely that someone hacked your account, only to make a small edit to a page at the same time you were trying to edit it yourself. I think Ryan's explanation is the most likely, though it might also have been a little Wikipedia glitch – that article is probably working the servers really hard right now. Adrian J. Hunter(talkcontribs) 14:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you. Rsloch (talk) 15:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


How do I do to get the messege in an article to say that: This article was translated from a swedish article? (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

You can add {{translated page|se|source page title}} to the talk page, which should give you what you want. "Source page title" is the name of the article on the Swedish Wikipedia. TNXMan 14:38, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict × 2) For the documentation see Template:Translated page. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 14:43, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

fixing page discussion for past[edit]

Please you help fixing for past for discussion. Other page examples -- (talk) 14:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done  Chzz  ►  16:30, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Word Listing...[edit]


I am not the best at typing but I would like to get the word floremus on to wikipedia and have a story to tell related to it.

Thank you in advance, great site

David — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daaker (talkcontribs) 15:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Please take a look at WP:DICDEF. – ukexpat (talk) 16:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
But if it's not on Wiktionary, that'd be the perfect place for it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:54, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Editing a protected page[edit]

I'm trying to edit a protected page. I made an update in the Discussion, but no administrator is responding. What do I do next? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:34, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Be patient? We are all volunteers. – ukexpat (talk) 16:03, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Which page? The IP address you posted with here has no discussion edits. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:32, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Expanding article[edit]

I am currently trying to get S&Man to Good Article status at User:Joe Chill/Sandbox. It has a long way to go, but I need some Good Articles that are good to use as references for this article. If I need some suggestions, who is a Good Article contributor that you think that I should ask? Joe Chill (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, I am a Good Article reviewer and I can look over it for you if you would like. As for a contributor who actually writes good articles, there are many, I really can't suggest one individual. I would suggest that you look at the Theatre, film, and drama good articles for some help.  JoeGazz  ♂  13:00, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

How to remove the "This page is a new unreviewed article" tempelate from an article that I have reviewed ?[edit]

Hi guys, have recently reviewed an article of an esteemed senior colleague.

I am wondering how do I remove the "This page is a new unreviewed article" template ?

Thanks Arun Arun1951 (talk) 16:08, 11 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun1951 (talkcontribs) 16:06, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

You don't at the moment, because it needs to be cleaned up - it's too promotional/unencyclopedic in tone; the references and external links are not properly formatted, and it has no categories. Still much work to do. – ukexpat (talk) 16:18, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Additionally, if they are your colleague then you have a clear conflict of interest and shouldn't be editing the article. You should instead make requests for changes on the talk page for the article. Dismas|(talk) 18:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

List of all Bot's UserIDs[edit]

Does anyone know how to produce a list (xml file for example) of all the Bots on Wikipedia (active or not) containing their UserIDs that do NOT have a bot-Flag yet? Are there many active Bots without a bot-flag anyway --Fabian Flöck (talk) 16:32, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

It may be possible that WP:BRfA (which is a shortcut to Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval) is what you are looking for. Also, bots MUST be approved, otherwise ones running without being approved first are blocked. (the exception to this is when a trial for a bot is requested. But only the bot requested to have a trial done may do so) There are no approved bots that do not have a bot flag yet, basically. (if I sounded mean or rude, I am sorry. I do not try to sound that way) LikeLakers2 (talk) 18:28, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Where are yesterday's pageview stats?[edit]


Why aren't yesterday's pageview stats working?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:21, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia policies on first-person[edit]

Is there any relevant Wikipedia policy on the use words like "you" in articles. I've seen this articles before and I always remove because it does not feel encyclopedic. Is there a proper policy I can reference? I am not talking about WP:NPOV --Melab±1 18:24, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

MOS:YOU states "Do not use the second person (you, your); it is often ambiguous and contrary to the tone of an encyclopedia (see also Instructional and presumptuous language, below)" Ryan Vesey Review me! 18:28, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Report users?[edit]

Hello, is there any list (like WP:AIV) to report users who remove speedy deletion templates from new articles? I was asking because I do not report the user to AIV, because it's only for vandalism. Thanks -- Luke (Talk) 18:34, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

WP:ANI maybe? But I have reported at WP:AIV without a problem. – ukexpat (talk) 20:43, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Ah ok, I wasn't sure where to report it because I've always used the AIV for vandalism only. -- Luke (Talk) 20:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
However, the rules on removing PROD templates are in favour of the remover. The template invites people to remove the message "if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason." With such an open invitation, anyone can "object"; whilst WP:DEPROD encourages, but does not require, an edit summary to explain why.
Furthermore, WP:DEPROD precludes the reinstatement of a PROD tag "even if the tag was apparently removed in bad faith."
Arjayay (talk) 12:55, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
However, if people remove the "db" series of templates that they create, they should be warned with {{uw-speedy1}} and successive templates; once you get up to uw-speedy4 and they keep doing it, then you report them to AIV. Nyttend (talk) 22:55, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
SDPatrolBot reports to AIV after giving final warnings, and I've had to do it a few times. That's usually the best place to take it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:56, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

a permalink to present version template?[edit]

Hi. I was wondering if there was a template that I could use on talk pages to provide a permenent link to the current version of the article page. It would be very useful to be able to do something like {{atthemoment}} and have a link to the article page automatically inserted, to make it easier for other editors to see what I'm talking about once the page changes. Any info would be appreciated, Thanks! --Keithonearth (talk) 18:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if there is a template and I may do some research later to see if I can make one. Are you aware of the fact that you can look at the page history, click on the most current revision, and copy the link? Here is a link to the help desk as it appeared when you asked your question. Ryan Vesey Review me! 18:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) :You can use a permanent link (see Help:Permanent link). You can easily link to an old revision via a permanent link by using Template:Oldid. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 18:42, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! I am aware of the ability to look at a page history --> click on its most current revision --> copy URL --> paste in talk page as a link. That's what I have been doing when I can be bothered, but I was hoping for an easier way. Seems a useful thing to have. Thanks for your input too Toshio, but that doesn't look quite like what I'm after either, as it doesn't fit the quick and easy criteria. If this doesn't exist would there be a better place for me to request it? I'm not sure where I'd even start to make a template like that, I imagine some PHP skills would be needed. --Keithonearth (talk) 19:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Does Template:Freeze help?--SPhilbrickT 20:03, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Template:Freeze can only link to the page it is placed on. bugzilla:6092 is an existing request for the functionality needed by the requested template. It was implemented in rev:49575 but reverted in rev:51424 with the comment "Reverted r49575, {{revisionid:...}} due to unresolved CR comments and the general cache-breaking insanity of the concept." PrimeHunter (talk) 21:21, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the info, didn't know that. Now I understand why it didn't catch on :) --SPhilbrickT 21:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I didn't read Template:Freeze properly. I falsely assumed it would be using the magic word {{REVISIONID}} which only works for the page it is placed on. Template:Freeze cannot link directly to a revision but it can link to a history page for another page with only the revision at the time. I would recommend the normal manual url copy method in nearly all situations. It may take slightly longer for the poster but it saves work for readers and the servers, and many readers would probably be confused by seeing a history page. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:13, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Possible redirect would have two equally valid targets[edit]

Resolved: Thank you Ryan. Two soft redirects with two targets respectively created. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

What to do, if a redirect has two equally valid target articles? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:03, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Flip a coin. In reality, would it be appropriate to leave two {{soft redirect}}s on the page? Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:07, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
A disambiguation page of sorts would probably be appropriate. What is the specific redirect and two articles you are talking about. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:09, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
The two redirects in question are Gogeta and Vegito. For either of these redirects, both Son Goku (Dragon Ball) and Vegeta are equally valid targets. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:14, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
The redirects are related to special abilities of these two characters. This special ability is related to both of these two characters in the same way, thus each of the two articles is as valid a target for the redirect as the other one. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:21, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it possible to create something like a splitted redirect? Technically it is, as I could simply create something like a disambiguation page, only that there is no ambiguity in this case. I don't know if there are rules for creating something like that. Does anybody know Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:29, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the rules are, that is what my soft redirect idea would have done. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:30, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Facepalm I didn't consider that a page can have two soft redirects. Thanks Ryan. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:36, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
And thanks for the improvement to the wording of the two redirects. Face-smile.svg Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:55, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
No problem. Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:58, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
That's not what soft redirects are for. You should pick a target. As described in WP:TARGET you can use {{Anchor}} to link directly to the paragraph where the terms are explained. I don't know the Dragon Ball universe and cannot say which article is best, but I noticed Son Goku (Dragon Ball) says "the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball franchise", so that would be my guess. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:36, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
That might not be common usage of a soft redirect, however WP:SRD is a guideline, not a policy and Template:Subcat guideline says "it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply". In compliance with WP:IAR I think this is such an exception, as both target articles contain information about this character and I see no problem giving the reader the choice to switch to either of these articles to find the intended information. After all, I don't see any particular drawbacks in using the soft redirect this way in this special case. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 22:15, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the two target sections have almost word for word the same description of Gogeta and Vegito. I don't see justification for creating a whole new type of mainspace page. If you still support them then I will list them at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion with a suggestion to make normal redirects to Son Goku (Dragon Ball)#Abilities. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I still support these two pages, as the information is appropriate in both articles and in my opinion not enough to create a new article for Gogeta or Vegito and I still think WP:IAR applies. Given these opposing standpoints I agree it would be the best option to list the redirects at WP:RFD in order to reach a consensus. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 00:00, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
I have nominated them at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 August 12#Gogeta. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:45, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Switch hitter's[edit]

Can a switch hitter switch sides of the plate in the middle of an at bat? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:35, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

A batter can switch before every pitch if he wants to. Carptrash (talk) 22:44, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I was here recently[edit]

and someone suggested that I start an article here. User:Carptrash/Territorial architecture. It was probably a good suggestion, but after a brief beginning I went back to writing articles my old way. Now I want to get rid of the article linked above. Can you do it? Thanks, Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 22:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

You can either blank the page, or put {{db-user}} at the top - either way it will be deleted: see WP:UP#DELETE. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:42, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I will probably do it all. Thanks, A Carptrash (talk) 22:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)